CHICANOS NO LONGER DESIRE TO BE PART OF MEXICO

The topics of Race & Religion are discussed in this section.
Rollin_inmy_SixFo
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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 26th, 2007, 12:01 am

mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
perongregory wrote:why are you guys splitting yourselves over country lines, national allegiance, and so on?
Jealousy? Jealousy of what? All that style you misinformed idiots claim is not yours and it never will be. Did you guys invent Zoot Zuits? Or oldies? And even the lowrider is questionable if it really started in LA. You guys don't have your own style. All the chicanos did is barrow everything from blacks and true Mexican culture and try to make believe it's yours.

So you are really believe this country really gave a fu-- if you little chicanos lived or died. So chicanos were not living in poverty in this country huh? Chicanos were not famous for living in #%@&#%@ shacks then? Do you not remember this part of your Chicano history. How about the part of all the heroin addicts that sprang up in the famous ELA, I bet anything that a bunch of your relatives are little tecatos. Its that what you call having it "going on"?

So whites in this country never forbid you chicanos from entering stores and cities were Mexicans were not welcomed. Life back then was not easy for you chicanos.

And what did you guys do about it. Nothing. All the sailors had to do to make you guys act right was slap you chicanos around a bit. What did the chicanos do to make their situation better. Nothing and you and I know it. Don't even mention those little protest that chicanos made that accomplished nothing. ELA chicanos didn't get any laws passed. Again after the cops slap you guys a bit you chicanos just put your head down and played the part that they gave you.
The FINISHED PRODUCT is a Chicano thing. That's a fact. You chuntarros could never be like us. We know it and you know it.

Talk about borrowing from another culture. Mexico stold half of its "culture" from Europe: religion, architecture, political structure, etc.. The only true cultural trademarks you have is keeping the weeemen barefoot and pregnant, border crossing, and mariachi music. You can keep that isht! Chicanos don't want to be known for that.

You still haven't answered the question everybody wants to know. If Mexico is as great as you want everybody to believe, then WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why is half the Mexican population dying to flee your country? Why is there a 90% illiteracy rate? Why is 80% of the population living in poverty? Why do you continue to try to pump up a country that PUNKED your entire familia across the border? Mexico is so fu-cked up that your familia ran out of there probably like some scared rats through an underground tunnel. Matter of fact, how much feria did your jefa pay your "coyote" to pack you into a truck and to get your greencard? Do you even have a greencard? LOL A "shack" in the U.S. doesn't sound as bad as living in the TOILET you call home? You have to face the facts. Mexico is a 3rd and possibly 4th world fuc-kup. It's a lauhgingstock that nobody respects--not even other Latin countries. When you have entire countries building giant walls to keep people like you out, that should be a big enough hint.

8)

Y.G.
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Unread post by Y.G. » March 26th, 2007, 2:42 am

perongregory wrote:
mnjmc wrote:I'm just going to say this. I never called myself a chicano. I never called any of my friends or relatives chicano. To the point that that word sounds weird to me. I have always called myself Mexican and nothing else. I always called everybody else a Mexican if I knew their parents where born in Mexico. I never felt comfortable being called a chicano by those ELA Mexicans in denial. LOL. You see to me that word is an example of Mexicans giving in to what white boys think. I guess they saw the places that said no Mexicans no Dogs allowed and it hurt their feelings too much. So I think they calling themselves chicano they got rid of some of their shame. It was a way of separating themselves from the dirty Mexicans.

Yeah some so called chicanos are going to tell me that that's not why that word was made up. Fine be in denial that white boys told you what to think and what to be ashamed of. And sugar coat the real origins of that word.

And if you chicanos don't want nothing to with Mexicans then scrape those murals with Zapata and Villa off the walls. Because for sure I know men who died defending the identity they were born with, would not take kindly to being up in walls of people that easily gave into the idea that Mexican is something to be ashamed of. Bet you they loved their ranchero Mexican style and identity. And I really doubt they ever in their life that those Mexicans called themselves chicano.

Now why would someone that has a Mexican riding a horse and ranchero style in his avatar talk down about chunties. That avatar is the perfect example one. You see through out Mexican history it was people like that that made the Mexicans famous. That ranchero style that is present in your ELA murals and tattos. All the bandidos and revolutionaries in Mexico had that style that chicanos hate and love at the same time, a style which is always associated with Mexican valor and bravery. Again, if you don't like it scrap those paintings off the walls and burn off those tattoos, even the ones of the girl with the charro hat and the straps of bullets across her chest. Because that chuntie, charro, bandido, and revolutionary style that Villa, Zapata and Murieata had is Mexican, it was Mexican, and it will keep on being Mexican. Not #%@&#%@ chicano. Your avatar should be of a Grandma chola that still shaves her eyebrows and has heroin needle stuck in her arm. Thar charro shit in your avatar is 100% Mexican and nothing else, so change it chicano.

And like true Mexicans that style keeps on going regardless of the world has to say. Rancheros changed their hats but not much else. Even the music and corridos that those brave Mexicans heard during the revolution of the early 20th century are the same. I am proud that the world did not stop Mexicans from making corridos, in any style. No matter how much people say it is unsophisticated, repetitive, and rough sounding it is to them. It's always amazing to me that this music is still popular a hundred years after its creation.

We know chicanos didn't invent Zoot Zuits. We they didn't invent oldies. Graffiti has been around since ancient times. Lowriders okay you can have it. But don't be condescending and ignorant into telling every one you chicanos came up with everything. So get don't mad when you say people copy cholo style, chicanos where the ones that started to copy first.

And don't talk shit about Mexican and their government either. Mexicans have been overthrowing their own governments for a good century. Starting revolutions with serious consequences. Only to be back stabbed by the person put in to power. Not to mention the US ambassador backing the assassination Madero, making the revolution even longer, resulting in 10% percent of the population being killed. And are you telling me the US is free of corruption. No homeboy it is only that the US and European countries have the military power to take from other countries, so they don't rob it's own citizens as much. In third world countries they only have the power to take from their own people.

And let make this even more clear to a simple minded fool like you. The government of the US likes the government in Mexico right now. If Mexicans where to overthrow it, who the hell do you think is going interfere, the US right. And who are they going to back? If you are not sure look what happed in Central and South America. If you fight with the Mexican government today you are also going to have to fight the American one as well. The US likes receiving Mexican oil and crops for cheap. You see it is not as simple as Mexican people "waking up". Back then it in the days of Zapata it was a fair fight. The adversaries had the same type of weapons. Today it would be a slaughter, the Mexican government does a very good job of keeping its citizens unarmed. And you just know the US is going to provide to the side it wants to win with sophisticated weapons. So please save those simple minded solutions that only the very stupid and ignorant come up with. "Waking up" in the third world means a lot of blood shed. It aint no petty gang beef.

Besides what have chicanos done that can even begin to compare with the revolutions that the Mexicans did. The brown berets? LOL. Even in he civil rights movement it was the blacks that got all the laws passed, they where the ones that took all the abuse for it. Not you guys. And even today with the immigrants rallies I bet you ELA chicanos were agreeing with whites and think all those Mexicans, which out number you chicanos by a lot, that they should go back to Mexico. To me it's like weakness and conformity is a chicano trade mark.

So I'm always going to call myself Mexican, and so are my children and their children as well. And fu-- any one who is offended by it.
deep shit...I agree with motst of what you said. I'm not gonna say that chicanos aint shit but I agree with most of what you said. Blacks have the same problem thinking they are better than Africans. All of us as minorities have to get back to our roots, not this creole half assimilation BS that keeps us chained to this corruption.
NO ITS THE OTHER THE WAY AROUND AFRICANS THINK THEY ARE BETTER MOST BLACK AMERICANS DON'T HAVE NOTHING AGAINST AFRICANS.

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Unread post by Y.G. » March 26th, 2007, 2:44 am

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
perongregory wrote:why are you guys splitting yourselves over country lines, national allegiance, and so on?
It's just jealousy and envy on the part of some Mexicans from Mexico. They're mad because Chicanos have seen the light and we basically got it going on here in the United States, with our own style, and our own culture. My family basically put it to me this way: While we acknowledge our Mexican ancestry, we say fu-ck you to a government, ideology, and land that basically never gave a isht if we live or die. You see people starving, dying to cross, all poor, ignorant, fearful n isht, we are not cool with that--basically--and have tried to change that for ourselves.

Some people don't like it but hey...they get the big fu-ck you finger. :D


I UNDERSTAND AND FEEL YOU ON THAT BECAUSE ITS LIKE HERE IN AMERICAN I LOVE THIS COUNTRY BUT CAN GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENT.

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Unread post by mnjmc » March 26th, 2007, 6:16 am

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
perongregory wrote:why are you guys splitting yourselves over country lines, national allegiance, and so on?
Jealousy? Jealousy of what? All that style you misinformed idiots claim is not yours and it never will be. Did you guys invent Zoot Zuits? Or oldies? And even the lowrider is questionable if it really started in LA. You guys don't have your own style. All the chicanos did is barrow everything from blacks and true Mexican culture and try to make believe it's yours.

So you are really believe this country really gave a fu-- if you little chicanos lived or died. So chicanos were not living in poverty in this country huh? Chicanos were not famous for living in #%@&#%@ shacks then? Do you not remember this part of your Chicano history. How about the part of all the heroin addicts that sprang up in the famous ELA, I bet anything that a bunch of your relatives are little tecatos. Its that what you call having it "going on"?

So whites in this country never forbid you chicanos from entering stores and cities were Mexicans were not welcomed. Life back then was not easy for you chicanos.

And what did you guys do about it. Nothing. All the sailors had to do to make you guys act right was slap you chicanos around a bit. What did the chicanos do to make their situation better. Nothing and you and I know it. Don't even mention those little protest that chicanos made that accomplished nothing. ELA chicanos didn't get any laws passed. Again after the cops slap you guys a bit you chicanos just put your head down and played the part that they gave you.
The FINISHED PRODUCT is a Chicano thing. That's a fact. You chuntarros could never be like us. We know it and you know it.

Talk about borrowing from another culture. Mexico stold half of its "culture" from Europe: religion, architecture, political structure, etc.. The only true cultural trademarks you have is keeping the weeemen barefoot and pregnant, border crossing, and mariachi music. You can keep that isht! Chicanos don't want to be known for that.

You still haven't answered the question everybody wants to know. If Mexico is as great as you want everybody to believe, then WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why is half the Mexican population dying to flee your country? Why is there a 90% illiteracy rate? Why is 80% of the population living in poverty? Why do you continue to try to pump up a country that PUNKED your entire familia across the border? Mexico is so fu-cked up that your familia ran out of there probably like some scared rats through an underground tunnel. Matter of fact, how much feria did your jefa pay your "coyote" to pack you into a truck and to get your greencard? Do you even have a greencard? LOL A "shack" in the U.S. doesn't sound as bad as living in the TOILET you call home? You have to face the facts. Mexico is a 3rd and possibly 4th world fuc-kup. It's a lauhgingstock that nobody respects--not even other Latin countries. When you have entire countries building giant walls to keep people like you out, that should be a big enough hint.

8)
I answered that question you idiot. Did you not read my seventh and eight paragraphs in my first post? If your to stupid to connect the dots on that one, then tell me so I can dumb it down to a simple minded fool like you. You see I answered that question ahead of time because, like a true white people pleasing chicano, I knew you were just going through that "why don't you back to your country" argument. So if you forgot it, here it goes again.



And don't talk shit about Mexican and their government either. Mexicans have been overthrowing their own governments for a good century. Starting revolutions with serious consequences. Only to be back stabbed by the person put in to power. Not to mention the US ambassador backing the assassination Madero, making the revolution even longer, resulting in 10% percent of the population being killed. And are you telling me the US is free of corruption. No homeboy it is only that the US and European countries have the military power to take from other countries, so they don't rob it's own citizens as much. In third world countries they only have the power to take from their own people.

And let make this even more clear to a simple minded fool like you. The government of the US likes the government in Mexico right now. If Mexicans where to overthrow it, who the hell do you think is going interfere, the US right. And who are they going to back? If you are not sure look what happed in Central and South America. If you fight with the Mexican government today you are also going to have to fight the American one as well. The US likes receiving Mexican oil and crops for cheap. You see it is not as simple as Mexican people "waking up". Back then it in the days of Zapata it was a fair fight. The adversaries had the same type of weapons. Today it would be a slaughter, the Mexican government does a very good job of keeping its citizens unarmed. And you just know the US is going to provide to the side it wants to win with sophisticated weapons. So please save those simple minded solutions that only the very stupid and ignorant come up with. "Waking up" in the third world means a lot of blood shed. It aint no petty gang beef.



