CHEROKEE TO EXPEL FREEDMEN PART1- PART2 FREEDMEN EXPELED

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CHEROKEE TO EXPEL FREEDMEN PART1- PART2 FREEDMEN EXPELED

Unread post by 100 » March 4th, 2007, 7:00 pm

PART1
Tribe poised to revoke membership of thousands of black ‘freedmen’


VINITA, Okla. - J.D. Baldridge, 73, has official government documents showing him to be a descendant of a full-blood Cherokee. He has memories of a youth spent among Cherokee neighbors and kin, at tribal stomp dances and hog fries. He holds on to a fair amount of Cherokee vocabulary. " Salali," Baldridge says, his face creasing into a smile at the word. "Squirrel stew. Oh, that was good."

What Baldridge, a retired Oklahoma county sheriff, also has is at least one black ancestor, a former slave of a Cherokee family. That could get Baldridge cast out of the tribe, along with thousands of others.

The 250,000-member Cherokee Nation will vote in a special election today whether to override a 141-year-old treaty and change the tribal constitution to bar "freedmen," the descendants of former tribal slaves, from being members of the sovereign nation.

Battle over identity, power
"It's a basic, inherent right to determine our own citizenry. We paid very dearly for those rights," Cherokee Principal Chief Chad Smith said in an interview last month in Oklahoma City.
But the Cherokee freedmen see the vote as less about self-determination than about discrimination and historical blinders. They see in the referendum hints of racism and a desire by some Cherokees to deny the tribe's slave-owning past.

"They know these people exist. And they're trying to push them aside, as though they were never with them," said Andra Shelton, one of Baldridge's family members. Shelton, 59, can recall her mother gossiping in fluent Cherokee when Cherokee friends and relatives visited.

People on both sides of the issue say the fight is also about tribal politics -- the freedmen at times have been at odds with the tribal leadership -- and about money.

Big money at stake
Advocates of expelling the freedmen call it a matter of safeguarding tribal resources, which include a $350 million annual budget from federal and tribal revenue, and Cherokees' share of a gambling industry that, for U.S. tribes overall, takes in $22 billion a year. The grass-roots campaign for expulsion has given heavy play to warnings that keeping freedmen in the Cherokee Nation could encourage thousands more to sign up for a slice of the tribal pie.

"Don't get taken advantage of by these people. They will suck you dry," Darren Buzzard, an advocate of expelling the freedmen, wrote last summer in a widely circulated e-mail denounced by freedmen. "Don't let black freedmen back you into a corner. PROTECT CHEROKEE CULTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN. FOR OUR DAUGHTER[S] . . . FIGHT AGAINST THE INFILTRATION."

The issue is a remnant of the "peculiar institution" of Southern slavery and a discordant note set against the ringing statements of racial solidarity often voiced by people of color.

"It's oppressed people that's oppressing people," said Verdie Triplett, 53, an outspoken freedman of the Choctaw tribe, which, like the Cherokee, once owned black slaves.

Cherokees, along with Choctaws, Chickasaws, Creeks and Seminoles, were long known as the "Five Civilized Tribes" because they adopted many of the ways of their white neighbors in the South, including the holding of black slaves.

Tribe’s slaves became citizens
Many of the Cherokees' slaves accompanied the tribe when it was expelled from its traditional lands in North Carolina and Georgia and forced to migrate in 1838 and 1839 to Indian Territory, in what is now Oklahoma. Thousands of Cherokees died during the trip, which became known as the "Trail of Tears." It is not known how many of their slaves also perished.

The tribe fought for the Confederacy. In defeat, it signed a federal treaty in 1866 committing that its slaves, who had been freed by tribal decree during the war, would be absorbed as citizens of the Cherokee Nation.

By the late 1880s, Washington started opening up tribal lands in Oklahoma to white settlers, breaking previous pledges to the tribes. As a step toward ending tribal ownership of Indian Territory, Congress initiated a new census of the "Five Civilized Tribes" -- a census known as the Dawes Commission. It is that head count that the Cherokee Nation would use to determine the eligibility of freedmen.

