Mexican Cars in Prison

[Apathetic]

So I know Mexicans group up based on what county they're from, but I have a question about MS-13, 18 Street and Maravilla gangs. Do each of these separate gangs have their own "car" in prison or do they group up based on their geographical location as well?

[silentwssj]

They are all Surenos and all Surenos stick together in prison!

[Apathetic]

Yes, I realize all Sureños stick together in prison, but aren't there certain cars? Like, there are certain reps that call the shots for their car or is that only for the whites? I sort of understood that it was the llaveros/meseros that ran the yard for the Sureños, but each county has its own ranfla. Like there's the San Diego Sureños, LA Sureños, etc. They're all divided into certain "cars" based on the county they're from. I was wondering if 18 St, MS 13 and Maravilla had their own "cars." But yes, I do realize all Sureños run together in prison.

[silentwssj]

Maravillas actually have been independent of surenos for most of their existence. They traditionally refused to take orders from the EME and pay taxes. This led to them being green lighted. I am a Norteno so I can't speak authoritatively on Sureno politics. I do have life experiences to draw from though. The Homies from Salinas go to reception in Delano instead of San Quentin. They told me that they have a separate building for Nortenos and Maravillas over there. Yes they mix as they are both against Surenos. According to law enforcement books, Maravillas are no longer "green lighted", I would assume this means they are programing with Surenos now! Maravillas have many clicks though, so I am pretty sure not all of them have surrendered to the EME. Those that don't would be segregated. I have questioned Crips about LA county and they told me about a Maravillas gang member that was put on bunk status.meaning he was not allowed to program. This was a long time ago though. In prison all groups fall under one leadership depending on who they run with. It does not matter what county you are from if you are a Norteno or a sureno you will back up the whole car period. Of course there will be people from various counties and they may naturally gravitate towards one another but set tripping is generally forbidden in prison. Amongst my people, if you set trip you will be removed. No exceptions! I have heard a story from one of my people who was in Susanville. He said 18th st got off with Hazard on the yard. That is the only time I have ever heard of such a thing happening. In my personal experiences Surenos just back each other up if regardless of what county they are from.

[bumperjack]

Apathetic, Silent explained it "well" Surenos are Surenos they dont run in different cars like the woods do...Nortenos are Nortenos same goes for them they dont seperate by Neighborhoods nor Countys....it's pretty simple to understand,far as Whites go you got alot of County Cars,that's how they congregate Mexicans in prisons do not run the same as Whites.

[Apathetic]

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

[Apathetic]

The Mexicans run in prison with the Mesa, then there's the piseros, bloqueros, esquineros and tier reps, correct? But I was wondering, do the Mesas work for one Carnal exclusively, or the Eme as a whole? It's come to my understanding that sometimes there are different Meseros that are deployed by different Carnales on one Mesa. But I guess it might vary from prison to prison, where one Carnal controls an entire Mesa or a Mesa operates for a collective group of Carnales. Can anybody clarify this?

[silentwssj]

