Nortenos in Southern California?

[TheReal]

Do you know any Nortenos?

Have you hung out with any Nortenos?

Why do you care?

Answer those questions?

Why are you a scrap sympathizer?

Why you get all feminine acting like a female..

Get all butt hurt like you want a hug..

yea i do know a norteno..One of my family is..and he acts black..just like all his friends..

Im not close to him so i dont talk to him...

So answer the question..Why do nortenos act black?

*It's interesting how folks accuse nortenos of acting black, just because nortenos supposedly ally themselves with black organizations, when surenos their damn selves, have adopted-especially today-black accoutrements, such as the music they listen to and perform; the way they walk; gestures and mannerisms; dress; vocal tonalities; the slang they use; etc.-FROM BLACK PEOPLE!!

Accusing nortenos of acting "black," is just another way of attacking nortenos for having a working alliance with blacks, therefore shaming them, and psychologically intimidating them, into tearing apart that alliance, because of the great "sin" of being mistaken for acting like a "nigger", or being a "nigger lover." And the stealthy thing about it, this attack upon nortenos is masked under the innocent covering of a question, so that it may appear harmless as a kitten, even though it's really an attack, as venomous as a viper: I am amazed folks can't see this!

In the end, it's all mind games...

[TheReal]

StillNoScript said:

"In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you look at some of the Sureno gangs in South Los Angeles, the ones that live and grew up around Black people, you'll find them using a lot of traditionally Black slang, listening to Rap music, and basically acting black from time to time. I'm not from L.A., and I don't know this for sure, but I'm willing to bet on it."

My response:

*You are 100% correct on this assessment, and that's what I've been saying for the longest. Starting from the mid 90's on, when South Central L.A began to receive a large influx of mexicans, or latinos/hispanics of the mestizo variety, you began to see ese's adopt, codify and mimic, certain demeanors, dispositions, walks, speech, and overall aura, from the black South Central gang bangers, whose culture they (mexicans) entered into.

The South Central ese gang banger, isn't the same as the ese gang member from the early 90's, 80's, on down to the 70's (this is the first decade I can truly remember, that's why I stop here). Right now, the South Central ese gang banger has parlayed many black south central flavor, while incorporating it into their own.

Any unbiased observer on the outside looking in, can honestly see this.

[Dr. Wagner, Jr.]

Lincoln Rockwell was the head of the "American Nazi Party." Norman Rockwell was a painter for the Staurday Evening Post. One was a complete idiot, the other is known for cheesy looking paintings of kids who look like Opie from Andy Griffith.
Black population in LA is shrinking as has been for the last decade. Don't know about the "white" folks but there seem to be enough moving in from back east. I don't see any meaning there, just an observation.
As I remember Chicanos/Raza came up with lowriders, Pendeltons, chinos, white t-shirts/wifebeaters/bandanas, calo ese style of talking, and basically the whole SoCal gangbanging culture was founded/influenced by Mexican Americans going back since before WWII. I see black rappers in videos driving lowriders that were undoubtedly "Mexican" (L.A. Chicano, not from Mexico) 20 years ago, and nobody screams ripoff. Hell, the midwestern kids that buy those records probably think its a "black thing." I hear a lot of Raza listening to rap and using "black" slang, but I don't think they're "acting black." Still, I'd rather hear rancheras.
As long as I can remember, most Mexicans in/from Mexico don't want anything to do with cholo/gangbanger lifestyle.
You see a lot of cowboy hats and hear ranchera music and see lucha libre in Compton.
You see black, white and Mexican kids hanging out together in some neighborhoods in the Southbay.
And yes, Joe "Pegleg" Morgan was supposedly born in San Pedro, a "little" city down here in the Harbor Area.

[StillNoScript]

Hell, the midwestern kids that buy those records probably think its a "black thing."

And that is precisely where you can look at the media, and the entertainment industry's effect on the misunderstanding of cultural gang origins.

[DC]

Look Nortenos have there own style as do the Surenos, no style is better or worse its just different because of where they are from..

[TheReal]

To Dr. Wagner:

-Lincoln Rockwell was the head of the "American Nazi Party." Norman Rockwell was a painter for the Staurday Evening Post. One was a complete idiot, the other is known for cheesy looking paintings of kids who look like Opie from Andy Griffith.