And we Mexicans did not barrow or steal anything from Spain or Europe. They are a part of us, they brought it to Mexico. They made people change their way behind the barrel of a gun, while the natives did not have the luxury of those types of weapons. It's no where near the complete weakness shown by chicanos. Chicanos didn't have guns pointed at them, they just caved in voluntarily, just for being so ashamed about the way white people thought of them. Europeans and the natives over time had children together and little by little bits and pieces of their cultures were mixed together. The Spanish spoken in Mexico is not the same as the one spoken in Spain. Buildings in the pueblos of Mexico are not same as the ones you find in Europe. The natives incorporated their techniques with the ones of the Spaniards used to build those pueblos. One of the most obvious things different about them is that they are more colorful.

You see Mexicans are not just the natives. It is a mixture of cultures. Mexicans formed their identity slowly over time, hundreds of years it took. And there was a lot of blood paid for that. When the Spaniards first tried to convert the Aztecs suicide and killing your children was common amongst them. The thought of your whole world completely changing made taking your own life seem better the summiting to someone else’s will. The priest were having hell of a time trying to convert them. Then Guadalupe happened and millions changed to Catholicism in a short period of time. Some might not believe it, fine with me not everyone is. But don't make it seem like we just looked at Spaniards, and overnight copied what they did. We aint chicanos.

That little history lesson, although brief and missing a great amount of detail, I gave you was to not lecture. I just wanted to make sure you understand the Mexicans never "copied" nothing. It came together slowly and mixed to make something new.

Don't talk to me like you chicanos had any significant hand in making this country what it is. The reason this country is a first world country has nothing to do with chicanos. It has way more to do with Mexicans and let me tell you why. Many Mexican came here to the US to help build. And no they did not feel like Americans because Americans treated them like shit. Remember those NO MEXICANS allowed signs, they existed for a very long time. So how could men with pride beg an American white boy to except him when they treated them like garbage. And back then like know they hired Mexicans for cheap labor but it was legal back then. Best believe they were not treated equally to the whites. Same thing with the Braceros during WW2, I'll bet my life they didn't call themselves chicanos, and they contributed greatly to the war effort. It was their kids who made up chicano do to their weakness, their same children who turned their back on the suffering of their parents. But today you see Mexican parents aint going to make the same mistake twice, the mistake of chicano.

It's funny to me that you told me that chuntarros or paisas will never be chicanos. Why on earth would I degrade myself into saying I'm chicano. No you must be mistaken, I never in any of my post gave the impression that I wanted to called that. I reject everything that has to do with being chicano. Like I said you have chuntarro/paisano on your avatar. So change it or stop talking down them. Do you not comprehend how ridiculous you look by the hypocrisy in that?

Oh and she paid 300 dollars to cross that border. But tell me how much does your mom charge to give head. You know she has to support her heroin habit some how. ELA the place were mother and son sharing the needles is common.

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 26th, 2007, 12:25 pm

After all is said and done ~~> there’s no question in my mind that we are dealing with “at least 3 different cultures” . . . The predominant ones being American and Mexican. The third is a combination of both. Chicanos are unique ~~> they reject both and they are rejected by both. They enjoy both and they despise both. The have the best of both worlds. Needles to say, they would not have been born nor would they continue to survive without one or the other. But what is Mexico? And why does it have such mass appeal if it is that focked up? And for that matter ~~> is the U.S. so magnificent that no one can resist it? I would answer that both Nations and both Cultures, Mexican & American have much to offer. Values from both cultures are what make the Chicano. Some may argue that Mexico is all poverty and corruption, in contrast ~~> the U.S. is prosperity and progressiveness. To fully understand why it is so ~~> one must dig into the past and the forces at work that subjugated some peoples minds, while enhancing those of others. It is a false assumption made that Mexico is all poor and corrupt, it also a false assumption that all here in the U.S. was all dandy for all its inhabitants from the start. You can look at both Nations histories and learn just how rich one was, while the other lived in squalor. Compare Mexico City and New York City in the year 1821. Compare Valladolid and New Orleans in that same year. Which one was poor and which one was all nasty? Who abolished slavery from the get go? Who incorporated the Brown Tribes into Nationhood and who exterminated them? Which one fought for the Natives right to their lands and which one stole from them and relegated them to reservations? Turn it all around ~~> which Nation went world-wide? Which Nation uses war as a tool for achievement? Which Nation created a World Empire ~~> much in line like the rest of the Capitalist Emperors of the world ~~> Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guantanamo, Panama Canal Zone, Alaska, Hawaii, The Philippines, Guam, Wake, Western Samoa and more.. You know is like they say ~~> Good Guys Always Finish Last, and the U.S. was and ain’t no Good Guy. It thrives from the wealth taken from others ~~> be that gold, oil, land or “minds” . . . The Chicano Mind is one in dispute even to this day. If dollars and gadgets can make you a believer who does not question how it all comes about and how it all becomes a reality to your benefit ~~> if that is so <~~ then I can understand why you no longer align with the Original Chicano.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 26th, 2007, 9:47 pm

mnjmc wrote: I answered that question you idiot. Did you not read my seventh and eight paragraphs in my first post? If your to stupid to connect the dots on that one, then tell me so I can dumb it down to a simple minded fool like you. You see I answered that question ahead of time because, like a true white people pleasing chicano, I knew you were just going through that "why don't you back to your country" argument. So if you forgot it, here it goes again.
And don't talk shit about Mexican and their government either. Mexicans have been overthrowing their own governments for a good century. Starting revolutions with serious consequences. Only to be back stabbed by the person put in to power.
So your family basically pulled out the white flags and ran away. Just gave up, quit, and turned their back on your country? Now I ask, again, why would a man/woman of your complexity (sarcasm), defend a country that left you destitute and hopeless? I don't see any common sense in your logic--which is I guess to be expected since Mexicans from Mexico are not known for their common sense.
Not to mention the US ambassador backing the assassination Madero, making the revolution even longer, resulting in 10% percent of the population being killed.
Don't blame the US because your country is fu-cked up.
And are you telling me the US is free of corruption.
All countries have some corruption but yours is one of the most corrupt in the entire world. I'm surprised, that as sophisticated as you are (sarcasm), you can't understand the simple axiom that corruption=a fu-cked up country. Whining and running from the truth won't solve your problems. I'm starting to question your intelligence.
No homeboy it is only that the US and European countries have the military power to take from other countries, so they don't rob it's own citizens as much.


So you're saying that military strength=strong economy? OK now I'm really questioning your intelligence. How would you explain the collapse of the Soviet Union?
In third world countries they only have the power to take from their own people.
So if they jacked your familia, it makes no sense that you would be "viva Mejico." Oh thats right, you lack common sense--my bad.
And let make this even more clear to a simple minded fool like you. The government of the US likes the government in Mexico right now.


Don't tell me that you're proud of the fact that you and yours are only viewed as an efficient source of cheap labor?
If Mexicans where to overthrow it, who the hell do you think is going interfere, the US right.
No, I think if you (well not you because you ran away) overthrew the goverment, you would fall back into the same rut because the brain power just isn't there (wink).
The US likes receiving Mexican oil and crops for cheap.
If Americans have to, we could grow our own or just buy it somewhere else. Don't use us as an excuse to stay stupid.
Today it would be a slaughter, the Mexican government does a very good job of keeping its citizens unarmed. So please save those simple minded solutions that only the very stupid and ignorant come up with. "Waking up" in the third world means a lot of blood shed.
No ballz and no brains make you 0 and 2.
And we Mexicans did not barrow or steal anything from Spain or Europe. They are a part of us, they brought it to Mexico. They made people change their way behind the barrel of a gun, while the natives did not have the luxury of those types of weapons.


Damn, you really are beyond stupid. I could have sworn, Chicanos have the same influence. Now far as originality, I would still only give Mexicans from Mexico the following: Mariachi music, border crossing, and keeping the weemen ignorant and loaded with kids. Nothing really that Chicanos want any part of.
Chicanos didn't have guns pointed at them, they just caved in voluntarily, just for being so ashamed about the way white people thought of them.


Caved into what? Yes there was discrimination but we overcame and many are doing swell now. Can't say the same for the Mexicans from Mexico-- being that your own mother paid 300 pesos to your coyote to have you shipped to my country.
The Spanish spoken in Mexico is not the same as the one spoken in Spain. Buildings in the pueblos of Mexico are not same as the ones you find in Europe. The natives incorporated their techniques with the ones of the Spaniards used to build those pueblos. One of the most obvious things different about them is that they are more colorful.
You see Mexicans are not just the natives. It is a mixture of cultures. Mexicans formed their identity slowly over time, hundreds of years it took. And there was a lot of blood paid for that. When the Spaniards first tried to convert the Aztecs suicide and killing your children was common amongst them. The thought of your whole world completely changing made taking your own life seem better the summiting to someone else’s will. The priest were having hell of a time trying to convert them. Then Guadalupe happened and millions changed to Catholicism in a short period of time. Some might not believe it, fine with me not everyone is. But don't make it seem like we just looked at Spaniards, and overnight copied what they did. We aint chicanos.
No you're not a Chicano but you are definitely a chuntarro without a home. Let me see if I can understand the things this chunrrarro is saying: "The Spanish language is really Mexican? Spanish architecture is wasn't developed in Spain?" What next? Catholicism doesn't come from Europe? Cut the bullsh-it and stick to Mariachi music and border crossing since those are your only true contributions to culture.
That little history lesson, although brief and missing a great amount of detail, I gave you was to not lecture. I just wanted to make sure you understand the Mexicans never "copied" nothing. It came together slowly and mixed to make something new.
You jacked 59 percent of your culture from Europe, 29 percent from the United States, and 9 percent from the Native population. For the remaining 3 percent, see above.
Don't talk to me like you chicanos had any significant hand in making this country what it is. The reason this country is a first world country has nothing to do with chicanos. It has way more to do with Mexicans and let me tell you why. Many Mexican came here to the US to help build.

And no they did not feel like Americans because Americans treated them like shit. Remember those NO MEXICANS allowed signs, they existed for a very long time. So how could men with pride beg an American white boy to except him when they treated them like garbage.
It's not on the level that Mexicans like you are doing now. Begging the American government shamelessly for citizenship, amnesty, jobs, and other welfare. Guess what, American citizens don't want you here. You see all the anti immigrant protests that are going on? They want you to get the fu-ck out! LOL
And back then like know they hired Mexicans for cheap labor but it was legal back then. Best believe they were not treated equally to the whites. Same thing with the Braceros during WW2, I'll bet my life they didn't call themselves chicanos, and they contributed greatly to the war effort.


Contribute to the war? Chicanos contributed to every major US war beyond the civil war. Mexicans from Mexico didn't do sh-it but run back to Mexico and return with 10 different names.
It was their kids who made up chicano do to their weakness, their same children who turned their back on the suffering of their parents. But today you see Mexican parents aint going to make the same mistake twice, the mistake of chicano.
Mexicans from Mexico have actually outdone themselves by shitt-ing out litters of ratones like you on their way to my country.

Help build? You filled up our schools with hoards of kids that are too stupid to learn English. Flooded our streets with 30 year old manual laborers who ride around on bikes. Weeemen too ignorant to be integrated into the mainstream so they walk around barefoot, pregnant, with 3 kids on each arm, 2 on the back, 1 on the pregant stomach, and one in the stroller. You're not building anything but a 1000 mile fence across the border to keep people like YOU out. That's only significant building that you are contributing to.
It's funny to me that you told me that chuntarros or paisas will never be chicanos. Why on earth would I degrade myself into saying I'm chicano. No you must be mistaken, I never in any of my post gave the impression that I wanted to called that.
I reject everything that has to do with being chicano. Like I said you have chuntarro/paisano on your avatar. So change it or stop talking down them. Do you not comprehend how ridiculous you look by the hypocrisy in that?
Don't sweat it chuntarro, a true Chicano wouldn't consider you a Mexican American. We know what you're about. So why don't you remove Compton from your avatar being that you're from Mexico? Oh that's right, you want to keep your culture...while living in MY country. LOL Trust me, I wish the dude and horse were not in the picture because it's not anything I identfify with; I really just wanted the Chicano varrio in the background but that's what I have for now.
Oh and she paid 300 dollars to cross that border. But tell me how much does your mom charge to give head. You know she has to support her heroin habit some how. ELA the place were mother and son sharing the needles is common.
LOL the bi-tch and her ratone were only worth $300 LOL. I'll give you $400 to take your as-s back to Mexico and keep it there. You truly are a fu-cked up bunch of people. It's hopeless explaining anything to you because it has been proven throughout time, that you're just too damn stupid to learn anything and put it to use.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 26th, 2007, 9:50 pm

Time to drop some FACTS on these jealous-ass Chuntarros.

