Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

In this section discuss Albania [Shqipërisë], Bulgaria [България], Croatia, Macedonia [Македонија, Makedonija] and Russia [Федерация, Rossiyskaya] including any other place on the Eastern European continent.
User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » January 28th, 2015, 11:44 pm

According to a report by a German newspaper:

160,000 Russian gangsters in Europe
70,000 in Italy
40,000 in America
37,000 in Asian countries

Which makes sense, since they say there are over 300,000 Russian mafia members operating outside of the ex Soviet Union. When you add it up, 160,000 around Europe + 70 in Italy + 40 in America and 37 in Asia equals to about 307,000. It's easy to misunderstand the article, and I at first thought that 70,000 Italian gangsters around Europe as well as 37,000 Asian gangsters around Europe sounded reasonable, but how in the hell, or why, 40,000 American gangsters around Europe? Also, when they mention Italians or Asians, they refer to organized crime yet why would 40,000 American organized crime members be in Europe when there's hardly 40,000 Americans involved in organized crime in America who are actually American and not anything else? So that made sense...

Furthermore, another 20,000 Russian gangsters are in Poland, apparently. Not to mention they charge Mexican drug lords 30 percent of their profits for money laundering in the United States. That's awesome. There's your share in a market composed of cocaine and heroin worth tens of billions of dollars, and they make billions just by laundering the Mexicans' money. Hey, I know of some Russians involved in finance and holy shit, the tricks they know. I wish I did, I really do I'm not hiding that. Anybody would.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/columns/1 ... 00786.html

The Russian mafia moves about 40 tons of cocaine on a regular basis...back into Europe, on planes, from South America, in exchange for weapons to the Colombians. How regular, it is, on the other hand, is a question up for debate. Maybe monthly? They don't really give a specific time frame, but since they don't mention annually, and I'm guessing these exchanges happen more often than once a year(obviously, why not, if you're a drug cartel with thousands of new fighters every year that is fighting a civil war against a US backed government for over 50 years, you're going to need some guns, bombs and ammo at least once a month, right?).... Considering plus how many farmers rely on making their living off of working the cocaine fields...

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3340035/#.VMnKUSvF9c8

According to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, the Russian mafia controls over 40,000 companies and about 40 percent of Russia's GDP. Now, why the hell, would Citizenship and Immigration Canada look into this, is what I wonder the most out of this article.. It would be hella surprising if the Russian mafia controlled those 40,000 companies in Canada, of course, but that's probably not the case, even though I personally wouldn't be surprised. The GTA alone hosts over 100,000 companies, but then again, how many urban areas are there in all of Canada with a Russian diaspora as large as Toronto's or with that amount of companies anyways? This would be something more possible in the US since it's a larger country. Besides, how many Russian gangsters could there probably be compared to the US? Maybe 4,000-5,000 in Toronto? 2,000 in Vancouver? 1,000 in Montreal? Sure, we know it maybe a worldwide estimate, but then again 40,000 companies divided up between 3.3 million Russian mafia members worldwide.... Okay... I guess that could work.

Then again, I know a Bulgarian mob boss who had 40 companies, and a Bulgarian mafia connected British lord by the name of Robert Maxwell who had over 200 companies! Wouldn't it be more practical to hide your ridiculous sums of illegitimate money through several shell companies than through one actual company with actual employees who have no idea they're working for a criminal mastermind? And what if they did? How do you train regular people nowadays, especially in places like Canada and America, who are brainwashed into the stupid American culture, to not freak out whenever they run into something that they are not usually accustomed to dealing with?

Also, 40 percent of 3.3 trillion dollars is like 1.4 trillion dollars. I'm not sure if that's a 1.4 trillion dollars on top of those 3.3 trillion dollars aka they make as much money both legally and illegally as what would amount to 40 percent of the Russian economy OR if it is as it's written: The Russian mafia controls 40 percent of Russia's legal economy through 40,000 companies.

http://conflicts.rem33.com/images/yett_ ... selton.htm

And last but not least, the most interesting fact out of them all, that a member of this board didn't believe me awhile back since it meant that would be 1 in 50 people in Russia would be involved in organized crime(aka there's 3 million Russian mafia members in Russia, a country of 143 million people). Believe me, I was born in and have lived in a mafia state myself, I know it's a very possible thing and that compared to America, they don't hide their wealth. Also, Slavs, in general, not to be biased or anything, have better street smarts than other Caucasian groups, this is a proven fact throughout history. It's not unusual for 1 in every 50 people to be a gangster. Maybe in America or Canada, but not in Slavic countries. It's just the way it is. If you took Russians and trained them Karate, 9 out of 10 people will turn out to be great fighters. With Americans and Canadians, it's 1 in 10. It's just the way it is. You have an isolated history and don't have the warrior or mafia gene in your veins. Invading a new country every 5 years doesn't count if only a fraction of your population is fighting a war and your people at home are safe like nothing is going on overseas.

Also, take into account that 1.4 million gang members, aka dress up like rappers, talk in a way that's stupid but only they think is cool, yet idolize the mafia....is normal for the US... That's how mafia is in Eastern Europe. Mafia culture in Europe = gang culture in the US. Plain and simple. I don't know why it's hard for Americans/Canadians to understand...maybe they don't like the fact that there might actually be truth to how a stupid people part of a country give birth to stupid criminals part of that country? American gang members can't exist anywhere except in places with heavy American influence, such as Canada or parts of Western Europe. That's why say....the Hells Angels doesn't even have a chapter in some of those shady European countries where it's obvious the biker gang culture is too stupid to thrive, like Macedonia or Serbia, where the mafia has a monopoly on crime. No gangs will ever be formed, and even thinking about forming one is stupid. Why, why why would you, when you have all these mafiosos you can learn from on how to be ruthless and effective, mafia style, and learn how to move tons of drugs and launder through your own companies instead of learning stupid gang signs and how to mix baking soda with cocaine to make crack like you would on the streets of LA???

http://web.wm.edu/so/monitor/issues/07-1/4-hatcher.htm

DutchGangster69
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 917
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 10:06 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Arkansas
What city do you live in now?: Toronto

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby DutchGangster69 » January 30th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Stock of direct foreign investment - abroad compares the cumulative US dollar value of all investments in foreign countries made directly by residents - primarily companies - of the home country, as of the end of the time period indicated. Direct investment excludes investment through purchase of shares.

Russia 439,200,000,000

DutchGangster69
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 917
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 10:06 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Arkansas
What city do you live in now?: Toronto

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby DutchGangster69 » January 30th, 2015, 5:58 pm

Russian residents assets outside of russia 1,241,395 trillion USD according to the bank of Russia. Possibly 40 percent belonging to mafia. This statistic doesn't include Russians living outside of Russia.

