Quran and Modern Science, Compatible or not????

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Quran and Modern Science, Compatible or not????

Unread post by frozen fire » January 9th, 2007, 7:18 am

1. INTRODUCTION
Ever since the dawn of human life on this planet, Man has always tried to understand Nature, his own place in the scheme of Creation and the purpose of Life itself. In this quest for Truth, spanning many centuries and diverse civilizations, organized religion has shaped human life and, to a large extent, has determined the course of history. While some religions have been based on written text, claimed by their followers to be divinely inspired, others have relied solely on human experience.

Al-Qur’an, the main source of the Islamic faith, is a book believed by its followers, the Muslims, to be completely of Divine origin. Muslims also believe that it contains guidance for all humankind. Since the message of the Qur’an is believed to be for all times, it should be relevant to every age. But does the Qur’an pass this test?

There was a time, in the history of world civilization, when ‘miracles’, or what were perceived to be miracles, took precedence over human reason and logic. Of course, the normal defination of ‘miracle’ is simply, anything that takes place out of the normal course of life and for which humankind has no explanation.

A book, claiming to be of Divine origin, is in effect, claiming to be a miracle. Such a claim should be easily verifiable in any age, according to the standards of that age. Muslims believe, that the Qur’an is the last and final revelation of God, the miracle of miracles, revealed as a mercy to mankind. Let us therefore investigate the veracity of this belief.


THE CHALLENGE OF THE QUR’AN
Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures. The world also witnessed an age when literature
and poetry occupied pride of position, similar to that now enjoyed by science and technology.

Even non-Muslim scholars agree that the Qur’an is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce the likes of it:

A modern rational man, however, would never accept a religious scripture which says, in the best possible poetic language, that the world is flat. This is because we live in an age, where human reason, logic and science
are given primacy. Not many would accept the Qur’an’s extraordinarily beautiful language, as proof of its Divine origin. Any scripture claiming to be a divine revelation must also be acceptable on the strength of its own reason and logic.
According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Albert Einstein, “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.” Let us therefore study the Qur’an, and analyze whether the Qur’an and Modern Science are compatible or incompatible?

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Unread post by frozen fire » January 9th, 2007, 7:48 am

1. ASTRONOMY
CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
‘THE BIG BANG’

The creation of the universe is explained by astrophysicists as a widely accepted phenomenon, popularly known as ‘The Big Bang’. It is supported
by observational and experimental data gathered by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades. According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there
was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon,
etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it happening by ‘chance’ is nil.

The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding
the origin of the universe:
“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

2. INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE
CREATION OF GALAXIES

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

3. SHAPE OF THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL

In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.
Consider the following Qur’anic verse regarding the alternation of day and night:

“Seest thou not that Allah
merges Night into Day
and He merges Day into Night?”
[Al-Qur’an 31:29]

Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:

“He created the heavens and
the earth in true (proportions):
He makes the Night
overlap the Day,
and the Day
overlap the Night.”
[Al-Qur’an 39:5]

The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning ‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.

The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical, i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

“And the earth, moreover,
hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

4. MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT
It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years

ago in the following verse:
“Blessed is He Who made
Constellations in the skies,
and placed therein a Lamp
and a Moon giving light.”

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon
mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

“It is He who made the sun
to be a shining glory
and the moon to be a light
(of beauty).”
“See ye not
how Allah has created
the seven heavens
one above another,
“And made the moon
a light in their midst,
and made the sun
as a (Glorious) Lamp?”
[Al-Qur’an 71:15-16]

The Glorious Qur'an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

5.THE SUN ROTATES
For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept
of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it.

In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day.

After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from Geography books during my school days.

“It is He Who created
the Night and the Day,
and the sun and the moon:
All (the celestial bodies)
swim along, each in its
rounded course.”
[Al-Qur’an 21:33]

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon . This word is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that
comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming.

Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space.
6.
“It is not permitted
to the Sun to catch up the Moon,
nor can the Night outstrip the Day:
Each (just) swims along
in (its own) orbit
(according to Law).”
[Al-Qur’an 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the
Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.