Poverty in Mexico - Fact Sheet
In 2002, half the population in Mexico was living in poverty and one fifth was living in extreme poverty. At the national level, in 2002 the rates for access to electricity, water and sanitation were 98, 90 and 80 percent, respectively.
Between 2000 y 2002, access to electricity increased from 63 to 90 percent in the population living in extreme poverty in rural areas. Access to drinking water increased from 38 to 58 percent, while access to sanitation services increased only from 22 to 26 percent. While almost 70 percent of the moderate poor have their own house, only 5 percent indicated that they were paying for their house, which is an indicator of the predominantly self-financed purchase and construction process.
The crisis of 1994-1995 was a setback for Mexico: between 1996 and 2002, extreme poverty decreased by 17 percentage points to 20 percent, only one percentage point below the level prior to the 1994 crisis.
The decreases in extreme poverty at the rural and national levels are statistically significant; the decrease in urban poverty is not statistically significant. Only between 4 and 9 percent still live on less than one dollar a day, a level close to that found in some of the world's poorest countries.
Inequality in Mexico has tended to be counter-cyclical: it was reduced by the 1994-1995 crisis, but increased with the 1996-2000 recovery and was then reduced by the 2000-2003 stagnation. After having reached the already very high Latin American average, Mexico fell slightly under the average in 2002.
About one quarter of those living in extreme poverty in Mexico reside in urban areas in the states in the center of the country.
While total spending increased on average by 6.3 percent a year between 2000 and 2002, social development spending increased on average by 5.3 percent a year and poverty reduction spending increased by 14.2 percent annually. Overall, the growth in social spending since the mid-1990s was achieved despite fiscal constraints.
Spending on programs specifically targeted to the poor now represents 1.3 percent of GDP, compared with 0.7 percent in 1990. Programs involving transfers to the poor, spearheaded by OPORTUNIDADES (formerly PROGRESA) have since their creation grown by 8.4 percent a year on average during the 1990s and by still more (9.8 percent) since 2000.

Rollin_inmy_SixFo
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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 26th, 2007, 9:59 pm

I knew mjcmc was strung out on something. :roll:

Illicit drugs:
Definition Field Listing
major drug-producing nation; cultivation of opium poppy in 2005 amounted to 3,300 hectares yielding a potential production of 8 metric tons of pure heroin, or 17 metric tons of "black tar" heroin, the dominant form of Mexican heroin in the western United States; marijuana cultivation decreased 3% to 5,600 hectares in 2005 - just two years after a decade-high cultivation peak in 2003 - and yielded a potential production of 10,100 metric tons; government conducts the largest independent illicit-crop eradication program in the world; continues as the primary transshipment country for US-bound cocaine from South America, with an estimated 90% of annual cocaine movements towards the US stopping in Mexico; major drug syndicates control majority of drug trafficking throughout the country; producer and distributor of ecstasy; significant money-laundering center; major supplier of heroin and largest foreign supplier of marijuana and methamphetamine to the US market

This page was last updated on 15 March, 2007

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Unread post by themanfromtheyay » March 26th, 2007, 11:47 pm

I was born here. My dads chicano, and my mom is Rican and Venezuelan-American. WTF am I? :?: :lol:



perongregory wrote:why are you guys splitting yourselves over country lines, national allegiance, and so on?
Thats how we are. Latinos love to split up and hate on eachother.

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 27th, 2007, 2:03 am

Really i didnt know that there was a beef going on between Chicano and Mexicans.

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Unread post by mnjmc » March 27th, 2007, 3:11 am

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:I knew mjcmc was strung out on something. :roll:

Illicit drugs:
Definition Field Listing
major drug-producing nation; cultivation of opium poppy in 2005 amounted to 3,300 hectares yielding a potential production of 8 metric tons of pure heroin, or 17 metric tons of "black tar" heroin, the dominant form of Mexican heroin in the western United States; marijuana cultivation decreased 3% to 5,600 hectares in 2005 - just two years after a decade-high cultivation peak in 2003 - and yielded a potential production of 10,100 metric tons; government conducts the largest independent illicit-crop eradication program in the world; continues as the primary transshipment country for US-bound cocaine from South America, with an estimated 90% of annual cocaine movements towards the US stopping in Mexico; major drug syndicates control majority of drug trafficking throughout the country; producer and distributor of ecstasy; significant money-laundering center; major supplier of heroin and largest foreign supplier of marijuana and methamphetamine to the US market

This page was last updated on 15 March, 2007

Yeah, that's right, I got family in Guerrero right now producing the heroin your whore dick sucking mother, cousins, and aunts buy and shoot up with. ELA is good for that business. Nothing but generation after generation fuck up cholito ass tecatos just waiting to use that black tar. I would much rather be known for supplying the drugs rather than be the hepless little coward ass chicanos that are shacking for the next fix. Yeah we Mexicans supply you coward as chicanos just buy. And tell your mother and the other females, I mean bitches, in your family that is time to shave their eyebrows, now put that picture in your avatar.

Now I would respond to your other post but I would just be repeating myself due to your lack of reading comprehension. It already is clear to me that this debate is going around in circles. I will in near future post a reply but right now I don't have the time. Your are going to have to wait for the weekend. But the next time I post it will be my last one on this subject.

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Unread post by RuthlessCray » March 27th, 2007, 10:37 am

themanfromtheyay wrote:I was born here. My dads chicano, and my mom is Rican and Venezuelan-American. WTF am I? :?: :lol:


.
This topic made me ask myself the same question. LOL..

I was born here, my mother was born in Mexico and my dad is chicano...I always thought it made me chicano...? Hispanic? Im NOT white thats for sure haha

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 27th, 2007, 12:11 pm

YOU ARE WITNESSING FOR YOURSELF WHAT LIES BENEATH.

I TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE AND TOUCHED UPON IT ON MANY TOPICS.

FEW ARE THE ONES THAT WILL OUTRIGHT ADMIT IT LIKE ROLLIN' BUT
IS THERE. EVEN MY OWN FAMILY HAS IT OWN. I SAID IT BEFORE, MY
OWN BROTHER DON'T SPEAK SPANISH. HE'S ALL UP IN A DIFFERENT
WORLD THAT DENIES AND REJECTS HIS ROOTS AND HERITAGE.

CHICANO STUFF IS COOL TO HIM, BUT THAT'S A FAR AS HE'LL GET
TO BEING MEXICAN. BUT HE AIN'T WHITE AND MESTIZO BLOOD RUNS
THROUGH OUR VEINS. I SUPPOSE THAT HIS PROSPERITY AND HIS
CHICANO CULTURAL POPULARITY GOT THE BEST OF HIM.

HE DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WE WENT THROUGH IN SCHOOL. HE DON'T
REMEMBER THE NAME CALLING. HE DON'T REMEMBER THE SCOOP UPS
BY THE FUZZ AND DROP OFFS ON ENEMY TERRITORY. HE DON'T CARE
TO REMEMBER THE "FAMILY" THAT WAS THERE WHEN HE FOUND HIMSELF
IN THE HOSPITAL. HE DON'T REMEBER THE NEIGHBORS THAT HELPED
OUT SO MANY TIMES WHEN OUR JEFITA WAS HOSPITALIZED. FROM
THOSE FOLKS IN RAMONA GARDENS WHERE WE STAYED AT EVERY TIME
MY MOM HAD TO CHECK INTO GENERAL HOSPITAL, TO THAT OLE' LADY
IN DOG TOWN WHO HAD VERY LIL' TO OFFER BUT HER WARMTH AND
SMILES GAVE US COMFORT, TO THEM COMADRES WHO CAME OVER AND
LOOKED AFTER MY MOM AT HER BED. "MEXICAN FOLKS" FULL OF HEART
AND FULL OF CARING RESPECT.

PEOPLE ASK WHAT'S IN MEXICO TAHT IS SO APPEALING TO CHUNTIS?
IT IS THE PEOPLE, IT IS THEIR HERITAGE, IT IS THEIR ATTITUDE THAT
CELEBRATES EVERY OCCASSION IN COMMUNION WITH FAMILY.

YOU SAY MEXICO IS POOR? MEXICO IS WEALTHIER THAN MOST IN
NATURAL RESOURCES AND ITS PEOPLE. MEXICO HOWEVER HAS BEEN
POISONED BY CENTURIES OF INDOCTRINATION AND SUBMERSSION.

MEXICO'S PROBLEMS IS IN THE FACT, THAT OUR SOULS ARE SO CLOSE
TO GOD, BUT SO NEAR THE UNITED STATES.

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Unread post by kushsmoke » March 27th, 2007, 3:23 pm

Lonewolf wrote: I SAID IT BEFORE, MY
OWN BROTHER DON'T SPEAK SPANISH. HE'S ALL UP IN A DIFFERENT
WORLD THAT DENIES AND REJECTS HIS ROOTS AND HERITAGE.

CHICANO STUFF IS COOL TO HIM, BUT THAT'S A FAR AS HE'LL GET
TO BEING MEXICAN. BUT HE AIN'T WHITE AND MESTIZO BLOOD RUNS
THROUGH OUR VEINS.
thats where the divide is. it causes people on both sides to say "f*ck them"

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 27th, 2007, 11:04 pm

mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:[/i]
Now I would respond to your other post but I would just be repeating myself due to your lack of reading comprehension. It already is clear to me that this debate is going around in circles. I will in near future post a reply but right now I don't have the time. Your are going to have to wait for the weekend. But the next time I post it will be my last one on this subject.
You stupidity increses with every post. First you're proud that Mexicans have replaced the mule, here in the US. Second, you're claiming a country that just doesn't give sh-it about you. Now you're pumping up a few greedyass heroin addicts who don't give a sh-it about you or your country. I say your priorities are ALL fu-cked up and it shows.

Image

Image

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 27th, 2007, 11:24 pm

mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote: [/i]
Yeah, that's right, I got family in Guerrero right now producing the heroin your whore dick sucking mother, cousins, and aunts buy and shoot up with. ELA is good for that business. Nothing but generation after generation fu-- up cholito ass tecatos just waiting to use that black tar. I would much rather be known for supplying the drugs rather than be the hepless little coward ass chicanos that are shacking for the next fix. Yeah we Mexicans supply you coward as chicanos just buy. And tell your mother and the other females, I mean women, in your family that is time to shave their eyebrows, now put that picture in your avatar.
They aren't doing a damn thing but ruining your country in a big way you dumbfu-ck.

A recipe for violence in Mexico City
Homicide victim
Poverty, corruption and drug wars feed escalating crime
August 23, 1997
Web posted at: 8:00 p.m. EDT (0000 GMT)

MEXICO CITY (CNN) -- The world's most populated metropolis is in the midst of a crime wave that has even the most jaded of residents shocked. By conservative estimates, the casualty scale has climbed to an average of 16 murders a day. And the police are widely perceived as too corrupt to tackle the crisis.

Robberies and botched kidnappings are commonplace. The city's poor neighborhoods remain the most crime-filled, with poverty fueling much of the violence. But wealthier areas are not immune either. Just last week, the brother of Mexico's finance minister was gunned down in his own driveway, in the posh Lomas de Chapultepec district. The government claims the motive was robbery. But given the tumultuous events in Mexico's recent history, there's speculation the real reason may be very different.

Police corruption adds to the mix
There is another ingredient in the blend of carnage and fear. Police corruption, long a blight on the city's reputation, exacerbates the crisis. Over the past year, the government has deployed soldiers in some parts of the capital to bolster a sagging security network. But many observers say the status quo cannot change unless sweeping change occurs.

Jorge Fernandez, a crime analyst, put it this way: "Until there is police reform ... until we improve conditions for the police, until we clean up police corruption, we will not win the war against crime."

That is easier said than done. Mexico City's police have long complained that they are overworked and underpaid. And the very observers who decry police corruption admit that the reasons for the rot are largely economic.

But the more cynical of Mexico City's residents say a single man cannot transform a system decades in the making. They point to the fact that Cardenas has yet to reveal a strategy. In the meantime, trends point to a steady worsening of crime over the coming months. And that will make the new mayor's task even harder, perhaps well nigh impossible, once he finds himself in charge of a city suffocated by despair.

CNN Mexico City Bureau Chief Chris Kline and the Associated Press contributed to this report.


http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... e&ei=UTF-8

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 27th, 2007, 11:35 pm

mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote: [/i]

Yeah, that's right, I got family in Guerrero right now producing the heroin your whore dick sucking mother, cousins, and aunts buy and shoot up with. ELA is good for that business. Nothing but generation after generation fu-- up cholito ass tecatos just waiting to use that black tar. I would much rather be known for supplying the drugs rather than be the hepless little coward ass chicanos that are shacking for the next fix. Yeah we Mexicans supply you coward as chicanos just buy. And tell your mother and the other females, I mean women, in your family that is time to shave their eyebrows, now put that picture in your avatar.

Now I would respond to your other post but I would just be repeating myself due to your lack of reading comprehension. It already is clear to me that this debate is going around in circles. I will in near future post a reply but right now I don't have the time. Your are going to have to wait for the weekend. But the next time I post it will be my last one on this subject.
Sounds you could be in this story.

Tunnels to U.S. fraught with danger
Los Angeles Times
Seeking smugglers of people or drugs a mile inside a drainage tunnel, Border Patrol Agent Jim Amstedz yanks open a steel gate that marks the U.S.-Mexican border. Agents Scott Connors, left, and Scott Wencel are ready for anything.

NOGALES, Mexico — One mile deep into the drafty tunnel under this hilly frontier city, a flashlight beam cuts through the pitch-black darkness and illuminates a yellow line painted on the concrete wall: the U.S.-Mexico border.

