Zimbabwe calls for return of white farmers!

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Zimbabwe calls for return of white farmers!

Unread post by Invincible » May 25th, 2005, 4:34 am

Andrew Meldrum in Pretoria
Saturday May 21, 2005
The Guardian

White farmers may be allowed back on their land in Zimbabwe as part of a plan by the government of Robert Mugabe to solve the country's deepening economic crisis.
The president's key finance aide has called for some of the farmers whose properties were confiscated in a land seizure programme to be allowed to resume growing crops to boost the country's flagging agricultural output.

Gideon Gono, governor of the central bank and Mr Mugabe's main policy maker, made the proposal as he announced a 31% devaluation of the Zimbabwe currency.

"In order to ensure maximum productivity levels, there is great scope in the country promoting and supporting joint ventures between the new farmers with progressive-minded former operators," said Mr Gono in a state radio and television broadcast that lasted nearly three hours.
He added that the skilled whites and other new investors would be given special guarantees of uninterrupted tenure of five to 10 years, backed by government force to prevent any disruptions on the farms.

Mr Gono was careful to say that it would not reverse Mr Mugabe's redistribution of white-owned land to blacks.

However, observers say his plan would be an implicit admission that the land seizure policy has failed.

A Zimbabwean economist, John Robertson, said: "This shows the desperation of the government to improve the economy. They say it is not a reversal of their land seizures, but it is. It won't get very far.

"I don't think many farmers will take up the offer because they would have to give up their title deeds and lease their land back.

"The range of measures proposed by Gono and the government show that the economic situation is dire. But they are avoiding the fundamental changes needed because those would be opposed by Mugabe. These measures don't add up. The economy will continue to be a disaster area."

At the start of the land seizure policy in 2000, Zimbabwe had 4,500 white farmers, now about 400 remain on portions of their farms. Mozambique, Zambia and Nigeria have welcomed some of the skilled white farmers.

The economy has also shrunk by more than 40% in five years.

Yesterday Mr Mugabe did not comment on Mr Gono's proposal.

During the election campaign in March, the president said he was disappointed that only 44% of the land seized from whites was being cultivated and that the remainder was lying fallow.

He has also had to admit that Zimbabwe, once called "the breadbasket of Africa", needs to import food to feed its population. For months he had boasted that the country had a bumper harvest and would "choke" if it was forced to take international food aid.

But Mr Mugabe said this week that his government would welcome food from the UN, as long as it came without any political conditions.

The government announced yesterday that it was busy redrawing its 2005 budget to fund food imports.

Drastic cuts to other parts of the budget will be needed to raise the money to import food, the acting finance minister, Patrick Chinamasa, said, according to Reuters.

On Thursday the government devalued its currency and banned imports of luxury goods to try to reduce the economic freefall. But the devaluation falls far short of the Z$25,000 that one US dollar (55p) fetches on Zimbabwe's thriving black market.

Mr Gono reduced by half his forecasts of the country's economic growth, to 2.5%. That figure is viewed as unrealistic by economists, who point out the five consecutive years of economic decline.

John Worsley-Worswick of Justice for Agriculture said: "This is a puppet show and it's not going to solve things. Gono is a master of spin and he is saying that he can fix things. But the reality is that the few farmers who have managed to stay on their land are being hammered by the military.

"This suggestion that white farmers could come back is an admission of their failure, but I don't know anyone who would take them up on their offer. The government's agriculture policy has failed abysmally. There is no maize, there is no wheat, people are hungry. It's a debacle."

