L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

The Midwest for the pupose of this forum will be defined as the following States; Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, South Dakota, Wisconsin
Post Reply
blackmanofhonor
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1690
Joined: December 25th, 2004, 10:40 am
Location: Mil town,WIS

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by blackmanofhonor » February 10th, 2005, 12:13 pm

not bitching,just correcting these children.Since they seem to think Im from the country,Im trying to let these fools know Im from the city.the purpose of this site is to discuss things,which is what im doing.Watch that ''bitch'' shit ''bro''.

blackmanofhonor
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1690
Joined: December 25th, 2004, 10:40 am
Location: Mil town,WIS

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by blackmanofhonor » February 10th, 2005, 12:14 pm

I posted those facts so maybe kids like rollin can understand that there are cities and ghettos everywhere.Im not bragging about my city,just lettin peeps know how it is out here.

blackmanofhonor
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1690
Joined: December 25th, 2004, 10:40 am
Location: Mil town,WIS

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by blackmanofhonor » February 10th, 2005, 12:35 pm

I respect homies like Lonewolf and Ruthless because they seem mature and adultlike.I enjoy having conversations with peeps from diffrent places,and hearing about how things are in thier towns/cities.Thats what this forum is for.Im not bragging on my cities crime rate,that would be foolish,since its mostly black and latino people that are dying on the streets.Its just that when people assume that its a country town inhabited by farmers,naturally Im going to let them know its not like that out here.Just like if i said LA was a farm town filled with hillbillies,you all would look at me like I was a fool.Its the same thing when you all call my city a hick town,its just silly.

FLUID
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 455
Joined: March 7th, 2004, 6:27 pm
Location: ROCKTOWN,IL

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by FLUID » February 10th, 2005, 2:19 pm

blackmanofhonor wrote:
FLUID wrote:
blackmanofhonor wrote:people are too ignorant/child like to discuss topics like this.Im finished with this topic.


You ain't gotta get mad. Different shit probably go on in Milwaukee.


Im not gettin mad homie.Its just some of these people from cali are so ignorant,you cant have a rational talk with them.They seem to think LA is the biggest baddest place on earth,and everywhere else is a country town.Its like chatting with a bunch of children instead of adults.


Yeah I hear you. It's all good.

Rollin_inmy_SixFo
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 556
Joined: January 29th, 2004, 2:49 pm
Location: LA

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » February 10th, 2005, 9:43 pm

blackmanofhonor wrote:I posted those facts so maybe kids like rollin can understand that there are cities and ghettos everywhere.Im not bragging about my city,just lettin peeps know how it is out here.


That's right huh, The FONZ is from Milwaukee. that's gangsta!

AAAAAAAAAAAA!

User avatar
purplecityhello
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1851
Joined: October 7th, 2004, 10:51 am
Location: Harlem World aka Purple City
Contact:

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by purplecityhello » April 7th, 2005, 2:01 pm

I gotta say LA had it.some gang war went down where 60 people died in 3 days - if thats not sayin sumtin i dont know what is

User avatar
Nik
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 234
Joined: February 8th, 2004, 12:31 am
Location: Sagnasty-In The Land Of 5

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Nik » April 13th, 2005, 4:09 pm

GTS wrote:Bro u seem to be the one bitchin about how hard your town is. There's ghetto's everywhere, only change is the way they bang and there slang.
Real shit.

User avatar
MICK
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1666
Joined: February 10th, 2004, 3:57 pm
Location: any bar in Chicago.

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by MICK » April 28th, 2005, 7:55 pm

Chicago's gangs are tighter knit. Id say LA and CHI's gangs are equaly aggressive and violent. Its just colder here.

User avatar
rocstar
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 866
Joined: November 30th, 2003, 4:22 am
Location: Southern Cali

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by rocstar » May 1st, 2005, 12:57 am

Just on "gang related murders", LA is entirely by itself, thats the reason Crips and Bloods get more national attention than everyone else, they took the violence to another level, everyone else followed

User avatar
rocstar
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 866
Joined: November 30th, 2003, 4:22 am
Location: Southern Cali

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by rocstar » May 1st, 2005, 12:59 am

But Chicago and LA is just alike in how devastating the gang culture is those cities

User avatar
MICK
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1666
Joined: February 10th, 2004, 3:57 pm
Location: any bar in Chicago.

