race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2

[Representando]

Young Nile stop it with your stupid "the other day i was talking to a Mexican" please man shut up, all you want to do is make the Mexicans look bad. And what if I went to spain? So what? What the hell would they call me? I don't think they would call me anything, about a week ago I was watching this show in a Mexican channel (Toma Libre) and Facundo the guy who hosts the show was in spain wearing a shirt that said Mexico on it, he also told them he was Mexican and they were cool with him and happy to meet him. They never called him anthing, they treated him like everyone else.

[E`S`T]

It just seems to me like alot of brothers is on here taking pop shots at the Hispanic Raza. First off remember that there are over 30 million Hispanics in the U.S and not even a quarter of that number are gang members or racists. So what about the rest? I know for a fact that there are good Hispanics in the U.S that respect everyone no matter what the color of their skin. So when you weigh the good versus the bad, the good out weighs the negative. Remember that homies..peace

[Young Nile]

First off by no means do I want to come off as a rascist. I truly wish that the brotha's and Mexicans cant reverse the colision cource that we are on.
I know that there are alot of good Hispanics out there I know alot of them, hell growing up I had a lot of hispanic friends I remember back in high school people sometimes would refer to me as a chocolate cholo, thats why I'm in such amaze at what I have been noticing as of late.


I just call it how I see it......................

[wcrockets]

Ok enough you all stop net bangin the Mexicans if you all so pissed about it then go to the streets and do something about it. Stop spending your life here complaining and go actually do something. Posting here won't change a damn thing people! All these posts are making the hispanics sound bad and the black and white people sound like they won't kill a fly. Not only are some hispanics racist, what about blacks and whites their are more racist white people than blacks or Mexicans. How bout we start bangin the blacks and whites now? Why go towards the hispanics? Just because we are brown doesn't mean we are in between and love everybody regardless their color, NO some of us are racist but the majority arent. Also about someones comment saying that the true hispanics are white...thats BS, the Aztecas weren't white and neither the mayan nor the Spanish who came and took over Mexico.
STOP NET BANGIN and get some REAL INFO people.

Umm.. actually the Spanish are white. Also, The Real (aka Malcom X.. lol just kidding) is right about the damage they inflicted over the unknown world 1500's.

[TheReal]

Young Nile stop it with your stupid "the other day i was talking to a Mexican" please man shut up, all you want to do is make the Mexicans look bad. And what if I went to spain? So what? What the hell would they call me? I don't think they would call me anything, about a week ago I was watching this show in a Mexican channel (Toma Libre) and Facundo the guy who hosts the show was in spain wearing a shirt that said Mexico on it, he also told them he was Mexican and they were cool with him and happy to meet him. They never called him anthing, they treated him like everyone else.

*Look man, SPANISH ARE WHITE!!

[TheReal]

This is in response to sondoobie specifically, and representado, wcrockets and others collectively:

-It just seems to me like alot of brothers is on here taking pop shots at the Hispanic Raza.

*It may seem that way, only because the "brothers" are addressing the hate that hate produced! The anger that's expressed is based on real life experiences with your "raza", and instead of being upset with the "brothers", why not talk to your "Hispanic Raza" about the hate and anger, that they have amongst themselves towards black people. This way, you would greatly minimize some of the venom you see here, being broached by black folks.

Instead, all you're doing is trying to pacify black folks anger, over legitimate concerns, by always highlighting the few non-racist mexicans, while not lifting your finger to condemn your own people's racism. Deep down, you know that most of the black venom being unleashed by black folks on this site, is based on righteous anger, unlike your Mexican brothers and sisters, whose much of their motivations are based on unjustified hatred, racism and white supremacy. You know the difference, and you “good” non-racist mexicans know exactly where to pull on the heartstrings of black people, because in Black folks hatred of Mexican people, if it exist, isn’t like your people’s hatred. Your people are primarily haters without a cause.

Now I'll admit that black folks aren't perfect, and you do have those that possess sincere racism and prejudices within their heart. I will also admit that there are black people that hate mexicans, HOWEVER-I do know that these black folk are in the minority! Why? Because the majority of black folks like mexicans, and will collectively defend mexicans against white folks, and black folks that try and down them, but it isn't that way for mexicans-not even those who pride themselves in being non-racist.

Most mexicans are racist against black folks (I would say about 65%), and those that are non-racist refuse to check the racism (with the exception of a few) within their own people, rather they fluff it off, because they either 1) don't care; 2) feel it's a necessary evil; or 3) don't feel that blacks are important enough to defend, because even though you may not harbor hatred in your heart personally towards Black folks, you do believe in much of the racist statements leveled at black people by mexicans, to where you're glad that someone's saying what you're not bold enough to admit to, and/or you feel that defending black folks is beneath you! TELL ME I'M LYING!!

-First off remember that there are over 30 million Hispanics in the U.S and not even a quarter of that number are gang members or racists.

*First off, you remember, that included in those statistics of Hispanics, you have those who are black, or of african descent. Grant it, many of them are racist against blacks, as well as feel that even if they are part black, or are fully black, that they are better than black americans (to me this is foolish thinking, because truth be told, blacks in this country, compared to black latinos, or those of african descent, have accomplished a lot in this country, and have achieved wondrous feats, that can stack up against any afro-latino, or those latinos of african descent's roster of achievements and accomplishments), but let's not try and muddy the issue! You know damn well know that the black folk in here aren't referring to other hispanics/latinos per se: THEY’RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT MEXICANS. That's a trick that the devil uses, in order to cause confusion.

Now I'll admit that mexicans are about 60 some percent of the total hispanic/latino population, however, the black folks on this board aren't talking about the whole hispanic/latino population! OH HELL NO! We're specifically talking about the most racist of all the hispanic/latino groups, which are primarily (not solely) those of the mestizo variety (amerindian and european), and especially mexicans! Mexicans are the most racist of the hispanic/latino variety, or just those who are of the mestizo variety, seeing as how there's really no difference between your people's racism, and that of white folks.

As I said before, even though whites and mexicans may have their interfamily squabbles and disagreements that are political, let it be known that on a grassroots level-WHITES AND MEXICANS GET ALONG FINE, with few exceptions! Black leaders are always deceiving black folks into believing that we should feel some sort of pain and solidarity, with our “downtrodden mexican brothers and sisters”; which is essentially blacks folks in general, whereas you have plenty of rank and file black folks picking up that same mantra. If you ask me it is foolish for Blacks to grieve for Mexicans, seeing as how the majority of Mexicans hate Black people, and don't rightfully give a damn about black interests!

Most blacks haven't realized that just because a "darker" race is discriminated against by "whitey", doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate into solidarity and unity with black folks! I can understand the logic of that thinking and its’ simplicity, but in the end, every other group sees and realizes that it's all about taking pride in your own tribe!!! The fact that Mexicans will accept white people into their family pool quicker than they would someone black, is evidence to me-that Mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans allow white folks into their gangs/organizations, and will not hardly (with few exceptions) accept any black folks into their gangs/organizations as freely, or as frequently, as they would white folks, is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans will join white supremacist organizations, and will ally with them, so freely and easily (something that black folks can never dream about doing; not that they should either), is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same. The fact that mexicans will utilize the exact same arguments, that white racists would use, in attacking black historical legacies, alleged inferiority, as well as physiological characteristics, is evidenced to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same in regards to racial outlook, etc.

Trust me, I can say more, and list more examples, but to close this angle of the discussion, let me just say that blacks have for far too long, had blinders covering their eyes, in regards to racial solidarity with mexicans, and other racial groups, just because they're non-white! Many black folks foolishly believe that just because a darker group is subjected to racism, that that darker person is therefore, automatically down with black folks, because they understand the "struggle". Well first of all, that darker non-black person may be "down" with the cause, or "struggle", but it's primarily with his or her OWN PEOPLE!!! That's what many black folks don't understand, particularly when you have some non-white person, who may, or may not have been subjected to white oppression, complain to black folks about "whitey" and the evils of the white "devil", knowing that they'd find a sympathetic ear amongst many black folks!

