Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 2nd, 2010, 3:20 pm

Just because Chuco Cabalero says that drug addicts ,ex convicts, and gang members were the only people with tats doesn't mean its true. Maybe around East LA that was the case but they were other sub cultures during the 60s that had tattoos like bikers ,stoners, and rock n rollers.

The OG is a good example of gray and black tats, but can you be certain he didn't get those added on as of lately during this era( the 2000s) or during the 90s ? I don't take those pics as concrete proof that the gray and black tattoos done by Chicanos during the last 20 years were the same Chicano styled tattoos done in the 60s and 70s

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » October 2nd, 2010, 5:39 pm

mayugastank wrote:okay time out --we are sidetracked.

Since we disagree on some things lets agree on what we agree on.

1.Los Angelos is the capital of the tattoo world.
2. Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas
3.Tattoos till recently were only worn by criminals or convicts or gangmembers
4. That those criminals-gangmembers were predominately white southwestern staters or chicano bangers.
5. That black and grey is a style-that that style was used predominately by convict cholos.
6.That only the Yukuza have a full body tattoo portfolio-alongside chicanos( meaning that their is a definet way of placing the tattoos).

Are we in agreement?
No we're not in agreement. Several criminal subcultures have full body tattoo traditions, notably russian mafia. Full body tattoos seem to be a common way to express full commitment to the criminal life, clearly marking someone as outside mainstream society.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 2nd, 2010, 8:36 pm

I mentioned them earlier............so YUKUZA-CHICANOS-VORE- and whom else silencio? whom else......although everyone does most the patterns today are chicano ---not VORE and sometimes YUKUZA--they get their respect...the rest? IMITATORS...and poorly at that!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 3rd, 2010, 3:05 am

ViciousRidah wrote:Just because Chuco Cabalero says that drug addicts ,ex convicts, and gang members were the only people with tats doesn't mean its true. Maybe around East LA that was the case but they were other sub cultures during the 60s that had tattoos like bikers ,stoners, and rock n rollers.

The OG is a good example of gray and black tats, but can you be certain he didn't get those added on as of lately during this era( the 2000s) or during the 90s ? I don't take those pics as concrete proof that the gray and black tattoos done by Chicanos during the last 20 years were the same Chicano styled tattoos done in the 60s and 70s

IXNAY~~bikers gained momentum in around and living near the cholo---picture 50 states/thousands of citys and millions of whites YET ONLY HERE in LA do whites biker clubs begin the label of 1% of outlaws. The Hells Angels were the first -the AB the first prison gang--yet these 2 white sets are 50 years younger then Americas oldest gang ---and their is not a one gang hardly in all ELA that is as young as the HA. The bikers have adopted many of the chicanos tattoos and NOT the other way around. For outside of California whites didnt have hardly any tattoo culture! Rock N rollers like whom had ink back then ? ELVIS?BIG BOPPER...come on dude. That didnt take off with rockers till way late in the game! and even they used the placements of the criminal convict chicano . I knew a guy from WF who had everything CHUCO had back in the 90s -he was in his 70s. Their isnt gangmembers outside the Italian Mafia with the history of the gangs of ELA. So naturally we are gonna be pioneers. Tattoos in those days were simle---but the zoot suit riots had the pigs striping cholos down naked in search of tattoos---even in the 1940s cholos were heavily tattooed.
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THE SEARCH FOR THE FAMOUS CHICANO TATTOO even back then striped naked looking for that ink the cholos were known for
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 3rd, 2010, 12:24 pm

mayugastank wrote:
IXNAY~~bikers gained momentum in around and living near the cholo---picture 50 states/thousands of citys and millions of whites YET ONLY HERE in LA do whites biker clubs begin the label of 1% of outlaws. The Hells Angels were the first -the AB the first prison gang--yet these 2 white sets are 50 years younger then Americas oldest gang ---and their is not a one gang hardly in all ELA that is as young as the HA. The bikers have adopted many of the chicanos tattoos and NOT the other way around. For outside of California whites didnt have hardly any tattoo culture! Rock N rollers like whom had ink back then ? ELVIS?BIG BOPPER...come on dude. That didnt take off with rockers till way late in the game! and even they used the placements of the criminal convict chicano . I knew a guy from WF who had everything CHUCO had back in the 90s -he was in his 70s. Their isnt gangmembers outside the Italian Mafia with the history of the gangs of ELA. So naturally we are gonna be pioneers. Tattoos in those days were simle---but the zoot suit riots had the pigs striping cholos down naked in search of tattoos---even in the 1940s cholos were heavily tattooed.

The point was made to clarify thant not only did chicano or white gang members had tats but also bikers sported them,and I'm not just talking about 1% outlaw bikers either. I'm not sure if ''Hells Angels'' was the first biker gang, but that really doesn't matter, bikers in general have always had tats on them ,from the 60s till now. This white dirty biker I knew from working at a tow truck company told me he had his tat for 40 years and so did his pops. I also know that marines have always had tats cause its a tradition in there.You said something that up until recently other groups and circles rather than chicano bangers didn't have sport any tats.But Another example of a sub culture group of people who have always had tats were the rock n rollers like the punk , garage dwelling grudge rock n roll fools from the late 80s to early 90s. In my opinion tattooing really became popular in every state during the late 90s but it was popular among the general population in Cali probably around the early 90s.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 3rd, 2010, 4:25 pm