An inconsistent census
Past censuses of the tribes had noted both the Indian and the African ancestry of freedmen, counting those of mixed heritage as Native Americans. The Dawes Commission took a different approach.

Setting up tents in fields and at crossroads, the census takers eyeballed and interviewed those who came before them, separating them into different categories. If someone seemed to be Indian or white with Indian blood, the commission listed that person as whole or part Indian, historians say. People who the officials thought looked black were listed as freedmen, and no Indian lineage was noted, according to freedmen and historians.

"In cases of mixed freedmen and Indian parents," Kent Carter wrote in his book "The Dawes Commission," applicants were "not given credit for having any Indian blood."

Baldridge's ancestors are recorded as freedmen in the Dawes rolls. Roy Baldridge, J.D.'s son, said that for the Dawes Commission, "if you had a drop of black blood, you were black."

"That's false," said Smith, the Cherokee chief. "I think there was not a fixed policy that if you were dark, you were put on the freedmen roll."

Freedmen hold little sway in tribe
Still, whether people were listed as Indians or freedmen, they were, under the 1866 treaty, considered citizens of the Cherokee Nation. Today's vote could revoke that designation for freedmen.

The census recorded about 20,000 freedmen for the five tribes, said Angela Y. Walton-Raji, a genealogist whose research has been seminal for freedmen tracing their roots.

Descendants of those freed tribal slaves would number in the hundreds of thousands today, Walton-Raji said.

But segregation and the civil rights movement separated native members of the tribes from freedmen. Today, no more than a few thousand descendants of the slaves are officially members of the five tribes, leaving their prospects of defeating the Cherokee referendum slim. By late last month, about 2,800 had re-registered in time to vote.

"A lot of Cherokees don't know who the freedmen are," Smith said. Did he, growing up? "No."

Should have been a nonissue’
The Cherokee Nation expelled many descendants of slaves in 1983 by requiring them to show a degree of Indian blood through the Dawes rolls. A tribal court reinstated them in March 2006. That spurred today's special election, which received a go-ahead Feb. 21 when a federal judge in Washington denied the freedmen's request for an injunction to halt the balloting.

Seated around a kitchen table recently at a family home in Vinita, one of Oklahoma's first settlements founded in part by Cherokee freedmen, the Baldridges spoke with bitterness about the dispute.

"It should have been a nonissue," Roy Baldridge, 51, said of the controversy in the Cherokee Nation. Stacks of photocopied U.S. government tribal censuses, genealogies and family photos lay spread out on the table. A portrait of Martin Luther King Jr. hung in the next room.

"It makes me sad that a few have brought this out and we're in this situation," he said.

And the fight over heritage is moving beyond the Cherokee Nation. The other tribes that owned slaves, and black descendants in those tribes, are watching the vote.

In 2000, the Seminole Nation expelled freedmen but was compelled by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and federal courts to take them back. The Creek Nation has battled its freedmen in court.

Over the winter, Choctaw and Chickasaw freedmen formed their own association.

At his home in Fort Coffee, a hamlet founded by Choctaw freedmen, Triplett said he is not trying to immerse himself in his Indian heritage. "Oh, no!" he said. "I'm black!"

But a few days later he stood at Fort Coffee's Choctaw cemetery, where because of renovation a chain-link fence separates the Indian and freedman sides of the graveyard. Triplett pointed out ancestors.

Leaving, he shouted a warning to the Choctaw side: "Guess who's coming to dinner!"

PART2
Cherokees Pull Memberships of Freed Slaves
By MURRAY EVANS
AP
OKLAHOMA CITY (March 4) - Cherokee Nation members voted Saturday to revoke the tribal citizenship of an estimated 2,800 descendants of the people the Cherokee once owned as slaves.

With all 32 precincts reporting, 76.6 percent had voted in favor of an amendment to the tribal constitution that would limit citizenship to descendants of "by blood" tribe members as listed on the federal Dawes Commission's rolls from more than 100 years ago.