· Eighty percent of black South Africans who responded to a survey believe Mr Mugabe is ruling badly

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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » May 30th, 2005, 6:45 pm

Yeah running off whitey was a big mistake. Its like, now what? Damn, you mean a farm takes ---work----? Shit dont just grow with out ----work----
I say let them starve. Those scaley, skinny, maggotts. Love how the united nations stepped in while there was ethnic cleansing going on there. Blacks burning down homes and raping white woman doesnt make the UN bat an eye. But let it be the other way around there would be troops on the ground and Al Sharpton and Jesse would be fighting for camera time over it. OK, I know there are plenty of very smart blacks and so forth. But there is not many smart africans I can assure you. Been there, seen that. What American blacks dont seem to understand is, you wouldnt want to align yourself with africans. They are animals. They live like animals, and if your honest are an embarrasment to the black race. Just as inbread rednecks are to the white race. Let whitey run things and you will all be much better off. That is if your willing to ----work----

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Unread post by blakman » May 30th, 2005, 8:01 pm

It's what we call western PROPAGANDA!!!!

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Unread post by fistfullofboomstick » May 30th, 2005, 8:12 pm

that shit is fact brother, since the white farmers were kicked out the economy has been shitty, thats a fact

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Dont forget South AFrica

Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » May 31st, 2005, 4:20 am

After Mandela came to power S.A. became the murder , rape, and car jacking capital of the world almost over night. Blacks have their strengths.
Their strengths are equal to white strengths, but their strength is not leadership,inovation,and creativity in terms of oraganization of society and such. Acknowlaging our weakness is the first step torward empowerment. White men cant jump, so work your outside shooting game. Is anyone catching on here?

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Unread post by Mraka » May 31st, 2005, 10:24 am

it is called being polemic.
nothing new about ya?

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Polemic...yes

Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » May 31st, 2005, 11:16 am

Its sad, but predictable, that one would bother to argue over such simple clear facts. Whites are civilization builders, Asians do a nice copy job and are civilization maintaners, blacks are civilizations destroyer's, and all the other races are hybrids of those three and usually fall in between maintaners and destroyers. It really is just that simple...

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Unread post by Mraka » May 31st, 2005, 11:59 am

aha





how old are you?



dont know why many african countrys are run that bad,maybe Zimbabwe was not supposed to be of that kind.

I believe it is more an equivalent to any other country. It's just a mirrorview.

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no

Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » May 31st, 2005, 9:29 pm

Equivelent to another 3rd world nation? Yes. First world no. Your attempt to malign is noted by your questioning my age. An old Nazi ploy, first make fun of it then you can more easily demonize it. I have read all the techniques of manipulation and propoganda, Goebbles was excellent. However your attempt is in vain. My simple desriptions are that way for a reason, Im speaking in language this audience can understand.

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no 1 can stand under

Unread post by Mraka » June 1st, 2005, 2:29 pm

but you should feel relief,reading an article how 22000 zimbabwians are arrested in slum.thats one of a kind news for you.these underpriveleged,fenced in.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/06 ... =cnn_world

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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » June 2nd, 2005, 2:05 pm

Relief? I am suprised they were arrested and not taken out in the country and shot, or hacked apart. Having spent 5 years in Africa, I know that would not have been a stretch. Just another facist government, protecting its citizens....

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Re: Polemic...yes

Unread post by Sentenza » June 2nd, 2005, 2:10 pm

AcmeWhiteBread wrote:Its sad, but predictable, that one would bother to argue over such simple clear facts. Whites are civilization builders, Asians do a nice copy job and are civilization maintaners, blacks are civilizations destroyer's, and all the other races are hybrids of those three and usually fall in between maintaners and destroyers. It really is just that simple...


Thats simply not even close to the truth. There are too many examples that disapprove what you said.

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Unread post by Sentenza » June 2nd, 2005, 2:15 pm

well, if you consider genocide, fascism and world wars as civilization building, yes you are right.

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Unread post by Cold Bear » June 2nd, 2005, 2:18 pm

Examples to disprove: Like Egyptians, Mayans, all types of Chinese Dynasties (Ming, Song, Han), Arabs who developed algebra

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Re: Zimbabwe calls for return of white farmers!

