Revealed: the face of the first European

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Silencioso » May 14th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Sentenza wrote:
Silencioso wrote:It's amazing how PC and afro-centric anthropologists seem to find the light skin of North East Asian and lighter skinned Native Americans to be completely normal and natural but are always trying to explain how European light skin is some kind of freaky genetic mutation. A little biased, maybe?
Its all genetical mutation. Thats why black skin develops in sunny areas. It protects from skin cancer. Black people have a much lesser risk of getting skin cancer then white people. At the end of the day our whole human shape is owed to adaption to the environment.
I agree 100% It just seems like anthropologist these days are unusually interested in Europeans and their distinctive traits. How about the Asian eye fold? Or the lack of body and facial hair in North American Indians? Or extreme short stature in Pygmies? All those traits are unusual and extreme deviations from the original east African form.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 14th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Also note that reptiles are androgynous and lay eggs while mammal life forms have to mate in order to replicate.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 14th, 2009, 5:30 pm

Silencioso wrote:
Sentenza wrote:
Silencioso wrote:It's amazing how PC and afro-centric anthropologists seem to find the light skin of North East Asian and lighter skinned Native Americans to be completely normal and natural but are always trying to explain how European light skin is some kind of freaky genetic mutation. A little biased, maybe?
Its all genetical mutation. Thats why black skin develops in sunny areas. It protects from skin cancer. Black people have a much lesser risk of getting skin cancer then white people. At the end of the day our whole human shape is owed to adaption to the environment.
I agree 100% It just seems like anthropologist these days are unusually interested in Europeans and their distinctive traits. How about the Asian eye fold? Or the lack of body and facial hair in North American Indians? Or extreme short stature in Pygmies? All those traits are unusual and extreme deviations from the original east African form.
It's impossible to find out the root causes of those mutations by looking back through time collectivly(groups of people, hence Europeans), it would be much harder and complex to look back individually but in the end it would bring alot more results. Looking at one individual and how he went from black to white tracing his ancestors through the past 2 million years would answer alot of questions immidietly and change the entire science behind this.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by SouljahGirl » May 15th, 2009, 11:06 am

razbojnik wrote:Indeed, now answer my question. Are you racist ?
No.[/quote] eeew I'm so glad. Cause you know I like talking to you and I was sooooooooo worried.. OK.. Carry On!

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » May 15th, 2009, 11:30 am

Silencioso wrote:
Sentenza wrote:
Silencioso wrote:It's amazing how PC and afro-centric anthropologists seem to find the light skin of North East Asian and lighter skinned Native Americans to be completely normal and natural but are always trying to explain how European light skin is some kind of freaky genetic mutation. A little biased, maybe?
Its all genetical mutation. Thats why black skin develops in sunny areas. It protects from skin cancer. Black people have a much lesser risk of getting skin cancer then white people. At the end of the day our whole human shape is owed to adaption to the environment.
I agree 100% It just seems like anthropologist these days are unusually interested in Europeans and their distinctive traits. How about the Asian eye fold? Or the lack of body and facial hair in North American Indians? Or extreme short stature in Pygmies? All those traits are unusual and extreme deviations from the original east African form.
They found about the eye fold out too. I recently read something about that, but forget what it was, ill try to find it again. But theres a logical explanation behind most of our physical features. E.g. curly, wavy black hair of black people is because their hair produces some kind of oil which protects it from the sunlight too. Because the UV Rays or some shit about the sun destroys your hair in the long run. White people dont have that kind of oil in their hairs and they proved that.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 15th, 2009, 6:28 pm

SouljahGirl wrote: eeew I'm so glad. Cause you know I like talking to you and I was sooooooooo worried.. OK.. Carry On!
No worries.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » May 17th, 2009, 4:24 am

About the asian eye fold:
One hypothesis as to why epicanthic folds came about involves the climates in which populations expressing them arose. Sunlight reflects more intensely off light colored surfaces, such as those prevalent in snowy regions or savannahs and deserts. The theory is that an epicanthic fold in such an environment would protect the eyes from extra UV radiation. The trait may also be useful against strong winds and cold weather such as the ones on the Central Asian steppes.[citation needed] For instance the country of Mongolia is hot in the summer and extremely cold in the winter, with January averages dropping as low as -30°C (-22°F)[1]. The country is also subject to occasional harsh climatic conditions known as zud. The capital Ulaanbaatar has the lowest average temperature of any national capital in the world. Mongolia is high, cold, and windy. It has an extreme continental climate with long, cold winters and short summers, during which most of its annual precipitation falls.

