Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 14th, 2010, 10:47 pm

SILENCIOSO~

Thanks for verbably sparing with me I appreciate it and I take enjoyment in intellectually obliterating you. It keeps me occupied at work while I wait for the occassional straggler to walk in! I never said that LA is the birthplace of gangs-however I have said that LA is the birthplace of modern gangs and MOST of gang artistry-tattoing and dress. You point to a NY gang as being "culture" yet according to the above article -the development of gangs in NYC amongst blacks and PRs didnt happen till the 50s and 60s. That would be some 40 years respectively AFTER (to name one as an example) 38th street. Yet despite you throwing the word culture around like it means nothing I have clearly and as others have as well defined precisely what culture means. 3 things you have to hold to be considered a culture is LANGUAGE _BORDERS_CUSTOMS. Their is clearly a chicano culture seperate from the Mexican one. That culture is intertwined -with street gang culture. The slang-and customs of tattoing,clothing.graffitti,gang structure. It is completely unique to chicanos as a people. The borders of that culture are the complete Southwest of America. Only the italians have a gang structure infused with culture in America. Their organizations began to develop according to the article above around 1920 or so. 38th street traces its roots to at least the 1920s. You named a few black gangs in NYC who were heavy during the 1970s-yet by the 1980s they were completely died out?! How heavy were THEY intertwined with black culture? Their is not a gang in ELA(mostly) who started before the 1950s. Their gangs fade like dust yet you erroneously labeled their 10 year span a CULTURE? Their have been a thousand kids who started a gang on a block and let it die out a week,month or year later. Only in this area do gangs and black culture intertwine completely. And that is only because they got those ideas from chicanos. Nowhere else in America do black gang members dress in the fashion they do here. But as you stated previously -NYC and CHI had more blacks and gangs their then LA? so why is that only here do blacks dress in the fashion they do? And wait um, who else dresses that way? YES SIR chicanos! Blacks wouldnt even have a culture of modern tattoing if they werent placing spin on the themes chicanos in ELA developed! If we were gonna sidetrack and get into who started gang culture-we shouldve taken it BACK to the last thread where I smashed on THE REAL, PERONGREGORY,SILENCIOSO and all others who dared challenge me on the truth. By simply posting an article showing 38th street going back to the 1920s -I was able to obliterate the arguments that zootsuit culture is the begining of chicano gang culture-SINCE zootsuit didnt take off till the late 40s-early 50s. I showed that we had gangs going into their 3rd genereation before zootsuits. I will get back with more but the Irish and other white gangs (besides italians) hold as much culture to whites as do black gangs for blacks. Something cool to do today. which is why we own the fashion of the streets and the culture intertwined with tattoing and styles of dress. Because exactly like the italians its become infused in our peoples history

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 14th, 2010, 10:58 pm

SILENCIOSO~

Thanks for verbably sparing with me I appreciate it and I take enjoyment in intellectually obliterating you. It keeps me occupied at work while I wait for the occassional straggler to walk in! I never said that LA is the birthplace of gangs-however I have said that LA is the birthplace of modern gangs and MOST of gang artistry-tattoing and dress. You point to a NY gang as being "culture" yet according to the above article -the development of gangs in NYC amongst blacks and PRs didnt happen till the 50s and 60s. That would be some 40 years respectively AFTER (to name one as an example) 38th street. Yet despite you throwing the word culture around like it means nothing I have clearly and as others have as well defined precisely what culture means. 3 things you have to hold to be considered a culture is LANGUAGE _BORDERS_CUSTOMS. Their is clearly a chicano culture seperate from the Mexican one. That culture is intertwined -with street gang culture. The slang-and customs of tattoing,clothing.graffitti,gang structure. It is completely unique to chicanos as a people. The borders of that culture are the complete Southwest of America. Only the italians have a gang structure infused with culture in America. Their organizations began to develop according to the article above around 1920 or so. 38th street traces its roots to at least the 1920s. You named a few black gangs in NYC who were heavy during the 1970s-yet by the 1980s they were completely died out?! How heavy were THEY intertwined with black culture? Their is not a gang in ELA(mostly) who started before the 1950s. Their gangs fade like dust yet you erroneously labeled their 10 year span a CULTURE? Their have been a thousand kids who started a gang on a block and let it die out a week,month or year later. Only in this area do gangs and black culture intertwine completely. And that is only because they got those ideas from chicanos. Nowhere else in America do black gang members dress in the fashion they do here. But as you stated previously -NYC and CHI had more blacks and gangs their then LA? so why is that only here do blacks dress in the fashion they do? And wait um, who else dresses that way? YES SIR chicanos! Blacks wouldnt even have a culture of modern tattoing if they werent placing spin on the themes chicanos in ELA developed! If we were gonna sidetrack and get into who started gang culture-we shouldve taken it BACK to the last thread where I smashed on THE REAL, PERONGREGORY,SILENCIOSO and all others who dared challenge me on the truth. By simply posting an article showing 38th street going back to the 1920s -I was able to obliterate the arguments that zootsuit culture is the begining of chicano gang culture-SINCE zootsuit didnt take off till the late 40s-early 50s. I showed that we had gangs going into their 3rd genereation before zootsuits. I will get back with more but the Irish and other white gangs (besides italians) hold as much culture to whites as do black gangs for blacks. Something cool to do today. which is why we own the fashion of the streets and the culture intertwined with tattoing and styles of dress. Because exactly like the italians its become infused in our peoples history

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » May 14th, 2010, 11:19 pm

You didn't smash anything sir because my arguement with the zoot suits wasn't that Chicano clubs/gangs formed with the zoot suit era, but that the percursor to the cholo or the modern chicano gangster started with the pachuco, who got some senses of his style from the black. Kids and teens running around in ELA fighting Irish, Russians, Jews etc. Is not the locd out, bald headed, sub machine gun toting, calo speaking, mi vida loca modern chicano gangster. Keeps it real brody.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 15th, 2010, 2:11 pm

In fact many gangs acted as "farm clubs" for the major mobs and syndicates of the day. Street gangs of this period generally favored neighborhood oriented names like Frog Hallow Gang, Green Point Boys and Kelly Street Savages. New York gangs of the 20s and 30s were overwhelmingly white, usually of immigrant stock. Irish, Italians, Poles and Jews were the main ethnic groups involved in gangs.



