The birth of Rock and Roll

[TheReal]

My response to shadoworder:

I said:

dumb devil, despite the fact that Little Richard began playing up tempo r&b when he signed to Specialty (actually he was performing this way [up tempo and fast paced] live, in clubs, before he got with Specialty Records), and despite the fact that Elvis was recording a year before Little Richard reached Specialty, with his new up tempo style, DOESN’T MEAN THAT LITTLE RICHARD GOT HIS STYLE, NOR ANY OTHER SUBSEQUENT BLACK PERFORMER-FROM ELVIS!!!

Whereas he said:

***and when or where did i say he did??dont put words in my mouth,

My response:

Look ignorant bastard, no matter how you try and spin your shit, it will still not take away from what you inferred, in regards to the sound sthat Little Richard developed later at Specialty records, as opposed to what Elvis Presley had produced while at Sun records. When I stated that Little Richard first recorded his music prior to Elvis Presley, ergo, he was in the Rock game prior to Elvis, you stated, “little richard did record some singles for rca in 1951,after he won a talent contest,but the songs were slow bluesy numbers that flopped,and that had nothing in common with the sound that we associate with little richard,a sound(and look) that he developed when he joined the speciality record label in 1955.” What sound were you referring to DUMBASS???? From the context of what you were saying, Little Richard didn’t truly come out with music, that sounded even remotely like that of what is considered Rock and Roll, due to the fact that his music/recordings at the time, were primarily “slow bluesy numbers”, and that he really began to record rock records when he joined the Specialty Label, which recorded and produced his uptempo sound!!!

Furthermore, you buttressed this position with the notion that just because Elvis recorded prior to Little Richard, and supposedly created the Rock and Roll Sound while at Sun Records first, that it somehow bestows upon Elvis not only the title of “king” of Rock and Roll, but THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS ARTFORM!!! Why? Because again, according to you, LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS PRIOR TO ELVIS’S ADVENT AT SUN, WEREN’T REALLY ROCK RECORDS BUT “slow bluesy numbers”, WHICH IS BS!!!! I will admit, the great majority of them were, HOWEVER, they were no more “slower” than the cuts Elvis produced at Sun records, initially, and not all of his (Little Richard) cuts were slow paced, and that there were a few fast up tempo songs, FOOL!

That’s why I stated that Little Richard, nor any other black performer, got their style of music, and performance, from Elvis Presley! WHY? Because the style that Little Richard developed at Specialty records, WAS DEVELOPED PRIOR TO HIM, BY OTHER BLACK MUSICIANS, WAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY HAD HIT THE SCENE, AND THAT LITTLE RICHARD WAS FOLLOWING IN THE SAME TRADITION OF THOSE BLACK MUSICIANS, WHEREAS ELVIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE ORIGINATION OF ANY OF IT!!!!

But you know this already devil, so stop feigning ignorance, with your BS questions! Acting as if you’ve discovered a chink in my arguments! Bitch, you haven’t discovered a damn thing, and with that said-NEXT!!!!!

-and little richard was NOT playing in an uptempo style when he did those first recordings,even his own biography page in the r&r hall of fame says this
http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=179

*Contrary to what you would like to think devil, I HAVE HEARD OF LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS, PRIOR TO SPECIALTY, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE SONG “Little Richard’s Boogie,” a fast paced, up tempo r&b/rock song, that was recorded prior to Elvis Presley’s advent into the music industry. A song that was eventually his signature style, and beyond, when he finally landed at Specialty records.

Furthermore, seeing as how you’re going to that website of yours (and this fool claims that I’m a copy and paste king, which shows how much of a hypocrite he is, because I point out information he’s posted up, whereby he extracted whole texts from different websites; but I’ll get to that later), concerning Little Richard, I’d be remised if I didn’t mention the fact that on your beloved website, where you’re using it as ammo against my position, Little Richard, in his own words stated that Rock and Roll is essentially a mixture of “boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed.” As a matter of fact, his whole quote was concerning rock and roll is, and was (especially the 1950’s variety): “"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll." WHERE DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT COUNTRY AND WESTERN, DEVIL??? NO WHERE!!!! Why? BECAUSE COUNTRY AND WESTERN HADN’T A THING TO DO WITH THE CREATION OF ROCK AND ROLL!!!!! That fusion of country of western eventually occurred when white folks jumped on board, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOUR PEOPLE, OR ELVIS, CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, AND IT DAMN SURE DOESN’T MEAN THAT ROCK AND ROLL BEGAN WITH WHITE FOLKS, OR ELVIS IN PARTICULAR!!!!!!!!

As I said before, so say I now again, white folks were grafted into a musical stream that already existed prior to their advent into the music, bringing their own cultural ethos and flavor, and mixed it with black music, a music (black music) that was coined by Alan Freed as ROCK AND ROLL!!! A word that was inspired from a BLACK song, entitled, “My Baby Rocks me with a Steady Roll!!”

But as far as that term, I’ll deal with that further on down:

-his first recordings which FLOPPED and no one cared for or heard,were slow bluesy numbers that had nothing to do with the sound he would become famous for,a sound that wouldnt come into being till 1955,

*Read my above responses, seeing as how this dumb devil is beginning to go in circles, because that’s the only level of knowledge he can attain, and contain….

-(and little richards boogie was recorded in 1955,not 1953you twat.) over a year after elvis came out full blown with his sound already down,his revolutionary fusion of country and r&b that would be known as rock and roll:)


*Do you see how this serpent, forktongued devil operates, as well as his style of arguing. Now, with many weakminded folks reading his words, many will feel that this sucker-paul, baphomet muthafucka is right in this statement, seeing as how he say’s it with such verve and confidence, but all one would have to do, is do a little research, and peel away the layers on this devil, and what you’d see exposed is a phony, lying bastard, attempting to invoke JEDI MIND FUCKS!

Truth of the matter, despite what this eggo head fart, inverted, belowstairs devil says, THE RECORD STANDS ON THE VERY REAL FACT THAT ELVIS PRESLEY RECORDED “LITTLE RICHARD BOOGIE” IN 1953, AND NOT 1955!!! As a matter of fact, he recorded that song while on the Peacock Label (1953-1954), AND NOT AT SPECIALTY RECORDS, DUMB LYING SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!

Don’t be fooled by this arrogant, smug, cavalier, hammerheaded asshead, and his BS!!! This muthafucka is full of lies, whereby all he can do, when he’s presented with the truth, is spin, and LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE!!!!! Not only that, this muthafucka, when you read further on down the page, will go over hell and high water, and make light of my information, just because much of it comes off of various websites (as if he’s any different), and will claim that I haven’t truly listened to any of the recordings that I’ve put up, but just copied and pasted my whole entire pieces of information (this is something, again, I will deal with, further on down this thread, in this post), because he can’t adequately deal with the truth, so what he does it try to enter into folk’s psyches, by suggesting that just because I may have received much of my information from off of some websites, that it somehow suggests that my information is false, or that I’m a sham individual who doesn’t know what the fuck I’m talking about!

But you know, I’m getting a little ahead of myself here, let me continue on with his claiming that Little Richard’s song “Little Richard’s Boogie”, came out in 1955, WHEN IT DIDN’T:

As I said before, study this crafty devil, and see that this muthafucka is a grand sophist, who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and don’t be fooled by his confident airs!!! Little Richard’s song “Little Richard’s Boogie,” came out before his signing with Specialty records in 1955!!!!!!

As a matter of fact, here’s a website to back up my truthful claim (and yeah muthafucka, I’m resorting to a website, just like your dumb, devil ass does, in order to buttress your points; what it is, is that you’re just mad because I utilize the system with truth on my side, and the facts pointing in my direction, but as I said before, I’ll deal with this topic, further on down this thread):

http://www.kolumbus.fi/timrei/lre.htm

Besides, if this serpent muthafucka can utilize a website, SO CAN I!!!!

Also check this site out:

http://www.silver-dragon-records.com/rnr1.htm

NEXT:

I said:

Here’s why:

In 1953, when Elvis began recording at Sun Records, under the tutelage of Sam Philips (according to him-Sam Phillips-not legend, he was looking for a white man, with that black “feel” and “sound”), the songs he (Elvis) recorded weren’t all up-tempo songs!!! Songs like "My Happiness" (which was recorded first by a black group calling themselves the Inkspots, to which Elvis sung the song almost exactly the way the black lead performer did), “That’s When Your Heartaches Begin,” “Careless Love,” “Casual Love Affair,” and “I’ll Never Stand in Your Way”, weren’t the up tempo songs fused with blues/r&b/country that made Elvis Presley famous! OH HELL NO!!!These songs, just like Little Richard’s earlier recordings before he got with Specialty records (1951-1954), which predated Elvis Presley’s ascension into the recording industry, were very slow paced songs, which were either originally sung, or written-AGAIN-by black male performers and writers!!!

Whereas he said:

***but wait a minute,you just said his music was uptempo and

My response:

What the fuck are you talking about?

-"Hell! At least some of Little Richard’s recordings, prior to getting with Specialty-songs like “Little Richard’s Boogie (1953)-had that up tempo fast paced beat, that was common for typical rock songs of the 50’s,"

*And? Where’s the confusion, or controvery, DUMBASS DEVIL???? Could you please explain???

-you cant even stay on top of your own BS,LOL.

*First of all, the only one’s spewing BS, it’s you, imbecilic bastard, and furthermore, I really do believe that you’ve gone off of the deep end, because you’re now claiming that you’ve tagged me, on something that you yourself can’t fully articulate!!!

What? My information has always been consistent, which was, the style that you’re wanting to claim for Elvis Presley (up tempo and fast paced), wasn’t even something that Elvis Presley himself created in the studio, which catapulted his recordings into being considered the first rock records! Rather I’m highlighting how Elvis Presley, just like Little Richard, came out with slow paced songs (by the way, many of those songs that Elvis performed [not all], were written and sung first, by black men, whereby he copied and mimicked their style; an issue that I’ll be dealing with further on down this thread) originally, and that the sound that you consider rock and roll, was put out waaaaaaay before Elvis even looked at Sun records, and that when Little Richard went to Specialty records, his up tempo, fast paced, way of performing, wasn’t something that was inspired by Elvis Presley, BUT BY OTHER BLACK MUSICIANS THAT PRECEDED HIM FOOL!!!!!

So what the fuck are you talking about?????

-the big difference is that little richards first few singles were slow and cliched blues,that flopped.

*So what if they “flopped?” I really don’t give a fuck if they did! There were other black musicians before him, and during his time, and especially before Elvis Presley, that made songs that weren’t flops, BUT HITS!!! And again, these were rock records!!!

-elvis may have recorded those slow songs,but his FIRST release was" thats all right/blue moon of kentucky "which had the new rock and roll sound down.

*It may have had a “new rock and roll sound down” and “the new…sound”, in regards to him bringing his own cultural flavor into the mix, insofar as country music and whatnot, BUT HE DIDN’T BRING IN THE ROCK AND ROLL SOUND, BECAUSE THAT SOUND EXISTED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE!!!

Remember and know this (especially those that are reading these words) Alan Freed, the white dj who first coined the phrase “Rock and Roll”, as I said before, coined this phrase during a time when he was primarily, and on many of occasions solely, playing BLACK MUSIC, THAT WAS LABELED AS R&B AT THE TIME!!!!! Simply put, the music he was playing (black r&b music) was being called by him (Alan Freed) ROCK AND ROLL!!! And guess what year he coined the black music he was playing, as Rock and Roll? 1951!!!!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE BILL HALEY AND THE COMETS (supposed father of Rock and Roll), and definitely way before Elvis Presley, again, even walked into Sun records!!!!!

So bitch, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, IN THAT REGARDS!!! How so? BECAUSE HOW IN THE FUCK CAN ELVIS PRESLEY, LOGICALLY, COME OUT WITH THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD, WHEN BLACK MUSIC WAS ALREADY BEING CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY EVER DECIDED TO RECORD?????? Don’t you folks see the historical, eurocentric, slanted BS, this devil is trying to prop up, by claiming that Elvis Presley created Rock and Roll, whereas much of Elvis Presley’s music, especially his hits, (many of which were written by a black man named Otis Blackwell), and style of performing on stage, WAS TAKEN FROM BLACK FOLKS!!!!

It’s like eurocentric devils claiming that Christopher Columbus discovered America, when this landmass was already inhabited!! What arrogance, to think that something hasn’t been created or discovered, until white muthafuckas give it their imprimatur!!! And this is exactly what you’re doing devil, with the origins of rock and roll, and subsequently claiming that Elvis Presley was the first rock and roller, and “king”!!

What it is, is that ELVIS PRESLEY IS WHITE FOLKS “king”, AND THE FIRST WHITE MAN TO LEAD YOUR PEOPLE ACROSS THE DRY DESERT OF YOUR OWN STALE MUSIC AT THE TIME, INTO A LAND OF MUSIC, WITH HEART AND SOUL!!!! That is what Elvis’s main contribution was fool!!! Just because you folks had Elvis, DOESN’T MEAN THAT BLACK FOLKS DIDN’T HAVE NUMEROUS FOLKS OF THEIR OWN RACE, PLAYING THIS MUSIC!!

I said:

Whereas with Elvis, the songs he was originally recording in 1954 (a couple of years after Little Richard first hit the scene), as I stated before, weren’t the songs that we associate with him later on during the 1950’s, which catapulted him to being referred to falsely as the “king” of rock n’ roll!! And not only that fool, most of the songs that he was recording, WERE WRITTEN AND PERFORMED PREVIOUSLY BY BLACK MEN!!

Whereas he said:

***again either you are too stupid or too racist to realize,that just because you cover a song,doesnt mean that you do it in the same exact manner that the original was in.elvis version of "thats allright"was different from the original(and yeah ive haerd it,have you??)

My response:

Naw fool, you can accuse me of being racist aaaaaaaaallllll you want to, but it still doesn’t take away the fact that you are indeed, a racist devil your damn self, who’s trying to disguise his horns, but isn’t doing a good job of it!! You’re the type of devil who will bring up racist discussions and will make racist statements, and as soon as someone attacks your racism, you will automatically attempt to jedi-mind fuck them into thinking that it is truly them that are racist, for thinking that your sleight of hand racism, isn’t racism!!! Yeah fool, I’ve come across your hypocritical kind before devil, and just because you’re not using racial epitaphs, doesn’t mean that you’re not a white supremacist, eurocentric racist!!!! Besides fool, YOU KNOW THAT YOU’RE A RACIST YOUR DAMN SELF, SO WHY FAKE THE FUNK BITCH???

Now, with that said, I do realize that cover versions of songs will not sound 100% like the original versions, however, if you reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllly have listened to Arthur Crudup’s version of “That’s Alright Mama,” (as well as “My Happiness”, or those songs performed by the Mills Brothers, and especially Otis Blackwell) YOU’LL WILL NOTICE THE DISTINCT SIMILARITIES: especially if you were to listen to Otis Blackwell’s demos, as well as other demos!

-so was his version of "hound dog"which differed ENORMOUSLY from big mama thorntons version.