7.THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH

The light of the sun is due to a chemical process on its surface that has been taking place continuously for the past five billion years. It will come to an end at some point of time in the future, when the sun will be totally extinguished, leading to extinction of all life on earth. Regarding the impermanence of the sun’s existence, the Qur’an says:

“And the Sun runs its course
for a period determined
for it; that is
the decree of (Him)
the exalted in Might,
the All-Knowing.”
[Al-Qur’an 36:38]

The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Qur’an says that the sun runs towards a determined place, and will do so only up to a pre-determined period of time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

8.INTERSTELLAR MATTER

Space outside organized astronomical systems was earlier assumed to be a vacuum. Astrophysicists later discovered the presence of bridges of matter in this interstellar space. These bridges of matter are called plasma, and consist of completely ionized gas containing equal number of free electrons and positive ions. Plasma is sometimes called the fourth
state of matter (besides the three known states viz. solid, liquid and gas). The Qur’an refers to the presence of this interstellar material in the following verse:

“He Who created the heavens
and the earth and all
that is between.”
[Al-Qur’an 25:59]

It would be ridiculous for anyone to even suggest that the presence of interstellar galactic material was known 1400 years ago!

9. THE EXPANDING UNIVERSE

In 1925, American astronomer Edwin Hubble, provided observational evidence that all galaxies are moving away from one another, which implies that the universe is expanding. The expansion of the universe is now an established scientific fact. This is what the Qur’an says regarding the nature of the universe:

“With power and skill
did We construct
the Firmament:
For it is We Who create
the vastness of Space.”
[Al-Qur’an 51:47]

The Arabic word musioon is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe.

One of the greatest astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in his book, ‘A Brief History of Time’, says, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century.” The Qur’an mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope!

Some may say that the presence of astronomical facts in the Qur’an is not surprising since the Arabs were advanced in the field of astronomy. They are correct in acknowledging the advancement of the Arabs in the field of astronomy. However they fail to realize that the Qur’an was revealed centuries before the Arabs excelled in astronomy. Moreover many of the scientific facts mentioned above, such as the origin of the universe with a Big Bang, were not known to the Arabs even at the peak of their
scientific advancement. The scientific facts mentioned in the Qur’an are therefore not due to the Arabs’ advancement in astronomy. Indeed, the reverse is true: they advanced in astronomy, because astronomy occupies a place in the Qur’an.

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Unread post by frozen fire » January 9th, 2007, 7:56 am

This is not even half of the scientific facts present in the quran, this only covers the astronomical facts. Pysics, hydrology (ie. water cycle, evaporation), geology (ie mountains, plates) , oceonolgy , boilogy, medicine, physiologyY , embryology and much more are yet to come.

But i want to post it bit by bit, so readers can digest it properly.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 9th, 2007, 11:06 am

What i also found interesting, that it also prophecied in the Quran, that once the tribes of Israel were driven out of power, they would come back some time in the future and be the hegemonial power again.

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Unread post by black » January 9th, 2007, 11:58 am

frozen fire wrote:This is not even half of the scientific facts present in the quran, this only covers the astronomical facts. Pysics, hydrology (ie. water cycle, evaporation), geology (ie mountains, plates) , oceonolgy , boilogy, medicine, physiologyY , embryology and much more are yet to come.
all religions have this hidden in their scriptures.

that's why i love this qoute.

"In order to know god you have to know the universe" Dogon tribe.

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Unread post by frozen fire » January 9th, 2007, 12:15 pm

^^^^ but the majority if not all has been, found by science recently, not 1400 years ago, when there wasn't any technology, and this information came from a man who was not learnt, who could not read nor write!

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Unread post by black » January 10th, 2007, 4:25 am

you black?
frozen fire wrote:^^^^ but the majority if not all has been, found by science recently
you can't find stuff like that because it all ways existed and it will always exist. people just improve on it. sometimes for the good sometimes for the worse.
frozen fire wrote: not 1400 years ago, when there wasn't any technology
the khemets, kush, mali, sumerians/babylonians(originally black), elamites, ethiopians (which include the sabeans and naga), olmecs(black) and mesoamericas all where highly advanced cultures that had these things locked away in their scriptures.

their are plenty of books out that give proof that these cultures knew about the stuff you listed, bacterial genetics, space physics, quantum physics, and molecular biology, including recent research in cosmology related to string theory, black hole theory and dark energy.