NEW YORK GANGS OF THE 20S AND 30S WERE OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE,USUALLY OF IMMIGRANT STOCK-IRISH,ITALIANS,POLES AND JEWS.


By the 1920s their were NON WHITE gangs in the city of LA -specifically ELA. These gangs were large enough at the time to get rounded up in raids on ELA. 600 youths belonging to mexican gangs were raided at the time of the sleepy lagoon trial. These gangs were the same gangs on the same streets that are still here NOW! Only the italians of NYC hold anything as long in history as the gangs of ELA-their is not a gang on this continent that is older then to name a half a dozen mexican gangs: FROGTOWN-WHITE FENCE -38TH ST-EL JARDIN-CANTA RANAS-MARAVILLAS(MOST)-.................A HALF A DOZEN! I didnt get into a structured history -thats just off top! The reason we control the style of dress of the West Coast gangs and their artistry is because we have in most cases 40 years and longer on most -ASIAN-SAMOAN-ARMENIAN-BLACK and anyone elses gangs. Why couldnt the armenians and cambodians and samoans develop something that held some type of hold to their own cultures? I mean for gods sake they call themselves ASIAN BOY CRIP....hahahaha!! They love our sauce -the white ts and simply classic look-not a million colored outfits! A fresh shirt and pressed pants -short hair and tatted down -WE OWN THAT STYLE. They hate their own cultures so much that they abandoned everything in it -except for calling themselves after their homeland.!!Think about Armenian Power-completely top down the only Armenian Gang in America(notable) -a culture that is thought to be ONE OF THE OLDEST IN THE WORLD-they have WAY WAY more history then chicanos and even aztec culture -yet they came to the USA and dropped all of it to follow our stilo!!The dress and tattoing and shaved heads and style of my people-they dont represent their own because they hate themselves! Just like the goofy japs and cambodians whocall themselves bloods and dress mexican

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Cold Bear » May 17th, 2010, 11:52 am

Silencioso wrote:So Florida and Texas and NYC and Georgia all have higher amounts of blacks? Whats the name of their major gangs there? CRIPS AND BLOODS. Their are more Blacks in South Florida then in LA..........................and no major black gangs outside of West Coast ones there......gimme a break~ cant you see WHY??????????? only in direct contact with ELAs chicano community did they form those ideas of gangs as culture!! Texas that historic chicano state is home to a wannabee LA culture! For both blacks and mexicans! Dont discount LA as being second to Texas because their have been mexicans here as long as in Texas and possible longer. Baja is a skip away -its unbelievable to think that their wouldnt be!

The biggest black gang in the South is Gangster Disciples/Folks. GD's and Vice Lords were popping up in the South before Crips and Bloods. The spread of C's and B's in the Northeast and South was aided by the popularity of West Coast Gangsta rap/G-Funk and the media obsession with L.A. black gangs in the early 90's. I think that's pretty common knowledge.

Also, where are you getting this idea that the Northeast and the Midwest never had black gangs of note before the recent L.A. influence. The classic NY "West Side Story" era gangs weren't just PR and Whites they were Black, too. They had huge black gangs in NY in the 50's, early 60's like the Sportsmen (Harlem), Chaplains (Bklyn, Queens), Imperial Lords (Bklyn). The Chaplains and Lords were structured like the Crips and ViceLords, with different Chaplains and Lords neighborhoods having a different play on the main gang name - Mau Mau Chaplains, Ft. Greens Chaplains, Comanchero Chaplains, Homicide Lords etc. This is a common feature of black gangs to share a common "family name". It's not very common in Mexican, Puerto Ricans and Whites, unless they've been influenced by Blacks, like in Chicago.

In the '70's there were big black gangs in NY again - Black Spades, Tomahawks, Peacemakers, Jolly Stompers (Mike Tyson's old gang). This gang culture was cut short by the popularity of hip hop culture which replaced large organized gangs with smaller, looser "crews/posses". This is why the Bloods were allowed to start up in NY and get so big. There only competition was small time hiphop and block "crews"/ "posses" like the Franklin Ave. Posse, Lo-Lifes and Decepticons. Do you think they would gotten so big if there were still Black Spades, Peacemakers and Bklyn Tomahawks around?
Good post

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » May 17th, 2010, 1:36 pm

mayugastank wrote:In fact many gangs acted as "farm clubs" for the major mobs and syndicates of the day. Street gangs of this period generally favored neighborhood oriented names like Frog Hallow Gang, Green Point Boys and Kelly Street Savages. New York gangs of the 20s and 30s were overwhelmingly white, usually of immigrant stock. Irish, Italians, Poles and Jews were the main ethnic groups involved in gangs.



NEW YORK GANGS OF THE 20S AND 30S WERE OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE,USUALLY OF IMMIGRANT STOCK-IRISH,ITALIANS,POLES AND JEWS.


By the 1920s their were NON WHITE gangs in the city of LA -specifically ELA. These gangs were large enough at the time to get rounded up in raids on ELA. 600 youths belonging to mexican gangs were raided at the time of the sleepy lagoon trial. These gangs were the same gangs on the same streets that are still here NOW! Only the italians of NYC hold anything as long in history as the gangs of ELA-their is not a gang on this continent that is older then to name a half a dozen mexican gangs: FROGTOWN-WHITE FENCE -38TH ST-EL JARDIN-CANTA RANAS-MARAVILLAS(MOST)-.................A HALF A DOZEN! I didnt get into a structured history -thats just off top! The reason we control the style of dress of the West Coast gangs and their artistry is because we have in most cases 40 years and longer on most -ASIAN-SAMOAN-ARMENIAN-BLACK and anyone elses gangs. Why couldnt the armenians and cambodians and samoans develop something that held some type of hold to their own cultures? I mean for gods sake they call themselves ASIAN BOY CRIP....hahahaha!! They love our sauce -the white ts and simply classic look-not a million colored outfits! A fresh shirt and pressed pants -short hair and tatted down -WE OWN THAT STYLE. They hate their own cultures so much that they abandoned everything in it -except for calling themselves after their homeland.!!Think about Armenian Power-completely top down the only Armenian Gang in America(notable) -a culture that is thought to be ONE OF THE OLDEST IN THE WORLD-they have WAY WAY more history then chicanos and even aztec culture -yet they came to the USA and dropped all of it to follow our stilo!!The dress and tattoing and shaved heads and style of my people-they dont represent their own because they hate themselves! Just like the goofy japs and cambodians whocall themselves bloods and dress
mexican
There have been black gangs in the Northeast and Chicago since the late 1800-early 1900's. They were over shadowed by the white gangs but they still existed. Articles on Chicago gangs in the early 1900's mention "Negro gangs".