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by MICK » May 1st, 2005, 10:22 am

rocstar wrote:Just on "gang related murders", LA is entirely by itself, thats the reason Crips and Bloods get more national attention than everyone else, they took the violence to another level, everyone else followed


Chicago didnt follow anybody brother. There arent crips or bloods here. We have our own gangs. Our gangs have been here for a LONG time, we arent following anybody. The only reason crips and bloods are covered in the media is because your in California. The media capital.
Arnold Shwartzaneger blows his nose and the rest of us will hear about it.
California's news is always heard in every state.
You'se guys have Hollywood. And LA is the media capital of America.

User avatar
MICK
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1666
Joined: February 10th, 2004, 3:57 pm
Location: any bar in Chicago.

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by MICK » May 1st, 2005, 10:22 am

Theres gang murders EVERYWHERE, the media just amplifies it.

User avatar
rocstar
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 866
Joined: November 30th, 2003, 4:22 am
Location: Southern Cali

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by rocstar » May 1st, 2005, 10:51 pm

MICK wrote:
rocstar wrote:Just on "gang related murders", LA is entirely by itself, thats the reason Crips and Bloods get more national attention than everyone else, they took the violence to another level, everyone else followed


Chicago didnt follow anybody brother. There arent crips or bloods here. We have our own gangs. Our gangs have been here for a LONG time, we arent following anybody. The only reason crips and bloods are covered in the media is because your in California. The media capital.
Arnold Shwartzaneger blows his nose and the rest of us will hear about it.
California's news is always heard in every state.
You'se guys have Hollywood. And LA is the media capital of America.


I didnt mean Chicago or any other place for that matter followed LA in terms of Crips and Bloods, I aint into the whos tougher or were better shit thats ignorant. LA is the first place that the violence reached the type of levels that are common now. Not that Chi or anywhere else hadnt already been banging, then actual LA gang members started going throughout the country tearing up shit and the locals started emulating. It was already gangs in LA before the bloods and crips and they never got national exposure, the main reason is because the level of violence that was brought to the game and how it was affecting gang members and non gang members alike

User avatar
MICK
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1666
Joined: February 10th, 2004, 3:57 pm
Location: any bar in Chicago.

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by MICK » May 1st, 2005, 10:55 pm

I hear ya brother, but keep in mind that Chi's gangs have been commiting
PLENTY of murders before crips and bloods were well known. The media is just more alive in LA than it is here. But I understand what you are saying.

Quickdraw
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 178
Joined: September 20th, 2004, 3:42 pm
Location: Chi-town Bred

Unread post by Quickdraw » January 20th, 2006, 6:29 pm

Well the CHI gangs would bring the crazy ass Puerto Ricans niggas with them if it was LA VS CHI. And I dunno if LA knows how they get down or seen them motherfuckers before. We've seen Mexicans, blacks, Asians, Assyrians, whites, Ricans you name it over here, nothing would really surprise us. And they not gonna be on that black vs mexican shit all the way so the CHI gangs would smash on LA by mobbing up regardless of race.

Quickdraw
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 178
Joined: September 20th, 2004, 3:42 pm
Location: Chi-town Bred

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Quickdraw » January 20th, 2006, 6:42 pm

blackmanofhonor wrote:
FLUID wrote:Yeah a LA Stone would get love from a MoeTown or TerrorTown Stone but they gon' test him first, no doubt. A LA Stone most likely gon be tatted up that "BPSB" sign so I think he'll be alright. But then again a LA Stone might have to click up with a renegade Stone deck(Apache, Titanic, Jet Black, etc) cause they draw different like LA Stones.



i meant that question for someone from cali,or better yet a BPS Blood member,Fluid.since we are both from the mid west,we only know about the BPSN that are people.

when they test him,they are going to ask him to recite literature,which is a chi/midwest thing.I dont think cali BPS Bloods even go by lit.

a BPS blood probably wouldnt even know how to do the BPS(people) handshake

I know the ABPSN from the mid west wont consider a BPS blood a member of the same organization,because they arent.But weather they would respect each other or not is something diffrent.Ive asked a few Stones and they dissed the cali BPS Bloods.But that was only those individial Stones opinions,another Moe might think diffrently.