Just beyond the boundary, a message believed to have been scrawled by U.S. law enforcement warns intruders: "USA Tunnel Rats. Este lugar es de nosotros" — This place is ours.

Not exactly.

Inside the largest known tunnels on the border — two passages that make up an enormous drainage system linking Nogales, Mexico, with Nogales, Ariz. — migrants stumble blindly through toxic puddles and duck low-flying bats. Methamphetamine-addicted assailants lurk. And young men working as drug mules lug burlap sacks filled with contraband.

There are shootouts and rapes. Floodwaters sweep people to their deaths. U.S. Border Patrol agents pursue smugglers in frenzied chases, insults and threats echoing as they go. And tangles of rebar metal — points sharpened by smugglers — gouge people who get too close to some walls.

"It's another world down there," said Pat Thompson, a police detective in Nogales, Ariz. "You don't know what to expect."

As the United States makes plans to fence much of the border above ground, the situation below ground could grow increasingly chaotic. Authorities have discovered dozens of illegal tunnels in recent years, including a nearly half-mile passage connecting Tijuana with San Diego.

Illegal immigrants have breached drainage systems all the way along the border, from El Paso, Texas, to San Diego. Most of them are of the claustrophobic, crawl-through variety that prevents large-scale incursions.

The Nogales tunnels, by comparison, are superhighways.

Once open waterways, today they stretch for miles under the traffic-clogged downtown streets of both cities, bending and zigzagging roughly parallel to each other.

In the smaller one, called the Morley Tunnel, an ankle-high stream of raw sewage and chemical runoff from factories in Mexico usually flows. The neighboring Grand Tunnel is up to 15 feet high and wide enough to fit a Humvee. Dozens of illegal immigrants can travel through it at one time.

Above ground, fences, sensors and stadium lighting clearly separate the two cities. Underground, they remain linked of necessity by the system built decades ago to channel torrential rains.

The tunnels' beginnings

The tunnels doubled as smuggling routes from the beginning. For many years, gangs of children took control of the passages. Nogales police once encountered Mexican soldiers on the U.S. side, prompting a brief but tense standoff.

In recent years, the Border Patrol has had some success stemming the underground flow of illegal immigrants and drugs by installing heavy steel doors, surveillance cameras and sensors. But when heavy rains this summer caused floodwaters that tore down the gates, smugglers ripped down the cameras and shattered the lights and siren used to discourage incursions — and the chaotic human flow resumed.

From July through October, agents apprehended 1,704 illegal immigrants in the tunnels, a nearly five-fold increase from the previous six months. Agents seized more than a ton of marijuana from tunnel arrests during the same period. In July, bandits raped two women from Oaxaca, Mexico, in the tunnels on the Mexican side.

This summer, five people are believed to have drowned after being caught in floodwater. Two others fell into a sewage drain branching off one tunnel and were carried nine miles before being discovered alive in a shaft near a sewage-treatment plant.

Imelda Guevara Lopez, 17, said she survived by never letting go of her friend's hand as she struggled to keep her head above the flow of raw sewage. Lopez, whose backside was shredded by the concrete walls, told workers at a migrant shelter in Mexico that she would never again enter the underground.

"I prefer working in the fields and being poor but alive," said Lopez, who went home to Hidalgo, according to an account in a Mexican newspaper.

Dizzying, dangerous trek

Patrolling the tunnels is a tactical nightmare for law enforcement on both sides of the border, mainly U.S. Border Patrol agents and Grupo Beta, Mexico's migrant safety force.

U.S. agents often can't go into the Morley Tunnel because overpowering ammonia and chlorine smells leave them nauseated and dizzy. On the Mexican side, some stretches of the tunnel are so low that Grupo Beta agents ride their all-terrain vehicles lying on their stomachs.

Teams of U.S. agents enter the Grand Tunnel daily, sometimes toting M-4 assault rifles. But their high-tech night-vision goggles are rendered almost useless in the tunnel's black-hole-like reaches.

"It's so dark you feel vertigo, like the walls are coming in on you," Agent Scott Wencel said.

The darkness is so thick that migrants sometimes cross within an arm's length of U.S. agents without noticing. That's the agents' preferred tactic: lying in wait, pressed against the walls, letting groups pass before pouncing and cutting off any escape back to Mexico.

If the migrants manage to evade agents in the tunnels, another huge challenge remains: getting out. People pop up from manholes into the middle of busy streets, sometimes stopping traffic. Curb storm drains are often too small, so smugglers use 20-ton hydraulic jacks to pry them open so people can squeeze through.

Some grates have been opened so often that Nogales city workers have placed huge boulders and concrete blocks on top of them. At a park, one manhole was covered with a steel plate and a bench to prevent repeated breaches.

Now, many migrants walk a mile past where the border is marked underground to reach the open ends of the drainage tunnels. Outside again, they climb an embankment to waiting cars.

Border Patrol agents hope to regain control of the tunnels after the rains stop and they are able to repair the gates and cameras at the border. But Mexican authorities doubt that it will make much of a long-term difference.

The migrants, they say, are willing to brave anything to get through. Every day, they see the evidence of the risks the illegal immigrants take: the scattered clothing, letters and family pictures left behind by bandits rummaging through migrants' stolen backpacks; the prayer books and offerings left behind by illegal immigrants in a tunnel nook fashioned into a shrine to the Virgin of Guadalupe.

Enrique Palafox, the Nogales director of Grupo Beta, was shot in the chest by bandits years ago in a tunnel battle. He still patrols the passages every day. "I like it down here. It's so quiet, and I know that when I'm here, the migrants are safe," he said.

But Palafox's force can't patrol the tunnels 24 hours a day. A message for migrants has been spray-painted on the wall just before the yellow line marking the frontier.

Believed to have been written by Beta agents, it reads: "Cuidense" — Be careful.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

Sentenza
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Unread post by Sentenza » March 28th, 2007, 4:42 am

ok lets take this on top again

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Unread post by frozen fire » March 28th, 2007, 4:58 am

man this site is under attack!

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Unread post by johnnnny » March 28th, 2007, 5:04 am

yep and nothing is being done about it, im sure CM sent them a warning....

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 28th, 2007, 11:45 am

VOTE FOR LONEWOLF ~~>

I'LL CLEAN THIS MOFO TOWN UP IN NO TIME :twisted:

PUT YOU ALL IN STRIPES AND SEND EVERYONE "BACK" :wink:
TO THEIR CORNERS UNTIL THE BELL RINGS AND THEN COME
OUT WITH YOURS FISTS UP.

NOW WHOEMEVA' IS STILL SPARKING IT UP ON THE SIDE
WITH THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED ~~> RELAY THIS
~~> LONEWOLF WOULD SET UP A PLAYGROUND FOR THEM
COMPLETE WITH YOGA CLASSES AND SPIT SWAPPING
CONTESTS. SANDWICHES :twisted: WILL BE INCLUDED
AND ALL IN A PRIVATE SETTING WHERE ONLY PU'TOS CAN
HANG OUT IN.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 28th, 2007, 6:27 pm

Lonewolf wrote:YOU ARE WITNESSING FOR YOURSELF WHAT LIES BENEATH.

I TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE AND TOUCHED UPON IT ON MANY TOPICS.

FEW ARE THE ONES THAT WILL OUTRIGHT ADMIT IT LIKE ROLLIN' BUT
IS THERE. EVEN MY OWN FAMILY HAS IT OWN. I SAID IT BEFORE, MY
OWN BROTHER DON'T SPEAK SPANISH. HE'S ALL UP IN A DIFFERENT
WORLD THAT DENIES AND REJECTS HIS ROOTS AND HERITAGE.

CHICANO STUFF IS COOL TO HIM, BUT THAT'S A FAR AS HE'LL GET
TO BEING MEXICAN. BUT HE AIN'T WHITE AND MESTIZO BLOOD RUNS
THROUGH OUR VEINS. I SUPPOSE THAT HIS PROSPERITY AND HIS
CHICANO CULTURAL POPULARITY GOT THE BEST OF HIM.

HE DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WE WENT THROUGH IN SCHOOL. HE DON'T
REMEMBER THE NAME CALLING. HE DON'T REMEMBER THE SCOOP UPS
BY THE FUZZ AND DROP OFFS ON ENEMY TERRITORY. HE DON'T CARE
TO REMEMBER THE "FAMILY" THAT WAS THERE WHEN HE FOUND HIMSELF
IN THE HOSPITAL. HE DON'T REMEBER THE NEIGHBORS THAT HELPED
OUT SO MANY TIMES WHEN OUR JEFITA WAS HOSPITALIZED. FROM
THOSE FOLKS IN RAMONA GARDENS WHERE WE STAYED AT EVERY TIME
MY MOM HAD TO CHECK INTO GENERAL HOSPITAL, TO THAT OLE' LADY
IN DOG TOWN WHO HAD VERY LIL' TO OFFER BUT HER WARMTH AND
SMILES GAVE US COMFORT, TO THEM COMADRES WHO CAME OVER AND
LOOKED AFTER MY MOM AT HER BED. "MEXICAN FOLKS" FULL OF HEART
AND FULL OF CARING RESPECT.

PEOPLE ASK WHAT'S IN MEXICO TAHT IS SO APPEALING TO CHUNTIS?
IT IS THE PEOPLE, IT IS THEIR HERITAGE, IT IS THEIR ATTITUDE THAT
CELEBRATES EVERY OCCASSION IN COMMUNION WITH FAMILY.

YOU SAY MEXICO IS POOR? MEXICO IS WEALTHIER THAN MOST IN
NATURAL RESOURCES AND ITS PEOPLE. MEXICO HOWEVER HAS BEEN
POISONED BY CENTURIES OF INDOCTRINATION AND SUBMERSSION.

MEXICO'S PROBLEMS IS IN THE FACT, THAT OUR SOULS ARE SO CLOSE
TO GOD, BUT SO NEAR THE UNITED STATES.
No disrespect but are you originally from Mexico?

I guess you and I see things differently. What you're saying is, that to be "Mexican" you have to be a certain way. But I sense some bias and resentment in your argument toward the American Chicano. Because you are quick to remind us about what we are NOT doing to help our Raza's image. What I haven't seen you do is point out all the bullsh-it that Mexicans from Mexico do to destroy the Raza's image. You never post anything about the druglords who are poisoning, corrupting, and directly or indirectly killing the masses. You never bring up the fact that people from Mexico, simply don't want to change, and are OK with being poor, ignorant, etc., which I think is an embarrassment but that's just me. You don't post any blame toward the corrupt politicians who I think hold the most responsibility for stealing everything from the masses and leaving them out to dry. You don't fault Mexico's eduational system or most parents for not pushing their kids to learn something. So who's really not with the program? Is it American Chicanos or is it the average Mexican from Mexico?


On another note, I say Mexican Americans can live our lives anyway we want to live our lives. Unless somebody is going around saying that he/she isn't Raza, when he/she is, then that's a problem. Otherwise, a Chicano is a Chicano whether he or she is a doctor, politician, lawyer, artist, cholo, square, hoodlum, thug, poet, scientist whatever. If people want to stay stuck in the old Mexico ways, where there was no chance for mobility, then they're free to do that but don't expect the next Chicano to follow. This the USA and we do things our own way.

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 28th, 2007, 9:19 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
No disrespect but are you originally from Mexico?
No Holmes, born in Tejas ~~> raised in SOx CAL.
So too was my jefitos and mis abuelos. In my whole familia, there's
the ratio of well over 4 (Chicanos) to 1 (Mexican). We been in the
Southwest since my tatara-buelos. That's going back close to a century.
But that's all kind of irrelevant if you where to ask me. Most of my
family, wether in Tejas, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona, Central or Southern
Califas, Baja or Chihuhua, Kansas, Coloroda or Luisiana, don't matter
us none ~~> we're all Family, and we're all Mexicans in ancestry and
Chicanos in attitude and American or Mexican in citizenship.
I guess you and I see things differently. What you're saying is, that to be "Mexican" you have to be a certain way. But I sense some bias and resentment in your argument toward the American Chicano. Because you are quick to remind us about what we are NOT doing to help our Raza's image. What I haven't seen you do is point out all the bullsh-it that Mexicans from Mexico do to destroy the Raza's image. You never post anything about the druglords who are poisoning, corrupting, and directly or indirectly killing the masses. You never bring up the fact that people from Mexico, simply don't want to change, and are OK with being poor, ignorant, etc., which I think is an embarrassment but that's just me. You don't post any blame toward the corrupt politicians who I think hold the most responsibility for stealing everything from the masses and leaving them out to dry. You don't fault Mexico's eduational system or most parents for not pushing their kids to learn something. So who's really not with the program? Is it American Chicanos or is it the average Mexican from Mexico?
We see things differently in the sense that I don't
go blaming the poor-average Mexicans for the plight they find themselves in. The beauty that the people hold, the beauty and wealth that the
country and land of Mexico has is overpowering ~~> I ask you ~~>
You ever seen it with your own eyes? Or do you simply beleive what tv
and Lou Dobbs feeds you. All those things that you accuse Mexicans of
being are true to an extent, but many things have been "beyond" their
control. Education is for sure "the key" to improving their lives, but that
is only a part of the battle to be fought. Degradation of the spirit is real,
and subjugation of the mind is real too. Even religion has a role in how
the average-poor Mexican was enslaved and kept under bondage for
centuries. But do not fool yourself thinking that that's all there is to Mexico
You know what ~~> there's just so many issues involved and so many
powerful special interests involved in it all.. You gotta ask why in well
over a century of immigration, reaching in the tens of millions ~~> why
has not the U.S. government and it's industry ever really cared to seal
the border? The most powerful nation in the world, with the vast amount
of superior minds and technology ~~> or so it boasts every day, "can't
or wont" secure the border. ~~> WHY?

