race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by blakman » February 3rd, 2004, 11:38 am

You want to know what i think, Mexicans seem to have a lot of jelousy and envy towards black folk. I don't now why they feel this way, but I have heared some mexicans say that we black people are holding them down. Like I said I don't know were they are getting this ideas from, but some of them actually belive that. What a lot of mexicans especially the younger ones don't understand is that Blacks had to fight for the little things that not only we get to enjoy but every other race get's to enjoy. For me and alot of brothers that i know are starting to realise that mexicans harbor a lot of hatred towards black because the feel like we are below them, which if you ask me is some straight up white supremesist shit. The alliance that mexicans who are supposedly a minority group have with those devil's says a lot about your people. I have eared some mexicans say that the would rather support whites than blacks in general. This are the same people who told lies to your people and took your land. The last time I checked blacks never did such things to your people, so why all the hate. Y'all need to wake the fuck up and take the blind folds off before it's to late. I have noticed that seens the census said hispanics are the largest minority group in the U.S, mexicans think it's some signale for them to grow some balls and start being though guy's all of a sudden. What I want black people to realis is that we have no friends and we have no allies and i don't want them to be fooled by mexicans playing games. I just want my brothers to see that like white people mexicans would very much love to put us in our place but they can't.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 3rd, 2004, 12:53 pm

-You want to know what i think, Mexicans seem to have a lot of jelousy and envy towards black folk. I don't now why they feel this way, but I have heared some mexicans say that we black people are holding them down.

*Yep, I've heard many mexicans, young and old tell me this!

-Like I said I don't know were they are getting this ideas from, but some of them actually belive that. What a lot of mexicans especially the younger ones don't understand is that Blacks had to fight for the little things that not only we get to enjoy but every other race get's to enjoy.

*It's not so much that they don't believe it, rather it's that they don't want to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not!

-For me and alot of brothers that i know are starting to realise that mexicans harbor a lot of hatred towards black because the feel like we are below them, which if you ask me is some straight up white supremesist @$%*. The alliance that mexicans who are supposedly a minority group have with those devil's says a lot about your people. I have eared some mexicans say that the would rather support whites than blacks in general. This are the same people who told lies to your people and took your land. The last time I checked blacks never did such things to your people, so why all the hate. Y'all need to wake the "i will get banned" up and take the blind folds off before it's to late. I have noticed that seens the census said hispanics are the largest minority group in the U.S, mexicans think it's some signale for them to grow some balls and start being though guy's all of a sudden. What I want black people to realis is that we have no friends and we have no allies and i don't want them to be fooled by mexicans playing games. I just want my brothers to see that like white people mexicans would very much love to put us in our place but they can't.

*I've couldn't have said it better myself.

Mind you, I'm not saying that blacks ought to be racist, or not have mexican friends, or go out and kill mexicans wantonly. Instead I'm saying that blacks ought to form organizations to defend themselves from the predators within and without their race, and that when you talk about white racism and treachery-INCLUDE HIS SUN TANNED BRETHREN: MEXICANS, OR ANY OTHER MESTIZO, OR LATINO/HISPANIC WITH A WHITE SUPREMACIST/AMERINDIAN/HISPANIDAD AGENDA!!

This is the 21st century, and many of the arguments that black folks have espoused must be thrown away, and/or updated. I'm not the only person to feel this way!! You have growing numbers of black people who once viewed white folks solely as the enemy, and would jump in another black man's face and deliver a verbal beatdown if they included mexicans with white folks that are racist, but are now, based on their experiences with mexicans, and the unprovoked hostility directed at them from mexicans-ARE BEGINNING TO VIEW WHITES AND MEXICANS AS ONE AND THE SAME, BECAUSE THEY ARE, IN REGARDS TO RACISM AND OTHER AREAS: just give it time!

I'm always hearing mexicans say (and other racist latinos/hispanics, particularly of the mestizo variety) that white folks coddled and pampered black folks, but now that we're in control WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE BLACK FOLKS SHYT!!! At first I often wondered where they were coming from, because I do believe that you do have blacks that cry racism at the drop of a hat, where it doesn't exist, and will rely on that angle to get by. However, I also realize that blacks have fought white folks with their blood, sweat and tears, throughout their sojourn in this country, with the hopes of making the laws and the constitution bear the righteous type of fruit, the words promised and declared!

When black folks were getting killed because they wanted the right to vote, or get an education-yeah whites had conceded, and in many ways have loosened portions of the noose, and their feet on black folks neck! Many of them realize the wrong, and have corrected it, not only in laws, but in their personal lives. However, many mexicans don't believe that blacks didn't, and don't deserve anything that they've rightfully fought for!! Many mexicans believe that since they're more superior to blacks, that white folks should've "given" to them (mexicans), what was "given" to blacks, BECAUSE IN THE END, BLACK FOLKS ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RACIAL HIERARCHY AND DON'T DESERVE NADA!

When mexicans say "It's our time" or "This is our day", what they're inferring is that they'll be more preeminent in the eyes of their white brethren, and that the opportunities to shine in this white man's world, will come into fruition, with the black folks relegated to a place where they rightfully belonged, all along-BENEATH MEXICANS!!!!!! Because many mexicans feel that if they can't be better, and do better than a "nigger", THEN WHAT AM I!!! (I haven't even discussed the aztlanista mindset!)

Not only that, the statements that "It's our time", or "It's our day", is juvenile and racist, and is an earmark of fools who's not use to having power, and a potential oppressor, once their "day" arrives! Secondly, those statements are asinine, because the very real problems of racism and discrimination will not dissipate for black people, and just as how blacks had to contend with white folks during the dawn of the twentieth century, likewise blacks will have to contend with mexicans, and/or latinos/hispanics (particular of the white and mestizo class primarily), with a white supremacist/amerindian/hispanidad agenda!

Man, I can say more on this, and probably will, but let me end it by saying this:

I know that what I'm saying may be hard, however, I stand by every single post that I've posted, as well as every syllable of words that I used to express myself. Hopefully those who disagree with me (sondoobie, slim, wcrockets) are right, and I'm wrong. I have no qualms about that at all. However, I don't think I'm wrong, and I strongly believe that in the coming years, everything I've said will come to pass.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by blakman » February 3rd, 2004, 2:09 pm

TheReal i am really feeling what your saying. The thing that bugs me the most is that mexicans or hispanics or whatever have this strange belief that to be proud of ones culture you have to down play other people accomplishments or their culture to make yourself feel better about yourself particulerly against the black race. I am just tired of my brothers killing themself and gangbangin on each other when we could take all that anger and fustration an band on the system just like the panther tried to do in the late 60's. The truth is nobody wants to see the black man do good because the fear us so much and that's the truth]

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Slim » February 3rd, 2004, 2:58 pm

The Real:

Despite everything you have written (it shows that you are an intelligent, well read young man) you did not understand the core of my statement. My first paragraph ended by me stating that Blacks and Mexicans needed to find peace and unity within themselves...........

Your comments (very looooonnng) are appreciated and does provoke some thought, but you are showing that you have issues with Hispanics (and based upon your ancestrage YOURSELF!!). I am a Black man! There is nothing about me African. I am of Black American and Native American heritage (sisters love it). Go to Africa and see what the native Africans call you???????

This subject is Blacks vs. Mexicans......correct???????

My point is that this type of made up war is already happening (in prison, on certain neighborhoods, schools, political arenas such as Lynwood, CPT.etc.). This war will never expand as some expect (the entire Black race vs. all Mexicans). It will never happen in the gang sense either (as I stated all SA's do not listen to what those old f*cks in prison say. And we know that black gangs stopped listening to the prison guerillas decades ago).