Why? Because in many (not all) black folks eyes, if they are going to discuss a racial enemy, they are solely going to focus on white folks, and white folks only: AND MEXICANS AND OTHER GROUPS KNOW THIS, BUT THEY WILL USE THIS ON BLACK FOLKS, IN ORDER TO GAIN A PARTICULAR ADVANTAGE OR OBJECTIVE!!!! HOWEVER, WHEN THOSE SAME FOLKS, BOO-HOOING TO BLACK FOLKS ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE AND THEIR RACISM TOWARDS THEM, GAIN AN ADVANTAGE, WHETHER IT BE POLITICALLY, NUMERICALLY, OR SOCIALLY, THEN TO HELL WITH BLACK FOLK, IT'S ALL ABOUT "LA RAZA"!! Now in many ways, to be honest with you, there's nothing wrong with being about your own people's interest. We all know that black folks can use some of that medicine. The real problem though, lies in the fact that mexicans and other minorities, will try and invoke feelings of guilt and shame, when black folks try to unite and solidify their people, and deal with issues and concerns, concerning their own black people, by stating that 1) blacks aren't the only ones having problems with racism in this society; 2) for black folks to only think about black issues, makes them no better than white people; and 3) blacks never assisted other minority groups, when it came to their own unique struggles against white supremacy, even though the laws that were passed under the Civil Rights Movement, spearheaded by blacks, assisted and aided other non-black minorities.

This is the tricknology that non-black minorities will try and use on black folks, just like racist white folks, in order to keep black folks from unifying, and tending to their own needs and concerns specifically. These groups don't see anything wrong with their talk of unity, and discussing their plight, without once mentioning black people into the equation, but will make black folks feel like heels, if they're not concerned, nor give honorary mention to the plight of other folks.

You see, and you sondoobie know this to be true, many mexicans believe (because we are talking about mexicans, however, if any other non-black person, who's non-white, want to join the discussion, I'll deal with their people specifically as well) that when blacks reach out to mexicans, or give them honorary mention, such as what Tupac, or other black public figures, and/or luminaries would do, mexicans would accuse these folks of trying to appeal to mexicans because 1) they're trying to use mexicans numbers, in their fight against white supremacy; 2) blacks don't like being black anyway, so they're trying to attach themselves onto a race, they deep down feel inferior to, just so that they can be considered one people with this group, instead of having the stigma of being black alone; 3) because blacks ought to ingratiate themselves towards mexicans, because black folks owe them, because they're mexican, and the little that black folks did accomplish, should really go to mexicans anyway, because mexicans are better than blacks; more worthy than blacks; therefore kissing up to mexicans is a natural response from blacks that ought to be done, seeing as how blacks are at the bottom of the racial totem pole anyway! Again, you sondoobie and other mexicans, KNOW I'M TELLING THE TRUTH!!

- So what about the rest? I know for a fact that there are good Hispanics in the U.S that respect everyone no matter what the color of their skin.

*This is true, but they are silent about the rest of their people that are racist! You see, folks in this country only want to discuss black racism, in regards to a minority having those type of feelings, but those who are classified as hispanics, or more specifically mexicans, are hardly ever critiqued. You telling me that there are good mexicans, is like telling black folks during the Civil Rights Movement that there are good white folks!! That's a moot point.

During the days of Jim Crow and segregation in the deep south, and elsewhere, you always had good white folk, that’s not even an issue. Yet despite the number of "good" white folks, IT STILL DIDN'T STOP THEIR BRETHREN THAT WERE RACIST, FROM OPPRESSING BLACK FOLKS!!! Hell, some of those "good" white folks were part of the problem!! Knowing that black folks, by and large, were overwhelmed by the hatred of white folks, and would consider it of high honor for a white person just to smile at them, more so than they would their own kind (black people)-these "good" white folks would pacify black folks by their own personal goodness, and at the same time tell those blacks who were oppressed by their white brethren that not all white folks are bad, so don't judge the whole group.

Now a lot of this sentiment is true, when it comes to judging a collective, however white people, just like mexicans, have those "good" folks amongst their kind, who will break bread with black folk, hang with black folk, have sex with black women (even men too), have children with black women (even men too), AND STILL BE RACIST AS HELL AGAINST THE COLLECTIVE BLACK COMMUNITY: or at the very least, hold latent racial feelings against black people, or are borderline racist! These borderline racist mexicans, or those that are latently racist, despite the fact that they don't consider themselves haters, will nevertheless not step in and lift their finger against the evil deeds of racism that their people will enforce.

Just like Strom Thurmond, who had sex with a black woman, thus producing a black child. Well, his daughter naturally claims that he wasn’t a racist, because her personal experiences with him, albeit strained, were positive. Hell, he would even financially support her, from time to time, but it nevertheless didn’t stop him, nor thwart him, from being the most rabid segregationist there was in the senate and congress, from the 40’s, 50’s, and much of the 60’s!!! This fool, during the mid 60’s, when his daughter was at least in her 40’s, debated vehemently against the passage of the Civil Rights Act, stating that the natural order of things was segregation, and also staged the longest filibuster in congressional history, when it came to voting on the Civil Rights Act. (In the 1940’s during the time that his daughter was in here 20’s, he ran as a dixiecrat for president, promoting a segregationist platform.)

So you may ask me, WHAT’S THE POINT? Well my point is, I’m sure that there were many blacks during the life of Strom Thurmond, during the time he was a rabid segregationist (or even after he “changed”), that can give you stories of personal contacts with Strom, that weren’t racist, but rather produced positive results, FOR THEM ONLY!!!!!! However, with that being the case, it never propelled Strom Thurmond from denouncing any of the racism that was occurring throughout his home state of South Carolina against blacks, COLLECTIVELY!!! Even though he may have had black acquaintances that he was “cool” with, he still didn’t lift a finger against his white brethren for not allowing blacks to vote in his state, by way of violent means; he never lifted a finger to stop the lynching of blacks, by his own people; etc. Oh don’t get me wrong, he may have assisted and aided individual blacks, yet he never spoke out against the racism that his own people made towards blacks.

Not that this was his intention, but many blacks, in dealing with these type of white people that are considered “good”, whether it’s real or imagined, can produce a sense of illusory and personal satisfaction, because the person who belongs to a group of people they want to think well of, is treating them nice. With many blacks, if they’re not careful, these type of “good” non-black people, will excuse, or even lessen the urgency, or load, in the psyches of black people, when it comes to fighting against racism and oppression-because they’ve been blindsided by “good” non-black people, whom are tacitly stating that my goodness towards you, is good enough to let the rest of my racist brethren off the hook, because now you see that we are all not like that! That may indeed be the case, however, many of those “good” White folks from back in the day, and “good” non-racist Mexicans today, did not, and do not, lift their voices in regards to their own people’s wrongdoings, because deep down they benefit, or will benefit, from the present status quo, or the status quo that is to come with large numbers.

-So when you weigh the good versus the bad, the good out weighs the negative. Remember that homies..peace

*On a personal level it does, because in the end, we are all humans, thus social creatures whose love and friendships can transcend race, or religion. But having said that, I do realize that as human beings, groups will naturally want to take pride in their tribe, and look out for the best interests of their own group, even though they may friends that belong to another ethnic, or racial group. Just don’t make black folk feel guilty about having racial pride amongst their own group, or make them feel guilty about including other minority groups within their discussions of racism and oppression, seeing as how you damn well know that those same groups that criticize blacks for not including them, would never voluntary include black folks into their discussions!

Finally, I still will stand by the position that Mexican racists are the new white supremacists, and the running, unspoken joke is-THAT BLACK FOLKS HAVEN’T FIGURED THIS OUT YET! Black folks are still in a haze of believing that just because you’re dark, and non-white, that this automatically makes you an eternal ally, and that their struggles are automatically intertwined with one another. All other groups know this not to be case, but will imply that it is the case, when it suits their advantage.