Unread post by Michelle » June 2nd, 2005, 3:20 pm

Invincible wrote:Andrew Meldrum in Pretoria
Saturday May 21, 2005
The Guardian

White farmers may be allowed back on their land in Zimbabwe as part of a plan by the government of Robert Mugabe to solve the country's deepening economic crisis.
The president's key finance aide has called for some of the farmers whose properties were confiscated in a land seizure programme to be allowed to resume growing crops to boost the country's flagging agricultural output.

Gideon Gono, governor of the central bank and Mr Mugabe's main policy maker, made the proposal as he announced a 31% devaluation of the Zimbabwe currency.

"In order to ensure maximum productivity levels, there is great scope in the country promoting and supporting joint ventures between the new farmers with progressive-minded former operators," said Mr Gono in a state radio and television broadcast that lasted nearly three hours.
He added that the skilled whites and other new investors would be given special guarantees of uninterrupted tenure of five to 10 years, backed by government force to prevent any disruptions on the farms.

Mr Gono was careful to say that it would not reverse Mr Mugabe's redistribution of white-owned land to blacks.

However, observers say his plan would be an implicit admission that the land seizure policy has failed.

A Zimbabwean economist, John Robertson, said: "This shows the desperation of the government to improve the economy. They say it is not a reversal of their land seizures, but it is. It won't get very far.

"I don't think many farmers will take up the offer because they would have to give up their title deeds and lease their land back.

"The range of measures proposed by Gono and the government show that the economic situation is dire. But they are avoiding the fundamental changes needed because those would be opposed by Mugabe. These measures don't add up. The economy will continue to be a disaster area."

At the start of the land seizure policy in 2000, Zimbabwe had 4,500 white farmers, now about 400 remain on portions of their farms. Mozambique, Zambia and Nigeria have welcomed some of the skilled white farmers.

The economy has also shrunk by more than 40% in five years.

Yesterday Mr Mugabe did not comment on Mr Gono's proposal.

During the election campaign in March, the president said he was disappointed that only 44% of the land seized from whites was being cultivated and that the remainder was lying fallow.

He has also had to admit that Zimbabwe, once called "the breadbasket of Africa", needs to import food to feed its population. For months he had boasted that the country had a bumper harvest and would "choke" if it was forced to take international food aid.

But Mr Mugabe said this week that his government would welcome food from the UN, as long as it came without any political conditions.

The government announced yesterday that it was busy redrawing its 2005 budget to fund food imports.

Drastic cuts to other parts of the budget will be needed to raise the money to import food, the acting finance minister, Patrick Chinamasa, said, according to Reuters.

On Thursday the government devalued its currency and banned imports of luxury goods to try to reduce the economic freefall. But the devaluation falls far short of the Z$25,000 that one US dollar (55p) fetches on Zimbabwe's thriving black market.

Mr Gono reduced by half his forecasts of the country's economic growth, to 2.5%. That figure is viewed as unrealistic by economists, who point out the five consecutive years of economic decline.

John Worsley-Worswick of Justice for Agriculture said: "This is a puppet show and it's not going to solve things. Gono is a master of spin and he is saying that he can fix things. But the reality is that the few farmers who have managed to stay on their land are being hammered by the military.

"This suggestion that white farmers could come back is an admission of their failure, but I don't know anyone who would take them up on their offer. The government's agriculture policy has failed abysmally. There is no maize, there is no wheat, people are hungry. It's a debacle."

· Eighty percent of black South Africans who responded to a survey believe Mr Mugabe is ruling badly


That's because they rely on foreign experts who don't even understand the real problems, they should be working to meet their needs and listening to them rather then telling them how to farm in such a difficult ecology. maybe then some progress will actually be made.

Two years prior independence black farmers produced 500,000 odd tons of maize, a year after independence black farmers produced twice as much, I believe it was around around 1,00,000 maize. And white settler government paid them half the amount for each ton to the what the independent government paid them. Again priority went to whites.

