Prison Religion

[bluecollar]

Hey all! Sorry I am not here much. Need to set down some time to talk to wcrockets some time (sorry bout the no reply to the "Deism" topic, haven't had the time).

Anyways . . . to the subject that I am presenting ->

I had a teacher in high school that worked in a prison as a guard and he always commented on how prisoners would take up religion just in attempt to get out of prison. Many a day had he seen crosses and other religious idols in the garbage cans after prisoners were finally released from their incarceration. Apparently, they crafted an image to fit the "good person" stereotype in attempt to invoke empathy from their present state of grace.

In essence, is this hypocritical cruelty or is this really a caricature for those "true believers" out there who "quote" from their bibles espousing their "virtues."

The strength of the metaphor is ever present . . . is their truly faith or is it all vice in the end?

[wcrockets]

Well in my talks with ex prisoners, including ex prison gang members like Art Blajos for example, I can assure you through personal verification they are authentic Christian men living out the true Christian life and keeping it real. In Art's case, the prison guards did everything in their power to prevent him from reentering his old cell block as a "born-again" Christian to share the good news that there is a God and he saves and delivers people. However, through some interesting divine intervention he was allowed in despite their best attempts to keep him out and even the head guard told him afterwards "I know you are real now because only a true Christian could have made it this far with the wall we threw up." Just one of many examples of those who are genuine.

What surprises me about your post is that you act surprised that an unregenerate person would try to play the system to get a better deal. That is no surprise to any of us genuine Christians. God knows those who are genuine and those who are pretending. Men can tell them through their lives and the fruit their lives bear. Peace.

[bluecollar]

Hello wcrockets,

Well, I'm surprised that "good christians" would be ending up in prison for crimes they have be charged for. The ten commandments is a body that dictates how one should act in society. If these "good christians" are committing horrible deads, how "genuine" are they really after all?

I'm sorry to be a stickler but you didn't address (possibly ignored) the metaphor from my previous quote.

In essence, is this hypocritical cruelty or is this really a caricature for those "true believers" out there who "quote" from their bibles espousing their "virtues."

The strength of the metaphor is ever present . . . is their truly faith or is it all vice in the end?"

Basically, are those "good christians" genuinely using their religion or is it all just manipulation of people's good morals.

with regards,

bluecollar

[wcrockets]

You're not a stickler. You just think you are.. lol. First off nobody is born a Christian. The people I referenced in my above post became Christians. They were in prison before they became a Christian. That should answer that question.

Next, when a person hears the good news and makes a genuine decision to accept Christ into their heart they do not automatically become perfected nor are wordly consequences to previous actions necessarily washed away. They are forgiven by God (the ultimate authority in the universe) and have entered into a relationship with God. That is all. But it is enough. The journey has begun. It will take time to work out the salvation, in other words, go through the changes to becoming Christ like. However, if the conversion is genuine then the direction has changed (the true meaning of the word repent) and the process begun.

So the new stirrings of God will often convict (cause one to feel remorse) a person on things they have done in the past and they will set out to make resitution for it. In the case of a hard core criminal, this has sometimes meant they have to do some time. However, more often then not in my studies and experience, either the judge has freed them so they didn't have to and they were allowed to start their new lives fresh under certain conditions (complying with recovery programs and/or probation, etc..) or they were able to work it out without ever going before the system as in they were forgiven. Certain Judges have written about what they experienced in allowing this and it is interesting to see they felt God was often involved in their decision.

Next, you have a spiritual principle at work in genuine Christians where they want to do good but sometimes do bad. This is the battle between the flesh and the spirtual. This site explains it in more detail http://www.thirdmill.org/files/english/ ... om.37.html but you should reread Romans 7 for yourself.

Next, you have those living in a backslidden state. You can find them in prisons for armed robberies, junkies who returned to their junk. Some come back some never do. Again God respects people's right to choose. Anyone can choose to live a life not pleasing to God even after they have professed to be a Christian. Nobody is a robot or clone, as I stated before, although genuine Christians do believe in, align themselves with, and follow the words of Christ as they understand them at that moment as education is also a process and it takes time to learn.