Again, I’m not preaching that black folks ought to hate Mexicans, or any other racial group, just because they’re Mexicans, unlike what your own people think. What I’m teaching is that black folks ought to defend themselves against the predators within, and without their community! Seeing as how we’re on this website dealing with gang issues, and the fact that many of you folks are from Cali, as well as myself, I felt that the issue of Mexican and Black folks, and the rivalries that occur collectively across the board, which trickle down to the gang tensions, was and is appropriate! How so? Because you and I know that Mexican gangs, despite their existing for other functions, primarily are haters of black people collectively, and that part of their function is to rid black gangs of their existence, as well as black people throughout California and the southwest altogether-whether they are part of a gang, or not!

The majority of Mexican gangs, particularly in areas where Mexicans dominate in numbers, are racist and white supremacist in their proclivities, and their targeting of black gang members, or the general black populace, is tantamount to what white racists use to do in general, but now have a foot soldier/ally, who will continue, and take off where they (white folks) stopped. Now mind you, I’m not saying that blacks are angels, and I don’t mind retaliation against anyone, regardless of what race, if that person killed a relative, or fellow gang member. I understand and appreciate the code of the streets.

But here’s the difference: what’s fueling black gangs, and why they do what they do, even against Mexican gangs, is somewhat different than what Mexican gangs do, and their outlook towards black people. Mexican gangs, and part of the recent foundation for their existence and agenda, are to kill and annihilate blacks in total. A Mexican gang member, in my estimation, is no better than a nazi lowrider, or a skinhead gang, because-AGAIN-one of their ultimate and collective goals are to contain and annihilate the broader black community. That’s why I believe that in dealing with Mexican gang members in general, with unspoken genocidal designs on the black community, don't deal with them, the same way you would deal with ordinary gang squabbles, rather, deal with them the way you would a nazi, skinhead, or klansman, if they were in your midst and sights-because there really is no difference.

Up until now, many Black gangs have viewed Mexican gangs as mere nuisances, who, if they did have any insight on the social structure of racism and how it’s manifested, looked at the struggles between blacks and Mexicans, and the hatred thereof, as something that is orchestrated by white folks. That ultimately may be true (I use to think that way too), however, mexicans aren’t children, and in the end, they know whom they like, and hate-and why they feel the way they feel! Now black folks may be deceived into thinking that mexicans are pawns in a greater game, orchestrated by whites, but despite that being the case, the fact of the matter is-I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HERE AND NOW!!

The fact of the matter is, white racists and Mexican racists have alliances with one another, and they allow one another, into each other’s gangs/organizations, where they freely intermingle with one another, and hardly ever cross into each other’s domain. But Mexicans will fight Black folks and Asians, and will try to annihilate and contain them, but will never battle or war with Armenian gangs, the Russian mafia, nor white supremacists. If no one can’t see the connection between Mexican racists, their gang structures throughout the southwest, and whom they bed with, and will allow in their bed-THEN THEY’RE LIVING IN DENIAL!!

Black gangs must defend their turf, or just their lives (to hell with territory) against Mexican gang members, who wish to destroy their very existence, throughout the southwest. The same ferocity that black folks potentially have in attacking a person if they found out this cat was a nazi, or white supremacist, ought to be the mindset that blacks carry with them, when it comes to dealing with Mexican gang members, who desire to terminate their very lives, whether they’re in a gang, or not. Or just kill a racist Mexican, or Mexican gang member, who seeks your destruction, with the same passion and fury, the way you would a fellow black, who was a gang member, or just a civilian whom you feel dissed you the wrong way. If you can feel hatred towards your own brother, to where you become an expert killer in taking him (or even her) out-THEN WHY CAN’T YOU FEEL THAT SAME WAY TOWARDS MEXICAN GANG MEMBERS, SEEING AS HOW THE MAJORITY OF THEM HATE BLACK PEOPLE ANYWAY, AS WELL AS HAVE AS APART OF THEIR MOTIVATION FOR EXISTENCE, THE KILLING, CONTAINMENT AND ANNIHILATION OF BLACK FOLKS!

Again, I’m not telling black folks to go out and wantonly kill and exterminate Mexicans just because they’re mexican, the way many Mexicans in real life, as well as on the internet are suggesting, in regards to black folks. Hell, I’ve been on many Mexican websites, where they not only seriously discuss the extermination of black folks, but they also discuss (not all) allying with white folks, in their destruction of black people. You even have white racists on those sites that talk about Mexican nationalists and White nationalists linking up, and killing off black people. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying all Mexicans feel this way, even the racist ones, but the fact that you folks tolerate such a movement in your midst, and try to shrug it off, as if it’s nothing to concern yourself with, by tugging at Black folks heartstrings, by reminding them of how there are good Mexicans out there-STILL DOESN’T HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE BAD ONES THAT ARE PRESENTLY OUT THERE, AND WHOSE DESIRE IS TO DESTROY THE BLACK PRESENCE!!

(Again, I’ll reiterate, I’m only talking about defense (or an offense in retaliation, that was created by an offensive act perpetrated), unlike many Mexicans, who deal strictly in offensive measures.)

Black gangs, or just black folk in general aren’t aware of this, and many of them don’t want to, for many different reasons. But I’ll admit to what is there, and don’t care who likes it. In other words, and I put this out collectively, not individually: YOU’RE NOT DEALING WITH A MAN THAT DOESN’T KNOW YOUR PEOPLE’S NATURE, NOR THEIR DAMN DIRTY WAYS!!!

[TheReal]

First off by no means do I want to come off as a rascist. I truly wish that the brotha's and Mexicans cant reverse the colision cource that we are on.
I know that there are alot of good Hispanics out there I know alot of them, hell growing up I had a lot of hispanic friends I remember back in high school people sometimes would refer to me as a chocolate cholo, thats why I'm in such amaze at what I have been noticing as of late.


I just call it how I see it......................

*You're 100% right, in all of what you've said!

[stateraised2000]

damm real, another one of your long tirades? give us a break, you already made your point...

[wcrockets]

He's only got his one view currently you know and it is is a militant one, in my opinion. He's here to whip it up as best he can, again in this reader's personal opinion. But he's wrong in some areas though right in others. I wonder if he could admit if he was wrong about something? (Maybe he could I don't know). I wonder what his "solution" is to the "problem" he's arguing for and if that "solution" is a violent one? I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).

One area he's wrong in is his perspective of white and mexican love on the street. Yes they get along somewhat better some of the time with each other than either group does with blacks, but the truth is, they been fighting like cats and dogs in SoCal since at least the 30's. But if you're coming from a black perspective you probably won't see that. You'll just see, well, what he's saying.

One area he's right in is his perspective of mexican racism amongst some mexicans. It does seem as if that has really grown up during the 90's. I can't agree with his judgemental perspective, in my opinion (as if black militancy is not part of the problem), that it is all one sided. We could talk, for example, about the empathy factor of many Muslims toward terrorists. My point is that ALL people empathize naturally with what they believe in and tend to group together by race.

All that aside, I guess the real problem I have with his approach, in my opinion, is that it is negative. He throws inflammatory words around quite a bit without realizing that there are "devils" (if you follow the definition he seems to be expousing regarding this word) in all races including his. More importantly, it's all lopsided. He hasn't addressed the presence of any "angels" yet. His negativism is a dominant force in his argument, in my opinion, which seeks to minimize the progress that's been made over the years and the sacrifice of the "angels" that made it. The truth is that when the racists are all added up and counted together they are but a minority.

And his Southern argument for good white people doesn't address the sheer number of white people who joined, marched, fought and died over the issue. Really the power was in the hands of a few landowners who had legitimized that which never could be legitimized. And the war these unrepentent started evil organizations and spread false information which roped in some of the unhappy lower class whites. Many many good people of all races, including at the time younger white southeners, were responsible for the Civil Rights movement's victories. I don't say victory because the victory is not fully won yet. Personally, I agree with Martin Luther King.

