Stanley Tookie Williams will be sentenced to death this year

[NW10]

Tookie is a good man...regardless of his past,

He is valuable alive, no use dead.

to kill off part of the solution, madness!

There's no method in the madness. To kill him will be detrimental in terms of gang prevention.

[Christina Marie]

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

[MiChuhSuh]

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

SO IS THIS HOW CAS$ES SHOULD BE DECIDED?!?!? BY WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK?!?!

Tookie NEVER apologized for his murders. That is a fact, he keeps insisting he is "innocent". What claim to clemency or forgiveness does he have.

God still has his believers ask for forgiveness, Tookie insists he never killed anyone and ONLY apologizes for starting the gang, NOT for the murders.

[Christina Marie]

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

SO IS THIS HOW CAS$ES SHOULD BE DECIDED?!?!? BY WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK?!?!

Tookie NEVER apologized for his murders. That is a fact, he keeps insisting he is "innocent". What claim to clemency or forgiveness does he have.

God still has his believers ask for forgiveness, Tookie insists he never killed anyone and ONLY apologizes for starting the gang, NOT for the murders.

Have you read the court docs?? Are you aware that there was a complete lack of physical evidence??? If you would like to read it I can provide you the link.

['X']

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

SO IS THIS HOW CAS$ES SHOULD BE DECIDED?!?!? BY WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK?!?!

Tookie NEVER apologized for his murders. That is a fact, he keeps insisting he is "innocent". What claim to clemency or forgiveness does he have.

God still has his believers ask for forgiveness, Tookie insists he never killed anyone and ONLY apologizes for starting the gang, NOT for the murders.

Have you read the court docs?? Are you aware that there was a complete lack of physical evidence??? If you would like to read it I can provide you the link.

See if he or others who think like him actually read the court docs they would know the truth, and alot of people I hear say Took "never apologized" trip me out because I'm like damn was ya'll there? Did ya'll research this case and all the evidence or lack of evidence? If not, where are your assumptions coming from that he is guilty, and "need to apologize"? I hope not this bulls!@# ass media!

And another thing that trips me out is how so many people saying this brutha "needs to apologize", but I'm wondering how many of YOU have took your own advice and went back and "apologized" to those who could of been affected by some the s!@# you may have done in the past, or present.....

[Christina Marie]

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

SO IS THIS HOW CAS$ES SHOULD BE DECIDED?!?!? BY WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK?!?!

Tookie NEVER apologized for his murders. That is a fact, he keeps insisting he is "innocent". What claim to clemency or forgiveness does he have.

God still has his believers ask for forgiveness, Tookie insists he never killed anyone and ONLY apologizes for starting the gang, NOT for the murders.

Have you read the court docs?? Are you aware that there was a complete lack of physical evidence??? If you would like to read it I can provide you the link.

See if he or others who think like him actually read the court docs they would know the truth, and alot of people I hear say Took "never apologized" trip me out because I'm like damn was ya'll there? Did ya'll research this case and all the evidence or lack of evidence? If not, where are your assumptions coming from that he is guilty, and "need to apologize"? I hope not this bulls!@# ass media!

And another thing that trips me out is how so many people saying this brutha "needs to apologize", but I'm wondering how many of YOU have took your own advice and went back and "apologized" to those who could of been affected by some the s!@# you may have done in the past, or present.....

You have made two excellent points. I seriously doubt that the person has taken the time to read the court docs. I will post the link to that in case they feel like becoming fully informed. As for you're second point...I said the same thing above...and was told to shove my bible thumping as you can see.

[MiChuhSuh]

Executing Tookie is only going to send the message that once you have f*cked up...thats it. Might as well keep on doing what madness you're doing because society is'nt going to forgive you anyway.

SO IS THIS HOW CAS$ES SHOULD BE DECIDED?!?!? BY WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT THINK?!?!

Tookie NEVER apologized for his murders. That is a fact, he keeps insisting he is "innocent". What claim to clemency or forgiveness does he have.

God still has his believers ask for forgiveness, Tookie insists he never killed anyone and ONLY apologizes for starting the gang, NOT for the murders.

Have you read the court docs?? Are you aware that there was a complete lack of physical evidence??? If you would like to read it I can provide you the link.

See if he or others who think like him actually read the court docs they would know the truth, and alot of people I hear say Took "never apologized" trip me out because I'm like damn was ya'll there? Did ya'll research this case and all the evidence or lack of evidence? If not, where are your assumptions coming from that he is guilty, and "need to apologize"? I hope not this bulls!@# ass media!

And another thing that trips me out is how so many people saying this brutha "needs to apologize", but I'm wondering how many of YOU have took your own advice and went back and "apologized" to those who could of been affected by some the s!@# you may have done in the past, or present.....