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Unread post by Mraka » June 3rd, 2005, 12:11 am

they could get along with their traditional seeding,but monocultures for international markets ruin the ground.history will show if the situation simbabwe is in,was made up by international credit found(IWF) so to send em gen-food.

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Unread post by Michelle » June 3rd, 2005, 1:08 am

more was achieved in a decade of independence than in 4 centuries of colonial rule and throwing money at them doesn't provide a solution. As for the person who said ''feeding off whitey'' don't you think you owe compensation for the wealth you sucked from them?

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Unread post by Invincible » June 10th, 2005, 10:37 am

Two years prior independence black farmers produced 500,000 odd tons of maize, a year after independence black farmers produced twice as much, I believe it was around around 1,00,000 maize. And white settler government paid them half the amount for each ton to the what the independent government paid them. Again priority went to whites.


That wasn't because of blacks taking over, that was because of general deregulation which is of course a very good thing, and don't talk about a "difficult ecology" - have you ever been to Zimbabwe, the majority of the land mass is perfect for farming.

I ask again, have you ever been to Southern Africa, if you have then fine, make your claims, otherwise go there before quoting books written by people who almost always have an agenda, whatever the slant of their writing may be.

don't you think you owe compensation for the wealth you sucked from them?


1. Wealth sucked from whom?

2. What wealth does he owe?

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Unread post by Michelle » June 10th, 2005, 4:03 pm

I'll get back to you on this because i'm tired so i'm not going to go into it tonight as I want to back it up with some informative links so I'll have to do a bit of reading. Also I didn't speak to you condescendingly so don't do it to me.

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Unread post by BlaKK » June 11th, 2005, 5:19 pm

Intresting... Im Gonna Have To Do More research on this...Ill Get back on it.. If You ask Me it Sounds like Western Imperalism...But Again, I dont know...Lemme Get Back at this.

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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » June 12th, 2005, 10:13 am

How utterly boring and spent are the ideas that whitey created the black mans problems. Lets just leave Africa alone, all whites pack it in and get out. No aid, no hand outs. Complete self sifficiency and we will see what becomes of it. You sorry assed haters will have to really dig deep to blame it on whitey then, but you will none the less. Its just nauseating and boring the way you cant just keep it simple and accept some simple truths. No wonder the world is so stuck on stupid.

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Unread post by BlaKK » June 12th, 2005, 12:39 pm

I'm Not Blaiming The White Man For Any Problems... But Like Rasta Always Say, "We Dont Want No Body, Giving Us Nothing, Just Open Up The Door, And we'll Get it Ourselves" -Rasta

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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » June 12th, 2005, 8:32 pm

Nobody opened the door for whitey, you open the damn door...I mean come on thats another request right there..

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Unread post by BlaKK » June 12th, 2005, 8:47 pm

No, Acme, Every Man Should Be Granted Equality...That is all I was suggesting... No Body Should be be forced to A lower Education, Simply because of financial Disabilites. Again, Everybody should be granted Equality.
We, I, Am Not asking for ANYTHING from ANYBODY, Let me asssure You, It is Every Man For HIMSELF, Go Your Own, Get Your Own, Pull Your Own, Carry your own, Its Eye For Eye. So Rid that Bullshyt "We Want" notion AcmeWhiteBoi.

Tell Your Democratic Southern Folk To Stop Giving us what we need NOT, Acting as if we are Inferior And "Need" There support...This is why I&I said "I Dont want No Body, Giving Me Nothing, Open Up that door, And Ill get it myself" And I stand by that statement. Do You see why I said it now Acme? Do you understand the context in which I speak, It was a metaphor against Oppression. We Need Not From the White Man...Grant us Guranteed Equality, And Fundamental Opportunity, That is all In Which I ask, That is all In Which We need.