As far as new comers adopting the L.A. gang style. What do you expect? Most of these ethnic groups started their gangs IN L.A. at least partially in reaction to established Chicano, Black and maybe even skinhead gangs(in OC). Do you expect them to reinvent the wheel? Of course they're going to dress in the local style. Do you expect these Asian gangs to dress like the Viet Cong? The Samoans to wear hulas? The Armenians to dress like Cossacks?

Note: I recall that when viet gangs first started poppin up, they had their own look called "new wave" which was kind of a trendy dance club style. The Wah Chings (who came from SF) didn't have much of a look, they dressed like other Chinese youth. The Pinoy gangs like Satanas and BNG dressed somewhat cholo but also wore a lot of trendy crap like Guess and often had trendy hairstyles. So I guess the Asians at least tried to have their own styles for a while.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 17th, 2010, 11:24 pm

Um candy ass reply ! Of course their were black gangs of one or two or a couple cousins calling themselves the HARDY BOYZ. They existed in Mexico City. The panchillos and LOS MUERTOS. They were gangs of the Districto Federal in the 1900s.BUt they had nothing similiar to what gang culture in America was and is. The classic look thats lasted 90 years is chicano not black or white. The style of tattooing in this country is overwhelmingly chicano! I dont have to reiterate it simply click on a youtube video of the ASIAN BOYZ or SOS or Armenian Power. You make it sound like hey they "mentioned immigrants" just wore what everyone else wore! BS! That style belongs to chicanos-they didnt get tatted like that in their home countries. NOT A SINGLE ONE of the black gangs you mentioned lasted as long as even the rookie crips and bloods whom we outlive by a half a century or more! Just today I saw the patterns of my people tatted on blacks-arabs and asians, and whites! From the start of the first paterned tattoo work -chicano themes in America have been dominant. The yukuza-didnt begin to tattoo till after the WW2 -dont believe the hype! Outside of the ancient squirrly lines of ethnic war tribes tattooing was rare! The style chicanos ( note CHICANOS!) made popular is almsot completely the style tattoed throughout the WORLD now! I said the WORLD . Not the USA. Their were documentarys of Irish Gangs and they had the style -of smile now cry later-the charra-the caligraphic chain on neck -things only chicanos EVER got under 15 years ago. The style we popularized is worldwide now -yet we dont get a mention? how does that not bother you? Theirs a new tattoo magazine called urban ink
http://www.urbanink.com/view-article.php?aid=2


The site is completely infused with chicano themes tattoed on blacks-whites-asians and whites! When we say American Tattoo culture keep in mind that as far as the modern style tattoo-outside of the squirrly lines-America holds the most history for breakthroughs in the tattoo culture,worldwide. THERE IS NO AMERICAN TATTOO CULTURE OUTSIDE OF CHICANO STYLE TATTOOS. Whites got their stilos and patterns straight outta the Southwest chicano handbook

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 18th, 2010, 12:03 am

One more thing you mentioned -previously the Russian Criminal and Japenese Yukuza as having a tattoo culture. That came way way way later and after the chicano style tattoos seen worldwide. The Yukuza for all the hype on history hold a tradition of tattooing under 50 years old. Their whole outfit is post World War 2 . Their are nothing similiar and hold no similarities at all to the ancient japense bandits of the 18th century. Those guys werent getting blasted upside the head and body. Oh but we were! Now the Russian criminal and his tattoos are even newer with most ink and symbolizing arriving after the fall of communism. Their patterns really took off after the west and east started having contact.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 18th, 2010, 12:07 am

I CHALLENGE ANYONE ON THIS THREAD TO PROVIDE A LINK DETAILING AN AMERICAN GANG WITH A LONGER HISTORY THEN 38th STREET. ANY GANG ANYWHERE IN THE STATES. LOOK AS I HAVE THEIR IS NO GANG IN AMERICA OLDER THEN THIS ONE> PLEASE DONT TELL ME ABOUT EXTINCT GANGS-OR GANGS THAT USED TO BE AROUND !

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 18th, 2010, 12:09 am

mayugastank wrote:I CHALLENGE ANYONE ON THIS THREAD TO PROVIDE A LINK DETAILING AN AMERICAN GANG WITH A LONGER HISTORY THEN 38th STREET. ANY GANG ANYWHERE IN THE STATES. LOOK AS I HAVE THEIR IS NO GANG IN AMERICA OLDER THEN THIS ONE> PLEASE DONT TELL ME ABOUT EXTINCT GANGS-OR GANGS THAT USED TO BE AROUND !