The issue that I take whit some who per say ~~> take on the term/name
Chicano and yet trash on those who gave to us ~~> part of our heritage
and culture. How can you despise and attack your "ancestors" . . I mean,
you're not white nor anglo, you're mexican in bloodline for gosh sake!!!
Now wether is true or not about all those things you feel about Mexican
government and society, it is still "your roots." But if you despise it so
much, then why even f*ck around with taking on a name and an identity
that clearly denotes ~~> affiliation with Mexico & Mexicans?

You can't have it both ways. Either you're associate or disassociate, and
if you chose to associate ~~> then for God's sake ~~> learn the truth
that lies underneath it all ~~> so that you're able to understand the real
forces at work which create the conditions for so much poverty & corruption.

I'm not saying don't love America, and I'm not saying not to appreciate
what it has offered you and countless millions. But just like you stated
that I'm always ignoring the bad images that Mexican bring up on La Raza
~~> so too, you must neither trash it without understanding the damage
you too create with your mis-understanding of what Mexico really is.
You mentioned all that poison they bring up, well who consumes it and
who has the dollars that deposits so much power in the hands of those
drug lords? It surely ain't those poor bastards sneaking across the river.
It is Chicanos and Americans like you and me, who be purchasing their
merchandise and it is our gun manufacturers who produce them guns.

On another note, I say Mexican Americans can live our lives anyway we want to live our lives. Unless somebody is going around saying that he/she isn't Raza, when he/she is, then that's a problem. Otherwise, a Chicano is a Chicano whether he or she is a doctor, politician, lawyer, artist, cholo, square, hoodlum, thug, poet, scientist whatever. If people want to stay stuck in the old Mexico ways, where there was no chance for mobility, then they're free to do that but don't expect the next Chicano to follow. This the USA and we do things our own way.
And all those things, all those professions ~~> you find amongst the
every day millions of Mexicans south of the border.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 29th, 2007, 12:09 am

We see things differently in the sense that I don't
go blaming the poor-average Mexicans for the plight they find themselves in.
Who do you blame? Chicanos? The USA? :roll Anybody but Mexicans right?
The beauty that the people hold, the beauty and wealth that the
country and land of Mexico has is overpowering ~~> I ask you ~~>
There are alot of beautiful countries. What does that have to do with its plight?
You ever seen it with your own eyes?


Ive seen poverty which is why I don't understand how the Mexican government doesn't do enough to help its own citizens. I'm not saying don't help those people but give them the opportunity to help themselves if they want to be helped. Don't go pointing fingers and blaming outsiders for their situation.
Or do you simply beleive what tv and Lou Dobbs feeds you.
Who is Lou Dobbs?
All those things that you accuse Mexicans of
being are true to an extent, but many things have been "beyond" their
control. Education is for sure "the key" to improving their lives, but that
is only a part of the battle to be fought. Degradation of the spirit is real,
and subjugation of the mind is real too. Even religion has a role in how
the average-poor Mexican was enslaved and kept under bondage for
centuries.
Whose fault is that and why haven't you put their names out there?
But do not fool yourself thinking that that's all there is to Mexico
You know what ~~> there's just so many issues involved and so many
powerful special interests involved in it all.. You gotta ask why in well
over a century of immigration, reaching in the tens of millions ~~> why
has not the U.S. government and it's industry ever really cared to seal
the border? The most powerful nation in the world, with the vast amount
of superior minds and technology ~~> or so it boasts every day, "can't
or wont" secure the border. ~~> WHY?
The immigration problem hasn't been as bad as it is today. Maybe they're starting to see the light like Chicanos have done. Mexico can't do sh-it for them and so they split.
The issue that I take whit some who per say ~~> take on the term/name
Chicano and yet trash on those who gave to us ~~> part of our heritage
and culture. How can you despise and attack your "ancestors" . . I mean,
you're not white nor anglo, you're mexican in bloodline for gosh sake!!!
Now wether is true or not about all those things you feel about Mexican
government and society, it is still "your roots." But if you despise it so
much, then why even f*ck around with taking on a name and an identity
that clearly denotes ~~> affiliation with Mexico & Mexicans?
Hold on just a minute. I'm sensing just a little bit of hypocrisy. You spend most of your time on this board bragging about Mexico and talking against American Chicanos. Look at the title of this thread:"Chicanos no longer wish to be considered Mexican." Then, dude up there starts disrespecting Chicanos talking about we're drug addicts, etc.. You didn't say sh-it! So if somebody disrespects me and mine then you're damn right I'm going to give it right back. Why not just renounce your Chicano background and become a Mexican citizen? Chicanos don't need people who are going to try to bring us down. That's why I give people the fu-ck you finger. I'm going to do what I do cause at the end of the day, I'm still Chicano. If people don't like it, hey, TOUGH SH-IT. lol There is a bunch of stuff that I don't like about some people but my opinion don't mean anything--so it's mutual.
You can't have it both ways. Either you're associate or disassociate, and
if you chose to associate ~~> then for God's sake ~~> learn the truth
that lies underneath it all ~~> so that you're able to understand the real
forces at work which create the conditions for so much poverty & corruption.
No, I am not a Mexican citizen who is stuck in the 17th century. I am a Mexican American in the year 2007. God's sake? Oh so you religious now?
I have an idea of what lies beneath Mexico's plight but who in their right mind wants to continue to live that way?
You mentioned all that poison they bring up, well who consumes it and
who has the dollars that deposits so much power in the hands of those
drug lords? It surely ain't those poor bastards sneaking across the river.
It is Chicanos and Americans like you and me, who be purchasing their
merchandise and it is our gun manufacturers who produce them guns.
So you're blaming Americans because some druggies decide that they want to act like greedy pigs? BULLSH-IT! They're grownass men and they do it because they want to do it! They know that they're destroying people's lives and they do it anyway just for few bucks. With all the violence and corruption they cause I say they're selling out! Placing blame on Chicanos lol I had to laugh. If the druggies wouldn't push their product then there wouldn't be any drugs on the market would there?
And all those things, all those professions ~~> you find amongst the
every day millions of Mexicans south of the border.
Good, I wish the successful ones would use their money to help their own. Maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 29th, 2007, 11:03 am

Ok MR CHICANO ~~> go ahead and be like most ~~> TWIST SH*T UP
AND PRETEND THAT YOU'RE A BEACON OF LIGHT. PRETEND THAT US
CHICANOS ARE ALL THAT, PERO SABES QUE? YOU DON'T HAVE TO
CONVINVCE ME OF IT ~~. YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE YOUR UNCLE SAM
CAUSE HE'S STILL TREATING YOU JUST LIKE THE REST OF US MOJADOS
HE'S STILL ENCARCERATING YOU AND HE'S STILL CRIMINALIZING YOUR
OFFSPRING AND HE'S STILL SENDING YOUR BRO'S AND COUSINS OVER
TO FIGHT FOR BUSH & CHENEY'S OIL. HOPW YOU FEEL REAL PROUD OF
WHAT THEY FIGHT FOR. OH YEAH, MAKE SURE YOU TAKE A DRIVE DOWN
TO THE REAL MEXICO AND SEE JUST HOW DEGENERATE AND UGLY IT IS
MAYBE THEN YOU'LL REALIZE WHY SO MANY BOOK FLIGHTS DOWN HERE
AS OPPOSED TO EAST L.A. HOMEBOY.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 29th, 2007, 12:25 pm

Lonewolf wrote:Ok MR CHICANO ~~> go ahead and be like most ~~> TWIST SH*T UP
AND PRETEND THAT YOU'RE A BEACON OF LIGHT. PRETEND THAT US
CHICANOS ARE ALL THAT, PERO SABES QUE? YOU DON'T HAVE TO
CONVINVCE ME OF IT ~~. YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE YOUR UNCLE SAM
CAUSE HE'S STILL TREATING YOU JUST LIKE THE REST OF US MOJADOS
HE'S STILL ENCARCERATING YOU AND HE'S STILL CRIMINALIZING YOUR
OFFSPRING AND HE'S STILL SENDING YOUR BRO'S AND COUSINS OVER
TO FIGHT FOR BUSH & CHENEY'S OIL. HOPW YOU FEEL REAL PROUD OF
WHAT THEY FIGHT FOR. OH YEAH, MAKE SURE YOU TAKE A DRIVE DOWN
TO THE REAL MEXICO AND SEE JUST HOW DEGENERATE AND UGLY IT IS
MAYBE THEN YOU'LL REALIZE WHY SO MANY BOOK FLIGHTS DOWN HERE
AS OPPOSED TO EAST L.A. HOMEBOY.
I haven't twisted anything. I am telling you the real. It's obvious now that you don't want to deal with the real issues. You would rather point fingers, downgrade Chicanos, and romanticize Mexico into something that we know isn't true. Right now, you sound just as corrupt and twisted as the politicians, police, and druglords in 3rd world Mexico--it is in fact a 3rd world country (in case you forgot). It was my mistake to think that you were down to talk some truth. But you don't want truth.

Also, you see Chicanos as inferior to, for example Anglos. You really think that for a Chicano to have success, he must disassociate himself from his ancestry. You're basically saying that because some of us aren't following the footsteps of our "ancestors" that we are denying our heritage. That is the dumbest thing I've heard in a some time. If you want to continue the old Mexico ways then go ahead but don't try to bring everybody else down with you. You know the old saying "misery loves company" ain't happening here.

If dudes want to sign up for the military and fight in iraq then they do so on their own accord. Why would you diss bush when you and him are the same breed of cat. Cowboy politics, denial, and resistance to change are what you're both about.

Everybody pays Uncle Sam. You included.

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 29th, 2007, 3:34 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote: I haven't twisted anything. I am telling you the real. It's obvious now that you don't want to deal with the real issues. You would rather point fingers, downgrade Chicanos, and romanticize Mexico into something that we know isn't true.
Whos' downgrading Chicanos? You must be deaf and blind Rollin . . .
Every day I stand up and put out something about our clean style and
every day you can go into my blog pages and read the many articles
that give props to our Chicano culture. Man you're a fool to label me
otherwise.. You are correct in the part about me romanticizing Mexico,
but I strongly disagree with you in the picture you try to present about
Mexico <cause> bigger that you can imagine with that big ego of yours.
Also, you see Chicanos as inferior to, for example Anglos. You really think that for a Chicano to have success, he must disassociate himself from his ancestry. You're basically saying that because some of us aren't following the footsteps of our "ancestors" that we are denying our heritage. That is the dumbest thing I've heard in a some time. If you want to continue the old Mexico ways then go ahead but don't try to bring everybody else down with you. You know the old saying "misery loves company" ain't happening here.
When have you ever heard me say that Chicanos are inferior?
You must have some serious comprehension problem.
Quite the opposite my man, I will never hold no man superior to another,
be they Chicano, Black, Mexican, White, Jew, Gay or whatever "NEVER"
on the other hand "YOU" do beleive yourself as superior than others -right!
If dudes want to sign up for the military and fight in iraq then they do so on their own accord. Why would you diss bush when you and him are the same breed of cat. Cowboy politics, denial, and resistance to change are what you're both about.
You don't even understand a simple issue as why so many of our young
students have to sign up for funds to continue on to higher education.
They have to put their studies on hold so that they can gather some small
funds from military service because their folks can't afford to pay for their
college. Chicano (Mexican0-American) youths are the number one target
for recruiters because the government knows this "fact" and instead of
providing better funds, grants & loans to our "educated youth" they instead
prey on them, while other "Americans" are given first shot at tuition.
But don't take my word on this ~~> go do your homework on that, then
come tell me about "if a dude want's to sign freely for war in Iraq"..
Everybody pays Uncle Sam. You included.
Yes we do ~~> some more than they have too. Some give Uncle Sam
their ignorant and blind obediance.

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Unread post by MARTINEZ » March 29th, 2007, 4:09 pm

DAMN :shock:

What's up EAST SIDERS :lol:

I've been missing some good sh-it around here :wink:

How about discussing some of this sh-it of some Cold Pistos :lol:

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Unread post by Lonewolf » March 29th, 2007, 5:05 pm

MARTINEZ wrote:DAMN :shock:

What's up EAST SIDERS :lol:

I've been missing some good sh-it around here :wink:

How about discussing some of this sh-it of some Cold Pistos :lol:
Nah, I'm just fuckin' with Rollin a tid-bit . . .