DutchGangster69
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 917
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 10:06 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Arkansas
What city do you live in now?: Toronto

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby DutchGangster69 » January 30th, 2015, 6:00 pm

I've watched documentaries following real Russian gangsters and they know theres more money in legitimate business then selling drugs, prostitution or other crimes.

User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » February 6th, 2015, 1:40 am

DutchGangster69 wrote:Stock of direct foreign investment - abroad compares the cumulative US dollar value of all investments in foreign countries made directly by residents - primarily companies - of the home country, as of the end of the time period indicated. Direct investment excludes investment through purchase of shares.

Russia 439,200,000,000


The Russians had alot of practice during the Cold War when it came to international political and business strategy, not to mention the countless skirmishes they were behind as part of black ops. If the Bulgarian Secret Service, a small country of about 10 million people at the time(so late 1970s) allied with the Soviet Union could have hundreds of front companies from Los Angeles to Tokyo, then imagine the influence the Soviet Union had under Moscow. We're talking about a nation that had 22.4 million sq km and nearly 300 million people living in it at the time of it's collapse(1991) that split up into 15 different countries. Yugoslavia, which is currently split into 7 different countries, had the 4th strongest military out of any European country during the Cold War(after the USSR, the UK and France, so even beating Italy and Spain as single countries, obviously we'd count out the US military in Europe, or proxies like West or East Germany). It also had the 2nd largest air force in Europe. Yet it was a country of 23 million people, was a Socialist/Communist state that was neutral(not allied to NATO or the Warsaw Pact) and was planning on exerting influence in the Balkans to the point where it created a Balkan Federation putting Yugoslavia together in a union with Bulgaria and Albania, and further plans included Greece, Romania and even Turkey! Yugoslavia, a nation of 23 million people, was not just a regional power like say South Africa would be in modern times, but was a European power during the Cold War, kind of like how France is now. Except Yugoslavia had more power than France does now, even though 14 African countries still pay colonial tax to France. What Yugoslavia tried to do is comparable to that of what Turkey is currently trying to do, except Yugoslavia wanted to just influence southeast Europe directly, and extend their power to maybe Western and Eastern Europe, especially the USSR, France and Italy. What Turkey is trying to do, on the other hand, is regain it's former glory from the Ottoman empire. This is why it both directly and indirectly(or covertly yet directly) meddles in the affairs of the entire Middle East, as well as the Caucasus and the Balkans region. Together you have Turkey, in the past 20 years, exerting more influence in a region of over 500 million people than the US ever could in the past 10 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, that's a sad but true fact, and I know it's hardly believable but it is what it is. Now imagine the USSR, which together with the Warsaw Pact(which it controlled directly), covered an area of over 30 million km and over 500 million people. They had 50 years to practice a holy hell of a lot, ranging from conflicts and coup detats and strategy exercises in South America, to Africa, to Europe, to the Middle East and East and South Asia and so on.. Alot of those KGB bosses became mob bosses. Imagine the knowledge, connections and tactics they took with them to the new era. You could not have succeeded as the Russian mafia did so quickly just by being brutal. If that's the fact, then you would've been what the Albanian mafia tried to be in NYC. They made some dust lift but didn't have the connections to back it up with. The Russians didn't stay in power because they did anything new that nobody expected - they took and stayed in power because they had connections to begin with. I'm pretty sure alot of their connections were aware of what the collapse of the USSR meant for business or for future prospects.

Look at how many wars the Ottoman empire had with the Russian empire. The Russian and British empires were the only ones who could match up to the power, potential and scope that the Ottoman empire had. Not even the German empire,the Austro-Hungarian empire or the French and Spanish empires. The Russians because of their size and the British because of their colonies. The Ottomans may not have covered much land, but they had a strong military force. The British were more of an economic/industrial power than a military one, so the Russians would be the only ones to match the Ottomans militarily since both Russians and Turks are fierce fighters. Imagine taking the Caucasus from the Russians and keeping it for several hundred years. Imagine occupying the Arabs and Balkans for several hundred years. Not alot of people can do that, but the Ottomans did, and either modern day Turks are similar to people from the Balkans or Middle East or the people of the Balkans and the Middle East are similar to the Turks. The Spanish empire could only take on the Ottoman empire if they had all of South America united under their wings, and the French under Napoleon. Now imagine if the Ottoman empire was one again, all of the Middle East, Balkans and Caucasus united under Turkey. They would be a power greater than Germany, France, Italy or the UK. Only Russia, China and the US would be able to take them on militarily. Think about it. Serbia was a country NATO didn't want to invade by ground, but imagine all of those countries.

Now imagine if all 15 ex Soviet republics were one again. Russia is already considered to be the 2nd most powerful military on the planet after the US, and China is third. China should be second, but no, Russia is. And we've learned that unity equals strength, so having even 30 countries like NATO does during an invasion under your command, even if they are small ones, is better than having two or three medium sized countries or sometimes even one big country.

DutchGangster69 wrote:Russian residents assets outside of russia 1,241,395 trillion USD according to the bank of Russia. Possibly 40 percent belonging to mafia. This statistic doesn't include Russians living outside of Russia.


More like 80 percent belonging to the mafia. I come from a shit country, believe me, you don't just immigrate somewhere and succeed like nothing. The system in the West is specifically designed to screw you over, but the rich know that the only way to get rich is to lie, cheat and steal... And the rest of the population lives denying this reality or are too cowardly/comfortable to give it a try. The only other way is through loans, bank loans, business loans, the credit debt system. As you pay off your debt, slowly, bills, mortgage, car payments, student loans, whatever, they give you more and more credit until 10 years later like my cousin you get banks offering you a credit card with a $30,000 limit on it. Except, $30,000 is not enough to open up a business in America. You need at least $500,000. That's why Canadian citizens can buy themselves a green card for $500,000 through an investor visa. Estimate to open up a gym - $3.2 million. Try other things. So in order to get that amount from the bank, you need to have collateral, and something more than just a few crappy cars - you need a nice condo, big fancy house, which how are you going to buy if you don't already make at least $6,000-$7,000 minimum a month after taxes? And I'm talking about living in the suburbs in most American cities that aren't NYC. It's just impossible - especially on minimum wage - which is what most immigrants make when they come to either Canada or the US. They continue making this unless they get connections or a diploma, or work for the same guy for 10 years, then maybe they make 5 dollars more an hour than minimum wage. But that's the reality. Also, with laws like Canada's, which gives employers the right to fire anybody without a reason given that the proper time is given in advance(2 weeks), similarly employees can quit at any time without facing any penalties. So you see alot of people getting fired for reasons that don't make alot of sense, are complete falsehoods or have nothing to do with reality - even to Americans working in Canada - just because they want to avoid a lawsuit, this way they "had" a "legitimate" reason. This means you'll start off at another job, once a year or once every two years, who knows, sometimes 3, and if you don't have a diploma or connections or gained skills that would get you a better job, then chances are you'll start off from minimum wage again. And the season for finding jobs is usually the summer and beginning of fall. If you get fired at New Years like I know some people did, you could be out of work for up to 3 months until the spring, and if you don't have a personal little slush fund on the site you'll also be out homeless on the street, and I've seen a different person every week asking for money on the same street corner and their sign said "Out of luck and on the street, need money for food". Mafia and rich families immigrate out of Russia with money, not normal people. Since you're Dutch, you're Germanic, I'll explain to you how some Eastern cultures work like I've done to Americans, Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Irish, Scottish, Danish, etc.