The commission, set up by a Congress bent on breaking up Indians' collective lands and parceling them out to tribal citizens, drew up two rolls, one listing Cherokees by blood and the other listing freedmen, a roll of blacks regardless of whether they had Indian blood.

Some opponents of the ballot question argued that attempts to remove freedmen from the tribe were motivated by racism.

"I'm very disappointed that people bought into a lot of rhetoric and falsehoods by tribal leaders," said Marilyn Vann, president of the Oklahoma City-based Descendants of Freedmen of Five Civilized Tribes.

Tribal officials said the vote was a matter of self-determination.

"The Cherokee people exercised the most basic democratic right, the right to vote," tribal Principal Chief Chad Smith said. "Their voice is clear as to who should be citizens of the Cherokee Nation. No one else has the right to make that determination.'

Smith said turnout — more than 8,700 — was higher than turnout for the tribal vote on the Cherokee Nation constitution four years ago.

"On lots of issues, when they go to identity, they become things that people pay attention to," Smith said.

The petition drive for the ballot measure followed a March 2006 ruling by the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court that said an 1866 treaty assured freedmen descendants of tribal citizenship. Since then, more than 2,000 freedmen descendants have enrolled as citizens of the tribe.

Court challenges by freedmen descendants seeking to stop the election were denied, but a federal judge left open the possibility that the case could be refiled if Cherokees voted to lift their membership rights.

Tribal spokesman Mike Miller said the period to protest the election lasts until March 12 and Cherokee courts are the proper venue for a challenge.

Vann promised a protest within the next week. "We don't accept this fraudulent election," Vann said.
Mirrors 2000 Seminole decision
A similar situation occurred in 2000 when the Seminole Nation voted to cast freedmen descendants out of its tribe, said attorney Jon Velie of Norman, an expert on Indian law who has represented freedmen descendants in previous cases.

“The United States, when posed the same situation with the Seminoles, would not recognize the election and they ultimately cut off most federal programs to the Seminoles, ” Velie said. “They also determined the Seminoles, without this relationship with the government, were not authorized to conduct gaming.”

Ultimately, the Seminole freedmen were allowed back into the tribe, Velie said.

Velie said Saturday’s vote already has hurt the tribe’s public perception.

“It’s throwback, old-school racist rhetoric, ” Velie said.

“And it’s really heartbreaking, because the Cherokees are good people and have a very diverse citizenship, ” he said.

Miller, the tribal spokesman, defended the Cherokees against charges of racism, saying that Saturday’s vote showed the tribe was open to allowing its citizens vote on whether non-Indians be allowed membership.

“I think it’s actually the opposite. To say that the Cherokee Nation is intolerant or racist ignores the fact that we have an open dialogue and have the discussion, he said.

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


To qualify for Cherokee Tribal Membership you must first qualify for a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood - (CDIB) card —

To qualify for a CDIB card, you must have a Cherokee ancestor on the Dawes Rolls.

So ... let's look at these three items in detail:



Dawes Rolls:
The Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, Cherokee Nation, are commonly known as the Dawes Commission of Final Rolls, or simply, Dawes Rolls. Simply put; the Dawes Rolls were a Census.

The Dawes Rolls were compiled between the years of 1899-1906. To qualify for Dawes enrollment, one of your ancestors had to have met all three of the requirements below:
1. Applied for enrollment between the years 1899 and 1906.
2. Appeared on previous Tribal rolls (1880 or 1896), and
3. Had a permanent residence within the Cherokee Nation (1880-1906).
Only enrolled members of the Cherokee Nation named on these final rolls and/or their blood-related descendants will be furnished CDIB cards and/or Cherokee Tribal Membership.

