Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

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silentwssj
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Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » December 20th, 2013, 7:48 pm

"Mexican Mafia the Gang of Gangs The life of Ramon Mundo Medoza" This is a good book written by a former EME member who dropped out! If you want to know all about the early history of the Mob written by a former member this is your book. It is filled with all kinds of personal stories and details. He is very honest about hits that he has committed and all his personal relationships with other members. There is a lot of good history in this one. My one complaint is that he makes the NF look a lot weaker than they are in my personal opinion. I actually believe the NF to be a lot harder than he portrays them. I have read a lot of other books about the EME and no one bad mouths the NF like he does. In my personal opinion both Prison Gangs have a lot of "stone cold killers" so I did not buy into all his EME superiority BS! A man is man period! Both sides got riders for sure and you got to respect that. I believe this guy is one of the main reasons the whole North-south split took place in the first place! He claims to be the originator of the term "FARMERS" for Nortenos! None the less it is a good book from an EME historical perspective!
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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby femun » December 21st, 2013, 10:15 am

Is this book different than, from alter boy to Hitman By Ramon Mundo Mendoza

viewtopic.php?f=171&t=47441&p=8744178&hilit=mundo#p8744178

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » December 21st, 2013, 10:36 am

I believe that they are the same book! I have tried to look up "from alter boy to hit man" and no one is selling it! Go to "police and Fire Publishing" and you can get "Mexican Mafia the gang of gangs" from them. It is expensive though about $70! Very good if you want an insiders view of the EME in the beginning years from a former member! I honestly view a lot of what he says with skepticism as far as how he views the NF. But, then again I am a former Norteno! It is just that I lived that life on the streets and in prison, so I guess you can say that I know better! I do consider it very accurate though. Remember that he is speaking from the other sides view point, so I guess I can respect that if you know what I mean!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » December 23rd, 2013, 9:26 pm

silentwssj wrote:"Mexican Mafia the Gang of Gangs The life of Ramon Mundo Medoza" This is a good book written by a former EME member who dropped out! If you want to know all about the early history of the Mob written by a former member this is your book. It is filled with all kinds of personal stories and details. He is very honest about hits that he has committed and all his personal relationships with other members. There is a lot of good history in this one. My one complaint is that he makes the NF look a lot weaker than they are in my personal opinion. I actually believe the NF to be a lot harder than he portrays them. I have read a lot of other books about the EME and no one bad mouths the NF like he does. In my personal opinion both Prison Gangs have a lot of "stone cold killers" so I did not buy into all his EME superiority BS! A man is man period! Both sides got riders for sure and you got to respect that. I believe this guy is one of the main reasons the whole North-south split took place in the first place! He claims to be the originator of the term "FARMERS" for Nortenos! None the less it is a good book from an EME historical perspective!
Silent ...... Different time frame he is talking about. Not sure if I would call it "disrespect" as much as it is is telling it "like it was." The early years (before Surenos and Nortenos were separated for good) were dominated by EME and Mundo not only reflects the total disdain they had for the NF and other inmates (to give them the "farmers" handle), but staff reports that are now coming out reveal a lot more. From April 21 through December 25, 1972 (an eight month period) 10 Nuestra Familia members were murdered by the EME (8) and the Aryan Brotherhood (2). In all the history of the EME vs. NF war, only one MM member was killed by the NF. There are two upcoming books - one to be authored by a Department of Corrections gang expert - that will chronicle and show crime scene photos, disciplinary reports, etc. to touch on this history. Mundo himself was convicted of killing two of them on the outside (1975) and suspected of murdering at least two other NF members while in prison. Unfortunately, following your respect theory, they had more "respect" for their other hated rivals - the Black Guerilla Family. So much so, that members of these two groups actually teamed up to murder 3 prison guards in San Quentin. Just Google San Quentin Six and read about it. Mexcian Mafia member Louie Talamantez was a co-conspirator. If you also Google Louie Talamantez and go to Images, you will see current photos of this man with his BGF "comrades." From everything I've read and corroborated, Mundo's writings are not an attempt to "disrespect" any group but to depict their frame of mind. It simply was what it was. I'm sure anyone with a brain can see that TODAY, both of these groups are deadly. Equal? I seriously doubt it, but all groups have the ability to kill. When these other two books are released, I will list them on this Web Site for anyone interested. Remember, anyone can spin. But facts can't be refuted if they are corroborated. Recommended book: THE MEXICAN MAFIA ENCYCLOPEDIA by Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza and Rene "Boxer" Enriquez. MUST READ and very complete. All of it corroborated by California Corrections Intelligence people and Prison Gang Task Force members. Hope this feedback helps.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » December 27th, 2013, 10:55 pm

I have actually read and own virtually every Mexican Mafia and Nuestra familia book in existence! Check my list of books, it is by no means complete. I only listed the books that I felt were worth looking into. There are some others that I felt were not worth mentioning to be honest with you, so I did not! I am very interested in any possible new releases coming out. There was a book that was listed as a "soon to be released book" it was called "Shotcaller". I believe it was about the EME in Pelican Bay and San Diego. It has been since taken off the "soon to be released list." I did some further research and it seems that it is only being sold to law enforcement personnel that attend seminars pertaining to it. Let me know if you know anything about it. As far a "Mundo's comments go I personally think that he was disrespectful towards his own kind! There are plenty of Surenos from "Farm towns" such as Bakersfield! I find it disrespectful that they label us as "farmers" while completely ignoring their own people from the same towns. I grew up in San Jose and believe me there are no farms there at all! It is Bay area through and through! I definitely get your point about it being historical fact and all. That is why I listed the book in the first place. It is what it is right! I wonder how accurate the statistics are though. I definitely would love to see some other books corroborate all of this! Especially from the NF side! I find it hard to believe that only one EME member has ever been killed by the NF in the entire history of the war. There were some things that I simply do not believe in his book. He says that Nf members were working with the guards to keep the EME locked down. I am sorry but I am flat out calling "BS" on that one! Trust me they do not work with the guards and trust me cowardice will get you killed in the NF. If they have documented evidence it is probably from one individual who was scared and passed a kite! It in no way reflects on the group as a whole. They are always outnumbered everywhere they go and continually they smash EME-Surenos. I am an ex Norteno, ex convict! I lived it! I know the people, rules, and the way we get down while always being outnumbered. You don't take on the EME and act like little punks and make it as long as they have! As far as "Bala" goes it was an isolated incident! I do not doubt the truth in it. Overall, the blacks and the EME cant stand each other. Trust me I lived it and witnessed it! Every now and then people will come together for different reasons though. I think this book is good to read if you want to know the mindset of one of the people who is responsible for the North-South split during the time that it happened. I definitely do not buy into all of his EME superiority stuff though. NF members Train for combat daily! They are by far the most organized of all prison groups. The reason they do this is because they know they have to be a "Cut Above" all other groups in order to survive with lower numbers! Obviously it has been working because they are as strong as ever today. I have read both the "Black Hand" and "the Mexican Mafia Encyclopedia." They are both good books and they both present a far better picture of the truth in my opinion. There is no blatant disrespect going on in those books. In fact "Boxer admits that the only time in his life he was hit in prison a "Norteno" did it! In my honest opinion the NF and the EME are both very organized, disciplined, and dedicated. Neither side will hesitate to put down an opponent if given half a chance. That is a real as it gets!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » December 28th, 2013, 1:10 am

Sounds like you are well versed in the subject matter at hand. The “Shotcaller” book was about a Sureno shotcaller who had the “keys” to San Diego and represented EME member Raul “Huero Sherm” Leon. It was released for a very brief period, then some legal issues came up and it had to be pulled. You might want to check Ebay from time to time to see if someone is selling their copy. I hear you about the San Jose non-farm thing. There were actually two San Jose EME members (Tuffy Castrillo and Vincent Inigo) in their group and several northern California members before the 13 vs. 14 thing came into play. Historically speaking, both groups (NF and EME) utilized propaganda during the early years. EME became the self-appointed “defenders” of La Raza only to exploit their own kind. The NF founders used the same language (originally) and promoted themselves as being defenders of the same Raza and of course, we see where that ultimately led. Mundo’s book talks about his attempts to “goad” the NF into a confrontation by referring to them as Northern Farmers (NF). Frankly, for someone who’s been in the mix, I’m surprised that you would react that way. It was obviously a reflection of how he felt then and the EME used it as a way of driving a wedge between them and their southern California friends versus the NF and their sympathizers. Looks like it worked too because look at the madness today. Every single EME, NF, Sureno or Norteno whoever killed or attacked another Hispanic, for that matter, is “disrespectful to their own kind,” if you ask me. In war, you don’t make up rules that only work for one side. These guys were at each other’s throats and the use of the term “farmer” or “scrap” isn’t going to stop them from their business. The Big Homies are probably sitting in their cells laughing at these guys calling each other names. It’s part of the EME/NF dictionary, I’m afraid. You are correct. There are no farms in San Jose, San Francisco and many Norcal cities. I think he just got under your skin, my friend. Just shake it off. ;-) There is a book that is coming out in 2014 that will discuss the collaboration between certain inmates who conspired with staff members to keep EME off the main line between September-1968 and late 1970. Because this no longer considered sensitive or classified, it can now be published. The motive of this book is to describe the prison guard point of view in the early years. It will touch on some topics that some people may not necessarily like to hear but if writers worried about offending some, they would never write, I’m afraid. Remember, when informants or collaborators work with prison staff, it isn’t broadcast for anyone to find out. A rat would be killed on the spot in those days as well as today. In Mundo’s time frame (he’s knowledgeable between 1957 thru 1978) only one EME was killed by an NF member. That was “Cheyenne” Cadena in Palm Hall (December 17, 1972). That’s it. When the question was asked by an officer at a gang conference, Rene “Boxer” stated that between Mundo’s time and his 17 years in the EME (he defected in 2002 and is currently working with law enforcement), no EME has been killed by NF anywhere. He should know about his time frame and he has no axe to grind either. But you are correct, it wouldn’t reflect on the whole group. When you say “they” are always outnumbered, are you speaking of Nortenos vs. Surenos because we can’t be speaking NF and EME. They are always locked down and separated, even in the federal prison system. I think we are talking apples and oranges anyway, guy. Mundo’s time frame was much more volatile and deadly. Those guys measured themselves in prison by the people they killed and not by how many punches were thrown. If their victims weren’t dead after an attack, they were teased by their own in the lockup units. In those years, they were usually outnumbered or equal in numbers to the NF. The EME then was very selective in who they recruited, the NF was not. They definitely had a “quality control” problem. Today it’s different and, since they are separated from each other, BOTH gangs are now very selective in who they recruit. “Bala’s” was indeed an isolated incident but the BGF should have killed Bala and Louie Lopez because they were indeed big time enemies and the EME and BGF were at war. The BGF hated the EME but they respected them and vice versa. According to Mundo, the EME did not respect the NF. Remember, that was then. You might chuckle when I tell you this but don’t be surprised if these two factions someday merge into one. I hope not for it would surely be a nightmare. Take care, happy reading and I will keep you posted on future NF or EME related books.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » January 8th, 2014, 7:30 pm