So in conclusion, I think I understand what this metaphor you are talking about is which is how can a genuine Christian ever do anything wrong and be held accountable for it. I hope you understand now. The view that once you become a Christian means you are now perfect in the world or don't have to be accountable for your actions is not scriptural nor of the Bible and therefore there is no real contradiction.

[Panik]

in my experience, 90% of the people that "turn" christian in prison do it because they are scared, and they use it as a shield. If you just sit in there with your face in the bible, people tend to leave you alone. I don't think many of them really believe in anything other than saving their ass.

[Anonymous20]

in my experience, 90% of the people that "turn" christian in prison do it because they are scared, and they use it as a shield. If you just sit in there with your face in the bible, people tend to leave you alone.

I can't speak for 90% of the inmates but....

1. Some want change.
2. Others are remorseful for their crimes.
3. And some are remorsal for parting from their families.
4. After spending numerous of hours locked down, it becomes normal for MOST inmates to pick up a book, and the bible is the most attainable piece of literature you will find while incarserated.

Also, I don't think anyone figures if they pick up a bible people will leave them alone, because if someone wants to get you, they are going to get you or have you gotten regardless. You don't get a pass for putting your face in the bible, you just make it easier.

I know alot of people who get saved in jail/prison but once they get back on the streets, the fall weak to drugs or find that the bible couldn't land them a job, and so they return back to robberies, burglaries, theft, or selling narcotics hoping to get the fast money and then live rightheous.

I think this is where the questions above comes from, "Is this hypocritical?" Anyhow, I think WCROCKETS is teaching pretty well right now, LETS PAY ATTENTION!

[Panik]

I fell you Kevmac, but I'm talkimng about those that hit the streets again and go back to whatever they were doing. Yeah, there are some people that go to the pen and come out and go to victory outrach, or gangsters for god, or whatever. But I think they are by far outnumbered by the ones the hit the poen talkin about "I don't bang anymore", or whatever there line is. Then they finish doin their time and hit the hood again tryin to slang or bang. They are just "prison preachers". This goes for other religions too. I got an OG homie that is a straight killer on the streets. Ballin outta control too. But every time he hit the pen he turns muslim. Keeps him out of the blood/crip funk, and out of most riots. Then he'll get out and be a muslim for about a month, the next thing you know he got a quoter key and a strap rollin around eatin carnitas. Just from what I've seen, most of these guys don't stick with their program once they get out.

[Anonymous20]

I fell you Kevmac, but I'm talkimng about those that hit the streets again and go back to whatever they were doing.

I got an OG homie that is a straight killer on the streets. Ballin outta control too. But every time he hit the pen he turns muslim. Keeps him out of the blood/crip funk, and out of most riots. Then he'll get out and be a muslim for about a month, the next thing you know he got a quoter key and a strap rollin around eatin carnitas. Just from what I've seen, most of these guys don't stick with their program once they get out.

I feel you, and I AGREE. But at the sametime, people like you (Not nescesarily YOU specifically) are on the streets sinning the whole time. Unwedded sex, lust, greed, etc and probaly don't pray or repent half as much as a guy in prison. So really, there is no difference to me.

Doesn't the bible say something about calling on God in the time of need? And one sin is no greater than the other? It also says in Matthew 7 verse 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? And it also says DON'T JUDGE, or you will be JUDGED for in the same way you judged others.

Don't get me wrong, I feel you are right, but I also feel like you shouldn't blame people who are saved in the time of adversity or incarseration when this world is full of sinners both inside as well as outside of prison.

[stateraised2000]

in the cali prison system most everybody is sentenced to a specific term so theres really no reason to use christianity to get a date. when lifes pressures hit a person, IN MY OPINION, they reach out for something that brings them comfort. alot of times when a person gets past them 'hard times" and things get better they slip back into that pattern of what brought alot of them problems on in the 1st place. by see'ing so many people reach out to god when times are hard shows me that gods presence is in more of us than people would think...

[Anonymous20]

in the cali prison system most everybody is sentenced to a specific term so theres really no reason to use christianity to get a date. when lifes pressures hit a person, IN MY OPINION, they reach out for something that brings them comfort. alot of times when a person gets past them 'hard times" and things get better they slip back into that pattern of what brought alot of them problems on in the 1st place. by see'ing so many people reach out to god when times are hard shows me that gods presence is in more of us than people would think...