Vicous Ridah

But Another example of a sub culture group of people who have always had tats were the rock n rollers like the punk , garage dwelling grudge rock n roll fools from the late 80s to early 90s. In my opinion tattooing really became popular in every state during the late 90s but it was popular among the general population in Cali probably around the early 90s.
Tattooing was extremely popular amongst chicanos since before I remember -The neighborhood I grew up in ELA -had all manner of convivcts in and out of prisons during the 80s' .Punks-Rockers were getting tattooed back then your right...but I remember seeing their first designs and thnking DAM ...that Anarchy symbol and burnt American flag. Then a few years later they begun getting spin off and knocks off the full body suit-worn by chicanos even during the 1980s--Boxers photos show a heavily tattoed cholo -the picture was taken in 1985,well before American mainstream tattooing--reminiscent of TUPAC...hmm.....another thing you mentioned ROCKERS in the 1960s but I see you reniged on that! ELVIS -BIG BOPPER-SMOKEY-RICHIE VALENZ-whom pray me are we talking about that got tatted up back then? That was fad that started with white rockers in the 1980s. Biker gangs --the first outlaw biker gang-Hells Angels--were tattooed no one denies this---but take a loot at their patterns and youll see the CHOLO artwork ---in fact --a history of modern tattooing traces the roots of the biker tattoos to California and to convict criminal chicanos whom a white inmate said " Mexicans are the best tattooist in prisons" so really just like in teh case of rappers MEXICANS have being tattooing whites around these parts for along time. Its why outside of Sailor Jerry -a form of nautical tattooing --their are per se ...either no region known for a style of tattooing except the southwest and no style except for chicano gangster tatts. Even Sailor Jerry begun getting many ideas from the cholo. You mentioned that tattooing became popular around the early 90s here and you can ask anyone out here ----whom sported tattoos in this area? it was that criminal chicano and that white convict and junkie---who in reality had the entire swag of a gangster ass mexican from the handle bar mustache to the tattooed look. Shoot their patterns are identical to a cholos from the 1960s---Now why would tattooing become popular in the southwest first( since even you acknowledge this) I mean there are 50 states --thousands of citys and millions of people. Why here? BECAUSE the influence of the cholo making it mainstream. We were really the first to make it fashion. A clean ass white T and Dickies with tattoo peeking out the back of the back of teh neck or a few letters behind the ear. For the chicana a rose on the wrist -a fancy caligraphy on the ankle and breast....all the new styles are plays on this shit and not no YUKUZA . But to keep it real they are by definition pioneers and many patterns they did were also done by the cholo --dragons were heavily copied by teh drug addcit ..."hence the term chasing the dragon"

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 3rd, 2010, 6:13 pm

I guess what I am saying needs to be done in a piecemeal fashion--is their a form of tattooing in southern america? central america? canada?...NO -NO -NO. That leaves the USA. Is their a Midwest-South-Northwest-East Coast style of tattooing? NO-NO-NO and NO. Is their a Southwestern? YES. Is it filled with symbols/lettering/placement/color? Absoluetely. WHY? .....chicanos. period. This style has gotten so popular that distinguishing it in anyone tatts is impossible --everyone has one throwback to ELA. Whether it be the placement--some design---or lettering and font.

No if you care to focus on the rest of the world you can hit every country and region and see that russian criminals-japenese yukuza are the only finished products. Shoot even the originators of the word tattoo---dont have a complete package as their designs were usually limited to the leg or groin area.The style is squirlly lines--spheres--horizontal lines and circles within circles. They dont really have even a pattern outside of the abstract!....No guns a blazing--wording--saying--secret symbols---figures---

The chicano does! and its why are shit is the hit-the fashion-and what to do! Its a lovely thing and outside of these states no one really knows how and where it began. I would go as far as to say that its the only hybrid american tattoo and that not another race on this side of the world has anything similar and no other race has anything even remotely popular -except those Japs whom we been battling for dominance in the industry with for along time and I give them their props--theyve been a worthy enemy and have countered anything we have been able to do with some really fresh and new.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 3rd, 2010, 7:19 pm

mayugastank wrote: another thing you mentioned ROCKERS in the 1960s but I see you reniged on that! ELVIS -BIG BOPPER-SMOKEY-RICHIE VALENZ-whom pray me are we talking about that got tatted up back then? That was fad that started with white rockers in the 1980s.
Yes that was definitely an error on my part, fanatics in the rock n roll culture were not getting tats in the 60s of course, they started to get tatted up during the 80s and that's way before it became mainstream,that was my point, they got it way before it became popular amongst all Americans in the late 1990s, of course I was slipping about them having tats in the 60s but that's no biggie.I think you got me.


mayugastank wrote: in fact --a history of modern tattooing traces the roots of the biker tattoos to California and to convict criminal chicanos whom a white inmate
Maybe so, but even the bikers were not getting full body tats back then(in the 1960s), and definitely were not getting BLACK AND GRAY style tattoos back then either.I have met few of these dudes at the these lil car convention shows(which were predominantly chicano demos lol ), and I remember some of them rambling and raving they didn't wait to get the new wave style of tattoos of tight ass designs the little less younger members had.

mayugastank wrote: But to keep it real they are by definition pioneers and many patterns they did were also done by the cholo --dragons were heavily copied by teh drug addcit ..."hence the term chasing the dragon"

