King Tut controversy.

[never die inside]

Then why the hell would ancient Egyptians think differently from you?

Oh let me guess they must be wrong just because you believe differently.

Listen. They made the bust white looking for money. More people will come and pay money. Yeah wutever.

But you can't buy history. History is still legitimate. Its still real. History doesn't change because some guy wanted to make money.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Then why the hell would ancient Egyptians think differently from you?

Oh let me guess they must be wrong just because you believe differently.

Listen. They made the bust white looking for money. More people will come and pay money. Yeah wutever.

But you can't buy history. History is still legitimate. Its still real. History doesn't change because some guy wanted to make money.

First of all the King Tut bust looks arab or persian not "white".

And you are right you can't change history and you can't also change the fact that King Tut was not black or white.

[never die inside]

Then why the hell would ancient Egyptians think differently from you?

Oh let me guess they must be wrong just because you believe differently.

Listen. They made the bust white looking for money. More people will come and pay money. Yeah wutever.

But you can't buy history. History is still legitimate. Its still real. History doesn't change because some guy wanted to make money.

First of all the King Tut bust looks arab or persian not "white".

And you are right you can't change history and you can't also change the fact that King Tut was not black or white.

The lineage of Egytian Kings were clearly African.

Look at this guy! From your own link!

[img]http://www.crystalinks.com/tutka.gif[/img]

Even the greek writer Herodotus said Egyptians were Black. Where is the evidence that all of a sudden, Egyptian kings weren't Black?

Do u see any Black presidents in the US? If you think that every society has a leader who is the "middle shade" of its citizens, then the next 50 presidents of the USA should be Black, Asian or Mexican just to balance out the white presidents.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What part of Herodotus seeing Egyptians when Egypt had been already been conquered by the Nubians from the south of Egypt do you not understand?

And didn't, I mention already why the Ancient Egyptians were painted black?

the black skin tone was a reference to the earth and thus, given that these are ka images of the sovereign, emphasizes indestructibility of the creative nature of the king, evoking the aspects of rebirth and cyclical resurrection of Osiris.

If you are going to use my links atleast read what the hell it says.

[never die inside]

What part of Herodotus seeing Egyptians when Egypt had been already been conqured by the Nubians from the south of Egypt do you not understand?

And didn't, I mention already why the Ancient Egyptians were painted black?

the black skin tone was a reference to the earth and thus, given that these are ka images of the sovereign, emphasizes indestructibility of the creative nature of the king, evoking the aspects of rebirth and cyclical resurrection of Osiris.

Of course to Africans, Black was considered to be a symbol of life and vitality. Duh... they're black.

And there is no evidence that they weren't black before Nubians came. Of course they were still black. Even Ethiopians are considered Hamitic.

All the archaelogical evidence says they are black. Just show me one solid 100% piece of evidence that shows ancient Egyptians weren't Black and there is a better artifact that this one here.

[img]http://www.catchpenny.org/images/tut2.gif[/img]

[Dr. Gonzo]

What part of Herodotus seeing Egyptians when Egypt had been already been conqured by the Nubians from the south of Egypt do you not understand?

And didn't, I mention already why the Ancient Egyptians were painted black?

the black skin tone was a reference to the earth and thus, given that these are ka images of the sovereign, emphasizes indestructibility of the creative nature of the king, evoking the aspects of rebirth and cyclical resurrection of Osiris.

And there is no evidence that they weren't black before Nubians came. Of course they were still black. Even Ethiopians are considered Hamitic.

All the archaelogical evidence says they are black. Just show me one solid 100% piece of evidence that shows ancient Egyptians weren't Black.

The people from Ham were also "white".

And if the Egyptians were black before before the Nubians invaded them, Why the hell then would ancient Egyptians use Henna to darken their skin?

If they were black why would they use Henna on their skin and hair?

They wouldn't need to right? Their skin was already dark according to you.

[Dr. Gonzo]

"All the archaelogical evidence says they are black".

What archaelogical evidence?

You have yet to show any.

[never die inside]

The people from Ham were also "white".

And if the Egyptians were black before before the Nubians invaded them, Why the hell then would ancient Egyptians use Henna to darken their skin?

If they were black why would they use Henna on their skin and hair?

They wouldn't need to right? Their skin was already dark according to you.

If they covered the man made Bust of King Tut with Henna, then I wouldn't really complain. They should follow ancient Egyptian customs out of respect.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The people from Ham were also "white".