You have made two excellent points. I seriously doubt that the person has taken the time to read the court docs. I will post the link to that in case they feel like becoming fully informed. As for you're second point...I said the same thing above...and was told to shove my bible thumping as you can see.

I had no part in saying "shove the bible thumping", just to clear that up.

Please post the link. As for X saying this I am brainwashed by the media, the media is all over Tookie's jock saying how great he is and how he should be granted clemency. I have never once seen an editorial or opinion slot in the news or newspaper on this subject which hasn't tried to convince people Tookie should be free. Please show me an article or post a link to an article of someone arguing against Tookie, I bet it is one out of a hundred other articles on the subject.

As for being "fully aware", alonso is very well educated on the matter and even he says that the evidence against Tookie is "overwhelming." And this is coming from someone who also protests the execution.

[Christina Marie]

9th circuit court opinion.
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopin ... penelement

I will track down the original trial docs tomorrow.

['X']

9th circuit court opinion.
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopin ... penelement

I will track down the original trial docs tomorrow.

['X']

As for X saying this I am brainwashed by the media.

Nope, never said "you was brainwashed" by the media. I asked where did YOU(not alonso) get your facts from that this brutha is guilty? I wanted to know if YOU researched this case and all the evidence or lack of evidence involved? And you still didnt answer that, but anyway...And why should he apologize? And for those who saying he should have YA'LL did the same to those who YOU ALL possibly have wrong? And if not, why speak on what this brutha SHOULD do?

alonso is very well educated on the matter and even he says that the evidence against Tookie is "overwhelming." And this is coming from someone who also protests the execution.

How you know what this cat is "very well educated on"? I was asking for those who say he SHOULD "apologize", have you all done the research for YOURSELF? Or was you all there to witness the alledged crimes to judge this brutha and say what he SHOULD do?

Aiight Peace...

[Anonymous20]

i heard that there were crime scene photos of the 4 victims on the net some where. Has anyone sen them?

[Christina Marie]

i heard that there were crime scene photos of the 4 victims on the net some where. Has anyone sen them?

I will see if I can track them down for you.

[MiChuhSuh]

i heard that there were crime scene photos of the 4 victims on the net some where. Has anyone sen them?

I saw three of the photos, I don't know about the fourth. And I have to say, it's a nasty scene.

I forgot the sight, I saw this about a year ago, I will post them oncie I get them.

By the way, the site talks about how in 2000 the police recorded a conversation Tookie had with this one dude who visited him in San Quentin and basically Tookie was trying to order this guy to have a hit on someone.

The police decided not to fully investiagate this since not only did the person refuse teh order (the police report didn't release his name), but on top of that Tookie already has a death sentence, so why pursure more charges.

[Christina Marie]

I have tried to track the photos down. So far no luck.

[MiChuhSuh]

I tried to find the same website, but they aren't there anymore, either they shut down or they moved.

[Anonymous20]

Albert Owens, 26, was killed in the 7-11 store, shot with a 12 gage shotgun



Tsai-Shen Yang, 63, was shot once in the upper body, and once in the base of her spine, killing her instantly.



Ye-Chen Lin, 43 was shot once in the head

[Common Sense]

These pictures are horrific, but at least Mr. Williams was able to live longer than his three victims.

[kg_loco1]

dam that last one she got her head blown off literally whoever did it

[Christina Marie]

dam that last one she got her head blown off literally whoever did it

The effects of a shotgun at close range.

[North Face]

Albert Owens, 26, was killed in the 7-11 store, shot with a 12 gage shotgun



Tsai-Shen Yang, 63, was shot once in the upper body, and once in the base of her spine, killing her instantly.



Ye-Chen Lin, 43 was shot once in the head

None of those pictures seemed to be gang related. But uma read more about what actually happened.

[North Face]

i dont think that Stanley Tookie Williams killed before, because as many people know, most gang members get caught for their murders unless they plot it out and apply some thought to it before hand. Today there are some unsolved murders, but those are done in a specific manner, not recklessly, not under the influence and usually without witnesses.

Tookie was a sherm head, what we would call a crack head today. During the early 70s, Raymond Washington was against killing and using guns, He loved to fight and that what they all did in the early 1970s. By the late 1970s, there were more guns, and guys like Raymond didnt like it. Tookie on the other hand was not as strict as Raymond, and I dont know if Raymond was ever a sherm head, but Tookie went with the flow but because we was such a careless person, there is no doubt, that this was his first taste of blood. I am sure he would try to represent himself to his followers in a different way, but if he did kill others, he would have been at least implicated in those killings, and that never occurred as fas as I know.

There is no evidence that he ever committed any other murders except for the 4 that he was convicted of.

I C. Drugs pretty much sent him To death. Let that be a lesson. Think ahead before you act in the case of Tookie.