Nice post STATERAISED. "By see'ing so many people reach out to god when times are hard shows me that gods presence is in more of us than people would think." Also, I read somewhere in the bible where God wants us to call upon him in the time of need, so I don't see what the big deal is. Like I said, and you wrote also, unfortunately many of us fall back into their old ways of why their problems exist in the first place.

[stateraised2000]

yeah kevmac i think ALMOST everyone has called out to god at one time or another when times were hard and probably will again if the situation arises. aint no shame in that. if it gets you thru the hard times thats what he's there for right? im not saying someone should call out to god ONLY when times are hard and then go about your biz when things smooth out. if a person can call out to him and follow thru on leaving them bad ways behind then i have nothing but respect for them. but some of us have a hard time on making that complete change. i've given up on making a 100% change but i do try and make things in my life a lil better with each attempt. but we are ALL human and aint none of us perfect and we gonna keep making mistakes as long as we're on this planet but as long as we take 2 steps forward and only one back then we on the right track...

[wcrockets]

For sure StateRaised. There are no perfect people alive in the world today. We all need grace. God knows those who are his.

[wcrockets]

For sure StateRaised. I appreciate your honesty (and Panik's too even though he hasn't entered the kingdom yet . There are no perfect people alive in the world today. We all need grace. God knows those who are his and I've a message for the believers feeling down and full of doubt. Even if your heart condemns you and tells you there is no way. Listen, God is greater than your heart and able to deliver you into paradise despite the strength of that feeling. That's in scripture bros. Peace.

[blkjoker]

Its good that we can come together and talk about life itself verus gangs and killings all the time. I enjoy this site it shows that even though some people bang and have it rough that they still can share the good in them. I think what we all need to understand nobodys wants to look over there shoulder every minute. Nobody wants to kill, the ones who do need treatment or just mis guided souls trying to make right with there gangs, who show them love. I know the ones coming out of prison in most cases they feel there is no help for them. They are put right back on the streets they dont have time to wait around for a job. Nobody wants to hire them from there wrong doings in the past. They know that while they are locked up. So when they have all that time to themsleves, where they are finally in one place, for the first time they really think. They know what they have been through and know they need a change, so they pick up a bible the only thing that dont judge them. But when they are back out the bible cant save them. I am sure they all want to change most just dont want to take the time to get to that point. So its easy to fall victim to something you are use to doing and know how to do. So the bible is there for the hard times help you through it.

[zzzz]

You guys ever question whether the Bible is for real? I know I sure have... Although I really haven't read a whole lot of the Bible, but I've met a whole lot of people who claim to, and they don't seem "saved" to me at all. Infact, a lot of them seem more interested in getting their Get-Out-Of-Hell-FREE card more than anything else.

It seems to come down to how the individual interprets things they read in the Bible. I've met alcoholics who spend almost all their money on booze, who claim to be Christians. When you ask them why they drink so much they say "The Bible says, "Let us drinketh on wine"...???? I've met racist people who didn't hesitate to call me a nigger, and then throw out Bible verses. What???! Seriously, why do so many racists act SO religious? I've met people who refused to get up off there ass and DO something in their lives. They would rather sit on their ass and point to the sky and throw the cliche "God will provide!" .

My question to you guys who believe what the Bible says, is: What was it that won you over? Seriously. With all the different religions in the world, why is it that Christianity is the one that you choose to believe? Is it because Christianity is pretty much mainstream in North America? Is it family tradition? Or were times just really tough in your life, and you gave up all faith in mankind, so you had to turn to "God". That's what I want to ask you guys. I have asked many "Bible believers" these very same questions in the past But for some reason they choose to answer the questions in the most complicated way possible.

I'll just say this.... I do believe there is someone else....someone far greater than us. But I don't think people on this earth know $h!t about him. No matter how much books they read.