I think if an LA Moe moved to the CHI hed get the offer, get on knowledge or stop using our fucking name. Id hope somebody put him up on how things were meant to be in BPSN. Cuz I dont really like that fake shit that goes on when people claim a CHI gang outside of Illinois but knowingly aint following legit lit and then try to make excuses for it. I fault no man that is mislead but when you acknowledge that you dont follow Chi order theres a problem. Just own up to it that niggas was slipping in your old hood in LA. But it just seem like alotta LA niggas on this board know BPS in LA dont follow Chi lit try to justify that shit just cuz they are Bloods and "we're different" "our OG is T.Rodgers" just excuses for days. Just step up admit your faults and get put on some wisdom from a motherland Stone.

Quickdraw
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 178
Joined: September 20th, 2004, 3:42 pm
Location: Chi-town Bred

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Quickdraw » January 20th, 2006, 6:51 pm

blackmanofhonor wrote:I know there are ghettos and hardcore bangers in LA.I was just saying that there arent friendly gang members welcoming strangers with cameras into thier hoods in chicago.It just wont happen.


I have however seen LA gangs welcome cameras into thier hoods.I believe it was the Florencia 13.I forgot which show it was.There was also a gang called 38th street on the show,but when the cameramen tried filming them the 38th street members avoided them.

when Oprah Winfrey filmed that movie in Cabrini Green,she had to get permission from the gang leaders in the area FIRST before filming.


Silence and secretcy brother. The more business you put out on your Nation the easier it topples. Im not dissing nobody in LA but they think cuz of Hollywood LA is the end all of gangbanger and they this and that they do this and that and blah blah blah rah rah. Its nothing to me. Cuz being from the CHI i watch all that and Im noticing that Hollywood is sitting up there EXPLOITING you Crips and Bloods. They caking and making movies off you, they eatting off the Crips and Bloods. They not putting you on tv and in books cuz they think its uplifting. They using you for profit and gain, you a court jester for the media. You entertainment for America. You shouldnt wanna be on tv. So I dont understand while LA gangs enjoy the cameras and think it makes them worse than CHI organizations who arent on camera. Thats why CHI organizations have transformed past petty gangs, you gotta live and learn. These CHI "gangs" been around too long to not make moves to another level, and Im talking bout these gangs that much older than Crips and Bloods.

User avatar
CHAVA_G25
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 7:40 pm
Location: DUARTE, S.G.V./Riverside,I.E.
Contact:

Unread post by CHAVA_G25 » January 24th, 2006, 9:31 pm

IN MY OPINION I BELIEVE THERE WILL NEVER BE CRAZIER CITY THAN LA FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE THIS IS WERE THE GANGS STARTED IF IT WASNT 4 LA MANY OF THE LARGE GANGS LIKE THE CRIPS AND SUR 13 MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN EXISTING RIGHT NOW. SO LA IS THE MAIN BRANCH OF ALL GANG ACTIVITY IN HE WORLD AND NO OTHER CITY WILL GET THE RESPECT THAT LA HAS

Quickdraw
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 178
Joined: September 20th, 2004, 3:42 pm
Location: Chi-town Bred

Unread post by Quickdraw » January 25th, 2006, 6:53 pm

CHAVA_G25 wrote:IN MY OPINION I BELIEVE THERE WILL NEVER BE CRAZIER CITY THAN LA FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE THIS IS WERE THE GANGS STARTED IF IT WASNT 4 LA MANY OF THE LARGE GANGS LIKE THE CRIPS AND SUR 13 MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN EXISTING RIGHT NOW. SO LA IS THE MAIN BRANCH OF ALL GANG ACTIVITY IN HE WORLD AND NO OTHER CITY WILL GET THE RESPECT THAT LA HAS


Get off the coke

Y.G.
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2201
Joined: August 6th, 2003, 1:12 am