Hey there Apathetic! I can tell you that you reading way to much into this! Your questions are definitely not simple in nature and you are asking things that can only be answered by members of the EME or NF! These two groups while similar are run separately! They have some titles and positions that may seem interchangeable and similar to both groups. You are referring to the Mesa system established by the EME and Surenos. You will need to ask a Sureno for their input on that one. My understanding of it is that was put into place to stop the confusion of having multiple Carnales giving orders to one prison. To look at it another way, imagine if you had 5 Brothers all giving orders to the same people in the same prison. That could cause a lot of conflicting interests and orders right! Once again, you are talking about a system that was implemented for Surenos though. I have heard of a Mesa for the NF but it is completely different in nature. I will not even get into details of that as it is basically an off limits subject! I will say this though, in my personal experience what usually happens in prison is one person is in charge. You may have multiple people from the same prison gang there. They may all have input and hold power to some degree. They will probably all communicate amongst each other when making a major decision. Only one has the "Llaves" or keys though! Bottom line though is that the highest ranking person present will call the shots! The way that Surenos describe a Llavero in "The Mexican Mafia Encyclopedia" is different to how Nortenos understand it! My advice is don't get to wrapped up in trying to understand all these different positions and titles. Power in prison is delegated to other individuals for minor things. There are a lot of titles that you have thrown out there. Just know this, all those people are doing is controlling there area of the prison and reporting to someone higher up. They have no real power! Everything gets run through the proper people or person. For example I may be a Norteno with the "Llaves" to a certain prison yard. That does not mean that I can do what I want though. It means I am in charge to a certain degree and very limited at that only for that yard. There is going to be someone with the "Llaves" to the whole prison and he will be truly in charge. To give an example of this I will give two different scenarios. 1. Lets say a Homeboy comes to the yard. Proper procedure is to read his paperwork. Lets say you find out he is a rat when you read his paperwork. You as the key holder to the yard can have him removed. You should not have to seek permission from anyone higher up to do this. I could even attempt to take his life by having him hit with weaponry. 2. a different example is lets say a homie hits the yard and people are saying that this dude is a rat but there is no paperwork to back it up. The person who holds the keys to the yard may try to ask his higher up for guidance and advice on what to do. This means having an open line of communication to the "hole" though. That is not something that is always available. Usually there are inmates that access the "hole" as porters and they can pass information in and out. If this is not possible the only other way is to send someone in there. In prison yards are physically separated from each other. Mail is read so going that route is not good. All prisons use the same hole though. All the validated prison gang members are there as well because they are not allowed to be on the mainline. The "Hole" is in effect the headquarters for all gang business. Back to the scenario! If enough people are calling this person a rat, I could have someone beat his ass and thus send him to the hole. Once there, the real shotcaller or person with the Llaves to the whole prison not just a specific yard can question the individual and pass judgment on him there. I as a Key holder to the yard would not actually have him hit with weaponry and try to kill him though. I could do that for the individual in the first scenario but not the second. I think that your real question is does one or multiple Carnales control the Mesa. Well my answer and I am not a Sureno, so its a guess. Why have a Mesa if only one Carnal is calling the shots? If only one is passing down orders then there would be no need to have a Mesa! Its only when you have many hands dipping into the same cookie jar that you need to have a system in place like this. In my honest opinion and experience there is usually one person who is in charge! I think a Mesa system is designed to cut through the confusion and conflicting orders from various higher ups. The EME has equality amongst the Brothers and the NF does not! In the NF some are higher ranking than others so this is not a problem. Once again you are asking questions that go way beyond the realm of your average gangbanger though. This question is one that is posed with a view from the top down. I seriously doubt anyone with the knowledge that you are asking for will answer you on this forum! Lol! nice try though Apathetic! My advice is don't get all wrapped in this! Most people don't understand the whole big picture. They are assigned different roles and that is all they know. In reality there is one person or a few that actually run everything. They wouldn't have multiple mesa's because they would conflict with each other. There would only be one mesa in place to hash out the various orders coming from the different Brothers!

[Apathetic]

Thanks for an honest reply, Silent. I guess it's true that some information is too sensitive for the public to know about. Your post was still very informative and interesting to read.

[silentwssj]

One last thing that I want to add is that the way a Llavero is described in the "Mexican Mafia encyclopedia" is someone who collects money from a street operation for a Carnal. This may be true for the "EME" and Surenos. For us the term "Llavero" is not an actual title. We would refer to somebody as having the "Keys" but that is not his title! It is a reference to his having power and authority. They may use that as an actual title or position but we do not! Where are you from Apathetic? From your profile it sounds like you are from Israel. If that is true why don't you give me a crash course on gangs over there that would be interesting! Silent!