[Anonymous20]

With all the different religions in the world, why is it that Christianity is the one that you choose to believe? Is it because Christianity is pretty much mainstream in North America? Is it family tradition? Or were times just really tough in your life, and you gave up all faith in mankind, so you had to turn to "God". That's what I want to ask you guys. I have asked many "Bible believers" these very same questions in the past But for some reason they choose to answer the questions in the most complicated way possible.

I'm not a VERY religeous person, did I even spell it right? But to bob and weave through your question: Why does anyone choose to believe in anything?

My nephew believes he is better in Math than basketball. I can beat him in math, but NOT basketball. Why did the jury and many whites believe Rodney King was driving 100 MPH in a Hyundai? Why does half of the world believe we landed, or didn't land on the moon? Why does the Los Angeles School District believe books are distributed equally throughout the L.A. school system?

Since this is a gang website, let me throw this one back at you? What made you come to a gang website to question religeon? And why did you single out christianity, what about catholic and islam?

Many of us (humans) were raised to believe in our parents or grandparents teachings. Whatever studying or worshiping you do, you must then have FAITH.

We all have choices, and we believe in something.

[wcrockets]

swsw said: You guys ever question whether the Bible is for real? I know I sure have... Although I really haven't read a whole lot of the Bible, but I've met a whole lot of people who claim to, and they don't seem "saved" to me at all. Infact, a lot of them seem more interested in getting their Get-Out-Of-Hell-FREE card more than anything else.

Me: All kinds of people saying all kinds of things in this world. But just because some people "use" the Bible incorrectly doesn't negate the message therein.

swsw said: It seems to come down to how the individual interprets things they read in the Bible. I've met alcoholics who spend almost all their money on booze, who claim to be Christians. When you ask them why they drink so much they say "The Bible says, "Let us drinketh on wine"...???? I've met racist people who didn't hesitate to call me a nigger, and then throw out Bible verses. What???! Seriously, why do so many racists act SO religious? I've met people who refused to get up off there ass and DO something in their lives. They would rather sit on their ass and point to the sky and throw the cliche "God will provide!" .

Me: Real truth is not dependent on how a particular individual(s) interprets it. It is what it is. Real truth doesn't change to suit someone's interpretation of it. Also, sorry you ran across some hypocrites, drunks, and racists trying to use God's word to prop up a false position contrary to God's word.

swsw said: My question to you guys who believe what the Bible says, is: What was it that won you over? Seriously. With all the different religions in the world, why is it that Christianity is the one that you choose to believe? Is it because Christianity is pretty much mainstream in North America? Is it family tradition? Or were times just really tough in your life, and you gave up all faith in mankind, so you had to turn to "God". That's what I want to ask you guys. I have asked many "Bible believers" these very same questions in the past But for some reason they choose to answer the questions in the most complicated way possible.

Me: I've seen that too. I think the problem there is that people believe what they were raised to believe even if they don't know anything about it.. lol. What brought me into a personal relationship with the creator of the universe was a serious study that lasted for many many years at the end of which there was only one choice I could in good conscience make.

swsw said: I'll just say this.... I do believe there is someone else....someone far greater than us. But I don't think people on this earth know $h!t about him. No matter how much books they read.

Me: You're right about there being a higher power. You're wrong in thinking you cannot know about him or know him. God wants to have a relationship with you. Peace.

[zzzz]

kevmac

Since this is a gang website, let me throw this one back at you? What made you come to a gang website to question religeon?

I didn't come here to specifically talk about religion. I have been reading the forums for a couple months now. I just don't really write that many messages. I use to be known as swordswinging, but his name was banned. Apparently because I was arguing with a netbanger who decided to represent on the net and buss' an expletive in my ass. I have also posted on other threads all over this site, so if you're thinking I came here just to bad mouth religion...I didn't. I found this site a few years back and I'm glad it has forums like this. Usually forums on sites about gangs are filled with page after page of people saying "yO mAdD T bE uP In the hIzZoUsE fuck yAlL iM fRoM dUh wEsSiDe hOmEs yaLl nIgGaZ cAnT fuck with uS beEyOtCH!"

And why did you single out christianity, what about catholic and islam?

