Gangs & Poverty in Europe

[Jinky08]

Another shooting in the City Centre last night One guy was killed other guy got hit, drive by on a motorbike, here the links to the 2 incidents

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/disp ... 10.0.0.php

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/disp ... 13.0.0.php

[dinky]

Possible turf war? all the guys shot are from the east end.A cupla yr ago the Daniel and Lyons feud ended up with 11 shootings in about 6 months.

[Jinky08]

One of the guys who was shot in the drive-by was from Posso, Guy in the Calton was from Calton Thats North and East , But no i dont think they were related.

[dinky]

aye it said originally the guy was fae possil,in the days paper it said the two guys that got shot in the city centre were both fae the east end.Either way theres bound tae be comebacks 4 both incidents.

[Jinky08]

The papers ur fulla shite btw, they came up tae 2 a ma pals n offered them £50 tae get a picture a the guy who got shot in calton, n its rumourd they payed the guy who done the interview 100, a seen him the day up parkheed brew, hes a junkie.

[dinky]

sum mad junkie a hunner quid better aff !true with yer sayin tho, shouldnae take with the papers say too literal.

[Hu3ro]

Drummond Street Posse - Drummond St/Regents Park Estate (S)
I know this area well n never heard of these boys

[SoulJah]

souljah are all these crews you mentioned bonafide or just a few youts off the manor? seems to be an awful lot of crews springin up from nowhere

ITS A MIX OF BOTH, BUT YEAH YOUR RIGHT SOME ARE LOW LEVEL YOUTHS AND OTHERS ARE TOP END SHOTTAS RESPONSIBLE FOR SHOOTINGS AND MURDER.

MANY TIMES I QUESTION THE LIST, BUT THEN TIME AGO I STARTED READING THE ACADEMIC "GANG LITERATURE" MUCH OF IT FROM THE US, AND THE WAY THEY OFTEN DEFINE A GANG IS SO BROAD YOU ARE FORCED TO ACCEPT A LARGER NUMBER OF GROUPS THAN YOU YOURSELF WOULD REALLY CONSIDER TO BE A GANG - IF THAT MAKES SENSE?

MANY OF THESE GROUPS ARE YOUNGERS WHO HAVE HELD ONTO THIS GANG CULTURE LIKE SOME SORT OF FAD, REPPIN THEIR ENDS, FLAGGIN COLOURS AND GOING OUT TO SEEK SIMILAR YOUTHS IN NEIGHBOURING ENDZ SO THEY CAN ROB THEM, FIGHT THEM AND SO ON - PREDATORY GROUP BEHAVIOUR, BUT NOTHING NEW NONETHELESS. ALWAYS HAD ESTATE RIVALRIES ETC IN THE UK BUT WE NEVER CALLED EM GANGS ITS JUST THE WAY IT WAS, BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED, ITS NOT STOPPING AT A FIST FIGHT AND SO EVEN SOME OF THE LESS SERIOUS "GANGS" OR GROUPINGS HAVE BECOME INVOLVED IN MURDERS (I.E. BEN HITCHCOCK IN SOUTH LONDON).

ANOTHER THING WITH THE GROUPS ON THAT LIST IS THAT THE LARGE MAJORITY IF NOT ALL SEE THEMSELVES AS A GANG - BUT YOU ASK THEM WHAT A GANG IS AND THEY DONT KNOW, AND SIMILARLY THEY WILL TELL YOU THEIR RIVALS "AINT A REAL GANG, THEYRE WASTE, WE'RE THE REAL DEAL".

I SEE WHERE YOU COMING FROM THOUGH, IN MY HONEST OPINION, GANGS AS WHAT YOU WOULD STEREOTYPE AND LIKEN TO THE US (BASED ON WHAT WE SEE FROM HOLLYWOOD) ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN IN LONDON, I WOULD SAY MOST BOROUGHS HAVE NONE, MAINLY THE OUTER BOROUGHS, WHILST SOME HAVE 1 OR 2 AND THEN EXCEPTIONS WITH MANY WOULD BE LAMBETH AND HACKNEY. ANOTHER THING THOUGH IS CERTAIN BIGGER GANGS HAVE BROKEN INTO SEPERATE SMALLER GANGS MAKING THE NUMBER OF NAMED GROUPS GREATER.

THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF SMALLER NAMED CLIQUES WHO ARE JUST OUT ON MONEY MAKING VENTURES, DOING THERE MUSIC OR WHATEVER AND BECOMING INVOLVED IN BEEF OVER SILLY THINGS. I WAS LIVING IN EDMONTON UNTIL RECENTLY AND CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT THERE ARE THREE GROUPS YOU COULD CALL GANGS IN THE AREA, THE SHANKSTARZ WHO REP GREEN (ONE OF THEIR MANZ WAS MURDERED MAFIOSO STYLE IN ENFIELD IN 07, EXECUTED AFTER BEING FOLLOWED AND WAS WAERING A BULLYPROOF, AND ANOTHER OF THEIR MAN SENTENCED FOR THE MURDER OF ANOTHER EDMONTON YOUT IN 08), THEN MONEY RESPECT POWER WHO IDENTIFY WITH GREY BANDANAS (A RELATIVELY NEW PREDOMINANTLY AFRICAN/BLACK BRITISH GANG OF SHOTTAS WHO HAVE HAD A FEW GUN DISPUTES WITH SHANKSTARZ OVER THE PAST YEAR AND ONE OF THEIR MAN WAS MURDERED BY A SHANKSTAR IN 08). FINALLY YOU GOT RED BRICK CREW/THUGS WHO ALSO MURDERED A EDMONTON YOUT IN 08. ANOTHER SMALLER CLIQUE OF AFRICANS IN THE AREA ARE the/DEM AFRICANS/DANGEOURS AFRICANS, MAINLY FROM CENTRAL AFRICA/CONGO - TWO OF THEM YOUTS WAS MURDERED IN JAN 08 OVER PETTY TERRITORIAL DISPUTES HALF A MILE FROM ONE ANOTHER IN EDMONTON.

NOW YEAH, I CAN SIT BACK AND TAKE IN THE COLOURS, TURFS, AND GANG WANNABE MENTALITY OF THESE YOUTHS AND SAY THIS ISNT 'BRITISH BEEF' (EXCUSE THE TERM), AND YEAH ITS A LONG WAY FROM LA SO ITS NOT CERTIFIED AND KIND OF EMBARASSING. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, DRUGS AND CASH AND ROBBERY ARE CENTRAL ACTIVITIES OF THESE GROUPS AND SHOOTINGS, STABBINGS AND MURDERS DO HAPPEN BETWEEN THESE GROUPS ON A FREQUENT BASIS, NOT AS FREQUENT AS THE MEMBERS THEMSELVES MAKE OUT BUT STILL OFTEN.

AND IN EDMONTON ALREADY YOU HAVE GOT THE NEXT GENERATION OF 12-15 YEAR OLDS CLAIMING TO BE SHANKSTAR JUNIORS AND MRP YOUNGERS (GREY CITY YOUNGERS THEY CALL EMSELVES) AND ARE GETTIN TOOLED UP TO TAKE EACH OTHER ON AT SCHOOL OR AROUND THE GREEN, IMITATING THE BEHAVIOUR OF THEIR OLDERS - ITS JUST A BIG CYCLE OF GROUPS PERIODICALLY REPLACING GROUPS, WHICH AGAIN IS NOT ANYTHING NEW TO ESTATES IN BRITAIN BUT WHEN THERES A MURDER OR SOMETHING SERIOUS AND THE YOUNGERS ARE RELATED OR LINKED TO THE INVOLVED OLDERS IN SOME WAY THEN THE GROUP BECOMES MORE OF A GANG THROUGH THE CONTINUED RIVALRY.