one book that gives light to this is Biosemiotics in Ancient Egyptian Texts: The Key to Long-Lost Signs Found in Myth, Religion, Psychology, Art and Literature.

some other authors are Giorgio de Santillana and Levi-Strauss among many others.

frozen fire wrote:and this information came from a man who was not learnt, who could not read nor write!
you talking about mohammed? come on now this information was around way before him. mohammed didn't write the qu'ran an ethiopian philospher named hadzart bilal ibn rahbab did. and majority of the the information in the bible, qu'ran and bible comes from either chaldean cosmology/astronomy or egyptian(khemet) mystery school initiates.

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Unread post by frozen fire » January 10th, 2007, 6:18 am

the khemets, kush, mali, sumerians/babylonians(originally black), elamites, ethiopians (which include the sabeans and naga), olmecs(black) and mesoamericas all where highly advanced cultures that had these things locked away in their scriptures.
thats real intresting...but can you bring proof, ill look into it myself but if you already got information, id like to see it.

mohammed didn't write the qu'ran an ethiopian philospher named hadzart bilal ibn rahbab did
No your right he didnt (it was written after his death), but it is his words (revealed to him by God of course), and only his words, its not many books put into one like the bible and the Quran has not been tampered with till this day!
information in the bible, qu'ran and bible comes from either chaldean cosmology/astronomy or egyptian(khemet) mystery school initiates.
Maybe because Islam has existed long before Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Thats why there are some similarties, between the bible, the torah and The holy Quran, and maybe other teachings as well?
The prophet did say that he came to finish the teachings of Islam! and that he was not the founder of islam, this is why its incorrect to call Islam, Muhammedan or Muhammedism.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 10th, 2007, 9:38 am

black wrote: sumerians/babylonians(originally black), olmecs(black) and mesoamericas all where highly advanced cultures that had these things locked away in their scriptures.
Do you have some sources about those cultures having been black? No offense, but i seriously doubt that. Sumerians and Babylonians might have had black influence, but i dont think they were black as in sub-saharan black.
But maybe we should open a new thread for that.

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » January 10th, 2007, 10:56 am

I'm not saying that this is wrong, but I would like to point out that almost every religion is doing something similar and has been for awhile the more we get to know about our universe. Just a tweak here, paraphrase there, and some assuming and you can equal up a lot of scripture to scientific knowledge know adays. I do like this quote though:

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

Actually, ostrich eggs are pretty similar to every other birds eggs out there. Sure they're bigger, but they're still pretty oval in shape.

Depending on who you believe and what you make of history, then yes the Sumerians had an advanced knowledge of the solar system and it's workings long before anyone else. Regardless of whether or not you believe some of the more outlandish claims of Sumerian knowledge, it is some what clear that they knew the make up of the solar system and the spherical shape of earth and other planets.

I solely agree that religions have to take a good hard look at science and see how their religions can co-exist with them.

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Unread post by black » January 10th, 2007, 6:25 pm

frozen fire wrote: thats real intresting...but can you bring proof, ill look into it myself but if you already got information, id like to see it.

Biosemiotics in Ancient Egyptian Texts: The Key to Long-Lost Signs Found in Myth, Religion, Psychology, Art and Literature.

Metu Neter Vol. 2: Anuk Ausar, The Kamitic Initiation System by Ra Un Nefer Amen

the secret doctrine h.p. blavatsky

egyptian mystery schools, the chaldeans( moses and abraham were part of these societies), vedas a bunch of other stuff aswell just study ancient civilizations and sciences they basically all shared the same knowledge.

zulunation.com had some info on their before not sure if they still do haven't been on it in awhile.

frozen fire wrote: but it is his words (revealed to him by God of course), and only his words, its not many books put into one like the bible and the Quran has not been tampered with till this day!

If that's what you believe i ain't gone knock it.

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Unread post by black » January 10th, 2007, 6:34 pm

Sentenza wrote: but i seriously doubt that.
well keep it movin then.

Sentenza wrote: But maybe we should open a new thread for that.
for what? I seem to recall where you had a discussion with the brutha perongregory about the sumerians and olmecs and he showed you how they was black but you denied it. so why should i waste my time showing you something which you gone deny anyway.