Not all - but certain Slavic cultures - especially those who write in Cyrillic and have Eastern Orthodox Christianity as their religion - like Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Belorussians and Bulgarians - are more prone to having a mafia style culture or mentality than are ones who write in Latin and have the Roman Catholic Christianity as their religion - like Poles, Slovaks, Czechs, Croats, Slovenes, etc.

People like Polaks and Croatians are Germanized, and Latinized. It's not a simple aspect of East vs. West. or North vs. South, but more in terms of specifics. When Johnny was talking about that mafia gene, he wasn't kidding. Some Arabs and Persians/Afghans have it, some South Americans have it, some Turks and Gypsies have it, and even some Chinese and japanese people have it. Why? Why don't Native Americans, Anglo-saxons or Germanics, Scandinavians or Africans have it? This is more of an anthropological/genealogical discussion. It's as if we came from two different planets or something.

Also, Georgians, Armenians and Chechens have played a big part of the Russian mafia's history, but while Georgians and Armenians are also Eastern Orthodox Christians, their alphabets are not Cyrillic, and while the Chechen alphabet is currently Cyrillic(historically Arabic script or whatever), they are Muslims. We also see some of the world's biggest criminals, gangsters and drug smugglers, both modern and historically, like the Chechens, Albanians, Turks and Arabs, are historically and currently Muslim. Arabs were traders and merchants, Albanians were heroin smugglers, Turks were bandits and Chechens always wanted to blow shit up. Why is that? Is it because of the Ottoman empire or because of the Russian empire? Who is responsible? Sicily and Calabria, for example, share more in common with Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia than they ever could with northern Italy. Why is that?

DutchGangster69 wrote:I've watched documentaries following real Russian gangsters and they know theres more money in legitimate business then selling drugs, prostitution or other crimes.


Damn right. Drugs, prostitution and other crimes may be profitable, but they are profitable for a select few, and they're repetitive. They're not innovative. The art of using drugs will always be the same, the art of getting a blowjob for money will always be the same, as long as humans are the way they are now, but how you prevent this from happening is more of a science than an art. The science of cock blocking, for example, or the science of denying criminals from using dirty money. What happens if all of a sudden, there are sensors all over powerful enough to detect any type of human activity? They serve as an early warning detection system, not a prevention or enforcement system. They let the people who enforce know so they can go there and enforce or prevent or whatever. GPS helps the sensors tell law enforcement where the crime is being committed, and automatic closing doors that seal you in(a byproduct of monopolizing technology, like trying to find an apartment in Canada without round door knobs or how you can only buy liquor at the LCBO, or trying to find organic, tasty, yet extremely cheap fruits and vegetables in US cities, or hell even meat with taste. It's these regulations, strictly enforced, that tell you what you should use to fertilize your soil with, which types of seeds are allowed and not allowed, what to feed your livestock, etc.

The next thing you know hacking becomes the most profitable and widespread criminal activity. No longer is social or psychological prowess required for somebody to be an efficient criminal. Look at leaders 50 years ago, look at leaders 500 years ago, look at leaders 5000 years ago and look at leaders today. Leaders back in the day used to have to be charismatic to become leaders. Nowadays all they need is the right connections and qualifications. There is nothing charming about Bush, Obama, Putin, Merkel, or whatever. Putin, whom you'd think is charming, is actually boring. He has no charm, he just has intelligence and quick with, not even a way with words. Branko Crvenkovski is charming and has a way with words, and has intelligence, but his fault lies in that that he was the leader of a powerless country. Imagine if the same guy(given that you can find a nice, long interview with him with subtitles you can understand), was the leader of the US or Russia, with his mind and his charm. The world would be a very different place.

Hacking, technological prowess... What you'd need to pull or transfer virtual money out of RFID chips or bank cards...after paper or polymer bills become obsolete and everything is digitized. This is a world I fear, not because I'm a criminal, but because I know what it means for freedom. As an upstanding and decent, hard working citizen I'll always be pro Communism since it guarantees everybody the right to work, have free healthcare, housing and higher education, how a utopia should be, and all of this defeats the purpose of acts of criminality, for profit or respect or whatever. If I was a criminal, then hell yes I'd choose to live in a Capitalist society, since there would be laws in place that I can abuse when I'm finally arrested and put to trial since these are the same laws that protect industrialists, slavers, merchants/businessmen, rich and powerful of all types with legitimate businesses. The same laws will protect me, a criminal, since Capitalism - as a farce that guarantees everybody an opportunity to get rich when there is always an 80-20 gap, an illusion that you can get rich when the very fundamentals of Capitalism prohibits everybody from being rich - there is no way, other than technological innovation, that you can guarantee everybody becomes rich. Somebody has to make somebody else rich, kind of like when somebody works and somebody doesn't work in Communism but both people get paid equally. Both are illusions, in a sense, but only Communism is effective for collective, human survival. Capitalism is just to fuel personal greed until you die and that's it. It's a game, a show, an illusion, a system, a cycle. So in essence, Capitalism has somebody else making you rich while Communism has everybody making the group or country rich. The laws in Capitalism are there to advantage the rich, not the poor. They give workers minimal rights and protections from exploitation, but you're still a slave because you're given countless meaningless choices, kind of like what George Carlin said - 28 flavours of iced cream.