The 38th Street Gang can be traced back to the 1920's making it the oldest gang in South Central, however, the gang may-be older because in the 1920's the gang was already well established in the area. Los Angeles[1]. In 2004 the gang was estimated to contain around 350 active members in the South Central area alone. During the 1940s, the 38th Street Gang gained national attention for their involvement in the Sleepy Lagoon murder and trial, in which Jose Diaz was killed and 22 of 24 suspects of the 38th Street Gang were indicted; of those 22, 17 were convicted.[2] On October 4, 1943, the convictions of the gang members were overturned and the gang members were allegedly welcomed back to their communities as heroes. [3][2] Shortly after "Sleepy Lagoon", the newspapers were said to have exaggerated the headlines about the gang that wore zoot suits and created war-time hysteria and prejudice against the Mexican-American Zoot Suiters. Many Mexican-Americans from the segregated parts of town were attacked by sailors and members of other branches of the U.S. Military. The military personnel felt Zoot Suiters were not contributing to the war effort and were wasting valuable resources by dressing so flamboyantly.[3] This became known as the Zoot Suit Riots and culminated in a massive riot involving hundreds of zoot suiters against the military and some civilians. The day after the riots the city council adopted a resolution that banned the wearing of zoot suits on Los Angeles streets.[2] 1920 (MCMXX) was a leap year starting on Thursday. ... This article or section does not cite any references or sources. ... The birthday party for Eleanor Coronado, held at her parents rural Los Angeles County home, was winding to a close in the early hours of Sunday, August 2, 1942, as a large group of young people from 38th Street pulled up. ... October 4 is the 277th day of the year (278th in leap years) in the Gregorian calendar. ... Year 1943 (MCMXLIII) was a common year starting on Friday (the link will display full 1943 calendar) of the Gregorian calendar. ... A soldier inspecting zoot suits in Washington D.C. in 1942 Men in zoot suits A zoot suit was a style of clothing first popularized by young African Americans, Filipino Americans, Italian Americans, and Mexican Americans in the late 1930s and 1940s [1][2][3][4][5]. Today, a zoot... Zoot Suit riots, June 1943 The Zoot Suit Riots were a series of riots that erupted in Los Angeles, California during World War II, between sailors and soldiers stationed in the city and Mexican American youths, recognized because of the zoot suits they favored. ...

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » May 18th, 2010, 12:31 pm

I don't think anybody is arguing about who the oldest gangs are that are still active. It's known to be L.A. Chicano gangs like 38th and Dog Town. People are reacting to your statements about East LA Chicanos starting modern gang culture/dress style/tatoos etc. You make statements and don't support them. Why should we believe that outlaw bikers got their tattoo style from cholos? Why should we believe that Crips and Bloods got hand signs from cholos? Do you have any proof or support for these claims beyond making racist statements about blacks and whites being to lame to come up with their own styles?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » May 18th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Something you mention a lot in your posts is the fact that "newcomer" minortities in L.A. adopt the cholo style or the Crip/Blood style. Whether you like it or not the Mexican kids in Downtown L.A. back in the early 1900's did the same thing. They adopted the local white ethnic street gang style of that era. Cholo culture is full of "trace elements" of the old white ethnic gang culture. Nick names like Shorty, Smokey, PeeWee. Names right out of an old 1930's gangster movie. Pachucos in the 30's and 40's dressed black (zoot suits) when they were partying and trying to look sharp and dressed working class white (white t-shirts, khakis, sweatshirts) when they were hanging out in the hood or rumbling.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 18th, 2010, 5:06 pm

Silencioso wrote:I don't think anybody is arguing about who the oldest gangs are that are still active. It's known to be L.A. Chicano gangs like 38th and Dog Town. People are reacting to your statements about East LA Chicanos starting modern gang culture/dress style/tatoos etc. You make statements and don't support them. Why should we believe that outlaw bikers got their tattoo style from cholos? Why should we believe that Crips and Bloods got hand signs from cholos? Do you have any proof or support for these claims beyond making racist statements about blacks and whites being to lame to come up with their own styles?


My arguments are not entirely hyperbole. Just like a detective you have to piece history together to come up with a full picture. Their have been gangs before chicano gangs no doubt -but none tattoed in the chicano fashion and no one else worldwide did either-whatever fashion gangs have now is exclusively chicano-the artwork of ELA is predominant in American tattooing. The lettering we made popular -the placements -the stylization and the majority of well known tattoo artists in the southwest are CHICANO. This months cover of SKIN -has chicano style tattoo on the cover and just about every page has SOMETHING or other that ELA made popular or started. The link I provided is top down filled with plays on my peoples heritage. You posted a picture of a hells angel blasted on the blades-that is a chicano tattoo. Outside of the Southwest WHITES werent tattooed in that fashion -nor were outlaw bikers prevelant in other states outside Califas. You point to the outlaws as being the first 1% club -but thats a crock! The hells angels of SOCAL were the first club to develop the term 1% and call themselves an outlaw motorcyle club. They took the tattoed styled white biker nationwide.Demographics should tell you that the east coast had the first white conclaves -and that out of 49 continental states and hundreds of citys and millions of people all these ideas developed amongst -whites-asians-blacks and latinos in Los Angelos??? How so? The first asian american gangs didnt take plays on THEIR culture-they took plays on MY culture -to develop their ideas. Black artists and whites alike took our fashion trends and placed their own spin on it -but a simple non-prejudicial look shows you how much influence is chicano.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by jdm894g » May 23rd, 2010, 10:44 pm

Mayuga, Im tired of all your rhetoric.

Tewll me when and where did some from 38th Street or White Fence go to NY, Chicago, ATL or anywhere else and popularize ELA/SCLA gangster lifestyle? When were they on the news or any media back in the 30s to even have an impact of the Bronx, New Orleans, Chi-Town or even parts of LA. Do you really think a brotha from south central ever heard of 38th street, Avenues, frog town or any gang north of the 10 freeway or dodger stadium????? I don't even think they influenced other chicano gangs in LA. Each has their own style based on their geographical local, nuances and influences.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 24th, 2010, 12:08 pm

jdm894g wrote:Mayuga, Im tired of all your rhetoric.

Tewll me when and where did some from 38th Street or White Fence go to NY, Chicago, ATL or anywhere else and popularize ELA/SCLA gangster lifestyle? When were they on the news or any media back in the 30s to even have an impact of the Bronx, New Orleans, Chi-Town or even parts of LA. Do you really think a brotha from south central ever heard of 38th street, Avenues, frog town or any gang north of the 10 freeway or dodger stadium????? I don't even think they influenced other chicano gangs in LA. Each has their own style based on their geographical local, nuances and influences.