We are simply two different groups, two different cultures competing for the same piece of pie. It is not even that big a piece. I am an LA native (all 31 years of my life). And I have associates of nearly every ethnicity. I am a Black man that for most of his life fit the profile that Amerikkka has had for all young Black men. The reasons that I mentioned as to Mexican hate are real. Hell, they are the same reasons why Black people do not like their own kind sometimes.

We are a people (Black) that have over 650+ billion in spending power in this country (more then most of the world). If we get the right leadership and the right motivation, we are unstoppable. We should not waste our time thinking about race wars when our own house (as a race) is not yet in order. Understand however, if the Mexicans wanted to ride on us for being Black, then I would gladly return the favor without hesitation.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 3rd, 2004, 3:55 pm

In response to Slim:

-The Real:

-Despite everything you have written (it shows that you are an intelligent, well read young man) you did not understand the core of my statement. My first paragraph ended by me stating that Blacks and Mexicans needed to find peace and unity within themselves...........

*I didn't disagree with that statement! Where did I imply that I had a disagreement with that statement? Furthermore, none of what I said compromised your belief, neither does it take away, and dissipate my positions!

-Your comments (very looooonnng) are appreciated and does provoke some thought, but you are showing that you have issues with Hispanics (and based upon your ancestrage YOURSELF!!).

*No, I don't have issues with hispanics based on my ancestral heritage. Now you're beginning to falsely psychoanalyze me. Trust me, my father was a black, black, black, black CUBAN, with tight kinky hair, and strong african features, whereas my mother was part black, with her father being part native american and white-yet she referred to herself as black, as did my father! So I can understand you thinking that way, however, it is not the case.

Fact of the matter is, regardless of whether you're right, or wrong, in your assessments of my motivations, IT STILL DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM MY ARGUMENTS, nor does it detract, or sway me from my position!

-I am a Black man! There is nothing about me African.

*The fact that you're black, only tells me you have african heritage. When I use the term "african diaspora", I'm referring to those individuals whose ancestors come from africa, or those individuals whose ancestors were brought over to the western hemisphere, in order to be sold and utilized as chattel, from africa. I understand the codified definition of the word "black", I'm no fool. In a lot of ways, I've been there, and done that, in regards to this angle of the conversation.

-I am of Black American and Native American heritage (sisters love it).

*Good for you!

-Go to Africa and see what the native Africans call you???????

*I don't need to go back to Africa, in order to "see what the native Africans call" me! Why? Because it's still not going to detract from the fact that we are people of african descent, as well as of the diaspora!! I know black folks that look like Denzel Washington, or Angela Bassett, whose part native-american, and have even told native-americans these things, whereby the native-americans had rejected them.

In the end, it doesn't matter whether these native americans rejected these black folks, with indigenous ancestry, what really mattered, and does matter, is the fact that they did have native-american ancestry, despite what anyone, including native americans, thought!

-This subject is Blacks vs. Mexicans......correct???????

*Uh...that's what I thought...

-My point is that this type of made up war is already happening (in prison, on certain neighborhoods, schools, political arenas such as Lynwood, CPT.etc.). This war will never expand as some expect (the entire Black race vs. all Mexicans). It will never happen in the gang sense either (as I stated all SA's do not listen to what those old f*cks in prison say.

*That's not true. I have mexican homies who are surenos, and they give the opposite story. Man, there's been murders that have been ordered from prison, onto the civilian gang population that have been carried out. As a matter of fact, some mexican heads in prison ordered surenos to fight and war with black gangs, and not to touch the white gangs and their meager territory, as well fight with their fellow sureno brothers: well, most of them.

As a matter of fact, I'm not going any further with this topic, because of personal reasons. In other words, if you want to live in that world, where the prison code, doesn't play out in the streets in regards to many surenos gangs, then go right on ahead believe this. Right now I've said too much already, so Ima move on!

-And we know that black gangs stopped listening to the prison guerillas decades ago).

*Who are you telling???!!

-We are simply two different groups, two different cultures competing for the same piece of pie.

*That's a simple, yet complex way of putting it...but see, I'm not worried about pie, and who has the larger numbers. What I'm discussing is far more penetrating than the numbers game, and the size of a pie, or gang warfare. Trust me, it's a lot deeper...

- It is not even that big a piece.

*Okay, what's the point?

-I am an LA native (all 31 years of my life).

*Okay...

-And I have associates of nearly every ethnicity.

*So do I...

-I am a Black man that for most of his life fit the profile that Amerikkka has had for all young Black men. The reasons that I mentioned as to Mexican hate are real. Hell, they are the same reasons why Black people do not like their own kind sometimes.

*Regardless of whether there are blacks that hate other black people, or mexicans that hate their own kind, or what have you-the fact that in the end, despite blacks hating on blacks, we are still be hated from without. And as we deal with our own self-hate issues amongst ourselves, we cannot be blinded to the hate that's penetrating our walls from without. Black people in this country have always had to fight on two fronts, and from the looks of things, it's not going anywhere, any time soon.

-We are a people (Black) that have over 650+ billion in spending power in this country (more then most of the world). If we get the right leadership and the right motivation, we are unstoppable.

*I have no argument with that!

-We should not waste our time thinking about race wars when our own house (as a race) is not yet in order.

*I think we have to be multifarious on the war front. In the military (the army, which is the branch I was in) you have folks that are pencil pushers, computer geeks, and air traffic controllers. They served a function, mostly administrative and security. Then you had those who were footsoldiers, who lived by their rifles, and weaponry given to them, because they served a function as well. Folks who join the army, or marines, are introduced to thousands of jobs, wherewith to choose from. These branches of the military realize that not everyone can be a computer engineer, air traffic controller, medic, infantry soldier or an MP!

Oh hell no! These branches of the military realize that these folks have to choose their own battlefield, in order to work on behalf of the greater good of the service.

Likewise, I do agree with straightening out our own house. I for one believe in having the capability of walking and chewing gum, at the same time, as well as choosing your own battlefield in the struggle. It would be ridiculous, and the height of stupidity, for an army serviceman/ or woman, to look at their fellow army serviceman/woman, and say that your function in the cause of the service is illegitimate, just because you choose to be an engineer, or a computer, instead of picking up a weapon-and vice-versa. Some folks are needed to be counselors, others technical wizards, whereas others are just needed JUST TO SLAY THE ENEMY.

This is the same for individual black folks, and the weapons they so choose in the struggle.



Just read over some of my posts, where I've stated that we must deal with the predators from within, as well as without, or other remarks that weren't all too complimentary of black folks. However, I do feel that even though the position you hold about taking care of our own house is legitimate, I ALSO FEEL MINE IS WELL!!

Whether you want to view blacks as having to be in a war (and it doesn't have to physical), let it be known, that it will come a time when what I'm saying will ring more true than what many blacks are willing to admit. You see, I pray that you're right, however I strongly feel that time will bear me out to be right in the end.

You take the "high" road, I'll take the "low" road, yet in the end, we both want what's best for black people. Both of are approaches are legit, however, both sides need to be considered-regardless of whether you can appreciate my position, or not.

-Understand however, if the Mexicans wanted to ride on us for being Black, then I would gladly return the favor without hesitation.

*I'm glad to hear you have the spirit of a soldier. Hopefully, that will never have to occur, and that my positions will inevitably prove to be frivolous, however, if what I'm saying is true (and I believe that future history will, as well as the present history [you just have to know where to look] will justify my positions)-as I said before, so say I now again, PREPARE FOR THE COMING STORM!

Lastly, in closing, remember-just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I don't understand where you're coming from: and that goes for sondoobie, alonso, wcrockets, etc. Disagreements are not always based on ignorance from one side, rather legitimate concerns.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 3rd, 2004, 4:05 pm

blakman wrote:TheReal i am really feeling what your saying. The thing that bugs me the most is that mexicans or hispanics or whatever have this strange belief that to be proud of ones culture you have to down play other people accomplishments or their culture to make yourself feel better about yourself particulerly against the black race. I am just tired of my brothers killing themself and gangbangin on each other when we could take all that anger and fustration an band on the system just like the panther tried to do in the late 60's. The truth is nobody wants to see the black man do good because the fear us so much and that's the truth]
*You ain't never lied!