With regard to the vast dry grasslands of the savannah regions, the yellow grasses also reflect and intensify sunlight. Additionally, analogous conditions are present among desert groups such as the Dinka or Nuer of Sudan [2] who live in environments in which sunlight reflects off the light colored sands of the desert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthal ... olutionary

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 17th, 2009, 7:51 am

Image

Image

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by EmperorPenguin » May 19th, 2009, 12:23 pm

"This is the face of the first anatomically-modern human to live in Europe."

Not to argue anyones points here, but this is just based on this one person they found. That is until we find another skull even older in that same general area. They need to put in disclaimers, like oldest KNOWN person, or FOUND skull. Whatever, doesn't change anything really. I'm just a stickler for detail.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by JohnnyRed » May 19th, 2009, 12:53 pm

can anybody tell me how white people came to be then? if people came from africa, then how come we have blonde haired, blue eyed people alongside black skinned, brown eyed people? what was it that changed people's skin color.

a short summary would be nice alongside some sources.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by whiskeyjack » May 19th, 2009, 1:15 pm

Has anyone stopped to think

Hey, all these non-white people started mixing in europe and the product of that mixing turned out to be white people.... Add in the cloud cover, and whats the difference from then and now?


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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by CheGuevara » May 20th, 2009, 3:17 pm

so nobody knows how white people came to be i take it then?

i find it funny that there are white people with brown features (hair and eyes) blonde features (blonde haired, blue eyed) and red features (red/orange hair with green eyes) and in betweens as well.

but there is only one type of black guy, one type of asian, one type of latino. why is that?

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by SOUFLONDON » May 20th, 2009, 6:55 pm

CheGuevara wrote:so nobody knows how white people came to be i take it then?

i find it funny that there are white people with brown features (hair and eyes) blonde features (blonde haired, blue eyed) and red features (red/orange hair with green eyes) and in betweens as well.

but there is only one type of black guy, one type of asian, one type of latino. why is that?
MAYBE u don't get out much, bro.
Do some research

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 20th, 2009, 8:32 pm

SOUFLONDON wrote:
CheGuevara wrote:so nobody knows how white people came to be i take it then?

i find it funny that there are white people with brown features (hair and eyes) blonde features (blonde haired, blue eyed) and red features (red/orange hair with green eyes) and in betweens as well.

but there is only one type of black guy, one type of asian, one type of latino. why is that?
MAYBE u don't get out much, bro.
Do some research
He doesn't get out much. And you shouldn't call him bro. He's a member of a no good race that all of Europe despises.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by SOUFLONDON » May 21st, 2009, 4:13 am

razbojnik wrote:
SOUFLONDON wrote:
CheGuevara wrote:so nobody knows how white people came to be i take it then?

i find it funny that there are white people with brown features (hair and eyes) blonde features (blonde haired, blue eyed) and red features (red/orange hair with green eyes) and in betweens as well.

but there is only one type of black guy, one type of asian, one type of latino. why is that?
MAYBE u don't get out much, bro.
Do some research
He doesn't get out much. And you shouldn't call him bro. He's a member of a no good race that all of Europe despises.
oh fe real?
wut race might that be ?

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by razbojnik » May 21st, 2009, 7:14 am

SOUFLONDON wrote:oh fe real?
wut race might that be ?
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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by CheGuevara » May 21st, 2009, 8:32 am

razbojnik wrote:He doesn't get out much. And you shouldn't call him bro. He's a member of a no good race that all of Europe despises.
envies is the proper word.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Dobre » May 21st, 2009, 4:45 pm

CheGuevara wrote:
razbojnik wrote:He doesn't get out much. And you shouldn't call him bro. He's a member of a no good race that all of Europe despises.
envies is the proper word.
Envies? You mean egg hats?

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » June 4th, 2009, 4:04 am

JohnnyRed wrote:can anybody tell me how white people came to be then? if people came from africa, then how come we have blonde haired, blue eyed people alongside black skinned, brown eyed people? what was it that changed people's skin color.

a short summary would be nice alongside some sources.
No problem...
The Biology of Skin Color: Black and White

Their findings, published in a recent issue of the Journal of Human Evolution, show a strong, somewhat predictable correlation between skin color and the strength of sunlight across the globe. But they also show a deeper, more surprising process at work: Skin color, they say, is largely a matter of vitamins.

Jablonski and Chaplin predicted the skin colors of indigenous people across the globe based on how much ultraviolet light different areas receive.
Image

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 73_04.html
Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest.