[Christina Marie]

Albert Owens, 26, was killed in the 7-11 store, shot with a 12 gage shotgun



Tsai-Shen Yang, 63, was shot once in the upper body, and once in the base of her spine, killing her instantly.



Ye-Chen Lin, 43 was shot once in the head

What is you're definition of gang related??
None of those pictures seemed to be gang related. But uma read more about what actually happened.

[Christina Marie]

i dont think that Stanley Tookie Williams killed before, because as many people know, most gang members get caught for their murders unless they plot it out and apply some thought to it before hand. Today there are some unsolved murders, but those are done in a specific manner, not recklessly, not under the influence and usually without witnesses.

Tookie was a sherm head, what we would call a crack head today. During the early 70s, Raymond Washington was against killing and using guns, He loved to fight and that what they all did in the early 1970s. By the late 1970s, there were more guns, and guys like Raymond didnt like it. Tookie on the other hand was not as strict as Raymond, and I dont know if Raymond was ever a sherm head, but Tookie went with the flow but because we was such a careless person, there is no doubt, that this was his first taste of blood. I am sure he would try to represent himself to his followers in a different way, but if he did kill others, he would have been at least implicated in those killings, and that never occurred as fas as I know.

There is no evidence that he ever committed any other murders except for the 4 that he was convicted of.

I C. Drugs pretty much sent him To death. Let that be a lesson. Think ahead before you act in the case of Tookie.

Ya.....DONT SMOKE SHERM.

[MiChuhSuh]

There was one more pic I saw on that website, whoever got those three, was the fourth pic in that source?

[Anonymous20]

we was from West Side Crips, back then in the early 1970s, there were not many of the sets that exist today, but he was convicted of killing 4 people in their house, non- gang related while he was high on sherm.


Ofcourse he is denying it, but many sherm heads, PCP, and angel dust users, cant recall the severity of their crimes and in some cases dont even remember doing it.

Can you give a list of sets they had back then.

Back then during Tookie's day, they had East Side Crips, West Side Crips, Avalon Garden Crips, Compton Crips and a few others. A list of these neighborhoods are in Territoriaility Among....

[masokist]

i am strongly against capitol punishment for any crime.
but i can understand someone feeling a sense of vengance after viewing the photos, and to be honest it looks like the man did the crime. but still i do not feel he should be executed. after reading the posts here about his drug exeperince i feel even more strongly against him being executed.
he obviously didnt know what he was doing,
thanks for posting the photos they are really interesting. and the time line is really good too.

[MiChuhSuh]

i am strongly against capitol punishment for any crime.
but i can understand someone feeling a sense of vengance after viewing the photos, and to be honest it looks like the man did the crime. but still i do not feel he should be executed. after reading the posts here about his drug exeperince i feel even more strongly against him being executed.
he obviously didnt know what he was doing,
thanks for posting the photos they are really interesting. and the time line is really good too.

Those picutres are more disturbing than insteresting... seeing carnage is the reason this guy I knew quit banging and became a Christian...

I know what you mean about the drugs, but he should at least admit to his wrong even if he doesn't clearly remember, I mean some of his own friends testified against him, and he later showed off the murder verbally so I am sure he remembers something.

If he is truly changed and redeemed, he should be mature enough to admit when he is wrong. Clemency suggests repentance and rehabilitation in the case of a guilty man, and until he admits his wrong and confesses, I see no rehabilitation and thsu no clemency.

Ahnold is scheduling a meeting soon, we'll see how that goes.

[susanaATL]

Why do people say that the fingerprints at the scene don't match his, the boot print don't match his? Also a shotgun bullet cannot be traced like a handgun bullet, so how can they say it was his shotgun that was used in the killings. I wish I could see the transcripts of the orginal trial. Are they available?

[kingterp]

Wow I never seen anything like that in my life

[Christina Marie]

Why do people say that the fingerprints at the scene don't match his, the boot print don't match his? Also a shotgun bullet cannot be traced like a handgun bullet, so how can they say it was his shotgun that was used in the killings. I wish I could see the transcripts of the orginal trial. Are they available?

I just right now am trying to see if they are available. I had found them a long time ago.....but now I can not locate. I am asking around.

[MiChuhSuh]

Wow I never seen anything like that in my life

NO one should have to... I w

I wonder sometimes, if there were no cars invented yet to do all these cowardly hit and runs and not have to face their victims, how many would be left?

[Common Sense]

This is an interesting piece taken from another website:

November 23, 2005

Fond Memories of Tookie

I'm being sarcastic. The first thing you have to understand about Tookie Williams is that this is what he looked like. Knowing that this man used to hang out at parks and beat down people for fun, that he used to force people to oil his body, gives you some idea what Tookie was all about. The Tookie I knew hung out at Centinela Park in Inglewood with another huge dude named 'Mouse' doing pullups and otherwise being as badass as humanly possible. Basically, he did whatever he wanted to, and in the end what he wanted to do was be the most intimidating and dangerous man anywhere. He got his wish of course. Who was going to stop him?