*Now that this is one point I agree on.

But back to the discussion:

I said:

fool, the fact that his song “That’s Alright Mama”, which is a song originally written and performed by a black man named Arthur Crudup, was successful, DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU CAN EXTRACT IT FROM ITS’ BLACK ROOTS!! Have you ever heard the original tune FOOL!!!!! I bet you never did, in your rush to exterminate black folks status as the originators of rock music!!! Arthur Crudup’s version basically has the same tempo as Elvis Presley’s version, and Arthur’s version was recorded IN THE 1940’S!!!

Whereas he said:

***sorry as i said,i have heard the original,and it doesnt sound the same,the tempo is similar,but the vocals,guitar,and backing is different,as is the production.

My response:

Just because the production is different, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE VOCALS AND TEMPO (which you admitted to, in regards to tempo) were not the same!! And okay, let’s say that the vocals were slightly different, in the sense that they have two distinct voices, THE PRODUCTION ON ELVIS PRESLEY’S RECORDING OF THE SAME SONG, DOESN’T MAKE IT THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD EVER, FOOL!!!!! Pat Boone, when he sung “Tutti Frutti”, a song originally performed and sung by Little Richard, DOES THAT MEAN THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT PAT BOONE WAS SINGING, WAS OUTSIDE OF THE PALE OF WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL? Hell no!!!!

The same genre of music that Pat Boone performed during the 50’s (many of which were cover versions of songs performed and written by black singers), at the time, was considered Rock music, nothing original, only that it contained a different production, and a different way of singing the song; which was new and revolutionary in one sense, but not wholly original, to where you would place a new musical artform at his feet: THE SAME WITH ELVIS!!!

And also as I said before, Elvis Presley, as well other white musicians like Jerry Lee Lewis for instance, would perform songs that were written by black musicians, especially Otis Blackwell, who had the jerky and bouncy, vocally constricting type of singing style, which is evident, if you were to have listened to any of the original demos: demos that doesn’t sound anything remotely to country music; demos that Elvis the pelvis, and Jerry Lee, COPIED WHOLESALE!!!

In songs like “All Shook Up,” “Heartbreak Hotel,” and “Jailhouse Rock,” the demos, just like the Elvis recordings, contained none of that country and western influence you’re referring to!! Neither does “Don’t Be Cruel,” and “Return to Sender,” nor does the vocals!!! And mind you, these were the primary bulk of songs that made Elvis famous during the 50’s, and catapulted him to record chart breaking success throughout that decade! If I’m not mistaken, all of those songs were number 1 hits, and they were all written and performed first, by a black man, named Otis Blackwell, whose vocal stylings, Elvis Presley later adopted fully!

Oh and lastly fool, just in case I didn’t stress it well enough-I DID HEAR, AND DO POSSESS, THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF ARTHUR CRUDUP’S SONG, ON VINYL!! I picked it up from an antique record store in El Cerrito, Ca, called “Down Home Music.” Look it up, it’s there!

-ONCE again,let me say(because i said it before,but your kinda slow it seems)

*The only one that’s slow between you and I devil, is you!! You’re not only slow though, YOU ARE ALSO A DAMN LIAR, AND A SOPHIST!!!

-im not denying the black influence,

That may be true, HOWEVER, when you say that black folks only influenced this music, as opposed to creating this music, but rather give that distinction to Elvis Presley, the supposed “king” of rock and roll-THAT’S WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!! Why? Because as I stated before, within the evidence that I had posted up previously, and even within this thread, that the music that was labeled Rock and Roll (r&b music of the late 40’s and early 50’s), by the dj Alan Freed, existed waaaaaaaaaay before Elvis Presley even came on the scene, so how can one honestly, with a straight face, refer to Elvis as recording the first rock and roll record, as well being the first to play rock and roll, when there are other musicians (namely black musicians) who existed before Elvis, and who was playing a music that was, and is called Rock and Roll???

So in the end, like a latently racist, forktongued snake and grimy lizard, you may not be “denying the black influence” on rock music-only because it really can’t be denied, based on all available evidence-BUT YOU ARE MISPLACING THEIR INFLUENCE AND THEIR LEGACY, BY PROPPING UP YOUR WHITE, SUPPOSED “king” OF ROCK AND ROLL, ELVIS PRESLEY: when in reality, he wasn’t the “king” of anything, nor the creator of this art form!

-but you are definitely denying and belittling the white influence,


*No devil, I’m not “denying and belittling the white influence,” on Rock music; rather I, unlike you, am placing white folks in their proper place, in regards to their contributions to rock and roll, instead of as the creators and originators of this form! You see, when I deny your man Elvis, the bogus title of being the “king” of rock music, as well as the first person to record a “rock” record, that’s when your eurocentric, egotistical, privileged, latently racist mind, goes into overdrive, and accuse me of “denying and belittling the white influence,” just because I refuse to go along with your revisionist BS!!!

Devil, you have your nerves! LOL!!

-all your doing is contradicting yourself over and over,

*Look here devil, just because you say I’m “contradicting” myself “over and over,” doesn’t make it so!! Truth be told, amidst all your sophist BS rantings, you have yet to extract where I’ve contradicted myself anywhere: YOU JUST ACCUSE ME OF DOING SO, either because your dimwitted, and a slowpoke bitch, or your trying to invoke jedi-mindfucks off onto others, by trying to convince them, as well as myself, of something that is there, or isn’t there

Bitch you ain’t slick, you’re just a bona-fide trick that full of shit!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

NEXT!!!!!!

-your saying its a black music,

*You damn straight, one trick pony bastard, only because IT IS, and the fact that it was labeled as Rock and Roll, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY, BILL HALEY, CARL PERKINS, JERRY LEE LEWIS, AND OTHERS OF YOUR KIND, HIT THE SCENE!!!!!

When this music was called Rock and Roll, it was called so during a point and time, WHEN ALL THE PERFORMERS WERE BLACK, AND THE MUSIC THEY WERE PLAYING WAS R&B, with a little boogie-woogie to boot! Because remember, from the website you posted up of Little Richard (you know the one you attempted to use against me) Brother Richard says: ““"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll."

And I have to admit, I agree with Little Richard any day, as opposed to a revisionist eurocentric, LIAR like you!! LOL!!!

-im saying its a white music made by putting together black and white forms,you say im wrong,

*Hell yeah you’re wrong, because no matter how much you try and grasp for straws, in trying to convince me, of how rock music originated-at the hands of white folks, primarily a single white man-the historical record say’s otherwise, FOOL!!!! And seeing as how the historical record say’s otherwise, it would be a great waste of time, trying to convince me of your deluded and revisionist interpretations of history!!!!

So again, FUCK YEAH I SAY YOU’RE WRONG!! Shit! You’d thought I’d say any differently!

-but then you say" Rock music, by many white folks at the time, despite the country/hillbilly fusion of some of its elements..."

*Pull up the whole quote, and the surrounding portions, so that I may receive the broader context, in which you’re aiming for…

-i could sit here and point out how certain elements of blues
music comes diectly from celtic /scottish folk music,and i could belittle the whole history of blues by saying ,like you are,"so what,its has white musical roots,its composed on western instruments like the guitar,its based on modified european scales,etc,etc",i wont do that,because it would be false.

*I know it would be devil, AND?

-blacks were influenced by whites ,

*True enough, I never denied this, but I did say however, based on recordings that were companions to books put out by Robert Palmer and Alan Lomax, that a certain strain of the blues (i.e. Delta), do have direct linkage to many aspects of west African music! Especially those west Africans who played kora (string like instrument, somewhat similar to the guitar)!

-but made their own sound out of it.

*Again, this is true, based on the elements that they (black folks) put up on the music, AND?

-if you can acknowledge that,but refuse to do the same with rock and roll,its because you are straight up racist.

*Naw bitch, it’s you who are the one who’s a straight up racist muthafucka, who’s hiding behind the covering of truth and honesty, when again, all you are is jedi-mindfuck, sophist, belowstairs, racist, hammerheaded, devil, who has never denied he’s racist, but yet will still try and convince others, as well as himself, that he isn’t racist!

With that said, let’s continue:

He said:

and oh by the way...were do you suppose the roots of rhythm and blues lie at??yep it comes from the blues,now where did the blues partially come from again???those "black roots"that you are talking about in rock and roll,are shot thru with a healthy dose of vanilla,my man,LOL.

*Yeah fool, but one thing you are supremely overlooking-whether or not blues/r&b, have been polluted by “a healthy dose of vanilla”, the vanilla by itself would have never, couldn’t have ever, produced the music that black folks eventually created, WITHOUT THE BLACK RHYTHM AND SOUL!!!! Why do you think I argued with one on this site, concerning what black folks contributed culturally in this country, seeing as how much of their material culture (not all) was stripped away from them, to where when white folks gave them lemons, black folks made lemonade, and created something new and distinct!

The reason why it’s not the same, AGAIN, with Elvis Presley, and his white boy confederacy (Bill Haley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, et al), in the sense that their music (black music, mixed with white folks music), was, and is the music that originated rock and roll, is because of the fact that, BEFORE THESE FOLKS EVEN RECORDED AND CAME ON THE SCENE, THE MUSIC THAT WAS REFERRED TO AS “ROCK AND ROLL”, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN BLACK MUSICIANS WERE PRIMARILY, AND SOLELY, PLAYING THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!! That’s the difference!!

With the fear of sounding redundant:

The black r&b music that Alan Freed played on the radio, inspired him to call it (the music) Rock and Roll, a term that was taken from black slang, which referred to the sex act! And mind you, this music was first called Rock music, in 1951, prior to the advent of Elvis Presley, Bill Haley, and others of their kind, again, HIT THE SCENE-SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

Again, there’s the difference, BITCH! LOL!!!!

I said:

As a matter of fact, waaaaaaaaaaay before Elvis, and the supposed “Father of Rock n’ Roll”, Bill Haley (a man who preceded Elvis, in recording what is known as the “first” official rock song in 1954: Rock Around the Clock), you had black performers before the two of them (yes, even going back to the 30’s) performing songs that were classified either as race records, or blues records, that displayed the exact same up tempo beats, that was commonly associated with Rock music during the 1950’s. Musicians like Big Joe Turner in collaboration with Pete Johnson, who in 1938 put out a song called “Roll ‘Em Pete,” and later recorded “The Night Time is the Right Time,” and “Shake Rattle and Roll,” before Bill Haley put his hands on it!!!!

Additionally, I almost forgot about the song “Rock Me”, by the Lucky Millinder Orchestra, that was recorded during the 1930’s; Wynonie Harris’ version of “Good Rockin Tonight,” in 1949; the Washboard Rhythm Kings, and their song “Tiger Rag”, in 1931; "Flying Home" by jazz vibraphonist Lionel Hampton and his orchestra in 1939. The tenor sax solo by Illinois Jacquet, recreated and refined live by Arnett Cobb, is considered an early model for rock and roll solos ever since, emotional, honking, long, not just an instrumental break but the keystone of the song.

Whereas he can only say:

***great cut and paste job as usual,and of course you expect anyone to believe you have actually heard all these songs you just mentioned??dont make me laugh

My response:

Again, this slick slithering serpent, who has no where else to go, nor can he deny the information that I’ve just posted, and come back with his own adequate rebuttal, so all he can do is smear the way I obtained the information, as opposed to the truthfulness of the information. And regardless of whether I copied and pasted this information, AM I LYING!!! Or better yet, is the information FALSE MUTHAFUCKA!!!! Yeah devil, that’s what I thought!!

And you wonder why I call you a BEEEEEEEYATCH!!!! Just look at you fool, and the cowardly desperate, tactics you have to utilize, in order to attack my information!!!

I said:

Robert Johnson’s “Milk Cow Blues (recorded by Elvis Presley, with the same tempo),” “If I Had Possession Over Judgment Day,” “I Believe I’ll Dust My Broom,” and “Sweet Home Chicago,” just to name a few, were, and are classified as blues songs (even though it had a strong r&b feel to it), yet they were all up tempo, frenetically fast paced songs!!!! (White groups like the Rolling Stones, et al, recorded many of these songs as well.) And guess what? THEY WERE ALL RECORDED IN THE 1930’S!!! Furthermore, if you were to listen to all of these songs, you will see where much of the early rock and roll of the 50’s, and remnants thereof, has its’ roots, in their syncopated bluesy rhythms and pulsating beats!! These songs were the foundation of rock n’ roll music, and if folks don’t want to claim these songs as being strictly blues, then so be it, but one thing folks can’t deny-THE FOUNDATION WAS STILL ROOTED AND BIRTHED IN BLACK MUSIC!!!

Whereas he can only say:

***once again,as always,another long batch of cut and paste,the lazy mans way of debate,lol. i hope no one reading your post is dumb enough to believe you actually wrote all that yourself,

My response:

Again, you claim not to be a racist, yet you accuse me of not utilizing my own intellect, in regards to the above post, but that I have to borrow, copy, and paste shit off of various websites!!! Fool! The above post, ARE MY OWN WORDS, AND I DARE YOU TO PROVE OTHERWISE!!!!

What? Just because my information was on point, some white man had to come up with it!!!
Bitch, don’t get me started on your dumbass, because I can retrieve some information over on that other post of yours, that was lifted directly from websites!!!! In the end, this is a diversionary tactic that you’re using, in order to take away from the real issue-WHICH IS THE TRUTHFULNESS OF THE INFORMATION THAT I’M PUTTING UP!

-or you have actually listened to a single one of those artists you have mentioned.your not fooling me for one microsecond with that crap.

*Yeah right muthafucka, and much to your dislike and seething hatred, I DO HAVE ROBERT JOHNSON’S CD’S!!! I purchased both of his Cd’s entitled “Robert Johnson: King of the Delta Blues,” both volumes I and II!! (Presently, there’s an anthology of Robert Johnson out, that contains all of his songs together, including retakes; this anthology won a grammy award) Not only that, Wynonie Harris, Lucky Millinder, Charlie Christian, Reverend Gary Thomas (ragtime blues musician), the Washboard Rhythm Kings, Big Joe Turner, Lionel Hampton, and others, I’ve collected from antique record stores like the one in El Cerrito, Ca, (Down Home music), Tower Records, and other outlets, FOOL!!!!

So bitch, again, your racist devil, scum-slug crawling ass don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about!!! Up there stereotyping me, and just presuming that he knows my record collection, and where my sources are springing from, AS IF HE DOESN’T SURF THE NET FOR INFORMATION! This fool thought that I only listened to hip-hop/rap music, and was caught up in the bling-bling: WELL YOU THOUGHT WRONG BITCH!!!

Just like a devil, can’t challenge you on the information, so he attacks the source and credibility of the information, only because he can’t DENY THE INFORMATION!!! If anything, no one ought not be fooled by you devil, and BS and deceptive ways!!!

But let’s continue!!