Exactly the dragon , the dragon scales, the rose pedals, and the colorful designs do seem to be Japanese innovation that influenced many tattoo artist today. I am no art expert and I ain't pretending to be, but what exact depictions and strike ups would you define as the ''chicano tattooing style''.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 3rd, 2010, 7:35 pm

mayugastank wrote:
Shoot even the originators of the word tattoo---dont have a complete package as their designs were usually limited to the leg or groin area.The style is squirlly lines--spheres--horizontal lines and circles within circles. They dont really have even a pattern outside of the abstract!....No guns a blazing--wording--saying--secret symbols---figures---

LMAO . Yea but even if that was all they created , there are many people across the planet that have those designs inked on their skin , so I would say their very influential on the tattooing world despite any ones opinions .



mayugastank wrote: no other race has anything even remotely popular -except those Japs whom we been battling for dominance in the industry with for along time and I give them their props--theyve been a worthy enemy and have countered anything we have been able to do with some really fresh and new.
Remember people that get tattoos would usually get something personal, their requested tattoos wouldn't be something they probably saw off the wall in the parlor or in the artist's sample book , so they might get a design that's something from their own culture or have a picture of their dead homie or loved one inked on their skin.

mayugastank wrote: Then a few years later they begun getting spin off and knocks off the full body suit-worn by chicanos even during the 1980s--Boxers photos show a heavily tattoed cholo -the picture was taken in 1985,well before American mainstream tattooing--
Alright ,lets see some examples, that would kind of seal the deal on this discussion if they did have them.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by FINITOO » October 3rd, 2010, 8:12 pm

KOREAN INVENT ALL MEXICAN IN PYONGYANG LAB FOR TO MAKE THEM PAINT STUPID TATTOO ON THEIR BODY FOR TO BLOCK THE SUN WHEN THEY PICK STRAWBERRY

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 3rd, 2010, 8:35 pm

Vicious ridah wrote"

Alright ,lets see some examples, that would kind of seal the deal on this discussion if they did have them.

As per rocker tattoos -the spin offs they would get were mainly to do with placements and the writing the cholo made popular. But they do get spins on chicanos charra and smoke! Founder of STARS AND STRAPS : JON ELLIOT--TRAVIS BARKER---

GOOD CHARLOTTE rocker ....check out the old school cholo tattoos.

Its on and on --if I took the koi fish and made it black and grey instead of color and dropped some banner with some old english on it --it would still be jap.
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founder of stars and straps--getting done by cartoon
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um yea ESE~~~~~GOOD CHARLOTTE
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ALL WORK DONE BY FAMOUS CHICANO ARTISTS
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 3rd, 2010, 8:44 pm

GOOD CHARLOTTE. All the patterns the cholo made --splashed with color and sold as a white rocker tatt!
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 4th, 2010, 1:03 pm

Classic pics please!!!!!!!!!!

Those still aren't old school classic pics of chicanos sporting ''black and gray'' tattoos. If you have pictures of chicano boxers,gangsters, chulas,or convicts who have the black and gray tattoo style way back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, then lets see them.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 12:12 am

ViciousRidah wrote:Classic pics please!!!!!!!!!!

Those still aren't old school classic pics of chicanos sporting ''black and gray'' tattoos. If you have pictures of chicano boxers,gangsters, chulas,or convicts who have the black and gray tattoo style way back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, then lets see them.
2 things that really get me about this whole copying that cholo look is that fools dont even realize how much BS chicanos went thru for those tatts -and how outlaw it was really even to get inked up in the early 1990s! Now those patterns are everywhere-on skateboards-on rappers bodys-on actors-on basketball playerz-on asians-on cars-clothing JUICY COUTURE-on MTV on BET. I mean EVERYFUCKING BODY in the USA has ganked the whole cholo getdown. Blacks can say well shoot people been doing that to blacks forever but their is a big difference in that the very essence of the cholo was his tattoos--its his long hair like in SAMSON. It is so mimicked guy that I cant step outside any state for very long without seeing some throwback to the flavor that ELA put on the map. Hands down in this country the style the chol0 made popular from placements -fonts-writing is TOP DOWN-everywhere. Every major brand of clothing is coming right outta LA with ZERO ....ZERO grant me throwbacks to ELA. The sit is an afront -blacks never dealt with persecution due to their skin ink.Yet it was extremely common to have cops pull over groups of chicanos and have them strip off their shirts to check for some ink. And a peeping tattoo out the cuff of the neck or a peeping ink outside of a Long Sleeve was grounds for stop and question. Yet these fucking NOBODYS wanna get my whole goddam heritage tattooed on them like some marks.Shit makes me sick.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 12:14 am

CHOLO By KAREN von HAHN

When the smallest of the Mexican dwarf wrestlers somersaulted off the ropes, the crowd went wild. Dressed in T-shirts emblazoned with glow-in-the-dark images of Mexico's patron saint, the Virgin of Guadalupe, and sporting rose tattoos and clipped goatees, the audience at last week's Lucha VaVoom show in Toronto (a showcase of the high-kitsch, low-rent school of Mexican wrestling known as lucha libre) may have being yelling "Uno, Dos, Tres!" with corazon, but they were really there as a style statement.

Like their L.A. hipster counterparts, who flock to lucha shows, collect lucha figurines and tune in stoned to Mucha Lucha! (the No. 1 kids cartoon in the United States), they are barrio wannabes. And their "cholo" look -- wearing bandannas folded flat over their buzz cuts and sporting clothing tattooed with Old English lettering just like the Latino outlaws, or cholos, of L.A.'s gang-riddled East Side -- is fast replacing hip-hop as the next new style signifier of street credibility.