IN MY OPINION THOUGH, SERIOUS GANGS IN LONDON (FOR ALL THESE GROUPS IM THINKING MAINLY OF THE OLDERS NOT YOUNGERS):
TOTTENHAM MANDEM
PIFF CITY (LEYTON-CHINGFORD)
BEAUMONT CREW (LEYTON)
HACKNEY E8/E5/JACK DUNNINZ CREWS
LOVE OF MONEY (HOXTON/N1)
PECKHAM BOYS
NEW CROSS/DEPTFORD GHETTO BOYS
WOOLWICH SOMALIANS
BRIXTON/STOCKWELL SW8/SW9 CREWS
HARLESDEN/KILBURN NW6/NW10 CREWS

SOME BOROUGHS I DONT RATE AT ALL FOR STREET GANGS, BUT NOT SAYING THEY DONT HAVE SERIOUS OLDER CRIMS ON MORE ORGANISED THINGS (PLACES SUCH AS BEXLEY, BROMLEY, SUTTON, KINGSTON UPON THAMES, RICHMOND UPON THAMES, HOUNSLOW, HILLINGDON, HARROW, BARNET, HAVERING)

A LOT OF ORGANISED CRIME GETS OVERLOOKED COS PEEPS DONT REALLY KNOW OF IT - LIKE THE ALBANIANS, ALGERIANS, OTHER EASTERN EUROPEAN HEADS WHO MEET AT A SWANKY LOCATION ON TOTTENHAM COURT ROAD TO CARVE UP THE CITIES COMMERICIAL STREETS FOR THEIR BEGGARS, VAGRANTS, PICK-POCKETS, WINDSCREEN WASHERS, PROSTITUTES ETC....

[cliffard]

the manors that you mentioned have always been the notorious manors of london..brixton stockwell peckham etc. down south, tottenham hackney harlesden kilburn up north, the only thing that surprises me is theres not any east end crews mentioned with the exception of hoxton. the east end has been ragga from time.

[Rifle]

bangladeshi crews are a danger, although the bengali crews are unlikely to use guns they do an awful lot of stabbing. bethnal green is practiacally run by bengali youths who end up clashing with the e1, brick lane and e3 boys. the somalians in bethnal green are nothing compared to bengali gangs. you can find bengali gangs in e12 manor park, e7 forest gate and ilford and these bengali boys have bare hatred towards pakistanis and indians. out of all the asians gangs and areas, id say the bangladeshis are the most dominant as nearly half of tower hamlets is all bengali. in e1, e2, e3, e7, e12 and e14 you'll find an awful lot of bengali gangs that end up fighting each other, 26 out of 27 gangs in tower hamlets is benagli, if the bengali gangs stopped fighting each other and got along, i dont think any other gangs would have a chance against them

[SOUFLONDON]

In comparison to other cities, Londons ghettos ain't are no way as poor. I been to other cities in the UK, especially up north and the midlands.Their estates are ghetto. Truss. Them terraced style houses u see at the beginning of coronation street might look old fashioned and non threatening but their communities have a high level of poverty and deprivation.
Yeah, we got highrises and low income broken families, guns drugs and crime, but it's the same shit in alot of these other cities. Only difference is, the ghetto in London, might be just around the corner from million pound mansions in gated communities. We can see the tower blocks of the city from some place or another. There are no large areas of poverty and deprivation like they have in some northern cities and the states where you can walk for half an hour and still be in the ghetto.
Not really surprised why a place like Glasgow is more violent. There is nothing to do in places like that. No real opportunites. Just a life of boredom. Gang violence there has been passed down for generations, just like the Chi Town or LA gang violence. Only thing is, they don't have the straps available like the Yanks or even in London, or if they do, they maybe jus prefer not to use them as much.
Infact, a lot of "gang members" (dont even like calling them that cos most of the time they just groups of friends- The media has got it twisted!!!) do not come from poverty, not REAL poverty.
Oh yeah, That map is out of date too, gangs in south London done spread all the way south to Tooting to Mitcham, heath and Croydon. Demographics changing, gentrification kicking the havenots out of the inner city and they repopulating the greater london boroughs now