-anyways,please tell me where i said in my post that black music wasnt an influence on rock and roll??you are reacting like i said rock and roll was born fully formed out of a white mans mind, with no links to the past

*Likewise, please tell me where I did indeed accused you of that!! Now if I did, I was wrong for doing so, and was probably just caught up in the moment, but if I didn’t say that, then again, YOUR DEVIL ASS IS PRODUCING MORE LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES!!!!!! As I said before on the post prior to this one, which was akin to: “Of course you have to admit black folks influence upon the birth of rock music, BECAUSE IT’S UNDENIABLE, AND CAN’T BE AVOIDED, FOOL!!” HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

-i have said before,and ill say it again,rock androll ,in the 50s,when it began,was a fusion of black R&B(which includes all those artists you mentioned,but have actually never heard) and white country music

*Naw devil bitch, YOU ONLY WISH I NEVER HEARD THAT MUSIC BEFORE, IN ORDER TO SEQUESTER ME INTO A BOX OF BS ARTISTS LIKE YOURSELF!!! Trust me, you do indeed have black folks out there who listen to black music of the past, instead of being stuck on contemporary styles solely!!! HELL!! I use to play the acoustic guitar, sometimes with a slide accompaniment, while listening to cats like Robert Johnson, Son House, Charlie Patton (very hard to understand, I might add), Blind Lemon Jefferson, Reverend Gary Davis, while in college, FOOL!!! So bitch, you’re not telling me nothing about the music of my people, and what I’ve heard!

And as far as rock music, that originated in the 50’s, being a fusion of black music (r&b) and country music, well-THAT’S BS!!!!!! As I’ve said before, so say I now again, ROCK MUSIC, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN IT WAS BEING PERFORMED SOLELY BY BLACK MUSICIANS, WAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE THE FUSION OF COUNTRY MUSIC, AND WHITE FOLKS, HIT THE SCENE-AND THAT’S THE UNADULTERATED, UNCOMPROMISED TRUTH, NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT!!
Likewise, no matter what you say, or want to proclaim, ELVIS THE PELVIS PRESLEY, DIDN’T CREATE, INVENT ROCK N’ ROLL, NEITHER DID HE PUT OUT THE FIRST ROCK RECORD, FOOL!! LOL!!

-and listen to how you contradict yourself,

*Okay, I’m listening, I’m listening…

-you say rock and roll existed in the 40s,but it was called r&b or race music it wasnt called rock and roll

*No devil, what I said in summary was: “These songs (r&b/race music) were the foundation of rock n’ roll music,” and that the same music, especially the up tempo r&b kind of the late 40’s and early 50’s, was the music that was eventually called “ROCK AND ROLL”, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ANYONE HAS EVER HEARD OF ELVIS (your supposed “king” and originator of this art form)!!!! Oh yeah, and the music that was eventually called Rock and Roll WAS BLACK MUSIC, FROM BLACK MUSICIANS, without any country and western fusion-IT WAS STRICTLY R&B!!!!

-the term wasnt used to describe a specific musical genre till elvis came along,

*When do you consider Elvis coming along, IN 1954!!!! Look here you dumb bitch (and I hope folks are seeing this accurately for what it is) AS I SAID BEFORE, THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE, AND DROPPING HIS FIRST RECORD, PERIOD!!! THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED BY ALAN FREED, TO DESCRIBE THE TYPE OF BLACK R&B MUSIC HE PLAYED ON THE RADIO!!!!! FURTHERMORE, HE COINED THIS PHRASE IN 1951, again, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY WAS EVEN A THOUGHT ON THE MUSICAL LANDSCAPE, YOU DUMB, IGNORANT DEVIL BASTARD!!!!

Man, what the fuck is wrong with you?????? Are you that fuckin’ blinded by your own racist need for Elvis to the “king?”

-you also admit that whites added their own thing to it,so what is the problem??

*Yes I did admit that white folks added their own distinct and cultural flavor onto this music, so in that sense you’re right!!!! There’s no contradiction, or shame in my game!! But look here devil, JUST BECAUSE WHITE FOLKS ADDED THEIR OWN DISTINCT CULTURAL FLAVOR SOMEWHAT, ONTO THIS MUSIC, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Their musical contributions and style, is similar to the many genres of rock music you have out there today, that has nothing to do with r&b, or country and western, but lends more towards jazz and classical music!!!!!

In other words, as I’ve said previously, white musicians, such as Elvis Presley, were grafted into the family of Rock music, as opposed to, AGAIN, creating it: THAT’S ALL I’M SAYING, FUCK YOUR REVISIONIST BS!!!

-rock around the clock wasnt the first rock and roll song,

*I KNOW IT WASN’T !!!! LOL! But then again devil, one can say that, “Rock Around the Clock” was the first “rock and roll song” for WHITE FOLKS!!!!! As I proved already, black musicians were already playing music that was labeled as Rock and Roll, before Bill Haley hit the scene with this recording!

-it was the first rock and roll song to be a hit ,

*Yeah, again for white folks! But let me ask you this, in your opinion, WHAT WAS THE FIRST ROCK SONG, IF THIS SONG WASN’T THE FIRST ONE, RATHER, JUST THE FIRST ONE TO BECOME A HIT?

-it was recorded in 1954,

*Yeah, is that when white folks were fully and nationally grafted into the rock music culture, because, er uh-songs like “Good Rockin’ Tonight,” “Sixty Minute Man,” “Guitar Boogie,” “The Fat Man,” “Standing at the Crossroads (Elmore James version)”, etc.-WAS ALL RELEASED PRIOR TO 1954 (some in the late 40’s)!!! And this music, as well as the music other black performers were playing, IS WHAT WAS CALLED BY ALAN FREED, IN 1951, AS ROCK AND ROLL!!!!

-but it became a nationwide hit in 1955,when it was used in the flick blackboard jungle,and yes,it was also a hit on the country and r&b charts as well,

*This I already know fool!! So what, you’re saying that just because this song was made in 1954, and the fact that it became a hit in 1955, and that it became a hit on the country charts, THAT IT SECURES THE NOTION THAT ROCK MUSIC IS BASICALLY R&B AND COUNTRY MUSIC MIXED TOGETHER? Well again, YOU’RE WRONG!!! Because as I said before, with the fear of sounding redundant-BLACK MUSIC, PRIOR TO WHITE FOLKS ENTRY INTO THIS ART FORM, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WAY BEFORE BILL HALEY AND ELVIS PRESLEY’S ASCENSION ON THE ROCK LANDSCAPE!!!

-thanks for reminding me,and proving my point once againLOL.

*The only point you’re proving, is the fact that you’re a boneheaded, duncical nincompoop, who resorts to red-herring arguments, and diversionary tactics, just because he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about!! Whereas I on the other hand, have made my positions clear, despite the inflammatory language, but you, as a rat, can only run in circles, like a dizzy lizzie, because in the end you’re just a silly, little intellectual, lightweight BITCH, WHO HASN’T PROVEN A DAMN THING!!!

-yeah the red hot and blue show would mainly play r&b,and yeah,they played that song on it,so why would it surprise you that they liked it??it has a very strong r&b feel to it,since thats one of the ingredienst that make up rock and roll,but it also got airplay in 1954 on the louisiana hayride,a live country music radio show from shreveport.elvis performed live on that show,and was so popular with the listeners,that he made 52 apperances on it,within the year,

*And what’s the point bitch? Are you then saying that just because this “song (I now assume, you’re referring to Elvis the Pelvis)” was played on r&b stations, as well as country stations, that this somehow magically makes Elvis Presley the “king” of rock and roll, as well as the originator? Is this what you dumbass is saying??

Well, before I jump to conclusions, let me read on further…

-so explain to me genius,

*Well, thank you, thank you!

-if elvis was playing black music,r&b,race music,whatever halfassed name you want to throw out,

*Uh-huh, uh-huh…

-why was he embraced by the country crowd??? why did he spend most of 1955 touring on package tours with other country artists??

*Okay, that’s simple:

As I said before, Elvis Presley not only recorded country songs strictly (which he did), he also recorded r&b songs, as well as songs that-in the words of how you put it-fused both r&b and country music together!!!! I never denied this fool!!!! What I denied is the lie that he was the creator and founder of the musical artform ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!

This has always been my consistent position, yet you accuse me of being a slowpoke????

-elvis music was familiar enough that someone into r&b exclusively could get into him,or someone into country could get into him,but different enough that people who werent into either form could get into him as well.

*Read the above reply…

-most music historians place the birth of rock and roll at elvis door,not little richard,who didnt find his voice till 1955.

*To the contrary, only a hand full of music historians, and if the birth of rock and roll does indeed land at Elvis’s feet, then how about the “first” rock hit song by Bill Haley and the Comets. Remember, Bill Haley, by many music historians with a bias, claim him (Bill Haley) as the “father” of Rock and Roll, WHICH IS REVISIONIST, EUROCENTRIC BS!!! Just like it is eurocentric revisionist BS, to “place the birth of rock and roll at elvis door,” even though black music was labeled as Rock and Roll, even before Elvis Presley recorded, or even had a hit!!

With that said, the “voice” that Little Richard did eventually find in 1955, drew from a stream that originated from black performers, and had nothing at all to do with Elvis Presley!

Again, you’re looking at this from a myopic, eurocentric angle, that only wishes to see the white advent into this musical form, as opposed to what fully preceded it!

He said:

-was that his first record "thats alright"was a hit on the r&b,pop,AND country charts,and no,they didnt know what color he was when the record took off, so dont give me the "he was white"crap.it crossed over,because it was something unique and new,and mind you,this was in the jim crow south!

My response:

*As far as this song being a hit on the country chart, or any national chart for that matter, is debatable, but what I do know is that is was a local, and regional hit, I doubt if it was national. With that said, when the song “That”s Alright” came out, of course no one knew the race of Elvis Presley, simply because, MOST EVERYONE (both black and white) THOUGHT HE WAS BLACK, UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT OTHERWISE!!!!!!
Remember, Sam Phillips had taken Elvis’s recording “That’s Alright”, over to Dewey Phillips (a white man), a local Memphis DJ, who had the most integrated listening audience in the south, or at least in that region, and he would mostly play, to almost solely play, black music on the regular, to where when he played Elvis Presley’s version of Arthur Crudup’s “That’s Alright Mama,” folks in the area didn’t think of the sound of this song as being new and revolutionary, per se-rather they tagged it as a song, sung by a black performer, within the black musical idiom!

Whereas he can only say:

***no,people thought it was original,and it got played on country radio shows too,as i said previously,so that proves that it was a new form of music,and not the same old thing.

My response:

People thought that it was original, only in the sense of its’ production, or those who were ignorant of the original. Furthermore, the fact that they (listening public) thought that he was black, still goes back to the kind of music that Elvis Presley was essentially performing!!

-pat boone didnt cover those little richard songs till 1956/57,long after elvis was established

*So what? The similiarities between the two were that they were, and are white; they covered versions of songs written and performed by black folks; and at the time, they became more famous than the black folks who recorded those songs, which is evidenced in how those songs became hits when they touched them, whereas when black folks first put them out there, they weren’t! And in many ways, that’s because of the predominant, consumer driven white market, wanting to purchase black music, coming under the shade of white skin, than the originals…

I said:

The fact that this song became famous throughout Memphis, doesn’t necessarily mean that Elvis created a “new” sound, rather it lends towards the fact that the song, WAS JUST A DAMN GOOD SONG, PERIOD!!! Now when the listening public got a hold of the fact that he was white, particular at the time, THEY WENT BALLISTIC!!! Many white performers that were covering black songs, like Pat Boone, Elvis Presley and Bill Haley, amongst other white performers at the time, became more famous, and were compensated more graciously, than the black performers who originally sung their own songs!!! (Pat Boone was notorious for being a cultural bandit, seeing as how he vanquished Little Richard and Fats Domino’s music collection, and received fame more fame in the process, at the time.) This was just a trend at the time!
Furthermore, Elvis Presley used to visit black clubs, and theatres showcasing black performers, where the black acts, or lead singer, would gyrate their hips, and even become more obscene than Elvis ever became, by grinding the stage!! All these actions were already in vogue, amongst the black entertainment circuit, way before Elvis Presley hits the scene, but because Elvis does it, many in the white community then, as well as now, will view that as an original action on the part of Elvis, even though he was imitating BLACK PERFORMERS!!!

In other words, it’s more sexier, seeing as how it’s coming from the body of a white man, and will even be praised by many, whereas when black performers from the time performed that way, it was either considered standard issue (e.g., that’s just what those “niggers” do), or savagely obscene by the white majority!! The proof is how many considered Elvis Presley’s hip movements, as well as Rock music overall, as “nigger music,” and "nigger behavior!" And this was coming from white folks at the time (1950’s) that should know better, seeing as how they were closer to the ascension of what was going on!

Rock music, by many white folks at the time, despite the country/hillbilly fusion of some of its elements, was still considered, even by white racists, AS BLACK MUSIC!!! What it is, is that nowadays, the white youth, and contemporaries of this generation, have been raised and deluged in rock music (ad infinitum), to where many have lost the connection, either intentionally, or unintentionally, with its’ historical roots, because of their own latently racist agendas!

Whereas he said:

***ive heard a lot of black has beens say that elvis stole his moves from blacks,yet ive never seen footage of any black performer,that would move in the same exact way as elvis,so until someone can show me that,ill file it in my afrocentric BS file, along with your other posts.

My response:

I don’t care what file you decide to put that information in devil!!! The fact that you dismiss it, doesn’t take away the validity and truthfulness of the information!! Hell, much of what you say, have already been filed away, in my eurocentric BS file, devil! And believe me, it’s voluminous!!! Again, this is just smokescreen drivel, from a devil who can’t FUCK with the information put before him!

Pitiful devil…

Furthermore, I’ve seen documentaries, and footage, of performers such as T-Bone Walker (he would shake his hips, as well as do splits, while playing his guitar behind his head), as well as black r&b performers, from the late 40’s and 50’s, who would do similiarly! As a matter of fact, I remember once seeing a pbs documentary, where they were doing dances such as the Charleston, where two black couples were dancing, only to drift apart, with some distance between them, and when the partners decided to come back to one another, they were walking with their shoulders slumped over, as if their legs were full of dead weight-I’ve seen Elvis do this on more than one occasion! Black performers of this time period, specifically those of the r&b/blues variety, were always performing on stage, especially the ones with guitar in tow!

Secondly, it was known at the time, that Elvis would visit black clubs and venues, throughout his early life, as well as when he became famous, particularly in his early years, where he would mimick and copy, and later innovate, the dance movements he saw from these individuals.

As a matter of fact, this is a good read:

“Elvis Presley, a young, still-raw hayseed, was making his first trip to the Big Apple to see his new record company, and the Apollo was where he wanted to be. Night after night in New York he sat in the Apollo, transfixed by the pounding rhythms, the dancing and prancing, the sexual spectacle of rhythm-and-blues masters like Bo Diddley. He had heard and emulated black singers all his life, but now he saw how black music affected the world's toughest audience. It was good medicine for him, and he repeated the dose often and to amazing effect. In 1955, Elvis's stage presence was still rudimentary. But watching Bo Diddley charge up the Apollo crowd undoubtedly had a profound effect on him. When he returned to New York a few months later for his first national television appearance, on Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey's "Stage Show," he again spent hours at the Apollo after rehearsals. On the Dorsey show Elvis shocked the entire country with his outrageous hip-shaking performance, and the furor that followed made him an American sensation.”

http://www.apollobook.com/pages/2/

-you know im saying,

*I know what you ain’t saying, which is anything above what is considered shit! I know that for a fact!