"That until the basic human rights are equally
Guaranteed to all, without regard to race
Dis a war" - Rasta (His Impreal Majesty)
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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » June 12th, 2005, 9:05 pm

There is no equality in this world. From fish in the sea to animals in the wild to the human species. Its against the law of nature to try and force what can never be. All it does is bring down the top, not lift the bottom up. Now your throwing little smart ass remarks acme white boi. You immidiatly go there becasue your feelings are hurt. This is an intellectual conversation, its not supposed to hurt to discover truths through sharing ideas. I have no sympathy for poor people only becasue I was raised as poor as anyone in America. But I made it happen, you wanna see the new BMW I bought for my wife yesterday? And me, a high school drop out making 198,000.00 a year. Must be because Im white. The only problem with that is I do it on the stock market and my trading platforms are computers so they know no color. Cept $GREEN$ !!!

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Unread post by BlaKK » June 13th, 2005, 10:40 am

I Got Up and Got Mine as well, Acme im a 19 Year Old Making 17.00 An Hour, Supervisor Up at Best Buy, But IandI Have nothing to Do with This... I made it Happen As You say. But Understand Both You and I were Given The Opportune...Otherwise we would Not be where we are correct? Some Do not have the fundamental Right of an Opportunity, If they have no Opportunity They will Have nothing to be achieved, and nothing to be gained. You See, You feel Me yet? Do You have a Clue how hard it was for me, A Drealocked Rasta to Get Hired in Babylon, in a society that doesnt even except Us? But Nevermind mind all that, Im Not Part of the Equation Right now, it Doesnt Matter How You Got there, For as long as You Get there. And Many Aren't even Given the chance to Rise above, Overcome and Counqer. Equality Is A Subject often talked about, And Constantly Proposed, but NEVER ATTAINED.

I Have Much Respect for you Acme, Making 190,000 is mad cash, Specially for A High School Drop Out... That is Mad Bank Roll. Glad to See you Pulled through And Got on with it. If More people had the Mind set as You and I, Poverty would siese to Exists. And be Wipped out of Society.

And Your Name... I siad 'Acmewhiteboi' as a misunderstanding, I never really looked at your screen name, And I simply Suggested it was acme white boi, But I was obviously Wrong. Sorry About that. ACMEWHITEBREAD.

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Unread post by Sentenza » June 13th, 2005, 6:24 pm

But Acme theres one thing that makes me wonder...
You said you were in the foreign legion in africa for a few years. So you have seen the politics there first hand.
I am really interested in your opinion of what Chevron, De Beers, Elf Aquitaine and so on do to those countries.
In which way do you think do Africans in those countries (angola, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Liberia etc.) profit from the actions of those companies?

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Unread post by AcmeWhiteBread » June 13th, 2005, 10:16 pm

They provide an economy that if utilized correctly SHOULD bring wealth and stability to the people of those nations. I mean, what does DeBeers do in America? Its no different over there. The difference is religeous, tribal, education, values, social structures and so forth. The difference is the populace. Its not like the companies are just these rogue pirates who operate there and kill off their slaves when their done with them. Now let me be clear, they dont have the same workers protection laws we do in America, but then how many nations do? The european countries tend to protect the worker better than America. But still, there are many native africans, for lack of a better term, who live well working for those companies. I mean well compared to eating weeds.

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Unread post by Sentenza » June 14th, 2005, 5:22 am

What would you say to this then....ok, one doesnt have to like greenpeace, but the story is still fact.

KEN SARO WIWA AND 8 OGONI PEOPLE EXECUTED: BLOOD ON SHELL'S HANDS

London--10 November 1995--The blood of Ken Saro-Wiwa will permanently stain the name of Shell, Greenpeace said today in response to the news that Ken Saro-Wiwa and eight other Ogoni were, according to widespread rumours, hanged this morning in Port Harcourt, Nigeria.

"Ken Saro-Wiwa was hanged today for speaking out against the environmental damage to the Niger Delta caused by Shell Oil through its 37 years of drilling in the region. Ken Saro Wiwa was campaigning for what Greenpeace considers the most basic of human rights: the right for clean air, land and water. His only crime was his success in bringing his cause to international attention," said Thilo Bode, Executive Director of Greenpeace International.