NO your right no vatos from -from 38th or white fence EVER probably went to the East Coast -but guaranteed -blacks from LA have travelled and set up crips and bloods sets in the south-east coast and anywere they can. The style of these blacks is copied by all other blacks. Who got their styles from ESEs!! SOS-TRG-Armenian Power-Blood and Crips-almost all of them wore dickies-white Ts-did gang graffitti-wrote like chicanos-and started getting the styles of tattoos like the vatos from ELA. They didnt take samoan culture or armenian culture or cambodian culture or black culture and put spin on it! They took the majority of their gang styles and lifestyles from MY GODDAM CULTURE! We outlast and outlive EVERY black gang in America-The oldest black gangs in America claim a history of the 1920s or later ALL THRU THE USA! Yet NOT A ONE OF THEM IS STILL AROUND! I aint pointing out defunct chicano gangs in ELA-Black Diamonds-Sombra lococs-SANA RIFAS-These gangs started in the 1900s.To give me some type of evidence I took fairly new ELA gangs and focused on them and still EVEN you guys and all other races in the states couldnt point to a gang that was older then them! Its far beyond gangs -its about the style of americas underground-its roots and where a vast majority of those styles of dress-graffiti and gang writing-artistry CAME FROM ! The VAST SPHERE OF TATTOO PATTERNS are chicano based -the only other race with such an impact on tattooing worldwide would be the -Oceanic peoples of Japan-Hawaii-Mauris and other islanders. NOW. 15 years ago top down the style of tattooing worldwide was ELA impact top down! You dont have to know the names of the gangs to copy them! The style of South Central brother gangsters is a fucked up copy of MY peoples style! Outside of LA where do black get down like LA blacks? NOW nationwide coast to coast blacks have taken crip and bloods sets and tattooing and styles of art and got those ideas from transplant blacks-The biggest ASIAN GANGS NATIONWIDE are gangs from Long BEach WHO GOT THEIR STYLES BY WATCHING LONG BEACH EAST SIDE LONGOS. A CHICANO GANG who took their style from the vatos from ELA!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 24th, 2010, 12:19 pm

GET THIS STRAIGHT. Their isnt a chicano gang in all CALI who didnt get their styles from ELA. The styles of dress and even the formation of the gangs of ELA and our artistry are completely the style of chicano gangs NATIONWIDE. Blacks in LA -gang bangers -completely 100% copied the styles of dress and formation and tatooing from any chicanos in their vicinty. Yet all chicano gangs throughout the state trace their roots HERE somehow! To make an example -take 18th street-who were a click off CLANTON 14-who were a click off WHITE FENCE before they broke off! Now 18th street clicks have sprung up in El Salvador and from East Coast to West Coast-but originally they were a click off an ELA gang-a gang with thorough and long lasting history not no NEW BOOTY -Crip set or Some 1960 Chicago set

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » May 24th, 2010, 12:45 pm

LOL all chicano gangs in Cali trace their ancestery to ELA...Yeah Ok. Anyway, past your ethnocentric lies lets get to this tattoo shit.

18th century White criminal tattoos
Image

Image
hmmm...looks like the backshot you might see on a cholo

Image
hmmm. doesn't Danny Trejo -ex-chicano gangster now actor basically have that same tatoo on his stomach but this is way before his time?

Image
18th century drawing of a tatted Englishman, fullbody,sleeves everything mayugaa said whites got from them...lol

Image
Early English criminal olde english font. oh but CHicanos made this shit up though, lol.

Image
Another fullbody, circa 1920's

Did Mayuga say the Yakuza only started tatooing in the middle of the 19th century after influence from America, therefore ELA Chicanos...LOLLOLOLOLOLOL!

Read this:

18th Century
" Pictorial tattooing flourished during the eighteenth century in connection with the popular culture of Edo, as Tokyo was then called. Early in the 18th century, publishers needed illustrations for novels, theatres needed advertisements for their plays and the Japanese wood block print was developed to meet these needs. The development of the wood block print parallels, and had great influence on, the development of the art of tattooing. Because of the association between tattooing and criminal activity, tattooing was outlawed on the grounds that it was "deleterious to public morals."

Tattooing continued to flourish among firemen, laborers and others considered to be at the lower end of the social scale. Tattoos were favored by gangs called Yakuza, outlaws, penniless peasants, laborers and misfits who migrated to Edo in the hope of improving their lives.

The Yakuza felt that because tattooing was painful, it was a proof of courage; because it was permanent, it was evidence of lifelong loyalty to the group; and because it was illegal, it made them outlaws forever.

Around the middle of the 18th century, the popularity of tattooing was stimulated by a popular Chinese novel, Suikoden, with many of its novel's heroes extensively tattooed. The Japanese version of Suikoden was illustrated by a variety of artists, each of whom created prints with new interpretations of the tattoos described in the novel."

This novel and the new illustrations influenced all Japanese arts and culture.
Source:http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_m ... ttoos.html

Also...

"At the beginning of the Meiji period (1868-1912 A.D.) the Japanese government, wanting to protect its image and make a good impression on the west, outlawed tattoos, and irezumi took on connotations of criminality. Nevertheless, fascinated foreigners went to Japan seeking the skills of tattoo artists, and traditional tattooing continued underground.

Tattooing was legalized by the occupation forces in 1945, but has retained its image of criminality. For many years, traditional Japanese tattoos were associated with the Yakuza and many businesses in Japan (such as public baths, fitness centers and hot springs) still ban customers with tattoos."
source:http://www.getinked.co.uk/criminal-tattoo-history.html


pics of Yakuza in the 18th century
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Image

Image

Image


Did Mayuga say the same about the Russian mobsters as well...Well lets read this short para. shall we:

It is unknown how or when this complex visual language began; images as early as the 1920s show an intricate and developed system of tattooing. Many of the images are religious in basis, but not in meaning. (source:http://hubpages.com/hub/Russian-Prison-Tattoos)

Hmm... the 1920's we know for damn sure no lil kids and teens running around in overalls in EastLA exported criminal tattooing to Russia at that time.


We could do this in depth about cholos and non-cholos dressing east coast black (hip hop), and more and refute errythang you saying. As everyone said Chicanos acculturated things from other groups and put their twist on it, it's America we all have. I can't believe this fool said Chicano tattooing has inflenced all tattoing in America and all criminal tattooing in the world. LOL! You don't got to lie to kick it.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 24th, 2010, 4:32 pm

POST YOUR SOURCE SIR!