Although precise dating is impossible, several scientists speculated on the basis of its spread and variation that the mutation arose between 20,000 and 50,000 years ago. That would be consistent with research showing that a wave of ancestral humans migrated northward and eastward out of Africa about 50,000 years ago.

Unlike most mutations, this one quickly overwhelmed its ancestral version, at least in Europe, suggesting it had a real benefit. Many scientists suspect that benefit has to do with vitamin D, made in the body with the help of sunlight and critical to proper bone development.

Sun intensity is great enough in equatorial regions that the vitamin can still be made in dark-skinned people despite the ultraviolet shielding effects of melanin. In the north, where sunlight is less intense and cold weather demands that more clothing be worn, melanin's ultraviolet shielding became a liability, the thinking goes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 28_pf.html

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Silencioso » June 4th, 2009, 11:41 am

/\/\/\/\
The strange thing about slc24a5 is that it's just as common in darker caucasians like Arabs and Persians as light ones like N. Europeans and Russians. It's even fairly common in East Indian people. None of the articles I've read explain how that works. Does this gene remain dormant unless needed? Is that even possible?

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » June 7th, 2009, 5:18 am

Silencioso wrote:/\/\/\/\
The strange thing about slc24a5 is that it's just as common in darker caucasians like Arabs and Persians as light ones like N. Europeans and Russians. It's even fairly common in East Indian people. None of the articles I've read explain how that works. Does this gene remain dormant unless needed? Is that even possible?
I think it is possible that genes remain dormant till needed. We have a lot of genes of our ancestors in us that we dont need anymore. Arabs and Persians probably have it too, cause their skin is much whiter then that of Africans and there has been a lot of intermixing between them and so called caucasians.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Silencioso » June 8th, 2009, 1:32 pm

Sentenza wrote:
Silencioso wrote:/\/\/\/\
The strange thing about slc24a5 is that it's just as common in darker caucasians like Arabs and Persians as light ones like N. Europeans and Russians. It's even fairly common in East Indian people. None of the articles I've read explain how that works. Does this gene remain dormant unless needed? Is that even possible?
I think it is possible that genes remain dormant till needed. We have a lot of genes of our ancestors in us that we dont need anymore. Arabs and Persians probably have it too, cause their skin is much whiter then that of Africans and there has been a lot of intermixing between them and so called caucasians.
Persians and Arabs are caucasians.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by AllhoodPublications » June 8th, 2009, 1:42 pm

Silencioso wrote: Persians and Arabs are caucasians.
Persians have some fine ass women..

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by EmperorPenguin » June 8th, 2009, 3:15 pm

Sentenza wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:can anybody tell me how white people came to be then? if people came from africa, then how come we have blonde haired, blue eyed people alongside black skinned, brown eyed people? what was it that changed people's skin color.

a short summary would be nice alongside some sources.
No problem...
The Biology of Skin Color: Black and White

Their findings, published in a recent issue of the Journal of Human Evolution, show a strong, somewhat predictable correlation between skin color and the strength of sunlight across the globe. But they also show a deeper, more surprising process at work: Skin color, they say, is largely a matter of vitamins.

Jablonski and Chaplin predicted the skin colors of indigenous people across the globe based on how much ultraviolet light different areas receive.
Image

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 73_04.html
Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest.

Although precise dating is impossible, several scientists speculated on the basis of its spread and variation that the mutation arose between 20,000 and 50,000 years ago. That would be consistent with research showing that a wave of ancestral humans migrated northward and eastward out of Africa about 50,000 years ago.

Unlike most mutations, this one quickly overwhelmed its ancestral version, at least in Europe, suggesting it had a real benefit. Many scientists suspect that benefit has to do with vitamin D, made in the body with the help of sunlight and critical to proper bone development.

Sun intensity is great enough in equatorial regions that the vitamin can still be made in dark-skinned people despite the ultraviolet shielding effects of melanin. In the north, where sunlight is less intense and cold weather demands that more clothing be worn, melanin's ultraviolet shielding became a liability, the thinking goes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 28_pf.html

There is still some flaws to this theory. Why are Inuits a lot darker then say Japanese people even though the Inuits by contrast get a lower dose of UV and Vitamin D, and yet Scandinavian people tend to be much lighter then Inuits and even Japanese people? There's still some more info that needs to be looked at before we know for certain how we "lost" our colour. Though I always wondered why people in the further north weren't darker by evolution. Wouldn't it make more sense for us to get as much out of the sun as possible, much like polar bears having dark skin? Wouldn't that help a human more in areas where the benefit of sunlight is needed during colder, darker months? They still give newborns vitamin D boosts when they're born for the first year of their lives up here because of they lack of sunlight. Wouldn't a darker skin be more beneficial then so that when a child does get sunlight, it's able to get as much vitamin D out of it as possible? I'm not a scientist so I could be way off here. :P