[MMRbkaRudog]

Yeah I cannot recall ever hearing about sureños breaking down into cars either, but I'm sure a lot of times they are mainly kicking it with people from their area. Even though they pretty much are all together, I have heard about them having more of a problem being united than the norteños. Silent brought up a situation and even though I'm hearing "northern south siders" are being accepted amongst sureños, I have heard they still aren't as accepted and or are just being used if accepted. Some times you hear of so called sureños even ending up with someone else, like the border brothers and I would think that was probably more common with the "northern sureños" or "paisas" who claim sur on the street.

[Apathetic]

One last thing that I want to add is that the way a Llavero is described in the "Mexican Mafia encyclopedia" is someone who collects money from a street operation for a Carnal. This may be true for the "EME" and Surenos. For us the term "Llavero" is not an actual title. We would refer to somebody as having the "Keys" but that is not his title! It is a reference to his having power and authority. They may use that as an actual title or position but we do not! Where are you from Apathetic? From your profile it sounds like you are from Israel. If that is true why don't you give me a crash course on gangs over there that would be interesting! Silent!

Street gangs in Israel are mostly composed of Ex-Soviet or Ethiopian youth that actually represent a gang with a name but it's rare, most of the 'gangs' are mostly group of youngsters from poverty stricken places who stand up and represent their neighborhoods against rival groups from different neighborhoods and cities, it's mostly just fist-fights but from personal experience it can go as far as gun fights and murder, I was a part of something you can call a gang as a kid which I left before joining the military, we had a beef with a rival group from a nearby city that ended up in the death of one of them, these groups are mostly made up from Mizrahi Jews (3rd generation from Arab countries, Moroccan myself).

Organized crime in Israel is a much bigger problem especially lately as the OC war took its toll on many innocent civilians, in my area it's mainly Kavkaz mafia against local Moroccan organization for prostitution and extortion territory, they send assassins on scooters and blow up each other's cars.

[silentwssj]

Wow! Right on for the info Apathetic. I am always curious as to how other people in other countries do it. I would have honestly thought that you were going to say that Jewish gangs fight Muslim gangs. The answer that you gave is not what I suspected. Do Those groups have gangs that fight each other as well or are they mainly separated? Every time I turn on the TV all I see is Palestinians throwing rocks at Israelies. Is this only aimed at the police and military. Do regular everyday Jews get off on Muslims? How do you guys feel about ISIS being right next door to you? I know that Israel is more than capable of militarily taking them out. I would still think that the situation would make people nervous though. Another question is are you a Moroccan Jewish person? How is life for your people in Morocco compared to Israel? I have read numerous books on Islam. The feeling that I get is that Muslims will tolerate people of other faiths but it is pretty hostile. In the old days non Muslims were called"Dimmies " and had to pay a tax the " jizya". I know that Morocco is a modern nation and this isn't happening today. I am curious though about your feelings on this. It seems that most Muslim nations are becoming more extreme lately and the fundamentalist would love to re-emplement Sharia law. If they did then all non Muslims would again find themselves in this situation. What are your thoughts on all of this being that you come from Morocco? Peace out Silent!

[silentwssj]

Wow! Right on for the info Apathetic. I am always curious as to how other people in other countries do it. I would have honestly thought that you were going to say that Jewish gangs fight Muslim gangs. The answer that you gave is not what I suspected. Do Those groups have gangs that fight each other as well or are they mainly separated? Every time I turn on the TV all I see is Palestinians throwing rocks at Israelies. Is this only aimed at the police and military. Do regular everyday Jews get off on Muslims? How do you guys feel about ISIS being right next door to you? I know that Israel is more than capable of militarily taking them out. I would still think that the situation would make people nervous though. Another question is are you a Moroccan Jewish person? How is life for your people in Morocco compared to Israel? I have read numerous books on Islam. The feeling that I get is that Muslims will tolerate people of other faiths but it is pretty hostile. In the old days non Muslims were called"Dimmies " and had to pay a tax the " jizya". I know that Morocco is a modern nation and this isn't happening today. I am curious though about your feelings on this. It seems that most Muslim nations are becoming more extreme lately and the fundamentalist would love to re-emplement Sharia law. If they did then all non Muslims would again find themselves in this situation. What are your thoughts on all of this being that you come from Morocco? Peace out Silent!