What good is a Forum without a Good Debate :D

But you all know very well that few things in life get me all wired up
~~> I hear sh*t being said bout Mexicans, Y LA CRESTA SE ME PARA :arrow:

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Unread post by MARTINEZ » March 30th, 2007, 9:17 am

Lobo: A mi se me para otra cosa :lol:

Rollin: What's up with your homeboy Spanky's little brother: Frank Alvares? Is he still doing movies?

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 31st, 2007, 1:41 pm

Lonewolf wrote:
MY
OWN BROTHER DON'T SPEAK SPANISH. HE'S ALL UP IN A DIFFERENT
WORLD THAT DENIES AND REJECTS HIS ROOTS AND HERITAGE.

CHICANO STUFF IS COOL TO HIM, BUT THAT'S A FAR AS HE'LL GET
TO BEING MEXICAN. BUT HE AIN'T WHITE AND MESTIZO BLOOD RUNS
THROUGH OUR VEINS. I SUPPOSE THAT HIS PROSPERITY AND HIS
CHICANO CULTURAL POPULARITY GOT THE BEST OF HIM.
When have you ever heard me say that Chicanos are inferior?
You must have some serious comprehension problem.
Quite the opposite my man, I will never hold no man superior to another,
be they Chicano, Black, Mexican, White, Jew, Gay or whatever "NEVER"
on the other hand "YOU" do beleive yourself as superior than others -right!
This quote says it all. You believe that because this dude, your own brother, doesn't want to continue or accept the "role" given to him by his poor Mexican ancestors, that he somehow has lost perspective in life. In other words, he's just stupid and doesn't know any better. I assume that he has friends outside of the Raza and to find himself acceptable among those people, he must "disassociate" himself. So you're saying he can't be Mexican American and be successful because Mexican Americans are inferior and he doesn't fit the prototype model for a Mexican American.
Whos' downgrading Chicanos? You must be deaf and blind Rollin . .

I do not make sh-it up just for fun.
Yes we do ~~> some more than they have too. Some give Uncle Sam
their ignorant and blind obediance.
You contradict yourself all the time.
Every day I stand up and put out something about our clean style and
every day you can go into my blog pages and read the many articles
that give props to our Chicano culture.
Contradiction:
Ok MR CHICANO ~~> go ahead and be like most ~~> TWIST SH*T UP
AND PRETEND THAT YOU'RE A BEACON OF LIGHT. PRETEND THAT US
CHICANOS ARE ALL THAT, PERO SABES QUE? YOU DON'T HAVE TO
CONVINVCE ME OF IT ~~. YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE YOUR UNCLE SAM
CAUSE HE'S STILL TREATING YOU JUST LIKE THE REST OF US MOJADOS
HE'S STILL ENCARCERATING YOU AND HE'S STILL CRIMINALIZING YOUR
OFFSPRING AND HE'S STILL SENDING YOUR BRO'S AND COUSINS OVER
TO FIGHT FOR BUSH & CHENEY'S OIL. HOPW YOU FEEL REAL PROUD OF
WHAT THEY FIGHT FOR. OH YEAH, MAKE SURE YOU TAKE A DRIVE DOWN
TO THE REAL MEXICO AND SEE JUST HOW DEGENERATE AND UGLY IT IS
MAYBE THEN YOU'LL REALIZE WHY SO MANY BOOK FLIGHTS DOWN HERE
AS OPPOSED TO EAST L.A. HOMEBOY.
It's because of quotes like these.
"CHICANOS NO LONGER DESIRE TO BE PART OF MEXICO."
The Chicano Mind is one in dispute even to this day. If dollars and gadgets can make you a believer who does not question how it all comes about and how it all becomes a reality to your benefit ~~> if that is so <~~ then I can understand why you no longer align with the Original Chicano.
MEXICO'S PROBLEMS IS IN THE FACT, THAT OUR SOULS ARE SO CLOSE
TO GOD, BUT SO NEAR THE UNITED STATES.
That's deep haterism right there.
Meanwhile, the United States is taking pity on Mexico's a-ss by providing jobs, other welfare, and protection from foreign invasion. :idea:
The issue that I take whit some who per say ~~> take on the term/name
Chicano and yet trash on those who gave to us ~~> part of our heritage
and culture. How can you despise and attack your "ancestors" . . I mean,
you're not white nor anglo, you're mexican in bloodline for gosh sake!!!
Now wether is true or not about all those things you feel about Mexican
government and society, it is still "your roots." But if you despise it so
much, then why even f*ck around with taking on a name and an identity
that clearly denotes ~~> affiliation with Mexico & Mexicans? You can't have it both ways. Either you're associate or disassociate, and
if you chose to associate
What you saying? Chicanos don't have a right to tell it like it is? Do we not have a right to make corrections in past errors? If we see a family member jump off a cliff, are we obligated to follow?
You mentioned all that poison they bring up, well who consumes it and
who has the dollars that deposits so much power in the hands of those
drug lords? It is Chicanos and Americans like you and me, who be purchasing their
merchandise and it is our gun manufacturers who produce them guns
The word cholo means half breed, like meztizo, only in a more deragatory sense. Used to label Mexicans in the U.S. who neither fit in with U.S. or Mexican culture,

You don't even understand a simple issue as why so many of our young
students have to sign up for funds to continue on to higher education.
They have to put their studies on hold so that they can gather some small
funds from military service because their folks can't afford to pay for their
college. Chicano (Mexican0-American) youths are the number one target
for recruiters because the government knows this "fact" and instead of
providing better funds, grants & loans to our "educated youth" they instead
prey on them, while other "Americans" are given first shot at tuition.
But don't take my word on this ~~> go do your homework on that, then
come tell me about "if a dude want's to sign freely for war in Iraq"..
I know exactly the reasons people sign up for the military. Some people perceive little alternative. The key word is "perceive" because that isn't the reality. The reality here in the USA is that they could work or go to school. There are student loans, scholarships, and grants available for those who seek them out. Some people just like to fight and feel like they have something to prove, so they willingly sign up for the military. People do because they want to do. Yes Chicanos are targeted for the Service but the important thing is that we have the voice to say "no." [/url]