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » June 10th, 2009, 7:07 am

EmperorPenguin wrote:
Sentenza wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:can anybody tell me how white people came to be then? if people came from africa, then how come we have blonde haired, blue eyed people alongside black skinned, brown eyed people? what was it that changed people's skin color.

a short summary would be nice alongside some sources.
No problem...
The Biology of Skin Color: Black and White

Their findings, published in a recent issue of the Journal of Human Evolution, show a strong, somewhat predictable correlation between skin color and the strength of sunlight across the globe. But they also show a deeper, more surprising process at work: Skin color, they say, is largely a matter of vitamins.

Jablonski and Chaplin predicted the skin colors of indigenous people across the globe based on how much ultraviolet light different areas receive.
Image

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 73_04.html
Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest.

Although precise dating is impossible, several scientists speculated on the basis of its spread and variation that the mutation arose between 20,000 and 50,000 years ago. That would be consistent with research showing that a wave of ancestral humans migrated northward and eastward out of Africa about 50,000 years ago.

Unlike most mutations, this one quickly overwhelmed its ancestral version, at least in Europe, suggesting it had a real benefit. Many scientists suspect that benefit has to do with vitamin D, made in the body with the help of sunlight and critical to proper bone development.

Sun intensity is great enough in equatorial regions that the vitamin can still be made in dark-skinned people despite the ultraviolet shielding effects of melanin. In the north, where sunlight is less intense and cold weather demands that more clothing be worn, melanin's ultraviolet shielding became a liability, the thinking goes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 28_pf.html

There is still some flaws to this theory. Why are Inuits a lot darker then say Japanese people even though the Inuits by contrast get a lower dose of UV and Vitamin D, and yet Scandinavian people tend to be much lighter then Inuits and even Japanese people? There's still some more info that needs to be looked at before we know for certain how we "lost" our colour. Though I always wondered why people in the further north weren't darker by evolution. Wouldn't it make more sense for us to get as much out of the sun as possible, much like polar bears having dark skin? Wouldn't that help a human more in areas where the benefit of sunlight is needed during colder, darker months? They still give newborns vitamin D boosts when they're born for the first year of their lives up here because of they lack of sunlight. Wouldn't a darker skin be more beneficial then so that when a child does get sunlight, it's able to get as much vitamin D out of it as possible? I'm not a scientist so I could be way off here. :P
For shizzle. :D No, but seriously you are right, im not an expert either and i dont know, but this theory convinces me the most so far. With the Inuits it might be because they are of Central Asian origin and their migration is not older then 10,000 Years, whereas east asian people have been around in China, Japan etc. for more then 50,000 years if i remember correctly.
Im not sure if i understood you right, but the dark skin blocks off sunlight in areas where there is too much UV radiation because it increases the risk of skin cancer. In Australia for example you have an extremely high rate of skin cancer among white people because they are relatively new to this environment and are physically not adapted to it unlike the very dark Aboriginees. You got "flying doctors" in Australia who visit Farmers in the Outback areas with airplanes every 6 weeks or so to check them and their families for skin cancer.
The white skin was an advantage in areas where there is less UV radiation so the sun can penetrate the skin easier so the body can make the most out of little Uv radiation and produce Vitamin D. Those whose skin was to dark died of malnutrition and lack of Vitamin D during the millenia.

And what i like most about this theory apart from the fact that it convinces me the most, is that it pisses off die-hard racists badly. :D

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by whiskeyjack » June 11th, 2009, 7:09 am

If you guys have ever been to northern manitoba, nunuvat and NWT you will know when the sun shines bright, it shines really bright up there... Some of the biggest cabbages in Canada are grown in whitehorse... Add the fact that inuits are more recent arrivals to North America, then scandinavians where to europe and it sorta makes sense. Also ive seen pure bred natives and inuits who are whiter then me

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Silencioso » June 12th, 2009, 1:28 pm

whiskeyjack wrote:If you guys have ever been to northern manitoba, nunuvat and NWT you will know when the sun shines bright, it shines really bright up there... Some of the biggest cabbages in Canada are grown in whitehorse... Add the fact that inuits are more recent arrivals to North America, then scandinavians where to europe and it sorta makes sense. Also ive seen pure bred natives and inuits who are whiter then me
yeah, aleutian people are often very light skinned,too.