I wont fall for your slight of hand! The first photograph EVER was taken in 1836 -yet your photgraphs are claiming a history of the early 1800s......... The yukuza you photgraph have color in those photos which didnt happen till the 1950s. The first colored tattoo ink wasnt discovered till 1953-yet these japenese pictures have color on them? POST YOUR SOURCE OR STAND DOWN.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 24th, 2010, 4:38 pm

These days it seems like everyone and their brother or sister is getting a tattoo. The whole world of tattooing has exploded for sure! There are now hit TV series featuring tattoo shops and more and more people are getting tattoos then ever before. One of the things that has fueled this exception growth is the ink used in tattooing. Ancient school tattoos and not that far back in our tattoo history all tattoos were done with black ink. Black ink tattoos were the only way to go as there were no other color choices. But, new inks were invented about 10 years ago and have spawned a huge growth in tattoo in since tattoos could now come in full color.But, not every application of a tattoo design should be done in color just because it can be. There are some designs that work much better as black ink tattoos. Are you not sure if you should be getting a color tattoo or a black ink tattoo? This article will help give you some thoughts of the most well loved black tattoo designs and ones that lend themselves to this medium.





COLORED INK DID NOT EXIST WHEN PERONGREGORY SAYS IT DOES. I WILL TAKE HIM APART PIECEMEAL -need a little time to do that though but am seriously looking forward to it.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » May 24th, 2010, 5:06 pm

mayugastank wrote:POST YOUR SOURCE SIR!



I wont fall for your slight of hand! The first photograph EVER was taken in 1836 -yet your photgraphs are claiming a history of the early 1800s......... The yukuza you photgraph have color in those photos which didnt happen till the 1950s. The first colored tattoo ink wasnt discovered till 1953-yet these japenese pictures have color on them? POST YOUR SOURCE OR STAND DOWN.
Dog what are you talking about, the sources are there, and if the 1st photo was taken in 1836 I'm still right foolio. Third you've never seen the olden time photos where they add color fooly? In fact not too long ago there surfaced a Russian color camera with color photos from the 18th century so my shit is fullproof now what u got to say?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Coup » May 24th, 2010, 5:44 pm

What up Mayuga....that Yakuza info is the same I placed in the other section...I don't know how to do the photos though....look up criminal tattoos or yakuza and you will see that most cultures tatted their criminals. Yakuza took it and ran with it and turned it into a symbol for them beyond being a con....

Hmmmm....

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 25th, 2010, 3:02 am

Give me a second COUP and PERONGREGORY -I been busy. Perongregory SIR-post your source. Where did those pics come from -I need to investigate further cuz perongregory threw a curveball or had some time to do some serious searching because I been letting off on the boy for months now and the kid didnt post those pics till just now-NAME YOUR SOURCE SIR. I cant have you just throwing out pictures without giving me verifiable dates on them -I am a little confused at the second so I would like a minute to obliterate you. I came in here to argue and youve done quite a job at that. We may get along on other threads but I seriously consider you an enemy on these subjects and would like to silence you once and for all. We need parameters on these subjects. I am claiming several things on here. Your refuting some and conceding others. My list is as follows:

1. Chicano gangs in ELA are the oldest modern gangs in America.
2. All gangs today took huge swaths of the style of ELA.
3. Every chicano gang in Cali-somehow -some way evolved from a few varrios in ELA.
4. That black culture is home based in the south being that over half of all blacks live their and have always lived there.
5.That considering the above-it would seem illogical to claim that 1% of black culture(the population of blacks in LA) would hold such sway over the entire black culture.
6. That outside of italians,blacks,mexicans ALL OTHER immigrant groups in America dont own a street culture or hold a hyphenated american culture.Such as Cambodian American...or Armenian American.
7.That the style of Americas street is predominantly East Los Angelian.
8. That injecting other cultures outside of the predominant 3 street cultures into arguments is nonsense.
9.That the tattooing style of AMERICA is almost entirely either OCEANIC or ELAiasn in forms of style-lettering-placement and that style has top down become the most popular style of tattooing WORLDWIDE.
10.That it seems fishy that only in close contact with chicanos did African American and Puerto Ricans begin to develop street gangs as culture.
11. That the style of black gangs usually follows the style of latino gangs and not vice versa.(think of chicago gangs and their similarities to Latin KIngs and such)

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Cold Bear » May 25th, 2010, 7:03 am

SONNEDEDED

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » May 25th, 2010, 2:28 pm

mayugastank wrote:GET THIS STRAIGHT. Their isnt a chicano gang in all CALI who didnt get their styles from ELA. The styles of dress and even the formation of the gangs of ELA and our artistry are completely the style of chicano gangs NATIONWIDE. Blacks in LA -gang bangers -completely 100% copied the styles of dress and formation and tatooing from any chicanos in their vicinty. Yet all chicano gangs throughout the state trace their roots HERE somehow! To make an example -take 18th street-who were a click off CLANTON 14-who were a click off WHITE FENCE before they broke off! Now 18th street clicks have sprung up in El Salvador and from East Coast to West Coast-but originally they were a click off an ELA gang-a gang with thorough and long lasting history not no NEW BOOTY -Crip set or Some 1960 Chicago set
The only thing LA Black gangs borrowed from Chicano gangs is the graffiti style (which they modified) and certain aspects of dress like pendletons/flannel shirts, charly brown shirts and white t-shirts. The gang names,gang structure, alliance structure is all their own. The pre-Crip black gangs like the Slausons and Gladiators had even less connection to ELA Chicanos.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 27th, 2010, 2:46 am