Also, it's interesting that every single one of his posts to date are in threads entitled "Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2," "Re: If B's and C's united, could they take out Mexican gangs," "Re: WHAT DOES 13 MEAN," "Re: CHOLOS AND CHOLAS," "Re: Los Angeles County Jail? [posting his, in my opinion, is his mexican=white racist argument]", and lastly "Man, cut the BS! [talking about the clothes thing]."

The Real, are you obsessed with your argument? You seem to be pursuing it almost single mindly here, as best I can tell.

[Young Nile]

A wrockets I dont know if your Black or not but if you are your no better than others..........

You see thats what I hate and it's been going on forever in our history when deeling other people.

Black folks cant stick together...........Like crabs in a bucket.

If I disagree with something the real said I wouldn't come out in opposition to him in the middle of these discussions I would probaly email him or just keep it to myself........

[stateraised2000]

crocketts, your a moderator and have the button to check his IP address. you can always check that IP address against anyone elses to see if he's somebody else...

[wcrockets]

Naw I'm a white guy. And this is a discussion forum for all races to discuss things as individuals. Those who line up by race and back whatever someone is saying because they are of the same race are missing the point of this in my opinion.

SR: I practically never do that. People like their privacy you know.

[stateraised2000]

i only put that solution cause you put:

""I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).""

you know me and you are cool crockets but why would you even put that and have people wondering now if you werent going to check it out? no offense crockets, im not coming at you wrong, just wondering...

[wcrockets]

lol.

Everyone: The Real and I are cool as far as I am concerned. We're just in a discussion. That's what the board is for is to discuss and trade info. Sure I'm pointing out inconsistencies I think I see and trying to discern his motives currently and agreeing where I believe he's right and disagreeing where I think he's wrong. So what? You should too me same as him and visa versa.

SR: I ask because I'm hoping he answers my questions truthfully. I'll accept his word at this point. Why wouldn't I? I'm not accusing anyone of anything just asking. Just because I have the ability to look up something doesn't mean I'm going too. He's not doing anything wrong. We're in a discussion. We're discussing.

[InterestedGuy]

Well stated wcrockets. The real has some valid points but like you said he just takes things to the extreme and ends up alienating others.

He argues that hispanics or latinos are 'silent' about racism in their own ranks, but that is simply not true as state raised and sam doobie would be the first ones here (and have for that matter) checked on posters for their ignorance. Real seems to only take examples that suit his agendas. He can go to a website and look at what some ignoramuses wrote about blacks and whatnot, but how is that representative of anybody?

I remember back in the mid 90's, many asian immigrant families were viciously harrased in the housing projects up in the Bay Area. I'm not talking about straight name calling, I'm talking about assaults and property damage, being intimidated to the point that they were forced to move out. Some even had the gall to say that it wasn't racist or hateful in nature. Did I see the black gang members who lived in that area speak out against this hate crime, or the black politicians? No I didn't.

Or an even better example, the L.A. riots. I posted this out previously, but EME higher ups (from a newspaper article I read) were particularly incensed that black gangs were indiscriminately beating up latino civilians out on the streets. I don't recall the mayor of L.A. calling for an end to the hate crimes committed by black gang members against innocent civilians. I might also mention, on the flip side, that many black civilians risked their own lives to protect the lives of latinos, whites, asians, during the riots.

I'm not the biggest expert on gangs/gang politics, but it has to be more than coincidence that race relations between black and latino gangs got worse since the riots and have never improved. A lot of it has to do with power and money, and this had to have solidified gangs based on racial lines.

[TheReal]

This is in response to wcrockets:

-He's only got his one view currently you know and it is is a militant one, in my opinion.

*No, I have many viewpoints, which leads back to one point, or center.

-He's here to whip it up as best he can, again in this reader's personal opinion.

*If you're claiming that I'm a flamethrower for my point of view, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT! There's no shame in my game, as it relates to the information I'm putting forth. However, if you're saying that I have an agenda that I'm trying to put forth, THEN YOU'RE WRONG!!! I address the issues that are of interest to me: nothing more, nothing less! And you know what? I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ATTACH MYSELF ONTO AN ARGUMENT THAT I FEEL IS INTERESTING, OR THAT PIQUES MY CURIOSITY!

-But he's wrong in some areas though right in others. I wonder if he could admit if he was wrong about something? (Maybe he could I don't know).

*Hell yeah I can admit to being wrong in certain areas! Did I not say that I ultimately wish for you and other folks to be right, and me wrong, for the cause of greater humanity? Just read over all my information!

- I wonder what his "solution" is to the "problem" he's arguing for and if that "solution" is a violent one?

*Part of my solution will only entail violence, if needs be. In other words, I believe in forming defense militias against predators within the black race, as well as without, similar to the black panthers. The black panthers formed their organization in order to deal with police brutality, similar to the deacons for defense in Louisiana-even though they focused mainly on white supremacists in general.

I'm shocked that you folks haven't figured that out yet! I'm not advocating violence for the sake of violence, rather for self-defense purposes!! The fact that you have mexican gangs, along with their white allies, making war on black gangs and people in general, that is outside the framework of normal gang confrontations, but are leaking into the areas of racism and genocide, only compels me to argue for unity amongst black gangs: not in necessarily giving up their identity or space, but rather a unity of purpose against mexican gangs, who seek their annihilation SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK!

Remember, many blacks view mexican gangs and them fighting blacks, as just simple gang warfare, whereas mexicans that are fighting black folks, SEE IT AS A RACE WAR! So why am I the bad guy, for asking black gangs to reassess their enemy (mexican gang members, in this instance), and view them as a group of folks hell-bent on genocidal purposes, with the philosophy of "OPEN SEASON ON ALL N!GGERS!" Why am I wrong for telling black folks, that when you deal with such a beast, that you should decapitate that devil, and hang them on a cross as a symbol to any devil that tries to cause genocide and containment of their people!!

When this country goes to war with other nations, and try to kill their enemies, in the name of national defense, and it is justified, then why can't I, or other blacks do the same-seeing as how mexican racists and white supremacists agendas for black folks, aren't all too pretty! Hell, at least I'm talking about striking back, when attacked, unlike many (not all) mexican racists and white supremacists! Their collective philosophy is-AGAIN: "Kill a n!gger, no matter gang affiliation, or not!" And what I'm arguing is that it will get worst, particularly in the southwestern portions of the U.S. for black folks-JUST WAIT AND SEE!!

-I wonder if he goes by other screen names at streetgangs.com? (I don't know but it would be interesting to know).

*Nope! And why would you think that?????

-One area he's wrong in is his perspective of white and mexican love on the street. Yes they get along somewhat better some of the time with each other than either group does with blacks, but the truth is, they been fighting like cats and dogs in SoCal since at least the 30's. But if you're coming from a black perspective you probably won't see that. You'll just see, well, what he's saying.

*Noooooooooooo...did I not admit that whites and mexicans have interfamily squabbles amongst themselves?? I think I can recall me saying this on several occasions! True enough, you will have skirmishes between the two groups, now and then, HOWEVER, these two groups can still find it within the other group racially to unite on the points that I had addressed, from my previous post-and you, and other folks know this!!!

The thing these two groups have in common, besides being allies, and being members in each other’s organizations, IS THERE HATRED AND GENOCIDAL DESIGNS UPON THE BLACK COMMUNITY!!!! Let's be real about this!!!!

-One area he's right in is his perspective of mexican racism amongst some mexicans.

*No, I'm right in the sense that MOST mexicans are racist, as it stands now in 2003!

-It does seem as if that has really grown up during the 90's.

*What are you trying to say here?

-I can't agree with his judgemental perspective, in my opinion (as if black militancy is not part of the problem), that it is all one sided.

*Well, that's your opinion, but in my book, I feel that I covered all areas...