-or rather im debating early 50s rock and roll,

*I know this bitch, so what’s your point?

-are you actually saying that rock and roll today,could still be considered black??

*Not what Rock has evolved into!! In other words, much of rock music today was grafted on, as the years succeeded and gotten further and further away from the raw regional stylings of the 1950’s. You had the British invasion (whose musicians admitted their love and fascination of black music, to where many of them covered versions, and/or performed in similar styles; at least initially), and other styles like heavy metal, death metal, etc., that black folks by and large, don’t cotton towards. Also, the musical styles that I’ve mentioned, one can argue, that it has not one drop of blues, or country and western licks attached to it all! Others will say that this is a debatable premise.

Regardless of whether that is so, or not, one thing that I do know, is the fact that much of black music evolved, and took a different path, than even their original raw, guitar driven, r&b, blues, and boogie-woogie sounds. Much of black music today, if it’s r&b, is ballad driven, and rap oriented, with the playing of real instruments in having any play in the process.

For instance, you may see a balladeer who’s black singing, whether they be male, or female, but many of them, will never pick up the guitar, as black musicians of the past would, with few exceptions, because it’s probably considered arcane imagery.

No, the stream of r&b, that was originally classified as Rock music, died out primarily during the 1960’s, with musicians from Stax record, and others, including James Brown to a bit. What eventually had happened was that black folks r&b stream of rock music, evolved into what was called “Soul” music during the 60’s, with emphasis on singers performing without a guitar in hand, and another music called “Funk”, which some folks labeled as Acid Rock!

Simply put, a divide had occurred to where there was white rock music, and black rock music. Black “rock” music, eventually evolved into again, “funk”, or “soul”, or group music, whereas white rock performers, began to fuse blues from electric blues guitar gods, jazz fusion, classical music, mid eastern music, etc.

Again, black folks didn’t go this route similarly to Hendrix, who was a distortion and feedback master, which is evidenced in “Purple Haze,” “Star Spangled Banner,” “Voodo Child,” etc.: a style of play that influenced up and coming generations of heavy metal guitar performers.

But I guess your racist devil ass is going to claim that I’ve never heard any of those songs either, right?

Fuck you and go to hell bitch!

-LOL.is that what you think???

-rock and roll by the mid 60s,sounded radically different from rock in the 50s,and this is before the whole sgt pepper/summer of love era,its mutated in so many different ways,in so many radical ways ,but your stupid ass is claiming its still a black form??

*Naw devil, the only “stupid ass” here is YOU!! You’re a “stupid ass” because you believe that white folks created rock and roll; you’re a “stupid ass”, because you claim that Elvis Presley created Rock and Roll; you’re a “stupid ass,” because all you could retort back, in the form of rebuttals, was the fact that I allegedly copied and paste wholesale, information from off of other websites, whereas not being able to answer or rebut any of the information posted; you’re the “stupid ass,” to even think I would care; you’re the “stupid ass,” to even pose such a dumb question to me, because in one of my earlier posts, I did admit that Rock music did indeed evolve, but that the origins of Rock music (the 1950’s variety) WAS CREATED BY BLACK FOLKS!! Not only that fool!!! Rock music did indeed evolve during the 60’s and took new twists and turns, but much of it (not all), still had it’s bluesy roots, intertwined with other musical influences, such as jazz (particular fusion) and classical music!!!

Again, my theme, despite what your forktongued devil ass say’s, has always been that ELVIS PRESLEY NOR WHITE FOLKS, CREATED THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT WAS KNOWN AS ROCK AND ROLL, BECAUSE BLACK R&B MUSIC AT THE TIME, THAT WAS BLUES AND BOOGIE WOOGIE DRIVEN, HAD THAT MONIKER (rock and roll) ATTACHED TO IT, WAAAAAAY BEFORE YOUR “king” AND HIS MINIONS, EVER CAME ON THE SCENE!!!!

Remember dumbass hellhound, it’s you, who is coming up with all this revisionism on the origins of this musical art form, not me devil!!

-i cant beleive that,even from you,clarify what you mean

*Read above me bitch, and let me move on! LOL!

NEXT!!

I said:

I can go further with this one theme, but let me move on, where I may just pick up on the same theme:

He said:

-also the b-side of thats all right was the bluegrass song "blue moon of kentucky",elvis recorded that bluegrass song with a strong r&b feel,the opposite of the a-side,which was an r&b song covered with a strong country feel.this is what rock and roll(in the 50s when it started)was.

My response:

*So what? I know this already! And by the way, this information in no way, shape or form, compromises my above information, as well as the information in my previous post. But never fear, further on down this paragraph, is this subject, in which I’ll be gladly returning to: but for now, LET’S MOVE ON!

He said:

-i should also point out that chuck berrys first hit"maybelline"was a similar r&b/country fusion,which is why that song crossed over to the pop and country charts as well as the r&b charts.in fact "maybelline" was actually an old country song called "ida red"that chuck rewrote.

Whereas I said:

Again fool, I KNOW THIS ALREADY, but it doesn’t mean that ROCK AND ROLL’S ORIGINS WERE ROOTED IN COUNTRY MUSIC, OR ANY TYPE OF BLUE GRASS GENRE!! Furthermore, I am a fair man, and did admit earlier, in a couple of posts prior to this one, that much of the codified form of black American music, was influenced by some aspects European styles (similar to Mexican music not being pure indigenous, but heavily influenced by European music, yet it is still called Mexican music), but was given flavor and soul, from the African-american ethos? I’ve admitted this already, and in the song Maybelline, Chuck Berry added his black cultural ethos within his stage performance, as well as the playing of this song, in order to give it the jolt that it had!

(But now, some will argue and say that’s what Elvis Presley did, in the majority of his recordings with Sun Records, and the point is well taken, however, it still doesn’t take away from the fact that when folks originally heard Elvis Presley, whether they were white or black, many of them unanimously thought that ol’ Elvis WAS A BLACK MAN!!!! And the purpose of me harping on Elvis Presley and his first few years of recording at Sun Records, was due to the fact that this fool “shadoworder,” inferred that Elvis Presley, unlike Little Richard, began to perform up tempo and fast paced, energetic rhythms and beats, before Richard’s advent at Specialty Records, therefore, according to shadoworders logic, seeing as how Elvis was the first to do so, amongst other factors, he can comfortably fit into the label as being not only the “king” of rock and roll, but the implication is the ORIGINATOR OF ROCK AND ROLL, which is BS!!!!

Whereas he said:

***again its a FACT that elvis had released his first couple of singles before either chuck or little richrad(i mean the real shit,i dont count his early blues flops)did,the rock and roll sound ws all there in that first single,and it was their before chuck or bo didley or anyone else,and all these dudes from the 40s that you mention,wynonie harris,joe turner,lousi jordan etc,etc,why arent music historians putting the start of rock with those guys????

My response:

I can give a fuck what most music historians say in regards to Elvis being the “king” and the first rock and roll performer, because as I said previously, so sayI again, THE MUSIC THAT BLACK MUSICIANS WERE PERFORMING, RATHER IT BE FATS DOMINO, BIG JOE TURNER, LLOYD PRICE, ETC., DURING THE LATE 40’S AND EARLY 50’S, IS WHAT ALAN FREED LABELED AS ROCK AND ROLL!!!!

Dumb devil, are you that stupid BITCH!!! Then again, I guess you are, BECAUSE YOU ARE A DUMB DEVIL!! LOL!

In addition, as I told you before, Little Richard recorded “Little Richard’s Boogie,” which was a song that can easily be interpreted as a rock song (because it was), prior to Elvis Presley, in 1953, on the Peacock Label, secondly, as far as Chuck Berry’s concerned, he began playing with the Sir John’s Trio in 1952, where he fused blues, r&b, and hillbilly music together: AND THIS WAS BEFORE ELVIS HIT THE SCENE!!! No, he didn’t have a record out at the time, but he did perform rock music prior to him (Elvis) recording in 1955!!

So what, are you saying that just because Chuck Berry didn’t have a record out at the time, and the fact that Elvis did, that this somehow make Elvis the “king” of rock and roll music, as well as the originator?? Man, is this is what you’re really telling me!! It’s like me saying that the “Sugarhill Gang” were the first rappers, and that they created rap music, just because they dropped the first rap record in 1979!!!!

No bitch, you can’t be that stupid can you!! Then again, I can’t forget the fact that you are DUMB DEVIL!!!! LOL!!!

NEXT!!!

I said:

This BS of his, is what compelled me to go back into history and pull up historical black musical luminaries, in order to prove that not all black music during the 30’s, 40’s and early 50’s, that was considered blues, or race records, were the slow bluesy kind that he tried to attach onto Little Richard’s early recordings!)

Whereas he said:

*** i never said that at all,its not the tempo idiot,

My response:

No, but you implied it bitch, and if you didn’t mean to do so, THEN COMMUNICATE MORE CLEARLY, YOU MUTE BASTARD!!

-its the vocal phrasing,the guitar playing,the amplified bass drum,the slapping bass fiddle,the instrumentation,the whole feel of the song,including the use of echo on elvis voice,which became a trademark of sun records/early rock and roll, and which was inspired by an old hank williams song.its not the time they are playing in.

*The more and more you write, the more the true “idiot” is being exposed, and the finger’s not pointing at me. You see, your precious “vocal phrasing, the guitar playing, the amplified bass drum, the slapping bass fiddle, the instrumentation,” as well as what you call “the whole feel of the song,” which includes “the use of echo on elvis voice,” WASN’T THE AURAL TRADEMARK THAT LABELED THE MUSIC BLACK R&B MUSICIANS WERE PLAYING, DURING THE LATE 40’S AND 50’S, AS ROCK MUSIC FOOL!!!!!!! Black musicians at Sun, even before Elvis graced its doors, used that echo, amplified basses, and electric guitars, as well as sounds that were associated with what was labeled as Rock music, fool!!

- have you ever listened to country music from the 40s or 50s(pre rock)?

*Most definitely…

-well thats a stupid question,

*Only the person asking the question…

-seeing as how you havent listened to a single r&b record that you cut and pasted.

*What it is, is that you want to BELIEVE that I never heard any of the music that I posted up, only to secure in your mind, the safety net, of dwelling in the land of make believe, with the intentional notion that I don’t know what I’m talking about, with the hopes of leading others into a way that you truly don’t believe deep down yourself, but rather want to believe.

Just like white racist devils! Always thinking that they know someone, or why someone operates the way they do!

Bad bitch, bad bitch! LOL!!!

Muthafucka, I’m more eclectic than your dumbass will ever be, or can imagine!

-but if you ever do,you may realize that some of that has a rock feel too,the way some r&b does.

*The only reason why that is, is because many country and western musicians, like Hank Williams, and Jimmie Rodgers, to name a few, infused black gospel music, and blues, into their musical style, to where I don’t blame their music for having that bluesy, r&b sound to it!

-and country music was a big influence on chuck berrys playing style,not just with that one song,

*(Yawn) I know this, I’ve admitted as much earlier…

-and it is important,

*Oh really…

-because the fact that these songs crossed over on the charts proves that they were on to something revolutionary.none of these old songs were reffereed to as rock and roll either dude

*None of those country songs, were referred to as rock music, BECAUSE AT THE TIME, AND STILL NOW, COUNTRY MUSIC ISN’T, AND NEVER WAS WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL, DESPITE THEIR BLUES AND BLACK GOSPEL INFLUENCES!!! What the fuck are you talking about????

As I said before, THE MUSIC THAT WAS PLAYED BY BLACK R&B MUSICIANS, DURING THE LATE 40’S, AND EARLY 50’S, IS THE MUSIC THAT WAS LABELED AS ROCK AND ROLL, FOOL!! How many times do I have to repeat myself, dumb devil bastard???!! LOL!!!

Just because your precious “king” comes on the scene, with his black r&b, saturated style, with a little bit of country to boot, and come out with his music, doesn’t mean that you can compare his rendition of “Jailhouse Rock,” “Mystery Train,” “Jailhouse Rock,” and other songs with country music! Not that you are, but I will say that those songs, the ones I’ve just mentioned, are true rock and roll songs, because of the heavy r&b, dominated flavor, whereas the rest of that country shit wasn’t.

[TheReal]

Continued from the post before this one:

It took Chuck Berry and Elvis to bring that black flavor onto that music scene-but they weren’t the first rock musicians-because no matter how much country and western yahoo musicians, incorporated blues into their music (hell, even Hank Williams was instructed by a black blues musician Teetot; and Jimmie Rodgers even recorded with black musicians) THAT SHIT WAS STILL COUNTRY MUSIC!!!! HEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAWWW!!! LOL!!

I bet you like saying that shit do you?

NEXT!!!!!

He said:

-the fact that the term "rock and roll"had been around for awhile,is meaningless.

Whereas I said:

*Again, the fact that you would say that it’s meaningless, only shows your latently racist pattern of diminishing anything that black folks originate, when it’s convenient!

Whereas he said:

-its not unusual for certain terms to be used at different times for different sounds,for example punk rock means the music that came out of new york and london in the mid 70s,but in fact the term had first been used in the mid to late 60s,to describe garage rock bands like ? and the mysterians,the standells,etc,etc.

Whereas my response was:

*That may be the case, but seeing as how the word “Rock and Roll”, was indeed utilized by black folks during the 30’s and 40’s, on up until the 50’s, as a way to suggest the sexual act, and the fact that Alan Freed gave the music he listened to, and played (black music, by the way), that title, is similar to me calling country music “white” music! Not because the word “white” originated with me, or the fact that the music is titled “white” music, rather because the music itself is associated with a particular type of people!! Similar with Freed! He didn’t use the term “black” music, or “black and Negro”, to describe this music, but he did use a black idiom (Rock and Roll), in order to identify where the cultural ethos of the music he was playing, derived from-WHICH WAS BLACK FOLKS!!

***first of all,alan freed probaly coined the phrase on his own,your saying that blacks used that phrase because some book says so, -not because you have any personal knowledge of that.and my point is very well made,

My response:

Look bitch, you are one confused, schizoid devil!! Here you are berating me, because I did indeed glean this information from a book-and if I’m not mistaken, it was from a white author- as well as from various documentaries, yet you will turn around within the same breath, and criticize me, for what you do, AND UTILIZE VARIOUS WEBSITES FOR INFORMATION!!! Hell muthafucka! How else am I to glean and retrieve information fool, if not for books, documentaries, periodicals, the internet???

You see devil, I’m on to your game, it’s like you can’t really deal with my information adequately, so what you do is stoop to foolish, silly, asinine and fatuous, dunceheaded tactics, by criticizing where and how I obtain much of my information, as if your ass is above picking up books, or going to different websites, reading newspapers, etc.