Hey there Razorman55! I have been waiting for a reply from you and it finally came! I guess you are new to the site and it took a week for them to post your stuff. I have only been here for about 2 months myself and went through the same thing. Anyhow I wanted to touch bases with you on a few things. First of all, I did not get all upset over "Mundos book". I have read all the good books out there that pertain to NF and EME, so I was simply stating my opionion on what I thought of each one of them. To me this site is here for the exchange of ideas. Prior to my joining this group, I read a lot of books that delt with these subjects. Once I joined the group, I noticed that a lot of good books were not even mentiond in the posts, so I decided to give my opinions on some of them. Most of these books I read a few years ago, I wish I could have given a more thourogh review right after I read them. You need to understand a little about me. I am a former Norteno! I am from VHS on the west side of San jose. I took a few trips through the county and state system back in the Days! I guess what I am trying to say is I lived this stuff! My knowledge honestly supercedes anything that you will find in these books by virtue of of my life experience. I know when I am reading truth and when I am reading BS! I simply wanted to let the internet world know that these books exist when I made these posts. I do think that all of the reading material is good and should be studied for those who consider themselves "Students of the game". I have personally learned a lot from these various sources myself! One thing that you must remember about me is I am always going to have a "Norteno centric" viewpoint. That is what I know, lived, and I am! When I wrote my review of "Mundos" book my comments reflect that viewpoint! I was simply stating to the world my personal thoughts on his book. Having said that, there are certain things that I would like to point out.

My personal viewpoint of him is one of an individual who is disrespectful towards his own kind! Try to imagine a world were there was no EME vs NF. The EME was started to protect all RAZA from abuse! It quickly became drunk with power and began to prey upon it own. These attitudes preceded the formation of the NF. EME members were abusing the very people they were supposed to stand for! This is why the NF came into being in the first place. It was not about the "Shoe incident", That was merely the "Straw that broke the camels back". In my opinion they completely blew it! They could have shown some love to there own and all this BS that we see today could have been avoided. Can you imagine the power that they would have if all hispanic groups were united under one banner. Individuals like "Mundo" caused all this to come into play. This may shock you, but I have had conversations with NF and NR members in prison about this subject. Everyone seemed to unanamously agree that we would be better off if we were united. The problem is you cant change 4+ decades of bad history and violence. It literally is to late! Not only that both sides have a "Few" individuals in power and they are never going to promote peace. To do so would mean abdicating the throne of power for them! It truely is a selfish world when you get to the top of both organizations. These guys have spent their whole lives building and promoting this. They have literally built armys around them. There is no way they will ever give up all that money and power!

I wanted to touch on some early history. When the NF first came into being they were vastly outnumbered! There is no way that you can say otherwise. Overtime they leveled the playing field with recruitment. These initial members had to be absolutely fearless though. How could a handful of inmates decide to stand up the EME and not be? I do think that you have a point in saying that they had a quality control issue though. This was only in the begining when they had to gain new members quickly to balance the numbers. The NF of today is highly organized, disciplined and selective! There whole philosophy revolves around quality not quantity! Anyone who has functioned with these guys knows that you can get "DEEMED NO GOOD" for a wide variety of trivial matters! I honestly think that the NF-NR-Nortenos are by far the single most strict and disciplined prison group out there. They literally clean house on there own all the time. A lot of this can be traced back to the early years. They had to come up with a system to separate the chaffe from the wheat!

I wanted to bring up another point! Forgive me if I am wrong about the author and the number of NF members. I have read so many books on the subject that I may have gotten my wires crossed on this one. I could have swore that in "Mundos" book, it was stated that Martin "Kato" Vargas came across a large number of NF members and they purposly avoided going into the chow line because they feared him. This is what I mean by BS! It said if I am not mistaken something like 14 NF members vs One EME member! Straight "BS". They would have chopped his ass to peices! This is why I do not have a good opinion of some of these books. They put out all this Sper hero EME stuff and I am not buying or beleiving it. The truth is both groups got straight killers in there ranks. All of them in fact! I dont beleive that you could become NF or EME unless you were a straight up bonafide killer and solid as Fuck in all aspects of your gangsterism! Just saying! So I definately have a low opinion of books that make these type of outrageous claims.

As far as numbers go, EME-Surenos greatly outnumber NF-Nortenos! That is is an indesputable fact! At this point in timeI am sure that both the NF and EME have a similar number of "Made members". Probably a few hundred on each side. Sureno vs Norteno numbers are probably in the neighborhood of 5:1. You have to consider the Sur as a branch of the EME, Just as Norte is a branch of the NF. All NF members are Nortenos but not all Nortenos are NF members. The Same goes for the south. All EME members are surenos but not all Surenos are EME! I say this because these prison gangs run these street gangs when in prison! We are all under the same program! The only difference is that if you are NF or EME you are in charge of everyone under you. I say this because I am trying to explain to you why I feel we are always outnumbered yet still get off under overwhelming odds. We are really one and the same! Also, it is not true that EME and NF are always separated! Quite a few slip through the cracks and are programming in General population. It is rare, but it does happen.

What do you think of Gabriel Morales book "Prison Gangs in America" ? I really like that one! It is totally different. He presents a unique view of the history of both groups. I learned more from this book than any other! I had no idea that so many NF members were from LA Varrios! You really do not see that to much today. Anyhow he is a former CDC guard so obviously he has access to records, pictures, and files that the rest of us can not see! He presents a unique picture in my mind of this history that I never heard before!

As far as death tolls go, I am still skeptical! I find it hard to beleive that "Cheyenne" is the NF's only EME casualty. I am not saying it is not true, I am saying that I would like to see more evidence on this one. Preferably from an NF source! It is important to hear both sides of everything you know!


Tell me more about this book that is coming out! What is it called, who is writing it, and when will it be released? I am always on the lookout for more knowledge and different viewpoints!


Anyhow, so tell me about yourself razorman55! I like to get to know the people that I conversate with on here! I am pretty sure that you have a connection to law enforcement? Are you a CDC guard, policeman, investigator, author, former gang member. or just someone who is interested in all of this? I say this because of your knowledge, so forgive me if I am wrong! You seem to know a lot more than most. I am familiar with all the names and stories that you speak on as well. That is because I read a lot. You said some things that lead me to beleive you may be LE though! Please be honest in your answer, it will not affect how I treat you in future posts. I figure that LE is all over this site so I dont say anything incriminating anyhow! If you are not "My bad", I am just curious on your status!

Anyways Peace out Silent!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » January 30th, 2014, 2:55 am