-We could talk, for example, about the empathy factor of many Muslims toward terrorists. My point is that ALL people empathize naturally with what they believe in and tend to group together by race.

*Man, did I not address this in the previous post that you're replying to?? Contrary to what you may believe, this statement of yours isn't contradicting any of what I said! (Just reread the post of mine that he has in question.)

-All that aside, I guess the real problem I have with his approach, in my opinion, is that it is negative. He throws inflammatory words around quite a bit without realizing that there are "devils" (if you follow the definition he seems to be expousing regarding this word) in all races including his.

*Well I'm sorry if I'm not discussing this particular topic with a smile, or with a less sense of urgency, that others may want me to possess! I don't walk in the spirit of non-violence, nor do I wish to be a good "negro"! And as far as the word "devil", well if you were to read carefully, I'm not calling a whole race of people "devils", just those who manifest certain characteristics.

Another thing, you're right: BLACKS CAN BE DEVILS TOO, BASED ON HOW I'M USING THE WORD! Having said that, black folks aren't intentionally trying to annihilate, contain, and bring under their feet, as well as excise the presence of mexicans and white folks from this country, whereas you have plenty of mexicans and white folks, with these same genocidal designs upon the black community! Tell me, I'm lying!! And these are the devils that I'm attacking!!

-More importantly, it's all lopsided.

*More importantly, YOU'RE WRONG! What it is, is that your assessment of my arguments is "all lopsided", because in the end, you're seeing what you want to see, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT I HAD WRITTEN!

-He hasn't addressed the presence of any "angels" yet.

*This statement right here just let's me know that you're trying to engage in sarcasm, based on certain remarks of mine-but it doesn't work. Here's a suggestion: go back and read the context and subtext, of why I had used the word "angels", in my discussion. If you don't, then you'll be relegated to what you're doing now-taking a text, out of context, which is a pretext (falsely stated purpose)!

-His negativism is a dominant force in his argument, in my opinion, which seeks to minimize the progress that's been made over the years and the sacrifice of the "angels" that made it.

*Say man, if you're getting metaphysical and esoteric with a brother, please calm down. Right now, you appear to be so bent out of shape, from what I've said, to where you're placing quotation marks around the word "angels", as if my use of the word, fell under your definition, of how you're using it!!

-The truth is that when the racists are all added up and counted together they are but a minority.

*I hope you're right, but with this younger generation-I don't know...

-And his Southern argument for good white people doesn't address the sheer number of white people who joined, marched, fought and died over the issue.

*You know why? BECAUSE I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE GOOD WHITE FOLKS THAT ASSISTED BLACK PEOPLE WITH THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS!!! The context of my discussion was talking about those "good" white, or mexican folks, who claim not to be haters and racists, yet they tolerate, and live easily and comfortably, with the racism coming from their people, and how their people exercise that racism, in order to oppress and suppress, the movement of others: THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO!!!

Within the context, of the issue I was addressing, I didn't make a logical miscalculation! Okay, if you want me to admit that there were white folks that helped black people attain many of their rights-I WILL ADMIT THAT, if it makes you feel good, but know this: THAT WASN'T THE POINT, NOT EVEN THE SUBTEXT, OF WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING!! (For further clarification of what I was getting at, just reread the post, this man has a problem with.)

-Really the power was in the hands of a few landowners who had legitimized that which never could be legitimized. And the war these unrepentent started evil organizations and spread false information which roped in some of the unhappy lower class whites.


*Look, I'm not foolish enough to think that "lower class whites" were total victims, of the hegemony machine, that was in operation by their elitist white brethren. Truth be told, many of your "lower class whites" had a vested interest in keeping blacks beneath them, in the sense that-IF THEY COULDN'T BE BETTER THAN BLACK FOLKS, THEN WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM!!!!

White elitists in the south didn't teach these lower class whites about racism, that dilemma started from the ground up! White folk were collectively racist in the south, because they were products of white supremacy and white privilege!! Another thing-it doesn't matter if many of their elitist brethren were pulling strings, in order to maintain the status quo, because 1) many of the lower class whites would rather have their own kind (white folks) being in a position of power oppressing them, which essentially gave them hope, or self-esteem despite their circumstances-WHITE FOLKS WERE STILL IN CONTROL; and 2) lower class whites, despite their "exploitation" by the hands of their elitist brethren, were some willing “exploitees!!” In other words, they hated black folks so intensely, despite allegedly being pawns in a larger game, so to speak-THAT MANY OF THEM HATED BLACK FOLKS, MORE SO THAN THEY LOVED THEIR OWN CHILDREN!! And you know this!

-Many many good people of all races, including at the time younger white southeners, were responsible for the Civil Rights movement's victories.

*Most of the whites that joined the Civil Rights movement, were from up north, and they were primarily jewish. Now this isn't to say that whites from the south didn't help in the Civil Rights movement, rather, I'm just adding a bit of historical perspective to your statements.

Secondly, when you say that "many good people of all races" helped to bring about "Civil Rights movement's victories", don't make it sound as if there were a drove of asians and mexicans, heading down south, in order to help black folks get the right to vote, etc. Now I will admit, folks like Joan Baez, and probably a few other non-blacks, who were non-white, aided and abetted black folks during this time, but it was miniscule in comparison to white folks.

White folks were the only non-black group (and I'm including jews, even though many whites and others, don't view jews as being white) in droves, to really assist black folks back in the day!

-I don't say victory because the victory is not fully won yet. Personally, I agree with Martin Luther King.

*I hear ya'.

-Also, it's interesting that every single one of his posts to date are in threads entitled "Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2," "Re: If B's and C's united, could they take out Mexican gangs," "Re: WHAT DOES 13 MEAN," "Re: CHOLOS AND CHOLAS," "Re: Los Angeles County Jail? [posting his, in my opinion, is his mexican=white racist argument]", and lastly "Man, cut the BS! [talking about the clothes thing]."

*Uh...as I said earlier: I HAVE A RIGHT TO ADDRESS THE TOPICS THAT I FIND INTERESTING, AND WHY DOES IT THREATEN YOU??

-The Real, are you obsessed with your argument? You seem to be pursuing it almost single mindly here, as best I can tell.

*Would you ask a soldier on the battlefield, whose duty is to defend his ground, and possibly the people he’s looking after, whether or not he was obsessed? Would you ask the farmer whose land is overrun with insects eating up his produce, if he were obsessed, if he decided to use pesticides on his fruits and vegetables? Or better yet, would you have asked Martin Luther King if he were obsessed with his drive, to bring about freedom for black people, whether you agreed, or disagreed with King’s ultimate goals? Of course you wouldn’t, so why ask such a question of me?

As I said earlier, I, like anyone else here, am addressing topics that interest me personally, no more, no less. Trust me, it’s not a mystery!!

What’s more important is the integrity of my information, and the truth that is contained therein. Peace.

[E`S`T]

homie you need to quit posting such long ass posts. nobody is gonna read the shyt cause it's too long. you sound like a broken record.lol

[wcrockets]

TheReal, you're all over the board and you missed the point of most of what I was saying. lolol and not because I didn't state it directly or correctly either. I have to work some now but will certainly post a reply taking your replies one at a time. Until then, have a great day I hope. Peace.

[TheReal]

This is in response to Interested Guy:

-Well stated wcrockets. The real has some valid points but like you said he just takes things to the extreme and ends up alienating others.

*I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not here to alienate folks, NOR BECOME THEIR FRIENDS!! You guys don't know me, how I look, and vice-versa. This is a site, like many other sites that I've visited, where I can discuss my views, and put forth my beliefs, which I believe in 100%.

-He argues that hispanics or latinos are 'silent' about racism in their own ranks, but that is simply not true as state raised and sam doobie would be the first ones here (and have for that matter) checked on posters for their ignorance.