[cliffard]

rifle is that how things run up east nowadays? i left over ten years ago, there was plenty bengalis but they were starting to form gangs then, you had black youths in gangs some mixed race and white lads had connections to the old families. whereabouts you stay in e2, i used to live in the flats by vicky park, sewardstone road by the cricketers, probably gone now.
souflondon you feel its rougher up north...hmmm i dont know about that, i think in all the major cities in britain you've got your good and bad bits.

[rhyno]

I stayed at my uncles house in jubilee street and it was really bad in that area. If they dont know you they will end up mugging you. They are linked with stp and clichy, i think this is a top gang in tower hamlets.

[Rifle]

I stayed at my uncles house in jubilee street and it was really bad in that area. If they dont know you they will end up mugging you. They are linked with stp and clichy, i think this is a top gang in tower hamlets.

jubilee street massive are a bengali gang...the gang has around 50 - 60 youths and they can be very violent and if you go in them areas them youths will end up stabbing you

[reppineast]

I live in east london ( whitechapel) and jubilee st are considered by other boyz as minor.
Theyr scared to come out of their own endz.
Dey only shank up in der own endz n that .
The real bengali gang threats r BLM (Brick lane massive), Stepney posse , cannon street posse , bethnal green massive and shadwell massive.
Those are the gangs that r into the high level criminal activity

[ogilmore]

Dublin and Limerick used to be notorious for chronic poverty. Id say Glasgow is the worst now though. Serious slums in that town.

[neutraldiscussion]

I AGREE TO MANY COMMENTS
BUT I COULDNT BELIEVE MA EYEZ WEN I WOZ WALKIN DWN BRADY STREET (E1) A YOUNG GROUP OF BENGALI BOYZ WERE CHILLIN NEAR the GRAVE YARD WHEN TWO 4 BY 4 CARS AND A LOW RIDER PULLED UP, 13 BOYZ HOPPED OFF THE CARZ WITH MACHETIES WEARIN BALACLAVAS STARTED CHASING AND SLICIN THE YOUNG BOYZ AND STABBED TWO OF THEM TO ALMOST DEATH. YOUNG BOYZ WHO WERE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL AND RECOVERED. HOWEVER THIS WAS NOT THE SHOCKING PART ALTHOUGH IT WAS BUT THINGS GOT WORSE THREE YOUNG BOYZ PROBABLY A FEW YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE VICTIMS RIDING BIKES FROM THE SAME CREW OF THE VICTIMS CAME SPEEDING TOWARDS THE CARZ WHICH WERE LEAVING BUT CHASED UP AND PULLED OUT ONE BOY FROM THE CAR AND BEATED HIM INTENSLY BUT THEN RETRIETED WHEN THEY WERE OUTNUMBERED AND THE SUSPECTS MADE THEIR RUN.

[neutraldiscussion]

I AGREE TO MANY COMMENTS
BUT I COULDNT BELIEVE MA EYEZ WEN I WOZ WALKIN DWN BRADY STREET (E1) A YOUNG GROUP OF BENGALI BOYZ WERE CHILLIN NEAR the GRAVE YARD WHEN TWO 4 BY 4 CARS AND A LOW RIDER PULLED UP, 13 BOYZ HOPPED OFF THE CARZ WITH MACHETIES WEARIN BALACLAVAS STARTED CHASING AND SLICIN THE YOUNG BOYZ AND STABBED TWO OF THEM TO ALMOST DEATH. YOUNG BOYZ WHO WERE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL AND RECOVERED. HOWEVER THIS WAS NOT THE SHOCKING PART ALTHOUGH IT WAS BUT THINGS GOT WORSE THREE YOUNG BOYZ PROBABLY A FEW YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE VICTIMS RIDING BIKES FROM THE SAME CREW OF THE VICTIMS CAME SPEEDING TOWARDS THE CARZ WHICH WERE LEAVING BUT CHASED UP AND PULLED OUT ONE BOY FROM THE CAR AND BEATED HIM INTENSLY BUT THEN RETRIETED WHEN THEY WERE OUTNUMBERED AND THE SUSPECTS MADE THEIR RUN.

[Greaze]

neutraldiscussion it says on ur gang identity that ur a blood now no offense to u but u can claim anything u want but if u dont have legit contacts from the U.S. that have given u the go ahead to start a set ur gang is not a real blood gang

[tazblud]

Im from Brick Lane Massive everyone knows us manz but i can say that them jubilee street boyz have bottle, ive seen one of the boyz cut another persons head into two with a machete and i also remember them having deep beef with the whole of shadwell and lukin street and they took them out. I know jsm boyz and their ayt if you know them and BLM is safe with them.

[BakalaKing]

YALL GUYS TALKIN BS, I BEEN IN LONDON NEVER SEEN NO GANG, BUT IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR CONCEPT OF GANG.
IF A GANG IS JUST A GROUP OF TEENAGE BOYS THEN SURE U HAVE THEM IN LONDON, BUT A GANG AS CRIMINALS THEN NO.

[Sentenza]

YALL GUYS TALKIN BS, I BEEN IN LONDON NEVER SEEN NO GANG, BUT IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR CONCEPT OF GANG.
IF A GANG IS JUST A GROUP OF TEENAGE BOYS THEN SURE U HAVE THEM IN LONDON, BUT A GANG AS CRIMINALS THEN NO.

Police identify 169 London gangs

A police report on London's gang culture has identified 169 separate groups, with more than a quarter said to have been involved in murders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 383933.stm

[BakalaKing]

YALL GUYS TALKIN BS, I BEEN IN LONDON NEVER SEEN NO GANG, BUT IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR CONCEPT OF GANG.
IF A GANG IS JUST A GROUP OF TEENAGE BOYS THEN SURE U HAVE THEM IN LONDON, BUT A GANG AS CRIMINALS THEN NO.

Police identify 169 London gangs

A police report on London's gang culture has identified 169 separate groups, with more than a quarter said to have been involved in murders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 383933.stm

AND ? EVEN IN AMERICA SOME GROUPS OF FRIENDS ARE CALLED GANGS, I KNOW MY CONCEPT OF WHATS A GANG.
YET AS I SAID, ANYTHING IS CALLED A GANG, IF A GROUP OF FRIENDS GOES BEAT SOMEONE ON THE STREET, THEYLL REPORT IT AS A GANG.
IN MY OPINION, THE CALIFORNIA JUSTICE DEFINITION OF A GANG, ITS MORE ACCURATE, YET NOT EVERYBODY APPLIES IT.
IN LONDON WHAT YOU HAVE ARE GROUPS OF FRIENDS, COPY CATS, AND NEIGHBOURHOOD GROUPS THAT ENGAGE IN FIGHTS BUT I DONT SEE A GROUP THAT " ENGAGE IN A PATTERN OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ".

[Sentenza]

AND ? EVEN IN AMERICA SOME GROUPS OF FRIENDS ARE CALLED GANGS, I KNOW MY CONCEPT OF WHATS A GANG.
YET AS I SAID, ANYTHING IS CALLED A GANG, IF A GROUP OF FRIENDS GOES BEAT SOMEONE ON THE STREET, THEYLL REPORT IT AS A GANG.
IN MY OPINION, THE CALIFORNIA JUSTICE DEFINITION OF A GANG, ITS MORE ACCURATE, YET NOT EVERYBODY APPLIES IT.
IN LONDON WHAT YOU HAVE ARE GROUPS OF FRIENDS, COPY CATS, AND NEIGHBOURHOOD GROUPS THAT ENGAGE IN FIGHTS BUT I DONT SEE A GROUP THAT " ENGAGE IN A PATTERN OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ".

What do you call a pattern of criminal activity? I would call stealing, robbing, drug dealing and killing just that. Its the same thing that US gangs do to get labelled a gang.
Police wouldnt identify a bunch of friends as a gang. They have their criteria.

Probably a more accurate estimation for gang membership, although dated, can be found in the 2004 Home Office document "Delinquent Youth Groups and Offending Behaviour" [39]. The report, using a methodology developed by American gang experts and practitioners, estimated that 6% of young people aged 10–19 were classified as belonging to a delinquent youth group, although based on the most stringent criteria this was 4%.

London gangs are increasingly marking their territory with gang graffiti, usually a gang name and the Post Code area or Housing Estate they identify with[9].

[...]

A number of the criminal gangs in the United Kingdom specialise in the importation, production and sale of illicit drugs. Of the 2,800 gangs identified within the United Kingdom it is estimated that 60% are involved in drugs

In 2003, it was reported that Yardie drug gangs were present in 36 of the 43 police force areas in England and Wales [53]. One of the more prominent were the Aggi Crew in Bristol.

In 1998, six members of the Aggi Crew were imprisoned after being found in possession of over £1 million worth of crack-cocaine.[54]

There were raids across the city which was the latest phase of Operation Atrium, launched in 2001 to clamp down on drug-related crime in Bristol by disrupting organised gangs. More than 960 people have been arrested in the past 18 months.

One of the bloodiest drug gang rivalries involving Pakistani gangs occurred in the Bradford district (including Keighley). A bloody turf war between two local drug gangs resulted in the murder of four young Asian men from Keighley in a five-and-a-half month period, from September 2001 to February 2002.

In other reports it has been suggested that Turkey replaced Pakistan as the most important transit point for heroin, and it is estimated that 80% of heroin intercepted by British authorities belongs to Turkish gangs [61]. A recent spate of murders in London in 2009 have been linked to a heroin drugs war involving rival Turkish and Turkish-Kurdish gangs in north London [62]. It is believed that the feud is between two organised drug gangs, the Turkish 'Tottenham Boys'[63] and the 'Bombarcilar' or 'Bombers' from Hackney. The Bombers were lead by Abdullah Babysin who was said to be Britain's largest importer of heroin, he was convicted in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_t ... ed_Kingdom

I really dont see any difference.

Tit-for-tat gang war plunged into killings
http://archive.thetelegraphandargus.co. ... 11104.html

[Sentenza]

The gang shootings that put police with machine guns on London's streets

Three weeks ago the feud's most audacious killing took place. Oktay Erbasli, a prominent member of the Tottenham Boys, was waiting at traffic lights at a busy junction in his Range Rover when a motorcycle pulled alongside. A hitman linked to the Bombacilar gang opened fire, killing the 23-year-old, but missing his five-year-old stepson seated beside him. Within the tit-for-tat mentality of gangland retribution, reprisals are inevitable. In Erbasli's case it came within 72 hours: Cem Duzgun, 21, had been playing snooker in a Clapton social club with friends when two hooded men approached at 10.50pm and opened fire with a semi-automatic weapon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/2 ... ice-london

[bodx]

The common denominator is definitely poverty.
A man has to have some status.
If you're poor and you have no hope of getting anywhere in the normal system for whatever reason of course you will resort to violence to get respect.

That's what it's really all about: getting respect and admiration from those around for being the hardest bastard in town.

I laugh when I read the ignorant Americans post on here about the UK as if there is no poverty there.
Fuck sake, I saw poverty even in Oslo, the richest city on the face of the earth.

If your dad's in jail and your mum's a junkie and you live with your grannie and the other kids take the piss because of it, you have to have pretty strong mental willpower to be able to shrug it off. And if you try to shrug it off you might get picked on even more. Obviously you're going to turn around and chib the little prick giving you shite. If you enjoy it or are successful at it, you might feel good enough about it to make a career of it.