Velasquez:Santos, Pacquiao:Marquez

[mvwi1]

Is that right?

I'm assuming you're in disagreement but if you haven't seen it here is II highlights and III in HD for you. you tell us or maybe you see it different which is okay.

Good looks on the videos! As for the bolded, it wasn't that I disagreed but rather I didn't know as I don't really follow boxing tough.

[MCD]

You say one thing, then call me naive. Then you say something different?

Read what I wrote man instead of taking things out of context, I said I was talking about THIS fight. In THIS fight marquez cut up Pacquiao bad on TOP of scoring more points. I responded to your sarcasm by saying just because a fighter is cut up doesn't mean he lost, because some cut easily.

@MCD- Why do you hate Mayweather so much mane, he's a great fighter. The thing that stands out to me, was when Mayweather fought Marquez he seemed much bigger than Marquez and throughout the fight he was able to push Marquez around more than he typically does in a fight. I know that when the fight happens, Mayweather and Pacquio are going to be in incredible shape. Also I thought that Marquez pulled an upset against Pacquio and was cheated. Reminded me of the Winky Wright vs. Fernando Vargas fight when they were young fighters. Winky clearly out jabbed and countered vargas but vargas was given the decision because he was the rising star in the division. Nevertheless, I would love to see Marquez and Pacquiao do it again.

I just hate his fighting style and how his promoters set up his biggest fights against has-beens. And now Sergio Martinez fights like that, arms low, run, clinch, counter punch, run, clinch. Honestly they should start docking points for excessive clinching. I respect Mayweather as an athlete he didn't go undefeated by mistake, the guy works like crazy in camp and he's one of the fastest fighters out there, but for entertainment value he's at the bottom of my list.

But I see what you're saying about Wright and Vargas, it's all about protecting the upcoming "prodigy" and maximizing his market value. That's why Marquez needed to have a CONVINCING victory against Pacquiao but he couldn't quite do it. He started gassin out around RD 9 and got a little wild.

[~J~]

Before the fight, Freddie Roach said, this the best training camp they had.

I'm losing respect for Roach for flat out lying with nothing but copouts.

I just hate his fighting style and how his promoters set up his biggest fights against has-beens.

On the flipside you could definitely say the same about Manny's camp as they have been very calculated on when to pick their fights. most of the bigger named fighters have been busted up by someone else prior to the square off or at the tale end of their careers.

But I see what you're saying about Wright and Vargas, it's all about protecting the upcoming "prodigy" and maximizing his market value. That's why Marquez needed to have a CONVINCING victory against Pacquiao but he couldn't quite do it. He started gassin out around RD 9 and got a little wild.

This is true but Manny's market value is just too high for Marquez to touch him by nothing less then a KO. the promoter, odds makers and high-rollers who govern the cash flow just won't let the boxing skills speak for themselves.

[oso1]

@J, I agree 100% with your response to MCD's last comment.

Honestly, both are guilty of cherrypicking. I would have loved to have seen Mayweather fought Vernon Forrest, Cotto, and Margarito.

Pac & Roach on the other hand wait til they have all the advantages. They fight boxers who are coming off KO loses, catch weights, etc. etc. Theres numerous videos were Roach gives excuses why he won't, then why he will fight a fighter. Shane Mosley at one time was too good for Manny. Then when Mosley looks bad against Mora & Mayweather, its perfect timing for Pac to fight Shane.
At one time, Marg was to big and strong but after the war he had with Cotto, the KO loss he suffered from Mosley, also being suspened from boxing for a year. Roach knew this was the perfect timing. Forgot to mention, Marg had to fight Pac at a catch weight. With De La Hoya, Roach knew he couldn't pull the trigger anymore. Also, De La Hoya had to make 147lbs, a weight he hadn't fought at in years. Just before 06:08 of the video, Roach says they had a great training camp. But listen carefully to Roach after 6:08

[oso1]

Just like to add, James Smith thought Juan Manuel Marquez won his bout against Manny Pacquiao.

[oso1]

More excuses coming form the Pacquioa camp, but now the blame is pointed towards trainer, Freddie Roach.

http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-long- ... -of-boxing

BECOME AN EXAMINER
Why Roach not passing even after 7 years at Marquez's Science School of Boxing

EXCLUSIVE INSIDE EDITION with HOT POTATO via HOLLYWOOD, California - World Superstar Manny Pacquiao was perhaps the loneliest figure from round 4 through 12 when he fought the braveheart son of the Aztecs, Juan Manuel Marquez, in their trilogy at the MGM Grand Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada last November 12.

"That's true: Manny Pacquiao did it all by himself after round three," says one of the key figures (number 1) of Team Pacquiao who consented to be interviewed on condition of anonymity. "He was dealing with a trainer who may have less coherence of his thinking."

"When would you know that Roach is in the state of senility, being a victim of Parkinson's disease?" He points out Pacquiao's trainer Freddie Roach's known Parkinson's disease (Wikipedia).

"That's why Manny (Pacquiao) has become a bit confused, too, and was doing all by himself in solving Marquez's puzzle after round three because I think Freddie (Roach) himself even had no idea on how to deal with Marquez ," says another key figure (number 2) of Team Pacquiao who also consented to be interviewed on condition of anonymity.