Body-hugging Hollywood label Juicy Couture, a favourite with the yummy-mummy set, puts Old English font (the style of cholo prison tattoos) on its must-have label. Designer jean label Rogan embroiders it right on the trouser leg. Rap artist Missy Elliott and popster Christina Aguilera have recently worn bandannas and cholo-style "brims" on stage.

"We love cholo," stylist Trish Summerville, who dresses Pink, Mya, Ricky Martin and Aguilera, recently told USA Today. An indication of how quickly cholo is being absorbed into the mainstream is that the identical Olsen twins have been photographed in identical low-riding bandannas, while the Gap's cords, embroidered with Gothic script, were modelled in an ad campaign by Madonna.

No Doubt singer Gwen Stefani unveiled her collection of handbags for Le Sportsac last fall. Called L.A.M.B. (for love, angel, music, baby), Stefani's bags feature cholo's characteristic Gothic text, in homage, the singer said in a press release, to her Orange County roots. According to The New York Times, her new line for spring, which includes tight tank tops, gaucho pants and jackets hung with chains, is "infused with cholo references."

Other celebrities, from Justin Timberlake to Beyoncé Knowles, are flocking down to the real barrio --bodyguards and posse no doubt in tow -- to see famed tattoo artist Mr. Cartoon, who specializes in the kind of fine-line tattoos worn by imprisoned gang members. Using a sharpened guitar string threaded through an empty pen, and ink in shades of grey and black, just the way the inmates do it at San Quentin, Mr. Cartoon is the one who gave Eminem his signature look. "It gave him an edge, man," Mr. Cartoon told the Los Angeles Times. "He was a pretty boy and we had to ugly him up a little bit -- make him ugly like us."

According to the latest census, Hispanics are now the largest minority group in the United States, and Hispanic Americans aged 18 to 24 are the fastest-growing segment of the population. But they are clearly not the only sector buying into the look. Joker, Mr. Cartoon's secondary business, is a line of clothing, jewellery and accessories that now brings in $1.5-million a year. And tough, new cholo fashion labels, such as Denver's Chingaso Gear (chingaso being the cholo term for gang warfare) are becoming as ubiquitous as taco stands.

For an ad campaign this spring meant to reposition its brand to a younger, hipper market, Canada's Radio Shack chose cholo-Gothic typeface. Matt Litzinger of the Toronto-based ad firm Gee, Jeffrey & Partners, was the creative director.

"The choice of that kind of font made it look authentic," Litzinger explains . "Basically, you do everything you can to make it look like the ad you dreamed up in a boardroom doesn't look like it was dreamed up in a boardroom by a bunch of middle-aged white guys."

He takes his style cues from the fascinations of his target audience. "Part of [rapper] 50 Cent's popularity is that he has been shot nine times," he says. "He's lived it, so it feels more real." Realness, in an overhyped world, being achieved only through association with outlaw culture.

"The whole hip-hop fashion of wearing low-riders, for instance, comes from prison," Litzinger explains. "Inmates wear their pants like that in jail because they aren't allowed to wear belts so they can't conceal weapons. Here, we chose the Old English font because it's the one they choose to tattoo themselves with."

Fashion's infatuation with true grit is nothing new: Leather jackets were first worn by fifties rebels, and denim by sharecroppers. More recently, the homeless have inspired Jean Paul Gaultier and the dress of Sicilian prostitutes has showed up in collections from Dolce & Gabbana. What is interesting about the advent of cholo style is how bald the references are.

Joseph Rodriguez, a Latino photojournalist who documented cholo life for a book called East Side Stories: Gang Life in East LA in the late nineties (now on the shelves as a style bible at Urban Outfitters), remembers "guys coming around with clipboards from Ralph Lauren and Calvin Klein asking us about our clothes."

According to Rodriguez, it has now become commonplace at a store in the barrio called Sounds of Music for groups of Japanese kids "all cholo'd out," to walk in and snap up hundreds of T-shirts with religious icons and elaborate drawings. "Then they go out and buy a cholo ride like a '63 Chevrolet and ship it all to Japan."

What they don't realize, he says, is that even though these fashion tourists are playing dress-up, they are still playing with fire. "I have seen mothers in Stockholm picking up their kids wearing hats with old English lettering saying 'EastSide,' 'WestSide,' " Rodriguez says. "What they don't seem to realize is that if you go around toting these wears in certain neighbourhoods in L.A., you are likely to have a confrontation that could lead to serious violence and maybe death."

The thrill of cholo, of course, is that it is style tinged with the threat of violence. That it is fashion transformed, for once, into a matter of life or death is what gives it its all-important credibility.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 12:27 am

ViciousRidah wrote:Classic pics please!!!!!!!!!!

Those still aren't old school classic pics of chicanos sporting ''black and gray'' tattoos. If you have pictures of chicano boxers,gangsters, chulas,or convicts who have the black and gray tattoo style way back in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, then lets see them.