*Regardless of whether that's true, or not-THIS IS THE INTERNET!!!! I'm referring to real life, not what goes on in cyberspace!!!! The folks you've just mentioned know I'm right. If anything, they feel emboldened in doing what they're doing probably, BECAUSE THIS IS THE INTERNET, as opposed to real life's circumstances! I'm no fool. And even if they did address the racism in their community, GOOD FOR THEM!! But ultimately they'd be few and far between, compared to what the majority of their people do! And they know this as well!

-Real seems to only take examples that suit his agendas.

*Everyone has agendas, however, if you're telling me that the information that I've posted up contain examples that are false, then that's just plain, unadulterated b.s.! Everything that I've stated, as well as examples, IS THE TRUTH, regardless of what agenda, or agendas you feel that I'm espousing!

-He can go to a website and look at what some ignoramuses wrote about blacks and whatnot, but how is that representative of anybody?

*Because of the simple fact that what is on the internet, to many folks dislike, is a microcosm, of the sentiments, or potential sentiments, that are presently out there in the real world. Secondly, mexican hatred towards black folks, and my knowledge of it, isn't just confined to what I've discovered on the net, but what I've seen, heard and experienced, throughout my life-as well as other blacks!

-I remember back in the mid 90's, many asian immigrant families were viciously harrased in the housing projects up in the Bay Area. I'm not talking about straight name calling, I'm talking about assaults and property damage, being intimidated to the point that they were forced to move out. Some even had the gall to say that it wasn't racist or hateful in nature. Did I see the black gang members who lived in that area speak out against this hate crime, or the black politicians? No I didn't.

*Again, you're not telling me anything, based on the fact that I've previously stated-ad infinitum-THAT BLACK FOLKS ARE NO ANGELS!!!!! Having said that, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH BLACK FOLKS DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST MEXICANS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS, WHO SEEK TO ULTIMATELY KILL, CONTAIN, AND ANNIHILATE THEM!!!

You see, I am flexible and can chew gum, and walk at the same time. In other words, I can condemn the racism of those blacks upon asians, and other non-black folks wantonly, and STILL CALL BLACK FOLKS TO ARMS AGAINST AN ATTEMPTED GENOCIDE BY RACIST MEXICANS AND WHITE FOLKS! Whether it be on the streets, or in the prison systems!!!

What? Just because some black folks commit, some acts of racism, that now takes away from my arguments about black folks defending themselves???

-Or an even better example, the L.A. riots. I posted this out previously, but EME higher ups (from a newspaper article I read) were particularly incensed that black gangs were indiscriminately beating up latino civilians out on the streets.

*I agree that this occured, because many of the mexicans were being mistakened for white folks, as well as the fact that many of them were letting off their steam, in regards to mexicans and their racism!

Another thing that's interesting in this whole matter, is the fact that you had a whole slew of rioters that were mexican, as well as mexicans, and other latinos robbing and looting asian stores. Also, you had a couple of mexicans beating up white folks, along with the black rioters.

There was this one white guy, who was foolishly delivering the "gospel" amidst the rioting, who was attacked and beaten down so severely, to where he was left comatose.

-I don't recall the mayor of L.A. calling for an end to the hate crimes committed by black gang members against innocent civilians. I might also mention, on the flip side, that many black civilians risked their own lives to protect the lives of latinos, whites, asians, during the riots.

I'm not the biggest expert on gangs/gang politics, but it has to be more than coincidence that race relations between black and latino gangs got worse since the riots and have never improved. A lot of it has to do with power and money, and this had to have solidified gangs based on racial lines.

*Now mind you, I'm not sugar coating any of what had occurred, but if you're trying to convince me, that the hatred that I've seen coming from mexicans onto blacks, is due to the L.A. riots of the 90's-I'D SAY THAT YOU'RE LYING!! Why? Because look at all what white folks have done to your people (I'm assuming you're mexican), including the zoot-suit riots, but yet those racist, flatigious, devilish beasts (La Eme) will still ally with white supremacists, and have as the head of its' organization-A WHITE MAN!!!!!

So naw man, I will condemn black folks wrongdoings, but if you're trying to make the ultimate link now, to what happened then, then mexicans ought to make those same links to white folks, and how they've historically oppress mexicans, BUT THEY DON'T!!! That's why I call mexicans that are racist "devils" and THE NEW WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!

I'm out for now, but will be back next week. Peace!

[stateraised2000]

whewwwwwwwwww...no more lng ass posts till monday...

[blakman]

I will stand and fight as a black man for the brothers and sisters who are unwilling to stand up for themselves and see that we are being attacked by racist people who want nothing but our distruction and I will not sit here and let it go down like that. Not without blowing sh_t up first.
peace.

[E`S`T]

LOL...^^^^^

[stateraised2000]

ha ha, "the real" got the miltants all pumped up now...

[wcrockets]

This is a reply for The Real:

*No, I have many viewpoints, which leads back to one point, or center.

Me: I'm sure you do but the aggregate of your posts leaves one looking at the core of a linear one-dimensional argument based on the "epiphany" you seem to have had regarding your whole "mexicans are the new nazis" argument.

*If you're claiming that I'm a flamethrower for my point of view, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT! There's no shame in my game, as it relates to the information I'm putting forth. However, if you're saying that I have an agenda that I'm trying to put forth, THEN YOU'RE WRONG!!! I address the issues that are of interest to me: nothing more, nothing less! And you know what? I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ATTACH MYSELF ONTO AN ARGUMENT THAT I FEEL IS INTERESTING, OR THAT PIQUES MY CURIOSITY!

ME: Yes you do but it is shallow and isolates people from you to shove your opinion down everyone's throat in such a one-dimensional manner. You would be taken much more seriously if you were able to converse on many subjects in a non one dimensional manner showing other races the respect you expect. In other words, valuing people higher than simply harranging them with your mission.

*Hell yeah I can admit to being wrong in certain areas! Did I not say that I ultimately wish for you and other folks to be right, and me wrong, for the cause of greater humanity? Just read over all my information!

Me: A martyr's position is being taken here. The only problem is that you aren't one. You just think you are. But that's good you can admit to being wrong. Any wise person will including myself.

*Part of my solution will only entail violence, if needs be. In other words, I believe in forming defense militias against predators within the black race, as well as without, similar to the black panthers. The black panthers formed their organization in order to deal with police brutality, similar to the deacons for defense in Louisiana-even though they focused mainly on white supremacists in general. I'm shocked that you folks haven't figured that out yet! I'm not advocating violence for the sake of violence, rather for self-defense purposes!! The fact that you have mexican gangs, along with their white allies, making war on black gangs and people in general, that is outside the framework of normal gang confrontations, but are leaking into the areas of racism and genocide, only compels me to argue for unity amongst black gangs: not in necessarily giving up their identity or space, but rather a unity of purpose against mexican gangs, who seek their annihilation SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK! Remember, many blacks view mexican gangs and them fighting blacks, as just simple gang warfare, whereas mexicans that are fighting black folks, SEE IT AS A RACE WAR! So why am I the bad guy, for asking black gangs to reassess their enemy (mexican gang members, in this instance), and view them as a group of folks hell-bent on genocidal purposes, with the philosophy of "OPEN SEASON ON ALL N!GGERS!" Why am I wrong for telling black folks, that when you deal with such a beast, that you should decapitate that devil, and hang them on a cross as a symbol to any devil that tries to cause genocide and containment of their people!!

Me: Well allow me to retort with my own long informed post.. lol. Most educated people in the USA, that I have talked too feel the types of organization(s) which, if I am hearing you correctly, you are expousing for people to create and join to "defend the Black race" would simply be filled by some and most likely just be the graduation to the next level for the unrepentant gangmember not already locked down and caught up in prison gang culture. The truth is The Real is that the black population's not going along for that ride. They aren't going to polarize their race by turning their neighborhoods into Black only armed enclaves conferring their will and future into the hands of a few radical extremists pretty much ensuring near complete isolation and poverty for their people. Honestly your "solution" would only lead to more Black heartache and suffering one hundred fold to today's. Especially after the backlash happened.