Silencioso wrote:
mayugastank wrote:GET THIS STRAIGHT. Their isnt a chicano gang in all CALI who didnt get their styles from ELA. The styles of dress and even the formation of the gangs of ELA and our artistry are completely the style of chicano gangs NATIONWIDE. Blacks in LA -gang bangers -completely 100% copied the styles of dress and formation and tatooing from any chicanos in their vicinty. Yet all chicano gangs throughout the state trace their roots HERE somehow! To make an example -take 18th street-who were a click off CLANTON 14-who were a click off WHITE FENCE before they broke off! Now 18th street clicks have sprung up in El Salvador and from East Coast to West Coast-but originally they were a click off an ELA gang-a gang with thorough and long lasting history not no NEW BOOTY -Crip set or Some 1960 Chicago set
The only thing LA Black gangs borrowed from Chicano gangs is the graffiti style (which they modified) and certain aspects of dress like pendletons/flannel shirts, charly brown shirts and white t-shirts. The gang names,gang structure, alliance structure is all their own. The pre-Crip black gangs like the Slausons and Gladiators had even less connection to ELA Chicanos.
Really what about lowriders,area codes as gang identifiers, tattoos representing gang affiliation -the placement of the tattoos, the writing we popularized -caligraphy and old english-hwo about the blending of smile now cry later-the graffiti-most of LA black gang styles of dress, the teardrops, the across the abdominals shot-the pulled up socks-onand on and on............like I said there are more blacks and south florida then in LA -yet LA is a major black trend setting city-it doesnt take a detective to figure that out!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 27th, 2010, 3:02 am

City Percentage Black
1 Gary, Indiana 84.03
2 Detroit, Michigan 81.6
3 Miami Gardens, Florida 79.39
4 Birmingham, Alabama 73.46
5 New Orleans, Louisiana 67.25
6 Baltimore, Maryland 64.34
7 Macon, Georgia 62.50
8 Jackson, MS 61.65
9 Memphis, Tennessee 61.41
10 Richmond, Virginia 57.19
11 Savannah, Georgia 57.08
12 Atlanta, Georgia 55.8
13 Washington, D.C. 55.6
14 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 55.70
15 Newark, New Jersey 53.46
16 Flint, Michigan 53.27
17 St. Louis, Missouri 51.20
18 Cleveland, Ohio 50.99
19 Shreveport, Louisiana 50.80
20 Portsmouth, Virginia 50.61
21 Baton Rouge, Louisiana 50.02
22 Augusta, Georgia 49.75

Rank Metropolitan Area Percentage Black
1 Jackson metropolitan area (MS) 45.6
2 Memphis metropolitan area (TN-AR-MS) 43.5
3 New Orleans metropolitan area (LA) 37.5
4 Columbia metropolitan area (SC) 32.1
5 Baton Rouge metropolitan area (LA) 31.9
6 Atlanta metropolitan area (GA) 31.2
7 Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News metropolitan area (VA-NC) 30.9
8 Richmond-Petersburg metropolitan area (VA) 30.2
9 Birmingham metropolitan area (AL) 30.1
10 Jackson, Tennessee metropolitan area (TN) 29.2
11 Washington metropolitan area (DC-MD-VA-WV) 26.2
12 New York City metropolitan area PMSA (NY) 23.3
13 Detroit PMSA (MI) 23.1
14 Raleigh-Durham-Cary metropolitan area (NC) 22.7
15 Newark, New Jersey PMSA (NJ) 22.1
16 Jacksonville (FL) 21.7
17 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach PMSA (FL) 20.8
18 Charlotte (NC-SC) 20.5
19 Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point (NC) 20.2
20 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania PMSA (PA) 20.1

[edit] See also








OH LOS ANGELOS IS NOT EVEN ON THE LIST FOR BLACKS-BUT LOS ANGELOS is 1st for trendsetting amongst African AMericans nationwide and outside of NYC only LA holds as much sway for black America. That gangster style -that LA made famous isnt black-its chicano-they have 20 citys above to create ideas from yet they didnt and only here amongst my people who outlast them by 50 years is that underground style so prevelant and intertwined in their culture. The style of the peckerwoods and asians and all peoples took on the style of my people so much that everything we are here is labeled as belonging to everyone-let me make a play on cornrolls or gumbo or rap or sagging or c-walking or stuntin'......nah fools would be quick to claim THAT AS BLACK. Los Angelos is not a home to blacks insomuch as AUGUSTA GEORGIA is since the percentage of blacks their is 6x what the black percentage is here. Yet wheres that AUGUSTA influencing all Black America............homeboy it aint rhectoric its common sense. I am claiming from here on out that JAZZ and GUMBO are now a chicano thing! its only fair considering the amount of cultural nuances that blacks took from us

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by MMRbkaRudog » May 27th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Is this just going to keep dragging on? Obviously someone is hard headed.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Silencioso » May 27th, 2010, 3:43 pm

OH LOS ANGELOS IS NOT EVEN ON THE LIST FOR BLACKS-BUT LOS ANGELOS is 1st for trendsetting amongst African AMericans nationwide and outside of NYC only LA holds as much sway for black America. That gangster style -that LA made famous isnt black-its chicano-they have 20 citys above to create ideas from yet they didnt and only here amongst my people who outlast them by 50 years is that underground style so prevelant and intertwined in their culture. The style of the peckerwoods and asians and all peoples took on the style of my people so much that everything we are here is labeled as belonging to everyone-let me make a play on cornrolls or gumbo or rap or sagging or c-walking or stuntin'......nah fools would be quick to claim THAT AS BLACK. Los Angelos is not a home to blacks insomuch as AUGUSTA GEORGIA is since the percentage of blacks their is 6x what the black percentage is here. Yet wheres that AUGUSTA influencing all Black America............homeboy it aint rhectoric its common sense. I am claiming from here on out that JAZZ and GUMBO are now a chicano thing! its only fair considering the amount of cultural nuances that blacks took from us

The cultural center for black people in America has changed through the years. Chicago was important in the formation of electric blues and RnB, NY had doo wop, Detroit had Motown, Philly was a big center for funk. Those were all huge, influential movements/styles in their day. Yeah, L.A. is the birth place of gangsta rap/G-funk and the gangsta styles that revolve around that scene. But the original hip hop culture was from NY. and as big a dent as gangsta rap made in the 90's, the impact classic hip hop culture made in the 80's was bigger. It changed everything. The whole concept of "crews" - party crews, tagging crews etc. - came from NY hip hop. That's one of the biggest changes in L.A. gang history. Before hip hop you had big gangs and minor gangs, no crews. The "crew" concept created a whole new category of street group that was later absorbed into the established varrio gang culture. That's easily as big as the influence cholos had on L.A. black gangs.