*My bad in the name category, but folks know I was somewhere around the corner...

-Black population in LA is shrinking as has been for the last decade.

*What's the point?

-Don't know about the "white" folks but there seem to be enough moving in from back east. I don't see any meaning there, just an observation.

*Thanks for the clarification...

-As I remember Chicanos/Raza came up with lowriders,

*Never really disputed that, even though there are other interpretations of that history.

-Pendeltons,

*Mexicans didn't come "up" with Pendleton shirts, WHITE FOLKS CREATED THIS STYLE OF CLOTHING. Furthermore, when this shirt came out in the early part of the last century, as well as onwards-men of all races wore this type of shirt, especially blue collar, or field workers, despite the race.

If anything, one can argue that mexicans/chicanos codified this shirt, in order to represent themselves in regards to gang culture, but they hardly originated this type of shirt.

-chinos,

*Again, mexicans/chicanos didn't originate these style of shorts. To be quite honest with you, you had white boys in England, and across europe, wearing these types of shorts, with their blazers: especially those from the upper class, attending private, or boarding schools.

As a matter of fact, mexicans/chicanos didn't even codify this one, because from what I can remember, during the 70's, and especially the 80's, down South, some black folks were wearing these type/style of shorts. Needless to say, in those areas, there were hardly any mexicans to be found for miles around.

-white t-shirts/

*Again, mexicans were not the first to wear white t-shirts, nor did they come up with this style of garb. This is strictly revisionist history. White t's is apart of americana fashion! I remember old black male relatives of mine, during the 70's, and early 80's, who were in their 60's and 70's, down south, out west, or wherever, wearing khakis and white t's. Why? Because that was just the style of the era, from whence these folks came from. Just because mexicans/chicanos really took to this retro style of dressing, doesn't mean that mexicans/chicanos originated the white t's, which is false.

Secondly on this point, black folks within the hip-hop culture wear their white t's real long-some almost to the knees-where mexicans/chicanos would traditionally tuck them in their pants, or wouldn't hardly wear them that long in the least bit, if they did wear them outside their trousers.

-wifebeaters/

*Again, read the above response. I have photos of old black men from the south, midwest, and have even watched "race" films from the 30's, and 40's, where black men were sporting these type of shirts. So no, your point again, is making little sense.

-bandanas,

*Bandannas didn't originate with mexicans/chicanos! Again, you're revising history. Bandannas originated in India:

"Derived from the Sanskrit word, bandhna, or bandhana, meaning "tying", bandannas were first imported from India around 1700."

http://www.twilightbridge.com/hobbies/f ... ecktie.htm

And mexicans were hardly the first to sport this garb first, outside of folks from europe, etc.

Furthermore, black folks have always had a history of wearing head scarves of various types, including the bandanna! Black slaves, and field workers, in subsequent generations would wear this type of rag, and didn't need mexicans/chicanos influence, in order for them to rock this piece.

I can go further with this, but folks get the picture. If not, I'll deal with it in a rebuttal. With that said, let's move on...

-calo ese style of talking,

*When have blacks, and most of america, used calo, or even incorporate calo into their speech. If anything, mexicans/chicanos who do indeed speak calo, also utilize black slang words and other verbal expressions, into their lexicon of subculture speech, and you, and everyone else reading this, knows this.

-and basically the whole SoCal gangbanging culture was founded/influenced by Mexican Americans going back since before WWII.

*And basically folks would be wrong if they believed that, without taking into account that every racial group living in close proximity of one another, will be influenced by each other as well. Furthermore, you had black gangs in L.A. as well, going back before WWII, and secondly, pachucos garnered much of their style of "cool" and swagger, as well as style of clothing (zoot-suits, etc.) from black folks style at the time, even incorporating black slang words, expressions, gaits, amongst other things.

Now mind you, I'm not denying that mexicans/chicanos didn't incorporate their own cultural ethos into that which they were arrogating, because on the same token, black gangbangers in L.A. have done the same thing, by adding their distinct cultural, South Central flavor, when it comes to gang lifestyle, which has nothing to do with mexican origins in the least bit: a flavor that many eses who moved into the south central zone within the last decades, have adopted wholesale, but now only turn around and lie to the world about how the black style their emulating, really came from mexicans/chicanos-which is bogus...