Oh snap! I forgot, your Mr. Badass whiteman! You don’t need books and other sources of information-that shit just floats in your mind! Or better yet, damn I should’ve thought of it, YOU’RE GOD, THEREFORE YOU KNOW EVERY FUCKIN’ THING, RIGHT????

Listen bitch, you’re damn straight I’ve read that information from a book and other sources, and am damn proud of it!! At least I claim to be human, whereas your dumbass is trying to set yourself up as some type of god! Man, you must be the devil, seeing as how you have a sincere god complex, and a person who wants to be right, even when he knows he’s wrong!

Besides, I remember the phraseology, and wording of “rock” and “roll” being used at various times throughout my life, amongs black folks, whether in real life, or on contemporary r&b songs. Any black person, or someone that’s hip to black music, can vouch for what I’ve said.

Oh and one more thing, you like to bandy the fact that I wasn’t around, when the word was first originally brought into the vocabulary, but guess what devil? NEITHER WERE YOU AROUND EITHER, making my fact, which is rooted in documented evidence, outshine any day, your wishful conjectures, seeing as how your devil ass wasn’t around, but is retrieving your BS from thin air, because of a eurocentric agenda you possess!

- because terms are used and revived at different times to mean different things,

*AND??? What’s your point??? No one’s disputing that, but I do know, based on my research (YEAH FOOL, APART OF IT WAS FROM BOOKS, SO IS THAT A CRIME; AT LEAST MY MAIN GOAL ISN’T TO DECEIVE, BUT TO BE TRUTHFUL), that the term “rock” and “roll,” were terms used by black folks, to denote sexual activity!

-just b/c alan freed used the term to avoid problems with the police,to promote some local r&b shows,

*So what, that's irrelevant!

-should not disparage or take away from what elvis accomplished a little later,

*I NEVER CLAIMED IT WOULD, CRYBABY BITCH!!!

-just like the fact that 60s garage bands were called punK,doesnt mean that the punk movement of the mid 70s is any less legitimate or original.their are many,many examples of this,another example,techno today means electronic music in general,whereas in the late 80s it referred to black electronic artists from detroit,whereas in the early 80s,it meant bands like depeche mode,yaz,new order etc,etc.if you had any understanding or knowledge of music history,you would know that.

*Look crybaby devil bitch, who’s mad because I don’t think of Elvis as being all that, I ALREADY KNOW, AND BESIDES, ALL THIS FUZZY INFORMATION HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOUR PRECIOUS “king” ELVIS THE PELVIS, AND YOUR WHITE FOLKS, DIDN’T CREATE ROCK AND ROLL, BECAUSE THE MUSIC WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN IT WAS JUST BLACK MUSICIANS PLAYING IT, AND THAT’S A FACT FOOL!

The rest of what you’re saying is just BS!!!

NEXT!

He said:

-and its debateable as to who came up with term rock and roll,some say its from blacks,others credit alan freed,

Whereas my response was:

*I’ve already explained to you where the term came from, in my previous post, as well as in this one, and how it originally got into the mouth of ALAN FREED!!!!!! Man are you so bound and deceived by your latent racist psyche, to where you refuse to see the truth once it’s put in front of you!!! Not only that, THERE WERE PLENTY OF SONGS, PERFORMED BY BLACK PERFORMERS, PRIOR TO FREED USING THAT TERM, THAT CONTAINED THE WORD “ROCK” AND “ROLL”!!!! Hell, even blues musicians from the 30’s used this term, and your ignorance of this matter, truly astounds me, for like a fool, you speak on what you don’t know, or intentionally don’t want to know!

***oh yeah,well name me some songs that YOU HAVE HEARD that use that phrase from the 30s,

My response:

In the Robert Johnson song, “Steady Rollin’ Man” and “Travelling Riverside Blues;” Charlie Patton’s song “Shake it and Break it;” Blind Lemon Jefferson’s “The Crawling Baby Blues;” amongst other songs from those days, that utilized the words “rock” or “roll” in them, to denote,and connote, sexual activity!!!!

What devil? YOU THOUGHT I COULDN’T COME UP WITH ANYTHING FROM THE 30’S???? Well as I told you before, I will tell you again, and that is: BITCH, YOU THOUGHT WRONG!!!! LOL!! Now you do some research dumb funky devil, instead of me teaching your dumbass, which is exactly what it’s turning out to be, in all honesty!!!

-show me where alan freed admits to borowing that phrase,dont cut and paste shit,prove what you mean.

*Listen muthafucka, and listen carefully: YOU DON’T DICTATE THE BOUNDARIES OF WHERE I CAN RETRIEVE MY INFORMATION FROM, NOR ARE YOU GOING TO INTIMIDATE ME INTO NOT USING WEBSITES, BOOKS, OR OTHER SOURCES, THAT YOU ARE PRETENDING TO ABOVE USING!!! Again, you’re just attempting to invoke a jedi-mindfuck on those who are listening, in order to sway others from the truthfulness of my information, by focusing in on frivolous concerns. And as far as Freed specifically admitting that the word “Rock and Roll,” came from black folks, well-it would be a moot point, because at the time he coined the phrase, IT WAS IN COMMON USAGE, therefore it would’ve been redundant, addle-brained stepchild, dumbass devil…

Here’s a good site to check out, concerning this information.

“Leo Mintz, a local record store owner, saw an increasing number of white teenagers buying rhythm and blues records at his store. Based on these observations Mintz suggested to Freed that he should begin playing these records. On July 11, 1951, calling himself "Moondog," Freed went on the air and became among the first to program rhythm and blues for a white teenage audience. Other small stations followed eventually forcing the larger stations to join in.”
“Due to the prejudices of the times Freed began calling the rhythm and blues records he played Rock "n" Roll. What is ironic that term Freed was using to make rhythm and blues more acceptable to a white audience, was slang for sex in the black community.”
http://www.history-of-rock.com/freed.htm
-i mean,maybe he didnt,maybe he did,

*He did fool!

-maybe it was white sailors in the 30s,like i said,

*I wonder where you got this information from: A BOOK!!!!!!!!! Or are you going to tell me that you were living around during the time that these white sailors existed? Do you see how a hypocritical piece of shit this devil is?

-its unimportant,

*THEN WHY IN THE FUCK ARE YOU MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT, SCUM SLUG CRAWLING MUTHAFUCKA???!!! Is it because you hate the fact that the word and music that you, and your folks like, is derived from black slang????

-in music,as ive shown,its not unusual for name to be used to describe different music at different times.

*Devil, you haven’t shown much else, nor have you done a good job, on what you claim you have shown…

NEXT!

He said:

-others say it was a phrase popular with white sailors in the thirties,

Whereas my response was:

*Others like who FOOL?!!!!!

*** ive read that in book,that was a history of tattooing in america,ive heard it elsewhere too,i dont know if its true,anymore then you do about blacks making up the phrase,since you werent around back then,and your getting your info from other sources.

My response:

Listen here, whited sepulcher, dissembling, four-flusher bitch, IT WAS YOU WHO IS OBVIOUSLY MAKING A BIG DEAL OF, BY EITHER IMPLYING, OR OUTRIGHT CHALLENGING, AND QUESTIONING WHY I KNOW, WHAT I KNOW, AND THE SOURCE OF MY TRUTHS, AS OPPOSED TO DEALING WITH THE TRUTHS THAT I PUT FORTH!!!

Man you’re a hypocrite on this one!

NEXT!!!

He said:

-thats not really important,

Whereas my response was:

*I know, because it’s BS! As I said before, in my previous post, as well as the information above this one, THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS A FIGURE OF SPEECH USED BY BLACK FOLKS, TO DENOTE THE SEX ACT!!!!!!! PERIOD!!

Whereas, he can only come back with:

***no its not BS,if you get your info from somehwere else besides "muhamad speaks"youd see what a difference of opinion there is about that phrase.

My response:

First of all DEVIL, I don’t even read the Muhammad Speaks, nor am I, nor ever was, A MUSLIM, OR A PERSON AFFILIATED WITH THE NATION OF ISLAM!!!! Furthermore, the information that I’m putting out concerning the word “Rock and Roll,” has nothing to do with Muhammad speaks DUMB DEVIL!!

Folks in the NOI, aren’t the only ones that are hip to who you are DEVIL!!! LOL!

NEXT!

-i mean where do you suppose the word "blues" comes from??some west african dialect??its an english word,does mean that whites can claim blues for themselves??.

Whereas my response was:

Yeah, but the difference is, black folks living in this country had no choice but to speak English, because of their original language being stripped from them, that consequently only left them with English and this system’s subsequent, plethora of words, whereby to express themselves, whether they were feeling happy, or melancholy!! So the term “blues”, or “blue”, besides being a color, was an expression that had connotations of depression and woe.

Much of the state of black America, during the origins of this music, one can say, not only had connotations, but denotations of depression of woe, therefore much of the music, was somber, brooding, and morose, in its’ delivery, as well as the artists performing such music: THUS THE TERM BLUES!

Whereas he said:

***what the fu-- are you on??

My response:

I don’t know about you devil, but I know that I’m high on life! LOL!

-what i meant was ,

*Oh, so now you have to regroup, because your other half “jimmy the loon” personality, just came out of you, schizoid?

-just because blacks ,accoding to you,coined the phrase "rock and roll"

*NO BITCH, IT’S NOT JUST ACCORDING TO ME, BUT ACCORDING TO THE HISTORICAL RECORD FOOL!!

-it doesnt give them any legitimate claim to that music,based solely on that phrase,

*I NEVER CLAIMED IT DID, PARANOID DEVIL!!! But what I am saying, is that black folks birthed this music into fruition, and that the label attached to it (Rock and Roll), was a black term, linking to sexual activity, you dumb, piece of hog shit!

Man, the more you write, the more you’re being revealed to be a true imbecilic bastard!!

-then it would give some white person of british ancestry to claim blues music as his own based on the the europaen word blues,which was used to mean sadness wayyyyyyyyyyyy back before blues music existed.

*Look muthafucka, WHY DO YOU THINK I MADE THIS STATEMENT:

“Yeah, but the difference is, black folks living in this country had no choice but to speak English, because of their original language being stripped from them, that consequently only left them with English and this system’s subsequent, plethora of words, whereby to express themselves, whether they were feeling happy, or melancholy!! So the term “blues”, or “blue”, besides being a color, was an expression that had connotations of depression and woe.

Much of the state of black America, during the origins of this music, one can say, not only had connotations, but denotations of depression of woe, therefore much of the music, was somber, brooding, and morose, in its’ delivery, as well as the artists performing such music: THUS THE TERM BLUES!”

You, as well as anyone else reading this, should understand the logic of where I’m coming from, in regards to the word “blues”, and secondly, going back to what was said before-I NEVER CLAIMED THAT OTHER FOLKS DON’T HAVE A RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN ROCK AND ROLL, OR THAT JUST BLACK FOLKS HAVE A LEGITIMATE CLAIM BECAUSE OF IT; JUST BECAUSE THE TERM ORIGINATED WITH BLACK FOLKS

Again man, I really do believe you’re losing it…

NEXT!!!!

He said:

-the important thing is the music as we know was born on july 5th 1954.courtesy of the king:)

Whereas my response was:

*BS, because I’ve already proven to you, that the music that was eventually known as rock and roll, especially during the early years of the 1950’s, had its’ origins in black musical stylings, from black performers, prior to Elvis Presley, so this “drag queen” Elvis the pelvis, didn’t originate and give birth to a damn thing, in regards to rock and roll!

He, along with other white performers of his day, only commercialized, and made mainstream, black music of the day to white america! Of course they added their own cultural ethos, just like what Eminem does in rap music, but no one will say that Eminem has created a new genre of music, neither should anyone say the same with Elvis, despite the cultural baggage he brought to the table, BECAUSE HE DIDN’T! He brought his own unique style, from within a style of music that already existed, similar to Little Richard, or Bo Diddley bringing their own style to the table-BUT IT’S ALL CALLED ROCK AND ROLL!!

Whereas he said:

***nope,elvis did the same as the blacks who created blues and jazz did,

My response:

No he didn’t IDIOT piece of shit, SEEING AS HOW ELVIS PRESLEY DIDN’T ORIGINATE THIS MUSIC, rather he just brought a somewhat different flavor, if anything, just like Eminem does in rap music! How so? Because as I’ve been saying previously-BLACK R&B MUSIC WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, FIRST BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY EVEN HIT THE SCENE, AND YOU KNOW THIS EUROCENTRIC SLIME!

-how do you suppose music evolves, you idiot??

*I know how music evolves DEVIL, and have explained my position on this IDIOT! But just because Rock music has evolved-DOESN’T MEAN THAT ELVIS PRESLEY CREATED ROCK AND ROLL!! And it definitely doesn’t mean that he was the “king!”

-how do you think art in general advances??somebody wakes up in the middle of the night,with a brand new form of music running through their head??hells no!!,almost all music,is basically different styles of music being brought together
to create new genres.this includes ALL forms of american black music.

*I already know this devil, so what’s your point-IT STILL DOESN’T SEGUE INTO ELVIS ORIGINATING THE ART FORM OF ROCK AND ROLL!! If you’re going all through this, just to prove that to me, THEN YOU ARE SUPREMELY WASTING YOUR TIME!

-you are just to racist to give him credit,it doesnt matter because your opinion is shared by a very small minority,

*No devil, I give him credit for WHAT HE DID, whereas glossy eyed eurocentric devils like you, want to coronate that muthafucka with some royalty! If anything the MAJORITY of you are racists eurocentric devils, because the “very small minority” as well as the MAJORITY OF YOU EUROCENTRIC DEVILS know, THAT ROCK MUSIC WAS CALL ROCK AND ROLL, WAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS EVEN ENTERED SUN STUDIOS, AND THAT BLACK PEOPLE DIDN’T HAVE TO WAIT ON ELVIS, JUST TO CREATE ROCK AND ROLL!

-eminem is an example of someone doing black music,while adding nothing new to it.

*Yeah, but the muthafucka adds his own style, to where folks are eating that shit up-JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH ELVIS, WHO WAS PERFORMING BLACK MUSIC!

NEXT!!

I said:

Was he an innovator in some regards? YES!!!

Whereas he said:

***please explain to me what he did,in your eyes,that made him an innovator.im dying to hera this,LOL.

*He successfully performed black music, by infusing a little country and western, and presented a product to white America that made those fools go crazy, and call him the “king”, when he wasn’t the king of shit!

NEXT!!!

I said:

Was he the founder, or originator? HELL NO!!!! Artists like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley of the 1950’s, didn’t need to borrow their musical stylings from Elvis Presley, AND DIDN’T!!!

Whereas he said:

***again,chuck berry added country to his r&b sound/style,just like elvis added r&b to his country thing,and bo diddley??that guy didnt put out his first record till after elvis did,just like little richard,chuck berry,you cant deny that,dude,so why are you even debating this??

My response:

Read my above information on this topic! It would be redundant of me, to regurgitate my previous information! But speaking of Bo Diddley, are you inferring that if it weren’t for Elvis Presley, THAT BO DIDLEY WOULDN’T HAVE COME OUT WITH THE STYLE OF MUSIC HE PLAYED?