Legitimate business is based off the idea to get an illegitimate business all of a sudden go from being high risk to low risk. This is the idea behind money laundering. It is first and foremost designed to help keep your illegally gained money - while making legitimate money is a secondary activity. Why? Because investing illegal money in a legal business is useless if the IRS finds out that your legal business was funded through illegal money - it still makes it an illegal business and they will seize your business and assets anyways. The only thing money laundering protects is that pile of cash you drive around in your car at the end of a long, busy and profitable day hustling out on the street and you run into a speed trap and he decides to search your car, finds the cash and since you can't prove it was legally made, he seizes it and you never see it again. Like that - poof - in an instant. Now money laundering on the other hand - just abuses the judicial process in Capitalist countries. When you get a traffic ticket - you have the option to take it to court and sometimes this takes months, because there are thousands of other poor assholes like you who want to take the same ticket to court or don't have the funds to cough it up right away and know for a fact that the system is clogged with crimes and charges that need to be looked at, one by one. That's how your legal justice system works in any Western country, any "democracy". So a murder or rape trial could be prolonged for 2, 3, 4, 5 years even. The guy could be out on bail, and of course, whoever is rich can pay 10 million dollars bail, and that will benefit the country and they will let him go, since that is money that goes towards the system, since it's a money making machine. It's not just about solving crimes and being a hero anymore - it's a money making machine. In Ontario, Canada, if you have a car accident, like say you hit into a tree, and the cops come there, even if you are injured, or if it wasn't your fault, they will still give you a careless driving ticket, which averages around 500 Canadian dollars, because they don't know what else to charge you with(even though they don't have to, they might use an excuse as you should've been more careful, that's why it's careless driving, this is to punish you and make sure you don't do it again, when in reality they're just being money grubbing assholes). Ontario gets cold at winter, snow falls, and hundreds of accidents occur in the first couple of days in snow fall. Imagine all those 500 dollar tickets, all that insurance going up, all that money that can be made from all these accidents.

So court dates only prolong the process. That's similar to how money laundering works. It buries your dirty money in legitimate business, and the bureaucracy that surrounds it. You invest 5 million dollars in real estate - dirty money - build a couple of small apartment buildings, and you get a return on your profit when people buy your apartments/condos/whatever. You create false invoices, false documentation, this and that, regarding how you obtained the money, it gets laundered and buried in a shitload of paperwork which according to law will have to be looked through page by page until you find something that uncovers illicit activities, and this could mean looking through 100,000 pages worth of information. If the FBi suspected you were stealing or selling drugs or whatever and making a hefty profit, if they begin an investigation and start following you around, and then see you have a business, and oh look it's registered with the IRS and everything is fine, but is it, really? An agent has a hunch, a gut feeling, something's not right here, but how does he prove it? Anybody that has a business you see outside could actually be hiding dirty money. It could be your barber, your local iced cream shop parlour, a supermarket, a casino, a gym, whatever, you'll never know because they're all smiles. How would you know where to look? So by the time somebody even suspects, it could take years, maybe even decades. And finally when they do find out or suspects it, and they begin to investigate, that could also take years. And finally enough evidence to arrest or indict - even more years until the process finally starts. That's why you have organized crime figures who get tried at the age of 60 when they have been doing what they're doing since they were 20. By the time they get imprisoned they're 74, they don't care about freedom as much as they used to. To some of them, they might be regretful that they can't spend the last moments of their lives with their families and grandkids, but to some it's like a free retirement home - the prison. And imagine this - if the person with the illegitimate money in the legitimate business was actually a benefactor of the police! They would be so grateful for the donations, it would be the last person that they would suspect that they are actually investigating/chasing after all those years, kind of like in Breaking Bad.

MMRbkaRudog
Super Heavy Weight
Super Heavy Weight
Posts: 3520
Joined: April 4th, 2004, 6:07 pm
Country: United States
If in the United States: California
What city do you live in now?: SJ
Location: WWW

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » February 8th, 2015, 10:11 am

A hells angel would have to go to a country where there are no hells angels in the first place. You may be right about it not working out in those places, but that is a product of America. What you are talking about isn't a product of the west originally, but did spread here and anyone can get into organized crime. I don't think it's so much genes, but more other things brought up. I don't see how some stuff added to the topic, but obviously this type of crime is more of a problem in certain areas for whatever reason.

User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » February 9th, 2015, 11:43 pm

MMRbkaRudog wrote:A hells angel would have to go to a country where there are no hells angels in the first place. You may be right about it not working out in those places, but that is a product of America. What you are talking about isn't a product of the west originally, but did spread here and anyone can get into organized crime. I don't think it's so much genes, but more other things brought up. I don't see how some stuff added to the topic, but obviously this type of crime is more of a problem in certain areas for whatever reason.


Why would a Hells Angels go to a place where there are no Hells Angels? Obviously you meant for him to start a chapter, but what I meant is that the biker culture, especially outlaw biker culture, together with the street gang culture, cannot exist in countries like Macedonia, Kosovo, Russia, Albania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia or Montenegro that are heavily under the influence of organized crime. When people think of 'criminal' in these countries, they either think the well dressed, intelligent mobster who drives a luxury car and wears lots of gold jewelry, who has legitimate businesses including nightclubs to cover his illegal activities, similar to Robert Davi's character in Game of Death, like they automatically think of a street gang member in the US who dresses like a rapper, or they think of the annoying, wasp like tattoo'd type who looks more like a skeleton than a man, similar to the character played by Karel Roden in 15 Minutes. These are places, and some more than others, where a street gang culture cannot survive, let alone a biker culture. You know why? The mafia has a grip so strong on the country that it's impossible for any other group other than another mafia or even a terrorist group under the guise of organized crime to penetrate society, it's as simple as that. They have all holes plugged so there's absolutely no leakage. A British Al Jazeera journalist did a report on organized crime in Bulgaria and when he spoke to the then mayor and ex bodyguard of the president, current ex prime minister Boyko Borissov, you know what he said? There is nobody that's powerful enough to take down the crime bosses in his country other than foreign intelligence and policing agencies.



The Hells Angels flourishes in the US, Canada and Western Europe because of how American and European society is structured nowadays. The Hells Angels are free to look like the goons they are, dress like bikers, get tattoo's, buy the bikes, everything, and go to bars, where their culture is presented. It was this freedom in America and Europe - letting people who are considered sick in the head in Eastern cultures to be free to practice their biker culture, because there are roads for them to drive on first and most, and then again there is no other group that would look scarier, for example, and are as public as them, other than street gangs. But most Hells Angels members, and I know some personally, they're big motherfuckers, physically. Most gang members are scrawny and short. This goes more along the line of anthropological studies than just pure criminology. If it isn't bikers, than it's evident with some other groups at some point in history. When there's nobody else to make the bikers look like pussies or a bunch of obese, disorganized, redneck drug addicts, the bikers are considered the prime tough guys.