Greenpeace warned that any protest in the Niger Delta today, non violent or otherwise, would likely be met with military force and further massacres. Bode appealed to General Sani Abacha to let the Ogoni people voice their grief without fear of violence and further deaths.

Shell's call for "quiet diplomacy" in the 11th hour following the confirmation of the death sentence by the Nigerian Ruling Council has a hollow ring. Shell had ample opportunity t

o demonstrate concern over the 17 months of Ken's incarceration and trial. They chose to maintain their cosy relationship with the military dictatorship to secure oil profits rather than condemn, the brutal and unjust arrest and later sentencing of non-violent environmental campaigners.

"If Shell and the Nigerian military think that the hanging of Saro-Wiwa has removed national and international outrage, they're wrong. Greenpeace today reaffirms its dedication to continue the campaign against environmental destruction by the oil industry," said Mr Bode.

In his closing address to the tribunal, Saro-Wiwa stated "I repeat that we all stand before history. I and my colleagues are not the only ones on trial. Shell is here on trial and it is as well that it is represented by counsel said to be holding a watching brief. The Company has, indeed, ducked this particular trial, but its day will surely come and the lessons learnt here may prove useful to it for there is no doubt in my mind that the ecological war that the Company has waged in the Delta will be called to question sooner than later and the crimes of that war be duly punished. The crime of the Company's dirty wars against the Ogoni people will also be punished."

"In my innocence of the false charges I face here, in my utter conviction, I call upon the Ogoni people, the peoples of the Niger delta, and the oppressed ethnic minorities of Nigeria to stand up now and fight fearlessly and peacefully for their rights. History is on their side. God is on their side. For the Holy Quran says in Sura 42, verse 41:"All those that fight when oppressed incur no guilt, but Allah shall punish the oppressor. Come the day."

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Unread post by Sentenza » June 14th, 2005, 5:27 am

ok one more quote. i know its much to read, but its worth the time i think:

Exploitation by Multinationals and local Rulers

An October 2002 report written for UN by independent panel of experts, accused dozens of multinationals including Barclays Bank, De Beers and Anglo American of facilitating the plunder of Congo's wealth. This scathing account accused 85 multinational companies based in Europe, the US and South Africa of violating ethical guidelines in dealing with criminal networks which have pillaged natural resources from the war-torn country. A scramble for gold, diamonds, cobalt and copper by army officers, government officials and entrepreneurs from Congo and neighbouring African countries had generated billions of dollars which found its way to mining companies and financial institutions. Some of the report's harshest criticism was levelled at officials from several African countries who stayed in Congo after peace deals led to the official withdrawal of outside forces. The list of the accused is a roll call of top military officers, government officials and businessmen, --The elite networks derive financial benefit through a variety of criminal activities, including theft, embezzlement, diversion of public funds, undervaluation of goods, smuggling, false invoicing, non-payment of taxes, kickbacks to public officials and bribery," the report said. So lucrative and elaborate was the looting that there were attempts to prolong the fighting by stirring conflict between rival militias and rebels. "Those [criminal] groups will not disband voluntarily. They have built up a self-financing war economy centred on mineral exploitation," the report added. Rwanda's claim to have stayed in Congo to hunt the Hutu militia responsible for the 1994 genocide was described as a cover for its army's desire to strip minerals. But the era of colonization and exploitation far from over.

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Unread post by Sentenza » June 14th, 2005, 5:32 am

if you ask me, theres a lot of potential in africa. They have all kinds of expensive ressources and some africans i know are among the most ambitious people i have met.
i think its a combination of factors that hold african countries down. Greedy local politicians and greedy foreign companies.

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Unread post by Invincible » June 18th, 2005, 12:57 am

this is fucked up (dont know if this is zimbabwe or not):
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/aidol/1118851770347.jpg[/img]
I think it shows no matter what race we are we all exploit one another.

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