And if the Egyptians were black before before the Nubians invaded them, Why the hell then would ancient Egyptians use Henna to darken their skin?

If they were black why would they use Henna on their skin and hair?

They wouldn't need to right? Their skin was already dark according to you.

If they covered the man made Bust of King Tut with Henna, then I wouldn't really complain. They should follow ancient Egyptian customs out of respect.

Why are you dodging the question?

Why did ancient Egyptians use Henna to darken their skin if they were always black like you say they were?

[willihen]

I thought we were done with this.

Not black Not white.

lets simplify.

Nubians = Black with mixture of Arabic features (Not sub saharan)
Eygptians = Arabic with mixture of Med. caucasian some mixed with Nubian

[willihen]

check it out

Why the caucasian features on the drawings and sculptures if they
were all black.

[Anonymous20]

Well personally I thought that bust of Menes, said to be the first pharaoh, has many black characteristics, the nose and lips.

[Dr. Gonzo]

check it out

Why the caucasian features on the drawings and sculptures if they
were all black.

Have you not been reading the replies of Ancient Tribes of America?

No matter how much you prove that for the most part Ancient Egyptians were NOT black he keeps on insisting they were.

It's starting to get pathetic. All he is doing is going by his own thoughts and opinions instead of actual facts.

[willihen]

I'm with you on this

[Dr. Gonzo]

Well personally I thought that bust of Menes, said to be the first pharaoh, has many black characteristics, the nose and lips.

An Olmec statue also has black features like the nose and lips.

Does that mean he was black aswell?

[img]http://img269.echo.cx/img269/2460/olmec8ds.jpg[/img]

[willihen]

check it out

Why the caucasian features on the drawings and sculptures if they
were all black.

Have you not been reading the replies of Ancient Tribes of America?

No matter how much you prove that for the most part Ancient Egyptians were NOT black he keeps on insisting they were.

It's starting to get pathetic. All he is doing is going by his own thoughts and opinions instead of actual facts.

As Technology advances Scientists become better equipt and understand more.
Lets look at the bust on your first post. Thats more accurate than anything posted by Ancient tribes.
So lets just say....Any questions, check out the bust by the Frog Scientist

[Anonymous20]

Hey check this out. All types of people are on those drawings haha

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

But about race it is hard to completely define a skin color or certain people once again in a little box, it just doesn't exist. People are gonna try finding new and new characteristics (or boundaries) to try n categorize but it doesnt go that way, it's never gonna end. Like I said, I don't believe skin color was an issue back then and they were all over it like this is going. There were black, persian, meds, whatever you wanna name it mixing and since Egypy was a big empire I think it's natural other people often went there for merchandising and all, like a crossroad of neighbouring peoples. These discussions always come out like this. And some people go even as far to think that just coz theire skin color ressembles, they can relate to the culture and egyptian heritage, that's BS.

[Cold Bear]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OLMEC STATUE
yes probably partially of African descent. Just like there were findings of African descended groups in Thailand and many other points in Southeast Asia.

Also Gonzo, can you post proof that they were white? I know there are many light Egyptians. I know this lady who could pass for light Arabic who is Egyptian - very fair skinned, and yet her sons are brown and have African hair.

If Egypt is heavily populated by Blacks now, and when Herodotus wrote about, it was the same way... and the whole fact of it BEING IN AFRICA (use some common sense, fool), how much can it really be non-blacks populating it as a majority?

Your whole Henna argument is weak as hell. Just cause somebody is light-skinned doesn't make them not black, fool. Black people also tan. You're a dumb motherfucker if you're thinking, "They can't wear Henna cause it won't show up on their dark dark skin". Fool, that's like saying Blacks don't get tattoos cause it won't show up on them.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Hey check this out. All types of people are on those drawings haha

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

But about race it is hard to completely define a skin color or certain people once again in a little box, it just doesn't exist. People are gonna try finding new and new characteristics (or boundaries) to try n categorize but it doesnt go that way, it's never gonna end. Like I said, I don't believe skin color was an issue back then and they were all over it like this is going. There were black, persian, meds, whatever you wanna name it mixing and since Egypy was a big empire I think it's natural other people often went there for merchandising and all, like a crossroad of neighbouring peoples. These discussions always come out like this. And some people go even as far to think that just coz theire skin color ressembles, they can relate to the culture and egyptian heritage, that's BS.

Of course the ancient Egyptians at one point were black they were conquered by the Nubians but that was near the end of ancient Egyptian civilization not beginning of their rule.