The topography of L.A. has been changed dramatically by the arrival of NY hip hop style tagging. You go into East Los today and you see more hip hop tags than gang placas. Same with Downtown L.A. and every other part of town. Is the influence L.A. Chicanos had on L.A. blacks really bigger than that? You have countless established chicano gangs that are based on hip hop culture like The Mob Crew, KAMS, ATC, OFA and others.

The real strength in the varrio/cholo gang culture is it's resilience, it's die hard attitude and it's ability to absorb new trends and outside influences. Cholos are like the Japanese of the gang world - strong sense of cultural identity but willing to borrow anything from anybody if it serves them.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » May 27th, 2010, 4:01 pm

Thank you, other cultures especially Chicanos have the tendency to hold on to customs, blacks move on rapidly.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 27th, 2010, 8:40 pm

Okay look perongregory and silencioso-both made good points and the comaprisons on japenese culture and chicano culture was pretty clear -Ive said as much -Chicanos are able to take things like Vans and make a play outta them and turn them into a gangster style-we can take motown and make it into a whole set of cultural nuances that influence THE ENTIRE USA. Just picture -smile now cry later tattoos and drifting on a memory themes. You say blacks created tagging but Ive heard over and over it was puerto ricans who started that. Plus like you and I both said the style of LAs graffiti scene is extremely intermixed with cholo styles -at one point cholos and taggers were indistinguishable in their dress except for the mullets and ponytails. I just dont see 2 much black influence in chicano culture outside the music. Adaptingto the times and changing the trends to match the style of the day -let continously keeping our culture and traditions.Isnt that what the italian mafioso in NYC do and did? Take a look back at the pictures of cholos in the 1970s. They wore long hair in a ducktail,moustaches and bellbottoms yet through all this gangs of ELA were active and alive and although they may have been times when our gangs were on the ropes-like present day...they and our influences bounced back-inso much so that blacks -asians-whites and all others claim our styles as the styles of the west coast -belonging to all. Such as the gangster style of dress. The form and pattern of AMERICAS tattooing culture and even the writing of Americas scene. Blacks and all others dont see howve the copied our styles because to them and everyone else the style belong to everyone-inso much that we've popularized these ideas to the point that theyve outlived and outlasted ANY style of dress or trend in the last hundred years. These styles have become part of every gangbangers and urban youths styles from coast to coast whites/blacks/asians and even middle eastern peoples,when others claim that HEY the latinkings are a puerto rican gang they dont even take into account that MEXICANS were their from the LKs beginings and that although NEW YORK is home to the vast majority of PRs only amongst chicano influence did they really begin to develop a gang culture. Yet now you have TRG and ABZ in Massassachussettes and Florida and NYC -and they believe mistakenly that their patterns and styles and graffitti and tattooing is original?LOL .....what let me ask you have OTHERS done for Americas scene? Its quite ridicolous.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » May 27th, 2010, 11:31 pm

The whole concept of "crews" - party crews, tagging crews etc. - came from NY hip hop. That's one of the biggest changes in L.A. gang history. Before hip hop you had big gangs and minor gangs, no crews. The "crew" concept created a whole new category of street group that was later absorbed into the established varrio gang culture. That's easily as big as the influence cholos had on L.A. black gangs.


Actually if I remember correctly CREWS came from the italians. As in belonging to someones crew, in a mafia family. Then later PRs and Blacks adopted the model created by Italians-As far as I know the partys crews are an LA invention. Techno and Raves first really took off here and San Fransisco -then eventually around the block.


To name LA as the heart of Americas street isnt being arrogant.

Prison gangs, forms of tattooing, asian gangs in America, styles of dress,ravers,bikers,the styles appropriated by white youth-all and many many more evolved here. And not to sound arrogant but most of it didnt evolve amongst blacks/asians or anyone else.

The zboys and dogtown is a documentary that follows the skateboard scene and how those guys from venice changed the skateboard scene by starting crews,planning raves,dressing in dickies and white Ts, getting tatted down. They claim as their influence the members of the local latino gang DOGTOWN 13 as their biggest influencers in dress and style. To quote-" The local hispanic gangs would wear their dickies and have their tattoos which always looked cool to me, I just kinda followed what they were wearing-it was the style then". Essetially this statement shows again why we are at the forefront of America. People wil lalways love the look we started. FAR FAR FAR more whites are into this now then anything else. Yet 15 years ago the only people to do these things were us. Now the influence of blacks on us is as f]dramitic as our influence on them-their influences are tiny and minor -for instance perongregory said striking out your enemies and rims on jeeps , well shoot thats extremely minor! Now there is a great dispute saying the RED AND BLUE didnt originate amongst SUR and NORTE but come on now ?! you reiterate the history of black gangs going to the 1920s -YET we had gangs established pretty heavily in the years black gangs begun. The 38th and DOGTOWN were thought to have started at the turn of the century 1900s or so. Dogtown traces a year claiming to have begun in 1909. The first black neighborhoods held modern day cholos-38th street started in south central.Just think about the ability of these people to withstand changes in demographics and styles and forms of dress-to bring about the DOGTOWNS and 38th street to the year 2010-its afr more then just gangbanging which in itself is senseless, the styles of LAs chicano gangs have evolved and made Americas urban youth who they are and we did it essentialy on our own and in our own fashion irregardless of how little hollywood paid us attention and unlike blacks who were just blasted on TV -we never took cornrolls or gumbo or jazz or anything they did and ran with it like theyve done our nuances.

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Location: Los Angeles

Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » May 27th, 2010, 11:38 pm

You k on trying to downplay blacks homie and pump up mexicans, but what about the whites, as I and Silencioso said before, they started this shit before a black or a Mexican actually they started the original DOGTOWN gang, the Irish. Stop downplaying everybody else... Shit is unbecoming.

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