Indeed, there are many people who are of Cherokee descent, but who do not qualify for Tribal Membership because their ancestors did not enroll with the Dawes Commission (1899-1906).
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/th...hreadID=219699

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Unread post by perongregory » March 4th, 2007, 7:12 pm

Fuck the Cherokee, they always sucked the most white dick. thats why I guess its ok to have lilly white mufuckas in the tribe sayin they are native but the freeman aint shit cuz they're black. At least the Seminole took the freeman back (my peoples) hope the choctaw aint doin that shit (also my peeps). But fuck them cherokees, they always seemed like the most racist of the supposed 5 civillized tribes to me.

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » March 4th, 2007, 7:46 pm

Native American? The tribe says no
Updated 11/29/2006 12:13 PM ET
By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
Native American tribes are facing allegations of greed and racism as they purge members from their rolls and deny the applications of others.
The expulsions have sent tremors through Indian country. Thousands of Native Americans have lost their cultural identities and access to tribal benefits, such as medical care, housing and education. Certain gaming tribes divide casino profits among members, in some cases thousands of dollars a month per person. Those expelled lose their cut.

Tribal officials say they're protecting legitimate members by making sure everyone in the tribe is qualified.

As sovereign nations, tribes have the final say in who can — and cannot — join. Each tribe determines what degree of Indian blood is necessary for membership, a requirement that varies among the 561 federally recognized tribes.

In California, at least 2,000 Native Americans have been taken off the rolls of their tribes since 1999, says Laura Wass, executive director of the Many Lightnings American Indian Legacy Center, an education and advocacy group in Fresno. Disenrollments have surged with the rise of Indian casinos, she says.

Thousands of Native Americans elsewhere have lost, or may lose, their tribal status. An upcoming vote at the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma could deny citizenship to more than 1,000 of the tribe's 260,000 members.

"The motive varies from tribe to tribe," says Daniel Littlefield, director of the Sequoyah Research Center at the University of Arkansas, Little Rock, an archive for contemporary Native American issues. "I would say money is at the bottom of a lot of it."

Mary Chapman of Fresno was disenrolled from the Picayune Rancheria of the Chukchansi Indians last month, along with 20 members of her family. About 250 members of the tribe have been disenrolled this year, Wass says, and about 400 others have received letters questioning their status.

The 1,200-member tribe, which opened a casino in Coarsegold, Calif., in 2003, expelled Chapman because she didn't meet the eligibility criteria in the tribe's constitution, a complex set of categories based on ancestry, according to a disenrollment letter sent to her by the tribe.

Mark Levitan, attorney for the tribe, wouldn't discuss numbers. There is a moratorium on enrollment until the tribe completes an audit of every member's eligibility, he says, and tribal leaders "are a government that's responsible for following their own laws."

'Just kicked to the curb'

Chapman, 69, says she traces her Chukchansi lineage to her great-great-grandmother. She blames the tribe's move on casino-related greed, which Levitan disputes.

He says the tribe does not yet distribute casino profits to members and has to show it is meeting the needs of the tribe before it can do so.

"As far as they're concerned, I'm a non-Indian," Chapman says tearfully. "I feel totally displaced, totally homeless. Just kicked to the curb."

She feels helpless, she says, because there's nothing she can do: "There's no way to fight it."

State and federal courts do not have jurisdiction over Native American membership disputes, says Kevin Gover, law professor at Arizona State University and former assistant secretary of the Interior for Indian affairs.

"Congress has not given individual Indians the right to sue their tribes," he says.

Gover does not believe disenrollments are up because of gaming but says casino profits raise the stakes. He thinks expulsions are most often related to feuding families that form political factions.

"The majority family will throw the others out," he says. "It's clannish and unworthy of institutions that claim to be nations."

Yvette Champlain told The Providence Journal that she and dozens of her relatives were kicked out of the Narragansett Indian Tribe in Rhode Island this year because she questioned how the tribe spent $1 million it received from Harrah's Entertainment, which had been planning a casino with the tribe. "They don't want real accountability," she told the newspaper.

The casino plan was rejected by Rhode Island voters this month.

Tribal councilman Randy Noka declined to discuss the specifics of Champlain's case but says her allegations are false.

Members must be able to document that they're descendants of Narragansetts listed on a tribal roll from the 1880s, Noka says. The tribe has about 2,500 people enrolled.