[Apathetic]

Wow! Right on for the info Apathetic. I am always curious as to how other people in other countries do it. I would have honestly thought that you were going to say that Jewish gangs fight Muslim gangs. The answer that you gave is not what I suspected. Do Those groups have gangs that fight each other as well or are they mainly separated? Every time I turn on the TV all I see is Palestinians throwing rocks at Israelies. Is this only aimed at the police and military. Do regular everyday Jews get off on Muslims? How do you guys feel about ISIS being right next door to you? I know that Israel is more than capable of militarily taking them out. I would still think that the situation would make people nervous though. Another question is are you a Moroccan Jewish person? How is life for your people in Morocco compared to Israel? I have read numerous books on Islam. The feeling that I get is that Muslims will tolerate people of other faiths but it is pretty hostile. In the old days non Muslims were called"Dimmies " and had to pay a tax the " jizya". I know that Morocco is a modern nation and this isn't happening today. I am curious though about your feelings on this. It seems that most Muslim nations are becoming more extreme lately and the fundamentalist would love to re-emplement Sharia law. If they did then all non Muslims would again find themselves in this situation. What are your thoughts on all of this being that you come from Morocco? Peace out Silent!

Let's organize this to points lol.
1. Arabs and Bedouins have their own underworld that generally don't mix with the Jewish one with some exceptions of co-operation when it comes to smuggling drugs, guns and cars.
2. Rock-throwing was once only aimed at the police and military but in recent years it victimizes Jewish civilians aswell and in my opinion should be treated as a terrorist attack, rocks can kill you!
3. What do you mean 'get off on Muslims'?
4. ISIS isn't relevant as a threat to us at the moment even though they participated in the last war in Gaza, I know because I participated in that specific battle where ISIS was involved, other than that its a matter of military intelligence.
5. I think I put it wrong, my grandparents came to Israel from Morocco in the 1950s, they say it was great and that Morocco and its king was always kind and respectful to Jews but it was still better off in Israel even though they left a lot of worthy possessions there. Funny story, my grandfather was forced to come to Israel at the age of 15 because he was caught having an affair with a 30 years old married French lady named Jacqluine!
6. Islam countries implementing fundemental laws are none of our concern, Jews are no longer under the hand of foreign regiments and have their respectful means to defend themselves i.e the IDF.

[silentwssj]

Right on Apathetic! What you said about sums up what I figured. What I meant by get off on them was to fight them. That's how we talk over here, Lol! Wow so you fought ISIS in Gaza! Crazy! I can't stand them. Personally I wish we would go over there and slaughter them. The American public is getting tired of endless wars though. I think it will happen once Obama leaves office though. Anyways, it time to watch the Warriors game! Peaceout , Silent!

[judastaugamma]

in cali, back in my days.

norte

sur

paisa/border brothers

bulldogs

[judastaugamma]

not all sur/norte are gang members btw. civilian/tagger/stoner latinos usually down with norte/sur if they don't ride paisa.

depends where they grew up/who they know or related too.

bulldogs is a fresno thing. 14 dropouts.

maravilla, 18th, mara salvatruchas run 13 in the pen no matter what some might claim on the streets.

[bumperjack]

@Judastaugamma..."Mexican cars in prison" Nor/Sur are all "gang members" if they claim one are the other "Car"and all follow there prison politics that have been in place for many years...If you belong to any Mexican car in prison basically you are considered a gang member participation Is required when you choose to be apart of any car period. Don't know were you been Judastaugamma but claiming "Norteno or Sureno" in prison makes you apart of the whole car, and therefore makes you a member of that group or gang my friend. In most cases it depends on were you are from but not in all situations. Who you know doesn't have any bearing on who you decide to ride with once you enter prison. With Respect BJ

[judastaugamma]

car is who you ride/roll with.

dont mean you're a gang member.

you dont have to be a gang member.

not everyone in prison is from a gang. some of the downest dudes in there weren't from a gang.

some of the biggest bitches were.