Hello Silent ………. Boy, this is a different blog alright. It did take a while to have my statement posted but not a problem. Yes, I can see that it is difficult to be “unbiased” when people tend to view events from the prism of Sureno or Norteno. Somewhere in all that mess lies the Truth. I am a retired law enforcement person who worked the early prison gang task force and have read all the debriefing reports from highly placed NF and EME members who have turned since the early years. If you are looking for someone to simply agree with your views, I’m afraid you came to the wrong place. If you are a student of the prison gang world who possesses an interest in learning the truth about these matters then you simply have to decide that your personal prejudices have no place in this. First of all, our task force worked diligently with Mundo subsequent to his “rolling” and we were indeed able to corroborate all but two street incidents via CDC reports, CDC officer eyewitness accounts and confidential informants. Silent, I will work step by step to answer you by placing some of your observations in parentheses first. (I know when I am reading truth and when I am reading BS!) With all due respect, Silent, you think you do but you don’t. The fact that you have served time doesn’t qualify you to talk about events that you were not there to witness. Norteno and Sureno propaganda hardly gives you the true facts either. This will be clarified as I go. (When I wrote my review of "Mundos" book my comments reflect that viewpoint!) If I didn’t know better, I would think you are saying that you already have a built-in predisposition to not believe anything he says unless it agrees with your experiences living in Northern Cal and doing time in your time frame?? Remember, open your mind, Silent One. (The EME was started to protect all RAZA from abuse! It quickly became drunk with power and began to prey upon it own) That’s the oldest form of propaganda straight from the “training kites” we confiscated through the years. The EME never once had a desire to “protect the Raza” and they antagonized an entire yard of Mexican-American inmates for almost a decade before ALL Hispanics at San Quentin – Texans, Maravilla gang members, NF, Northerners, everybody – rebelled against these oppressors. As I mentioned to you the first time I “met” you, there are several books in the making (as I write) that will be based on and include: 1)CDC incident reports, 2)Prison crime scene photos, 3)Debriefing reports, 4)Correctional officer reports and 5)Inmate eyewitness accounts. I’m sure you will enjoy these books. I will post their titles as they are published and you can choose to pick them up if you like. The NF’s 1965 formation at Soledad State Prison was purportedly for the purpose of “protecting the Raza” against the EME’s oppression. But we have learned from “Chalo,” “Death Row Joe” and others that they patterned themselves to be an EME copycat group. So, the question is: Did they form to protect Latino inmates from the EME or were they just another gangster organization who formed to strong arm other inmates?? The NF and the EME are indeed carbon copies of each other and BOTH groups exploit their beloved RAZA. Neither group is worthy of our praise and/or accolades. (Can you imagine the power that they would have if all hispanic groups were united under one banner) There was one EME member who had a vision of uniting the NF and the EME and that was Cheyenne Cadena. His EME counterpart was Frank “Joker” Mendoza, a southern Cal gang member from Redondo who was rejected by the EME in 1971. He was a strong Sureno member in 1970 and he and Mundo and other inmates attacked a group of bikers at Soledad and were transferred to S.Q. where they (Joker, Mundo and other Surenos) were goading NF members to sign a petition to allow EME members out to the Main line. When NF and Maravilla inmates refused to sign and the yard was about to explode, a CDC gang sergeant allowed Mike “Big Mike” Mulhern to be released from the Adjustment Center and Mike met with “Chalo” and Louie from Maravilla where they agreed on a temporary truce. I, for one, am glad these two groups never formed an alliance. To do so would have meant more Chicano inmates would have been exploited and you know that’s true. (These initial members had to be absolutely fearless though. How could a handful of inmates decide to stand up the EME and not be?) As my previous statement indicates, the entire SQ yard turned on the vastly outnumbered EME members. It was a good move, if you ask me. Once most of the EME members were locked up in A/C and B-Section, they made their move and succeeded in “running them off the mainline” for just over 2 years. As of January 1971, there were approximately 60-70 EME members that we validated and over 100 NF members. According to “Death Row” Joe, they were recruiting almost anyone and as a result they suffered a “quality control problem” (his words, not Mundo’s). The NF was finally able to strengthen themselves AFTER both groups were separated for good and this is likely the NF that you have been so valiantly defending, Silent. This is why I tell you, keep an open mind and listen. The original NF members are NOT what you think they were. (The NF of today is highly organized, disciplined and selective! There whole philosophy revolves around quality not quantity!) LOL. Yes, the NF of today. I agree. But their foundation was not about quality. It was about quantity. ("Mundos" book, it was stated that Martin "Kato" Vargas came across a large number of NF members and they purposly avoided going into the chow line because they feared him. This is what I mean by BS!) This is what occurred. The DVI mainline was all NF. They were not aware that Barry Mills (AB) was on the mainline and he was what you guys would call a “sleeper.” When Kato was released from Isolation, Mills gave Kato a shank and the two entered the chow hall. There was a line of NF members waiting to get their food trays. One of them (at the end of the line) spotted Kato (he was from Fresno and was very well known) and walked to the front of the line. The next guy at the rear of the line did the same. It was very comical how they leap frogged each other instead of warning the others. Kato and Barry Mills attacked and stabbed 3 NF members, one fatally. I don’t think there were 14 and Mundo’s book did not say that but there were about 4 or 5 NF members and a few were sitting in the mess hall eating at the tables. (This is why I do not have a good opinion of some of these books) Only because you don’t want to believe it, Silent. And I do understand. You are measuring the guys you know/knew in your time frame with the guys from another era – apples and oranges. After you read the book that will be coming out authored by a now deceased correctional gang sergeant, you will understand and maybe have an appreciation (criminally speaking) for the fear these older EME guys instilled in the hearts of everyone – blacks, whites, Latinos and prison guards. To the NF’s credit, it did take fellow Latinos to stand up to them. (Also, it is not true that EME and NF are always separated! Quite a few slip through the cracks and are programming in General population. It is rare, but it does happen) If a made EME member is ever discovered “programming” in a General population with the enemy, you have to know his days are numbered by his own group. I would venture to say the same is true for the NF. (What do you think of Gabriel Morales book "Prison Gangs in America" ?) Gabe’s books are well researched and a good read. (I had no idea that so many NF members were from LA Varrios!) This is covered in Gang of Gangs and the Mexican Mafia Encyclopedia. In fact, if you examine the credits in Gabe’s books, he often quotes from both books. (As far as death tolls go, I am still skeptical! I find it hard to beleive that "Cheyenne" is the NF's only EME casualty. I am not saying it is not true, I am saying that I would like to see more evidence on this one) So you’re telling me that you want an NF source to tell you that 100 EME members have been killed by the NF? This isn’t about sides. The facts are the facts. The Mexican Mafia Encyclopedia lists every NF fatality at the hands of the EME or AB. No one refutes this because if they would, they would have names and dates. The lone fatality in the “war” is Rudy “Cheyenne” Cadena on December 17, 1972 at Palm Hall. Silent, I’m not an NF or EME cheerleader but the numbers are listed in every active prison gang investigator’s file. As long as this web site is interesting I will be happy to contribute to it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If I feel they will produce answers that may endanger someone or taint an innocent person, I will respectfully decline to answer. Otherwise, stay tuned.

Razorman55

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 5th, 2014, 9:40 pm

Hey there Razorman55! Interesting post you just made there. I want to clarify some things. I feel that I am a pretty open minded person. I realize that men are men and that is why I get upset when people try to down play Nortenos-NF as being less then. There is a lot of BS put out there by the Southern element of La Raza! In my honest opinion the only weakness that I observed amongst my own was 1. that usually we were greatly outnumbered. This lead to Surenos-EME feeling like they were tougher, when in fact they were just deeper. It is a lot easier for them to play the art of war on the yard when we have lets say 50 men and they have lets say 150 men on a yard. They can and do simply send half there force at us to remove us from the yard while retaining the other half of there manpower to control the yard. I have been fortunate enough to personally witness the opposite as well though. I have been on a yard where we had them outnumbered. Honestly it was comical! They were not so tough anymore! They were real low profile and discreet! You have to understand that when we enter the prison system, we go in knowing that we have got to be at our best at all times because of the numbers difference. We run a real strict and tight program. They do not. They rely on there numbers for strength. Most Nortenos program their minds and bodies on a level that would be comparable to that of an NF or EME member! They have to just to survive. It is no joke when the odds are stacked 3-1 against you sometimes more. You had better be ready for anything at anytime. That is why I got upset when I read "Mundos" book. It simply did not portray Nortenos and NF as I thought it should have, or as I know them. Weakness number 2 that I have witnessed is that my people have become so militant that they have begun to prey upon there own. If you do not tow the line they will single you out for discipline and possible removal! Surenos, on the other hand have a much looser structure. We are literally loosing huge numbers of our own to petty discipline issues. It is crazy. Your average Norteno comes into prison as a minor gang member-drug addict and is expected to become a warrior of the highest caliber. Some make it and others do not. The only difference is that there is no mercy for those that cant hang. The southerners do not program like that! I have a theory about the difference between how the NF and the EME run there street operations. To me the Nf is like a communist nation. Everything is centrally planned. There is a hierarchy and all members must kick up to those at the top! Even NF members who are taxing there street gang subordinates, must kick up to there higher ups in pelican bay. To me this impedes their growth. It is to controlling and set up to serve the interests of a few individuals. An NF member who collects street taxes only takes a portion for himself the rest goes to the generals. All neighborhoods are serving the same purpose and common goal. The EME on the other hand is run like a capitalist country. No member is higher than another member. They do not have to kick up to anyone higher. This encourages growth but also violence against one another because they are competing with each other. It is basically one corporation or neighborhood being run by a member fighting against another corporation. This results in unlimited growth but shaky unity! Just a little food for thought!

Anyhow, I think that you are right about my not knowing about the early history of both groups. I was not there so I can not comment on it. I can say that the NF of today is highly organized and deadly! I think that we both agree on that though. Lets not get into anymore petty arguments with each other ok Razorman! I do think that someone of your background has a lot to contribute, so I will leave it at that. Even if I have my own opinions about certain things I am always willing to learn more. That is why I am on this site. Believe me I am not an ego maniac out to convince the world that Norte-NF is the toughest organization walking planet earth. I will defend them as I see fit though. Hopefully you can respect that! Just so you know, I am no longer involved in any of this lifestyle. I am married, 4 kids, clean-sober for over a decade and very much into my Catholic faith these days. I am simply someone who has been exposed to this lifestyle as a young man and I guess you can say that it has left a mark on my soul! I wish to learn all that I can and set the record straight whenever possible. If anything I hope and pray that others do not have to tread the same path that I did! It is no life to live!

I think that I may know who you are! As you know I am pretty well read. There is an individual who put out a book that has the same description of himself as you. I will not put his real name out there out of respect for you, if it is you? He calls himself "Moco" does that ring a bell? If not do you know him? You can answer me in a private message if you wish to remain anonymous. Or you can choose not to answer that question at all, I just thought that I might have a good idea about who you are.

One thing that I do want to learn more about is the fresno bulldogs. Do you know anything about them? I have read that they got there start by an NF member named Flaco who was ordered to hit Babo sosa. Flaco was from fresno and was a close accomplice of his. He did not comply. The Nf then asked Crackers to hit Flaco and he did not comply either. This is the same Crackers that hit Cheyenne cadena! Both Crackers and Flaco were from fresno. Instead of hitting these two individuals the fresno regiment simply broke off and started the bulldogs taking the city of Fresno with them. I was told a similar story in prison years ago before any NF books were ever on the market. Can you corroborate this. What else can you tell me about them? They like to portray themselves as not wanting to follow the NF program. I always thought they may have had other motives for the split though. what do you think?

Anyhow, peace out Razorman! It was good to talk to you and hopefully I will hear more from you in the future. Keep me posted on any new books ok! Silent!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby VictoriousHTZ » February 6th, 2014, 7:33 am

Good shit Silent. Glad to have another non ego maniac contributer to this place. I like how you compared each structure to economic systems. Maybe those in power purposely set it up that way.

Im an Other who grew up in WSLA. From one of the few Asian gangs with territory surrounded by SouthSiders and nothing but!

Have you heard about MM green lighting Asians in the past?

Do you have/know any history of Asian and Norteno relations in and out of prison?