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by E`S`T » February 3rd, 2004, 4:44 pm

Jealous? lol..I dont know about all that. You both have interesting views but I think the more REAL issue here is on the streets and in the pen. Yes there is a problem between both people, but it is not rooted in some buried hatered that is passed from generation to generation. It stared to evolve around the early 90's and it just seems to grow and grow. But don't put labels on a few because of some bad apples, cause that would be like me saying all blacks are predestined to commit crime. You dig?

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Slim » February 3rd, 2004, 5:38 pm

Real;

You are right, disagreements are bound to happen. I had a militant stance on everything in life when I was younger. I grew up and realized the big picture. MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND. Your view is your view and I respect that. You and Blakman have some very good points, but it will all be for not if we as BLACK PEOPLE do not get our act together first.

Let me take it further. You know the saying, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Then if we are going to go to war with anyone, all of our weak links (weak minded and spirited Blacks) should be slain and murdered to ensure that we are victorious. I am not going to point anyone out, but there are several Blacks (celebrities, politicians, specific gangstas, etc.) that should be murdered on sight for there present and past behavior. Just a thought. No need for a 3-page reply.

Thanks

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by jb7777 » February 3rd, 2004, 5:48 pm

The real ....you said it all...but it seems like the big picture is the devil (whites) pitting us against each other

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by jb7777 » February 3rd, 2004, 5:51 pm

Alonso, you are puerto rican right ? What do you consider yourself...black or latino?

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by E`S`T » February 3rd, 2004, 7:20 pm

jb7777 wrote:Alonso, you are puerto rican right ? What do you consider yourself...black or latino?
Thats a good question....

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Representando » February 3rd, 2004, 7:33 pm

Ok enough you all stop net bangin the Mexicans if you all so pissed about it then go to the streets and do something about it. Stop spending your life here complaining and go actually do something. Posting here won't change a damn thing people! All these posts are making the hispanics sound bad and the black and white people sound like they won't kill a fly. Not only are some hispanics racist, what about blacks and whites their are more racist white people than blacks or Mexicans. How bout we start bangin the blacks and whites now? Why go towards the hispanics? Just because we are brown doesn't mean we are in between and love everybody regardless their color, NO some of us are racist but the majority arent. Also about someones comment saying that the true hispanics are white...thats BS, the Aztecas weren't white and neither the mayan nor the Spanish who came and took over Mexico.
STOP NET BANGIN and get some REAL INFO people.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Young Nile » February 3rd, 2004, 8:41 pm

You say the Spanish that conquered most of the Americans were not White? Come on man dont act like your the only one here who can kick some historical knowledge.
The Spaniards out of European Spain are Caucasion simply put theres know way of getting around that. They look down on Mexicans because they are mixed with Indian blood. Go to Spain and see what they call you. They say that Mexicans are that of a mixed race one of Pure Spaniard and Indian.
So why you trying to kick some knowledge you need to get your facts straight.

I'm not prejudice especialy against Mexicans like some one said earlier about Blacks getting mad at other Blacks for trying to catorgorize Mexicans in the same breath of White suprimacist. That Black was "Me" I was always defending Mexicans saying "They are our Brothers" "We are both partners in the struggle" but as of late I have come to the painfull realization that a large percentage of Mexicans just dont like Black people and Samdoobie I cant agree with you about it being something from the streets or the pen because I notice it at the work place and so does my girl, my mom , my sister. I'm not say the Black people are perfect because by no means are we. But I can agree with you as far as here in LA it intensified in the early 90's. Right before the Riots. Blacks and Mexicans on the streets were starting to experience "Urban Turmoil" Then when the riots firts kicked of the Blacks were tripping on the Mexicans as well as Whites (in some ereas) before coming to gether.
During the riots is how my hood caught beef with the Dead End Harpies a beef that we still have to this day over ten years old.
So I agree with you there.

But the very notion of complete Mexican gangs having beef with Black people in general makes my blood boil after reading this post I'm tempted to go back to the hood and tell the homies that we should blast any T-Flat we see "on site" just because that is a gang based on Black Hatred.

I was talking to a Mexican the other day at a hamburger stand and he was telling me that if he was from a gang me and him wouldn't be having this conversation. I said "Why not" (already knowing the answer) he was like because you no mexican gang members dont like alot of Black people. I was like "Why not, we dont feel that way about youguys so why do you feel that way about us?" he couldn't give me a answer.

And About that prison S*** thats BS you mean to tell me that prison life is such a way of your cultrure that you cant leave Prison as Prison and seperate it from the Streets. I did, I spent 7 years up in that mutha been in many riots been stabbed by Mexicans hit with a bat and experience them team up with the White Boys to ride on us, and after all that when I got out I left that as just Penatentry politics and dealt with the streets in a totally different maner.

And for you homie from Texas talking about taking it to the streets. Bring yo A** to South Central L.A. and "take it to the streets" and see how long yo A@@ is breathing...................

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by blakman » February 3rd, 2004, 9:53 pm

To young nile, it also makes my blood boil man. It's like this mexicans are taking prison politics and all that race BS and bringing it to the street. It's like they can't differenciate between prison life and life outside the prison walls u now what a mean. For me it's all good u know, if you want to play like that, but let the brothers know so that it is at list out in the open, but it's when they play politics and say no we don't hate blacks and they try and cover it up that gets to me u know. Because right now alot of blacks are really starting to realise that there is a problem and I am not talking about gang members but normal everyday black folks. I hate doing this but i feel like i have to say this things because of all the things I have seen and the things that I have heard. As a younger man, I also thaught mexicans were in the same boat has us but as I grew up, I came to the realization that we really aren't in the same boat and that is the plain and simple truth.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Young Nile » February 3rd, 2004, 11:44 pm

I feel you blakman on that especialy when you say that Blacks as a whole are starting to wake up with the realization that whites are no longer our only eternal enemies but we are on the dawn of a new war with a new enemy. That goes far beyound prison and street gang BS.

At my job I'm the only Black in my department mostly everyone else is Hispanic and every now and then I find myself caught up in some racial BS. or some type of discrimination. My Girl, mom, and sister have all had discussions about this and they are females so it goes beyound prison and Street gang sh i t..........

Keep it real homie all this does is brings me stronger to the brotha standing next to me I'm starting to feel like I use to when I was in the Joint. Like looking at all the other Blacks like "we in this together"

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by blakman » February 4th, 2004, 2:08 am

Black people need start looking out for black people straight up. To many of us be diffending other races when shit goes down but when it's us the don't give flying fuck about what happens to us right, but as black people know already, what happens when white folk start threating them like shit, the come running back to the black community on we are the world BS . Well you weren't saying all that we need to stick together BS when you thought you was on top right. That's why I respect the NOI so much, because I know that the fight for us man and I hope that my brothers aren't believing all that BS that the white media be spitting. The say all that BS because they scared that the NOI can actually manage to get brothers stop pointing the gun at one another and start pointing the gun at the real enemy or enemie. That's why I get mad when I here shit like a nigga hating on me cause he fucked my hoes. I'm like are you serious, cause the last time I check the white judge and the white D.A was hatin on your black ass

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Representando » February 4th, 2004, 3:55 pm

Young Nile stop it with your stupid "the other day i was talking to a Mexican" please man shut up, all you want to do is make the Mexicans look bad. And what if I went to spain? So what? What the hell would they call me? I don't think they would call me anything, about a week ago I was watching this show in a Mexican channel (Toma Libre) and Facundo the guy who hosts the show was in spain wearing a shirt that said Mexico on it, he also told them he was Mexican and they were cool with him and happy to meet him. They never called him anthing, they treated him like everyone else.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by E`S`T » February 4th, 2004, 4:14 pm

It just seems to me like alot of brothers is on here taking pop shots at the Hispanic Raza. First off remember that there are over 30 million Hispanics in the U.S and not even a quarter of that number are gang members or racists. So what about the rest? I know for a fact that there are good Hispanics in the U.S that respect everyone no matter what the color of their skin. So when you weigh the good versus the bad, the good out weighs the negative. Remember that homies..peace

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Young Nile » February 4th, 2004, 7:52 pm

First off by no means do I want to come off as a rascist. I truly wish that the brotha's and Mexicans cant reverse the colision cource that we are on.
I know that there are alot of good Hispanics out there I know alot of them, hell growing up I had a lot of hispanic friends I remember back in high school people sometimes would refer to me as a chocolate cholo, thats why I'm in such amaze at what I have been noticing as of late.