"It has nothing to do with personalities or politics," he says. "Tribes have a responsibility to look out for their members. No one would expect to recognize someone that isn't a member of their family as a family member.

"You don't want anybody who may be looking to benefit from opportunities, who don't deserve them, to take away from someone who truly is a member," Noka says.

"If someone does have a definite interest in trying to prove themselves to be a member, and can prove it, they deserve every benefit other tribal members receive."

At the Cherokee Nation, a membership dispute centers on the Cherokee Freedmen, who are descendants of former slaves owned by Cherokees or, in some cases, descendants of free blacks who lived with the Cherokees. After the Civil War, the Cherokees, who had sided with the Confederacy, signed a treaty with the American government granting freedmen and their descendants tribal citizenship.

The tribe, which ratified a new constitution in 1976, has denied freedmen citizenship for much of the past three decades.

The tribe's highest court ruled in March that freedmen could obtain citizenship. Since then, more than 1,500 have enrolled, tribe spokesman Mike Miller says.

The dispute didn't end there. After Cherokee citizens circulated a referendum petition, Chief Chad Smith called a special election for February 2007 to consider changing the constitution. The proposed amendment would limit citizenship to those of Indian ancestry, based on membership rolls from the early 20th century. Those whose ancestors were freedmen would not be eligible.

Marilyn Vann's membership hangs in the balance.

"I've always considered myself a Cherokee Native American with African blood," says Vann, who says she is Cherokee, Chickasaw and black, and that being listed as a freedman means her Indian ancestry is ignored.

Vann, a petroleum engineer in Oklahoma City, says she was shocked when her citizenship application was rejected in 2001. She reapplied after the court's ruling in March and is now a citizen.

She wanted to join so she could vote and "have a voice in the affairs of the tribe," she says. "I did not come to my tribe to get something."

The Cherokees do not pay gaming profits to members. The money funds the government, social services and job creation.

Vann believes the tribe fears the freedmen's voting power. Littlefield's assessment is more blunt: "It's racism."

Just action or greed?

Some recently disenrolled members of the Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians in California cite greed.

John Gomez Jr., 38, helped found the American Indian Rights and Resources Organization last year to address civil rights issues. Gomez and about 130 adults in his family were disenrolled from the tribe in 2004. Another family of about 90 adults was kicked out earlier this year.

"Both were large families that opposed the leadership," he says.

The Pechanga Indians run a lucrative casino in Temecula, Calif., and split the profits among tribe members. Each member of Gomez's family used to get about $15,000 a month, he says. Once they were disenrolled, the payments stopped and the money went to remaining tribe members.

In an e-mailed statement, Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro says courts have consistently upheld tribes' sole responsibility for determining their citizenship. He noted that a state court this month dismissed a suit brought by disenrolled members. His tribe has 1,370 members.

The allegation of casino-related greed "is ridiculous, irresponsible and simply distorts the facts," he says. "This is about determining who is a rightful citizen and who was enrolled under false pretenses."

Michael Madariaga lost his membership this year.

The tribe had hired John Johnson, curator of anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, to trace the family's lineage.

Johnson determined that Madariaga's family can be traced to one of the original members of the tribe. "They did disregard my findings," Johnson says.

Madariaga, 43, and his family lost access to tribal benefits, including the monthly casino payout and meals for the elderly, he says. He lost his job at the casino. The children had to leave the reservation school.

Madariaga's 89-year-old grandfather, Lawrence, has prostate cancer. After his health insurance was cut off, he didn't take his medications for a few months, Madariaga says. Now, he's dipping into his retirement to pay for them.

'Took a lot out of' grandparents

Madariaga describes his grandfather as an integral member of the tribe who helped upgrade the water system and bring electricity and phones to tribe members. "He designed and helped build the health clinic," he says of his grandfather.

Madariaga says disenrollment "took a lot out of" his grandfather and grandmother, Sophia, 86.