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 6th, 2014, 12:59 pm

Hey there victorious hitz! We program with you guys in the penitentiary! We have an alliance, Nortenos-others-Blacks! vs Southerners-Paisa-White-Native. When I was in San Quentin we let the others share our work out area with us. That is pretty close! Trust me, we do let anyone approach our area at all. We literally take turns posting up at all four corners of our section of the yard. If you get to close we respectfully let you know that this is our area and that you can not come any further. If you dont listen you get the hell beat out of you quick! We let you guys and only you guys in our space! So yes, we have very friendly relations with you guys. We are also pretty cool with the blacks. They got their own section of the yard though. The problem with them is they are broken down into 3 main groups. Crip-Blood-Kume! Kume we back up no matter what! through thick and thin! Bloods we generally like as well, but we keep a close eye on them being that they are usually from LA. I have been on yards where there were bloods that were so close to us that we allowed them into our area to work out with us on a daily basis. Crips we will back up but they are the least close to us. They simply can not get over that red and blue thing! I once had a job assignment where there were two crips and me working with a grip of peckerwoods. We formed a pact of unity in case shit ever popped off. They would always question me about the color issue though LOL! One was from Santa Monica and the other was from Insane Crip gang, Long beach! On that same yard one our guys almost got into some serious shit with a Rollin 90''s crip by the name of Monster! LOL at that name "I bet he copied it from Monster from eight tre! Once again the color issue and the LA issue came into play. Monster felt that we being Nortenos hated LA. We had to explain to him that it was not an LA issue, it is an Northern-Southern mexican issue. He also felt dude was staring at him. Anyway we made it real clear to his 400 lbs ass that if he wanted funk his life expectancy would not be to much longer and he backed off! The funny thing is that KUME and the Bloods also said they would back us up against the Crips. Prison politics gets real complicated sometimes. Anyhow back to you guys. "Others" in prison stick by racial lines. I have meet a Camobidian crip from westminster, but he ran with only the asians. Remember if the yard pops off we Northerners-blacks-asians all fight along side of each other anyway, so it does not matter! In Santa Clara county jail we basically protect you guys from all the other groups. You guys are not that deep so if we see someone causing shit with you we run to your aid! I have meet some down ass asians in my time, that is for sure! You guys are very low profile though. On the streets we Nortenos really dont mix to much with you. It is just to big of a cultural divide to have anything in common! I personally have kicked with quite a few vietnamese-Samoan-korean-philipinos on the streets though. They always came at me with respect so I always gave it back, you feel me! The NF and some asians crime syndicates are pretty close up in San Francisco! I am sure that as time goes by we only grow closer and make more connections! The main issue is that most asians in San Jose are still speaking vietnamese. As time goes by and they assimilate more, I am sure that we will kick with them a lot more. The only thing that I know about with asians verses the EME has to do with Long Beach asians going at it with the Longos! I beleive the EME greenlighted them for that! That is probably why we are so close with you guys. Mutual enemys make make good friendships! Peace out homeboy! feel free to hit me up whenever! Silent!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 6th, 2014, 11:46 pm

Hello Silent ……. First off, I’m glad to hear you have your priorities straight in life and it sounds like you made it out of that hell hole. Congratulations. Unless people are blinded by their biases, no one should “play down” any of these groups – EME, NF, AB or BGF. If you met someone like Mundo, Boxer (Enriquez) or Boxer (Mendoza) today, each of these guys would be the first to tell you that ALL these groups are losers. I think you know this in your heart of hearts because your family comes first. Today Mundo would probably be the first to express his sorrow for what he helped create in this Norteno vs Sureno thing although when he relates his frame of mind as a Sureno turned EME, he does tell it like he felt back THEN and how it was. Most Southerners and Northerners of today have no idea of the real history, Silent and they are simply running their mouths spewing their ignorant propaganda. I don’t have time for those BS web sites. There is today a newer Sureno / Norteno thing that is taking place in other parts of the U.S. and much of this has been instigated by California people who move to other states and start banging and waving the Blue/13/Sureno flag or the Red/14/Norteno flag if you know what I mean. The biggest problem in states like Utah, Washington, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma and many more is the Sureno activity. These gangs are started by youngsters who migrate to these states or copycat gangsters who saw American Me and now they wish to emulate. We now have a huge problem in Latin America with, you guessed right, Sureno gangs who have proliferated throughout those countries, especially Florencia 13, 18th Street and MS13. Except for MS13, who only pays EME taxes in L.A. and have actually just recruited some top leaders from MS13, the proliferation of Florence 13 and 18th street is huge in Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, to name a few. A recent folk hero in Mexico is David “Popeye” Barron, who was an EME member that worked with the Arellano-Felix Cartel (aka: the Tijuana Cartel) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVePQPSx ... tube_gdata There is a two pronged program taking place in Norcal as we “speak.” Many Norteno gang members are still flying the RED / 14 / Norte but there are identified EME members who are distributing meth, heroin and cocaine in many Northern California cities, some to usable Surenos and also they utilize intermediate people who are connected with many Norteno gang members who do not know (and they probably don’t care) they are selling EME dope. One of the individuals arrested in a recent August 2013 sweep was Fred “Fast Freddie” Montoya out of Hayward, a made EME member who was distributing meth in Norcal. Most Surenos in Southern Cali on the outside don’t have as much invested in the 13 vs 14 thing because there are no Norcal people that constitute even a remote threat in SoCal. It isn’t until they go to prison that they are exposed to this. They come back out and life goes on in their world and they have a hard time “hating” on a norteno. The reverse is different in Norcal. They “feel” this rivalry there because of the so-called Surenos who are “used” by EME to keep the pot stirred and sell their dope in that region. If Norteno gang members continue to think like street thugs, they will get riled up over the 13 vs. 14 thing and it will always be a “gang thing” this flying color game. When they get serious about drug business our fears in law enforcement is that the EME business people will subtly absorb the Northern gang members (not overnight, because, as you rightly state, there are many open wounds) and it will be business first, red/blue bandanas somewhere on the bottom, loyalty to La Raza just a slogan!). The NF Big Homies are no different than their EME counterparts. They sit in their state or federal prison cells and push buttons and neither groups give a hoot about La Raza except to use and exploit them for their Capitalistic gains (smile). They will line their pockets with as much green as they can generate and whoever they feel like eliminating that isn’t kicking back to their satisfaction is simply erased by the push of one button. I would never engage in petty arguments, don’t worry Razorman. I know what I’m talking about and sometimes that may rub folks the wrong way but “the Truth will set you free” as Martin Luther King would say. Sorry, I don’t write books but I’m familiar personally with just about all the prevailing gang authors including all the Law Enforcement guys and Mundo and Boxer Enriquez too. I also know who Moco is and he wrote an interesting book as well. Good man who’s been around. “Crackers” Vindiola was a solid NF member who turned against them and is still in the CDC in lockup (PC) doing a life sentence for the Cadena homicide. Today the Bulldogs do not get along with NF/Norte and are usually at odds with Surenos too. Between a rock and a hard place. Like Maravilla in the past, the Bulldogs are usually separated as soon as they arrive to most prisons. Don’t have much to offer on Bulldog history but Crackers turning against the NF was more politicking than neighborhood preferences. Enough for now and keep in touch.
Razorman55

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 12th, 2014, 4:23 pm

Hey there Razorman! Wow they have you tied on a leash on this web site dont they! I notice that you submitted this last post on 2/7/14 but I did not see it published until this morning. I went through the same thing in the beginining myself. Dont worry I am sure that they will give you full access soon. Once again you touched on some interesting things.

the whole migration of Norte-Sur out of state. I have been living in New Mexico for the last ten years and I see it everyday! I literally see both sides out here on a daily basis. So much so that they are posing a serious threat to the homegrown gangs out here. From my understanding the "Syndicato Nuevo Mexico" has roots that lay deep in the EME. George Padilla was an EME member. "Los Padillas" is a huge gang out here that was started by him. I personally know a few Padilla's boys out here. The funny thing is that they do not know there own history! They all tell me that their number one enemy are Surenos! I think that at this point they are full blown SNM and have lost all ties to the EME. Maybee someone of your expertise can shed some light on it? I have discussed the whole Sureno vs New Mexico based gang rivalries with members from both sides and they seem to have an uneasy peace at the moment. So many southerners have come out this way that they tried to make a serious grab at power up in Santa FE state penitentiary! Both sides tell me this and it has definately caused tensions. I am real good friends with a former SNMer who did a lot of time both state and federal. He informed me that they still have a shaky alliance but it is falling apart as we speak. I know a member of "Los Carnales" also. They are fierce enemys with SNM. In Gabe Morales book "prison gangs in america", he says the LC's used to be called Nuestra Familia. Can you validate that for me? I asked the guy that I know and he had no idea. That is a pretty interesting story if you ask me. Basically the two main New Mexico prison Gangs both have their roots in the EME and Nf and they are fierce rivals to this day. We definately have Nortenos Gangs out here as well. I see dudes with Norhside X4 tattos all over Honestly it really amazes me that this has spread so far. I got 18th street living in my neighborhood right now! My next door neighbor is one of them. To be honest with you I dont think that they have a clue though. I walk around my front yard with my shirt off exposing my Norteno tattos and they dont ever say anything! This has happened numerous times with his homies there and everything.In fact they always make it a point to be real respectful to me. This leads me to beleive that they are either clueless or just respect the old man next door! LOL! In my opinion they are just "Emulators" with no real connection. I worked with a guy from 18th st out here and he asked me if Nortenos and 18st get along, when he found out where I was from. LOL again! It is just not the same out here. Back In San Jose if you see the enemy fights happen pretty fast! Out here both sides intermingle pretty easily! These groups are simply not the same once they leave California.