NEXT!!

I said:

These musicians, despite when they first recorded, followed in the same tradition of black musicians that preceded them, and your precious “king” Elvis!!! Black musicians like Jackie Brentsen’s “Rockett 88”, which came out in 1951; Fats Domino’s, “The Fat Man”, even came out before Jackie’s song, in 1950; again, Wynonie Harris’s song “Good Rockin Tonight”, came out before Fats song, in 1948; and Freddie Shack’s song “House of Blue Lights”, came out before Wynonie’s song, in 1946; and when it comes to the first electric guitar, rock sound recording, that was a national hit, you then have to mention Arthur Smith, who came out with the song “Guitar Boogie;” and also, you can throw in there Lloyd Price’s “Lawdy Miss Clawdy,” which came out in 1953!!!!! ALL OF THESE MUSICIANS PLAYED THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT PRODUCED THAT ROCK SOUND OF THE 1950'S!!!!! Hell-IT WAS THAT ROCK SOUND, THEREFORE ROCK AND ROLL!!!

Whereas he said:

***no it wasnt,and unlike you, ive heard almost all these songs you mentioned(with some exceptions),and none of them are rock and roll,they are either hard r&b,or slow bluesy ballads,or boogie woogie,but not rock and roll,but an influence on rock??absolutely.

My response:

BS DEVIL!!! Many of those songs, especially the ones that were recorded in the late 40’s and 50’s, ARE WHAT ROCK AND ROLL SONGS CAME TO BE KNOWN AS, BECAUSE WHEN THE LABEL ROCK AND ROLL WAS INITIALLY USED, IT WAS REFERRING TO THOSE TYPE OF SONGS!! Those songs are the original, and some of the most primitive rock and roll songs, put out there…

NEXT!

I said:

ALL OF THESE MUSICIANS WERE BLACK, AND THEY PRECEDED ELVIS PRESLEY, CARL PERKINS, JERRY LEE LEWIS, AND OTHER WHITE ROCK LUMINARIES FROM THE 50’S, PLAYING AND PERFORMING THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT WAS EVENTUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH BILL HALEY, ELVIS PRESLEY, CARL PERKINGS, JERRY LEE LEWIS, AND OTHERS!!!

***again you show your ignorance,none of these performers you mentioned were putting any elements of c&w or pop in their music,so they werent rock and roll,but sure their are similarities,as i said r&b was an influence,thats no surprise.

My response:

No bitch, you are showing your ignorance, because to make a song a Rock and Roll song, it doesn’t take country and western influence, but like Little Richard said:

“"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll."

ENOUGH SAID!

NEXT!

I said:

There were no white musicians prior to these, that were performing this type of up tempo, fast paced type of soulful music, that eventually became known as “Rock and Roll”, named so by a white dj (Alan Freed) who played almost exclusively black music, and in a fit of inspiration, derived from the music he played, as well as the people who played it- THE PHRASE “ROCK AND ROLL”, WHICH WAS A TERM THAT WAS USED AMONGST BLACK FOLKS AT THE TIME!!! Oh hell no!!!!! That’s why; AGAIN, Sam Philips was looking for a man with the feeling and sound of the black man, because by and large, at the time, WHITE MUSIC HAD NO HEART AND ENERGY!!!!! LOL!!!

Whereas he said:

***again,you need to listen to some old country music,some of that stuff was uptempo too

*I have, AND IT DOESN’T COMPARE!!!!

- and secondly
refere to what i said about names being used at different times,something you see over and over again in music,sam philips said in an interview that he didnt remember actually saying that.

*He probably didn’t, but he did say:

"I knew we had to get young white people involved or it wasn't going to succeed," Phillips adds. "Jazz could have reached the young people as something they could have called their own. But it was taken and smothered by adults. The teenage years are the toughest years of your life. Take the child who has so much problem mixing and mingling with other people. Music can be the greatest educator in the world for helping such people.
"Then Elvis walked in the door, and I knew this was exactly what I was looking for. Elvis cut a ballad, which was just excellent. I can tell you, both Elvis and Roy Orbison could tear a ballad to pieces. But I said to myself, 'You can't do that, Sam.' If I had released a ballad I don't think you would have heard of Elvis Presley. "I'm a hell of a taskmaster," Phillips says with a laugh. "But there's times that you use that and there's times that you use something else."

"I worked in the fields when I was this high," Phillips answers, measuring his height as a toddler. "A day didn't go by when I didn't hear black folks singing in the cotton fields. Did I feel sorry for them? In a way I did. But they could do things I couldn't do. They could outpick me. They could sing on pitch. That made a big impression on me.
"You see, we've forgotten how much they have sacrificed to please the white man," Phillips says. "For years white people have denied what this old black man with four strings on his guitar could do, just saying, 'OK, let's hear this nigger play.' A black man playing for white folks was 'fun,' but that was all.
"The black man gave up so many things that were important to him just to survive and to please. But think about the complexity, yet simplicity of music we have gained from hard times--from the sky, the wind, and the earth. If you don't have a foundation, you don't know what the hell I'm talking about."

http://www.worldandi.com/public/2001/may/samphil.html

With that, again, the time has come for me depart, and depart quickly. Unlike this devil, I don't have time to spare! And to the rest of his information, I may, or may not address it, but I will definitely respond to any new post that he puts up accordingly.

Not only that, I’ve already proven who has the mastery of the information, and as anyone can objectively see, every issue that he brought up, I addressed, and put down damn well!

Having said that, let me deal with his last statement wherein I first said:

-Never fear, I’LL BE BACK!!! Tomorrow, for part 2 of this discussion.
Peace

Whereas he replied:

***what this moron means is that he has to go to his local library to check out more books ,and to look for more sites to cut and paste from,so he can try to challenge what i said,LOL

My response:

*As I said before devil, I’m not above reading books, and if needs be checking my “local library,” in order to rebut the false information your eurocentric devil ass puts up! What matters, is that I do challenge your information, and am slamming you repeatedly. Don’t let the fact that I’m caught up with outside interests deceive you, and give you delusions of grandeur, into thinking that you’ve won anything, just because time constraints doesn’t allow me to finish reading the rest of your BS, for you truly haven't won A DAMN THING!

I felt that I adequately and cogently dealt with your BS thoroughly, to where all you can do, in the face of historical evidence, is to play jedi mindfucks, pretending as if you’re appealing to other folk’s logic!!

So make all the library and website jokes you want to devil (even though I didn’t visit any library), at least one can say that I’m a truth seeker, instead of someone who’s a BS preacher! LOL!

-.hopefully you wont have to reedit your post 7 times like last time,

*Again devil, your cockiness amazes me! Just because I edit my post 7 times, isn’t to my disgrace, rather it’s a testament to my character, seeing as how I want the information that I put out there, TO BE TRUTHFUL, HONEST, AND ON POINT, UNLIKE YOU!!

-LOL.i also responded last night to your ridiculous black inventors reply,but the "invalid session"thing shot me down,oh well,tommorow ill repost it.

*Yeah, yeah, right bitch…

[shadoworder]

[quote="TheReal"]My response to shadoworder:

I said:

dumb devil, despite the fact that Little Richard began playing up tempo r&b when he signed to Specialty (actually he was performing this way [up tempo and fast paced] live, in clubs, before he got with Specialty Records), and despite the fact that Elvis was recording a year before Little Richard reached Specialty, with his new up tempo style, DOESN’T MEAN THAT LITTLE RICHARD GOT HIS STYLE, NOR ANY OTHER SUBSEQUENT BLACK PERFORMER-FROM ELVIS!!!

***richards didnt develp his style or sound till he got to specialty,and hooked up with bumps blackwell.and it doesnt matter what tempo he was playing,becuase his records flopped,no one heard them,and thus they could not have had any discernabble influence on elvis,not to mention he was playing blues, on those failed singles,not the r&b that was an influence on elvis




Look ignorant bastard, no matter how you try and spin your shit, it will still not take away from what you inferred, in regards to the sound sthat Little Richard developed later at Specialty records, as opposed to what Elvis Presley had produced while at Sun records. When I stated that Little Richard first recorded his music prior to Elvis Presley, ergo, he was in the Rock game prior to Elvis, you stated, “little richard did record some singles for rca in 1951,after he won a talent contest,but the songs were slow bluesy numbers that flopped,and that had nothing in common with the sound that we associate with little richard,a sound(and look) that he developed when he joined the speciality record label in 1955.” What sound were you referring to DUMBASS????

***the hard r&b sound that was little richards trademark,which was different from the country/R&b fusion played by elvis,chuck berry,bill haley,carl perkins,jerry lee lewis etc,etc,thats the sound i was reffering to.

From the context of what you were saying, Little Richard didn’t truly come out with music, that sounded even remotely like that of what is considered Rock and Roll

***no,i said the music ,or rather the sound that he made famous,a sound that was different from other rockers,b/c it didnt have any discernible c&w leanings,but was instead r&b played harder and faster then the r&b that came before.little richards style of rock and roll differed from elvis and jerry lees,he had his own specific sound,but it was hard enough and over the top enough,that it was defined or put in the new genre known as rock and roll,rather then considered r&b.same thing goes for bo diddley,who was unique and radical enough sounding,that he was considerd rock and roll,and not R&B.that does not take away AT ALL from the fact that rock and roll was the sound created by elvis that fused country and r&b.


Furthermore, you buttressed this position with the notion that just because Elvis recorded prior to Little Richard, and supposedly created the Rock and Roll Sound while at Sun Records first, that it somehow bestows upon Elvis not only the title of “king” of Rock and Roll, but THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS ARTFORM!!! Why? Because again, according to you, LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS PRIOR TO ELVIS’S ADVENT AT SUN, WEREN’T REALLY ROCK RECORDS BUT “slow bluesy numbers”, WHICH IS BS!!!!

***its BS?????then why did you say earlier"These songs, just like Little Richard’s earlier recordings before he got with Specialty records (1951-1954), which predated Elvis Presley’s ascension into the recording industry, were very slow paced songs"??



That’s why I stated that Little Richard, nor any other black performer, got their style of music, and performance, from Elvis Presley! WHY? Because the style that Little Richard developed at Specialty records, WAS DEVELOPED PRIOR TO HIM, BY OTHER BLACK MUSICIANS, WAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY HAD HIT THE SCENE, AND THAT LITTLE RICHARD WAS FOLLOWING IN THE SAME TRADITION OF THOSE BLACK MUSICIANS, WHEREAS ELVIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE ORIGINATION OF ANY OF IT!!!!


***little richard,didnt copy elvis,but everybody else sure did,and little richard didnt copy his style from other black R&B either.tell me
who was wearing makeup,and puffed up hair like him,and acting all effiminate like that??his sound was different from blacks before him
which is why he was defined as a rock and roll artist,and not an r&b artist.


-and little richard was NOT playing in an uptempo style when he did those first recordings,even his own biography page in the r&r hall of fame says this
http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=179

Contrary to what you would like to think devil, I HAVE HEARD OF LITTLE RICHARDS EARLIER RECORDINGS, PRIOR TO SPECIALTY, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE SONG “Little Richard’s Boogie,” a fast paced, up tempo r&b/rock song, that was recorded prior to Elvis Presley’s advent into the music industry. A song that was eventually his signature style, and beyond, when he finally landed at Specialty records.

***ive never heard the song,and neither have you,it has been described as faster then the first records he did,which flopped,but they were not anywhere as wild as the stuff he released on specialty,and it did not come out in 1953,it came out in 1955
http://www.history-of-rock.com/richard.htm1955



Furthermore, seeing as how you’re going to that website of yours (and this fool claims that I’m a copy and paste king, which shows how much of a hypocrite he is, because I point out information he’s posted up, whereby he extracted whole texts from different websites; but I’ll get to that later),

***when did i say that i never cut and paste??i do,and so does everyone else,the difference is that you do that ALL THE TIME,and then in a pathetic attempt to make yourself look smarter then you are,youll post it,in a manner that will create the illusion that you wrote every word,a perfect example,and i know its a different thread,but this is such a blatant example,when writing about granville t woods,you responded to my argument that othet men beat him to the railway telegraph idea ,by responding"thats true but the difference between smith and woods patent is..."and you then went off on a 3 paragraph rant where you descrbe in detail how granville wood patent actually worked,the problem is that you cut and paste the ENTIRE thing from a website devoted to woods,but you didnt mention that,you didnt put quotations mark,you wrote it down like it was one continous monologue,so that way people reading that post would be like DAMN!!!THE REAL IS ONE BAD MOTHAFUCKA,when you know damn well that you dont know shit about that off the top of your head.if we debated live,and i challenged you to explain right then and there,woods railway telegraph you wouldnt be able to say a word.its that kind of intellectual posing,which pisses me off.



in his own words stated that Rock and Roll is essentially a mixture of “boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed.” As a matter of fact, his whole quote was concerning rock and roll is, and was (especially the 1950’s variety): “"I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll." WHERE DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT COUNTRY AND WESTERN, DEVIL??? NO WHERE!!!! Why? BECAUSE COUNTRY AND WESTERN HADN’T A THING TO DO WITH THE CREATION OF ROCK AND ROLL!!!!! That fusion of country of western eventually occurred when white folks jumped on board, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOUR PEOPLE, OR ELVIS, CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, AND IT DAMN SURE DOESN’T MEAN THAT ROCK AND ROLL BEGAN WITH WHITE FOLKS, OR ELVIS IN PARTICULAR!!!!!!!!

***asking little richard what is rock and roll,or who started it,is like asking saddaam hussein what he thinks of george bush,little richard is an angry and embittered has-been,who has always been jealous of,not only the fact that elvis beat him to the punch recordwise,but that elvis was popular up until his death in 77,wheras after the 50s,no one in the states gave a shit about little richard,his career never ever recovered from his conversion to born again christainity at the end of the 50s.his comment about rock being boogie woogie and r&b is not only a disrespectful slap in the face to
elvis and the many who came after him in the 50s,but also agaisnt chuck berry,whose sound was equally country influenced,and who also became famous before little richard.ive seen interviews with little richard where he claims that EVERYONE has ripped off his style ,in one form or another,i remember in the 80s he was saying that all those gender bender artists(boy george for example)were stealing his style,appantly little richard forgot that androgyny dates back to the roman empire,as well as the fact that a white wrestler named gorgeous george influenced little richards style
http://www.wrestlingmuseum.com/pages/bi ... gebio.html
he also said that jimi hendrix,who was a sideman of his,got his unique style by trying to imitate little richards voice,LOL.anyway ive seen interviews with carl perkins,or bill haley,where they describe rock and roll as a country/r&b fusion,the proof is that everyone who followed elvis,was influenced by him,and used the country.r&b style of his early records on sun,this would include jerry lee lewis,roy orbison,carl perkins,bill haley,buddy holly,gene vincent,eddie cochran,the everly brothers,johnny burnette and his rock and roll trio,link wray,charlie feathers and many many others,including obscure rockabilly artists,whose rare 45s are treated like holy relics by obsessive collectors,artists like sonny burgess,jackie cochran,mac curtis and others,all white southereners
all playing ,more or less in the same style,with the same look,dont you think that qualifies as seperate musical genre??as for influencing black performers,well you see that wasnt really possible,because,there were no black rockers who came after elvis,just richards,berry,diddley and thats it
.