It's true what you say, that anybody can get into organized crime, and I mean that by anywhere, this is why I mentioned that 'mafia gene' being present in South America, the Middle East, the Balkans, ex USSR and China/Japan. But even though you want to avoid calling it the mafia gene because JohnnyRed coined the term and everybody jumped in to make his idea seem ridiculous, I believe there's genetic predispositions in people to make them behave the way they do, it's not just environmental stimuli. I, myself, grew up in a nice family, both parents are hardworking people, and I was taught to respect my cousins and they were taught the same, yet I've always been more attracted to my criminal cousins and uncles. Why is this? I want to hang out with them more, even if I realize some of the people in my family who are hardworking people are way more decent and would serve you with a way better conversation or debate that's intellectually, spiritually and emotionally stimulating than anyone of the criminal cousins could, but why? I'm no saint, but I still consider myself a good guy. Even though I've tried to stay out of trouble, I haven't been spared from it completely and for some reason this gives meaning to my life. If you were reading this, or somebody who has a neutral stance, who lived his life normally, who was taught moderation and had no criminal family members, they would probably think to themselves this man is a psychopath, garbage. But that's the last thing I consider myself. There's always a thin red line between what's considered insanity and what's considered genius. I know I can be a scientist, but my parents could never afford to send me to school and neither could I, so I had to take budget courses just to get a diploma and try to prevent myself from falling into the gutter of minimum wage jobs since we were already in debt, student loans were against my beliefs of this American society that is only designed to fuck a poor man up the ass until he dies. But yet, I was more attracted to hanging out with criminals? Why? It gave me a sense of purpose and made an otherwise colorless average world filled with color. Why? Psychologically speaking, it was because I knew I couldn't fulfill my need or want to contribute to society in a different way, set myself apart, be praised, be unique, be special and invent a bunch of shit. But I never fell into it completely, and never will. This is the mafia gene I'm talking about. It's the reason I keep coming back to these forums to discuss the subject is because it interests me. Who else can say that they've been around some pretty big players, and that it was actually epic? We like to lie to ourselves that the underworld is a savage, colorless, tasteless, ruthless place that has no artistic, aesthetic or spiritually purifying(but tainting) value. But ask yourself, how many American cities has organized crime helped build? New York, Chicago, Toronto(from the bootlegging), Miami(from the cocaine), Las Vegas(Bugsy's idea), etc.

Also, how is it that the best nightclubs always belong to gangsters?

I'm telling you, genealogy is a strange thing, and I guarantee you there's a strain that's not cultural but genetic, a type of DNA maybe, that is linked to thinking the way a gangster does. Since....Italian and Japanese cultures never intermingled, nor the people, for thousands of years, yet, the mob plays a part in both Italian culture and history similar to the Yakuza and their samurai roots in Japan. How is this possible if the mafia gene doesn't exist? It's not a byproduct of Western culture, that's true, but it's not a byproduct of just any single culture or region. It makes you wonder why.

As far as anybody getting into organized crime in the West, while it's possible yes, all you need is the knowledge and a couple of people at your disposal, so not even a large group - 20 people are more than capable of making 20-30 million dollars a year just from heists or credit card fraud alone, let alone if these 20 people were highly educated, quick thinking, extremely physically fit, trained in the way of martial arts and the military and techniques and tricks used by intelligence agencies - and this would be dangerous if it was without technological knowledge like hacking too - wanted to take over the drug dealing in an area. They could do it without ever having to show their faces to the fiends if they played their cards right. But in reality, Western culture is the opposite of any culture where organized crime is prevalent, and I have a feeling that's actually like that on purpose, no matter how ridiculous that might be. Imagine dressed like a gangster walking around your suburbs, in the 21st century people don't run, duck and hide or stare at you in amazement or fear or confusion - they laugh at you because they think they see through the charade, or that you're ridiculous and silly for even trying to look like a guy from the movies. The reality is real gangsters are inbred. This is why the son of a mafia boss has the highest chance of also becoming the next boss of the same organization, even if his father tried to steer him right. Real gangsters need to spend hundreds of hours around other real gangsters, only to be able to absorb, adapt and start implementing any mannerisms, way of talking or way of thinking that they've taken from the other gangsters. Once that happens, it's hard to forget or stop thinking like a mobster. Your mind becomes abstract, you become creative instead of logical, you prefer fun over work, and you find yourself having problems keeping a job or even finding friends among normal people, and you start to feel irritated or insulted when normal people try to give you attitude, stare at you, muscle you around or provoke you, because you know it's not worth killing somebody even though you know it's extremely possible. It's even harder when you've quit the life and are trying to adapt. It was only a couple years ago you had a hot blonde girl and a hot black girl sniff cocaine off your dick while you were smoking a cigar, drinking whisky, with money and guns on the table, in a stripclub you or one of your associates owned, and now some slimey skater punk who is 24 yet still in his teenage rebel phase, not sure if he's emo, a redneck or just a little bitch, loudmouth you and try to teach you some pathetic job in a supermarket.

This is the mafia gene. It's fighting your own nature, it's what you could've done that drives you away from the life but what you can do that pulls you back. "If I had enough money, I can open up a legitimate business and actually start researching whatever I want to research and then help the world, but how do I get around to that other than illegally in American society? What's the quickest and easiest way? If doing illegal stuff is a gamble, it's like playing chess. You still could have a slip of mind and your opponent could make a better move, so luck isn't a factor that controls your outcome as much as what move you pick consciously knowing it will produce the end results. Relying on sponsors, billionaires who want to make you their apprentice, on the other hand, is like playing Mega Millions." "I justify doing this because I know this society was founded on the blood and sweat of tens of millions of people and when I get caught, I won't put my head down as I'm shamed by these self proclaimed moralists and judges to accept the punishment for my crimes but I will see myself as getting captured by the enemy. There's no other way of looking at it without being delusional. Morality is irrelevant in this situation when both sides are equally sinners. If the judge was in my position he would do the same, and if I was in his I would do the same. If the Nazi's won the war, then the Russians and Americans would've been the bad guys and it would've been Stalin, Zukov, Churchill, Patton, Truman/Roosevelt or whatever undergoing trial for war crimes, a Nurmberg trials type war crimes tribunal instead of the Nazi's. How come so many Nazi senior officers and scientists were able to come live prosperously in the US if just the Nazi's as a whole were an evil group and not indviduals?"

You see what I mean?

Think outside of the box and you'll figure out why I put everything there, I didn't just add it randomly. You decided to reply since you knew you wouldn't be talking to a rambling lunatic but somebody educated who knows what he's talking about. :DOn my philosophical stance, I believe everything happens for a reason. People like Walt from Breaking Bad who believe the universe is a random sequence of events that are unrelated to eachother just decided to use what they think is a rationally impervious argument to deny the reality that is the universe and it's creation and it's purpose and our purpose, since minds like that are smart enough to figure out and know the truth, but too weak to handle it, so they have to invent reasons as to why not instead of figuring out the why. Same with what I wrote, everything is connected, just try to look at it through different perspectives. It's not how my mind works - I'm a product of my environment, both good and bad and reversed and rewritten and reprogrammed again and again and again - so it reflects what everybody else sees as the world around themselves, not just what I see. I learn the best from others - not from myself.