-I see black rappers in videos driving lowriders that were undoubtedly "Mexican" (L.A. Chicano, not from Mexico) 20 years ago, and nobody screams ripoff.

*Because it isn't a "ripoff," seeing as how lowriders came about way before 20 years ago, and secondly, black folks been lowriding since the 50's, longer than chicanos been in the rap game. Hell, as a matter of fact, black folks are the ones to call these types rides, "lowriders," in the 60's, whereas before, mexicans/chicanos would refer to lowriders as "ramflas."

So if anything, black folks have earned their right to drive lowriders, seeing as how mexicans/chicanos have taken a plethora of cultural influences from black folks, on such a wholesale level.

-Hell, the midwestern kids that buy those records probably think its a "black thing."

*It has become a black thing, by way of codification, just like the zoot-suit, in the minds of many folks in this country, including your precious midwest, is a mexican/chicano thing, because of the pachuco codification.

-I hear a lot of Raza listening to rap and using "black" slang, but I don't think they're "acting black."

*Well, would you say the same thing about black folks speaking calo (as if that's a widespread phenomenon), and driving lowriders, trying not to act mexican/chicano?

-Still, I'd rather hear rancheras.

*Man, you can help yourself with that music...

-As long as I can remember, most Mexicans in/from Mexico don't want anything to do with cholo/gangbanger lifestyle.

*I guess that's good to know?

-You see a lot of cowboy hats and hear ranchera music and see lucha libre in Compton.

*Okay?

-You see black, white and Mexican kids hanging out together in some neighborhoods in the Southbay.

*That's good, I guess...

-And yes, Joe "Pegleg" Morgan was supposedly born in San Pedro, a "little" city down here in the Harbor Area.

*I've often wondered if Joe "Pegleg" Morgan was black, and was in the same settings and surroundings, performing the same deeds, would he have gotten the same type of love from the mexican/chicano community, or any traction at all...

[Dr. Wagner, Jr.]

To The Real:

My original post was a series of responses to other’s posts (yours included).

-Black population in LA is shrinking as has been for the last decade.
*What's the point?

# My response to your previous post where you stated that “white folks realize that their numbers are dwindling in a piecemeal fashion, to where they have to become less rigid in their judgements, when it comes to bestowing "whiteness" on certain folks…” My point is that I don’t think white folks, at least from the middle class on up, are feeling like their numbers are dwindling reference any other group. However, when I drive up Figueroa or down South Broadway and through West Adams I see a lot of signs in Spanish and Korean, in what were formerly mainly black neighborhoods, leading me to conclude that black folks are selling and moving elsewhere.

-Pendeltons,

*Mexicans didn't come "up" with Pendleton shirts, WHITE FOLKS CREATED THIS STYLE OF CLOTHING. Furthermore, when this shirt came out in the early part of the last century, as well as onwards-men of all races wore this type of shirt, especially blue collar, or field workers, despite the race.
If anything, one can argue that mexicans/chicanos codified this shirt, in order to represent themselves in regards to gang culture, but they hardly originated this type of shirt.

- Agreed 100%, If it seemed like I was implying that Mexicans invented Pendletons or the other items of clothing I mentioned, that was not my intent. The different items of clothing mentioned were what were associated with Chicanos/Mexicans when I was growing up in Southern California in the early 70s. By “Chinos” I mean the khakis, although some people were wearing cords or cuffed jeans back then. My friend’s father grew up in El Paso and said the reason for a lot of those clothes was because they were cheap and durable, and could be made to look sharp with a little effort. Hair was worn greased back, or long, before the pelon style took off. Bandanas folded wide and worn “Apache” style low over the eyes or blue beanie sock hats. Again, my references are San Diego, El Monte, Montebello, etc. during the 70s, so I didn’t consider other areas of the country where these clothes were undoubtedly worn. During that same time I remember the stereotypical “black style” was Afros, denim, cake cutters, etc. So bandanas, white T-shirts, ‘beaters, etc., all that was working man’s outfit, but there was a distinct Chicano style of putting it all together, everything pressed and just so…


-calo ese style of talking,

*When have blacks, and most of america, used calo, or even incorporate calo into their speech. If anything, mexicans/chicanos who do indeed speak calo, also utilize black slang words and other verbal expressions, into their lexicon of subculture speech, and you, and everyone else reading this, knows this.