[bumperjack]

Believe me I know what a car is I done 20 years in 13 prison and was a gang member for 38 years...this thread is about Mexican cars...If you claim your a "Sureno" Thats a street gang then once you earn that status your a gang member same goes with the "Nortenos"...you can roll with a car in prison and not pursue that on the streets and change your life...If you roll with one of them cars you will be labeled by prison officials...I understand what your saying but in them cars the reality is if you ride in a car a Mexican Car then your a Soldier... You said in your statement if you ride with the Sur/ Nor your not a gang member...are not all of them are gang members...and to enemy soldiers of the other gang they consider you a threat and that makes you a target and a member so in prison officials and in the eyes of the adversary your a rider,gang member of that car...If you ride in them cars my friend,whether your labeled or validated your are a gang member...I believe there are down dudes you know that were'nt gang members not everybody in prison rides in a car...Your Classified by your action and car you ride in period. It strictly depends on what car you're referring about here we are conversing on "Northeners and Southerners" so your statement in these 2 cars are incorrect dude...what prisons have you been to ? Or is your information from other sources? I'm pretty sure your information is not first hand or that statement you wouldn't have made. Because whoever told you that is incorrect.with Respect BJ

[bumperjack]

FYI...Judastaugammar...3 of these cars you mention Nortenos, Surenos & Bulldogs which you claim are 14 dropouts which is incorrect they split from the North and are there own gang...All these cars are gangs and your not riding or rolling with them unless you are going to engage in warfare become a Soldier (GANG MEMBER) You are not just going to hang out with these gangs just to kick it...I would like to know what prisons have you been in? And have you been a participant or do you take a spectator position a inside view or outside view? ?? The other Mexican cars I won't comment on because Border Brothers are consider a gang but I'm only going to speak on what I know for sure as a inside been there and done that comment.with respect BJ

[judastaugamma]

i guess you dont know what a dropout means.

just like you dont know what a gang member means.

f14 bds DROPPED OUT of 14. 14 dropouts.

gang members are ppl from gangs. if youre not from a gang youre not a gang member.

not every norteno/sureno is from a gang on the outside. riding sur/norte dont make you a gang member any more than riding paisa/wood/others.

spare me your "RESUME". i don't give a fuck. i did time too.

if you think every sureno/norte in there is a gang member you're fucking stupid.

[judastaugamma]

Apathetic, Silent explained it "well" Surenos are Surenos they dont run in different cars like the woods do...Nortenos are Nortenos same goes for them they dont seperate by Neighborhoods nor Countys....it's pretty simple to understand,far as Whites go you got alot of County Cars,that's how they congregate Mexicans in prisons do not run the same as Whites.

i don't really wanna argue. just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

but since you wanna talk like a know it all.

but surenos do claim different regions.

another thing you don't know.

in the pen 13 is 13.

but they do have separate cars that play in say county or ya or even juvie.

ask the inland empire sur or ventura or orange county sur.

ask the SFV, ELA, WLA, HA, SGV surs from LA.

[bumperjack]

I don't know it all...& Never claimed two... my resume speaks for itself...There is no arguing about cars and gang members really...you have your opinion... and I have mine you see it one way...I see it another...ding dong ding No big thing...No reason to start disrespecting each other over you just putting your 2 cents in or mine...I was a ryder for many years so you can miss me with all that stupid talk,I aint no lame or chump or punk partner, just because we are behind a keyboard dont go running your mouth calling folks names you dont know me and I dont know you.Im a real Mofo so I wont or havent disrespected you.Disruptive groups are just what they are you can get technical but it really don't mean anything.With respect always BJ

[bumperjack]

I think your talking about juvenile hall or CYA in the state prison system if you claim Nor/Sur and ride with them two street gangs in state prison your classified by Prison Officials so what your talking about must be CYA or Juvenile Hall...
if you bang and particapate what do you call them cats? ALL CARS IN PRISON ARE NOT GANGS BUT THE NORTH AND SOUTH ARE SO TELL ME WHAT DO YOU CALL A NORTENO OR SURENO? You said you done time...Sounds Juvenile to me...Anyhow I will end this with I been there: you claim you have...so you believe what you believe even if it's right or wrong...arguing isn't going to change what you believe or me... Judastaugamma...I don't it all but I was a street gang member and a prison gang member so miss me with that Schooling cause you haven't been schooled you been fooled.

[bumperjack]

You said you done time... I'm just curious WHERE??? I KNOW WHAT A DROPOUT & GANG MEMBER IS...BUT I DONT BELIEVE YOU REALLY KNOW... JUDASTUAGAMMA...ALL I WAS SAYING IS YOUR 2CENTS IS OFF IS ALL...NO DISRESPECT TO YOU...I WAS SCHOOLED MANY YEARS AGO...SO I DO KNOW ABOUT CARS &GANGS&DROPOUTS...YOU DONT GIVE A F...ABOUT SOMEONES RESUME JUST TELLS ME...YOU DONT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH...

[silentwssj]

Everybody claims certain things. Surenos from the IE can lay claim to IE. That does not mean that there is a different Sureno car in prison though that is based on being from the IE. I am a Nortenos from the Bay Area. I can therefore claim the Bay. We are all united as one force in prison though. It don't matter if you are from the valley or the bay!

[judastaugamma]

go to diego, LA, oc, inland empire.

hit up a sureno and claim sureno gang.

when they ask what varrio. say no varrio just sureno gang.

you'll get laughed at.

sureno/norte isn't your gang. it's your car.

not everyone in sur/norte car are from gangs.

what you think all the taggers/stoners/civilian latinos ride PAISA?

you don't know wtf you're talking about.

[judastaugamma]

Everybody claims certain things. Surenos from the IE can lay claim to IE. That does not mean that there is a different Sureno car in prison though that is based on being from the IE. I am a Nortenos from the Bay Area. I can therefore claim the Bay. We are all united as one force in prison though. It don't matter if you are from the valley or the bay!

in the pen it's all one.

but it does pop off REGIONALLY in county.

sometimes things pop off between different jails. usually gets squashed but it does get regional. at least here in socal with surenos.

example if la surs go to ventura or oc jail. sometimes things pop off. especially with bad feelings from la varrios trying open shop in other regions.

[judastaugamma]

You said you done time... I'm just curious WHERE??? I KNOW WHAT A DROPOUT & GANG MEMBER IS...BUT I DONT BELIEVE YOU REALLY KNOW... JUDASTUAGAMMA...ALL I WAS SAYING IS YOUR 2CENTS IS OFF IS ALL...NO DISRESPECT TO YOU...I WAS SCHOOLED MANY YEARS AGO...SO I DO KNOW ABOUT CARS &GANGS&DROPOUTS...YOU DONT GIVE A F...ABOUT SOMEONES RESUME JUST TELLS ME...YOU DONT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH...

you don't know shit if you think if everyone in the norte/sur car is a gang member.

so all your claims of doing time and knowing don't mean shit to me.

i know how it is. you don't.

everyone in sur/norte is a gang member. LMFAO dumbass.

[bumperjack]

There classified in state prison that way if they ride with the north or south whether they belong to a street gang or not, It is what you claim. I'm telling you it's not what I think. It's what time it is in prison you claim you done time you would know that.Apparently you never been to Cali state prisons.or you would understand what I'm saying.
A DROPOUT isn't a group or gang it's a individual who leaves there gang for what ever reason.So who looks like the dumbass now.the FBD are not DROPOUTS they split from the NF umbrella is all.