There's a big difference between arctic and northern temperate. That's the problem with comparing Eskimos to Swedes. In the arctic, it's cold but the sun is ruthless. Very light skin is not ideal for that type of climate. Very light skinned people are usually found in mild northern temperate climates where it's often cloudy - northern europe, Russia, northern China etc.

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by EmperorPenguin » June 12th, 2009, 1:44 pm

I still don't understand how darker skin blocks the UV out. Being that it's darker, wouldn't that absorb more of the sunlight? That's the argument with polar bears. Their hair isn't white, its actually clear and and once thought to act as a guide for light hitting their black skin. We know that's not the case with the hair, but their skin itself still is black which is suppose to help them absorb the sunlight better, keeping them warmer, longer. Wouldn't that in theory work the same way with a human? I understand darker skin in hotter places may help the skin from burning, as it would with a pale person, but I still don't see how darker skin couldn't benefit a person in the north as well.
Sentenza wrote:
For shizzle. :D No, but seriously you are right, im not an expert either and i dont know, but this theory convinces me the most so far. With the Inuits it might be because they are of Central Asian origin and their migration is not older then 10,000 Years, whereas east asian people have been around in China, Japan etc. for more then 50,000 years if i remember correctly.
Im not sure if i understood you right, but the dark skin blocks off sunlight in areas where there is too much UV radiation because it increases the risk of skin cancer. In Australia for example you have an extremely high rate of skin cancer among white people because they are relatively new to this environment and are physically not adapted to it unlike the very dark Aboriginees. You got "flying doctors" in Australia who visit Farmers in the Outback areas with airplanes every 6 weeks or so to check them and their families for skin cancer.
The white skin was an advantage in areas where there is less UV radiation so the sun can penetrate the skin easier so the body can make the most out of little Uv radiation and produce Vitamin D. Those whose skin was to dark died of malnutrition and lack of Vitamin D during the millenia.

And what i like most about this theory apart from the fact that it convinces me the most, is that it pisses off die-hard racists badly. :D

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by Sentenza » June 12th, 2009, 4:14 pm

EmperorPenguin wrote:I still don't understand how darker skin blocks the UV out. Being that it's darker, wouldn't that absorb more of the sunlight? That's the argument with polar bears. Their hair isn't white, its actually clear and and once thought to act as a guide for light hitting their black skin. We know that's not the case with the hair, but their skin itself still is black which is suppose to help them absorb the sunlight better, keeping them warmer, longer. Wouldn't that in theory work the same way with a human? I understand darker skin in hotter places may help the skin from burning, as it would with a pale person, but I still don't see how darker skin couldn't benefit a person in the north as well.
Sentenza wrote:
For shizzle. :D No, but seriously you are right, im not an expert either and i dont know, but this theory convinces me the most so far. With the Inuits it might be because they are of Central Asian origin and their migration is not older then 10,000 Years, whereas east asian people have been around in China, Japan etc. for more then 50,000 years if i remember correctly.
Im not sure if i understood you right, but the dark skin blocks off sunlight in areas where there is too much UV radiation because it increases the risk of skin cancer. In Australia for example you have an extremely high rate of skin cancer among white people because they are relatively new to this environment and are physically not adapted to it unlike the very dark Aboriginees. You got "flying doctors" in Australia who visit Farmers in the Outback areas with airplanes every 6 weeks or so to check them and their families for skin cancer.
The white skin was an advantage in areas where there is less UV radiation so the sun can penetrate the skin easier so the body can make the most out of little Uv radiation and produce Vitamin D. Those whose skin was to dark died of malnutrition and lack of Vitamin D during the millenia.

And what i like most about this theory apart from the fact that it convinces me the most, is that it pisses off die-hard racists badly. :D

I would say that Polar bears hair is clear/white because of better Camouflage on the North Pole and so they can approach their prey. Black does accumulate the heat but blocks off UV rays. Thats why the nomads in the Sahara wear all black, cause it cools them down. They sweat like crazy underneath their dresses and the air circulation combined with the sweat cools their body down. No joke. Maybe the black skin of Polar bears keeps them warmer? I dont know. But they dont have to worry about Vitamin D anyways because they are exclusive carnivores :P

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by whiskeyjack » June 15th, 2009, 8:06 am

You can get vitamin D from fish and seal tissue, if your a polar bear... Bcause even though its super bright half the year, its super dark the other half

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Re: Revealed: the face of the first European

Unread post by BakalaKing » May 26th, 2010, 5:57 am

STR8 BULL-SHIT, WE COME FROM THE NEANDERTHAL , THE NEANDERTHAL WERE BLACK ? THEY WERE MONKEYS.

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