[willihen]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OLMEC STATUE
yes probably partially of African descent. Just like there were findings of African descended groups in Thailand and many other points in Southeast Asia.

Also Gonzo, can you post proof that they were white? I know there are many light Egyptians. I know this lady who could pass for light Arabic who is Egyptian - very fair skinned, and yet her sons are brown and have African hair.

If Egypt is heavily populated by Blacks now, and when Herodotus wrote about, it was the same way... and the whole fact of it BEING IN AFRICA (use some common sense, fool), how much can it really be non-blacks populating it as a majority?

Your whole Henna argument is weak as hell. Just cause somebody is light-skinned doesn't make them not black, fool. Black people also tan. You're a dumb motherfucker if you're thinking, "They can't wear Henna cause it won't show up on their dark dark skin". Fool, that's like saying Blacks don't get tattoos cause it won't show up on them.

Gonzo didn't say they were white.

[Cold Bear]

Well the question is who was populating that area before Nubians conquered it. You can say all you want that it was Arabs with more Caucasian influence, but to say they were not Black is saying they had no African blood, which is close to unbelievable.

[Anonymous20]

Hey check this out. All types of people are on those drawings haha

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

But about race it is hard to completely define a skin color or certain people once again in a little box, it just doesn't exist. People are gonna try finding new and new characteristics (or boundaries) to try n categorize but it doesnt go that way, it's never gonna end. Like I said, I don't believe skin color was an issue back then and they were all over it like this is going. There were black, persian, meds, whatever you wanna name it mixing and since Egypy was a big empire I think it's natural other people often went there for merchandising and all, like a crossroad of neighbouring peoples. These discussions always come out like this. And some people go even as far to think that just coz theire skin color ressembles, they can relate to the culture and egyptian heritage, that's BS.

Of course the ancient Egyptians at one point were black they were conquered by the Nubians but that was near the end of ancient Egyptian civilization not beginning of their rule.

I'm just saying this race issue is getting completely stupid. Who's black, who's white, who's who, what color, just trying to define imaginary boundaries right there you know you can't get to the bottom of this. The egyptians didn't even believe in skin color and their society reflected that, the paintings and all, the colors, it mainly revolved around nationality, not with this stupid concept of 'race' which doesnt even exist.

---------------
This said, we might ask, "What color were the ancient Egyptians?" Being on the continent, Egypt has always been an African civilization though it straddles two regions, Africa and the Middle East. It's fairly clear that the cultural roots of ancient Egypt lie in Africa and not in Asia. Egypt was a subtropical desert environment and its people had migrated from various ethnic groups over its history (and prehistory), thus it was something of a "melting pot," a mixture of many types of people with many skin tones, some certainly from the Sub-Saharan regions and others from more Mediterranean climes. It is impossible to categorize these people into the tidy "black" and "white" terms of today's racial distinctions. The Egyptians are better classified using evidence of their language and their material cultures, historical records, and their physical remains because so-called "racial" identification has been elusive, much for the reasons cited above. Skulls have been measured and compared and DNA tests attempted in various forms, but conclusions are few. Skulls are more similar to those found in the Northern Sudan and less similar to those found in West Africa, Palestine, and Turkey. It seems that there has been some genetic continuity from Predynastic time through the Middle Kingdom, after which there was a considerable infiltration into the Nile Valley from outside populations. That the Egyptians by and large were dark is certain, and many must have been what we today call "black."
It is apparent that the ancient Egyptians did not make racial distinctions themselves, but rather ethnic distinctions based on nationality. Tomb paintings depicting captive Nubians may show them as being very dark, but this is an artistic convention stereotyping a nationality, and to conclude there were therefore no very dark Egyptians would be a non sequitur. Similarly, the skin tones in art depicting the Egyptians themselves adhere to convention rather than an absolutely accurate description of reality. Tutankhamun is variously shown as being black as in the guardian statues found in his tomb, and brown or beige as in the lotus bust (see photos above).