As far for whatever reason, it might just be that there are more educated people amongst the poor in the East than there are amongst the people in the West. It might be a reason other than "if they were so smart, they could fix their country" when attempting to deny that national IQ scores might just be BS. For one, people in the Republic of Macedonia study 10x as much material throughout their lives in elementary and high school and university than people in the West, this is a guarantee. Where in the US they only teach about the US history, in Macedonia they learn about every country in the world, including their political systems, currency, economics, central banks, major cities, where there's rivers and mountains, how many people live in each village, etc. alot of stuff Western educational systems see as redundant to teach kids. Try that, along with a different more lively and social culture than in the west, study that much, debate with passion, study hard to become somebody and then go off to graduate and have a diploma that means nothing. Meanwhile, somebody is smuggling several tons of drugs a month through a country that is the size of a major American city, and he happens to be related to you or your friend. Why wouldn't you take up on the opportunity? That's how it starts and that's how it ends.

Or it might just be genetics.

DutchGangster69
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 917
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 10:06 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Arkansas
What city do you live in now?: Toronto

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby DutchGangster69 » February 11th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Mafia have to show discipline and show no fear. I wouldn't say its genes but more personality traits. Most of these guys end up in jail or dead and the few who make the most money actually are constantly being harassed by government or members of their group. Its not a great lifestyle but the ones that have what it takes are going to join for the perks like wads of cash and the highs of the lifestyle.
Look what happened to the Rizzutos in Canada they were counting their cash coming in everyday. They were disciplined held themselves high but it ended with murder.
Mafia preys on people in the way that if you don't listen to them they'll show up with several guys and threaten you. Anybody can take out a criminal but most people want to live successful productive lives with these scumbags locked up. But if they have a foothold in your areå or around you what can you do.

User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » February 12th, 2015, 6:05 am

DutchGangster69 wrote:Mafia have to show discipline and show no fear. I wouldn't say its genes but more personality traits. Most of these guys end up in jail or dead and the few who make the most money actually are constantly being harassed by government or members of their group. Its not a great lifestyle but the ones that have what it takes are going to join for the perks like wads of cash and the highs of the lifestyle.
Look what happened to the Rizzutos in Canada they were counting their cash coming in everyday. They were disciplined held themselves high but it ended with murder.
Mafia preys on people in the way that if you don't listen to them they'll show up with several guys and threaten you. Anybody can take out a criminal but most people want to live successful productive lives with these scumbags locked up. But if they have a foothold in your areå or around you what can you do.


Think about genetic memory and you'll understand why I say genes. Then, of course, environmental factors and conditioning just let these genes come into light. There's just some things you can't deny when it comes to genes. I could've grown up elsewhere, I still would have had my father's brain and it would've been obvious I wasn't the son of my adopted parents. Also, it takes many, many years for somebody to become a true gangster. Anybody can be a piece of shit, but not just anybody can do it properly. You need practice. That's where environmental conditioning plays a role. A true gangster is conscious about what he does and how he does it. In the words of a friend of mine, "I'm a criminal, my whole job revolves around psychology." It all comes down to a science. How does a normal person know how another normal person will react if he attempts rob/extort/intimidate/charm him into giving him what he wants? You need to press on people's nerves. This doesn't always come as an environmental factor. I have friends who are not even 1/10 the gangsters their fathers are/were, and I have friends...where you have no idea how everything happened the way it did.

In order to be successful, having balls is not enough, you need brains too. You need alot of heart and alot of brains. And you need to tweak them in a way that they never compete with eachother, like they do with most people. Google cognitive dissonance, and you'll see a part of the human brain that's practically non-existent or completely flexible in criminals. The everlasting battle between creativity and rationality.

You know why most of these guys end up dead or in jail? Because they're stupid, that's the only reason. There have been people that have had alot of balls, and there have been people that had lesser amounts of balls, but the ones with the many balls were the ones to get it first. They had their streak of luck and then they got killed/imprisoned. Why? Because they were naive, and they were stupid. People came and gave them advice on how to do things smart, but they never listened. They only wanted to enjoy themselves and thought that they had things figured out, and most of them didn't want to think too much because it made their brains hurt. But you'll never make it in the game if you gamble with your life and your decisions. Sometimes it's good to overthink. You'll realize that the most successful criminals are with just the right combination of balls and brains. You can't have brains and engage in organized crime but not have balls, you'll hesitate and some stupid asshole will end up killing you and everybody will mourn and say what a waste,what a shame, he could've been so much more, if only he wasn't so naive. Then there's a different type of naive, the type that does all kinds of shit without covering his tracks, the polar opposite of the former, the type of naive who usually ends up killing the smart but ballless gangster but ends up getting killed himself or imprisoned because he thought he never had to worry. Fuck that. You'll realize...that the best criminal masterminds alive today around the world, including mafia bosses, who have been in the game for over 30 years, who are soon to turn 60 years old, and who will never be caught, and will never get killed, even though they survived several attempts on their lives before, have an IQ of 160-200. They might fail an IQ test, but if you test them in other ways that proves IQ that works similar to the rational-logical-linguistic-mathematical test that the IQ test is usually designed after, you'll see that their IQ falls in the genius range. Otherwise, how would they be able to handle all the things they do, mentally? Memorizing hundreds of people, places, running 40-50 different businesses, etc. Mental toughness is also a useless trait if you're completely stupid.

The few who make the most money, believe me, harassment by the government to them is like getting threatened by a puppy. In most instances, the government is actually begging them for handouts, and the guys who are ballsy enough to try and harass them just don't have any idea who they're dealing with and it's a stupid macho man's idea of making a name for himself. Members of their group is probably the most stressful, especially when they come to disagreements or tension between their closest members. No other group is a problem if your group alone is strong, smart and you're confident in them and their abilities and you have a 100% understanding about everything that makes a group fall apart from the inside enough to have your group not fall apart from the inside.

No, you're right, it's definitely not a great lifestyle, there's too many stresses involved that make a person fall apart from the inside out, and when this happens, it's when he begins to have slips of concentration and become sloppy, especially with the people he trusts. Sometimes, you go into the game and not trusting anybody, then eventually trusting people, only to have them betray you. At other times, you go into the game trusting everybody and you learn it's not such a good idea. Sometimes you get lucky and get a chance at restarting, at other times it's fatal. You never know if your first time realizing that trusting people is not a good idea might be your last. Your criminal instinct develops, and you begin to look at the world a certain way. In psychology they call this professional deformation - looking at the world through the lens of your job or profession. A doctor looks at everybody like patients and every cough he hears he diagnoses, a lawyer looks at everybody for how they're being screwed over and how he could help them sue somebody, a salesman looks at everybody like a potential customer, a scientist looks at everything and sees it's scientific and rational value, a priest or holy man looks at all the miracles in the world and sees God in everything, etc. A criminal fucking looks around, and sees cops, sees people who are acting suspiciously aka normal people even, potential competition, always looking over his shoulder, because that part of his brain is the most worked out. In some people the trauma is greater, in others lesser. Think of war veterans and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Highs for the lifestyle...well some people knew they could be doctors, lawyers or scientists, or even politicians, they had the money, the connections and the capacity, but chose to be criminals instead, why? Maybe they like the clandestine environment, kind of like a freelance CIA agent type thing. They feel it gives them a sense of purpose and excitement.