I think Christianity is the most popular religion in North America. Even people who don't read the Bible can quote some of the Ten Commandments, and know a little bit about Jesus Christ, Moses, the virgin Mary etc.... Not to mention the movies...(Wasn't their a movie about Jesus Christ written by Mel Gibson the other day?) And it's very commercial (What does Santa Claus, raindeer, and buying coca-cola have to do with the birth of Christ? What does the Easter bunny and Cadbury easter eggs have to do with the death of Christ?) So that's the only religion I know anything at all about. Don't know anything about Catholics (although I've heard some of them speak, and they tend to say the same stuff Christians say, from what I've heard). Don't know anything about Islam either.

Many of us (humans) were raised to believe in our parents or grandparents teachings. Whatever studying or worshiping you do, you must then have FAITH.

Yeah I figured there were people like that. Alot of people get involved with the same activites and beliefs that the people around them are into. Not just with religion, it can be anything. Kind of like the way little kids in Imperial Courts might grow up to believe being a PJ Watts Crip is the thing to be, while someone growing up in Nickerson Gardens might think the same about being a Bounty Hunter. Ok, so growing up around it is one way. What about those people who were into living the not so Christian lifestyle, and then making that full turn. What convinced them to do it, and to take it seriously? I'm not talking part-time Christians; preach righteousness today, and then cheat on your wife tommorow. Or the people that I referred to in my previous post. Is facing life or death the only way to get people to make the change?

wcrockets

All kinds of people saying all kinds of things in this world. But just because some people "use" the Bible incorrectly doesn't negate the message therein.

So are you trying to say that everything in the Bible can be construed by the real Christians? All the real Christians think alike, and believe everything in the Bible? I have never met Christians like that. The Christians I have met who supposedly are the closest to being real Christians, seem to always be having those "Who's More Holy" contests. Almost like a battle rap. Trading Psalms and metaphors with eachother, to see who's more righteous I guess.

Real truth is not dependent on how a particular individual(s) interprets it. It is what it is. Real truth doesn't change to suit someone's interpretation of it.

Is that right.... But it's too bad Christianity is so mainstream. Whenever something hits mainstream, it seems to also be practiced and preached by devil's in disguise, who's only purpose is to exploit it for personal gain. I knew a pastor who was spending the collection money on his drug habit. He eventually got busted, and not only that... they found out he was an illegal citizen and he was deported.

But don't other religions have their own version of the "truth" also? Are they all liars? I guess you don't worry about that huh? You just doing what you think is right.

I've seen that too. I think the problem there is that people believe what they were raised to believe even if they don't know anything about it.. lol. What brought me into a personal relationship with the creator of the universe was a serious study that lasted for many many years at the end of which there was only one choice I could in good conscience make.

Good stuff. So what brought you into that serious study? Was it an ultimatum? Change your life now, or be killed or be locked up? Seems to be the story of a lot of Christians. I don't think I've ever met one who converted just because it was a healthy way to live. They were either born into it, or their life just/were-about-to hit rock bottom, and they didn't have much of a choice. Don't have a problem with that at all. What I don't like are the ones that cheat. LOL. I've had someone try to convert me to Christianity while smoking a blunt with me. I know someone who blamed the Devil when the wind blew all his weed away while he was rolling. Part-time Christians, and these guys are on the rise, I swear. Those are the ones that plague Christianity and make it look like a joke.

BTW...I know religion is a touchy subject (countries are at WAR over religion right now) so let it be known, I don't mean to put down anyone's beliefs or anything like that. Just speaking my mind.

[Anonymous20]

I didn't come here to specifically talk about religion.

Good post. I like the way you put the quotes in there, I have to steal that style from here on.

I feel you, and I understand clearly where you coming from. Again, good post.

[wcrockets]

My Quote: All kinds of people saying all kinds of things in this world. But just because some people "use" the Bible incorrectly doesn't negate the message therein.

swsw Response: So are you trying to say that everything in the Bible can be construed by the real Christians? All the real Christians think alike, and believe everything in the Bible? I have never met Christians like that. The Christians I have met who supposedly are the closest to being real Christians, seem to always be having those "Who's More Holy" contests. Almost like a battle rap. Trading Psalms and metaphors with eachother, to see who's more righteous I guess.