Image

thom barry


Image

olmec head.

show me a mexican that looks like an olmec head.

sumerians called they selfs the black headed people, show me one white person who could call the self black headed.

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Unread post by black » January 10th, 2007, 6:38 pm

EmperorPenguin wrote: I do like this quote though:
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.
the indians have this story its called the mundane egg, egytians have it as well i thinks it's called the cosmic egg. the sumerians had it, hell even the greeks had it. but the greeks stole from egypt, i mean learned from egypt naw that's wrong to the greeks had the story first.

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » January 10th, 2007, 7:15 pm

black wrote:
EmperorPenguin wrote: I do like this quote though:
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.
the indians have this story its called the mundane egg, egytians have it as well i thinks it's called the cosmic egg. the sumerians had it, hell even the greeks had it. but the greeks stole from egypt, i mean learned from egypt naw that's wrong to the greeks had the story first.

Again, depending on who you believe, everyone stole just about all stories and "myths" from the Sumerians. :)

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Unread post by black » January 13th, 2007, 5:59 am

EmperorPenguin wrote: Again, depending on who you believe, everyone stole just about all stories and "myths" from the Sumerians. :)
i know that the sumerians were advanced but they weren't the first advanced civilization like some folks will have you to believe. the Zingh Empire(red,black and green) existed before the sumerians, khemet, nubia and kush and they have tales of flying machines and other highly advanced machinery.

the sumerians learned from khemt and kush. sumeria(sag-gi-ga) was established around or about 6,000 b.c. it maybe a little older that, but the sphinx in egypt had to be built around or prior to 10,000 b.c. water erosion found around the base of the sphinx confirms this. the last time water flooded that area was 15,000 to 10,000 b.c. so although sumeria was an advanced civilization they sure wasn't the first.

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Unread post by black » January 13th, 2007, 7:05 am

Sentenza wrote:
black wrote:but i dont think they were black as in sub-saharan black.
scientific racism Francois Bernier

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » January 13th, 2007, 10:51 am

black wrote:
EmperorPenguin wrote: Again, depending on who you believe, everyone stole just about all stories and "myths" from the Sumerians. :)
i know that the sumerians were advanced but they weren't the first advanced civilization like some folks will have you to believe. the Zingh Empire(red,black and green) existed before the sumerians, khemet, nubia and kush and they have tales of flying machines and other highly advanced machinery.

the sumerians learned from khemt and kush. sumeria(sag-gi-ga) was established around or about 6,000 b.c. it maybe a little older that, but the sphinx in egypt had to be built around or prior to 10,000 b.c. water erosion found around the base of the sphinx confirms this. the last time water flooded that area was 15,000 to 10,000 b.c. so although sumeria was an advanced civilization they sure wasn't the first.

That all comes back to who you believe. Most archeologist don't believe that's water erosion, simply wind and sand erosion. It's a matter of opinion, it seems some what obvious though that most creation stories, and the stories that follow seem to lead to one source at some point in time.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 13th, 2007, 1:09 pm

black wrote:
Sentenza wrote:
black wrote:but i dont think they were black as in sub-saharan black.
scientific racism Francois Bernier
:?: I didnt classify them as a race.

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Unread post by black » January 15th, 2007, 5:20 am

Sentenza wrote: :?: I didnt classify them as a race.
looks like you classified them to me. you said they weren't subsaharan black(what ever they fuck that means), so that means you put them in a different race. you white people classify all white people as caucasoid but when it comes to black skinned people then only american blacks and southern africans are subsaharan black. and the rest of the black skinned people in the world are a different race. psh, black is black, just like white is white.

at one time that whole area from egypt/ethiopia, across arabia, the persion gulf all the way to india and southern china was called ethiopia. many historians like herudotus, sargo and homer have said these people are of the same race. the bible refers to the ethiopians as cushites. The kings of sumeria are often refered to as the kings of cush(ethiopia). nimrod is the son of cush(ethiopia) and according to the bible he founded babylon. their are vases and sculptures from susa and babylon that have faces of black people on them. alot of iranian/iraqi legends have tales of black warriors, kings and ancestors one of them is named saam(iranian book of kings). homer's troy has an ethiopian king named memmon who is from susa. their is alot of religious stuff that islam stole from the sumerian and black sabeans. like the black ka'aba, the crescent moon, the daughters of allah. so their is plenty of evidence that show blacks were first in these areas you just have to dig deep to find it.