As far as the Rizzutos go, that's what happens when you let things slide. The Rizzutos were powerful and should've kept their power when they had the chance. There's only a few opportunities in life that are major turning points or moments that decide the fate of everything and everybody, and most people let all of them pass by. The Rizzutos had Montreal by the balls, but they let the Bikers be full of shit. That was their mistake. They let a bunch of biker gangs and street gangs form alliance. Once you let something as low as a street gang deal you a low blow, an embarrassing endeavor, you lose respect permanently. Street gangs were always looking to outgun and outsmart the mafia, but they were never able to. Why? Because the mafia is the mafia, and the street gangs are the street gangs, for a reason, otherwise it would be the other way around. But when a bunch of Blood members manage to kill Rizzuot's son or nephew or whatever, oh God, you get copycat killings all over North America. If the Canadians could do it, then so can the Americans, why the hell not? In the 21st century, you saw street gangs from NYC forming alliances and business partnerships with the members of the 5 families anyways...soo..

With gangs, they scream "arrest me". Mafia avoids that. You know why? Gangs care too much about social/street recognition, but the mafia could care less. When you know you have the world by the balls, you could care less what people think of you. I know some mafia guys, they dress horribly, some of them even dress like bikers sometimes, but they drive BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche's, Audi's, have private planes, restaurants, hotels, factories, real estate companies, they own entire blocks in cities. Some of them are short, fat, ugly, have an ugly haircut, you'll be like what the fuck, they have a stupid tattoo, but they are still bosses. They still make millions. Why? They could care less, that's why. They could care less if people think that some other boss is bigger than them, they could care less who the kids worship, because they KNOW what they're capable of and what the other guy being gossiped about is actually worth compared to them.

Street gangs arise in North America out of the need for young kids to show off and be alpha male. Mafia, on the other hand, is the real deal. And then there's different mafia cultures. I like how the Russians do business. They offer you a wonderful opportunity and if you deny, they'll kill everybody and they actually succeed at it each time because they're realistic, they don't dwell on what ifs and mythology, they know that nobody is invincible. They know that Obama is just another human being with a bunch of bodyguards, they won't blink their eyes at the idea of accomplishing to assassinate him, there was others before him and others will come after him. They're realistic. Look at how powerful the Russian mafia is in Toronto, but who has actually met a Russian gangster in Toronto? They literally have more than half the escort agencies by the balls and there's rarely any crackdowns against them. They make the Italians look like pussies, and the Chinese look uncertain of their future. They eclipse the Italians in Florida. There's 20x more Russian gangsters in America than there are Italian.

To be honest, depending on yourself and what you consider to be wads of cash, you can actually make alot of money if you have a small clique(7-8 people max) and are what's traditionally considered the street gang culture. You can make millions a year, if you played your cards right, and not be considered organized crime, because of your swagger. But then again, the mafia, I can't stress it enough, hard to find people like the mafia, but once you do, the opportunities suddenly multiply x100 because you finally have people who don't feel a need to get laid three times a day, show off, do cocaine and smoke weed all day, who won't cringe at the idea of opening up a business for money laundering because it's too much work to them.

That's exactly how it goes down, but it doesn't pray on just anybody. There's plenty of mob bosses or gangsters who will tell you that they never prayed on decent, hardworking people. I know that's hard to believe, but it's actually true. Because other than a gangster having a human side, I mean he's probably suffered in life, if he was pampered, why would he be doing this? Spoiled suburban kids don't end up being thick skinned criminals. Life's struggle/battle makes them the way they are, like you want to say it's not genetics. They want to do something good, and praying on a hardworking person is not a good way to start. Hardworking people are risky to invest in. For one, they deny the reality of the danger they are in if a group comes to threaten them, and thus, are more likely to get involved with the authorities. It would be pointless for a group to be in an area where everybody calls the cops. Sure, they might end up breaking some heads, killing some store owners, and getting away, but in the end, if everybody insists on it, or they form a civilian community organization, or begin protesting against the mafia, like people do in Mexico for example, then....it's pointless for them. They just move to another area. This is why the mafia prays on people in the city and not in rural areas. Imagine the Italian or Russian mafia trying to muscle in on protection money from a rural backwoods Louisana or Alabama town or something. You would end up having a standoff instead of a business arrangement.

The mafia prays on people that they know are already dirty. This is a good strategy since the people who are dirty can't go to the cops and ask for help since they would be setting themselves up equally as ratting the racketeers out. So if somebody is dirty = open season. Because imagine what a person that was raised in a good family has to go through to be a scumbag that has a dirty business, he's very conscious of what he's doing and he's done it many times before. Good people just don't become criminals overnight. It takes time. And there's plenty of dirty businesses around big American, Canadian and European cities, believe me. It could've began as a small clique part of some local street gang doing all kinds of shit, and now all of them are at the age of 30 and have their own business. And then the big players come and try to extort them, and because these small street guys did so much in their youth, they have a dirty conscience, even damaged mentally, so they are more prone to being paranoid and acting drastically, either going against them or giving in. When they go against them, this is an invitation for the mafia to just make an example of them, and the mafia loves it, because the business owners' friends acted out aggressively and the mafia were the ones who acted out in self defense.

The fact that...normal people, get caught in between, is a result of leakage. They're either in the wrong place at the wrong time, unaware of where they are and around who, or just unlucky. Even in countries where the mafia owns the country, and people know what it's like running into these bald headed enormous motherfuckers, simply because they were drunk and looking for a fight, and then it gets out of hand. That's emotional leakage. It has nothing to do with the nature of their business. They were pissed off about something, and decided to take it out on a family. Otherwise, I know guys like that, the last thing in their list of things to do is to make the public their enemy. I mean, they're stupid, they're ugly, they're scary, they possess no charm, the only thing they have going for them is their epic, Spartan look. Who is going to want to befriend them? Who needs to associate with people like that, really? They're just misunderstood giants, most of the time.

User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » February 12th, 2015, 6:13 am

And when I say they could care less, and about how ridiculous some of them look, think about how many virtually retarded characters you were introduced to in that scene in the beginning of Goodfellas where he's walking through the restaurant and naming everybody, "Jimmy Two-Times", "Frankie Carbone", etc.