Me: I mean what I said. That just because some messengers misuse the message does not mean the message is not valid. I'm being clear I think. And again, I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences with people claiming to be Christians.

My Quote: Real truth is not dependent on how a particular individual(s) interprets it. It is what it is. Real truth doesn't change to suit someone's interpretation of it.

swsw Response: Is that right.... But it's too bad Christianity is so mainstream. Whenever something hits mainstream, it seems to also be practiced and preached by devil's in disguise, who's only purpose is to exploit it for personal gain. I knew a pastor who was spending the collection money on his drug habit. He eventually got busted, and not only that... they found out he was an illegal citizen and he was deported. But don't other religions have their own version of the "truth" also? Are they all liars? I guess you don't worry about that huh? You just doing what you think is right.

Me: Yes what I said is right. And yes you are correct in that people can make a choice (for whatever reason) to misrepresent a message to others.

[andrew]

its easier to be good behind bars than on the streets....thats a FACT

[SpiritualKnight]

Russ Dizdar is a current preacher/former ohio police chaplain, who speaks about the massive satanic cult activity going on in ohio, and other states/places. (his facebook is: https://www.facebook.com/russ.dizdar) He lives in summit county, ohio - he helps people that are born into satanic cults get out, receive salvation, and provides protection to them, and also helps bring healing from a condition they often impose on members from birth, called multiple personality disorder (MPD - also known as DID, dissociative identity disorder), which they use to help keep members under control/hidden.. The satanic covens/cult groups do this through various methods of torture from birth, to bring about a 'split' in the personality through trauma - then hypnosis (and other essentially brainwashing techniques) are used on the 'split personalities', which are 'programmed' (so to speak) to be obedient and do the work. The process is known/documented as satanic ritual abuse (SRA - look it up..) - the man russ helps get salvation/healing for ALL the personalities, and can help provide means of escape/protection for those that want out of these satanic cults/secret society groups.These satanic cult groups I'm talking about are part of the anti-christ's satanic army that's spoken about in the prophetic bible verses of revelation (revelation 16:13-14, revelation 19:19), and are secretly operating inter-connected HEAVILY all over the country, and in other places world wide... They have people operating covertly at all levels of government, education, entertainment, law enforcement, and religions/religious groups (pretending to be one religion, while secretly they're a satanist), and they are VERY ORGANIZED, AND VERY ACTIVE. (*Note* also youtube search: 'cia and satanism' - ted gunderson, a former FBI member, has some really valuable/interesting information concerning this topic.. also look up 'MK-Ultra', and 'project bluebird'.... there are official government files/documents available online, concerning this stuff.) These are the last days (matthew 24), and the end of this world as we know it is not far off. These satanic cults engage in the act of casting spells/hexes on people, as well, but christians are able to combat this with the power of God them through prayer, and also deliverance for the satanic witch's can be attained. The preacher russ has powerful spiritual warfare teachings (Judges 9:57, Matthew 16:18-19, Mark 16:16-18, Luke 10:18-20, Acts 13:1-12, Acts 16:16-18, Ephesians 6:10-17) - witchcraft is real (Deuteronomy 18:10-11, Luke 10:18-20, Romans 16:10, Acts 19:18-29, 1 Timothy 4:1, Revelation 2:24), and these satanic covens/cult groups are heavily into it, doing human sacrifice and other things for demonic empowerment (2 Kings 21:6, Matthew 16:26-27, Luke 4:5-7, Acts 8:9-1, Revelation 18:23), and are involved in/tied to child kidnappings, much of the sex trafficking/sex slave stuff, serial killers (for example: charles manson, and richard ramirez -AKA the night stalker, who was from texas...), and also many people believe that some of the mass murderer's/shooters that have been arrested are potentially satanic cult coven members/victims of the satanic ritual abuse, themselves... This stuff is VERY REAL, and it is a VERY SERIOUS SITUATION - the man russ provides massive concrete evidence concerning this matter, and I have a qucik/powerful overview teaching that's posted at the top of my page, with a few links attached to it, that will help bring a strong understanding concerning the situation, while providing evidences as well. PLEASE LOOK INTO THIS MATTER, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT! (my face book is: https://www.facebook.com/kenny.jackson.5011)