Those pics were references to to your question on rockers who took cholo style tattoos. GOOD CHARLOTTE is a white punk band but check out those lil bitches ink. Now CYPRESS PARk-SUBLIME-

Whats get me is how blacks and others try to say "OH ITS WEST COAST ITS HOW WE DO" Bullllllllshiiiiiiiitttttttt........it isnt West Coast is CHICANO. Its EAST LOS-Its US. Snoop DRE-ICE T-GAME-TUPAC-and now every white boy band and every rocker band is just fragantly defying the and questioning the cholo attire. Every show on MTV has got some punk ass bitch tattooed down in our flavor. FUCK THAT. Blacks would NEVER EVER lay down like that.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 1:51 pm

GWEN STEFANI THAT WHITE CHOLA!! the whole rocker billy tattooed ass white boy look is a jack move off my people--its 10x more popular then any style blacks brought whites! yet for it all blacks still wanna lay a claim to fame ---and say they had any hand in our designs or style---

[youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXFXwenVJg4][/youtube]




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXFXwenVJg4[/video]

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 5th, 2010, 2:28 pm

mayugastank wrote:

Those pics were references to to your question on rockers who took cholo style tattoos. GOOD CHARLOTTE is a white punk band but check out those lil women ink. Now CYPRESS PARk-SUBLIME-

Whats get me is how blacks and others try to say "OH ITS WEST COAST ITS HOW WE DO" Bullllllllshiiiiiiiitttttttt........it isnt West Coast is CHICANO. Its EAST LOS-Its US. Snoop DRE-ICE T-GAME-TUPAC-and now every white boy band and every rocker band is just fragantly defying the and questioning the cholo attire. Every show on MTV has got some punk ass bitch tattooed down in our flavor. fu-- THAT. Blacks would NEVER EVER lay down like that.

I wasn't really pressing that issue ,people in rock n roll culture do get modern chicano style tattoos, along with many others . But the point was to try and convey on how modern chicano tattooing came about, its evolution, its metamorphosis,and continuum you from much older styles. It still wasn't the same as it was in the 60s,70s, and 80s. That's my whole surmise for this topic, can you really post pics of chicanos in the 60s,70s or even the 80s of having the same ''black and gray'' tattoo style of the modern era.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 3:24 pm

Heres a few theres quite big files I aint been able to upload-Toonerville and LA MESA are some historic latino gangs in SD county and NE Los Angelos. Those guys were tatted up in teh flavor seen on everyone now-back in the 1960s. Boxer from La EME pics show all teh styles seen today-even the clowns are seen in the last cholo pics I uploaded
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LA F13.jpg
early 1980s
LA F13.jpg (10.18 KiB) Viewed 6639 times
arizona4-.jpg
East Los Angelos MAravilla
arizona4-.jpg (17.39 KiB) Viewed 6639 times
arizona18-199x300.jpg 1960.jpg
maravilla goes back to the 1930s
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 5th, 2010, 4:44 pm

Thats cool mayugastank but they still do not resemble the modern ''black and gray Chicano'' tattoos of the late 90s and 2000s. The shading, the meticulous details, the designs, and elaborate themes that the modern chicano black and gray tattoos have, just don't have the resemblance of the Chicano tattoos in the 1980s. If you have any Chicano tattoo pics of the 70s to the 80s that could really show and prove that the black and gray style was the same as the modern ones , then you will have some validity to your argument , other than that , you can't deny modern Chicano tattoo designs were influenced from other cultures artistic styles.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 5:22 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:Thats cool mayugastank but they still do not resemble the modern ''black and gray Chicano'' tattoos of the late 90s and 2000s. The shading, the meticulous details, the designs, and elaborate themes that the modern chicano black and gray tattoos have, just don't have the resemblance of the Chicano tattoos in the 1980s. If you have any Chicano tattoo pics of the 70s to the 80s that could really show and prove that the black and gray style was the same as the modern ones , then you will have some validity to your argument , other than that , you can't deny modern Chicano tattoo designs were influenced from other cultures artistic styles.
I can deny it. But you know you did bring up valid points on how taggers who joined gangs influenced the art. I just never looked at it from that perspective, so yea they really did and matter of fact my boyz who were taggers growing up really changed the whole flavor of dress and old school cholo writing-but the taggers and gangs were always extensions of the same out here in LA. Meaning to say that the recruits of gangs had been taggers since the 1980s. Taggers and gangs were usually younger brother/older brother figures. You let your younger brother grow up a lil --he looks up to you and trys to mimick you and eventually becomes you ---bringing his growing up days with him. An example of this firsthand was a cousin I had who got out the pen in the early 90s and did his bit in the 87-92 range. When he came out the pen he was sporting all the tattoos that had been always seen and he sported -chino shoes and slick back hair-and his pants were extremely tight. Well after getting clowned on by his younger cousins for a hot second--he went and bought the size 40s and Gnikes-and shaved his wig-then fit right in. Cholos I knew brought alot to the graff scene and taggers brought to the cholo scene--yet dont confuse mexican taggers with black taggers as the 2 never dressed -wrote or did artistry the same. But I get your point it just took a little investigating to see. I mean I dont get how you saw it since it really isnt that obvious to the eye. Yet despite this much of the placements many of the designs and many of the fonts have remained the same. The cholo graff has still retained its flavor yet -obviously has been affected by those taggers whom joined gangs. We have always had sick artists-but yor question makes it sound like art exists in a vaccuum as if the day doesnt influence the art and the art doesnt influence the day. Yet even artists can call a style a victorian-cubist-spherical-african, realism,.......and everyone ahd their time but they no doubt were big influencers and were influenced as well. Picassos style of art invented camoflague and He remarked " we have just changed the world". Chicano style art is constantly evolving and it is with no argument the biggest influence on this side of the earth.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 5th, 2010, 6:58 pm

The history of black and grey and americana tattooing'
GOOD TIME CHARLIES-first professional tattoo shop to practice the style of ink seen on cholos.
Bought by ED HARDY and relocated to San Fransisco
First black and grey pioneers : ED HARDY-FREDDY NEGRETE-JACK RUDY-
All of which took the styles of the chicano prisoner in their designs.