I just call it how I see it......................

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by wcrockets » February 5th, 2004, 9:51 am

Representando wrote:Ok enough you all stop net bangin the Mexicans if you all so pissed about it then go to the streets and do something about it. Stop spending your life here complaining and go actually do something. Posting here won't change a damn thing people! All these posts are making the hispanics sound bad and the black and white people sound like they won't kill a fly. Not only are some hispanics racist, what about blacks and whites their are more racist white people than blacks or Mexicans. How bout we start bangin the blacks and whites now? Why go towards the hispanics? Just because we are brown doesn't mean we are in between and love everybody regardless their color, NO some of us are racist but the majority arent. Also about someones comment saying that the true hispanics are white...thats BS, the Aztecas weren't white and neither the mayan nor the Spanish who came and took over Mexico.
STOP NET BANGIN and get some REAL INFO people.
Umm.. actually the Spanish are white. Also, The Real (aka Malcom X.. lol just kidding) is right about the damage they inflicted over the unknown world 1500's.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 6th, 2004, 8:24 am

Representando wrote:Young Nile stop it with your stupid "the other day i was talking to a Mexican" please man shut up, all you want to do is make the Mexicans look bad. And what if I went to spain? So what? What the hell would they call me? I don't think they would call me anything, about a week ago I was watching this show in a Mexican channel (Toma Libre) and Facundo the guy who hosts the show was in spain wearing a shirt that said Mexico on it, he also told them he was Mexican and they were cool with him and happy to meet him. They never called him anthing, they treated him like everyone else.
*Look man, SPANISH ARE WHITE!!

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 6th, 2004, 11:31 am

This is in response to sondoobie specifically, and representado, wcrockets and others collectively:

-It just seems to me like alot of brothers is on here taking pop shots at the Hispanic Raza.

*It may seem that way, only because the "brothers" are addressing the hate that hate produced! The anger that's expressed is based on real life experiences with your "raza", and instead of being upset with the "brothers", why not talk to your "Hispanic Raza" about the hate and anger, that they have amongst themselves towards black people. This way, you would greatly minimize some of the venom you see here, being broached by black folks.

Instead, all you're doing is trying to pacify black folks anger, over legitimate concerns, by always highlighting the few non-racist mexicans, while not lifting your finger to condemn your own people's racism. Deep down, you know that most of the black venom being unleashed by black folks on this site, is based on righteous anger, unlike your Mexican brothers and sisters, whose much of their motivations are based on unjustified hatred, racism and white supremacy. You know the difference, and you “good” non-racist mexicans know exactly where to pull on the heartstrings of black people, because in Black folks hatred of Mexican people, if it exist, isn’t like your people’s hatred. Your people are primarily haters without a cause.

Now I'll admit that black folks aren't perfect, and you do have those that possess sincere racism and prejudices within their heart. I will also admit that there are black people that hate mexicans, HOWEVER-I do know that these black folk are in the minority! Why? Because the majority of black folks like mexicans, and will collectively defend mexicans against white folks, and black folks that try and down them, but it isn't that way for mexicans-not even those who pride themselves in being non-racist.

Most mexicans are racist against black folks (I would say about 65%), and those that are non-racist refuse to check the racism (with the exception of a few) within their own people, rather they fluff it off, because they either 1) don't care; 2) feel it's a necessary evil; or 3) don't feel that blacks are important enough to defend, because even though you may not harbor hatred in your heart personally towards Black folks, you do believe in much of the racist statements leveled at black people by mexicans, to where you're glad that someone's saying what you're not bold enough to admit to, and/or you feel that defending black folks is beneath you! TELL ME I'M LYING!!

-First off remember that there are over 30 million Hispanics in the U.S and not even a quarter of that number are gang members or racists.

*First off, you remember, that included in those statistics of Hispanics, you have those who are black, or of african descent. Grant it, many of them are racist against blacks, as well as feel that even if they are part black, or are fully black, that they are better than black americans (to me this is foolish thinking, because truth be told, blacks in this country, compared to black latinos, or those of african descent, have accomplished a lot in this country, and have achieved wondrous feats, that can stack up against any afro-latino, or those latinos of african descent's roster of achievements and accomplishments), but let's not try and muddy the issue! You know damn well know that the black folk in here aren't referring to other hispanics/latinos per se: THEY’RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT MEXICANS. That's a trick that the devil uses, in order to cause confusion.

Now I'll admit that mexicans are about 60 some percent of the total hispanic/latino population, however, the black folks on this board aren't talking about the whole hispanic/latino population! OH HELL NO! We're specifically talking about the most racist of all the hispanic/latino groups, which are primarily (not solely) those of the mestizo variety (amerindian and european), and especially mexicans! Mexicans are the most racist of the hispanic/latino variety, or just those who are of the mestizo variety, seeing as how there's really no difference between your people's racism, and that of white folks.

As I said before, even though whites and mexicans may have their interfamily squabbles and disagreements that are political, let it be known that on a grassroots level-WHITES AND MEXICANS GET ALONG FINE, with few exceptions! Black leaders are always deceiving black folks into believing that we should feel some sort of pain and solidarity, with our “downtrodden mexican brothers and sisters”; which is essentially blacks folks in general, whereas you have plenty of rank and file black folks picking up that same mantra. If you ask me it is foolish for Blacks to grieve for Mexicans, seeing as how the majority of Mexicans hate Black people, and don't rightfully give a damn about black interests!

Most blacks haven't realized that just because a "darker" race is discriminated against by "whitey", doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate into solidarity and unity with black folks! I can understand the logic of that thinking and its’ simplicity, but in the end, every other group sees and realizes that it's all about taking pride in your own tribe!!! The fact that Mexicans will accept white people into their family pool quicker than they would someone black, is evidence to me-that Mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans allow white folks into their gangs/organizations, and will not hardly (with few exceptions) accept any black folks into their gangs/organizations as freely, or as frequently, as they would white folks, is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans will join white supremacist organizations, and will ally with them, so freely and easily (something that black folks can never dream about doing; not that they should either), is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same. The fact that mexicans will utilize the exact same arguments, that white racists would use, in attacking black historical legacies, alleged inferiority, as well as physiological characteristics, is evidenced to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same in regards to racial outlook, etc.

Trust me, I can say more, and list more examples, but to close this angle of the discussion, let me just say that blacks have for far too long, had blinders covering their eyes, in regards to racial solidarity with mexicans, and other racial groups, just because they're non-white! Many black folks foolishly believe that just because a darker group is subjected to racism, that that darker person is therefore, automatically down with black folks, because they understand the "struggle". Well first of all, that darker non-black person may be "down" with the cause, or "struggle", but it's primarily with his or her OWN PEOPLE!!! That's what many black folks don't understand, particularly when you have some non-white person, who may, or may not have been subjected to white oppression, complain to black folks about "whitey" and the evils of the white "devil", knowing that they'd find a sympathetic ear amongst many black folks!