There has been a spate of controversy of late between "Afrocentric" authors and their critics, but the truth is that Egyptologists are not involved in some massive conspiracy of lies designed to subjugate black populations, as has often been charged. Indeed, most modern Egyptologists are rather taciturn when it comes to the subject of race. Nor have the black Africans been "robbed" of their legacy. Civilization as it exists today is the culmination of the historical development of mankind, layer upon layer from ancient times to modern, each group contributing its share to the whole. Through human interaction, whether by trade or warfare, ideas, reform, and invention are assimilated, adapted, and again dispersed. It's the nature of history regardless of ethnicity. To make petty and arbitrary distinctions based on human physical appearance is divisive and can only lead to wanton racist misuse. No good can come of it beyond establishing immediate and limited familial ties; beyond this the discussion of race has no place in science. We can safely conclude that the ancient Egyptians were of various skin colors, few of which were light judging by the climate.



The bottom line, is egyptians were a mixed people (like everybody is deep down, but with characteristics of the neighbouring people), not 'black', not 'persian' or whichever other fuckin name you wanna call it just to make racist divisions. I don't understand this whole thing about race man, if the egyptians themselves didn't go by race (they went by nationality, religion) and that we're talking about them, why are we trying to apply race and skin color to their civilization?

[Dr. Gonzo]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OLMEC STATUE
yes probably partially of African descent. Just like there were findings of African descended groups in Thailand and many other points in Southeast Asia.

Also Gonzo, can you post proof that they were white? I know there are many light Egyptians. I know this lady who could pass for light Arabic who is Egyptian - very fair skinned, and yet her sons are brown and have African hair.

If Egypt is heavily populated by Blacks now, and when Herodotus wrote about, it was the same way... and the whole fact of it BEING IN AFRICA (use some common sense, fool), how much can it really be non-blacks populating it as a majority?

Your whole Henna argument is weak as hell. Just cause somebody is light-skinned doesn't make them not black, fool. Black people also tan. You're a dumb motherfucker if you're thinking, "They can't wear Henna cause it won't show up on their dark dark skin". Fool, that's like saying Blacks don't get tattoos cause it won't show up on them.

Second when the hell did, I say ancient Egyptians were white?

Concerning Henna just because someone is light-skinned it could also mean their non black. You're argument works both ways.

And as for you're retarded Olmec statement "yes probably partially of African descent". their has been zero proof found that they were black. If you're going to make stupid statements like that why not provide proof you idiot.

[Cold Bear]

You're the one not providing proof. Egypt is IN AFRICA, you slow ass. Light or not, Egyptians always had 'black blood'. just like Sicilians also have black blood. Don't be mad because the argument you made about Henna is weak as fuck fool.

Also, why would Olmecs build statues that are NOT in their own image?

[Cold Bear]

My point is I KNOW Egyptians that are light-skinned. But their kids, MIRACULOUSLY, are dark and have African hair etc. How the f*ck did that happen? LOL

[se11]

damn you people were really going at it.

i have to agree with Gonzo and those who say that ancient egyptians and not africans.

gonzo, chill out. ancient tribes of america and others posts a whole bunch of shit that isnt proven or anything. he sees one article so it must be true. just like acmewhitebread, they post the shit only they want to see and dont bother looking at the other half of the argument.

[Cold Bear]

Ancient Egyptians ARE technically Africans since Egypt is IN Africa. Are Italians not Europeans cause they have Black blood? Or Slavs because they have Mongolian blood? Egyptians are Africans but they are mixed. Taking away their Blackness is denying a major part of their identity.

[Dr. Gonzo]

First of I'm an idiot? First of what, the month?

You're the one not providing proof. Stupid Retard? LOL. Egypt is IN AFRICA, you slow ass. Light or not, Egyptians always had 'black blood'. just like Sicilians also have black blood. Don't be mad because the argument you made about Henna is weak as fu-- fool.

Also, why would Olmecs build statues that are NOT in their own image?

Egypt is in Africa argument is the most idiotic thing, I ever heard it's really pathetic.

I don't know if you know this but in South Africa their is white people. Do you wanna know why their is white people in South Africa?

Because they migrated from the North. You know Europe.

What the hell makes you think peoople did not migrate to North Africa 3000 years ago?

Was their some kind of border that kept all the non blacks out?

Because of that's the case how do you explain the persians and arabs coming to Egypt?

Also you're sicilians having black blood proves my argument even more thanks by the way. The reason sicilians have black blood is because they were conquered by the Moors who happened to be black just like the Nubians when they conquered Egypt.

And what the hell are you talking about with "Also, why would Olmecs build statues that are NOT in their own image?"

The Olmecs look exactly like Indians in Mexico and Guatemala look like now you stupid idiot.