And then think about Dick Tracy. Somebody, even back in the day, realized how cartoony and surreal some of the mafia guys were and decided to use his imagination and created an entire comic book series which later became a movie.

Faciulina
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1177
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 3:29 pm

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Faciulina » April 12th, 2015, 7:41 am

lol where you find these numbers? i doubt russian mafia has 40.000 members in the states, i barely listen about them, if they were so much we would listen more about them, it's not the 50s anymore when hoover said the italian mafia didn't exist. today the fbi will stop every form of organized crime before it would become a threat
italian mafia is by far stronger than russians both in europe, united states, canada and australia
italian mafia is by far the strongest worldwide with about 300.000 members and associates, not 70.000 as the source claims

User avatar
Dobre
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1443
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 4:17 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Guam
What city do you live in now?: Tokyo

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Dobre » May 17th, 2015, 1:03 am

Faciulina wrote:lol where you find these numbers? i doubt russian mafia has 40.000 members in the states, i barely listen about them, if they were so much we would listen more about them, it's not the 50s anymore when hoover said the italian mafia didn't exist. today the fbi will stop every form of organized crime before it would become a threat
italian mafia is by far stronger than russians both in europe, united states, canada and australia
italian mafia is by far the strongest worldwide with about 300.000 members and associates, not 70.000 as the source claims


I'm not sure what the source is, but I think it's the US Department of Defense. 40,000 in the US seems very feasible, but I highly doubt there's 70,000 Russian mafia members in Italy. 40,000 members doesn't mean constant arrests and indictments. The Russians do business very differently than the Italians do, especially in the US and Canada. Everybody is doing their own thing nowadays, it's not like the 20's-60's when the Italians had so much manpower and influence in the US that they could literally run anybody out, things are changing, people don't clash over turf anymore. Most of the Russians' income in the US and Canada comes from shit like fraud, arms trafficking, prostitution, drug trafficking.. The markets are so large that so many people have their hands in them and people already have realized how bad it is for profits to be at war over turf. Even junkies are reselling the product they buy when they're not using or when they need more money to buy more product. Should these junkies get shot too because they're doing the dealing and not the Italians lol?

As far as Europe goes, the only place where the Italians hold ground nowadays is in Italy. The Russians run Spain, the Canary Islands, Germany, France, the UK, Austria, Switzerland.. The Albanians run the drug trafficking and prostitution in some of these places, especially Germany, France, the UK, Austria and Switzerland..

And then the Turks in Germany and the Turks and Kurds in the UK and the Arabs in France run the distribution end of things...

70 percent of prostitutes in Belgium are Bulgarian, and for a Bulgarian prostitute to stray that far away from home means that you need somebody close to the mentality to bring you there, and you either end up in the hands of Bulgaria, Serbian, Albanian or Russian gangs, not Italians..

As far as the US, manpower doesn't mean control or monopoly, don't get that mixed up. Everybody is doing their own thing and if there's 40,000 Russian gangsters in the US, that doesn't mean all of them are under an umbrella organization like the Gambinos or other families.. There could be hundreds of cells or gangs that house these 40,000 Russian gangsters, and alot of them could be doing what they've been doing for 20 years without firing a single shot.

Faciulina
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1177
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 3:29 pm

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby Faciulina » June 9th, 2015, 7:35 am

Dobre wrote:I'm not sure what the source is, but I think it's the US Department of Defense. 40,000 in the US seems very feasible, but I highly doubt there's 70,000 Russian mafia members in Italy. 40,000 members doesn't mean constant arrests and indictments. The Russians do business very differently than the Italians do, especially in the US and Canada. Everybody is doing their own thing nowadays, it's not like the 20's-60's when the Italians had so much manpower and influence in the US that they could literally run anybody out, things are changing, people don't clash over turf anymore. Most of the Russians' income in the US and Canada comes from shit like fraud, arms trafficking, prostitution, drug trafficking.. The markets are so large that so many people have their hands in them and people already have realized how bad it is for profits to be at war over turf. Even junkies are reselling the product they buy when they're not using or when they need more money to buy more product. Should these junkies get shot too because they're doing the dealing and not the Italians lol?

As far as Europe goes, the only place where the Italians hold ground nowadays is in Italy. The Russians run Spain, the Canary Islands, Germany, France, the UK, Austria, Switzerland.. The Albanians run the drug trafficking and prostitution in some of these places, especially Germany, France, the UK, Austria and Switzerland..

And then the Turks in Germany and the Turks and Kurds in the UK and the Arabs in France run the distribution end of things...

70 percent of prostitutes in Belgium are Bulgarian, and for a Bulgarian prostitute to stray that far away from home means that you need somebody close to the mentality to bring you there, and you either end up in the hands of Bulgaria, Serbian, Albanian or Russian gangs, not Italians..

As far as the US, manpower doesn't mean control or monopoly, don't get that mixed up. Everybody is doing their own thing and if there's 40,000 Russian gangsters in the US, that doesn't mean all of them are under an umbrella organization like the Gambinos or other families.. There could be hundreds of cells or gangs that house these 40,000 Russian gangsters, and alot of them could be doing what they've been doing for 20 years without firing a single shot.


your numbers and sources are totally wrong, you just want to hype russian mafia or balkan oc because you are from there and i undestand you would downsize italian power... but in europe italian mafia run most of cocaine that is the most lucrative drug and it is in several country germany, belgium, holland, switzerland, france, greece, spain, portugal, uk, balkans and even eastern europe... italian mafia litterally run europe
italian mafia run montenegro and albania... albanians are puppets in italian hands, they do what italians order them they work as mules for italians
russians run nothing they are not even involved in drugs how can run germany or other places? italian mafia is by far more powerful than russians in europe, united states, canada and australia
ndrangheta alone is stronger than the whole russian mafia or any balkan oc
and honestly you are not believable at all you said there were 70.000 russian gangsters in italy lol russian mafia doesn't exist in italy you are just an idiot fanboy who thinks russians run everything when they are just chickenthieves
most of russians, georgians or other ex soviet union gangs in europe are involved in petty crimes
italian mafia earns 200 billions euros a year, it could buy an eastern europe country in cash... its earnings are higher than eastern europe or balkan GDP
italian mafia is the most powerful richest and most widespread and most violent criminal group in the world

DutchGangster69
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 917
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 10:06 pm
Country: Canada
If in the United States: Arkansas
What city do you live in now?: Toronto

Re: Some quick facts on the Russian mafia

Unread postby DutchGangster69 » June 13th, 2015, 8:49 pm

Faculina does have a point> I never hear of russian mafia in Canada only Italian mafia and some random asian drug busts.


Return to “Europe (Eastern)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests