My response to shadoworder:
dumb devil, despite the fact that Little Richard began playing up tempo r&b when he signed to Specialty (actually he was performing this way [up tempo and fast paced] live, in clubs, before he got with Specialty Records), and despite the fact that Elvis was recording a year before Little Richard reached Specialty, with his new up tempo style, DOESN’T MEAN THAT LITTLE RICHARD GOT HIS STYLE, NOR ANY OTHER SUBSEQUENT BLACK PERFORMER-FROM ELVIS!!!
Whereas he said:
***and when or where did i say he did??dont put words in my mouth,
Look ignorant bastard, no matter how you try and spin your shit, it will still not take away from what you inferred, in regards to the sound sthat Little Richard developed later at Specialty records, as opposed to what Elvis Presley had produced while at Sun records. When I stated that Little Richard first recorded his music prior to Elvis Presley, ergo, he was in the Rock game prior to Elvis, you stated, “little richard did record some singles for rca in 1951,after he won a talent contest,but the songs were slow bluesy numbers that flopped,and that had nothing in common with the sound that we associate with little richard,a sound(and look) that he developed when he joined the speciality record label in 1955.” What sound were you referring to DUMBASS???? From the context of what you were saying, Little Richard didn’t truly come out with music, that sounded even remotely like that of what is considered Rock and Roll, due to the fact that his music/recordings at the time, were primarily “slow bluesy numbers”, and that he really began to record rock records when he joined the Specialty Label, which recorded and produced his uptempo sound!!!
Furthermore, you buttressed this position with the notion that just because Elvis recorded prior to Little Richard, and supposedly created the Rock and Roll Sound while at Sun Records first, that it somehow bestows upon Elvis not only the title of “king” of Rock and Roll, but THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS ARTFORM!!! Why? Because again, according to you, LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS PRIOR TO ELVIS’S ADVENT AT SUN, WEREN’T REALLY ROCK RECORDS BUT “slow bluesy numbers”, WHICH IS BS!!!! I will admit, the great majority of them were, HOWEVER, they were no more “slower” than the cuts Elvis produced at Sun records, initially, and not all of his (Little Richard) cuts were slow paced, and that there were a few fast up tempo songs, FOOL!
That’s why I stated that Little Richard, nor any other black performer, got their style of music, and performance, from Elvis Presley! WHY? Because the style that Little Richard developed at Specialty records, WAS DEVELOPED PRIOR TO HIM, BY OTHER BLACK MUSICIANS, WAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY HAD HIT THE SCENE, AND THAT LITTLE RICHARD WAS FOLLOWING IN THE SAME TRADITION OF THOSE BLACK MUSICIANS, WHEREAS ELVIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE ORIGINATION OF ANY OF IT!!!!
But you know this already devil, so stop feigning ignorance, with your BS questions! Acting as if you’ve discovered a chink in my arguments! Bitch, you haven’t discovered a damn thing, and with that said-NEXT!!!!!
-and little richard was NOT playing in an uptempo style when he did those first recordings,even his own biography page in the r&r hall of fame says this
*Contrary to what you would like to think devil, I HAVE HEARD OF LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS, PRIOR TO SPECIALTY, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE SONG “Little Richard’s Boogie,” a fast paced, up tempo r&b/rock song, that was recorded prior to Elvis Presley’s advent into the music industry. A song that was eventually his signature style, and beyond, when he finally landed at Specialty records.
Furthermore, seeing as how you’re going to that website of yours (and this fool claims that I’m a copy and paste king, which shows how much of a hypocrite he is, because I point out information he’s posted up, whereby he extracted whole texts from different websites; but I’ll get to that later), concerning Little Richard, I’d be remised if I didn’t mention the fact that on your beloved website, where you’re using it as ammo against my position, Little Richard, in his own words stated that Rock and Roll is essentially a mixture of “boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed.” As a matter of fact, his whole quote was concerning rock and roll is, and was (especially the 1950’s variety): “"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll." WHERE DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT COUNTRY AND WESTERN, DEVIL??? NO WHERE!!!! Why? BECAUSE COUNTRY AND WESTERN HADN’T A THING TO DO WITH THE CREATION OF ROCK AND ROLL!!!!! That fusion of country of western eventually occurred when white folks jumped on board, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOUR PEOPLE, OR ELVIS, CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, AND IT DAMN SURE DOESN’T MEAN THAT ROCK AND ROLL BEGAN WITH WHITE FOLKS, OR ELVIS IN PARTICULAR!!!!!!!!
As I said before, so say I now again, white folks were grafted into a musical stream that already existed prior to their advent into the music, bringing their own cultural ethos and flavor, and mixed it with black music, a music (black music) that was coined by Alan Freed as ROCK AND ROLL!!! A word that was inspired from a BLACK song, entitled, “My Baby Rocks me with a Steady Roll!!”
But as far as that term, I’ll deal with that further on down:
-his first recordings which FLOPPED and no one cared for or heard,were slow bluesy numbers that had nothing to do with the sound he would become famous for,a sound that wouldnt come into being till 1955,
*Read my above responses, seeing as how this dumb devil is beginning to go in circles, because that’s the only level of knowledge he can attain, and contain….
-(and little richards boogie was recorded in 1955,not 1953you twat.) over a year after elvis came out full blown with his sound already down,his revolutionary fusion of country and r&b that would be known as rock and roll:)
*Do you see how this serpent, forktongued devil operates, as well as his style of arguing. Now, with many weakminded folks reading his words, many will feel that this sucker-paul, baphomet muthafucka is right in this statement, seeing as how he say’s it with such verve and confidence, but all one would have to do, is do a little research, and peel away the layers on this devil, and what you’d see exposed is a phony, lying bastard, attempting to invoke JEDI MIND FUCKS!
Truth of the matter, despite what this eggo head fart, inverted, belowstairs devil says, THE RECORD STANDS ON THE VERY REAL FACT THAT ELVIS PRESLEY RECORDED “LITTLE RICHARD BOOGIE” IN 1953, AND NOT 1955!!! As a matter of fact, he recorded that song while on the Peacock Label (1953-1954), AND NOT AT SPECIALTY RECORDS, DUMB LYING SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!
Don’t be fooled by this arrogant, smug, cavalier, hammerheaded asshead, and his BS!!! This muthafucka is full of lies, whereby all he can do, when he’s presented with the truth, is spin, and LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE!!!!! Not only that, this muthafucka, when you read further on down the page, will go over hell and high water, and make light of my information, just because much of it comes off of various websites (as if he’s any different), and will claim that I haven’t truly listened to any of the recordings that I’ve put up, but just copied and pasted my whole entire pieces of information (this is something, again, I will deal with, further on down this thread, in this post), because he can’t adequately deal with the truth, so what he does it try to enter into folk’s psyches, by suggesting that just because I may have received much of my information from off of some websites, that it somehow suggests that my information is false, or that I’m a sham individual who doesn’t know what the fuck I’m talking about!
But you know, I’m getting a little ahead of myself here, let me continue on with his claiming that Little Richard’s song “Little Richard’s Boogie”, came out in 1955, WHEN IT DIDN’T:
As I said before, study this crafty devil, and see that this muthafucka is a grand sophist, who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and don’t be fooled by his confident airs!!! Little Richard’s song “Little Richard’s Boogie,” came out before his signing with Specialty records in 1955!!!!!!
As a matter of fact, here’s a website to back up my truthful claim (and yeah muthafucka, I’m resorting to a website, just like your dumb, devil ass does, in order to buttress your points; what it is, is that you’re just mad because I utilize the system with truth on my side, and the facts pointing in my direction, but as I said before, I’ll deal with this topic, further on down this thread):
Besides, if this serpent muthafucka can utilize a website, SO CAN I!!!!
Also check this site out:
In 1953, when Elvis began recording at Sun Records, under the tutelage of Sam Philips (according to him-Sam Phillips-not legend, he was looking for a white man, with that black “feel” and “sound”), the songs he (Elvis) recorded weren’t all up-tempo songs!!! Songs like "My Happiness" (which was recorded first by a black group calling themselves the Inkspots, to which Elvis sung the song almost exactly the way the black lead performer did), “That’s When Your Heartaches Begin,” “Careless Love,” “Casual Love Affair,” and “I’ll Never Stand in Your Way”, weren’t the up tempo songs fused with blues/r&b/country that made Elvis Presley famous! OH HELL NO!!!These songs, just like Little Richard’s earlier recordings before he got with Specialty records (1951-1954), which predated Elvis Presley’s ascension into the recording industry, were very slow paced songs, which were either originally sung, or written-AGAIN-by black male performers and writers!!!
Whereas he said:
***but wait a minute,you just said his music was uptempo and
What the fuck are you talking about?
-"Hell! At least some of Little Richard’s recordings, prior to getting with Specialty-songs like “Little Richard’s Boogie (1953)-had that up tempo fast paced beat, that was common for typical rock songs of the 50’s,"
*And? Where’s the confusion, or controvery, DUMBASS DEVIL???? Could you please explain???
-you cant even stay on top of your own BS,LOL.
*First of all, the only one’s spewing BS, it’s you, imbecilic bastard, and furthermore, I really do believe that you’ve gone off of the deep end, because you’re now claiming that you’ve tagged me, on something that you yourself can’t fully articulate!!!
What? My information has always been consistent, which was, the style that you’re wanting to claim for Elvis Presley (up tempo and fast paced), wasn’t even something that Elvis Presley himself created in the studio, which catapulted his recordings into being considered the first rock records! Rather I’m highlighting how Elvis Presley, just like Little Richard, came out with slow paced songs (by the way, many of those songs that Elvis performed [not all], were written and sung first, by black men, whereby he copied and mimicked their style; an issue that I’ll be dealing with further on down this thread) originally, and that the sound that you consider rock and roll, was put out waaaaaaay before Elvis even looked at Sun records, and that when Little Richard went to Specialty records, his up tempo, fast paced, way of performing, wasn’t something that was inspired by Elvis Presley, BUT BY OTHER BLACK MUSICIANS THAT PRECEDED HIM FOOL!!!!!
So what the fuck are you talking about?????
-the big difference is that little richards first few singles were slow and cliched blues,that flopped.
*So what if they “flopped?” I really don’t give a fuck if they did! There were other black musicians before him, and during his time, and especially before Elvis Presley, that made songs that weren’t flops, BUT HITS!!! And again, these were rock records!!!
-elvis may have recorded those slow songs,but his FIRST release was" thats all right/blue moon of kentucky "which had the new rock and roll sound down.
*It may have had a “new rock and roll sound down” and “the new…sound”, in regards to him bringing his own cultural flavor into the mix, insofar as country music and whatnot, BUT HE DIDN’T BRING IN THE ROCK AND ROLL SOUND, BECAUSE THAT SOUND EXISTED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE!!!
Remember and know this (especially those that are reading these words) Alan Freed, the white dj who first coined the phrase “Rock and Roll”, as I said before, coined this phrase during a time when he was primarily, and on many of occasions solely, playing BLACK MUSIC, THAT WAS LABELED AS R&B AT THE TIME!!!!! Simply put, the music he was playing (black r&b music) was being called by him (Alan Freed) ROCK AND ROLL!!! And guess what year he coined the black music he was playing, as Rock and Roll? 1951!!!!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE BILL HALEY AND THE COMETS (supposed father of Rock and Roll), and definitely way before Elvis Presley, again, even walked into Sun records!!!!!
So bitch, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, IN THAT REGARDS!!! How so? BECAUSE HOW IN THE FUCK CAN ELVIS PRESLEY, LOGICALLY, COME OUT WITH THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD, WHEN BLACK MUSIC WAS ALREADY BEING CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY EVER DECIDED TO RECORD?????? Don’t you folks see the historical, eurocentric, slanted BS, this devil is trying to prop up, by claiming that Elvis Presley created Rock and Roll, whereas much of Elvis Presley’s music, especially his hits, (many of which were written by a black man named Otis Blackwell), and style of performing on stage, WAS TAKEN FROM BLACK FOLKS!!!!
It’s like eurocentric devils claiming that Christopher Columbus discovered America, when this landmass was already inhabited!! What arrogance, to think that something hasn’t been created or discovered, until white muthafuckas give it their imprimatur!!! And this is exactly what you’re doing devil, with the origins of rock and roll, and subsequently claiming that Elvis Presley was the first rock and roller, and “king”!!
What it is, is that ELVIS PRESLEY IS WHITE FOLKS “king”, AND THE FIRST WHITE MAN TO LEAD YOUR PEOPLE ACROSS THE DRY DESERT OF YOUR OWN STALE MUSIC AT THE TIME, INTO A LAND OF MUSIC, WITH HEART AND SOUL!!!! That is what Elvis’s main contribution was fool!!! Just because you folks had Elvis, DOESN’T MEAN THAT BLACK FOLKS DIDN’T HAVE NUMEROUS FOLKS OF THEIR OWN RACE, PLAYING THIS MUSIC!!
Whereas with Elvis, the songs he was originally recording in 1954 (a couple of years after Little Richard first hit the scene), as I stated before, weren’t the songs that we associate with him later on during the 1950’s, which catapulted him to being referred to falsely as the “king” of rock n’ roll!! And not only that fool, most of the songs that he was recording, WERE WRITTEN AND PERFORMED PREVIOUSLY BY BLACK MEN!!
Whereas he said:
***again either you are too stupid or too racist to realize,that just because you cover a song,doesnt mean that you do it in the same exact manner that the original was in.elvis version of "thats allright"was different from the original(and yeah ive haerd it,have you??)
Naw fool, you can accuse me of being racist aaaaaaaaallllll you want to, but it still doesn’t take away the fact that you are indeed, a racist devil your damn self, who’s trying to disguise his horns, but isn’t doing a good job of it!! You’re the type of devil who will bring up racist discussions and will make racist statements, and as soon as someone attacks your racism, you will automatically attempt to jedi-mind fuck them into thinking that it is truly them that are racist, for thinking that your sleight of hand racism, isn’t racism!!! Yeah fool, I’ve come across your hypocritical kind before devil, and just because you’re not using racial epitaphs, doesn’t mean that you’re not a white supremacist, eurocentric racist!!!! Besides fool, YOU KNOW THAT YOU’RE A RACIST YOUR DAMN SELF, SO WHY FAKE THE FUNK BITCH???
Now, with that said, I do realize that cover versions of songs will not sound 100% like the original versions, however, if you reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllly have listened to Arthur Crudup’s version of “That’s Alright Mama,” (as well as “My Happiness”, or those songs performed by the Mills Brothers, and especially Otis Blackwell) YOU’LL WILL NOTICE THE DISTINCT SIMILARITIES: especially if you were to listen to Otis Blackwell’s demos, as well as other demos!
-so was his version of "hound dog"which differed ENORMOUSLY from big mama thorntons version.
*Now that this is one point I agree on.
But back to the discussion:
fool, the fact that his song “That’s Alright Mama”, which is a song originally written and performed by a black man named Arthur Crudup, was successful, DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU CAN EXTRACT IT FROM ITS’ BLACK ROOTS!! Have you ever heard the original tune FOOL!!!!! I bet you never did, in your rush to exterminate black folks status as the originators of rock music!!! Arthur Crudup’s version basically has the same tempo as Elvis Presley’s version, and Arthur’s version was recorded IN THE 1940’S!!!
Whereas he said:
***sorry as i said,i have heard the original,and it doesnt sound the same,the tempo is similar,but the vocals,guitar,and backing is different,as is the production.
Just because the production is different, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE VOCALS AND TEMPO (which you admitted to, in regards to tempo) were not the same!! And okay, let’s say that the vocals were slightly different, in the sense that they have two distinct voices, THE PRODUCTION ON ELVIS PRESLEY’S RECORDING OF THE SAME SONG, DOESN’T MAKE IT THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD EVER, FOOL!!!!! Pat Boone, when he sung “Tutti Frutti”, a song originally performed and sung by Little Richard, DOES THAT MEAN THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT PAT BOONE WAS SINGING, WAS OUTSIDE OF THE PALE OF WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL? Hell no!!!!
The same genre of music that Pat Boone performed during the 50’s (many of which were cover versions of songs performed and written by black singers), at the time, was considered Rock music, nothing original, only that it contained a different production, and a different way of singing the song; which was new and revolutionary in one sense, but not wholly original, to where you would place a new musical artform at his feet: THE SAME WITH ELVIS!!!
And also as I said before, Elvis Presley, as well other white musicians like Jerry Lee Lewis for instance, would perform songs that were written by black musicians, especially Otis Blackwell, who had the jerky and bouncy, vocally constricting type of singing style, which is evident, if you were to have listened to any of the original demos: demos that doesn’t sound anything remotely to country music; demos that Elvis the pelvis, and Jerry Lee, COPIED WHOLESALE!!!
In songs like “All Shook Up,” “Heartbreak Hotel,” and “Jailhouse Rock,” the demos, just like the Elvis recordings, contained none of that country and western influence you’re referring to!! Neither does “Don’t Be Cruel,” and “Return to Sender,” nor does the vocals!!! And mind you, these were the primary bulk of songs that made Elvis famous during the 50’s, and catapulted him to record chart breaking success throughout that decade! If I’m not mistaken, all of those songs were number 1 hits, and they were all written and performed first, by a black man, named Otis Blackwell, whose vocal stylings, Elvis Presley later adopted fully!
Oh and lastly fool, just in case I didn’t stress it well enough-I DID HEAR, AND DO POSSESS, THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF ARTHUR CRUDUP’S SONG, ON VINYL!! I picked it up from an antique record store in El Cerrito, Ca, called “Down Home Music.” Look it up, it’s there!
-ONCE again,let me say(because i said it before,but your kinda slow it seems)
*The only one that’s slow between you and I devil, is you!! You’re not only slow though, YOU ARE ALSO A DAMN LIAR, AND A SOPHIST!!!
-im not denying the black influence,
That may be true, HOWEVER, when you say that black folks only influenced this music, as opposed to creating this music, but rather give that distinction to Elvis Presley, the supposed “king” of rock and roll-THAT’S WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!! Why? Because as I stated before, within the evidence that I had posted up previously, and even within this thread, that the music that was labeled Rock and Roll (r&b music of the late 40’s and early 50’s), by the dj Alan Freed, existed waaaaaaaaaay before Elvis Presley even came on the scene, so how can one honestly, with a straight face, refer to Elvis as recording the first rock and roll record, as well being the first to play rock and roll, when there are other musicians (namely black musicians) who existed before Elvis, and who was playing a music that was, and is called Rock and Roll???
So in the end, like a latently racist, forktongued snake and grimy lizard, you may not be “denying the black influence” on rock music-only because it really can’t be denied, based on all available evidence-BUT YOU ARE MISPLACING THEIR INFLUENCE AND THEIR LEGACY, BY PROPPING UP YOUR WHITE, SUPPOSED “king” OF ROCK AND ROLL, ELVIS PRESLEY: when in reality, he wasn’t the “king” of anything, nor the creator of this art form!
-but you are definitely denying and belittling the white influence,
*No devil, I’m not “denying and belittling the white influence,” on Rock music; rather I, unlike you, am placing white folks in their proper place, in regards to their contributions to rock and roll, instead of as the creators and originators of this form! You see, when I deny your man Elvis, the bogus title of being the “king” of rock music, as well as the first person to record a “rock” record, that’s when your eurocentric, egotistical, privileged, latently racist mind, goes into overdrive, and accuse me of “denying and belittling the white influence,” just because I refuse to go along with your revisionist BS!!!
Devil, you have your nerves! LOL!!
-all your doing is contradicting yourself over and over,
*Look here devil, just because you say I’m “contradicting” myself “over and over,” doesn’t make it so!! Truth be told, amidst all your sophist BS rantings, you have yet to extract where I’ve contradicted myself anywhere: YOU JUST ACCUSE ME OF DOING SO, either because your dimwitted, and a slowpoke bitch, or your trying to invoke jedi-mindfucks off onto others, by trying to convince them, as well as myself, of something that is there, or isn’t there
Bitch you ain’t slick, you’re just a bona-fide trick that full of shit!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
-your saying its a black music,
*You damn straight, one trick pony bastard, only because IT IS, and the fact that it was labeled as Rock and Roll, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY, BILL HALEY, CARL PERKINS, JERRY LEE LEWIS, AND OTHERS OF YOUR KIND, HIT THE SCENE!!!!!
When this music was called Rock and Roll, it was called so during a point and time, WHEN ALL THE PERFORMERS WERE BLACK, AND THE MUSIC THEY WERE PLAYING WAS R&B, with a little boogie-woogie to boot! Because remember, from the website you posted up of Little Richard (you know the one you attempted to use against me) Brother Richard says: ““"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll."
And I have to admit, I agree with Little Richard any day, as opposed to a revisionist eurocentric, LIAR like you!! LOL!!!
-im saying its a white music made by putting together black and white forms,you say im wrong,
*Hell yeah you’re wrong, because no matter how much you try and grasp for straws, in trying to convince me, of how rock music originated-at the hands of white folks, primarily a single white man-the historical record say’s otherwise, FOOL!!!! And seeing as how the historical record say’s otherwise, it would be a great waste of time, trying to convince me of your deluded and revisionist interpretations of history!!!!
So again, FUCK YEAH I SAY YOU’RE WRONG!! Shit! You’d thought I’d say any differently!
-but then you say" Rock music, by many white folks at the time, despite the country/hillbilly fusion of some of its elements..."
*Pull up the whole quote, and the surrounding portions, so that I may receive the broader context, in which you’re aiming for…
-i could sit here and point out how certain elements of blues
music comes diectly from celtic /scottish folk music,and i could belittle the whole history of blues by saying ,like you are,"so what,its has white musical roots,its composed on western instruments like the guitar,its based on modified european scales,etc,etc",i wont do that,because it would be false.
*I know it would be devil, AND?
-blacks were influenced by whites ,
*True enough, I never denied this, but I did say however, based on recordings that were companions to books put out by Robert Palmer and Alan Lomax, that a certain strain of the blues (i.e. Delta), do have direct linkage to many aspects of west African music! Especially those west Africans who played kora (string like instrument, somewhat similar to the guitar)!
-but made their own sound out of it.
*Again, this is true, based on the elements that they (black folks) put up on the music, AND?
-if you can acknowledge that,but refuse to do the same with rock and roll,its because you are straight up racist.
*Naw bitch, it’s you who are the one who’s a straight up racist muthafucka, who’s hiding behind the covering of truth and honesty, when again, all you are is jedi-mindfuck, sophist, belowstairs, racist, hammerheaded, devil, who has never denied he’s racist, but yet will still try and convince others, as well as himself, that he isn’t racist!
With that said, let’s continue:
and oh by the way...were do you suppose the roots of rhythm and blues lie at??yep it comes from the blues,now where did the blues partially come from again???those "black roots"that you are talking about in rock and roll,are shot thru with a healthy dose of vanilla,my man,LOL.
*Yeah fool, but one thing you are supremely overlooking-whether or not blues/r&b, have been polluted by “a healthy dose of vanilla”, the vanilla by itself would have never, couldn’t have ever, produced the music that black folks eventually created, WITHOUT THE BLACK RHYTHM AND SOUL!!!! Why do you think I argued with one on this site, concerning what black folks contributed culturally in this country, seeing as how much of their material culture (not all) was stripped away from them, to where when white folks gave them lemons, black folks made lemonade, and created something new and distinct!
The reason why it’s not the same, AGAIN, with Elvis Presley, and his white boy confederacy (Bill Haley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, et al), in the sense that their music (black music, mixed with white folks music), was, and is the music that originated rock and roll, is because of the fact that, BEFORE THESE FOLKS EVEN RECORDED AND CAME ON THE SCENE, THE MUSIC THAT WAS REFERRED TO AS “ROCK AND ROLL”, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN BLACK MUSICIANS WERE PRIMARILY, AND SOLELY, PLAYING THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!! That’s the difference!!
With the fear of sounding redundant:
The black r&b music that Alan Freed played on the radio, inspired him to call it (the music) Rock and Roll, a term that was taken from black slang, which referred to the sex act! And mind you, this music was first called Rock music, in 1951, prior to the advent of Elvis Presley, Bill Haley, and others of their kind, again, HIT THE SCENE-SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????
Again, there’s the difference, BITCH! LOL!!!!
As a matter of fact, waaaaaaaaaaay before Elvis, and the supposed “Father of Rock n’ Roll”, Bill Haley (a man who preceded Elvis, in recording what is known as the “first” official rock song in 1954: Rock Around the Clock), you had black performers before the two of them (yes, even going back to the 30’s) performing songs that were classified either as race records, or blues records, that displayed the exact same up tempo beats, that was commonly associated with Rock music during the 1950’s. Musicians like Big Joe Turner in collaboration with Pete Johnson, who in 1938 put out a song called “Roll ‘Em Pete,” and later recorded “The Night Time is the Right Time,” and “Shake Rattle and Roll,” before Bill Haley put his hands on it!!!!
Additionally, I almost forgot about the song “Rock Me”, by the Lucky Millinder Orchestra, that was recorded during the 1930’s; Wynonie Harris’ version of “Good Rockin Tonight,” in 1949; the Washboard Rhythm Kings, and their song “Tiger Rag”, in 1931; "Flying Home" by jazz vibraphonist Lionel Hampton and his orchestra in 1939. The tenor sax solo by Illinois Jacquet, recreated and refined live by Arnett Cobb, is considered an early model for rock and roll solos ever since, emotional, honking, long, not just an instrumental break but the keystone of the song.
Whereas he can only say:
***great cut and paste job as usual,and of course you expect anyone to believe you have actually heard all these songs you just mentioned??dont make me laugh
Again, this slick slithering serpent, who has no where else to go, nor can he deny the information that I’ve just posted, and come back with his own adequate rebuttal, so all he can do is smear the way I obtained the information, as opposed to the truthfulness of the information. And regardless of whether I copied and pasted this information, AM I LYING!!! Or better yet, is the information FALSE MUTHAFUCKA!!!! Yeah devil, that’s what I thought!!
And you wonder why I call you a BEEEEEEEYATCH!!!! Just look at you fool, and the cowardly desperate, tactics you have to utilize, in order to attack my information!!!
Robert Johnson’s “Milk Cow Blues (recorded by Elvis Presley, with the same tempo),” “If I Had Possession Over Judgment Day,” “I Believe I’ll Dust My Broom,” and “Sweet Home Chicago,” just to name a few, were, and are classified as blues songs (even though it had a strong r&b feel to it), yet they were all up tempo, frenetically fast paced songs!!!! (White groups like the Rolling Stones, et al, recorded many of these songs as well.) And guess what? THEY WERE ALL RECORDED IN THE 1930’S!!! Furthermore, if you were to listen to all of these songs, you will see where much of the early rock and roll of the 50’s, and remnants thereof, has its’ roots, in their syncopated bluesy rhythms and pulsating beats!! These songs were the foundation of rock n’ roll music, and if folks don’t want to claim these songs as being strictly blues, then so be it, but one thing folks can’t deny-THE FOUNDATION WAS STILL ROOTED AND BIRTHED IN BLACK MUSIC!!!
Whereas he can only say:
***once again,as always,another long batch of cut and paste,the lazy mans way of debate,lol. i hope no one reading your post is dumb enough to believe you actually wrote all that yourself,
Again, you claim not to be a racist, yet you accuse me of not utilizing my own intellect, in regards to the above post, but that I have to borrow, copy, and paste shit off of various websites!!! Fool! The above post, ARE MY OWN WORDS, AND I DARE YOU TO PROVE OTHERWISE!!!!
What? Just because my information was on point, some white man had to come up with it!!!
Bitch, don’t get me started on your dumbass, because I can retrieve some information over on that other post of yours, that was lifted directly from websites!!!! In the end, this is a diversionary tactic that you’re using, in order to take away from the real issue-WHICH IS THE TRUTHFULNESS OF THE INFORMATION THAT I’M PUTTING UP!
-or you have actually listened to a single one of those artists you have mentioned.your not fooling me for one microsecond with that crap.
*Yeah right muthafucka, and much to your dislike and seething hatred, I DO HAVE ROBERT JOHNSON’S CD’S!!! I purchased both of his Cd’s entitled “Robert Johnson: King of the Delta Blues,” both volumes I and II!! (Presently, there’s an anthology of Robert Johnson out, that contains all of his songs together, including retakes; this anthology won a grammy award) Not only that, Wynonie Harris, Lucky Millinder, Charlie Christian, Reverend Gary Thomas (ragtime blues musician), the Washboard Rhythm Kings, Big Joe Turner, Lionel Hampton, and others, I’ve collected from antique record stores like the one in El Cerrito, Ca, (Down Home music), Tower Records, and other outlets, FOOL!!!!
So bitch, again, your racist devil, scum-slug crawling ass don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about!!! Up there stereotyping me, and just presuming that he knows my record collection, and where my sources are springing from, AS IF HE DOESN’T SURF THE NET FOR INFORMATION! This fool thought that I only listened to hip-hop/rap music, and was caught up in the bling-bling: WELL YOU THOUGHT WRONG BITCH!!!
Just like a devil, can’t challenge you on the information, so he attacks the source and credibility of the information, only because he can’t DENY THE INFORMATION!!! If anything, no one ought not be fooled by you devil, and BS and deceptive ways!!!
But let’s continue!!
-anyways,please tell me where i said in my post that black music wasnt an influence on rock and roll??you are reacting like i said rock and roll was born fully formed out of a white mans mind, with no links to the past
*Likewise, please tell me where I did indeed accused you of that!! Now if I did, I was wrong for doing so, and was probably just caught up in the moment, but if I didn’t say that, then again, YOUR DEVIL ASS IS PRODUCING MORE LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES!!!!!! As I said before on the post prior to this one, which was akin to: “Of course you have to admit black folks influence upon the birth of rock music, BECAUSE IT’S UNDENIABLE, AND CAN’T BE AVOIDED, FOOL!!” HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
-i have said before,and ill say it again,rock androll ,in the 50s,when it began,was a fusion of black R&B(which includes all those artists you mentioned,but have actually never heard) and white country music
*Naw devil bitch, YOU ONLY WISH I NEVER HEARD THAT MUSIC BEFORE, IN ORDER TO SEQUESTER ME INTO A BOX OF BS ARTISTS LIKE YOURSELF!!! Trust me, you do indeed have black folks out there who listen to black music of the past, instead of being stuck on contemporary styles solely!!! HELL!! I use to play the acoustic guitar, sometimes with a slide accompaniment, while listening to cats like Robert Johnson, Son House, Charlie Patton (very hard to understand, I might add), Blind Lemon Jefferson, Reverend Gary Davis, while in college, FOOL!!! So bitch, you’re not telling me nothing about the music of my people, and what I’ve heard!
And as far as rock music, that originated in the 50’s, being a fusion of black music (r&b) and country music, well-THAT’S BS!!!!!! As I’ve said before, so say I now again, ROCK MUSIC, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN IT WAS BEING PERFORMED SOLELY BY BLACK MUSICIANS, WAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE THE FUSION OF COUNTRY MUSIC, AND WHITE FOLKS, HIT THE SCENE-AND THAT’S THE UNADULTERATED, UNCOMPROMISED TRUTH, NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT!!
Likewise, no matter what you say, or want to proclaim, ELVIS THE PELVIS PRESLEY, DIDN’T CREATE, INVENT ROCK N’ ROLL, NEITHER DID HE PUT OUT THE FIRST ROCK RECORD, FOOL!! LOL!!
-and listen to how you contradict yourself,
*Okay, I’m listening, I’m listening…
-you say rock and roll existed in the 40s,but it was called r&b or race music it wasnt called rock and roll
*No devil, what I said in summary was: “These songs (r&b/race music) were the foundation of rock n’ roll music,” and that the same music, especially the up tempo r&b kind of the late 40’s and early 50’s, was the music that was eventually called “ROCK AND ROLL”, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ANYONE HAS EVER HEARD OF ELVIS (your supposed “king” and originator of this art form)!!!! Oh yeah, and the music that was eventually called Rock and Roll WAS BLACK MUSIC, FROM BLACK MUSICIANS, without any country and western fusion-IT WAS STRICTLY R&B!!!!
-the term wasnt used to describe a specific musical genre till elvis came along,
*When do you consider Elvis coming along, IN 1954!!!! Look here you dumb bitch (and I hope folks are seeing this accurately for what it is) AS I SAID BEFORE, THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE, AND DROPPING HIS FIRST RECORD, PERIOD!!! THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED BY ALAN FREED, TO DESCRIBE THE TYPE OF BLACK R&B MUSIC HE PLAYED ON THE RADIO!!!!! FURTHERMORE, HE COINED THIS PHRASE IN 1951, again, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY WAS EVEN A THOUGHT ON THE MUSICAL LANDSCAPE, YOU DUMB, IGNORANT DEVIL BASTARD!!!!
Man, what the fuck is wrong with you?????? Are you that fuckin’ blinded by your own racist need for Elvis to the “king?”
-you also admit that whites added their own thing to it,so what is the problem??
*Yes I did admit that white folks added their own distinct and cultural flavor onto this music, so in that sense you’re right!!!! There’s no contradiction, or shame in my game!! But look here devil, JUST BECAUSE WHITE FOLKS ADDED THEIR OWN DISTINCT CULTURAL FLAVOR SOMEWHAT, ONTO THIS MUSIC, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Their musical contributions and style, is similar to the many genres of rock music you have out there today, that has nothing to do with r&b, or country and western, but lends more towards jazz and classical music!!!!!
In other words, as I’ve said previously, white musicians, such as Elvis Presley, were grafted into the family of Rock music, as opposed to, AGAIN, creating it: THAT’S ALL I’M SAYING, FUCK YOUR REVISIONIST BS!!!
-rock around the clock wasnt the first rock and roll song,
*I KNOW IT WASN’T !!!! LOL! But then again devil, one can say that, “Rock Around the Clock” was the first “rock and roll song” for WHITE FOLKS!!!!! As I proved already, black musicians were already playing music that was labeled as Rock and Roll, before Bill Haley hit the scene with this recording!
-it was the first rock and roll song to be a hit ,
*Yeah, again for white folks! But let me ask you this, in your opinion, WHAT WAS THE FIRST ROCK SONG, IF THIS SONG WASN’T THE FIRST ONE, RATHER, JUST THE FIRST ONE TO BECOME A HIT?
-it was recorded in 1954,
*Yeah, is that when white folks were fully and nationally grafted into the rock music culture, because, er uh-songs like “Good Rockin’ Tonight,” “Sixty Minute Man,” “Guitar Boogie,” “The Fat Man,” “Standing at the Crossroads (Elmore James version)”, etc.-WAS ALL RELEASED PRIOR TO 1954 (some in the late 40’s)!!! And this music, as well as the music other black performers were playing, IS WHAT WAS CALLED BY ALAN FREED, IN 1951, AS ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
-but it became a nationwide hit in 1955,when it was used in the flick blackboard jungle,and yes,it was also a hit on the country and r&b charts as well,
*This I already know fool!! So what, you’re saying that just because this song was made in 1954, and the fact that it became a hit in 1955, and that it became a hit on the country charts, THAT IT SECURES THE NOTION THAT ROCK MUSIC IS BASICALLY R&B AND COUNTRY MUSIC MIXED TOGETHER? Well again, YOU’RE WRONG!!! Because as I said before, with the fear of sounding redundant-BLACK MUSIC, PRIOR TO WHITE FOLKS ENTRY INTO THIS ART FORM, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WAY BEFORE BILL HALEY AND ELVIS PRESLEY’S ASCENSION ON THE ROCK LANDSCAPE!!!
-thanks for reminding me,and proving my point once againLOL.
*The only point you’re proving, is the fact that you’re a boneheaded, duncical nincompoop, who resorts to red-herring arguments, and diversionary tactics, just because he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about!! Whereas I on the other hand, have made my positions clear, despite the inflammatory language, but you, as a rat, can only run in circles, like a dizzy lizzie, because in the end you’re just a silly, little intellectual, lightweight BITCH, WHO HASN’T PROVEN A DAMN THING!!!
-yeah the red hot and blue show would mainly play r&b,and yeah,they played that song on it,so why would it surprise you that they liked it??it has a very strong r&b feel to it,since thats one of the ingredienst that make up rock and roll,but it also got airplay in 1954 on the louisiana hayride,a live country music radio show from shreveport.elvis performed live on that show,and was so popular with the listeners,that he made 52 apperances on it,within the year,
*And what’s the point bitch? Are you then saying that just because this “song (I now assume, you’re referring to Elvis the Pelvis)” was played on r&b stations, as well as country stations, that this somehow magically makes Elvis Presley the “king” of rock and roll, as well as the originator? Is this what you dumbass is saying??
Well, before I jump to conclusions, let me read on further…
-so explain to me genius,
*Well, thank you, thank you!
-if elvis was playing black music,r&b,race music,whatever halfassed name you want to throw out,
-why was he embraced by the country crowd??? why did he spend most of 1955 touring on package tours with other country artists??
*Okay, that’s simple:
As I said before, Elvis Presley not only recorded country songs strictly (which he did), he also recorded r&b songs, as well as songs that-in the words of how you put it-fused both r&b and country music together!!!! I never denied this fool!!!! What I denied is the lie that he was the creator and founder of the musical artform ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!
This has always been my consistent position, yet you accuse me of being a slowpoke????
-elvis music was familiar enough that someone into r&b exclusively could get into him,or someone into country could get into him,but different enough that people who werent into either form could get into him as well.
*Read the above reply…
-most music historians place the birth of rock and roll at elvis door,not little richard,who didnt find his voice till 1955.
*To the contrary, only a hand full of music historians, and if the birth of rock and roll does indeed land at Elvis’s feet, then how about the “first” rock hit song by Bill Haley and the Comets. Remember, Bill Haley, by many music historians with a bias, claim him (Bill Haley) as the “father” of Rock and Roll, WHICH IS REVISIONIST, EUROCENTRIC BS!!! Just like it is eurocentric revisionist BS, to “place the birth of rock and roll at elvis door,” even though black music was labeled as Rock and Roll, even before Elvis Presley recorded, or even had a hit!!
With that said, the “voice” that Little Richard did eventually find in 1955, drew from a stream that originated from black performers, and had nothing at all to do with Elvis Presley!
Again, you’re looking at this from a myopic, eurocentric angle, that only wishes to see the white advent into this musical form, as opposed to what fully preceded it!
-was that his first record "thats alright"was a hit on the r&b,pop,AND country charts,and no,they didnt know what color he was when the record took off, so dont give me the "he was white"crap.it crossed over,because it was something unique and new,and mind you,this was in the jim crow south!
*As far as this song being a hit on the country chart, or any national chart for that matter, is debatable, but what I do know is that is was a local, and regional hit, I doubt if it was national. With that said, when the song “That”s Alright” came out, of course no one knew the race of Elvis Presley, simply because, MOST EVERYONE (both black and white) THOUGHT HE WAS BLACK, UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT OTHERWISE!!!!!!
Remember, Sam Phillips had taken Elvis’s recording “That’s Alright”, over to Dewey Phillips (a white man), a local Memphis DJ, who had the most integrated listening audience in the south, or at least in that region, and he would mostly play, to almost solely play, black music on the regular, to where when he played Elvis Presley’s version of Arthur Crudup’s “That’s Alright Mama,” folks in the area didn’t think of the sound of this song as being new and revolutionary, per se-rather they tagged it as a song, sung by a black performer, within the black musical idiom!
Whereas he can only say:
***no,people thought it was original,and it got played on country radio shows too,as i said previously,so that proves that it was a new form of music,and not the same old thing.
People thought that it was original, only in the sense of its’ production, or those who were ignorant of the original. Furthermore, the fact that they (listening public) thought that he was black, still goes back to the kind of music that Elvis Presley was essentially performing!!
-pat boone didnt cover those little richard songs till 1956/57,long after elvis was established
*So what? The similiarities between the two were that they were, and are white; they covered versions of songs written and performed by black folks; and at the time, they became more famous than the black folks who recorded those songs, which is evidenced in how those songs became hits when they touched them, whereas when black folks first put them out there, they weren’t! And in many ways, that’s because of the predominant, consumer driven white market, wanting to purchase black music, coming under the shade of white skin, than the originals…
The fact that this song became famous throughout Memphis, doesn’t necessarily mean that Elvis created a “new” sound, rather it lends towards the fact that the song, WAS JUST A DAMN GOOD SONG, PERIOD!!! Now when the listening public got a hold of the fact that he was white, particular at the time, THEY WENT BALLISTIC!!! Many white performers that were covering black songs, like Pat Boone, Elvis Presley and Bill Haley, amongst other white performers at the time, became more famous, and were compensated more graciously, than the black performers who originally sung their own songs!!! (Pat Boone was notorious for being a cultural bandit, seeing as how he vanquished Little Richard and Fats Domino’s music collection, and received fame more fame in the process, at the time.) This was just a trend at the time!
Furthermore, Elvis Presley used to visit black clubs, and theatres showcasing black performers, where the black acts, or lead singer, would gyrate their hips, and even become more obscene than Elvis ever became, by grinding the stage!! All these actions were already in vogue, amongst the black entertainment circuit, way before Elvis Presley hits the scene, but because Elvis does it, many in the white community then, as well as now, will view that as an original action on the part of Elvis, even though he was imitating BLACK PERFORMERS!!!
In other words, it’s more sexier, seeing as how it’s coming from the body of a white man, and will even be praised by many, whereas when black performers from the time performed that way, it was either considered standard issue (e.g., that’s just what those “niggers” do), or savagely obscene by the white majority!! The proof is how many considered Elvis Presley’s hip movements, as well as Rock music overall, as “nigger music,” and "nigger behavior!" And this was coming from white folks at the time (1950’s) that should know better, seeing as how they were closer to the ascension of what was going on!
Rock music, by many white folks at the time, despite the country/hillbilly fusion of some of its elements, was still considered, even by white racists, AS BLACK MUSIC!!! What it is, is that nowadays, the white youth, and contemporaries of this generation, have been raised and deluged in rock music (ad infinitum), to where many have lost the connection, either intentionally, or unintentionally, with its’ historical roots, because of their own latently racist agendas!
Whereas he said:
***ive heard a lot of black has beens say that elvis stole his moves from blacks,yet ive never seen footage of any black performer,that would move in the same exact way as elvis,so until someone can show me that,ill file it in my afrocentric BS file, along with your other posts.
I don’t care what file you decide to put that information in devil!!! The fact that you dismiss it, doesn’t take away the validity and truthfulness of the information!! Hell, much of what you say, have already been filed away, in my eurocentric BS file, devil! And believe me, it’s voluminous!!! Again, this is just smokescreen drivel, from a devil who can’t FUCK with the information put before him!
Furthermore, I’ve seen documentaries, and footage, of performers such as T-Bone Walker (he would shake his hips, as well as do splits, while playing his guitar behind his head), as well as black r&b performers, from the late 40’s and 50’s, who would do similiarly! As a matter of fact, I remember once seeing a pbs documentary, where they were doing dances such as the Charleston, where two black couples were dancing, only to drift apart, with some distance between them, and when the partners decided to come back to one another, they were walking with their shoulders slumped over, as if their legs were full of dead weight-I’ve seen Elvis do this on more than one occasion! Black performers of this time period, specifically those of the r&b/blues variety, were always performing on stage, especially the ones with guitar in tow!
Secondly, it was known at the time, that Elvis would visit black clubs and venues, throughout his early life, as well as when he became famous, particularly in his early years, where he would mimick and copy, and later innovate, the dance movements he saw from these individuals.
As a matter of fact, this is a good read:
“Elvis Presley, a young, still-raw hayseed, was making his first trip to the Big Apple to see his new record company, and the Apollo was where he wanted to be. Night after night in New York he sat in the Apollo, transfixed by the pounding rhythms, the dancing and prancing, the sexual spectacle of rhythm-and-blues masters like Bo Diddley. He had heard and emulated black singers all his life, but now he saw how black music affected the world's toughest audience. It was good medicine for him, and he repeated the dose often and to amazing effect. In 1955, Elvis's stage presence was still rudimentary. But watching Bo Diddley charge up the Apollo crowd undoubtedly had a profound effect on him. When he returned to New York a few months later for his first national television appearance, on Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey's "Stage Show," he again spent hours at the Apollo after rehearsals. On the Dorsey show Elvis shocked the entire country with his outrageous hip-shaking performance, and the furor that followed made him an American sensation.”
-you know im saying,
*I know what you ain’t saying, which is anything above what is considered shit! I know that for a fact!
-or rather im debating early 50s rock and roll,
*I know this bitch, so what’s your point?
-are you actually saying that rock and roll today,could still be considered black??
*Not what Rock has evolved into!! In other words, much of rock music today was grafted on, as the years succeeded and gotten further and further away from the raw regional stylings of the 1950’s. You had the British invasion (whose musicians admitted their love and fascination of black music, to where many of them covered versions, and/or performed in similar styles; at least initially), and other styles like heavy metal, death metal, etc., that black folks by and large, don’t cotton towards. Also, the musical styles that I’ve mentioned, one can argue, that it has not one drop of blues, or country and western licks attached to it all! Others will say that this is a debatable premise.
Regardless of whether that is so, or not, one thing that I do know, is the fact that much of black music evolved, and took a different path, than even their original raw, guitar driven, r&b, blues, and boogie-woogie sounds. Much of black music today, if it’s r&b, is ballad driven, and rap oriented, with the playing of real instruments in having any play in the process.
For instance, you may see a balladeer who’s black singing, whether they be male, or female, but many of them, will never pick up the guitar, as black musicians of the past would, with few exceptions, because it’s probably considered arcane imagery.
No, the stream of r&b, that was originally classified as Rock music, died out primarily during the 1960’s, with musicians from Stax record, and others, including James Brown to a bit. What eventually had happened was that black folks r&b stream of rock music, evolved into what was called “Soul” music during the 60’s, with emphasis on singers performing without a guitar in hand, and another music called “Funk”, which some folks labeled as Acid Rock!
Simply put, a divide had occurred to where there was white rock music, and black rock music. Black “rock” music, eventually evolved into again, “funk”, or “soul”, or group music, whereas white rock performers, began to fuse blues from electric blues guitar gods, jazz fusion, classical music, mid eastern music, etc.
Again, black folks didn’t go this route similarly to Hendrix, who was a distortion and feedback master, which is evidenced in “Purple Haze,” “Star Spangled Banner,” “Voodo Child,” etc.: a style of play that influenced up and coming generations of heavy metal guitar performers.
But I guess your racist devil ass is going to claim that I’ve never heard any of those songs either, right?
Fuck you and go to hell bitch!
-LOL.is that what you think???
-rock and roll by the mid 60s,sounded radically different from rock in the 50s,and this is before the whole sgt pepper/summer of love era,its mutated in so many different ways,in so many radical ways ,but your stupid ass is claiming its still a black form??
*Naw devil, the only “stupid ass” here is YOU!! You’re a “stupid ass” because you believe that white folks created rock and roll; you’re a “stupid ass”, because you claim that Elvis Presley created Rock and Roll; you’re a “stupid ass,” because all you could retort back, in the form of rebuttals, was the fact that I allegedly copied and paste wholesale, information from off of other websites, whereas not being able to answer or rebut any of the information posted; you’re the “stupid ass,” to even think I would care; you’re the “stupid ass,” to even pose such a dumb question to me, because in one of my earlier posts, I did admit that Rock music did indeed evolve, but that the origins of Rock music (the 1950’s variety) WAS CREATED BY BLACK FOLKS!! Not only that fool!!! Rock music did indeed evolve during the 60’s and took new twists and turns, but much of it (not all), still had it’s bluesy roots, intertwined with other musical influences, such as jazz (particular fusion) and classical music!!!
Again, my theme, despite what your forktongued devil ass say’s, has always been that ELVIS PRESLEY NOR WHITE FOLKS, CREATED THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT WAS KNOWN AS ROCK AND ROLL, BECAUSE BLACK R&B MUSIC AT THE TIME, THAT WAS BLUES AND BOOGIE WOOGIE DRIVEN, HAD THAT MONIKER (rock and roll) ATTACHED TO IT, WAAAAAAY BEFORE YOUR “king” AND HIS MINIONS, EVER CAME ON THE SCENE!!!!
Remember dumbass hellhound, it’s you, who is coming up with all this revisionism on the origins of this musical art form, not me devil!!
-i cant beleive that,even from you,clarify what you mean
*Read above me bitch, and let me move on! LOL!
I can go further with this one theme, but let me move on, where I may just pick up on the same theme:
-also the b-side of thats all right was the bluegrass song "blue moon of kentucky",elvis recorded that bluegrass song with a strong r&b feel,the opposite of the a-side,which was an r&b song covered with a strong country feel.this is what rock and roll(in the 50s when it started)was.
*So what? I know this already! And by the way, this information in no way, shape or form, compromises my above information, as well as the information in my previous post. But never fear, further on down this paragraph, is this subject, in which I’ll be gladly returning to: but for now, LET’S MOVE ON!
-i should also point out that chuck berrys first hit"maybelline"was a similar r&b/country fusion,which is why that song crossed over to the pop and country charts as well as the r&b charts.in fact "maybelline" was actually an old country song called "ida red"that chuck rewrote.