"The anger, the stress, that's not good at their age and for their health," he says. "When they were cut off from the health benefits, they were very stressed."

But the hardest part hasn't been losing benefits and casino payouts, Madariaga says.

"What matters is taking away our heritage," he says.

"It's like taking your family and wiping them out of history."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... over_x.htm

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » March 4th, 2007, 7:48 pm

Stephen Colbert makes fun of this article ("racial purity")
http://www.colbertondemand.com/videos/T ... nest_Injun


NATIVE AMERICANS BY THE NUMBERS

561 federally recognized tribes

1.9 million members in 2003

406 Indian-owned gaming facilities, including about 240 casinos

$22.6 billion in gaming revenue in 2005, 88% from casinos

States with highest Native American and Native Alaskan populations in 2003:

Oklahoma: 675,021

Arizona: 264,984

New Mexico: 170,162

Alaska: 136,315

South Dakota: 105,068


Source: Bureau of Indian Affairs 2003 American Indian Population and Labor Force Report, National Indian Gaming Commission


^ Casino families are taking over.

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Unread post by black » March 5th, 2007, 1:01 am

Good post 100.

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Unread post by curiousdude06 » March 5th, 2007, 1:14 am

fifteen grand a month??? Just for being a tribe member?

Wow.

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 5th, 2007, 7:32 am

perongregory wrote: thats why I guess its ok to have lilly white mufuckas in the tribe sayin they are native
-people around here that have 1/4 native in them qualify for native status up here, i think its weird, that people who are more white then metis get these kind of privaliges...
-most not all natives up here are metis
-thats crazy though i never would have thought a native tribe would have owned slaves.......

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Unread post by TomTom » March 5th, 2007, 12:50 pm

u're on point homey..i've been paying hard attention 2 this and i cant understand why they're denouncing freedman like that..But will accept whites w/ 0% of indian blood. This is going 2 damage native american, and black relations heavily in my state..There's been even hate emails surfacing towards blacks from "suposedly" tribal members..Or is it the use of propagand from the government again??

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Unread post by perongregory » March 5th, 2007, 3:04 pm

TomTom wrote:u're on point homey..i've been paying hard attention 2 this and i cant understand why they're denouncing freedman like that..But will accept whites w/ 0% of indian blood. This is going 2 damage native american, and black relations heavily in my state..There's been even hate emails surfacing towards blacks from "suposedly" tribal members..Or is it the use of propagand from the government again??
I don't know but that'd be a bitch if the whites with native blood was mainly behind this, and it seems possible wasn't the chief's name Chad Smith or something like that.

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Unread post by 2tabs » March 5th, 2007, 3:47 pm

Image

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Unread post by perongregory » March 5th, 2007, 5:34 pm

haha, yep. Whatever typical BS.

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 5th, 2007, 5:36 pm

^----- they look more metis than native and there still racist, somewhere it said that like 40% of african americans can trace there roots back to native people. Id be pisssed at these fuckers for doing shit like what they did.

Even after some natives helped start america by helping the colonies fight back at britian and get betrayed by the colonies, they still pass racist shit against blacks, wow, mabye there brainwashed with all that casino money or something....

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 5th, 2007, 5:37 pm

perongregory wrote:haha, yep. Whatever typical BS.
Is he supposed to be a native?

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 5th, 2007, 5:39 pm

fyi native and black people are cool with each other in ontario so those people are doing there own thing down in the states..

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Unread post by perongregory » March 5th, 2007, 5:39 pm

Sentenza wrote:
perongregory wrote:haha, yep. Whatever typical BS.
Is he supposed to be a native?
yeah, but it looks like he has white in him at least when I looked at him compared to his Indian family on the cherokee page. I heard about the Hopi discriminationg against half Indian/ Half Mexican indians when it came to health care. Basically, half white/half indians, and full indians got free healthcare but half mexicans had to pay.

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 5th, 2007, 5:47 pm

Sounds like this BS is happening everywhere. LOL...Half Mexicans/ half indians. Wouldnt that mean they are either 100%Indian or half indian/half white considering of what mexicans descended from?
Confused bs.....

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Unread post by MiChuhSuh » March 5th, 2007, 7:24 pm

perongregory wrote:thats why I guess its ok to have lilly white mufuckas in the tribe sayin they are native but the freeman aint shit because they're black.
They're starting to crack down on "white' ones too, but only the ones that are using health care or the families that are "threatening" to the ruling families because they tried to protest the unfair balance of power in the tribe

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Unread post by TomTom » March 5th, 2007, 10:02 pm

See they spitting all kinds of shit like blacks in the gettos claiming 2 b Cherokee will start "pimping the Cherokee Nation..And yes many blacks feel alot of white memebers of the cherokee nation are behind this..And yes Indians are super rich off of those casinos. You know what makes it even worst..out here in oklahoma they constantly show commercials, of white indians telling there story of how they have prospered off of indian benefits, but you got all these blacks getting the boot from the Cherokee Nation..Just rubbing it in the freedman's faces.

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 6th, 2007, 6:05 am

TomTom wrote:See they spitting all kinds of shit like blacks in the gettos claiming 2 b Cherokee will start "pimping the Cherokee Nation..And yes many blacks feel alot of white memebers of the cherokee nation are behind this..And yes Indians are super rich off of those casinos. You know what makes it even worst..out here in oklahoma they constantly show commercials, of white indians telling there story of how they have prospered off of indian benefits, but you got all these blacks getting the boot from the Cherokee Nation..Just rubbing it in the freedman's faces.
Do black natives look more native then white natives? The darker ones up here look like normal natives. But i also i know of alot of white people who got turned down for aboriginal status, but on the other hand alot of white metis have it. There was a rebellion in canada for that shit so i dunno.

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » March 6th, 2007, 12:26 pm

webay wrote:Image
He looks at the very least part native. Looking at him I can tell he has some native in him. We have similar problems up here in that (at least out west) you have to be 1/8 native to qualify for treaty status. I've had many friends who qualify who would look completely white. I had a friend who's grandfather was a chief and my friend was what you would call white. I don't know of any of my friends who actually took the treaty status, I even had 1 friend who was half native who went as far as throwing his treaty card away because he didn't want to be given a job based solely on being a native.

I don't know the American system well enough to know what treaties were in place for your American Natives but you'd figure if they're raking in that kind of money from casino's there would be enough to go around for their tribes.

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Unread post by TomTom » March 6th, 2007, 12:46 pm

most of today's black indians, draw resemblances, 2 the natives..It's really the most difficult thing 2 describe..I myself have alot of indian blood running thru me, and i swear homeys always tel me they see it in me. mainly cauze of my nose and some facial feats..Now some of my potnas are freedman descendents, and u really can tell man...Some will be light/brown skinned w/ that indian hair, and traits..You'd have 2 see 4 yourself

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Unread post by TomTom » March 6th, 2007, 12:48 pm

here are some early pics of freedman..

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com ... index.html

let me know if it works

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Unread post by TomTom » March 6th, 2007, 12:49 pm

and i want u 2 tell me if these pics of the 1800's; well those black indians look just as native as chad smith, the chief

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Unread post by TomTom » March 6th, 2007, 12:55 pm

http://www-mcnair.berkeley.edu/2002jour ... Baber.html

towards the middle you have a freedman lady with noticeable creek indian blood, and a freedman slave family w/ no direct indian blood..Tho both are black u can tell the difference..atleast i can

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 6th, 2007, 2:43 pm

I don't know the American system well enough to know what treaties were in place for your American Natives
i heard that one of the presidents voided them all, might be wrong

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 7th, 2007, 10:20 am

johnnnny wrote:
I don't know the American system well enough to know what treaties were in place for your American Natives
i heard that one of the presidents voided them all, might be wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Reorganization_Act
In 1954, the United States Department of Interior began implementing the termination and relocation phases of the Act. Among other effects, termination resulted in the legal dismantling of 61 tribal nations within the United States

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