OK, but to characterize Chicano gangster speech patterns as primarily derived from African-American sources would be patently false. The rhyming, twisting, rising and falling inflections, etc can all be found in Mexican rural speech, and the slang terms are distinct as well. Agree that currently lots of young Americans of all races use black slang words, and black American culture as communicated through hip hop has had a strong influence on contemporary American youth culture in general. And where did the word “Loc” come from?


*And basically folks would be wrong if they believed that, without taking into account that every racial group living in close proximity of one another, will be influenced by each other as well. Furthermore, you had black gangs in L.A. as well, going back before WWII, and secondly, pachucos garnered much of their style of "cool" and swagger, as well as style of clothing (zoot-suits, etc.) from black folks style at the time, even incorporating black slang words, expressions, gaits, amongst other things.

- Seeing that it was the height of the “Swing Era” and Cab Calloway and others were styling the zoot suits, I’ll agree. But I still think a lot of the Pachuco’s laid-back cool derives from Mexican rural mannerisms combined with an undercurrent of streetwise menace. And again, I was addressing the SoCal gangbanger, of which the earliest documented Mexican gangs in L.A. go back to the 20s, before there was a large black population in L.A.

*Now mind you, I'm not denying that mexicans/chicanos didn't incorporate their own cultural ethos into that which they were arrogating, because on the same token, black gangbangers in L.A. have done the same thing, by adding their distinct cultural, South Central flavor, when it comes to gang lifestyle, which has nothing to do with mexican origins in the least bit: a flavor that many eses who moved into the south central zone within the last decades, have adopted wholesale, but now only turn around and lie to the world about how the black style their emulating, really came from mexicans/chicanos-which is bogus...

-I see black rappers in videos driving lowriders that were undoubtedly "Mexican" (L.A. Chicano, not from Mexico) 20 years ago, and nobody screams ripoff.

*Because it isn't a "ripoff," seeing as how lowriders came about way before 20 years ago, and secondly, black folks been lowriding since the 50's, longer than chicanos been in the rap game. Hell, as a matter of fact, black folks are the ones to call these types rides, "lowriders," in the 60's, whereas before, mexicans/chicanos would refer to lowriders as "ramflas."

- Again, from what I saw in the 70s the Chicano-style car was unique, and indeed called a “lowrider,” in fact in some places the term was synonymous with “Mexican.” The “black” cars of the time were Caddies and Lincolns, moon roof, antennas, etc., while the Chicano style was Chevy’s, old-school (at the time) “bombas” and pickups, Impalas, Rivis, etc. A juiced ’64 Impala rollin’ on Daytons would definitely be considered Chicano. Doesn’t mean other folks can’t drive ‘em. I do remember an interview with Easy E or somebody where he remarked that the “eses” made the baddest rides.

So if anything, black folks have earned their right to drive lowriders, seeing as how mexicans/chicanos have taken a plethora of cultural influences from black folks, on such a wholesale level.

-Agreed.

-Hell, the midwestern kids that buy those records probably think its a "black thing."

*It has become a black thing, by way of codification, just like the zoot-suit, in the minds of many folks in this country, including your precious midwest, is a mexican/chicano thing, because of the pachuco codification.

-I hear a lot of Raza listening to rap and using "black" slang, but I don't think they're "acting black."

*Well, would you say the same thing about black folks speaking calo (as if that's a widespread phenomenon), and driving lowriders, trying not to act mexican/chicano?

-No, because as mentioned before, black popular and street culture is a lot more pervasive in the US than the Chicano influence. On the other hand, I don’t consider black folks speaking like Colin Powell and wearing suits to be “acting white.” Hell, a lot of the “white people” in this country weren’t speaking English or wearing suits when they came here…

-Still, I'd rather hear rancheras.

*Man, you can help yourself with that music...

- Yeah, it’s an acquired taste if you haven’t grown up with it. Even then, it can be hard on some people’s ears.