In the picture below are Jack Rudy -Freddy Negrete-and many other famous tattoo artists -Jack Rudy is white but has adopted 100% the slang mannerisms and lifestyle of his hometown of East LA. He is well known for having worked and designed along with Freddy Negrete many many many of the patterns of ED HARDY . If its a wonder to anyone WHY so many latino gangster style images show up on Christian Audigers line that should be enough to tell you that the ideas all came from SOCAL chicanos. Although somehow we are being shut out ....
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wanna be cholos the lot of them!
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 5th, 2010, 9:58 pm

mayugastank wrote:
I can deny it. But you know you did bring up valid points on how taggers who joined gangs influenced the art. I just never looked at it from that perspective, so yea they really did and matter of fact my boyz who were taggers growing up really changed the whole flavor of dress and old school cholo writing-but the taggers and gangs were always extensions of the same out here in LA. Meaning to say that the recruits of gangs had been taggers since the 1980s. Taggers and gangs were usually younger brother/older brother figures. You let your younger brother grow up a lil --he looks up to you and trys to mimick you and eventually becomes you ---bringing his growing up days with him. An example of this firsthand was a cousin I had who got out the pen in the early 90s and did his bit in the 87-92 range. When he came out the pen he was sporting all the tattoos that had been always seen and he sported -chino shoes and slick back hair-and his pants were extremely tight. Well after getting clowned on by his younger cousins for a hot second--he went and bought the size 40s and Gnikes-and shaved his wig-then fit right in. Cholos I knew brought alot to the graff scene and taggers brought to the cholo scene--yet dont confuse mexican taggers with black taggers as the 2 never dressed -wrote or did artistry the same. But I get your point it just took a little investigating to see. I mean I dont get how you saw it since it really isnt that obvious to the eye. Yet despite this much of the placements many of the designs and many of the fonts have remained the same. The cholo graff has still retained its flavor yet -obviously has been affected by those taggers whom joined gangs. We have always had sick artists-but yor question makes it sound like art exists in a vaccuum as if the day doesnt influence the art and the art doesnt influence the day. Yet even artists can call a style a victorian-cubist-spherical-african, realism,.......and everyone ahd their time but they no doubt were big influencers and were influenced as well. Picassos style of art invented camoflague and He remarked " we have just changed the world". Chicano style art is constantly evolving and it is with no argument the biggest influence on this side of the earth.
I grew up in the Southside of Houston, I remember being a young nigga seeing the LTC and SWC ripping and running around the H-town. I remember their get down,and after school I would be coming home catching them deep in the streets with 63 chevys and capris swangin on daytons ,deep as ever all through out the block posted, blasting their sound out their system. But I noticed the cholo style when I was growin up, and noticed they adapted some things from the brothas ,but for the most part they had their own style of course.


I could remember some of the tats on the Veteran cholos and some of them had it fully inked on their bodies, but not like how cholos have it on them today. I recall them having pictures of stuff like loved ones passed away and somberos but not too detailed like they are now. I recall the new detailed designs coming into play really in the 2000s, and even now today I notice some of the tats on Veteranos are way different from the YG cholo bangers of yesterday.Some of them have obviously had them done over to make it look updated.


But yea that was my whole point,I'm not saying that chicano artist don't play a big impact on the tattoo art world, I'm just saying they took certain elements from other arts to propel them into prominence today. I'm not going to even say that ,bikers ,punk rocker and other tattoo enthusiast didn't take ideas from chicanos back in the day,( like the idea of writing words with Old English letters in every signature), but I think chicanos refining the tattoo art in the recent years did help them become very influential in the tattoo art world.I wouldn't necessarily compare the cultural exchanges of black urban art with Chicano art culture, too Elvis ripping off Chuck Berry in rock n roll ,too hippie ripping from afros from militant brothers of the 70s, too ska artist influencing pioneer skinheads, but the chicano tattoo artist were definitely influenced by black urban art.


As for the Chicano tagger having their own style well I think that would probably go back to the murals all through out the barrios , like I said blacks had murals on the walls of the hood in the 70s it was black power pictures , although I don't think it was the exact same thing as tagging but it was art. I'm assuming that chicano tagging was just a hip hop style of tagging but I may be wrong.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by 19DAGO04 » October 6th, 2010, 12:49 pm

mayugastank wrote:Heres a few theres quite big files I aint been able to upload-Toonerville and LA MESA are some historic latino gangs in SD county and NE Los Angelos

What? There has never been a La Mesa gang in Dago. There is a city called La Mesa..full of upper and middle class people. Predominatly white, and it never had any Latino gangs. And we all know that TVR if from LA..i don't think they ride in the -NELA- car though....

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 6th, 2010, 4:38 pm

So really people who have investigated gangs -and even the tattoo artwork done now -always come back to El Paso and East Los Angelos -those are the origins of what constitutes modern gangs. The tattoos -dress-graffiti-writing and most of the clothing. Yea sure taggers did alot to change it up -but their were artists out here doing some off the wall shit in the 1980s for sure. I got my first tattoo on the top of a washer/set by an OG from White Fence for $15 bucks when I was 13 years old. Although a little faded its still extremely fresh and still the style of the day. HE whipped it out in 10 minutes flat. Its that skill which made the cholo art what it is. And black flavor didnt really and still not nakedly seen too much in chicano designs. The head tattoo/side of neck tat/stomache ab shot. Really since you and others are living close in proximaty to the cholo -you arent grasping that whole tattooed -for fashion and keeping it clean look --is RARE and its not done anywhere else on earth till the cholo did it. The YUKUZA gets their credit as they were the first to become masters at color -long before anyone. They literally have hundreds of patterns that are seen on every shirt ( HARDY: practiced under Japenese masters and under Chicano gangmembers while owning -the first black and grey style shop called GOODTIME CHARLIES TATTOOLAND pants, skateboard and skin. The cholo art is just as much in demand and just as seen. What isnt realized is that though we live around the style and have seen it metamorphisize ...its a fresh new look to the rest of the world. Even to brothers outside the enviroment of the CHOLO like in NYC and the SOUTH. Its probably why those MTV/BET brothers would so arrogantly appropriate the patterns of the vato from the street. A brother out here wouldnt be so fragrant in doing it because his whole life he has grown up seeing those patterns on the " ESEs".....and well he knows he would look like a bitch biting a vatos stilo. But Los Angelos is the mecca for fashion and art and although it may seem normal to us around here to view the vato and his ink as his signature .....that whole getdown was never done on this hemisphere before-Not NYC and THE DURTY SOUTH and not amongst whites outside of the SOUTHWEST till recently. Yet despite the concept of tattoos for as long as anyone can remeber only the CHOLO and the Japenese criminal have what would be considered a finsihed product. Anything else added or upgraded to both our styles is an accessory and not an outfit because our outfits have been done for long time WITHOUT anyones input.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 6th, 2010, 4:41 pm

19DAGO04 wrote:
mayugastank wrote:Heres a few theres quite big files I aint been able to upload-Toonerville and LA MESA are some historic latino gangs in SD county and NE Los Angelos

What? There has never been a La Mesa gang in Dago. There is a city called La Mesa..full of upper and middle class people. Predominatly white, and it never had any Latino gangs. And we all know that TVR if from LA..i don't think they ride in the -NELA- car though....

I meant OTAY.....I guess SAN DIEGO has got some history as this gang is considered to be 80+ years old and still extremely strong. I have some photos with OGs from their and their ink going back to the 60s. Didnt know SD had a reputable history always viewed that side of California as a knock off of Los Angelos-till here recently.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 6th, 2010, 4:51 pm

VICIOUS RIDAH"

'I grew up in the Southside of Houston, I remember being a young nigga seeing the LTC and SWC ripping and running around the H-town. I remember their get down,and after school I would be coming home catching them deep in the streets with 63 chevys and capris swangin on daytons ,deep as ever all through out the block posted, blasting their sound out their system. But I noticed the cholo style when I was growin up, and noticed they adapted some things from the brothas ,but for the most part they had their own style of course."


Vicious you arent getting how rare it really is for a immigrant group of people to have their own style. Blacks and Mexicans and Occassionally Puerto Ricans( though they take most of their sauce from brothers) are essentially the only groups of Hyphentated-Americans to not completely sell out or wash off their home countrys after the second generation of children is born here. And as far as street style ....NO GROUPS besides black and mexicans can say they brought anything to the worlds culture-the street culture of this country or any regional flavor. Its why I single blacks out ---for soem things I believe they appropriated from ESEs. Not because of some jealousy but merely to battle with the only other hyphenated-american culture. I dont pick out Samoans/Armenians/Greeks/Viets/Cambos because they brought ZERO influence and merely appropriated the styles of the brothers and vatos. Just picture every group of immigrant in this country and youll see that they all either hold on to their homelands flavor for first generation and by the second generation tehy either mimick white society /black society or the style of the street vato .........whom white society dislikes evenly. Yet for all their crys on crime and criminals these white fools dont have a problem is jacking a VATOS whole dam demeanor! Because blacks havent nearly taken the flavor of the SOUTHWEST chicano as TAPOUT/WWE/BIKERS/ROCKERS have !

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 6th, 2010, 9:21 pm

WOULD BLACKS EVER LAY DOWN THE WAY WE HAVE WITH ED HARDY AND SLIM THUG AND SLIM SHADY AND WEEZY AND JEEZY AND BOW WOW AND WHO ELSE DAM KNOWS TAKING THE VERY MOST PROUNOUNCED DESIGNS AND PLACEMENTS OF THE CHOLO? I mean waz up cholo ? This our very essence -a cholo without his tattoos is just a fool with baggy pants on! And dam well remember that BS argument that every body had tatts throughout history is BS. NO ONE EVER TATTOOED IN THIS MANNER -NO ONE EVER HAD THESE IDEAS AND PATTERNS ---ITS AN ART THAT WAS STARTED UNDER THE MOST RESTRICTED AND EVIL ENVIROMENTS AND WE JSUT LAID DOWN AND LET PEOPLE TAKE THAT SHIT-

I guess we deserve people stealing our shit if going let them .