As I said before, so say I now again, white folks were grafted into a musical stream that already existed prior to their advent into the music, bringing their own cultural ethos and flavor, and mixed it with black music, a music (black music) that was coined by Alan Freed as ROCK AND ROLL!!! A word that was inspired from a BLACK song, entitled, “My Baby Rocks me with a Steady Roll!!”


***i could say that the blacks who created jazz and blues grafted onto a white stream,but unlike you i have an understanding of music history,and how new forms develop,so i would never sink to you level of ignorance.whites did the same thing,that blacks did with blues and jazz,they took a form of music alien to their culture,and fused it with a music that was from their culture,thus they took the r&b from the 40s and 50s,a music that was always referred to as r&b,and not rock and roll,and fused it with hillbilly/c&w and gave birth to rock and roll.and elvis was the first,and the fact that his first records were out before lil richards and chuck berry.its irelevant if he "influenced richards or berry,because he influenced EVERYBODY ELSE!!




truth of the matter, despite what this eggo head fart, inverted, belowstairs devil says, THE RECORD STANDS ON THE VERY REAL FACT THAT ELVIS PRESLEY RECORDED “LITTLE RICHARD BOOGIE” IN 1953, AND NOT 1955!!! As a matter of fact, he recorded that song while on the Peacock Label (1953-1954), AND NOT AT SPECIALTY RECORDS, DUMB LYING SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!


***ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh elvis recorded it???HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
i guess someone forgot to "EDIT"his post.anywayz that is wrong it was in 1955
http://www.history-of-rock.com/richard.htm1955
and it doesnt matter because richards music was different from elvis,and thats normal,when you have a brand spanking new musical movement,its not unusual to have some artists whose music is a little different,look at punk rock,you had nyc bands like the ramones,the dictators,heartbreakers,richard hell who played in the three chord thrash style everyone associates with punk,but you also had bands like blondie and suicide who sounded totally different,but who were unique enough to be defined as punk anyway.



Don’t be fooled by this arrogant, smug, cavalier, hammerheaded asshead, and his BS!!! This muthafucka is full of lies, whereby all he can do, when he’s presented with the truth, is spin, and LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE!!!!! Not only that, this muthafucka, when you read further on down the page, will go over hell and high water, and make light of my information, just because much of it comes off of various websites (as if he’s any different), and will claim that I haven’t truly listened to any of the recordings that I’ve put up, but just copied and pasted my whole entire pieces of information (this is something, again, I will deal with, further on down this thread, in this post), because he can’t adequately deal with the truth, so what he does it try to enter into folk’s psyches, by suggesting that just because I may have received much of my information from off of some websites, that it somehow suggests that my information is false, or that I’m a sham individual who doesn’t know what the fu-- I’m talking about!

*** the truth of the matter is that your arguments have no foundations at all,its a hodgepodge of BS.blacks started rock and roll because the music was called rock and roll in the 30s and 40s which it most definitely wasnt,because of alan freed calling his moondog radio show which played black r&b,the moondog rock and roll show,although the only reason he did it was to avoid being booted off the air,or having his shows shut down by the authorities,since everyone associated r&b with black people,(he didnt name it rock and roll because it was some new sound that blacks invented in the early 50s before elvis) and because the term comes frrom the black community(which it doesnt,but more on that later) i mean talk about a WEAK,DESPERATE, ARGUMENT
let me ask you,if rock and roll was the same as R&B,why did it start being called rock and roll in the mid 50s(COINCIDENTLY when elvis and all these white artists i mentioned before,came along)why didnt it remain as r&b???and PLEASE dont try the "white people"excuse,because littel richard and chuck and bo,were black,but they were defined as rock and roll too,on the other hand black artists like ray charles,the platters and sam cooke all had hits in the mid to late 50s,but they were considered r&b,NOT rock and roll,WHY IS THAT??????? its simple because rock and roll was different from r&b,it was a new musical form,pioneered by elvis,and the music of ray charles and those others were not the same as what elvis and carl perkins,and jerry lee lewis and others were playing.PERIOD!!!:)

NEXT
I said:

Here’s why:

In 1953, when Elvis began recording at Sun Records, under the tutelage of Sam Philips (according to him-Sam Phillips-not legend, he was looking for a white man, with that black “feel” and “sound”), the songs he (Elvis) recorded weren’t all up-tempo songs!!! Songs like "My Happiness" (which was recorded first by a black group calling themselves the Inkspots, to which Elvis sung the song almost exactly the way the black lead performer did), “That’s When Your Heartaches Begin,” “Careless Love,” “Casual Love Affair,” and “I’ll Never Stand in Your Way”, weren’t the up tempo songs fused with blues/r&b/country that made Elvis Presley famous! OH HELL NO!!!These songs, just like Little Richard’s earlier recordings before he got with Specialty records (1951-1954), which predated Elvis Presley’s ascension into the recording industry, were very slow paced songs, which were either originally sung, or written-AGAIN-by black male performers and writers!!!

Whereas he said:

but wait a minute,you just said his music was uptempo and

My response:

What the fu-- are you talking about?

-"Hell! At least some of Little Richard’s recordings, prior to getting with Specialty-songs like “Little Richard’s Boogie (1953)-had that up tempo fast paced beat, that was common for typical rock songs of the 50’s,"

*And? Where’s the confusion, or controvery, DUMBASS DEVIL???? Could you please explain???

-you cant even stay on top of your own BS,LOL.

*First of all, the only one’s spewing BS, it’s you, imbecilic bastard, and furthermore, I really do believe that you’ve gone off of the deep end, because you’re now claiming that you’ve tagged me, on something that you yourself can’t fully articulate!!!


***no dude it very simple,the first post you said
"These songs, just like Little Richard’s earlier recordings before he got with Specialty records (1951-1954), which predated Elvis Presley’s ascension into the recording industry, were very slow paced songs"
BUT then you say
"“Little Richard’s Boogie (1953)-had that up tempo fast paced beat, that was common for typical rock songs of that era"
LOL.your even confusing yourself with the way you go in circles over and over.




it may have had a “new rock and roll sound down” and “the new…sound”, in regards to him bringing his own cultural flavor into the mix, insofar as country music and whatnot, BUT HE DIDN’T BRING IN THE ROCK AND ROLL SOUND, BECAUSE THAT SOUND EXISTED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE!!!

Remember and know this (especially those that are reading these words) Alan Freed, the white dj who first coined the phrase “Rock and Roll”, as I said before, coined this phrase during a time when he was primarily, and on many of occasions solely, playing BLACK MUSIC, THAT WAS LABELED AS R&B AT THE TIME!!!!! Simply put, the music he was playing (black r&b music) was being called by him (Alan Freed) ROCK AND ROLL!!! And guess what year he coined the black music he was playing, as Rock and Roll? 1951!!!!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE BILL HALEY AND THE COMETS (supposed father of Rock and Roll), and definitely way before Elvis Presley, again, even walked into Sun records!!!!!

So bitch, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE fu-- YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, IN THAT REGARDS!!! How so? BECAUSE HOW IN THE fu-- CAN ELVIS PRESLEY, LOGICALLY, COME OUT WITH THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD, WHEN BLACK MUSIC WAS ALREADY BEING CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY EVER DECIDED TO RECORD?????? Don’t you folks see the historical, eurocentric, slanted BS, this devil is trying to prop up, by claiming that Elvis Presley created Rock and Roll, whereas much of Elvis Presley’s music, especially his hits, (many of which were written by a black man named Otis Blackwell), and style of performing on stage, WAS TAKEN FROM BLACK FOLKS!!!!


***why does your rant bring to mind that phrase of your s about going through the meadows,and over the sea,etc,etc(it was something like that,lol)first of all,ONE MORE TIME,alan freed named his radio show the moondog rock and roll show,to avoid being hassled by the racist authorities,and so the concerts he was promoting in cleveland wouldnt be shut down.not because it was some new form of music,as for the term being a black term for sex...so if you call some new music a black slang name,that means that blacks can claim it as their own??so i guess if punk rock or heavy metal were words coined by black people in the 1950s,that they couldve claimed punk and metal as their own creation???isnt that ridiculous??if rock and roll was used to describe a MUSICAL SOUND in the 30s,40s,going into the 50s,and NOT A SEX ACT,you might have a point,BUT IT WASNT ,it was called R&B,not rock and roll,just b/c one dj,who was unknown outside of cleveland,named HIS RADIO SHOW that IN 1952,that means you can say THAT IT EXISTED SINCE THE 30S???GIVE ME A BREAK,LOL.it was called r&b,and when elvis mixed it with whiteboy country,it mutated into rock and roll,just like blacks in the 19th century took scottish.irish folk songs,fused it with slave songs and field hollers,and you then had blues

It’s like eurocentric devils claiming that Christopher Columbus discovered America, when this landmass was already inhabited!!

***absolutely columbus did,he discovered this country,whites settled the land,and amde this a mighty nation,if you dont like it,give all your money
and properties to the native american tribe of your choice,and move back to africa.

What arrogance, to think that something hasn’t been created or discovered, until white muthafuckas give it their imprimatur!!!

***in the case of america,its not arrogance,its the truth

And this is exactly what you’re doing devil, with the origins of rock and roll, and subsequently claiming that Elvis Presley was the first rock and roller, and “king”!!

***thatis a moronic analogy,LOL.

What it is, is that ELVIS PRESLEY IS WHITE FOLKS “king”, AND THE FIRST WHITE MAN TO LEAD YOUR PEOPLE ACROSS THE DRY DESERT OF YOUR OWN STALE MUSIC AT THE TIME, INTO A LAND OF MUSIC, WITH HEART AND SOUL!!!!

***"stale music"??whites had no "heart and soul"??lets compare the pure white music of my ancestors,the classical music of mozart,chopin and others,with the pure black music of your ancestors from preslavery africa,and then come back and talk to me about "stale"if your people hadnt come into contact with whites,guess what??no jazz,no blues,no gospel,no nothing,so shut your mouth and show some respect

That is what Elvis’s main contribution was fool!!! Just because you folks had Elvis, DOESN’T MEAN THAT BLACK FOLKS DIDN’T HAVE NUMEROUS FOLKS OF THEIR OWN RACE, PLAYING THIS MUSIC!!

***they had NO ONE playing that music because it didnt exist till july 5th 1954



Now, with that said, I do realize that cover versions of songs will not sound 100% like the original versions,

***REALLY???you coulda fooled me with the way you repeat that over and over and over again.

however, if you reeeeeeeeeaaaaaalllly have listened to Arthur Crudup’s version of “That’s Alright Mama,” (as well as “My Happiness”, or those songs performed by the Mills Brothers, and especially Otis Blackwell) YOU’LL WILL NOTICE THE DISTINCT SIMILARITIES: especially if you were to listen to Otis Blackwell’s demos, as well as other demos!

***ive heard the original thats allright,and it does not sound similar where you can say its the same music.but there are similarities because,aside from the fact that its the same song,rock and roll is r&b and country,so since their is a strong r&b influence in 50s rock and roll,any cover of an old r&b song will always have some strong flavor of the original,dont mean hes copying it,or its the same exact music.


my response:

Just because the production is different, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE VOCALS AND TEMPO (which you admitted to, in regards to tempo) were not the same!! And okay, let’s say that the vocals were slightly different, in the sense that they have two distinct voices, THE PRODUCTION ON ELVIS PRESLEY’S RECORDING OF THE SAME SONG, DOESN’T MAKE IT THE FIRST ROCK AND ROLL RECORD EVER, FOOL!!!!! Pat Boone, when he sung “Tutti Frutti”, a song originally performed and sung by Little Richard, DOES THAT MEAN THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT PAT BOONE WAS SINGING, WAS OUTSIDE OF THE PALE OF WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL? Hell no!!!!

***no because pat boone did a stright cover of tutti fruti,whereas elvis threw in country rhythms and style into his cover,which makes it totally different
its like what puff daddy did in the 90s,when he covered that new wave song ,originally done by the police in the 80s"every breath you take"he covered it in tribute to the notorious big,does that mean puff daddy is a new wave performer,or that his cover was a new wave cover??NO,because he did a hiphop influenced remake of it,but its the same song though,or when the group the fugees remade that 70ssong"killing me softly with his song"does that mean the fugees were suddenly a 70s styled sould group??no,of course not,they added their own thing to it,and once again you show your appaling lack of knowledge when it comes to music,to downplaying the "production"of the song,hell the production the distinct sound that sam philips gave elvis stuff is what gave it a lot of its appeal,you can never downplay a songs production.



The same genre of music that Pat Boone performed during the 50’s (many of which were cover versions of songs performed and written by black singers), at the time, was considered Rock music, nothing original, only that it contained a different production, and a different way of singing the song; which was new and revolutionary in one sense, but not wholly original, to where you would place a new musical artform at his feet: THE SAME WITH ELVIS!!!

***refer to my earlier answer,pat did straight covers of the song,elvis mixed it u with country,lil richards muisc was more r&b sounding,so pat just did it straight,the exact way richards did it,like i said,richards style was different from everyone elses,it was based more on r&b




And also as I said before, Elvis Presley, as well other white musicians like Jerry Lee Lewis for instance, would perform songs that were written by black musicians, especially Otis Blackwell, who had the jerky and bouncy, vocally constricting type of singing style, which is evident, if you were to have listened to any of the original demos: demos that doesn’t sound anything remotely to country music; demos that Elvis the pelvis, and Jerry Lee, COPIED WHOLESALE!!!

***and i dont beleive for one second that you have heard any of those original songs either,i did hear the demo of dont be ruel,he even performed dont be cruel on the david letterman show in the 1980s
and i dont recall being knocked out by it,or tinking it was an exact vocal cover,but like i said in my first post,musicians borrow from each othe all the time,you dont think otis blackwell copied shit himself??that doesnt mean anything,if EVERY thing elvis did was an imitation of otis blackwell,thats one thing,but over one song??




In songs like “All Shook Up,” “Heartbreak Hotel,” and “Jailhouse Rock,” the demos, just like the Elvis recordings, contained none of that country and western influence you’re referring to!! Neither does “Don’t Be Cruel,” and “Return to Sender,” nor does the vocals!!! And mind you, these were the primary bulk of songs that made Elvis famous during the 50’s, and catapulted him to record chart breaking success throughout that decade! If I’m not mistaken, all of those songs were number 1 hits, and they were all written and performed first, by a black man, named Otis Blackwell, whose vocal stylings, Elvis Presley later adopted fully

***no your incorrect,leiber and stoller wrote jailhouse rock,and axton and durden wrote heartbreak hotel,get your facts straight.elvis recorded many different styles of muisc,i never said that every single song he did was a rock and roll song,he did country songs,he did gospel songs,he did all kinds of shit.its his sun sessions which is unquestioningly cited as the birth of rock and roll,and i hear country in those songs you mentioned by otis blackwell,although maybe not as pronounced as in other songs,but its there.