[Cold Bear]

I thought you would try to bring South African whites in the mix. That's a whole different issue of colonization. YEAH, guy, I KNOW, that there are whites in Africa, that CAME from Europe. My point is, Egyptians have always been African, whether people came in from elsewhere and settled or not. Because Slavs look a little different from Norwegians because of Mongol influence, does that make them all of a sudden NOT WHITE? No. In the same way, because Egyptians had influence from other gene pools doesn't make them NOT BLACK.

"Stupid idiot, retard"... Gonzo you're playing yourself.

[blakman]

"The Egyptians were an African people ". Whites (yes this includes arabs as well) need to come to turms with it. African/black people are not going for it any longer. We have been on earth for 30000 thousand years and some scientist think that blacks have been on earth even longer then that.

The arrogance and the racism of these people have them thinking that Africans were waiting around doing nothing until arabs and europeans came along!! White people are new to the planet earth if you take in consideration how long blacks have been on the planet. They've only been on earth for 6000 years.

If you ask me, whites have been stealing black people accomplishment for the longest time man, and this King tut fiasco is just more proof of this.White people are despratly trying to hold on to this lie for as long as possible, because white people are slowly becoming obsolite!! Why do I say that, it's because white people aren't having babies any more and the population is declining rapidly!!!

Why you think 80% of all abortion clinics are in the black community and they are pushing all this condom nonsence on black people. To keep us from having babies and reproducing ourselves. Don't fall for that AIDS b.s, but's that for another topic!!!!

The truth is, we gave the world civilization,arts and culture and some people just can't accept that fact. But African/black people don't even care anymore what white people say and do anymore because we know that white people will do what white people do!! But don't expect black people to go along with it or to sit back and watch you try and steal our history and go around and tell the world what you did in ancient kemet(egypt) which you had no part in building.

[Sentenza]

Demographics

Main article: Demographics of Egypt

Egypt is the most populous Arab country, at about 74,000,000 people. Nearly all the population is concentrated along the River Nile, notably Alexandria and Cairo, and along the Nile Delta and near the Suez Canal. Approximately 90% of the population adheres to Islam and the remainder to Christianity (primarily the Coptic denomination).

The Egyptians are a fairly homogenous people. Mediterranean (such as Greek and Italian) and Arab influences appear in the North, and there are indigenous black populations in the South. Many theories has been proposed on the origins of the Egyptians, however none are conclusive, and the most widely accepted theory is that Egyptian society was the result of a mix of East African and Asiatic people who moved to the Nile Valley after the ice age. The bulk of Modern Egyptian society are heterogeneous but maintain cultural ties to the ancient Egyptian society which has always been regarded as rural and most populous compared to the neighbouring demographics. The Egyptian people spoke only languages from the Afro-Asiatic family (previously known as Hamito-semitic)

[Anonymous20]

"The Egyptians were an African people ". Whites (yes this includes arabs as well) need to come to turms with it. African/black people are not going for it any longer. We have been on earth for 30000 thousand years and some scientist think that blacks have been on earth even longer then that.

The arrogance and the racism of these people have them thinking that Africans were waiting around doing nothing until arabs and europeans came along!! White people are new to the planet earth if you take in consideration how long blacks have been on the planet. They've only been on earth for 6000 years.

If you ask me, whites have been stealing black people accomplishment for the longest time man, and this King tut fiasco is just more proof of this.White people are despratly trying to hold on to this lie for as long as possible, because white people are slowly becoming obsolite!! Why do I say that, it's because white people aren't having babies any more and the population is declining rapidly!!!

Why you think 80% of all abortion clinics are in the black community and they are pushing all this condom nonsence on black people. To keep us from having babies and reproducing ourselves. Don't fall for that AIDA b.s, but's that for another topic!!!!

The truth is, we gave the world civilization,arts and culture and some people just can't accept that fact. But African/black people don't even care anymore what white people say and do anymore because we know that white people will do what white people do!! But don't expect black people to go along with it or to sit back and watch you try and steal our history and go around and tell the world what you did in ancient kemet(egypt) which you had no part in building.

What a load of racist BS just adding oil to the fire. You're not even Egyptian. This history and heritage belongs to Egyptians first and foremost, the descendants of today and to those who have their roots in that land. Where do YOU come from, where are your roots at? If you're a black american, there are big chances that you come from West Africa and NOT even close to East Africa, not the same culture at all, forget the link to skin color, I'm talking about culture. Don't come here trying to mix BS using this and that of King Tutankhamon to make your point. Make your own thread for the subjects you speak on.