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 6th, 2010, 11:54 pm

[youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIwi0Yr4l5w][/youtube]

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by 19DAGO04 » October 7th, 2010, 2:00 am

mayugastank wrote:
19DAGO04 wrote:
mayugastank wrote:Heres a few theres quite big files I aint been able to upload-Toonerville and LA MESA are some historic latino gangs in SD county and NE Los Angelos

What? There has never been a La Mesa gang in Dago. There is a city called La Mesa..full of upper and middle class people. Predominatly white, and it never had any Latino gangs. And we all know that TVR if from LA..i don't think they ride in the -NELA- car though....

I meant OTAY.....I guess SAN DIEGO has got some history as this gang is considered to be 80+ years old and still extremely strong. I have some photos with OGs from their and their ink going back to the 60s. Didnt know SD had a reputable history always viewed that side of California as a knock off of Los Angelos-till here recently.

I don't believe you about those photos of OTAYEROS with tattoos in the 1960s. I'll call you out on that one cause now you're starting to wander on my side of the hood. I got familia that goes back to OTAY since the 1930's. I would tell you to post them up because I can guarantee that I know who the OGs are, but that wouldn't be wise. I know that the OGs from OX3 would not like the fact that some dude is posting photos of them up on a web. Otay is an old school hood. They are tight lipped and quiet. The only way you got those photos are if you got family from Otay-or you got them from a police source, or a well known website. And the OG's posing on the website with the youngsters go back no farther than the 1970's. Almost all of the hardcore Otayeros from 1960's are dead or still locked up. And by hardcore, I mean the ones inked up.

The only way you can confuse La Mesa with Otay is if you got flicks of the Otay Locos gang from La Mesa in Tijuas. That gang has no relation to the Otay gang that's in Chula Vista, CA-and the Tijuas gang is new compared to the generations old gang from San Diego. Dago has a few gangs that have history that goes back to the 1930's and 1940's (OTNC-Posole-Sidro-Otay-ESD-Logan)-and these gangs have always handled their business completely independent of LA. Everyone that has lived in both cities can tell you Dago certainly has it's own flavor. Almost all black gangs here that claim Blood and Crip were born from the true first generation Blood and Crips from LA, but they had roots as homegrown gangs before they took on the B/C attitude.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 2:38 am

I give a fux if you believe me but send your email....its from the old school video of JOHNNY CASH -the photos are stills and they list the chicanos as gang members from OTAY. The video is from 1969-so figure that ~cholo. But type it in and youll see the stills for yourself.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Cold Bear » October 7th, 2010, 9:45 am

It's amazing that somebody spouting like he is so knowledgeable, is mostly ignorant. You a hard headed dude and still don't see it. We see your points but you make vast simplifications and overall give Chicanos too much credit. You using the word 'swag' to talk about Blacks stealing Mexican style is one little kernel of hilarity that is a perfect example of your world view. You talk about Puerto Ricans but you have zero clue what Nuyorican culture is. You have zero idea the depth of artistic, religious, cultural, and musical heritage Puerto Rican people have out here and how it mixed with Black culture in a POSITIVE WAY.

The fact that Puerto RIco is so Americanized dilutes the native culture so of course it's even more so in NY, but at the same time half of the Chicanos in LA are so whitewashed and lightskinned and diluted in spirit and culture it's sad. To see Chicanos hang on to fonts and tattoos as their identity. LOL. The trappings of their life in the US and living under a White system and the symbols of crime and oppression being the only identity they can hang their cholo hat on. A cholo hat they didn't design but have worn for so many generations without adapting that they believe it's theirs. Shit old Blacks wear brims and bowlers and fedoras, young dudes wear fitteds, Black folks adapt. Mexicans do the same ass shit they been doing for generations and because they don't add anything to MODERN culture they start to lay claim to the old shit that everybody was doing at one point. Still listening to oldies and 80's funk lol.

MIdget Loco bobbing his head and tag lined as a "Hip Hop Artist". Look at him aspiring to go through the gates Blacks opened up in popular culture! Too bad nobody will buy his album cause nobody checks for that shit, to be honest. Look at a real head from my boy's block in the BX, KAIS.... if you speak to this dude in person like I have and look at his flicks of him with his breaking crew back in the 70's, or look at his book containing all the pieces he's done in the streets over decades, or even listen to his Hip-Hop or Reggaeton tracks, you see the culture that I'm talking about:
You see the real history and the real art and streets that made Hip-Hop and that made graffiti worldwide.
Then compare it to Midget Loco and you get a watered down sense of what he is trying to emulate. Stick to gangbanging and getting tats holmes!

I was just out in the Mexican neighborhood off Myrtle Wyckoff / Dekalb stops on the L last weekend. Goddamn there are a lot of Mexicans now. They all are adopting the gear and the street style of New Yorkers, man. They not bringing their own shit except selling aguas frescas out their yard and tacos off the street. When you walk past the Mexican blocks to the Puerto Rican blocks you see the real culture of the street. The real talk, the real slang, the real local graff cats putting it down (sorry fam "putting it down" is another NYC Hip-Hop based term) on the side of markets to keep tagging off the walls.

That's not even to start off with Dominicans because they are much newer to the States and retain a lot of their home culture. There are Hip-Hop Dominicans too but yeah the dance, music, culture, style of DR is present in NYC pretty strong.

Anyway shit is real out here man you keep harping but it's gonna have to be balanced because true Chicanos aren't credited with a lot of their shit but damn if you gonna discredit other people!

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