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » March 31st, 2007, 1:56 pm

Another thing Lonewolf, ain't NO LOVE coming out of the person who wrote this article. I don't care who wrote it...it's hate, disrespect, animosity, and envy--plain and simple.
Land usually characterizes people and gives them their major traits. Argentineans feed themselves on meat like we Mexicans eat beans and corn; corn tortillas are our daily bread. Western culture can be called the culture of wheat, while Spanish-speaking America is the culture of corn. The story of the border between the United States and Mexico has been a long and painful one. Even when Santa Ana sold half of our country, territories were already in the hands of many North American pioneers who worked the land. When a land is depopulated, or unpopulated, it is the country that settles it that becomes the owner. Texas was never integrated into Mexico. Tijuana only integrated itself during the time of ex-President Echeverria, twenty-four years ago, when his government finished the road that crossed the whole peninsula of Baja California. If one country does not populate a region, and another one does, the one who loses it is the one who has no settlements. Now the limits between our two countries are recognized internationally. Two small islands off the coast of San Diego will never be given back to Mexico, especially because on one of these islands there are military installations. In the nineteenth century, Mexicans living in the northern territories complained that, when the American government took over the land, they felt abandoned by Mexico. Mexico had never done anything for them, and, in the years in which the United States appropriated these lands, Mexico was a country that had been defeated by America. How could Mexico help or protect anyone if it could not even control the rest of the Mexican Republic which was torn apart? Texans of Latin origin, or Hispanics as they are called now, had no time to become Mexicans, and Juan Rulfo used to say that the territories that were lost were the ones that had no bishops. Catholicism as an institution was very strong at keeping a people together. As there were no bishops and no practice of this faith in these lands, adventurers like Davy Crockett or Daniel Boone were the lawmakers. To say that Mexico abandoned its people would not be false, because Mexico abandons all poor Mexicans. The poor choose the American dream and the American way of life on the other side of the border, because they don't see a future for themselves in their own country. The word Chicano, although its origin is not exactly known, probably comes from Mexica, and Mexicans from Mexico City, from Monterrey, Puebla, Guadalajara, and other big cities, consider Chicanos either to be undocumented workers and manual laborers or Mexicans who only care to imitate the Americans. "You are a traitor, you are not Mexican, you chose the United States." "Pocho, pocha, go back to your own country, you can't even speak Spanish well." If Mexicans want to be really aggressive, they become racists: "Chicanos are dark and short; they are pickers." "All that Chicanos want is to marry a blond." Or they say in Spanish: "Te crees la muy, muy" ("You think you're so special"), because they mingle with Americans. So Chicanos are caught between two worlds that reject them: Mexicans who consider them traitors, and Americans who want them only as cheap labor. No one ever seems to remember that they belonged to Texas, New Mexico and California. In a Mexican university, a Chicano student was once advised not to say that she was one, because she would not be accepted. Another aspect of this rejection of Chicanos could be envy; Mexicans yearn for the American way of life, most of all American clothes and fashions. T-shirts are diamonds. Oh, to have ten dollars in order to buy a T-shirt! Mexico is a racist country; we are racists against ourselves; out of thirty-two states, only one, Oaxaca, has an Indian governor: Heladio Ramirez. As for our skin color, we usually say that we are "cafe con leche," coffee with milk, or "apinonadito," which is the color of a pine nut. The amount of coffee and milk is the degree of segregation. Milk with only a little coffee is best for the Chicano's health. Half and half is "moreno," which is brown, and more coffee than milk is "prieto." Strong, strong black coffee in a steaming cup is a disaster and we comment: "color de piano," (black as a piano), or "Ese negro tan feo," (that ugly black). We still have no use for decaffeinated coffee, but we certainly haven't yet qualified as a delicious, richer and smoother blend for a taster's choice. So you Chicanos and Chicanas have a lot to do with the way you like your 100% freeze-dried coffee. Fifteen years ago, with Luis Valdez's movie "Zoot Suit," Mexicans discovered the extraordinary strength, the overwhelming freshness, and the real meaning of the word "Chicano." Chicano not only designated people of Mexican ancestry living in the United States, but also the social and racial discrimination, the economic exploitation of a migrant working class which crossed the Rio Grande looking for a better life. With "Zoot Suit," Mexicans also became aware of the contribution that the Chicano theater movement had made to the Chicano's search for identity, as the "Campesino Theater" was not only the starting point for Valdez's movie, but also for the Chicano's assertiveness, the Chicano's fight for recognition, the Chicano's human and political struggle towards liberation. As for the movie, "Zoot Suit," it gave a vision of Chicanos that Mexicans did not even suspect, for Chicanos were, and still are, not considered part of our culture. Even now, very few Mexican writers care for Chicano writers and poets, and even fewer women writers take Chicana writers into account. Carlos Monsivais, Jose Emilio Pacheco, Jose Agustin and Gustavo Sainz--who has been in contact with Chicanos while working in Albuquerque--are the only ones who have promoted Chicano literature. (Jose Agustin prides himself of the fact that his novel Ciudades Desiertas [Deserted Cities] is considered a Chicano novel.) In 1987, the Colegio de la Frontera Notre and the Colegio de Mexico founded the Chicano-Mexican Writers Congress that was also held in Tijuana in May 1989. Just last year, 1990, a Chicano movie festival took place in Mexico City. These last two years there has also been a campaign to welcome "Paisanos" in Mexico, and the airport was filled with posters of the Mexican idea of a Chicano: a migrant worker with a happy smile and a straw hat. "Give your hand to a Chicano." But Chicanos with American passports are still considered aliens, and women especially are seen as continuing the tradition of la Malinche,[1] the ultimate traitor, although Cortes is not the Conqueror anymore. Americans are now the Conquerors. That is why, to many of us, the movie "Zoot Suit" was so important. For more than ten years it filled the emptiness. Not only did it show us what it meant to be Chicano, but it proved that Chicanos had mastered the Anglos' filmmaking craftsmanship and technique, and that they had not lost time: they had something to say and they knew how to say it. "Zoot Suit" was sociologically valuable, a better and more expressive film than what Mexican cinema itself had achieved in our country in the last thirty years, after Gabriel Figueroa and Emilio "El Indio" Fernandez concluded the Golden Era of great Mexican movie making. We have not been able to see ourselves with the same sharpness as the Chicanos, and we are learning only now to be critical of ourselves. Why did "Zoot Suit" have such an impact on us? Because it summarized all that Chicanos had gone through in the borderlands: their fight for the land and for an identity everyone was ready to deny them. The images gave us not only the generation gap between the traditional parents (who continued living in the United States as they would have lived in their provincial and cautious Guanajuato) and their children (who spoke English and dreamt the American Dream), but the social, economic and political gap between them and the United States. "Zoot Suit" managed to portray the intimate feelings of Mexicans who had been discriminated against for years, and who continue being segregated today. Why were they discriminated against? Because they were poor. Poverty is always an offense. Because they were Indians, mestizos, not white like the Anglos, and, even if they were, they were not Anglos, for they did not know that life could be conceived of as one great big business. Suddenly they discovered that time is money--a philosophical contribution that Americans have made to the world--that technology was as sacred as any religion, and that their Catholic religion did not have the same importance in the States as it had in Mexico. In other words, they had lost their sense of belonging. German Valdez popularized "Tin Tan" in Mexico, a character who could very well be considered the first living image of the Chicano struggle, the "Pachuco." The Pachuco's aspiration was to look exactly like Clark Gable in the movie "Gone With the Wind." With his baggy pants tightly tied to his skinny waist, laughing at himself, Tin Tan almost disappeared under his super, extra-large coat with very large shoulder pads, a southern smile, a gold chain so long that it dangled to his knees, a wide hat with a huge feather, shoes too big for him, a mustache (Mexicans have always been crazy about mustaches), and a white shirt. Of course Clark Cable looked gorgeous, but the same could hardly be said of the Pachuco, whose exaggerated pants, hat, chain and jacket floated in the chilly winds of our dusty border towns. Pachucos moved in a no man's land: they were second-hand Mexicans and fifth-class Americans. Neither Tin Tan nor the Pachucos achieved social recognition. On the contrary. In Mexico, Tin Tan was criticized for popularizing a song in vaudeville night clubs and theaters that said "Este es el Pachuco, un sujeto singular" [This is the Pachuco, an outstanding fellow]. The same went for movies like "Frontera Norte" [The North Frontier] and "El Hijo Desobediente" [The Disobedient Son]. There was a press campaign saying Tin Tan offended the language; consequently he was stripped of his clothes and speech and destroyed by another comedian, Cantinflas. Nevertheless, the Pachucos remain in our minds not as grotesque figures, but as very daring and lonely ones; they were in search of an identity that both countries denied them; they were very bold in a society that rejected them; and they wanted to live among Americans who denied them political participation and human rights. Mexico, their country of origin, had not been capable of feeding them, much less giving them an identity. The United States cast them aside and blamed them for all their social ills: robberies, rapes, vandalism. They had to be the responsible ones, because they were poor, and the Pachucos lived in junk yards among abandoned cars and used refrigerators, creating their own subculture with their own Spanglish, their own music, and their own way of life. The Pachucos' challenge to society is still a valid one, even if at the time it had little to do with Reies Lopez Tijerina or Cesar Chavez's fight for the land. It is only fair to emphasize that the majority of the workers immersed in the struggle for the land are women, for they are the ones who pick the lemons, the tomatoes, the grapes, and other fruits that need delicate hands. Curiously, the old saying remains true: man plants, woman harvests. In Cesar Chavez's childhood there were signs saying "No dogs and Mexicans allowed." There was also an assistant sheriff who said, and it was published in the Department of Labor Bulletin no. 836 (1945): "We protect our farmers here in Kern County. They are our best people. They are always with us. They keep the country going. They put us in here and they can put us out again, so we serve them. But the Mexicans are trash. They have no standards of living. We herd them like pigs." Chavez's fight with his National Farm Workers Association still continues, ever since his first strike in 1965. The Union's newspaper is called "El Malcriado," the one who doesn't behave and is rude. Filipinos were brought to the United States to work before Mexicans and they were also spoken of as "the most worthless, unscrupulous, shiftless, diseased, semi-barbarian that has ever come to our shores." After the Philippine independence act of 1934, further importation of Filipinos came to an end, but Mexican braceros and day laborers were brought into California and the Southwest at harvest time and trucked out again when the harvest was over. The bracero program was a very popular one: they harvested cotton, sugar beets, oranges, lemons, and other crops. Americans would not do the hard, stooping labor strawberries required. The Mexicans' poverty was desperate. In 1959 they worked hard for sixty cents an hour. But Mexicans like to work on the earth. In the cities, even the most miserable shack has its flower pot, its "geranios," its herbs for teas. It would be impossible to separate the word Chicano from the word earth. Chicanos are linked to the earth. Migrant workers who come to the valleys of California love lemon and orange trees. They call them "los arbolitos," worry about them, think about them, and when there is a frost, "una helada," and they freeze, they pity and mourn them: "Se quemaron los arbolitos, tan bonitos que venian. Ya se murieron los pobrecitos" [Our poor little trees were killed by the frost and they were growing so beautifully]. Gaspar Rivera, who lives in the Mexican peasant town in Watsonville, California, is now one of the best students at the University of California at Santa Cruz. He is getting his Master's degree in Latin American Studies. He lived in Ciudad Nezalhualcoyotl, home to five million Mexicans. Born in Oaxaca, he is mixteco. The Mixteca is a mountain range in Mexico where it hardly rains; it used to, but the climate has changed, and now the earth only gives stones. The wind sweeps the good earth away. He came as a field worker to the Valley of Santa Cruz, to the Valley of San Joaquin and says the earth in these lands is wonderful because there is water. He admires what Americans have done, turning a desert into a cultivated field by bringing water from lakes, from the north. These lands are little jewels. No lands like these exist in Mexico, where we are always waiting for rain. The only state that gets all the attention and the money from the Mexican Government is Sinaloa, where there are enormous dams, and the Valley of San Quintin in Baja California. All those very fertile valleys produce the tomatoes that we sell to the United States in December. We Mexicans, who are producers of com, import cota from the United States, and the com we buy is not the one used for human consumption but for fattening pigs. Tortillas made with this cota are yellow.[2] In order to avoid dying of hunger, many workers come to the States, even if they have to work like slaves. Gaspar Rivera says, After being a cook, dishwasher, picker in the fields (broccoli, strawberries, artichokes), garbage man, the best-paid job I had was picking mushrooms, $7.30 an hour. I could never dream of earning anything like that in Mexico. The other one was in a factory started by the hip-pies for natural chocolate with no artificial ingredients. After three years I became a gardener at the University of California at Santa Cruz. That is how I entered the University. Chicanos, as you can see, have been peasants. Most of the Chicanos who now attend school and get a higher education and go to the University are sons and daughters of men and women who never had the opportunity for a university career. For many years, the Chicanos were to Mexicans a forgotten people in a no-man's land, in ghost towns, in cities that we in Mexico called, "ciudades de paso," or "walk-through cities," cities where no one set-ties, bad cities for bad people, just as Cuernavaca is called "a sunny place for shady people."[3] Tijuana in 1926 had nothing but slums. The Casino "Agua Caliente" (owned by an American company) started by giving work to the poorest Mexicans who became waiters, janitors, errand or bell boys, dishwashers, bed-makers in whore houses, cheap singers and guitar players. Because of Prohibition, stars like Douglas Fairbanks and Clark Gable came from Hollywood, and it was in "Agua Caliente," Tijuana (today a public school), that Rita Hayworth began her singing career under her real name: Lola Cansino. Even if "Agua Caliente" was considered a first class Casino and frequently compared to Monte Carlo, it was run and visited by low class Americans. The designation first class, second class, and fifth class has always been characteristic of the border language. Eulalio Gonzalez, "Piporro," epitomized the new inhabitant of the North, a real macho dressed as a cowboy; he called himself a second class Mexican who was lucky enough to get a first class girl, first class because she was a gringa. Chicanos tried to grasp their roots, roots that floated in the air and drifted around in the barren winds and were taken by the waters of the Rio Bravo and the Rio Grande. They did not speak English, and their Spanish became weaker day by day. English words were mexicanized: truck became troca, yard became yarda, from Tiajuana we in Mexico, D.F. inherited words like "si, man" instead of si, yes, "migra," "pason," "parquear," "friquearse" "alivianado," "buena vibra" [good vibes], and others, that belong to jail language. The Chicanos created a new language. There are many examples given by the poet Alurista, as, for instance: El sarape de mi personalidad comes in fantastic colors or Tino Villanueva: Tu como te llamas, mexicano, latino, Meskin, skin, Mex-guy, Mex-Am, Latin-American, Chicano. or Once upon a time a little mariposita was flying in the jardin, when de repente she fell cayo and then she dijo: "Ay, what brute am I, I forgot to open my alitas." It was not only the language. Chicanos were living "on standby," always in "transit," always in a "meantime land," like "maripositas" waiting to settle down, fluttering their "alitas" before getting their green card, before becoming residents. Rejected by both Mexicans and Americans, they had no one to turn to except themselves, their backs always wet (that is why Gloria Anzaldua's book's title, This Bridge Called My Back, is so good), their back or neck always hurt, and their ribs, over which the bridge can be built, is also a passage across the border. These Mexicans finally reached a new shore, the shore of their awareness, their active participation, their fight for their land, the same land that the same Gloria Anzaldua describes in these words: Yes, the Chicano and the Chicana have always taken care of growing things and the land. Again I see the four of us kids getting off the school bus, changing into our work clothes, walking into the field with Papi and Mami, all six of us bending to the ground. Below our feet, under the earth lie the watermelon seeds. We cover them with paper plates, putting "terremotes" on top of the plates to keep them from being blown away by the wind. The paper plates keep the frost away. Next day or the day after, we remove the plates, bare the tiny green shoots to the elements. They survive and grow, give fruits hundreds of times the size of the seed. We water them and hoe them, we harvest them. The vines dry, rot, are ploughed under. Growth, death, decay, birth. The soil prepared again and again, impregnated, worked on. A constant changing of forms, renacimiento de la tierra madre. If the whole Mexican family, even the children, worked heavily in the picking of fruit, of cotton, of beans (that is why they are called beaners), women worked even harder, because long after the others had finished, they had to