The synergy you are looking for, in my opinion, would simply create a rerun of what did not already work in the 60's (with few exceptions) resulting in yet another generation of young people's lives being greatly harmed. (Most of the hardened charismatic gangmembers of the sixties, for example, that formed and joined these types of organizations ended dead, in prison, or changed and worked for or are working within the system to bring change).

The vast majority of the hyper-idealistic movements of the previous century went bad as well. The cause was not the due to a lack of motivation on the part of the movement's members but rather was doomed from the start as the hyper-idealistic philosophical premises don't translate into real world reality well (ie Take the "Communism" experiments for example). Along the way they did great harm to a great many people. The ones that did work (ie Cuba) resulted in persecution and economic decline. The reason is because after the revolution, there was not a transfer of power back to the people. If there had been, the situation that exists today (ie sanctions) would not exist today. People who are good at tearing things down often are not the best people to build things back up differently afterwards. And history shows that despots who run revolutions don't want to relenquish power voluntarily. In the revolutionary philosophies you appear to be expousing, in my opinion, there never will be a peaceful transfer of power back to the people by the revolutionaries. That is simply idealism which WILL NOT transfer into reality afterwards.

An alternative view would be for members to develop a social consience, of course, but without attempting to copy the failed patterns of the past. Perhaps, applying the idealism in a nonviolent way today and working with the existing systems might be a good place to start. Build families, educate politically, take back your spending and economic power from Wall Street, get the young people to put down the gun and pick up books. You could start with the Bible.

Your rage is understandable but that doesn't mean people, families, and organizations of people aren't getting over within the system and without the consequences of what your argument will bring on them. It just means it takes more effort and time than the ones who have the luxury of the silver spoon in their mouth. I've done it this way myself and some of the benefits are: increased character and personal growth.

Honestly The Real, revolutionaries band together to tear things down but real men band together to build that which lasts. It's easy to grab up a biscuit and start changing your heart into a stone in the name of a hyper-idealistic political philosophy because of the hate inside you. The problem is that it doesn't get you where you need to go. It will just pit you against a much larger majority of people that will resist you. You will become a pawn of whatever organization you choose to join and live in bondage to it and it's rules. Historically the infighting and killing that can go on in these organizations is pretty hairy. You trade a good measure of liberty found in a Democracy for a very authoritarian environment that keeps you in bondage. There will be blood on your hands and you will not have a heart of love but of stone. I don't want that for anyone. I certainly don't go on message boards urging people to throw themselves away like that. I want to see them build themselves and their loved ones up.

So instead of fighting against a system that is working for most people in this country, why not start to harness the opportunities inside it to affect change for you and your future generations. Many have gone before you and succeeded. It is hard and there is failures along with successes but along the way you gain true character instead of the idealized vision of it you see in your inner mind.

Get real. Start with yourself. Get out the chalk and draw a circle around you. That's where to start. With everything in that circle not everything else outside it. The paradox is that you can't do it all by yourself. You need that higher power to ultimately succeed (ie God).

*When this country goes to war with other nations, and try to kill their enemies, in the name of national defense, and it is justified, then why can't I, or other blacks do the same-seeing as how mexican racists and white supremacists agendas for black folks, aren't all too pretty! Hell, at least I'm talking about striking back, when attacked, unlike many (not all) mexican racists and white supremacists! Their collective philosophy is-AGAIN: "Kill a n!gger, no matter gang affiliation, or not!" And what I'm arguing is that it will get worst, particularly in the southwestern portions of the U.S. for black folks-JUST WAIT AND SEE!!

ME: Countries with legitimate governments that defend themselves or fight illegitimate governments ruled by despots is one thing. A gang of people from one race that form together to essentially produce a "hate group" and war on their "perceived" enemies (ie read anyone they don't like that looks different) inside a country is something entirely different from both a legal, historical, and moral perspective regardless of whether they are black, brown, yellow, white, purple, green, etc... As for self defense, that can take legitimate and illegitimate forms as well.

*Nope! And why would you think that????? [regarding nicknames].

ME: Because I don't know and this is the internet and we've had problems with trolls playing games in here before. Thank you for answering. I believe you are serious in what you believe now at this time.

*Noooooooooooo...did I not admit that whites and mexicans have interfamily squabbles amongst themselves?? I think I can recall me saying this on several occasions! True enough, you will have skirmishes between the two groups, now and then, HOWEVER, these two groups can still find it within the other group racially to unite on the points that I had addressed, from my previous post-and you, and other folks know this!!!

The thing these two groups have in common, besides being allies, and being members in each other’s organizations, IS THERE HATRED AND GENOCIDAL DESIGNS UPON THE BLACK COMMUNITY!!!! Let's be real about this!!!!

ME: The underground is like that. Above the surface though in the hundreds of thousands of churches, many businesses, integrated neighborhoods, and small communities all over America the vast majority of people work with, live with, have friendships with the Black Community. They have no genocidal designs. To me, you sound as if you've spent your whole life in the projects and never formed these bonds and seen what goes on in the rest of the world. I have Black friends from all over the place and I assure you I respect and love them and have none of the designs you are mentioning.

*No, I'm right in the sense that MOST mexicans are racist, as it stands now in 2003!

ME: I don't have those stats. I know in my church and community that is not so. I do suspect in the inner city the ratio is higher.

*Well, that's your opinion, but in my book, I feel that I covered all areas...

ME: I'm sure you do. Now we need to get back to admitting when we are not always right don't WE.

*Well I'm sorry if I'm not discussing this particular topic with a smile, or with a less sense of urgency, that others may want me to possess! I don't walk in the spirit of non-violence, nor do I wish to be a good "negro"! And as far as the word "devil", well if you were to read carefully, I'm not calling a whole race of people "devils", just those who manifest certain characteristics.

ME: Ok. Though violence begets violence so expect it to come back on you when you practice it.

*More importantly, YOU'RE WRONG! What it is, is that your assessment of my arguments is "all lopsided", because in the end, you're seeing what you want to see, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT I HAD WRITTEN!

ME: I have a brain. I'm an educated person who has been around. Your argument doesn't move me because it's a shallow rerun of what has already not worked.

*This statement right here just let's me know that you're trying to engage in sarcasm, based on certain remarks of mine-but it doesn't work. Here's a suggestion: go back and read the context and subtext, of why I had used the word "angels", in my discussion. If you don't, then you'll be relegated to what you're doing now-taking a text, out of context, which is a pretext (falsely stated purpose)!

ME: No I wasn't. I believe in angels. I am a Christian.

*Say man, if you're getting metaphysical and esoteric with a brother, please calm down. Right now, you appear to be so bent out of shape, from what I've said, to where you're placing quotation marks around the word "angels", as if my use of the word, fell under your definition, of how you're using it!!

ME: I'm not bent. We're having a discussion. If you were talking to me you would see a calm person in front of you. I might make a face or two when you say something I disagree with but I'm listening.. It's a discussion. I can use quotations if I want to same as you. They are on my keyboard. You do realize that typing in all caps constitutes yelling at someone don't you.

*I hope you're right, but with this younger generation-I don't know...

ME: The younger generation has reached out a lot more than the older one in this country in my experience. I haven't seen any stats to support it but are you seeing a backlash or something?

*You know why? BECAUSE I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE GOOD WHITE FOLKS THAT ASSISTED BLACK PEOPLE WITH THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS!!! The context of my discussion was talking about those "good" white, or mexican folks, who claim not to be haters and racists, yet they tolerate, and live easily and comfortably, with the racism coming from their people, and how their people exercise that racism, in order to oppress and suppress, the movement of others: THAT'S WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO!!!

Within the context, of the issue I was addressing, I didn't make a logical miscalculation! Okay, if you want me to admit that there were white folks that helped black people attain many of their rights-I WILL ADMIT THAT, if it makes you feel good, but know this: THAT WASN'T THE POINT, NOT EVEN THE SUBTEXT, OF WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING!! (For further clarification of what I was getting at, just reread the post, this man has a problem with.)