As far as Bulldogs go, I have always wondered about them. They state that they did not want to follow all of the NF's stringent rules, I wonder if that is really true. I have a feeling that what I told you in the post above was the real reason. I was told years ago in prison "Before any of these books were out" that they were created to protect a dropout! I am sure that dropout is "Crackers" He must have somehow convinced all them fresno boys that going independent was in their best interest. I definately heard about Crackers years ago. I would love to learn more about them. I have never actually crossed paths with a Bulldog in my life that I know of. They are a mystery to me. I do think that the NF is a lot stricter than the EME. The EME let Maravilla back into the fold. I just dont ever see that happening with the Bulldogs.

what can you tell me about active EME members up north? There has been some debate going on here about that subject. I know that San jose had 2 way back in the 70's. Mike "Acha" Ison was from San Franciso. He was an old school member though. I dont think that there was a Norte-Sur thing going on when got in. There is the dude from venice 13 that lives out in Visalia. He is a longtime member and an old man at this point, I think his name is "rubio". I never have heard about the guy from hayward that you mentioned. I know that there have been southerners in heyward for quite some time though. When I would do my parole violations out at Santa Rita the A street boys would always let me know what was going on in there city. Do you know of any active EME members in San Jose or surrounding cities? I have always wondered if any of these San Jose Surenos are even legit! As far as I can tell Clanton 14st is the only real southern neighborhood to make its way up there. The rest are mostly paisa's that got turned out on their way up north. How about the rules of the EME vs the NF? From what I can tell there is no comparison. The EME's rules seem very basic. I have never stumbled across much to lead me to beleive otherwise. Do EME members make up their own rules for their underlings? Do they only follow the most basic rules when dealing with each other? I am sure that you have read the NF constitution-Bonds-Format etc! To me that is a lot more in depth and organized. Why is it that the EME does not have similar rules or do they and we just do not know about it? If you can enlighten me as much as possible!

As far as I go, I left this life many years ago! I hope you realize that we are not all bad people! Some of us just gow up in a certain environment and become a part of it. I definately made some bad choices as a young man, but I have become accountable for those mistakes and moved on in life. My big issue was I felt disrespected by southerners coming into our area and disrespecting us on a city-neighborhood-and individual level! I have always felt that a "Man is a Man", it does not matter where he is from. If that makes any sense to you I was fighting a battle of "respect". The funny thing is that when I went to prison and my mind cleared up from all the drugs and alcohol that I was polluting it with, I basically awakened to a greater truth! To me that truth is that we are all one, children of God! The devil is the master of illusion! He will make you think that you are a righteous individual and he will attempt to ensnare you with money, women, respect and power! In the end though I woke up th the truth We are fighting each other over drug profits and pure and raw power! Basically it is pride and greed gone crazy! Once I did not care about getting high anymore, to be honest with you I really did not care about fighting this fight anymore. I realized that the only thing that was holding me back in life was my addiction and my unmanageable life because of it! I also found God in a big way! I had never been exposed to church as a kid. When I read the Bible cover to cover the words of the holy spirit resonated with my soul in a special way! It made it really hard to continue living as I formally had before. To me the ultimate reality became do you want to follow god or your homeboys? You can not do both. When you die either you will be in the presence of the Lord or you will be separated from him for eternity! The choice is that simple. To be honest with you once I started to live a spiritual life I changed as a person. I no longer came to view Surenos as my enemy, I simply viewed them as lost souls on a path that I once followed. I guess you could say that I am done fighting this fight and have been for some time now. I simply pray for both sides at this point and hope that individuals will wake up before they sacrifice their lives to the CDC or eternal damnation! Life is a beautiful gift and many people waste it with all of this crap! That much I can and do agree with you Razorman! If it makes any sense to you it also forged me into the man that I am today. Of course I would never recommend that anyone follow that path, but it is my unique journy in life that made me who I am! Hopefully I did not bore you with all of my religious talk! I simply wanted to let you know that not all of us ex gangmember types are bad people! We definately made some serious mistakes but change is possible! I feel that I have given some years of my life back to CDC and justice has been served. I now am a productive member of society. I have a good job as a union tradesman, I am married, I am a father, a home owner, and most of all I strive to be a decent human being as much as possible! Peace be with you Razorman! stay in touch and if you can answer as many questions as you see fit!

Oh by the way, I am curious to know if you have read John "Boxer" Mendoza's book "Nuestra Familia a broken paradigm" If so what do you think of it? I know quite a few individuals in that book. For me when I read it, I was glad that I choose a diferent path in life. I was sad to see so many people that I did time with and grew up with facing huge sentences. It made me reflect back to my days in prison and the choices that were placed before me. When I hit the Pen they took a good hard look at me. I was a workout warrior. Running 10 miles, followed by doing a 1000 pushups and toping that off with 30 sets of pullups was the daily norm for myself. Everytime that I competed in the prison ironman contests I always won. Also, when they read my paperwork, they noticed that I was involved in major dope type of stuff! Trust me that type of stuff gets you noticed! Some people actively seek membership and get rejected. others just go about there daily business and get actively recruited. that was the category that I feel into. The only difference is that I let them educate me but I never took "The plunge" so to speak! Everytime time they would hit me up I would respectfully decline! Thank God is all that I can say. I wouldnt be here writing this now if I had! Just food for thought. That book made me reflect back on alot of those people and the choices they made and the choices I didnt make!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » February 12th, 2014, 5:31 pm

How tight would you say the Natives are with the southerners? Seems like they have a tough time in prison. I knew a Native that said they ended up in pc and I think I also heard of Natives riding with the other car.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 12th, 2014, 7:53 pm

Hey there Rudog! I just got your PM take your time on the map if you need it. I was just thinking that when we were ready we would unveil it to the world. I am addressing this to you on here because like you said my PM system probably is full. I will work on deleting some of it. Anyhow, the natives are not that close to the southerners. They are the most distant or neutral group in that alliance. Nonetheless they are in an alliance with them. They are also the weakest of all groups in prison in my opinion. Honestly they pretty much don't have an area. Every yard has a fenced off section for them to hold their ceremonies and that is where you will find them. I have seen them get blatantly disrespected and do nothing about it. I always felt kind of bad for them as they are only in that alliance because prison politics demand that all groups choose one side or the other. You can not say that you want to remain neutral. I have done level 1,2,3 time! In level 1 and 2 you are in a dorm. There is 2 bathrooms, 2 TV's with a separate sitting area for each tv. You have to belong to one alliance or the other because that dictates where you shit, shower, and watch tv. If you cross into the other sides area you get done! It is a security measure based on alliances. Can you imagine taking a shower with Surenos walking in and out of the bathroom. Not going to happen right! Anyways at some point in the past the natives choose the other side!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby andrew » February 14th, 2014, 2:03 am

the natives there run with surenos? who is the prominent native gang in CA pens? Native Pride?

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 14th, 2014, 6:05 am

Hey there Andrew! I am not actually sure who the dominant gang is for you guys! There are so few of you in the prison system in CA. You guys were real low key. All the members were from all over. No one group dominated. It was not like New Mexico where you see Navajos and Pueblos everywhere! They really are neutral for the most part. I would say politics made them do it as everyone must choose a side. It is not like you see Natives and Surenos busting down together or anything. It is simply an understanding that if the yard goes up in flames we got each others back. Paisa's are another example. They are aligned with the Southerners to. We always had real close relations with them though. Trust me it used to piss off the southerners and for some odd reason the woods to. All the Paisa's used to tell me was how they couldn't understand how their Raza was so divided. To them we should all be one!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 14th, 2014, 10:01 am

y MMRbkaRudog » February 12th, 2014, 5:31 pm
How tight would you say the Natives are with the southerners? Seems like they have a tough time in prison. I knew a Native that said they ended up in pc and I think I also heard of Natives riding with the other car.

There is a historical connection between two prison gangs and Native Americans. First, and this will likely amaze you, there were two inmates named William "Snake" Titman and Martin "Crazy Horse" Lewis who belonged to the Aryan Brotherhood as they rode with the whites over the Blacks. In the early years (pre-Nortth vs. South) the big racial wars in prison either pitted the Blacks vs. Hispanics or the Blacks vs. Whites and most "other" inmates (Filipinos, Poynesian, Native-Americans, etc.) would choose white or Hispanic over Blacks for identification purposes. "Crazy Horse," who was from Fresno, California, did something that was rare (event by today's standards) and asked permission from his AB brothers to leave the AB to join the Mexican Mafia!! Like I said, unprecedented!! Because the AB had formed an alliance with the EME, similar to an alliance formed between the NF and BGF, they gave him their blessings and "Crazy Horse" became the first Native American to become an EME member and he and EME member Ramon "Mundo" Mendoza were suspected/apprehended for killing and wounding two BGF members at San Quentin in 1974. Both were locked up until their release from prison (they called it Deadlock) and Lewis died in a car accident on New Years Eve (December 31, 1974) in Clovis, Calirornia, after consuming too much firewater and he was decapitated in the car crash. The next Native-American to join the Mexican Mafia was Corwin "Sloppy" Elmore, a vicious killer who was Joe Morgan's EME personal bodyguard in Folsom prison when Morgan was an older inmate in his mid 60's. Sloppy was also the sponsor/Padrino of Rene "Boxer" Enriquez, the subject of the book, The Black Hand. History in some areas is important but prison politics today can trump all of that because we have an entirely new generation of gangsters these days. Hope this helps.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 14th, 2014, 11:45 am

REPLY TO silentwssj » February 12th, 2014, 4:23 pm (This is Post Number 1 of 2)
(((Hey there Razorman! Wow they have you tied on a leash on this web site dont they!)))