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Unread post by black » January 15th, 2007, 5:44 am

EmperorPenguin wrote: Most archeologist don't believe that's water erosion, simply wind and sand erosion.
well it sho ain't sand and wind erosion. fact being that if you study egyptian history you find that they were deep into astrology just like all ancient civilizations. and if you know that then you know the meaning of the sphinx. the sphinx has a head of a woman and body of a lion. its astrological interpretation is woman=virgo and lion=leo. the last time the age of virgo ended and the age of leo began was about 10 or 12,000 years ago. about the same time water last flooded the area.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 15th, 2007, 5:54 am

black wrote: looks like you classified them to me. you said they weren't subsaharan black(what ever they fu-- that means), so that means you put them in a different race. you white people classify all white people as caucasoid but when it comes to black skinned people then only american blacks and southern africans are subsaharan black. and the rest of the black skinned people in the world are a different race. psh, black is black, just like white is white.

at one time that whole area from egypt/ethiopia, across arabia, the persion gulf all the way to india and southern china was called ethiopia. many historians like herudotus, sargo and homer have said these people are of the same race. the bible refers to the ethiopians as cushites. The kings of sumeria are often refered to as the kings of cush(ethiopia). nimrod is the son of cush(ethiopia) and according to the bible he founded babylon. their are vases and sculptures from susa and babylon that have faces of black people on them. alot of iranian/iraqi legends have tales of black warriors, kings and ancestors one of them is named saam(iranian book of kings). homer's troy has an ethiopian king named memmon who is from susa. their is alot of religious stuff that islam stole from the sumerian and black sabeans. like the black ka'aba, the crescent moon, the daughters of allah. so their is plenty of evidence that show blacks were first in these areas you just have to dig deep to find it.
With sub-saharan i was referring to the dark skin colour people south of the Sahara have nowadays. It is a common term in science, when referring to black africans.
Just because i state that they have a darker skin colour than other people doesnt mean, that i think thats an attribute that makes me classify them as a race.
Honestly i dont even believe in the concept of race at all.
If you are interested here is a link to a scientist whose works i found quite enlightening.
I dont have too much time right now, but ill be back later on to respond to the rest.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 15th, 2007, 5:54 am


EmperorPenguin
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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » January 15th, 2007, 11:24 am

black wrote:
EmperorPenguin wrote: Most archeologist don't believe that's water erosion, simply wind and sand erosion.
well it sho ain't sand and wind erosion. fact being that if you study egyptian history you find that they were deep into astrology just like all ancient civilizations. and if you know that then you know the meaning of the sphinx. the sphinx has a head of a woman and body of a lion. its astrological interpretation is woman=virgo and lion=leo. the last time the age of virgo ended and the age of leo began was about 10 or 12,000 years ago. about the same time water last flooded the area.
Again, it's all about who you believe. I imagine the Riddle of the Sphinx is more complex then just a female and a lion showing it was built some 10,000 years ago. Common belief among egyptologists are that it's the face of a man (King Khafra) and the body of a lion, and that it was built sometime around 2500 BC and any erosion is from the wind and the sand. I'm not saying that's all true, I'm just saying it all comes down to who you choose to believe.

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Unread post by johnnny » January 15th, 2007, 11:34 am

isnt the spyhnx built from limestone?

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Unread post by black » January 15th, 2007, 12:55 pm

EmperorPenguin wrote: Common belief among egyptologists are that it's the face of a man (King Khafra) and the body of a lion, and that it was built sometime around 2500 BC and any erosion is from the wind and the sand.
are you serious? the sphinx ain't a man it's a woman, the head of the sphinx is isis. have you seen an old drawings of the sphinx? if you see any old drawings then you will see that the head of the sphinx is a woman. in the esneh temple in egypt they have a the zodiac painted on the ceiling, in between the signs virgo and leo is the sphinx. the head is pointed towards virgo and the tale is pointed towards leo. if it doesn't represent astrology then why would the egytians paint the sphinx on a zodiac sign in between virgo and leo?