-As long as I can remember, most Mexicans in/from Mexico don't want anything to do with cholo/gangbanger lifestyle.

*I guess that's good to know? Yeah, considering that some people here can’t distinguish between a “pocho” and a “paisa…”

-You see a lot of cowboy hats and hear ranchera music and see lucha libre in Compton.

*Okay?

-See last comment.

-You see black, white and Mexican kids hanging out together in some neighborhoods in the Southbay.

*That's good, I guess...

-Yeah, I think so…

-And yes, Joe "Pegleg" Morgan was supposedly born in San Pedro, a "little" city down here in the Harbor Area.

*I've often wondered if Joe "Pegleg" Morgan was black, and was in the same settings and surroundings, performing the same deeds, would he have gotten the same type of love from the mexican/chicano community, or any traction at all...

-I was responding to someone’s earlier question as well as to another’s reference to SP as a “little city down by the harbor.” I don’t know. Probably not, as the eme came on the scene when racial tensions were ratcheting up in CA prisons, and at the time there were tensions when Mexicans were moving into mainly black neighborhoods. I don’t think any black/Mexican tension is related to the black vs. white Jim Crow/slavery issues though.

[StillNoScript]

Almost the entire thread is off topic. The author of the thread just basically asked if Nortenos existed, and rather or not there are Surenos in Northern California. Yes, and yes.

The topic of Nortenos identifying more with Black culture than Surenos is interesting, though; But should probably serve as it's own thread.

Anyhow, like you said, f**k it. Might as well just continue the discussion here.

[paulie]

i heard that the nortenos r starting to come in strong in L.A. Doesne1 from from the LA area know about this?? Also there at war with the crips and bloods.

[Individual]

i heard that the nortenos r starting to come in strong in L.A. Doesne1 from from the LA area know about this?? Also there at war with the crips and bloods.

NOT TRUE..NO NORTENOS DOWN HERE..

[KrazieShadow]

i got a cousin in san francisco geting involved in norteno gangs

[GTS]

Is he runnin with LNS in the Mission?

[NEW DOOBIE]

GOOD POSTS, SO THERE IS IN FIGHTING WITHIN THE NORTENO COMMUNITY?? THATS CRAZY. THAT ARTICLE YOU HAD GTS SAID SOMETHING ABOUT "NUEVA FLORES"?? THATS A TRIP. TRUST ME, NORTENOS NEED NOT TO BREAK UP AND FORM ANOTHER CLIKA, THE SUR WOULD JUMP ON THE OPPURTUNITY TO EXPLOIT AND ATTACK. JUST LIKE IN ARIZONA WHERE THEY HAVE "OLD" MEXICAN MAFIA AND "NEW" MEXICAN MAFIA, IT IS A DISTRACTION AND MANY LIVEES ARE BEING LOST IN THIS BATTLE. IN SALINAS, IT'S CRAZY. MY WIFES AUNT LIVES THERE AND I HAVE SEEN NORTENOS LIKE SALAS EAST MARKETA, SALAS LAS CASITAS, AND I'VE TALKED TO VATOS FROM MADERA BARRIO LOCOS, LA POSADA 13, ETC. THEY ARE IN A FUKEN WAR WITH NORTENOS THERE. BODY'S ARE DROPPING EVERYDAY.

AND REAL, REMEMBER SOME SURENOS ARE BLACK HATING. NOT ALL. LIKE I SAID, ALOT OF COMPTONE GANGS ARE REAL COOL WITH BLACKS. EXAMPLE: CV3 & SBCC CV155 & 151 PIRU, CVTKS & SSCC, IN L.A-RSC & C14, F13 & SWANS, RAC & SXL, ETC, ETC. I CAN MAKE A LIST BUT THIS A NORTENO TOPIC. SO RELAX ON THE SUR RACIST JAZZ. IT ALL CHANGES IN THE PEN AND NO ONE CAN HELP THAT. JUST LIKE IF DUDES FROM SWANS GOT BUSTED AND WAS COOL WITH F13, IF A RIOT JUMPS OFF, DUDE FROM SWANS IS GONNA BE GUNNING FOR ANY SUR/F13/EST/18/WF/ WHATEVER. IT'S ABOUT COLOR. YOU CANT HELP IT, POLITICS. PERIOD!!