Hello Silent. I have no idea why I would be “tied on a leash” without being read my Miranda Rights (smile). Am not concerned as the beauty of the Internet is there are always other Blogs to navigate. Out-of-state gangs understandably seek to establish their own identity and being from San Jose, you should know how a gang-infested area does not take kindly to someone, anyone, attempting to arbitrarily impose their will on them! The SNM is officially considered an EME ally and much of this comes to pass when they meet up in the BOP system as the feds are inundated with Sureno inmates and is their biggest problem by far in their system. As you correctly state, SNM dances to its own beat in NM prison system and don’t need alliances with other gangs, especially Cali gangs, to exist. George Padilla was slain by New Mexico police well over 40 years ago and was a confirmed EME member. Dozens of EME members have their roots in NM as does some NF as well but they pretty much forsake their roots when they move to Cali as you well know. Every state’s number one enemy is Surenos and every state’s major problem is also Surenos so it doesn’t surprise me that Los Padillas or any other gang would feel this way. Those relationships change with the blowing of the criminal winds as most of these guys are confused and you know it. If you lived in a “heavily infested” So Cal area exposing your North tattoo, someone’s life span would be reduced to days and I’m sure you know this. New Mexico gangs obviously don’t care about North or South so they look at your old butt with interest only (smile). I’m sure you know this too or you wouldn’t expose your tattoos and potentially endanger your family. The shaky alliance between the SNM and EME is probably due more to the southerners (not Surenos) who migrated to NM and fly the Sureno flag. First of all, it’s not like EME sent them. These guys do this (emulating and representing) on their own (similar to how many do this in Northern Cali) in the hope of gaining favor with the Big Homies and EME, who are probably for the most part unaware of this at first, doesn’t discourage them. If they get a foothold, then EME swoops in and begins to tax the “occupiers” and then these new gangs either comply (as they have in many cases) or they don’t and they form their own thing in their own state.

Like George Padilla-Los Padillas connection, one of the older NF members named Sammy Venegas originated from NM and he maintained ties with his fellow gang members. I cannot validate the LC’s once being called Nuestra Familia but one of your gang experts in NM might know. That’s right, there are many emulators everywhere and it’s the same old story: gang members wanting to identify with something “big.” CRIPS and Bloods have the same issues throughout the U.S. The Bulldogs, as previously stated, do not adhere to NF or EME rules and this why they remain separated and many are now in SNY (Sensitive Needs Yards). As I write this, SNY yards almost outnumber the regular yards due to the extreme pressure they are placed under. The Vindiola brothers were highly respected in Fresno so it makes sense they would rebel against the NF authority, and being from the North, they got caught between a rock and a hard place but you have to give them credit for their “huevos rancheros” as they rebelled against both prison gangs. Maravilla members never killed a made EME member so their being allowed back in the fold was easy as a gang falling into their compliance. You can reverse the coin and say, “Why would Maravilla go back?” If you read the Marvavilloso Section of the Mexican Mafia Encyclopedia, you will immediately understand the close affinity between Maravilla and EME. What kept them on the “green light” status were a few old timers (one was an EME dropout named Robert “Wito” Marquez) who tried to keep them divided. In the end, it was more their desiring that status more than the EME waiting them out. Don’t know what you mean by strict. Doing push-ups at 6 in the morning? They do that in every module in L.A. County Jail. All I can tell you about EME members up north, without compromising anything current, is there have always been members in Hayward, San Francisco, Fresno, Visalia, Sanger, Sacramento and San Jose. As mentioned before, these men have evolved into the business aspect and have very little direct dealings with street gangs and instead utilize buffers who are aware of their affilitation. Jimmy “Rube” Soto and Mike “Boo Boo” Moreno (just Google them) were based in Fresno/Visalia/Sanger area when they got caught up in federal RICO indictment with a Mexican cartel and Florencia 13 gang members. As for Fast Freddy Montoya, who lived in Antioch, CA, but was from Hayward, just Google him with these three names and you can read up. By the way, his padrino (sponsor) was a New Mexican by the name of Gilbert “Gil” Santistevan, an EME member since the 70’s. This post is getting too long so I’ll continue on another page/post. Later, Silent. Razorman55

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 14th, 2014, 12:55 pm

POST 2 of 2 to Silentwssj

The one thing you learn about working the EME and NF gangs is that “rules are made to be broken,” especially by their own kind. I’m sure by reading “Boxer” Mendoza’s book you can see the NF was just as bad with internal politicking as EME. Their Norteno and Sureno subordinates were totally expendable at the whim of any Big Homie at any time for any reason. This is why the SNY yards are filled beyond capacity. So rules are meaningless unless they are enforced and the only rules I see are survival rules as their minor league players wish to stay alive. The NF and EME see them as a meal ticket and a control thing. In prison there are rules that ALL inmates are aware of. For example, you don’t need a rule to spell out the consequences for being a snitch, coward, baby rapist, homosexual, etc. but there are different consequences that befall these people and these rules should already be understood. When an enemy inmate is in the “air space” of a rival, common sense tells people what they need to do and you don’t need a written rule to remind you what should be done. I believe, in the Norteno and Sureno world, most of these inmates DO NOT want to fight other fellow Hispanic inmates but are left with no choice and it’s RULES from the Big Boys that keep them instilled with fear and motivation (whichever works for the Big Homies) to maintain the pot stirred. Silent, in all seriousness, tell me what you believe an NF Constitution accomplishes for their members? I can tell you this much: We have confiscated more documented evidence over decades from NF members who keep written constitutions, membership rosters, hit lists, etc. than any other prison gang. If I were instituting any rules for a prison gang, I would be telling them, “If you get caught with anything written down, you’re in deep doo-doo.” The EME is almost just as bad but they don’t have drawn out Constitutions and conduct their business in a very organized manner utilizing loyal Surenos and Senoras. Nevertheless, we have confiscated membership and hit lists from them as well which works against them in many cases. We get much information from their dropouts and that works for us much better. Both groups have produced a host of good dropouts and you will read more of this in a few of the upcoming books coming out in the spring and summer, titles to be announced on this Blog first and I will address them to you as they are ready.

You don’t have a monopoly when it comes to being disrespected by southerners and I think you simply fell into the North-South thing because of your demographics. As stated before, there were many Nor Cal EME members and associates of theirs. The Shoe War was the first incident that began the separation process with NF putting out their propaganda and recruiting mostly from the NorCal inmate base which included San Jose. With EME inmates in lockdown units, a large contingent of Surenos spearheaded by “Mundo” Mendoza and guys like “Joker” Mendoza (the same Joker who later became NF), created problems at S.Q. and the War of 1972 was kicked off by EME throughout the system. These Surenos countered with their propaganda of “farmers” and “sod busters,” etc. and the rest is history. Future generations would be affected including you, and other Nortenos and Surenos who were likewise “disrespected” by the other side, became actively affected. Absolutely, a man is a man, but in war “all is fair,” as they say.

More importantly from what I see, you did wake up and I am proud of you for overcoming. People like yourself are what role models are made of, if you ask me. Speaking of God, just Google “Big D” (Donald Garcia) and Ernest “Kilroy” Roybal, both ex-EME, and you will go to a Christian web site where other former AB and NF prison gang members talk about their personal conversions! Unless you have already seen these, you will be blown away. There is also Art “Conejo” Blajos (EME) and Fred Mendrin (AB). Good stuff. I did read John “Boxer” Mendoza’s book autobiography and it was very enjoyable, especially his personal experiences. The history section was weak but better than Gratton’s book by far! He didn’t pull many punches, did he? You must be thankful you never took the plunge even though you were what they call “material!” Good for you and now you have a New Life and sitting on top of the world.

I’ll drink to that, Silent.

Razorman55

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 17th, 2014, 7:37 pm

Hey there Razorman! Good post, real good post! My opinion of these New Mexico gangs is that they wanted to be a part of the bigger California gangs at first, but later split apart once they got their feet on the ground. No one wants to be told what to do and especially by people 2 states over! SNM did not start until the 80's so they are very much new kids on the block! Truth be told SNM and EME were close allies in the beginning because SNM modeled themselves after the EME. We all know that the EME thinks of itself as second to none and this is where their problems arise! New Mexico is a more affordable place to live and a lot of people from California have roots here such as myself. This is leading to a massive migration of both Nortenos and especially Surenos out here. Right now the Surenos are getting pretty deep in the streets and the system over here. Their real agenda is control and domination of the drug market wherever they go. This definitely leads to conflict. Non of these NM gang members are tripping on us Nortenos at all. They absolutely hate Surenos! Why because just like in Northern California, they think that they can come into NM and take over. It is funny to me.

The way I understand the EME being in Northern California is that they have always been there! Before there ever was a north-south conflict the had already set up shop there. What really intersts me is that most of the NF's founding fathers were from LA varrios. I would like to hear more about how they got cleared out of southern California. From my understanding there were even neighborhoods that were NF backed. Chino Sinners and Pomona 12th street to name a few. Also the NF had members from major LA street gangs. Maravilla, Clanton 14, etc. I would like to hear more about how all this fizzled out for them. Supposedly the NF had a fully functioning San Diego regiment at one time. I have a good guess what went wrong. I think that when the whole "Babo" Sosa thing exploded in the NFs face they were weakened. They had to rewrite their constitution. Also, the original Rico indictment to hit them was right around this time. In my opinion they were internally weakened during this era pretty badly. Nobody knew who they could trust and they had to do some serious house cleaning.This is the same time period when Fresno broke off as well. I am sure that the few LA gangs that had any allegiance to them read the tea leaves of the time and switched it up! It does shock me though how a group could just simply switch. To me that would seem sacrilegious and an unforgivable offense.

As far as what the NF constitution does for any members. To me it is basically a blueprint for how to transfer power and delegate it properly according to rank. Of course there is the money part with the establishment of "Banks"! The main part that gets used is "An automatic death sentence is reserved for any member that turns coward, traitor, or deserter". LOL, fear keeps people in line big time! I guess the thing that stands out to me is that they have a hierarchy. Not all members are equal. Those at the top feed off and control those at the bottom. I do not view the EME like this. They are in theory at least equal. I am sure that they must have individuals who hold more clout though. In "Boxers" book "the NF Boxer" he does a good job of explaining how the generals blatantly defied the constitution. I found that pretty Interesting. Anyone giving serious thought to joining the ranks should read that part. Overall I thought it was a pretty good book. He definitely skimped on the history part and his version of the constitution was incomplete. I found the story to be intense and personal though. Honestly for me it was a way to keep up with people that I knew a log time ago. He talked about a few people that I once knew. Also it was a reminder that I made some real good choices with my life. It might have had a bad start but it turned out ok in the end. Thanks for the encouraging words Razorman! It means a lot to me. Believe me changing my life was not easy. It is still a work in progress today. One step at a time and one day at a time is how I do it! I have been truly blessed with a loving and understanding family. I am not sure if I would be standing here today if they did not help me out. Total abstinence from all drugs also helps to. There is no way I would be where I am now if I were not clean! I can not forget God as well, it is only by his grace that I live today! I will check out the sites that you mentioned, and no I was not aware of them. I recently purchased Big "D's" book, I have yet to read it though. It is coming soon. Keep me abreast of any other books soon to be released! Peace be with you, Silent!

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby andrew » February 17th, 2014, 8:23 pm

how active do you think MM is outside of CA? i know they dont really call shots here......but we have a huge prison industry and have tons of Cali inmates out here over last 10yrs or so.....im sure they control their own people inside and maybe some colorado sureno copycats......but no way are they running shit

but i do hear they are active in NM and AZ and TX and NV and Utah to the point where they are a big factor in the pen

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 17th, 2014, 9:03 pm

I could not say as I am totally inactive at this point! I do know this though, there are quite a few Sureno gangs here in New Mexico, which I am sure that you already know about Andrew. I run across members all the time. As far as them being real or sponsored by EME members I could not say. I do know that there are what I would call copycat Sureno gangs out here. WSL is one that comes to mind. TCK is another! I worked with a dude from Echo Park, he is from here though. He had no idea that he was supposed to be a sureno! LOL, he would always say I am from ExP. I have also come across many true blue Surenos out here straight from LA. I am sure that you heard about Lennox 13 coming out here and taking over the "War Zone". Albuquerque has a web site up listing all the gangs here. When I looked over the list I came to a few conclusions. A lot of them have 13 after their name but these same groups are from New Mexico. Take Barelas or cinco puntos for example. They are definitely NM gangs yet they are using 13 after their name. It makes me wonder to be honest. Are they copycat emulators? Are they real or at least started off by a real southerner, "I doubt in most cases" or does 13 mean something else to them out here? Razorman any thoughts or information?

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby andrew » February 17th, 2014, 11:26 pm

naw....didnt know too much about the NM gang scene at all....

looks like burque has lots of tag-banger activity in the summer

and i see more "cholo" looking types in NM for sure than in CO so i assume they are surenos or copycat surenos...im sure some are homegrown

when i was in cuba 20ys ago there was some dumb gang called the "cubano crips"....real smalltown wannabe shit

navajo rez has lots of cholo types too...the graffiti i saw seems like there are cholo gangs and copycat blood/crip stuff as well as native pride gangs....that was 10yrs ago i dont know whats up now

lots of motorcycle clubs

i heard of MM being active there but i dont know if that was just wino talk or not........i know NM has alot of CA transplants so i dont know, im not sure if they have a big prison industry like CO because i know many NM prisoners are locked up in CO

does the Eme recognize some of these small copycat sureno gangs? if so thats what it would all boil down to......NM seems to welcome Cali people more than we do here

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 18th, 2014, 5:42 am

Hey Andrew! When I was in Arizona they had graffiti from Crips-Bloods-Norteno-Sureno-Disciples! I have worked with a couple rolling sixties Navajo Crips. That really tripped me out! RSC seems to be real big with them. I asked them who do they funk with and they said mostly northsiders? That also tripped me out. We have a loose alliance with each other in CA. We really do not funk with Crips in SJ. Yes there is the color issue but that is a black gang thing, totally different from us. I have also met Colonial Watts Wiggins Bloods out here who are Natives! They seem real small though.

As far as EME out here goes, remember there are different EME's out in other states. CA, EME is real small and selective. Most of them are in prison. There are probably only a few hundred legit ones in existence. Arizona has 2 different versions of the EME. They hate each other to. Only the old version is legit. The New is not. The new has more members by far. Texas has an EME as well. MY understanding id that the Texas EME especially is very big and not selective at all, so you will see those dudes everywhere. I don't think they are even sanctioned officially either. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are groups springing up all over that call themselves EME, but are they real, I doubt it.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 20th, 2014, 12:01 am

(((They are definitely NM gangs yet they are using 13 after their name. It makes me wonder to be honest. Are they copycat emulators? Are they real or at least started off by a real southerner, "I doubt in most cases" or does 13 mean something else to them out here?)))

The vast majority of Surenos outside of California are emulators for sure. They fly the Sureno 13 flag because they either saw the movie "American Me," too many episodes of Gangland, or met someone from L.A. who moved into their area from Cali. Many out-of-state gangs meet a Sureno (or a Norteno) from California and they think they've met King Kong or something but they haven't even met a made EME member (and probably never will). The common meeting ground for all the large prison gangs in the U.S. is the Federal prison system. At last count there were over 20 EME members in ADX doing life (and NEVER getting out) and this number will be rising soon. At least half of these are men who have been in prison for over 20 years and some, like "Champ" Reynoso and "Black" Segura, have been in for over 35 years!

This is where, unless a certain prison has been designated off limits to Surenos, the Sureno inmates pretty much represent the bulk of the general population and they do the EME's bidding, like in the Cali Prisons. These Surenos report directly to a "Big Homie" (EME member) and there is a very large influx of Surenos from SoCal entering their system from these huge RICO indictments against Florencia 13 (twice), Hawaian Gardens, Azusa, Orange County (twice), San Diego, Oxnard and many more where there is at least one EME that was responsible for these gang members' territories.
As they meet the few emulators that enter the Federal system, they pretty much conduct a networking in which either these Sureno copycats decide to "buy into" the bigger picture, establish drug ties, then parole to their state of origin and begin a Program in their region with their newly found contacts who they now are kicking back to via an outside faciliatator or go between.

There is a status attached to being connected with a prison gang be it EME, NF, AB, BGF, Latin Kings or whatever gang is notorous to these guys. Helluva lifestyle to choose if you ask me. RICO is being used at every turn against the organized street gangs in L.A. and this means, if convicted, many of these people will never get out. Life is life in the Feds.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby razorman55 » February 20th, 2014, 12:19 am

Hello Silent ……………. Yes, I think everyone in the country recognizes that fact, that a local gang anywhere in the U.S. doesn’t like someone from out of state calling their shots, especially when it comes to local gang politics. That’s human nature everywhere on a street level. EME has been elevated pretty much everywhere as 2nd to none because they were the first prison gang in the U.S. and everyone, with varying ideologies, patterned themselves after them. When the NF formed, they not only formed to repel EME oppression, they became a “strain of the EME cancer.” Today, when you look at the Surenos and Nortenos (I call them the minor leaguers using a baseball analogy), they are yet another “strain” of this disease. Some areas are infected worse than others. Oklahoma City in the 1980’s had some families from Compton migrate there to escape the madness in L.A. and eventually these young men could not identify with the locals and today it’s out of control. Check the following Gangland link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5JLn-8z ... tube_gdata I know Gangland likes to over sensationalize but you can read between the rhetoric and see for yourself. In their instance, they do have identified EME members (in the Feds) who are directly involved in organizing and taxing these groups in their state and federal facilities. Other states are experiencing the same problems and California prison and street experts are involved in these areas with an extensive training to assist other states in the identification and understanding of these groups and their original ideology. The NF founding fathers were “John John” Valdez from Little Valley (East L.A.), Bruce “Huero” Morgan from Clanton 14 (West L.A.), Gonzalo “Chalo” Hernandez (Bakersfield), Freddie Gonzales (San Diego) and Juan Valdez from Bassett (L.A.), often confused with John John Valdez. As you can see, none of these original members were Nortenos. Even their next two highly placed members, Robert “Babo” Sosa (Santa Barbara) and Joe “Death Row” Gonzales (Oxnard) were So Cal gang members. There was “Tarzan” Castaneda (Pomona) and Manuel “Menito” Romero (Hoyo Maravilla) and Danny Loza (Chino), Alfred “Pansas” Lopez (Little Valley) and others with ties to SoCal Street gangs. When the S.Q. Latino inmates rebelled against the EME’s oppression in 1968 (Shoe War), it was for a good reason. (This is a rerun): But within a few years L.A. inmates, who identified more with EME, began to support them and you had TWO lines of propaganda going on: NF preached their program and their takers were mostly northern Cal inmates; Mundo and his L.A. Sureno group countered with theirs and things became very polarized. So much that like a tidal wave, even the street gangs that were somewhat loyal to some NF players (Pomona, San Diego, Oxnard, etc.) went anti-Norteno and anti-NF and became pro-EME. Maravilla had a better chance (than the above mentioned gangs sympathetic to their gang reps) of resisting EME’s advances but remember, the L.A. County Jail system was solidly controlled by EME so anyone even resembling an opposing face would have an entire jail of pro-EME inmates to deal with). You are right about one thing: Most gang members, it they want to live, would read the tea leaves, check which way the wind was blowing, and go in that direction. The prison gangs with a hierarchy are easier to bring down than those who have no formal structure. The problem with the generals, as Boxer Mendoza describes so well is that the power (and the drugs) goes to their head and you know the rest. On the flip side of that coin, Silent, were places like San Jose (who had 2 EME older members), Sacramento, Fresno, Hayward, San Francisco and other Nor Cal cities, but once the North vs. South was polarized for good (after the killing of Cheyenne Cadena), the Norteno gang members went pro-NF and anti EME/Sureno. It as strictly a demographics thing, much like New Mexico or any other state or region identifying with something more local. EME maintained a foothold for drug distribution but did not attempt to exert control over street gangs as they have in So Cal because they knew it would only mean war and would interfere with business so …. While other Sureno flag wavers there conduct gang warfare against Nortenos, EME doesn’t really have much of a role in that because they’re conducting business.
Talk later, Silent. Time to hit SUBMIT and turn in

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 23rd, 2014, 7:23 pm

Hey there Razorman! I see they still got you on that leash! I check my posts everyday and I didn't notice this one until today. It is refreshing to have you here. You bring a different perspective to this forum. All of us are current or former gang members. You have a whole different incite into all of this with your LE background. I am sure that you have access to things that the rest of us can only dream about, like debrief reports. I would love to read some of that stuff but I am sure it is all classified!