Whereas I said:
Again fool, I KNOW THIS ALREADY, but it doesn’t mean that ROCK AND ROLL’S ORIGINS WERE ROOTED IN COUNTRY MUSIC, OR ANY TYPE OF BLUE GRASS GENRE!! Furthermore, I am a fair man, and did admit earlier, in a couple of posts prior to this one, that much of the codified form of black American music, was influenced by some aspects European styles (similar to Mexican music not being pure indigenous, but heavily influenced by European music, yet it is still called Mexican music), but was given flavor and soul, from the African-american ethos? I’ve admitted this already, and in the song Maybelline, Chuck Berry added his black cultural ethos within his stage performance, as well as the playing of this song, in order to give it the jolt that it had!
(But now, some will argue and say that’s what Elvis Presley did, in the majority of his recordings with Sun Records, and the point is well taken, however, it still doesn’t take away from the fact that when folks originally heard Elvis Presley, whether they were white or black, many of them unanimously thought that ol’ Elvis WAS A BLACK MAN!!!! And the purpose of me harping on Elvis Presley and his first few years of recording at Sun Records, was due to the fact that this fool “shadoworder,” inferred that Elvis Presley, unlike Little Richard, began to perform up tempo and fast paced, energetic rhythms and beats, before Richard’s advent at Specialty Records, therefore, according to shadoworders logic, seeing as how Elvis was the first to do so, amongst other factors, he can comfortably fit into the label as being not only the “king” of rock and roll, but the implication is the ORIGINATOR OF ROCK AND ROLL, which is BS!!!!
Whereas he said:
***again its a FACT that elvis had released his first couple of singles before either chuck or little richrad(i mean the real shit,i dont count his early blues flops)did,the rock and roll sound ws all there in that first single,and it was their before chuck or bo didley or anyone else,and all these dudes from the 40s that you mention,wynonie harris,joe turner,lousi jordan etc,etc,why arent music historians putting the start of rock with those guys????
I can give a fuck what most music historians say in regards to Elvis being the “king” and the first rock and roll performer, because as I said previously, so sayI again, THE MUSIC THAT BLACK MUSICIANS WERE PERFORMING, RATHER IT BE FATS DOMINO, BIG JOE TURNER, LLOYD PRICE, ETC., DURING THE LATE 40’S AND EARLY 50’S, IS WHAT ALAN FREED LABELED AS ROCK AND ROLL!!!!
Dumb devil, are you that stupid BITCH!!! Then again, I guess you are, BECAUSE YOU ARE A DUMB DEVIL!! LOL!
In addition, as I told you before, Little Richard recorded “Little Richard’s Boogie,” which was a song that can easily be interpreted as a rock song (because it was), prior to Elvis Presley, in 1953, on the Peacock Label, secondly, as far as Chuck Berry’s concerned, he began playing with the Sir John’s Trio in 1952, where he fused blues, r&b, and hillbilly music together: AND THIS WAS BEFORE ELVIS HIT THE SCENE!!! No, he didn’t have a record out at the time, but he did perform rock music prior to him (Elvis) recording in 1955!!
So what, are you saying that just because Chuck Berry didn’t have a record out at the time, and the fact that Elvis did, that this somehow make Elvis the “king” of rock and roll music, as well as the originator?? Man, is this is what you’re really telling me!! It’s like me saying that the “Sugarhill Gang” were the first rappers, and that they created rap music, just because they dropped the first rap record in 1979!!!!
No bitch, you can’t be that stupid can you!! Then again, I can’t forget the fact that you are DUMB DEVIL!!!! LOL!!!
This BS of his, is what compelled me to go back into history and pull up historical black musical luminaries, in order to prove that not all black music during the 30’s, 40’s and early 50’s, that was considered blues, or race records, were the slow bluesy kind that he tried to attach onto Little Richard’s early recordings!)
Whereas he said:
*** i never said that at all,its not the tempo idiot,
No, but you implied it bitch, and if you didn’t mean to do so, THEN COMMUNICATE MORE CLEARLY, YOU MUTE BASTARD!!
-its the vocal phrasing,the guitar playing,the amplified bass drum,the slapping bass fiddle,the instrumentation,the whole feel of the song,including the use of echo on elvis voice,which became a trademark of sun records/early rock and roll, and which was inspired by an old hank williams song.its not the time they are playing in.
*The more and more you write, the more the true “idiot” is being exposed, and the finger’s not pointing at me. You see, your precious “vocal phrasing, the guitar playing, the amplified bass drum, the slapping bass fiddle, the instrumentation,” as well as what you call “the whole feel of the song,” which includes “the use of echo on elvis voice,” WASN’T THE AURAL TRADEMARK THAT LABELED THE MUSIC BLACK R&B MUSICIANS WERE PLAYING, DURING THE LATE 40’S AND 50’S, AS ROCK MUSIC FOOL!!!!!!! Black musicians at Sun, even before Elvis graced its doors, used that echo, amplified basses, and electric guitars, as well as sounds that were associated with what was labeled as Rock music, fool!!
- have you ever listened to country music from the 40s or 50s(pre rock)?
-well thats a stupid question,
*Only the person asking the question…
-seeing as how you havent listened to a single r&b record that you cut and pasted.
*What it is, is that you want to BELIEVE that I never heard any of the music that I posted up, only to secure in your mind, the safety net, of dwelling in the land of make believe, with the intentional notion that I don’t know what I’m talking about, with the hopes of leading others into a way that you truly don’t believe deep down yourself, but rather want to believe.
Just like white racist devils! Always thinking that they know someone, or why someone operates the way they do!
Bad bitch, bad bitch! LOL!!!
Muthafucka, I’m more eclectic than your dumbass will ever be, or can imagine!
-but if you ever do,you may realize that some of that has a rock feel too,the way some r&b does.
*The only reason why that is, is because many country and western musicians, like Hank Williams, and Jimmie Rodgers, to name a few, infused black gospel music, and blues, into their musical style, to where I don’t blame their music for having that bluesy, r&b sound to it!
-and country music was a big influence on chuck berrys playing style,not just with that one song,
*(Yawn) I know this, I’ve admitted as much earlier…
-and it is important,
-because the fact that these songs crossed over on the charts proves that they were on to something revolutionary.none of these old songs were reffereed to as rock and roll either dude
*None of those country songs, were referred to as rock music, BECAUSE AT THE TIME, AND STILL NOW, COUNTRY MUSIC ISN’T, AND NEVER WAS WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL, DESPITE THEIR BLUES AND BLACK GOSPEL INFLUENCES!!! What the fuck are you talking about????
As I said before, THE MUSIC THAT WAS PLAYED BY BLACK R&B MUSICIANS, DURING THE LATE 40’S, AND EARLY 50’S, IS THE MUSIC THAT WAS LABELED AS ROCK AND ROLL, FOOL!! How many times do I have to repeat myself, dumb devil bastard???!! LOL!!!
Just because your precious “king” comes on the scene, with his black r&b, saturated style, with a little bit of country to boot, and come out with his music, doesn’t mean that you can compare his rendition of “Jailhouse Rock,” “Mystery Train,” “Jailhouse Rock,” and other songs with country music! Not that you are, but I will say that those songs, the ones I’ve just mentioned, are true rock and roll songs, because of the heavy r&b, dominated flavor, whereas the rest of that country shit wasn’t.
Last edited by TheReal
on August 25th, 2004, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just the facts!