ME: It should be though as it looks like you're trying to organize by race a militant organization(s) in pursuit of your idealist philisophy which as I've already previously shown doesn't work and just makes things worse. The masses don't need more racial tension they need to less. Historically, if a true revival swept this country a LOT more good would be accomplished in the Black Community than any hyper-idealistic race war.

*Look, I'm not foolish enough to think that "lower class whites" were total victims, of the hegemony machine, that was in operation by their elitist white brethren. Truth be told, many of your "lower class whites" had a vested interest in keeping blacks beneath them, in the sense that-IF THEY COULDN'T BE BETTER THAN BLACK FOLKS, THEN WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM!!!!

White elitists in the south didn't teach these lower class whites about racism, that dilemma started from the ground up! White folk were collectively racist in the south, because they were products of white supremacy and white privilege!! Another thing-it doesn't matter if many of their elitist brethren were pulling strings, in order to maintain the status quo, because 1) many of the lower class whites would rather have their own kind (white folks) being in a position of power oppressing them, which essentially gave them hope, or self-esteem despite their circumstances-WHITE FOLKS WERE STILL IN CONTROL; and 2) lower class whites, despite their "exploitation" by the hands of their elitist brethren, were some willing “exploitees!!” In other words, they hated black folks so intensely, despite allegedly being pawns in a larger game, so to speak-THAT MANY OF THEM HATED BLACK FOLKS, MORE SO THAN THEY LOVED THEIR OWN CHILDREN!! And you know this!

ME: Ok, I defer to you here. I've taken a lot of history and am well read but that doesn't make me an expert on the South and you may be.

*Most of the whites that joined the Civil Rights movement, were from up north, and they were primarily jewish. Now this isn't to say that whites from the south didn't help in the Civil Rights movement, rather, I'm just adding a bit of historical perspective to your statements.

Secondly, when you say that "many good people of all races" helped to bring about "Civil Rights movement's victories", don't make it sound as if there were a drove of asians and mexicans, heading down south, in order to help black folks get the right to vote, etc. Now I will admit, folks like Joan Baez, and probably a few other non-blacks, who were non-white, aided and abetted black folks during this time, but it was miniscule in comparison to white folks.

White folks were the only non-black group (and I'm including jews, even though many whites and others, don't view jews as being white) in droves, to really assist black folks back in the day!

ME: Ok. I accept that.

-Also, it's interesting that every single one of his posts to date are in threads entitled "Re: race war: blacks vs mexicans PART 2," "Re: If B's and C's united, could they take out Mexican gangs," "Re: WHAT DOES 13 MEAN," "Re: CHOLOS AND CHOLAS," "Re: Los Angeles County Jail? [posting his, in my opinion, is his mexican=white racist argument]", and lastly "Man, cut the BS! [talking about the clothes thing]."

*Uh...as I said earlier: I HAVE A RIGHT TO ADDRESS THE TOPICS THAT I FIND INTERESTING, AND WHY DOES IT THREATEN YOU??

ME: It doesn't threaten me I am just seeking to understand you better and if all of your 34 posts are related to one position then that should be brought out so we know that.

*Would you ask a soldier on the battlefield, whose duty is to defend his ground, and possibly the people he’s looking after, whether or not he was obsessed? Would you ask the farmer whose land is overrun with insects eating up his produce, if he were obsessed, if he decided to use pesticides on his fruits and vegetables? Or better yet, would you have asked Martin Luther King if he were obsessed with his drive, to bring about freedom for black people, whether you agreed, or disagreed with King’s ultimate goals? Of course you wouldn’t, so why ask such a question of me?

ME: In my opinion, you are a self-commissioned soldier fighting the battle in the wrong way for the wrong reasons in my opinion. I disagree with your approach and have already stated why. I would never compare you to Dr Martin Luther King based on your hypothesis. And I do believe he is RIP.

As I said earlier, I, like anyone else here, am addressing topics that interest me personally, no more, no less. Trust me, it’s not a mystery!!

ME: Ok.

What’s more important is the integrity of my information, and the truth that is contained therein. Peace.

ME: I think your argument is flawed and in error. Peace.

[Representando]

Young Nile stop it with your stupid "the other day i was talking to a Mexican" please man shut up, all you want to do is make the Mexicans look bad. And what if I went to spain? So what? What the hell would they call me? I don't think they would call me anything, about a week ago I was watching this show in a Mexican channel (Toma Libre) and Facundo the guy who hosts the show was in spain wearing a shirt that said Mexico on it, he also told them he was Mexican and they were cool with him and happy to meet him. They never called him anthing, they treated him like everyone else.

*Look man, SPANISH ARE WHITE!!

-You mean where white because in Spain and in Mexico about 85% of the population (or more) have brown skin. The other percent may have white skin but they don't have the characteristics of a real white person and also even if they are white they are mestizos but they just happened to come out with light (or lite don't know) skin.

[jb7777]

Spanish dont look any browner than Sicilians and the only reason that they have that color is because they were conquered by the moors.(african muslims)Otherwise Spanish, Sicilians, and Portuguese would look like the Germans, French,and other caucasions...however they are no where near the brown of most other "Latinos"

[Representando]

What you said about Spaniards being not as brown as sicilians that may be true but then again we use the word blacks to refer to african americans but are they really black I mean the actual color? No they are dark brown,light brown some very light skinned. Also we sometimes use the word whites for americans, canadians w/e but are they really the color white? No they have peach colored skin some even rosy kind of colored skin. Most latin people have light brown skin. Also what I was referring to was that most Spaniards and Mexicans have light brown skin, when I said brown I didn't actually mean the color brown but thats the way some of us refer to the skin color of different kinds of races.

[Anonymous20]

Hello all,

"In regards to this original topic, growing up in the 80's I hardly ever heard about widespread Black/Mexican racial conflicts."

In the late 70's/mid 80's most if not all gang wars were within their own race. It was common to interact with members of another race who shared the same turfs.

"It seems like the L.A. riots was a turning point."

I'd most certainly agree with that assertion. I believe it had something to do with a few incidents involving violence on mexicans during the uprise. It is my recollection that the sureno's/mexican mafia ordered unity and a cease fire amongst latino gangs for revenge.

Every since then it appears MOST mexican gangs have provoked or engaged with war on black gangs sharing the same turf. Alot of these sets live next door to one another and grew up together.

The Rascals- Longo's, 18- BPS/20's, ECC- F13, ETC.)

The outcome of these beefs can make dramatic changes from the streets to prison. On the streets the Latino's have no beef with the Rollin 60's, but in jail they have greenlights. In prison they have no time for small wars, they must downplay their beefs with ECC, 60's, etc and prepare for the Norte's, and sometimes the AB's and other white Prison Gangs.

"What I find most tragic is the inability of the mainstream media to pay more attention to this problem. It seems that if White people are not involved, no one cares a hoot what race kills or butchers the other."

Well it has been said that most white gangs operate for and under the mexicans on the streets. I believe its the Nazi Low Riders or some click in Whitier and Inland Empire. And what white gangs have beef with black gangs in the inner city? lol So until the 60's strike again in Westwood you're right.......you may be the only one who cares! I don't.

[TheReal]

Read my full rebuttal, further down this page...

[Anonymous20]

Man when did you write that book?!?!

I wanted to respond, agree and/or disagree but it was so long, i'd rather read other post and play Yahoo Spades. LOL

[wattscrackin]

lolllllllll i thought i wuz trippin when i saw that shit earlier, dammnnnnn i didnt know people had that kinda patience....

[Anonymous20]

lolllllllll i thought i wuz trippin when i saw that stuff earlier, dammnnnnn i didnt know people had that kinda patience....

With my low azz dial-up connection it froze the first time I opened it up! lol