I would love it if someone could do a book or at least a chapter on how the NF lost all ground in SO-CAL. I would have thought that there would be some activity down there considering all the main original players came from there. I still cant get over how these gangs just switched it up without feeling any heat. Gabe Morales said that the Chino Sinners were actively backing up the NF well into the 80's. Marcus "Tarzan" Casteneda, from Pomona 12th st Sharkies is NF! I think he is still active today! Gabe Morales said they did not cross over to being Surenos until 1980! I could have sworn that Fernie Wolf was EME and became NF! Wow how come they don't put his story out. I am sure that he is the only man in history to have accomplished that. He would be a treasure trove of knowledge. Anyways, I still cant get over how these groups can just switch it up. Maybe that is the EME's secret to success. They are willing to forgive past sins if it makes them more powerful. I read somewhere that the Bulldogs are now programing under the NF in the BOP. Can you confirm this? I cant imagine that. I know them dudes and they are not forgiving! Have you ever read a "Bad News List", there are literally hundreds of names on there. We used to have an inside joke that whoever got convicted of ordering all of those hits would go down as the worst serial killer in history!

As far as these out of state gangs go, they are emulators for sure. Some of them do have ties though. Lennox 13 made some serious noise out here in NM! They took over a seedy part of Albuquerque called the war zone. I know that they are the real deal. Most are not though. I have definitely heard about them boys claiming Oklas! My aunt lives over there and I visit her sometimes. It is funny because to me because Oklahoma seems like "Leave it to Beaver" land to me. OKC definitely has some rough parts though. It is weird that all of this is spreading so far now. Oklahoma is very white, Midwestern, bible belt! It just does not seem real that they can be banging SUR out there! I was driving down the street the other day in my area. I came by this guy walking on the highway with a huge Huelga Bird tattoed across his back and a red rag hanging out of his back pocket! I couldn't believe it. Last week at the grocery store I came across a guy with Northside tattooed across his neck. I have seen a few guys with X4 tattooed on there arms out here. It is spreading and fast! I live a little outside of the city. You wouldn't expect to see all of this out in the country, but you do. I have also come across numerous Nortenos straight from Cali out here. Nortenos already have some full blown established hoods up in Albuquerque. I wonder if New Mexico is about to see violence similar to California? Albuquerque already has a much higher murder rate. It is half the size of San Jose and has double the number of murders! I can only imagine if they really kick it off like they do back home. This state will be a mess!

When are them books coming out? I need a good read! Take care and keep in touch! God Bless you and yours Razorman! I enjoy our little discussions

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby RuthlessCray » February 23rd, 2014, 9:13 pm

silentwssj wrote:Hey there Razorman! I see they still got you on that leash! I check my posts everyday and I didn't notice this one until today. It is refreshing to have you here. You bring a different perspective to this forum. All of us are current or former gang members. You have a whole different incite into all of this with your LE background. I am sure that you have access to things that the rest of us can only dream about, like debrief reports. I would love to read some of that stuff but I am sure it is all classified!

I would love it if someone could do a book or at least a chapter on how the NF lost all ground in SO-CAL. I would have thought that there would be some activity down there considering all the main original players came from there. I still cant get over how these gangs just switched it up without feeling any heat. Gabe Morales said that the Chino Sinners were actively backing up the NF well into the 80's. Marcus "Tarzan" Casteneda, from Pomona 12th st Sharkies is NF! I think he is still active today! Gabe Morales said they did not cross over to being Surenos until 1980! I could have sworn that Fernie Wolf was EME and became NF! Wow how come they don't put his story out. I am sure that he is the only man in history to have accomplished that. He would be a treasure trove of knowledge. Anyways, I still cant get over how these groups can just switch it up. Maybe that is the EME's secret to success. They are willing to forgive past sins if it makes them more powerful. I read somewhere that the Bulldogs are now programing under the NF in the BOP. Can you confirm this? I cant imagine that. I know them dudes and they are not forgiving! Have you ever read a "Bad News List", there are literally hundreds of names on there. We used to have an inside joke that whoever got convicted of ordering all of those hits would go down as the worst serial killer in history!

As far as these out of state gangs go, they are emulators for sure. Some of them do have ties though. Lennox 13 made some serious noise out here in NM! They took over a seedy part of Albuquerque called the war zone. I know that they are the real deal. Most are not though. I have definitely heard about them boys claiming Oklas! My aunt lives over there and I visit her sometimes. It is funny because to me because Oklahoma seems like "Leave it to Beaver" land to me. OKC definitely has some rough parts though. It is weird that all of this is spreading so far now. Oklahoma is very white, Midwestern, bible belt! It just does not seem real that they can be banging SUR out there! I was driving down the street the other day in my area. I came by this guy walking on the highway with a huge Huelga Bird tattoed across his back and a red rag hanging out of his back pocket! I couldn't believe it. Last week at the grocery store I came across a guy with Northside tattooed across his neck. I have seen a few guys with X4 tattooed on there arms out here. It is spreading and fast! I live a little outside of the city. You wouldn't expect to see all of this out in the country, but you do. I have also come across numerous Nortenos straight from Cali out here. Nortenos already have some full blown established hoods up in Albuquerque. I wonder if New Mexico is about to see violence similar to California? Albuquerque already has a much higher murder rate. It is half the size of San Jose and has double the number of murders! I can only imagine if they really kick it off like they do back home. This state will be a mess!

When are them books coming out? I need a good read! Take care and keep in touch! God Bless you and yours Razorman! I enjoy our little discussions


That's interesting about Chino Sinners, I have heard about that before too. I wonder if them being worst enemies to Ontario Black Angels, a hood known for having a lot of Eme members (at least disproportionately), both then and now had something to do with them backing up NF for so long. on the other hand, Chino Sinners also seems to have had a lot of Eme members too, and i think that was the case for some of the other hoods mentioned. For example, Bassett had a member in NF but also a member in Eme..and as for as I know, never switched up..they were always on the Sureno side.

MMRbkaRudog
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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » February 24th, 2014, 4:49 pm

I've wondered about some of those varrios pasts, like for some reason I thought Newhall was in the norte and I looked it up on the map to see that it's down south. Maybe I just got mixed up with something else, but I've been to quite a few southern towns. My Mom lived in Chino in the 70's and she said it was a farming community. I'm sure there's still some farming going on there, but check out this page:
http://artfromthestreets.blogspot.com/2 ... nners.html
Hardcore net banging going on there, but here's some quotes that stood out to me:
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Body baggin fuckers since the fifties!!! Chino Sinners mother fuckers!!! And fuck you all you northern cali produce pickers. Fuck you lame ass farmers. Don't quit your jobs! I like my salads!!! And I like your wetback dads sellin that corn in the streets. Leaf blowin fuckers! DIE!!! Fuck you san hoe cacamento frisco butt fuckers. Talking shit but always sitting on your hands mother fuckers!!!!!!! Cut my grass bitch!!!
3:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hate to bring up the past youngster but stop barking that tough shit.Back in the days your clica was flying red.I know it got cleaned up but net banging is for sod busters and you gotta rep the SUR proper.And the same goes for the Hillbilly Town DT boy.Behave like men and respect the "BLUE".Stop acting like a couple of busters. Rivaside County
3:22 PM

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby silentwssj » February 24th, 2014, 6:01 pm

LOL! Them comments are horrible! I guess maybe they did face some repercussions for switching it up. I still cant believe that the EME took them back? It boggles my mind! Honestly things seem to run differently down south. Up North most Varrios get along and concentrate on Surenos together. Nortenos are basically one big gang now. Down South most Varrios don't get along but they do pay their taxes to what ever EME member has got his hooks into them! Them comments don't make a lot of sense to me. Bakersfield is considered southern territory, so are those Surenos, Leaf blowing, fruit pickers? They definitely come from the Central Valley! "You cant be applying that only to Nortenos" They both come from the same place! San Jo, Is where I am from. It is the 10th largest city in the USA! I assure that there are no farms there. It is Norte all the way! Some of these guys don't even know what they are talking about. Yes the Norte has a lot of Farmland but it also has a lot of cities. The Sur has a lot of farmland to. Kern county, Imperial Valley! Come on hypocrites! Lets keep it real! Interesting Link Rudog! I never was aware of that site.

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Re: Mexican mafia the Gang of Gangs

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » February 24th, 2014, 7:52 pm

silentwssj wrote:LOL! Them comments are horrible! I guess maybe they did face some repercussions for switching it up. I still cant believe that the EME took them back? It boggles my mind! Honestly things seem to run differently down south. Up North most Varrios get along and concentrate on Surenos together. Nortenos are basically one big gang now. Down South most Varrios don't get along but they do pay their taxes to what ever EME member has got his hooks into them! Them comments don't make a lot of sense to me. Bakersfield is considered southern territory, so are those Surenos, Leaf blowing, fruit pickers? They definitely come from the Central Valley! "You cant be applying that only to Nortenos" They both come from the same place! San Jo, Is where I am from. It is the 10th largest city in the USA! I assure that there are no farms there. It is Norte all the way! Some of these guys don't even know what they are talking about. Yes the Norte has a lot of Farmland but it also has a lot of cities. The Sur has a lot of farmland to. Kern county, Imperial Valley! Come on hypocrites! Lets keep it real! Interesting Link Rudog! I never was aware of that site.

They can definitely be hypocrites and I honestly think a lot of them don't care that some surenos used to claim red. I think Bakersfield is kind of where the split was n I heard some n's switched up over there to. I believe one of the reasons this happened was that la eme wanted to start really setting the boundaries on what so cal is, so they wanted every varrio in so cal to be surenos no matter what.

Still lame to hear about fools switching up and they want to keep it real down there supposedly, but to me the sur has been more n more phony throughout the years. I'm not trying to sound like a net banger n I'm not saying all surenos think the same, but this shit doesn't even feel like south vs. north anymore. It may feel like it's all about the south down there, but just look at all the other bs they have pulled throughout the years for power. They have to be the biggest hypocrites in gang history.


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