I got other Tookie and Mouse stories second-hand from a kid named Timmy Green who was a bodybuilding roughneck too. Back in highschool, Tim Green was about five feet tall and 2 feet thick. He was a devastating football player, a little walking muscle. We all suspected that Timmy was a Crip, but nobody said it straight out, after all ours was an exclusive Jesuit prep school. I heard that Tim is dead, shot by another Crip somewhere. We kinda knew that he had a deathwish. Tim owned a red Honda motorcycle, a CB400 with the swivelly pipes. I rode with him once, and I immediately experienced a kind of terror I've never known before. Tim was absolutely fearless riding on the wrong side of the double yellow line of Crenshaw Blvd at 70 miles per hour. But if you talked about Tookie, Tim showed fear. Admiration to be sure. Tookie went everywhere in LA to prove that he was the was the baddest, and nobody lived to win a challenge, but fear too. Tookie was the man that thugs feared. There could only be one reason for that. He was more than buff, he was deadly.

You could not grow up in the 'hood in Los Angeles during the 70s and not know about Tookie or the Crips. It's probably hard to understand if you didn't grow up in a roughneck neighborhood. But street smarts are just that. You are forced to rely on the human instinct for survival, you navigate the degrees of danger and you grow senses that middleclass live has no use for. Tookie today looks like somebody's grandfather but don't be fooled. Back in the day, there were all kinds of gangs, some no more troublesome than the Jets or the Sharks. Truth be told, Tookie got busted right around the time gangs were going off the chain, and his Crips were the reason. The short version of the story is this, Crips were dangerous and they "Don't die, they multiply". There came a time when they became so pervasive and dangerous that anyone not in a gang was vulnerable - and then beyond that to the point at which gangs that didn't bang hard had to get hard. The Crips in the late 70s were basically escalating street rivalries into open warfare. From fists to knives to guns. The Crips created the Bloods because the Brims and the Pirus had to bang together or hang separately. When I was a kid, there used to be a saying: 'Crips are cool, but Piru rule'. By 1980, nothing was cool.

Me personally, I've battled Crips hand to hand. I've dealt with all kinds of knuckleheads, roughnecks and thugs. But everybody knows their limits. I know I am not to be a warrior and I didn't have to go to jail to learn any of that. I didn't have to wait until somebody wrote a rap song about 'dead homies' to know what that was all about. I grew up in the black neighborhood when basically few people had a choice on where they could get real estate. I know what it's like to walk through the Jungle at night, and I know if the man cursing on the bus is actually going to swing at you. But I only know what it's like to live around people who were basically about 1/3 as dangerous as Tookie Williams.

The scariest part of my neighborhood was West Blvd over near Adams. I could go into it, but it was over there wher I learned the meaning of getting 'curbed'. Now if you're dainty, skip to the next paragraph and agree me because I'm about to describe it. Everybody knows about being 'jumped in' and 'jumped out' of a gang. Basically about 7 of them beat you down until you can't stand up. That's child's play. You basically get curbed if you rat to the cops. What does that mean I asked? Well, you lay down in the street perpendicular to the and facing curb. You open your mouth and bite the concrete corner of the curb and somebody comes up behind you and kicks you in the back of the head. People who did this were afraid of Tookie.

I cannot wait until the founder of the Crips dies at the hands of the California justice system. This convict has actually convinced people that if you write some children's books, that you can redeem yourself for a quadruple murder conviction. That doesn't say much for the state of conviction these days. So long as he fries, I can handle it.

It's not surprising that the Coalition of the Damned is up in arms about this clemency drama, and quite frankly I'm not surprised that Jamie Foxx and others have a screw loose in this matter. Clearly, they don't know what Crips are all about. I discussed this sorry SOB here and over at africanamerican.org a month or so ago, and it's amazing the amount of BS excuses go into trying to make the case for clemency. Take this one for example:

Never mind the fact that Blacks make up the majority of the prison population because White cops are 6 times more likely to arrest a Black or Latino than a White offender. And never mind the fact that the police purposely go looking for Black criminal offenders while ignoring White criminal offenders.
Never mind the fact that the police don't do stings on White gangs because they know if it got on the news, it would tarnish the false image that "White people don't do crime". Never mind all of that, that is not important.

What is important is that Blacks are criminal animals, and that's all there is to it.


Nevermind? How about nevermind the Crips. So let's inteject a little sanity. And I'm going to break a rule here and bring back a whole lot more from a site than I usually do because I want people to get a handle on what gang violence is like in LA County. As you read this try to remember that this is just about one particularly notorius set out of hundreds of streetgangs.