[GTS]

Yah Salinas is a war zone, if you talk to any homies out there you'll hear about the shit thats goin down. There's a shooting every night out there, and them boys be goin at it, with no remorse. But about that article, no one likes someone who "debriefs" as u would know DOOBIE. I can't speak on the new name, but shit ain't gonna fly. Your right if there's internal conflict with NF than that will leave an opportunity for Sur to try and smash. But I'd rather weed out the weak and have fewer numbers of real soldados.

[GTS]

Here's a new article that speaks about the power struggle inside NF.


http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/monte ... 053590.htm

[Cold Bear]

Speakin of the letters 'NF' I saw this old fool around the way with a ponytail and a red bandana around his head, who also was a straight up Chicano (which is rare out here to see a Mexican who is not new to the US in my area). I'm thinking this dude looks like a Norteno, then I see him drinking the beer Night Flight with some big ass red NF letters on it. I'm scratching my head. He got tats but I couldn't really peep them. Then he senses my question and says "Yeah this and this is because I was locked up for a while". Anybody else know of any Nortenos out here in NYC or in the East?

[GTS]

People relocate for all sorts of reasons, there's no established set anywhere out there, but you can find a couple in any state. Red bandana and if it was a mongolian tail then I'm sure he was an ENE.

[Cold Bear]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. with all the thing I mentioned (plus dude had a clear Cali accent). Seemed like a solid guy, few gray hairs if you know what I mean.

[bangthesystem]

I may be late on this but Im black and native american, I use to run with R-13 back till about 94. I live in Nor Cal now and am a rasta so you would never have guessed. I got showed love until I was fucking the girls that was coming around(cholas). Kinda of weird being black in Nor Cal having a problems with Nortenos but as time passed I could see I could build and relate more to my 14 homies. In general I just bang on the system now

[ajay049]

It's a crazy situation in the Salinas/Gilroy area. Every year at the garlic festival sh*t popps off.

[Cold Bear]

Damn, Gilroy is kinda boonied out. That shit is in the outskirts I been through there a couple times and barely saw anything but poor whitefolks...who does this beef pop off between?

I know for fact Salas is trippin, but Gilroy I would not have guessed.

[ajay049]

Norte has mad gente in the East Side bangin on West Side trece.
It is also known that Gilroy Homeboys always beefin with Salinas within Norte .

[Cold Bear]

Damn, that's a trip. So you got a ES 14 and a WS 13? I went to some hip-hop club / show in Gilroy and fools were out there mad dogging but I don't think Gilroy has the status or numbers to be pulling away within Norte like say Fresno or anything like that. Shouldn't a smaller town try to unite with a bigger city to not get rode on? I mean Salinas would clearly get the better of that.

[GTS]

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/10326 ... 2803c.html

[gasmask]

Speakin of Nortenos, if you bang it, then what set or varrio do you claim??
I dont but ill just name the ones i know of:

VGD - Varrio Grande - Decoto, union city
VNF - Varrio Norte Fremont - Fremont
West End - Newark

[Kemosave]

Gilroy is where the Indian motocycle factory is. Unfortunately they are in the process of being purchased by yet another set of owners.

[ReD-SnaPPer-BDawg]

there are NORTH SIDER RIDERZ in Los Scandalos Killa Kalli.

[2%SODA]

i was told that the Norte's in Stockton don't like each other...

[guardsman]

Norteno 14 sets in Yakima, Washington.

North Side Villains 14
Clown Boy Nortenos 14
La Raza 14
Original Loko Boyz 14
Varrio Campo Vida 21
Crazy Girl Nortenas 14
Little Chicka Nortenas 14
Varrio Rojas Carnalas 21

[MMRbkaRudog]

Norten'os in SoxCalx is a rare thing....

Aren't the Original Loko Boyz an Asian BLOOD gang? Are those varrios 21, representing 21st??

[MiChuhSuh]

Norten'os in SoxCalx is a rare thing....

Aren't the Original Loko Boyz an Asian BLOOD gang? Are those varrios 21, representing 21st??

Yes, OLB is blood

[Mr. ChuCC Taylor]

we have norte 14 here is that real or fake they on the northside tho so let me know