Oh and lastly fool, just in case I didn’t stress it well enough-I DID HEAR, AND DO POSSESS, THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF ARTHUR CRUDUP’S SONG, ON VINYL!! I picked it up from an antique record store in El Cerrito, Ca, called “Down Home Music.” Look it up, it’s there!

***SURRRRRRRRRRREEEE



OWEVER, when you say that black folks only influenced this music, as opposed to creating this music, but rather give that distinction to Elvis Presley, the supposed “king” of rock and roll-THAT’S WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!! Why? Because as I stated before, within the evidence that I had posted up previously, and even within this thread, that the music that was labeled Rock and Roll (r&b music of the late 40’s and early 50’s), by the dj Alan Freed, existed waaaaaaaaaay before Elvis Presley even came on the scene, so how can one honestly, with a straight face, refer to Elvis as recording the first rock and roll record, as well being the first to play rock and roll, when there are other musicians (namely black musicians) who existed before Elvis, and who was playing a music that was, and is called Rock and Roll???



***BECAUSE ONLY ALAN FREED AND NO ONE ELSE CALLED IT ROCK AND ROLL,AND ONLY IN THE 1950s,NO ONE ELSE CALLED IT THAT,AND FREED CALLED IT THAT SO HE WOULDNT HAVE HIS SHOWS SHUT DOWN
R&B IS NOT ROCK,ITS THAT SIMPLE



*No devil, I’m not “denying and belittling the white influence,” on Rock music; rather I, unlike you, am placing white folks in their proper place, in regards to their contributions to rock and roll, instead of as the creators and originators of this form! You see, when I deny your man Elvis, the bogus title of being the “king” of rock music, as well as the first person to record a “rock” record, that’s when your eurocentric, egotistical, privileged, latently racist mind, goes into overdrive, and accuse me of “denying and belittling the white influence,” just because I refuse to go along with your revisionist BS!!!


***guys like you are revisionists,most people accept that rock began as a distinct form with elvis,only guilty white liberals,and hatefilled afrocentrists say what your saying,a small meaningless minority,LOL



When this music was called Rock and Roll, it was called so during a point and time, WHEN ALL THE PERFORMERS WERE BLACK, AND THE MUSIC THEY WERE PLAYING WAS R&B, with a little boogie-woogie to boot!

***you see how stupid your arguments are??so if the music was r&b,waht happened later??why did they bother changing the name??why were
blacks like chuck berry reffered to as rock,but other blacks like ray charles called r&b??and when was it called rock and roll??in 1952???
just b/c one lone dj in cleveland called it that,that makes it so????
why wasnt it called rock in the 40s??your arguments are beyond pathetic.




*True enough, I never denied this, but I did say however, based on recordings that were companions to books put out by Robert Palmer and Alan Lomax, that a certain strain of the blues (i.e. Delta), do have direct linkage to many aspects of west African music! Especially those west Africans who played kora (string like instrument, somewhat similar to the guitar)!


***pure BS,blues only date back to america in the latter half of the nineteenth century,thats liberal wishful thinking at its worst



the way...were do you suppose the roots of rhythm and blues lie at??yep it comes from the blues,now where did the blues partially come from again???those "black roots"that you are talking about in rock and roll,are shot thru with a healthy dose of vanilla,my man,LOL.

Yeah fool, but one thing you are supremely overlooking-whether or not blues/r&b, have been polluted by “a healthy dose of vanilla”, the vanilla by itself would have never, couldn’t have ever, produced the music that black folks eventually created, WITHOUT THE BLACK RHYTHM AND SOUL!!!! Why do you think I argued with one on this site, concerning what black folks contributed culturally in this country, seeing as how much of their material culture (not all) was stripped away from them, to where when white folks gave them lemons, black folks made lemonade, and created something new and distinct!

***the point is not whether whites couldve done it with out blacks,the point is that r&b has white musical roots,because of its blues and gospel heritage,so its stupid to harp on the black roots,because those black roots are bleached with european muisc.



The reason why it’s not the same, AGAIN, with Elvis Presley, and his white boy confederacy (Bill Haley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, et al), in the sense that their music (black music, mixed with white folks music), was, and is the music that originated rock and roll, is because of the fact that, BEFORE THESE FOLKS EVEN RECORDED AND CAME ON THE SCENE, THE MUSIC THAT WAS REFERRED TO AS “ROCK AND ROLL”, WAS CALLED ROCK AND ROLL, WHEN BLACK MUSICIANS WERE PRIMARILY, AND SOLELY, PLAYING THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!! That’s the difference!!


***it was only called rock by one dj in cleveland and thats it,other r&b djs continued to call it r&b,to continue to refer to alan fred is really desperation,it doesnt compare WITH THE FACT that elvis started a revolution that led to numerous kids picking up a guitar,and trying to be like him,rock and roll was more then about music,it was about fashion,about style,notice that movies like "the wild one"or"rebel without a cause"are called rock and roll movies,even though their is no rock music in them,because they embody the style and feel of rock and roll,the rebelious spirit,and this came about only after elvis hit the scene.




The black r&b music that Alan Freed played on the radio, inspired him to call it (the music) Rock and Roll, a term that was taken from black slang, which referred to the sex act! And mind you, this music was first called Rock music, in 1951, prior to the advent of Elvis Presley, Bill Haley, and others of their kind, again, HIT THE SCENE-SO WHAT THE fu-- ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

***again refer to my previous post


Yeah right muthafucka, and much to your dislike and seething hatred, I DO HAVE ROBERT JOHNSON’S CD’S!!! I purchased both of his Cd’s entitled “Robert Johnson: King of the Delta Blues,” both volumes I and II!! (Presently, there’s an anthology of Robert Johnson out, that contains all of his songs together, including retakes; this anthology won a grammy award) Not only that, Wynonie Harris, Lucky Millinder, Charlie Christian, Reverend Gary Thomas (ragtime blues musician), the Washboard Rhythm Kings, Big Joe Turner, Lionel Hampton, and others, I’ve collected from antique record stores like the one in El Cerrito, Ca, (Down Home music), Tower Records, and other outlets, FOOL!!!!

***dont make me laugh,this is stuff you loked up on the internet,more sleight of hand BS,which is your trademark,again,let me ask you if rock is a fusion of country and r&b,isnt it to be expected that some elements which are similar could be found on some old R&b song??i mean isnt that like common sense??



Naw devil bitch, YOU ONLY WISH I NEVER HEARD THAT MUSIC BEFORE, IN ORDER TO SEQUESTER ME INTO A BOX OF BS ARTISTS LIKE YOURSELF!!! Trust me, you do indeed have black folks out there who listen to black music of the past, instead of being stuck on contemporary styles solely!!! HELL!! I use to play the acoustic guitar, sometimes with a slide accompaniment, while listening to cats like Robert Johnson, Son House, Charlie Patton (very hard to understand, I might add), Blind Lemon Jefferson, Reverend Gary Davis, while in college, FOOL!!! So bitch, you’re not telling me nothing about the music of my people, and what I’ve heard!

***motherfucker,you wouldnt know which end of the guitar to hold up,dont make me laugh!!
your just cutting and pasting,and trying to act like you know wht your talking about




*When do you consider Elvis coming along, IN 1954!!!! Look here you dumb bitch (and I hope folks are seeing this accurately for what it is) AS I SAID BEFORE, THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED PRIOR TO ELVIS PRESLEY COMING ON THE SCENE, AND DROPPING HIS FIRST RECORD, PERIOD!!! THE TERM “ROCK AND ROLL” WAS USED BY ALAN FREED, TO DESCRIBE THE TYPE OF BLACK R&B MUSIC HE PLAYED ON THE RADIO!!!!! FURTHERMORE, HE COINED THIS PHRASE IN 1951, again, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE ELVIS PRESLEY WAS EVEN A THOUGHT ON THE MUSICAL LANDSCAPE, YOU DUMB, IGNORANT DEVIL BASTARD!!!!


***but if the music existed for 10-15 years before he called it rock and roll,why would you have to call it something different,if it was the same exact music??you only rename something if it morphs into something else,and that certainly was not the case with r&b in 1952,but it was in 1954,when elvis created it.




Man, what the fu-- is wrong with you?????? Are you that fuckin’ blinded by your own racist need for Elvis to the “king?”

-you also admit that whites added their own thing to it,so what is the problem??

Yes I did admit that white folks added their own distinct and cultural flavor onto this music, so in that sense you’re right!!!! There’s no contradiction, or shame in my game!! But look here devil, JUST BECAUSE WHITE FOLKS ADDED THEIR OWN DISTINCT CULTURAL FLAVOR SOMEWHAT, ONTO THIS MUSIC, DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY CREATED ROCK AND ROLL, FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!

***its the same as when your people created blues DUMBASS


-


ive heard a lot of black has beens say that elvis stole his moves from blacks,yet ive never seen footage of any black performer,that would move in the same exact way as elvis,so until someone can show me that,ill file it in my afrocentric BS file, along with your other posts.

My response:

I don’t care what file you decide to put that information in devil!!! The fact that you dismiss it, doesn’t take away the validity and truthfulness of the information!! Hell, much of what you say, have already been filed away, in my eurocentric BS file, devil! And believe me, it’s voluminous!!! Again, this is just smokescreen drivel, from a devil who can’t fu-- with the information put before him!

Pitiful devil…

Furthermore, I’ve seen documentaries, and footage, of performers such as T-Bone Walker (he would shake his hips, as well as do splits, while playing his guitar behind his head), as well as black r&b performers, from the late 40’s and 50’s, who would do similiarly! As a matter of fact, I remember once seeing a pbs documentary, where they were doing dances such as the Charleston, where two black couples were dancing, only to drift apart, with some distance between them, and when the partners decided to come back to one another, they were walking with their shoulders slumped over, as if their legs were full of dead weight-I’ve seen Elvis do this on more than one occasion! Black performers of this time period, specifically those of the r&b/blues variety, were always performing on stage, especially the ones with guitar in tow!


***ive seen footage of all thses black guys who elvis supposedly copied,even wynonie harris,and none of those clowns could touch the king.elvis was supposed to have stolen his moves from black performers,now your saying he was getting it from couples dancing together??well that is a new twist,LOL.



“Elvis Presley, a young, still-raw hayseed, was making his first trip to the Big Apple to see his new record company, and the Apollo was where he wanted to be. Night after night in New York he sat in the Apollo, transfixed by the pounding rhythms, the dancing and prancing, the sexual spectacle of rhythm-and-blues masters like Bo Diddley. He had heard and emulated black singers all his life, but now he saw how black music affected the world's toughest audience. It was good medicine for him, and he repeated the dose often and to amazing effect. In 1955, Elvis's stage presence was still rudimentary. But watching Bo Diddley charge up the Apollo crowd undoubtedly had a profound effect on him. When he returned to New York a few months later for his first national television appearance, on Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey's "Stage Show," he again spent hours at the Apollo after rehearsals. On the Dorsey show Elvis shocked the entire country with his outrageous hip-shaking performance, and the furor that followed made him an American sensation.”

http://www.apollobook.com/pages/2/


***total BS,elvis was moving like that from his first performances,to say he stole it from lardass bo diddley is ridiculous.thats total BS




*The more and more you write, the more the true “idiot” is being exposed, and the finger’s not pointing at me. You see, your precious “vocal phrasing, the guitar playing, the amplified bass drum, the slapping bass fiddle, the instrumentation,” as well as what you call “the whole feel of the song,” which includes “the use of echo on elvis voice,” WASN’T THE AURAL TRADEMARK THAT LABELED THE MUSIC BLACK R&B MUSICIANS WERE PLAYING, DURING THE LATE 40’S AND 50’S, AS ROCK MUSIC FOOL!!!!!!! Black musicians at Sun, even before Elvis graced its doors, used that echo, amplified basses, and electric guitars, as well as sounds that were associated with what was labeled as Rock music, fool!!


***listen to you"the music black r&b musicians were playing during the late 40s and 50s as rock music"do you realize that you are no making no fucken sense,lol.



- have you ever listened to country music from the 40s or 50s(pre rock)?

*Most definitely…


***sure you have,you would never lie now would you??LOL.



-well thats a stupid question,

*Only the person asking the question…

-seeing as how you havent listened to a single r&b record that you cut and pasted.

*What it is, is that you want to BELIEVE that I never heard any of the music that I posted up, only to secure in your mind, the safety net, of dwelling in the land of make believe, with the intentional notion that I don’t know what I’m talking about, with the hopes of leading others into a way that you truly don’t believe deep down yourself, but rather want to believe.

Just like white racist devils! Always thinking that they know someone, or why someone operates the way they do!

-but if you ever do,you may realize that some of that has a rock feel too,the way some r&b does.

*The only reason why that is, is because many country and western musicians, like Hank Williams, and Jimmie Rodgers, to name a few, infused black gospel music, and blues, into their musical style, to where I don’t blame their music for having that bluesy, r&b sound to it!

-and country music was a big influence on chuck berrys playing style,not just with that one song,

*(Yawn) I know this, I’ve admitted as much earlier…

-and it is important,

*Oh really…

-because the fact that these songs crossed over on the charts proves that they were on to something revolutionary.none of these old songs were reffereed to as rock and roll either dude

*None of those country songs, were referred to as rock music, BECAUSE AT THE TIME, AND STILL NOW, COUNTRY MUSIC ISN’T, AND NEVER WAS WHAT WAS CONSIDERED ROCK AND ROLL, DESPITE THEIR BLUES AND BLACK GOSPEL INFLUENCES!!! What the fu-- are you talking about????



***yes but blues you seem to forget evolved from the same influences that country evolved from,so incorperating blues into country was not going to stand out as much as mixing country with r&b,,so the differences were far more subtle,once again your lack of muisc knlwledge rears its head
oh and as far as the phrase rock and roll,remember how i said that sailors in the thirties used it??well i must admit,i was wrong,the truth is sailors going all the way back to the 17th century used the phrase rock and roll
"The word "rock" had a long history in the English language as a metaphor for "to shake up, to disturb or to incite". Shakespeare used it in his play "Venus and Adonis" when he wrote "My throbbing heart shall rock thee day and night". The verb "Roll" was a medieval metaphor which meant "having sex". Writers for hundreds of years have used the phrases "They had a roll in the hay" or "I rolled her in the clover". In an old English sea chanty we can find the lyrics:

"Oh do, me Johnny Bowker . . .
Come Rock'n'Roll me over"

http://www.rockabillyhall.com/BillHaley.html
also thse white girls called the boswell sisters used it in 1934,almost twenty years before alan freed coined it
http://www.singers.com/jazz/vintage/boswell.html
read it and weep,motherfucker,LOL.

[jb7777]

whites are the ultimate opportunists...the ultimate thieves...ultimate immitators...proven throughout history...though they have invented much ...they have stolen...an unconcievable amount more

[willihen]

whites are the ultimate opportunists...the ultimate thieves...ultimate immitators...proven throughout history...though they have invented much ...they have stolen...an unconcievable amount more

Don't you mean Japanese?

[willihen]

just kidding.