Why? Because in many (not all) black folks eyes, if they are going to discuss a racial enemy, they are solely going to focus on white folks, and white folks only: AND MEXICANS AND OTHER GROUPS KNOW THIS, BUT THEY WILL USE THIS ON BLACK FOLKS, IN ORDER TO GAIN A PARTICULAR ADVANTAGE OR OBJECTIVE!!!! HOWEVER, WHEN THOSE SAME FOLKS, BOO-HOOING TO BLACK FOLKS ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE AND THEIR RACISM TOWARDS THEM, GAIN AN ADVANTAGE, WHETHER IT BE POLITICALLY, NUMERICALLY, OR SOCIALLY, THEN TO HELL WITH BLACK FOLK, IT'S ALL ABOUT "LA RAZA"!! Now in many ways, to be honest with you, there's nothing wrong with being about your own people's interest. We all know that black folks can use some of that medicine. The real problem though, lies in the fact that mexicans and other minorities, will try and invoke feelings of guilt and shame, when black folks try to unite and solidify their people, and deal with issues and concerns, concerning their own black people, by stating that 1) blacks aren't the only ones having problems with racism in this society; 2) for black folks to only think about black issues, makes them no better than white people; and 3) blacks never assisted other minority groups, when it came to their own unique struggles against white supremacy, even though the laws that were passed under the Civil Rights Movement, spearheaded by blacks, assisted and aided other non-black minorities.

This is the tricknology that non-black minorities will try and use on black folks, just like racist white folks, in order to keep black folks from unifying, and tending to their own needs and concerns specifically. These groups don't see anything wrong with their talk of unity, and discussing their plight, without once mentioning black people into the equation, but will make black folks feel like heels, if they're not concerned, nor give honorary mention to the plight of other folks.

You see, and you sondoobie know this to be true, many mexicans believe (because we are talking about mexicans, however, if any other non-black person, who's non-white, want to join the discussion, I'll deal with their people specifically as well) that when blacks reach out to mexicans, or give them honorary mention, such as what Tupac, or other black public figures, and/or luminaries would do, mexicans would accuse these folks of trying to appeal to mexicans because 1) they're trying to use mexicans numbers, in their fight against white supremacy; 2) blacks don't like being black anyway, so they're trying to attach themselves onto a race, they deep down feel inferior to, just so that they can be considered one people with this group, instead of having the stigma of being black alone; 3) because blacks ought to ingratiate themselves towards mexicans, because black folks owe them, because they're mexican, and the little that black folks did accomplish, should really go to mexicans anyway, because mexicans are better than blacks; more worthy than blacks; therefore kissing up to mexicans is a natural response from blacks that ought to be done, seeing as how blacks are at the bottom of the racial totem pole anyway! Again, you sondoobie and other mexicans, KNOW I'M TELLING THE TRUTH!!

- So what about the rest? I know for a fact that there are good Hispanics in the U.S that respect everyone no matter what the color of their skin.

*This is true, but they are silent about the rest of their people that are racist! You see, folks in this country only want to discuss black racism, in regards to a minority having those type of feelings, but those who are classified as hispanics, or more specifically mexicans, are hardly ever critiqued. You telling me that there are good mexicans, is like telling black folks during the Civil Rights Movement that there are good white folks!! That's a moot point.

During the days of Jim Crow and segregation in the deep south, and elsewhere, you always had good white folk, that’s not even an issue. Yet despite the number of "good" white folks, IT STILL DIDN'T STOP THEIR BRETHREN THAT WERE RACIST, FROM OPPRESSING BLACK FOLKS!!! Hell, some of those "good" white folks were part of the problem!! Knowing that black folks, by and large, were overwhelmed by the hatred of white folks, and would consider it of high honor for a white person just to smile at them, more so than they would their own kind (black people)-these "good" white folks would pacify black folks by their own personal goodness, and at the same time tell those blacks who were oppressed by their white brethren that not all white folks are bad, so don't judge the whole group.

Now a lot of this sentiment is true, when it comes to judging a collective, however white people, just like mexicans, have those "good" folks amongst their kind, who will break bread with black folk, hang with black folk, have sex with black women (even men too), have children with black women (even men too), AND STILL BE RACIST AS HELL AGAINST THE COLLECTIVE BLACK COMMUNITY: or at the very least, hold latent racial feelings against black people, or are borderline racist! These borderline racist mexicans, or those that are latently racist, despite the fact that they don't consider themselves haters, will nevertheless not step in and lift their finger against the evil deeds of racism that their people will enforce.

Just like Strom Thurmond, who had sex with a black woman, thus producing a black child. Well, his daughter naturally claims that he wasn’t a racist, because her personal experiences with him, albeit strained, were positive. Hell, he would even financially support her, from time to time, but it nevertheless didn’t stop him, nor thwart him, from being the most rabid segregationist there was in the senate and congress, from the 40’s, 50’s, and much of the 60’s!!! This fool, during the mid 60’s, when his daughter was at least in her 40’s, debated vehemently against the passage of the Civil Rights Act, stating that the natural order of things was segregation, and also staged the longest filibuster in congressional history, when it came to voting on the Civil Rights Act. (In the 1940’s during the time that his daughter was in here 20’s, he ran as a dixiecrat for president, promoting a segregationist platform.)

So you may ask me, WHAT’S THE POINT? Well my point is, I’m sure that there were many blacks during the life of Strom Thurmond, during the time he was a rabid segregationist (or even after he “changed”), that can give you stories of personal contacts with Strom, that weren’t racist, but rather produced positive results, FOR THEM ONLY!!!!!! However, with that being the case, it never propelled Strom Thurmond from denouncing any of the racism that was occurring throughout his home state of South Carolina against blacks, COLLECTIVELY!!! Even though he may have had black acquaintances that he was “cool” with, he still didn’t lift a finger against his white brethren for not allowing blacks to vote in his state, by way of violent means; he never lifted a finger to stop the lynching of blacks, by his own people; etc. Oh don’t get me wrong, he may have assisted and aided individual blacks, yet he never spoke out against the racism that his own people made towards blacks.

Not that this was his intention, but many blacks, in dealing with these type of white people that are considered “good”, whether it’s real or imagined, can produce a sense of illusory and personal satisfaction, because the person who belongs to a group of people they want to think well of, is treating them nice. With many blacks, if they’re not careful, these type of “good” non-black people, will excuse, or even lessen the urgency, or load, in the psyches of black people, when it comes to fighting against racism and oppression-because they’ve been blindsided by “good” non-black people, whom are tacitly stating that my goodness towards you, is good enough to let the rest of my racist brethren off the hook, because now you see that we are all not like that! That may indeed be the case, however, many of those “good” White folks from back in the day, and “good” non-racist Mexicans today, did not, and do not, lift their voices in regards to their own people’s wrongdoings, because deep down they benefit, or will benefit, from the present status quo, or the status quo that is to come with large numbers.

-So when you weigh the good versus the bad, the good out weighs the negative. Remember that homies..peace

*On a personal level it does, because in the end, we are all humans, thus social creatures whose love and friendships can transcend race, or religion. But having said that, I do realize that as human beings, groups will naturally want to take pride in their tribe, and look out for the best interests of their own group, even though they may friends that belong to another ethnic, or racial group. Just don’t make black folk feel guilty about having racial pride amongst their own group, or make them feel guilty about including other minority groups within their discussions of racism and oppression, seeing as how you damn well know that those same groups that criticize blacks for not including them, would never voluntary include black folks into their discussions!