"I wonder if Roach's Parkinson's disease and the medications he takes have something to do with his lapses during brainstorming moments," adds he who claims he had watched many closed-door sessions of Pacquiao's training and has observed Roach's tremendous decline in critical thinking.

"It's obvious he's being affected by the infirmity of Parkinson's disease. You see him, you see the symptoms. His health is fast-declining. And it's affecting Manny (Pacquiao) who relies on his analysis."

According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, "Parkinson's disease is a degenerative disorder of the central nervous system in which in later stage cognitive and behavioural problems may arise, with dementia commonly occurring in the advanced stages of the disease."

"It's going to be the most difficult decision for Manny (Pacquiao)," says the third source from Team Pacquiao noting further "Roach should now retire from Pacquiao's corner."

"If that's the case, Roach should not be training Manny (Pacquiao) anymore," he asserts thinking "it's too dangerous for any boxer to rely on someone who is no longer the same during periods when the medications he's taking are low in therapeutic range or it could be that Roach may have been unknowingly suffering from unknown side effects."

"I have observed on many ocassions that Roach is not thinking right and, sometimes, he's very hot tempered."

"I believe it's really Manny (Pacquiao) who made Roach become a great trainer, not the other way around. Not even about the chemistry of Manny (Pacquiao) and Roach. I also think Roach's health is deteriorating pretty fast and his critical thinking skills are no longer the same. It's always Manny (Pacquiao) who's finally trying to solve the puzzle inside the ring."

"Roach even confessed after the fight that he had no idea on how to intercept Marquez's fighting style. And forget about the handspeed and lateral movements that Manny (Pacquiao) has. What's bad is that Roach has really not developed something new to defeat Marquez. He's just lucky Manny (Pacquiao) is naturally gifted of power and speed and an extremely hardworking fighter."

Nonetheless, he says: "Pacquiao has the speed, power and natural intelligence but these are not enough . Roach being a trainer has to tap these raw materials and make something better out of them, that's needed to overwhelm Marquez's effective counter-punching ability. Roach has not really developed technically sound target plans A, B and C over the years to defeat Marquez. Manny (Pacquiao) has become so predictable with good counter-punchers."

"Now, who is really to blame?"

Can we really blame Pacquiao of his failure to give a clear break on his last fight with Marquez despite his earnestness in trying his best in that ring of madness?

"Roach spending seven years at 'Marquez's science school of boxing' and still not able to solve the puzzle?"

Pacquiao first fought Marquez in 2004. The board of judges scored the same bout as draw. Then another encounter between the same fighters in 2008, which ended with a controvertial split decision in favor of Pacquiao. And then followed their trilogy last November 12 from which Pacquiao won a controvertial majority decision.

If Pacquiao's era were written on the Aztecs' diary in consonance with the Mayan calendar, then its demise may have been so prematurely imminent even before the end of 2012. The Mayans of ancient days predicted the end of the world in 2012. And, for Pacquiao, he has just entered the beginning of the period of his final crisis.

And, "this, essentially in part, is all about whether Pacquiao needs a new trainer for his last few fights in the ring." He decries.

"But, we must give him (Roach) the honor for all his hardwork and dedication to Manny's (Pacquiao) boxing career."

Stay tuned for more!

[MCD]

@J, I agree 100% with your response to MCD's last comment.

Honestly, both are guilty of cherrypicking. I would have loved to have seen Mayweather fought Vernon Forrest, Cotto, and Margarito.

Pac & Roach on the other hand wait til they have all the advantages. They fight boxers who are coming off KO loses, catch weights, etc. etc. Theres numerous videos were Roach gives excuses why he won't, then why he will fight a fighter. Shane Mosley at one time was too good for Manny. Then when Mosley looks bad against Mora & Mayweather, its perfect timing for Pac to fight Shane.
At one time, Marg was to big and strong but after the war he had with Cotto, the KO loss he suffered from Mosley, also being suspened from boxing for a year. Roach knew this was the perfect timing. Forgot to mention, Marg had to fight Pac at a catch weight. With De La Hoya, Roach knew he couldn't pull the trigger anymore. Also, De La Hoya had to make 147lbs, a weight he hadn't fought at in years.

Yeah but how many of Manny's "cherrypicked" fights were hyped up as the next obvious matchup? I personally can't remember, but I do know that the list of fighters Pacquiao's gone up against far outclass Mayweather's list of victims. Pacquiao has fought arguably the best mexican fighters in their prime MULTIPLE times: Morales, Barrera, and of course JMM.

They both had pointless victories over De La Hoya past his prime, difference being Mayweather won the WBC title in '07, and pacquiao's win in '08 was non-title. The problem is Mayweather has grown an ignorant fanboy following because of his record. His fighting style is not favored by many people and he's as opposed to Manny who according to you, waits until his opponents have been KO'd or fights at catch-weight, Floyd flat out ducks them completely.

And before Pacquiao v JMM 3, everyone thought JMM was washed up, especially before his fight with Floyd. In my opinion, Mosley is the only recent opponent that had a chance at Floyd, but he couldn't deal with the counter and didn't use any of his speed.