EmperorPenguin wrote: Again, it's all about who you believe. I imagine the Riddle of the Sphinx is more complex then just a female and a lion showing it was built some 10,000 years ago.
the sphinx was built as a memorial guide to the heavens. the "circle of heavens" marks the position where the zodiac begins/virgo and ends/leo.(back to the future type shit) you have to dig deep into ancient astrology to see the meaning of the sphinx.

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » January 15th, 2007, 1:19 pm

black wrote:
EmperorPenguin wrote: Common belief among egyptologists are that it's the face of a man (King Khafra) and the body of a lion, and that it was built sometime around 2500 BC and any erosion is from the wind and the sand.
are you serious? the sphinx ain't a man it's a woman, the head of the sphinx is isis. have you seen an old drawings of the sphinx? if you see any old drawings then you will see that the head of the sphinx is a woman. in the esneh temple in egypt they have a the zodiac painted on the ceiling, in between the signs virgo and leo is the sphinx. the head is pointed towards virgo and the tale is pointed towards leo. if it doesn't represent astrology then why would the egytians paint the sphinx on a zodiac sign in between virgo and leo?

EmperorPenguin wrote: Again, it's all about who you believe. I imagine the Riddle of the Sphinx is more complex then just a female and a lion showing it was built some 10,000 years ago.
the sphinx was built as a memorial guide to the heavens. the "circle of heavens" marks the position where the zodiac begins/virgo and ends/leo.(back to the future type shit) you have to dig deep into ancient astrology to see the meaning of the sphinx.
I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I'm not saying what I wrote is true, I'm not saying what you wrote is false. I meerily stated what is common belief among egyptologists. I have my beliefs about the Sphinx (none of which I've stated) and you have yours, and scientists have theirs. I just said it's all about who you as a person choose to believe.

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Unread post by black » January 15th, 2007, 1:20 pm

Sentenza wrote: With sub-saharan i was referring to the dark skin colour people south of the Sahara have nowadays. It is a common term in science, when referring to black africans.
so subsaharan only applies to the really darkskinned people below the saharan? okay so what do you call the really darkskinned people who live above the saharan? and what do you call the really light skinned people who live below the saharan?

we have blacks below the sahara that are lighter than some of the black arabs up north. and we have some black arabs up north that are as dark as some blacks below the saharan. so what exactly is subsaharan?

black is black.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 15th, 2007, 1:28 pm

I think the distinction is more ethnically and culturally, based on the difference of arabs and the other africans.
Sub-Saharan Africa is the term used to describe those countries of the African continent that are not considered part of North Africa. Geographically, the demarcation line is the southern edge of the Sahara Desert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa

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Unread post by black » January 15th, 2007, 1:32 pm

EmperorPenguin wrote: I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I'm not saying what I wrote is true, I'm not saying what you wrote is false. I meerily stated what is common belief among egyptologists. I have my beliefs about the Sphinx (none of which I've stated) and you have yours, and scientists have theirs. I just said it's all about who you as a person choose to believe.
reread it for what if that's not what you believe what the hell you post it for? i want to here what you believe not something you just gone sit here and waste my time with.

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Unread post by black » January 16th, 2007, 4:12 pm

Sentenza wrote:I think the distinction is more ethnically and culturally, based on the difference of arabs and the other africans.
Sub-Saharan Africa is the term used to describe those countries of the African continent that are not considered part of North Africa. Geographically, the demarcation line is the southern edge of the Sahara Desert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa

that subsaharan stuff is racism, i can't believe you support that theory.

Sentenza wrote:based on the difference of arabs and the other africans.
what difference? you talking about they appereance? man i can show you some pictures of yemenis, tunisias, libyans and algerians who are all darkskinned and look just like they brothers below the saharan. i can also show you some pictures sudanese, kenyan and ethiopian people who look like arabs. well sudan is arab but you know what i mean.

black is black

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 16th, 2007, 4:26 pm

Cultural difference. You know that Arabs or lets say Muslim northern africans feel like they are different from the southern africans, even the black ones.

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Unread post by Sentenza » January 16th, 2007, 4:30 pm

I know a good amount of Northern Africans personally. They do draw a line between them and other africans, culturally.
The factor race isnt even important to most of them.

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