Finally, I still will stand by the position that Mexican racists are the new white supremacists, and the running, unspoken joke is-THAT BLACK FOLKS HAVEN’T FIGURED THIS OUT YET! Black folks are still in a haze of believing that just because you’re dark, and non-white, that this automatically makes you an eternal ally, and that their struggles are automatically intertwined with one another. All other groups know this not to be case, but will imply that it is the case, when it suits their advantage.

Again, I’m not preaching that black folks ought to hate Mexicans, or any other racial group, just because they’re Mexicans, unlike what your own people think. What I’m teaching is that black folks ought to defend themselves against the predators within, and without their community! Seeing as how we’re on this website dealing with gang issues, and the fact that many of you folks are from Cali, as well as myself, I felt that the issue of Mexican and Black folks, and the rivalries that occur collectively across the board, which trickle down to the gang tensions, was and is appropriate! How so? Because you and I know that Mexican gangs, despite their existing for other functions, primarily are haters of black people collectively, and that part of their function is to rid black gangs of their existence, as well as black people throughout California and the southwest altogether-whether they are part of a gang, or not!

The majority of Mexican gangs, particularly in areas where Mexicans dominate in numbers, are racist and white supremacist in their proclivities, and their targeting of black gang members, or the general black populace, is tantamount to what white racists use to do in general, but now have a foot soldier/ally, who will continue, and take off where they (white folks) stopped. Now mind you, I’m not saying that blacks are angels, and I don’t mind retaliation against anyone, regardless of what race, if that person killed a relative, or fellow gang member. I understand and appreciate the code of the streets.

But here’s the difference: what’s fueling black gangs, and why they do what they do, even against Mexican gangs, is somewhat different than what Mexican gangs do, and their outlook towards black people. Mexican gangs, and part of the recent foundation for their existence and agenda, are to kill and annihilate blacks in total. A Mexican gang member, in my estimation, is no better than a nazi lowrider, or a skinhead gang, because-AGAIN-one of their ultimate and collective goals are to contain and annihilate the broader black community. That’s why I believe that in dealing with Mexican gang members in general, with unspoken genocidal designs on the black community, don't deal with them, the same way you would deal with ordinary gang squabbles, rather, deal with them the way you would a nazi, skinhead, or klansman, if they were in your midst and sights-because there really is no difference.

Up until now, many Black gangs have viewed Mexican gangs as mere nuisances, who, if they did have any insight on the social structure of racism and how it’s manifested, looked at the struggles between blacks and Mexicans, and the hatred thereof, as something that is orchestrated by white folks. That ultimately may be true (I use to think that way too), however, mexicans aren’t children, and in the end, they know whom they like, and hate-and why they feel the way they feel! Now black folks may be deceived into thinking that mexicans are pawns in a greater game, orchestrated by whites, but despite that being the case, the fact of the matter is-I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HERE AND NOW!!

The fact of the matter is, white racists and Mexican racists have alliances with one another, and they allow one another, into each other’s gangs/organizations, where they freely intermingle with one another, and hardly ever cross into each other’s domain. But Mexicans will fight Black folks and Asians, and will try to annihilate and contain them, but will never battle or war with Armenian gangs, the Russian mafia, nor white supremacists. If no one can’t see the connection between Mexican racists, their gang structures throughout the southwest, and whom they bed with, and will allow in their bed-THEN THEY’RE LIVING IN DENIAL!!

Black gangs must defend their turf, or just their lives (to hell with territory) against Mexican gang members, who wish to destroy their very existence, throughout the southwest. The same ferocity that black folks potentially have in attacking a person if they found out this cat was a nazi, or white supremacist, ought to be the mindset that blacks carry with them, when it comes to dealing with Mexican gang members, who desire to terminate their very lives, whether they’re in a gang, or not. Or just kill a racist Mexican, or Mexican gang member, who seeks your destruction, with the same passion and fury, the way you would a fellow black, who was a gang member, or just a civilian whom you feel dissed you the wrong way. If you can feel hatred towards your own brother, to where you become an expert killer in taking him (or even her) out-THEN WHY CAN’T YOU FEEL THAT SAME WAY TOWARDS MEXICAN GANG MEMBERS, SEEING AS HOW THE MAJORITY OF THEM HATE BLACK PEOPLE ANYWAY, AS WELL AS HAVE AS APART OF THEIR MOTIVATION FOR EXISTENCE, THE KILLING, CONTAINMENT AND ANNIHILATION OF BLACK FOLKS!

Again, I’m not telling black folks to go out and wantonly kill and exterminate Mexicans just because they’re mexican, the way many Mexicans in real life, as well as on the internet are suggesting, in regards to black folks. Hell, I’ve been on many Mexican websites, where they not only seriously discuss the extermination of black folks, but they also discuss (not all) allying with white folks, in their destruction of black people. You even have white racists on those sites that talk about Mexican nationalists and White nationalists linking up, and killing off black people. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying all Mexicans feel this way, even the racist ones, but the fact that you folks tolerate such a movement in your midst, and try to shrug it off, as if it’s nothing to concern yourself with, by tugging at Black folks heartstrings, by reminding them of how there are good Mexicans out there-STILL DOESN’T HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE BAD ONES THAT ARE PRESENTLY OUT THERE, AND WHOSE DESIRE IS TO DESTROY THE BLACK PRESENCE!!

(Again, I’ll reiterate, I’m only talking about defense (or an offense in retaliation, that was created by an offensive act perpetrated), unlike many Mexicans, who deal strictly in offensive measures.)

Black gangs, or just black folk in general aren’t aware of this, and many of them don’t want to, for many different reasons. But I’ll admit to what is there, and don’t care who likes it. In other words, and I put this out collectively, not individually: YOU’RE NOT DEALING WITH A MAN THAT DOESN’T KNOW YOUR PEOPLE’S NATURE, NOR THEIR DAMN DIRTY WAYS!!!
Last edited by TheReal on February 6th, 2004, 11:52 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 6th, 2004, 11:32 am

Young Nile wrote:First off by no means do I want to come off as a rascist. I truly wish that the brotha's and Mexicans cant reverse the colision cource that we are on.
I know that there are alot of good Hispanics out there I know alot of them, hell growing up I had a lot of hispanic friends I remember back in high school people sometimes would refer to me as a chocolate cholo, thats why I'm in such amaze at what I have been noticing as of late.


I just call it how I see it......................
*You're 100% right, in all of what you've said!

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by stateraised2000 » February 6th, 2004, 11:33 am

damm real, another one of your long tirades? give us a break, you already made your point...

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by wcrockets » February 6th, 2004, 12:55 pm

He's only got his one view currently you know and it is is a militant one, in my opinion. He's here to whip it up as best he can, again in this reader's personal opinion. But he's wrong in some areas though right in others. I wonder if he could admit if he was wrong about something? (Maybe he could I don't know). I wonder what his "solution" is to the "problem" he's arguing for and if that "solution" is a violent one? I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).

One area he's wrong in is his perspective of white and mexican love on the street. Yes they get along somewhat better some of the time with each other than either group does with blacks, but the truth is, they been fighting like cats and dogs in SoCal since at least the 30's. But if you're coming from a black perspective you probably won't see that. You'll just see, well, what he's saying.

One area he's right in is his perspective of mexican racism amongst some mexicans. It does seem as if that has really grown up during the 90's. I can't agree with his judgemental perspective, in my opinion (as if black militancy is not part of the problem), that it is all one sided. We could talk, for example, about the empathy factor of many Muslims toward terrorists. My point is that ALL people empathize naturally with what they believe in and tend to group together by race.

All that aside, I guess the real problem I have with his approach, in my opinion, is that it is negative. He throws inflammatory words around quite a bit without realizing that there are "devils" (if you follow the definition he seems to be expousing regarding this word) in all races including his. More importantly, it's all lopsided. He hasn't addressed the presence of any "angels" yet. His negativism is a dominant force in his argument, in my opinion, which seeks to minimize the progress that's been made over the years and the sacrifice of the "angels" that made it. The truth is that when the racists are all added up and counted together they are but a minority.