cook and feed their family, put their Aztec sweethearts to bed and clean up. As they were peasant women, they did not fear hard work. In Mexico they had done the same, but for less. Still, their journey was the longest of them all, and, as women, they were subject to sex, race, and class discrimination, to the ill treatment of machos because they are female, to the inferiority complex that accompanies every woman in a patriarchal society, and in which the sex roles are established since birth: machito, little man, mujercita, little doll. Man's potential is enormous, woman's potential doesn't exist. Even without knowing it, they nurtured in their daughters a feeling of worthlessness, of self-hatred for what it means to be a woman and a Chicana. A field where women work is lovely just to look at, because women wear colored scarves on their heads or blouses or aprons. Now women have chosen to work in the "maquiladoras" [assembly lines] that started in 1965 on our side of the border. They are in demand because they are cheaper and more docile. Most of them are young, single mothers. More and more they become responsible for themselves, and by becoming economically independent in a country like Mexico, where women only know restrictions, they also become the owners of their lives and bodies. To be a Chicano is not easy, but to be a Chicana is even harder. To be a writer in Mexico is not easy, but to be a woman writer sometimes makes no sense at all. A Chicana writer in the United States gets the worst of both conditions: being a woman and a Chicana aspiring to become a writer. Just one glance at the names of the publishers of Chicana women writers gives us an idea of their marginality: "Spinster/Aunt Lute," "Bilingual Press," "Kitchen Table/Women of Color Press," "The Feminist Press," "Shameless Hussie Press," "Third Woman Press," "El Fuego de Aztlan Press." In Mexico, the work of Chicano writers like Tomas Rivera, Tino Villanueva, Rudolfo Anaya, Miguel Mendez has been published, but no Chicana can make the same claim. Just as in the fields, her working day has been twice as hard. When man or woman reaches the bottom of the pit, his and her efforts in coming out are priceless. This is what has happened to Chicanas. For many years they lived at the bottom of their pits, not only the extreme border but on the borders of their own landscape, the limits of their own bodies, the length of their hair and their ideas, and they decided for themselves what women can do and must do; they abolished once and for all the unwritten Mexican law inscribed at birth on all our foreheads: "Not you, you are a woman." They discovered their sexuality, accepted it, they pushed aside their mothers who had slowed down the pace, and they achieved what Rosario Castellanos asked for in one of her most beautiful poems: a new way of being human and free. They knew they had to accept and love themselves for others to love them, to love themselves out of negation. Without having decided it beforehand, but in a very explicit manner, they won over class and racial prejudices, social and economic segregation and even won over their own poor feelings of self-esteem. From this devastating battle they came out stronger, and have lived in twenty years what has taken Mexican women a hundred years. They are way ahead of us. They have asserted themselves, and through brutal discrimination they have opened a path to and for themselves. Brutal has also been their journey. Their literature has a lot in common with Frida Kahlo's painting, the portrait of the Indian nana [nanny] who gives her breast covered with tiny white milk brooks to the child-woman who clings to her great obscure nipple. Mexicans and Chicanas drank Indian milk and now they drink low fat 1% milk or skim milk. They still consider themselves daughters of rape. As Lucha Corpi puts it in her "Marina poems": Tu no la querias y el la negaba y aquel que cuando nino [This character cannot be represented into ASCII text]mama! le gritaba cuando crecio le puso por nombre "la chingada." And Sylvia Gonzalez is specific: I am Chicana Waiting for the return of la Malinche, to negate her guilt, and cleanse her flesh of a confused Mexican wrath which seeks reason to the displaced power of Indian deities. I am Chicana Waiting for the coming of a Malinche to sacrifice herself on an Aztec altar and Catholic cross in redemption of all her forsaken daughters. No Mexican woman writer has ever seemed to care about her Chicana counterpart. Why? The reason is mere ignorance and an official dismissal of a culture split in two: the Chicana and the Mexican. This whole feeling of superiority will quickly change into an inferiority complex when Mexican women writers find out who Gloria Anzaldua or Cherrie Moraga are, or Ana Castillo in her wonderful The Mixquiahuala Letters, Sandra Cisneros in The House on Mango Street or My Wicked, Wicked Ways, with that provocative picture of hers, throwing at our faces like a siap her red mouth and her lotus position, and now Woman Hollering Creek, that has been well received and has had a review in the New York Times Book Review, or Helena Maria Viramontes, consumed and refreshing author of The Moths, and the wonderful stories about the ones who work during various months of the year over the border, or "You cramp my style, baby," a poem by Lorna Dee Cervantes that addresses the Chicano male movement which perpetuates the Chicana's role as servant and sex object, slaves of their lord and master. Lorna Dee Cervantes expresses the need to dominate the written word in order to destroy stereotypes about Mexicans and rewrite history from the perspective of the oppressed. As Juan Bruce-Novoa says it, Sheila Ortiz Taylor is the best Chicana novelist and in Mexico she hasn't been translated. In her play Amory Libertad [Love and Freedom], Rosa Carrillo writes a dialogue between father and daughter in which traditional family values clash with the Chicana changing self-image and desire for independence. She wants to be free, but her father has never been free, so he cannot understand. Reading Chicana literature, I cannot help but think about this marvelous Puerto Rican writer, author of "Pollito Chicken," one of the most creative writers, the happiest in her skin, the freest of all writers, Ana Lydia Vega. How can I judge the grade of freedom of a writer? By the happiness it communicates, because he or she knows how to make others laugh, because he or she has a sense of humor, because he or she makes fun of him or herself, because, like Groucho Marx, he or she can declare: "Outside of a dog, books are man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Chicanas rub their liberty in our faces; provocative, their thighs stand in the air; shameless, their body-battles take us by assault, and take heaven by assault the way Marx (not Groucho) would have wanted. A Chicana in T-shirt and mini-skirt challenges the world. This openness, this absolute will of self-assertion: the Chicana obtains it from her environment. Chicanas who imitate American, white, Anglo Saxon girls do it with great innocence, and sometimes a lack of self criticism is a form of liberation. (Read Mary Helen Ponce and her "Color Red.") To put shoes on the Virgin of Guadalupe and throw her into the streets in her high heels, in a short skirt, is a lesson for us who do not let loose the reins. There are a few reasons for this. Our religiousness has nothing in common with that of the United States. Over there, Catholics are a minority; here the hundreds of thousands of pilgrims who go to Tepeyac to pay tribute to their little Virgin exercise an influence so powerful over Mexicans that, like it or not, it has to be considered both politically and socially. In Mexico, every day I look more like my mother, as Rosario Castellanos looked like hers, Angeles Mastretta like hers, Beatriz Espejo like hers, Barbara Jacobs like hers. In the United States, the difference between parents and children is enormous. In the case of Chicanos, parents do not agree with what children do. Meekly they continue living in the United States as they would in Mexico, letting everyone step on their feet, while Chicano children desire to find a place among the Anglos. Freshness, spontaneity, sense of humor, freedom, are on the side of the Chicanas; on our side (except for the case of Angeles Mastretta in her novel Mexican Tango, Kyra Galvan and Silvia Tomasa Rivera in their poetry) is nostalgia, traditions, laments and lack of self-love, as in Rosario Castellanos. Our ignorance of Chicano women writers is particularly unfair when we Mexican women writers always complain that no one takes us seriously. What is done to us, we do. With Chicanos, the problem is also a class problem. Mexican women writers do not come from the working classes and do not have an immediate relationship with the fields and factories the way Chicanas do. Even though Nellie Campobello was born in the country and can well be considered the only woman writer of the Revolution, she belongs to the bourgeoisie. For the Mexican woman writer, writing is an under product of her social situation. For the Chicanas, writing is a means to overcome their social situation. It is the confrontation of two classes. We come from the Mexican middle class that can travel and settle in the United States under optimum conditions. Money, let us remember it, has no fatherland. Money has no fatherland, but the way of spending it does. There is a culture of waste that is the result of excessive riches. The knowledge of Chicano literature could enrich us in more ways than one, and teach us what it means to fight for freedom, break down stereotypes, demystify, to know God in a land of indios, to rescue the Virgin of Guadalupe in the land of gringos. The liberty with which Chicanas write is an example to Mexican women writers. Chicana intellect and will power have benefited from the American Way of Life and Mexican Tradition. They are richer than we are. We are still bent over under the weight of religion, of social status, of tradition. It is still a prowess in Mexico to be a writer. Not even Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz can be considered really subversive, and if she was, three hundred years ago, she was only subversive in her writing, because out of her own disposition she was a courtesan. And Sor Juana went to the very limit of what she could do. Society was hostile to her and it is still hostile to women. How hostile the magazine Plural was to Castellanos, who, according to the Editorial Board, had badly translated St. John Perse, Claudel and Emily Dickinson. In a literature like ours, which had no Emily Dickinson, no Marianne Moore, no Edna St. Vincent Millay, writing and publishing is a subversive action. The publication of Nellie Campobello's Cartuchos [Cartridges] and My Mother's Hands [Las manos de Mama] was in its way a battle siege. A story like Elena Garro's "La Culpa es de los Tlaxcaltecas" [The Tlaxcaltecas' Guilt] is profoundly subversive, as is "The Monologues of the Spinster" in poetry by Rosario Castellanos. Of Mexican women writers who do not belong to the petite bourgeoisie, only two could be called proletarian: Benita Galeana, who is not a professional writer, and Sylvia Tomasa Rivera, who accompanies the reading of her poems with beer bottles, bangs on the table and shouts that she is a peasant. She is not anymore. The writer who will shatter our nostalgia to pieces and pulverize our customs is still to be born. Women fought the Revolution in a subsidiary way. They were the basis of the daily life of the revolutionary army. This women's movement has not been taken into account, even though there has been a slow recognition, as in the case of Carmen Serdan, Josefa Ortiz de Dominguez, Juana Gutierrez de Mendoza, and others who took their gun and defended their country. As yet, Mexican literature still lacks great feminine figures; they do not exist or simply they are not allowed to become figures. We live in a patriarchal society in which women are the servants of the lord, the abnegadas cabecitas blancas [devoted little white heads]. Mother's Day is incredible in Mexico City: stores earn more money than in the Christmas season. The worst son, the worst daughter, gets his or her mother a blender, a microwave, a salad mixer. The Chicanas are still bent over under the weight of their mother's misfortune, or the memory of their mother's misfortune, their Mamacita who is also the Virgin of Guadalupe, the Malinche who gave herself to Cortes, the Llorona who weeps for her dead children, the Chingada, the legendary violated mother, who has given birth to the whole of "La Raza." The Chicanas love and rebel against their devoted mother who fears her husband and accepts his beatings. Never in any literature have there been so many references to the Malinche. In Rosario Castellanos and Elena Garro's novels, in the stories of Ines Arredondo and Maria Luisa Puga, the Virgin of Guadalupe or the Malinche are hardly mentioned. For Chicanas, the Virgin of Guadalupe is an obsession, and no one knows it better than the painter Esther Fernandez, who tattoos the Virgin on backs and stomachs. In the United States it would not have been a scandal to put the face of Marilyn Monroe instead of the face of the Virgin of Guadalupe, as it wasn't a scandal to put Mao Tse Tung's face instead of the Mona Lisa's, but when a Mexican painter did it in Mexico everyone was outraged. In the United States, Catholicism is not the main religion. Every year Sandra Cisneros comes to Mexico on December 12 in order to walk on her knees with hundreds of thousands of pilgrims to honor the Virgin of Guadalupe, who is a strong social and political force. We would never think of a Mexican nun becoming anything but the superior of the Convent in church hierarchy, but in the United States there is a Protestant woman who has become a bishop. The picture on the feminist magazine Fem. of the Virgin of Guadalupe walking into the streets with high heels surprised us, but there were no further consequences, because the painter was a Chicana and Fem. magazine does not have a big circulation. No Mexican painter would have done it. Mexicans usually say that before anything else they are "guadalupanos," sons of the Virgin. Breaking religious canons in Mexico is breaking cultural canons. And political ones. Mexican women are so profoundly marked by religion, the weight of religion is so paralyzing, that the Chicana's absolute will for self-respect and self-assertiveness would be hard for us to accept: "[This character cannot be represented into ASCII text]Mira, que barbaras, mira que locas, como se atreven, son unas sinverguenzas!" ["Look how uncouth, look how crazy, how dare they, they're shameless!"]. In the Chicanas' literature, it is their Mexican past that rules. "Abuelita, make me a tea." And the curandera grandmother takes her yerbabuena [mint] "and fixes a hot drink" because she knows the secrets of medical plants. Many Chicano and Chicana writers go back to their childhood memories, and there stands their grandmother, to whom they speak in Spanish because she never learned English, and wants them to remember Mexican palabras, Mexican prayers, Mexican cooking, chile and tostadas, and customs like the Dia de los Muertos. If her children tell her: "Now, abuelita, we kids are Americans," Grandmother will remind them: "No ninos, no, don't forget su abuelita es mexicana." The generation gap between fathers and mothers and sons and daughters is wider than the generation gap between parents and children in Mexico. Mexican parents in the United States continue thinking the same way they would in Mexico, and their patterns of conduct have not changed, while their children want to be considered Anglos. In her book Loving in the War Years, Cherrie Moraga writes in her autobiographical essay "La Guera": I had no choice but to enter into the life of my mother, I had no choice. I took her life into my heart but managed to keep a lid on it as long as I feigned being the happy, upwardly mobile heterosexual. When I finally lifted the lid to my lesbianism, a profound connection with my mother reawakened in me. It wasn't until I had acknowledged and confronted my own lesbianism in the flesh that my heartfelt identification with and empathy for my mother's oppression--due to being poor, uneducated and Chicana--was realized. My lesbianism is the avenue through which I have learned the most about silence and oppression and it continues to be the most tactile reminder to me that we are not free human beings. What I am saying is that the joys of looking like a white girl ain't so great since I realized I could be beaten on the street for being a dyke. Nevertheless, after reading their work, Chicana women writers seem freer human beings than Mexican women writers in both their work and their life. The freedom of expression in the United States started years ago, and the process of assimilating women in any movement was natural. That is why a sort of feminine Henry Miller could spring out: Erica Jong in her Fear of Flying. Mexican women found out about American women's emancipation as late as 1988. With the exception of Rosa Maria Roffiel, no woman writer on this side of the Bravo River has talked about her vagina. Our language is still the language of the nineteenth century. Maria Luisa Erreguerena, the one with the best sense of humor (let us remember her delightful "The day that God got into my bed"), does not write any more because she practices medicine full time. It is not that I believe that only the description of the sexual act is liberating, and that sexuality is a synonym of literary achievement, but I believe that choosing one's own sexual option freely is a first step of men and women towards freedom. Alexandra Kolontai, the Russian revolutionary and Lenin's friend, wrote in 1911 about women and moral sexuality and said that a woman is worthwhile when she values her individuality and defends her right to be what she is. She wrote: "I am myself, and everything I am, I owe to my effort." For Alexandra Kolontai, a modern woman was self-disciplined and presented herself not just as the shadow of man but as an individual woman. Today we should add: "and not as the shadow of another woman." Or "and not as the shadow of a patriarchal culture." Or also, "Not as the shadow of oneself but as an individual shaped through the years by various decisions." Mexican women writers have a lot to learn from the freshness and aggressiveness in Chicana writings. Their imagination and their sensuality go much farther than ours. They neither forgive nor feel guilty. Despite, or because of, the Virgin of Guadalupe they are sacrilegious and blasphemous. Good! More than we, they identify themselves with La Chingada. We are also Chingadas, but prefer not to recognize it. The borderland is spreading quickly, and with it all the agitation, problems and political weaknesses of a poor society of men, women, and children brought together by necessity in the most conflicting fringe between our two countries. The land is fertile and creative, and Cherrie Moraga is right when she says: "There resides in her, as in me, a woman far greater than our bodies can inhabit." To know that we can be greater than our bodies, that we can go farther than our limits, that we can overflow ourselves, are lessons that Chicanas have taught us with their life and literature, and we have not yet known how to thank them. Notes 1.Malinche was the Aztec noblewoman who was given to Cortes early in his campaign to conquer the Aztec empire. She was both his interpreter and his mistress, and in Mexico, largely due to Octavio Paz's The Labryinth of Solitude (1950), she is considered by many a traitor to her people. She is often referred to as "La Chingada," the raped one. ~~~~~~~~

By Elena Poniatowska,
Mexico City

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