And his Southern argument for good white people doesn't address the sheer number of white people who joined, marched, fought and died over the issue. Really the power was in the hands of a few landowners who had legitimized that which never could be legitimized. And the war these unrepentent started evil organizations and spread false information which roped in some of the unhappy lower class whites. Many many good people of all races, including at the time younger white southeners, were responsible for the Civil Rights movement's victories. I don't say victory because the victory is not fully won yet. Personally, I agree with Martin Luther King.

Also, it's interesting that every single one of his posts to date are in threads entitled "Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2," "Re: If B's and C's united, could they take out Mexican gangs," "Re: WHAT DOES 13 MEAN," "Re: CHOLOS AND CHOLAS," "Re: Los Angeles County Jail? [posting his, in my opinion, is his mexican=white racist argument]", and lastly "Man, cut the BS! [talking about the clothes thing]."

The Real, are you obsessed with your argument? You seem to be pursuing it almost single mindly here, as best I can tell.
Last edited by wcrockets on February 6th, 2004, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by Young Nile » February 6th, 2004, 1:28 pm

A wrockets I dont know if your Black or not but if you are your no better than others..........

You see thats what I hate and it's been going on forever in our history when deeling other people.

Black folks cant stick together...........Like crabs in a bucket.

If I disagree with something the real said I wouldn't come out in opposition to him in the middle of these discussions I would probaly email him or just keep it to myself........

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by stateraised2000 » February 6th, 2004, 1:30 pm

crocketts, your a moderator and have the button to check his IP address. you can always check that IP address against anyone elses to see if he's somebody else...

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by wcrockets » February 6th, 2004, 1:43 pm

Naw I'm a white guy. And this is a discussion forum for all races to discuss things as individuals. Those who line up by race and back whatever someone is saying because they are of the same race are missing the point of this in my opinion.

SR: I practically never do that. People like their privacy you know.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by stateraised2000 » February 6th, 2004, 1:59 pm

i only put that solution cause you put:

""I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).""

you know me and you are cool crockets but why would you even put that and have people wondering now if you werent going to check it out? no offense crockets, im not coming at you wrong, just wondering...

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by wcrockets » February 6th, 2004, 2:36 pm

lol.

Everyone: The Real and I are cool as far as I am concerned. We're just in a discussion. That's what the board is for is to discuss and trade info. Sure I'm pointing out inconsistencies I think I see and trying to discern his motives currently and agreeing where I believe he's right and disagreeing where I think he's wrong. So what? You should too me same as him and visa versa.

SR: I ask because I'm hoping he answers my questions truthfully. I'll accept his word at this point. Why wouldn't I? I'm not accusing anyone of anything just asking. Just because I have the ability to look up something doesn't mean I'm going too. He's not doing anything wrong. We're in a discussion. We're discussing.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by InterestedGuy » February 6th, 2004, 2:41 pm

Well stated wcrockets. The real has some valid points but like you said he just takes things to the extreme and ends up alienating others.

He argues that hispanics or latinos are 'silent' about racism in their own ranks, but that is simply not true as state raised and sam doobie would be the first ones here (and have for that matter) checked on posters for their ignorance. Real seems to only take examples that suit his agendas. He can go to a website and look at what some ignoramuses wrote about blacks and whatnot, but how is that representative of anybody?

I remember back in the mid 90's, many asian immigrant families were viciously harrased in the housing projects up in the Bay Area. I'm not talking about straight name calling, I'm talking about assaults and property damage, being intimidated to the point that they were forced to move out. Some even had the gall to say that it wasn't racist or hateful in nature. Did I see the black gang members who lived in that area speak out against this hate crime, or the black politicians? No I didn't.

Or an even better example, the L.A. riots. I posted this out previously, but EME higher ups (from a newspaper article I read) were particularly incensed that black gangs were indiscriminately beating up latino civilians out on the streets. I don't recall the mayor of L.A. calling for an end to the hate crimes committed by black gang members against innocent civilians. I might also mention, on the flip side, that many black civilians risked their own lives to protect the lives of latinos, whites, asians, during the riots.

I'm not the biggest expert on gangs/gang politics, but it has to be more than coincidence that race relations between black and latino gangs got worse since the riots and have never improved. A lot of it has to do with power and money, and this had to have solidified gangs based on racial lines.

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Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

Unread post by TheReal » February 6th, 2004, 3:10 pm

This is in response to wcrockets:

-He's only got his one view currently you know and it is is a militant one, in my opinion.

*No, I have many viewpoints, which leads back to one point, or center.

-He's here to whip it up as best he can, again in this reader's personal opinion.

*If you're claiming that I'm a flamethrower for my point of view, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT! There's no shame in my game, as it relates to the information I'm putting forth. However, if you're saying that I have an agenda that I'm trying to put forth, THEN YOU'RE WRONG!!! I address the issues that are of interest to me: nothing more, nothing less! And you know what? I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ATTACH MYSELF ONTO AN ARGUMENT THAT I FEEL IS INTERESTING, OR THAT PIQUES MY CURIOSITY!

-But he's wrong in some areas though right in others. I wonder if he could admit if he was wrong about something? (Maybe he could I don't know).

*Hell yeah I can admit to being wrong in certain areas! Did I not say that I ultimately wish for you and other folks to be right, and me wrong, for the cause of greater humanity? Just read over all my information!

- I wonder what his "solution" is to the "problem" he's arguing for and if that "solution" is a violent one?

*Part of my solution will only entail violence, if needs be. In other words, I believe in forming defense militias against predators within the black race, as well as without, similar to the black panthers. The black panthers formed their organization in order to deal with police brutality, similar to the deacons for defense in Louisiana-even though they focused mainly on white supremacists in general.

I'm shocked that you folks haven't figured that out yet! I'm not advocating violence for the sake of violence, rather for self-defense purposes!! The fact that you have mexican gangs, along with their white allies, making war on black gangs and people in general, that is outside the framework of normal gang confrontations, but are leaking into the areas of racism and genocide, only compels me to argue for unity amongst black gangs: not in necessarily giving up their identity or space, but rather a unity of purpose against mexican gangs, who seek their annihilation SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK!

Remember, many blacks view mexican gangs and them fighting blacks, as just simple gang warfare, whereas mexicans that are fighting black folks, SEE IT AS A RACE WAR! So why am I the bad guy, for asking black gangs to reassess their enemy (mexican gang members, in this instance), and view them as a group of folks hell-bent on genocidal purposes, with the philosophy of "OPEN SEASON ON ALL N!GGERS!" Why am I wrong for telling black folks, that when you deal with such a beast, that you should decapitate that devil, and hang them on a cross as a symbol to any devil that tries to cause genocide and containment of their people!!

When this country goes to war with other nations, and try to kill their enemies, in the name of national defense, and it is justified, then why can't I, or other blacks do the same-seeing as how mexican racists and white supremacists agendas for black folks, aren't all too pretty! Hell, at least I'm talking about striking back, when attacked, unlike many (not all) mexican racists and white supremacists! Their collective philosophy is-AGAIN: "Kill a n!gger, no matter gang affiliation, or not!" And what I'm arguing is that it will get worst, particularly in the southwestern portions of the U.S. for black folks-JUST WAIT AND SEE!!

-I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).

*Nope! And why would you think that?????

-One area he's wrong in is his perspective of white and mexican love on the street. Yes they get along somewhat better some of the time with each other than either group does with blacks, but the truth is, they been fighting like cats and dogs in SoCal since at least the 30's. But if you're coming from a black perspective you probably won't see that. You'll just see, well, what he's saying.

*Noooooooooooo...did I not admit that whites and mexicans have interfamily squabbles amongst themselves?? I think I can recall me saying this on several occasions! True enough, you will have skirmishes between the two groups, now and then, HOWEVER, these two groups can still find it within the other group racially to unite on the points that I had addressed, from my previous post-and you, and other folks know this!!!

The thing these two groups have in common, besides being allies, and being members in each other’s organizations, IS THERE HATRED AND GENOCIDAL DESIGNS UPON THE BLACK COMMUNITY!!!! Let's be real about this!!!!

-One area he's right in is his perspective of mexican racism amongst some mexicans.

*No, I'm right in the sense that MOST mexicans are racist, as it stands now in 2003!

-It does seem as if that has really grown up during the 90's.

*What are you trying to say here?

-I can't agree with his judgemental perspective, in my opinion (as if black militancy is not part of the problem), that it is all one sided.

*Well, that's your opinion, but in my book, I feel that I covered all areas...

-We could talk, for example, about the empathy factor of many Muslims toward terrorists. My point is that ALL people empathize naturally with what they believe in and tend to group together by race.

*Man, did I not address this in the previous post that you're replying to?? Contrary to what you may believe, this statement of yours isn't contradicting any of what I said! (Just reread the post of mine that he has in question.)

-All that aside, I guess the real problem I have with his approach, in my opinion, is that it is negative. He throws inflammatory words around quite a bit without realizing that there are "devils" (if you follow the definition he seems to be expousing regarding this word) in all races including his.

*Well I'm sorry if I'm not discussing this particular topic with a smile, or with a less sense of urgency, that others may want me to possess! I don't walk in the spirit of non-violence, nor do I wish to be a good "negro"! And as far as the word "devil", well if you were to read carefully, I'm not calling a whole race of people "devils", just those who manifest certain characteristics.

Another thing, you're right: BLACKS CAN BE DEVILS TOO, BASED ON HOW I'M USING THE WORD! Having said that, black folks aren't intentionally trying to annihilate, contain, and bring under their feet, as well as excise the presence of mexicans and white folks from this country, whereas you have plenty of mexicans and white folks, with these same genocidal designs upon the black community! Tell me, I'm lying!! And these are the devils that I'm attacking!!

-More importantly, it's all lopsided.

*More importantly, YOU'RE WRONG! What it is, is that your assessment of my arguments is "all lopsided", because in the end, you're seeing what you want to see, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT I HAD WRITTEN!

-He hasn't addressed the presence of any "angels" yet.

*This statement right here just let's me know that you're trying to engage in sarcasm, based on certain remarks of mine-but it doesn't work. Here's a suggestion: go back and read the context and subtext, of why I had used the word "angels", in my discussion. If you don't, then you'll be relegated to what you're doing now-taking a text, out of context, which is a pretext (falsely stated purpose)!

-His negativism is a dominant force in his argument, in my opinion, which seeks to minimize the progress that's been made over the years and the sacrifice of the "angels" that made it.

*Say man, if you're getting metaphysical and esoteric with a brother, please calm down. Right now, you appear to be so bent out of shape, from what I've said, to where you're placing quotation marks around the word "angels", as if my use of the word, fell under your definition, of how you're using it!!

-The truth is that when the racists are all added up and counted together they are but a minority.

*I hope you're right, but with this younger generation-I don't know...

-And his Southern argument for good white people doesn't address the sheer number of white people who joined, marched, fought and died over the issue.

*You know why? BECAUSE I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE GOOD WHITE FOLKS THAT ASSISTED BLACK PEOPLE WITH THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS!!! The context of my discussion was talking about those "good" white, or mexican folks, who claim not to be haters and racists, yet they tolerate, and live easily and comfortably, with the racism coming from their people, and how their people exercise that racism, in order to oppress and suppress, the movement of others: THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO!!!

Within the context, of the issue I was addressing, I didn't make a logical miscalculation! Okay, if you want me to admit that there were white folks that helped black people attain many of their rights-I WILL ADMIT THAT, if it makes you feel good, but know this: THAT WASN'T THE POINT, NOT EVEN THE SUBTEXT, OF WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING!! (For further clarification of what I was getting at, just reread the post, this man has a problem with.)

-Really the power was in the hands of a few landowners who had legitimized that which never could be legitimized. And the war these unrepentent started evil organizations and spread false information which roped in some of the unhappy lower class whites.


*Look, I'm not foolish enough to think that "lower class whites" were total victims, of the hegemony machine, that was in operation by their elitist white brethren. Truth be told, many of your "lower class whites" had a vested interest in keeping blacks beneath them, in the sense that-IF THEY COULDN'T BE BETTER THAN BLACK FOLKS, THEN WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM!!!!

White elitists in the south didn't teach these lower class whites about racism, that dilemma started from the ground up! White folk were collectively racist in the south, because they were products of white supremacy and white privilege!! Another thing-it doesn't matter if many of their elitist brethren were pulling strings, in order to maintain the status quo, because 1) many of the lower class whites would rather have their own kind (white folks) being in a position of power oppressing them, which essentially gave them hope, or self-esteem despite their circumstances-WHITE FOLKS WERE STILL IN CONTROL; and 2) lower class whites, despite their "exploitation" by the hands of their elitist brethren, were some willing “exploitees!!” In other words, they hated black folks so intensely, despite allegedly being pawns in a larger game, so to speak-THAT MANY OF THEM HATED BLACK FOLKS, MORE SO THAN THEY LOVED THEIR OWN CHILDREN!! And you know this!

-Many many good people of all races, including at the time younger white southeners, were responsible for the Civil Rights movement's victories.

*Most of the whites that joined the Civil Rights movement, were from up north, and they were primarily jewish. Now this isn't to say that whites from the south didn't help in the Civil Rights movement, rather, I'm just adding a bit of historical perspective to your statements.

Secondly, when you say that "many good people of all races" helped to bring about "Civil Rights movement's victories", don't make it sound as if there were a drove of asians and mexicans, heading down south, in order to help black folks get the right to vote, etc. Now I will admit, folks like Joan Baez, and probably a few other non-blacks, who were non-white, aided and abetted black folks during this time, but it was miniscule in comparison to white folks.

White folks were the only non-black group (and I'm including jews, even though many whites and others, don't view jews as being white) in droves, to really assist black folks back in the day!

-I don't say victory because the victory is not fully won yet. Personally, I agree with Martin Luther King.

*I hear ya'.

-Also, it's interesting that every single one of his posts to date are in threads entitled "Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2," "Re: If B's and C's united, could they take out Mexican gangs," "Re: WHAT DOES 13 MEAN," "Re: CHOLOS AND CHOLAS," "Re: Los Angeles County Jail? [posting his, in my opinion, is his mexican=white racist argument]", and lastly "Man, cut the BS! [talking about the clothes thing]."

*Uh...as I said earlier: I HAVE A RIGHT TO ADDRESS THE TOPICS THAT I FIND INTERESTING, AND WHY DOES IT THREATEN YOU??

-The Real, are you obsessed with your argument? You seem to be pursuing it almost single mindly here, as best I can tell.

*Would you ask a soldier on the battlefield, whose duty is to defend his ground, and possibly the people he’s looking after, whether or not he was obsessed? Would you ask the farmer whose land is overrun with insects eating up his produce, if he were obsessed, if he decided to use pesticides on his fruits and vegetables? Or better yet, would you have asked Martin Luther King if he were obsessed with his drive, to bring about freedom for black people, whether you agreed, or disagreed with King’s ultimate goals? Of course you wouldn’t, so why ask such a question of me?

As I said earlier, I, like anyone else here, am addressing topics that interest me personally, no more, no less. Trust me, it’s not a mystery!!

What’s more important is the integrity of my information, and the truth that is contained therein. Peace.

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