Unread post by Y.G. » January 26th, 2006, 3:06 am

Quickdraw wrote:
CHAVA_G25 wrote:IN MY OPINION I BELIEVE THERE WILL NEVER BE CRAZIER CITY THAN LA FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE THIS IS WERE THE GANGS STARTED IF IT WASNT 4 LA MANY OF THE LARGE GANGS LIKE THE CRIPS AND SUR 13 MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN EXISTING RIGHT NOW. SO LA IS THE MAIN BRANCH OF ALL GANG ACTIVITY IN HE WORLD AND NO OTHER CITY WILL GET THE RESPECT THAT LA HAS


Get off the coke



A DON'T GET MAD BECAUSE CHI-TOWN WELL NEVER BE A HEAD OF L.A. THE MUTHAFUCKIN CITY OF ANGELS. ONLY THING YALL GOT GOING FOR YALL IN THE CHICAGO IS......I GUESS R. KELLY AND THATS IT LOL!!!!!

curiousdude06
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 164
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 11:36 am

Unread post by curiousdude06 » February 11th, 2006, 4:39 pm

I have a lot of respect for the gangs of Chicago. They were just as into territory, colors, and hand signs as the L.A. gangs were from way back. The People and Folk nation alliances are no joke, some of the biggest gangs in Chicago have over 20,000 hard core members. Larry Hoover of the BGD wielded enormous power from his jail cell, even the warden of the prison he was at had his picture taken with him. These gangs make hundreds of millions of dollars a year in the drug trade alone.

Bottom line I respect both cities as two of the top gang cities in the world, whose influence and power extend beyond both.

Guage12
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 484
Joined: July 11th, 2005, 2:38 pm
Location: San Bernadino,KilafornIE
Contact:

Unread post by Guage12 » February 11th, 2006, 5:46 pm

Y.G. wrote:
Quickdraw wrote:
CHAVA_G25 wrote:IN MY OPINION I BELIEVE THERE WILL NEVER BE CRAZIER CITY THAN LA FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE THIS IS WERE THE GANGS STARTED IF IT WASNT 4 LA MANY OF THE LARGE GANGS LIKE THE CRIPS AND SUR 13 MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN EXISTING RIGHT NOW. SO LA IS THE MAIN BRANCH OF ALL GANG ACTIVITY IN HE WORLD AND NO OTHER CITY WILL GET THE RESPECT THAT LA HAS


Get off the coke





Niggaz in other states have copied many of LA/Southern Cali gang cultures....not all of them but alot of shit you see on T.V. these days is evidence of that influence of california Gang culture on the rest of the U.S so this is true.

Oaktown_G
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 747
Joined: November 17th, 2005, 2:23 pm
Location: M-town from the Bay area
Contact:

Unread post by Oaktown_G » February 11th, 2006, 11:59 pm

I would say LA would win.For those who dont know VL's and GD's started before crips and bloods.

curiousdude06
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 164
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 11:36 am

Unread post by curiousdude06 » February 13th, 2006, 1:51 am

Here's an older three part article on Chicago gangs and their enterprises. Pretty crazy stuff:

http://www.suntimes.com/special_section ... nga07.html

User avatar
CHAVA_G25
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 7:40 pm
Location: DUARTE, S.G.V./Riverside,I.E.
Contact:

Unread post by CHAVA_G25 » February 18th, 2006, 11:25 pm

Quickdraw wrote:Well the CHI gangs would bring the crazy ass Puerto Ricans niggas with them if it was LA VS CHI. And I dunno if LA knows how they get down or seen them motherfuckers before. We've seen Mexicans, blacks, Asians, Assyrians, whites, Ricans you name it over here, nothing would really surprise us. And they not gonna be on that black vs mexican shit all the way so the CHI gangs would smash on LA by mobbing up regardless of race.


Chicago might have alot of race diversity but that dont mean shit chicago dosent even have half the gangmembers LA has so shut the fuk up cuse LA will smash chicago

Bsiderida
Straw Weight
Straw Weight
Posts: 72
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 8:02 pm

Unread post by Bsiderida » February 20th, 2006, 8:58 am

speaking on who started first a majority of the LA gangs (bloods and crips) evolved from gangs that started in the mid-50's so that is before the GD's and VL's sprang up..as far that lit or knowledge that chi-town gangs have thats their own business...LA gangs DO NOT bite or copy off that PERIOD!! If a LA gang even knows about it, its because someone went OT or they have relatives from there. Now true enough outside of the WEST 5 and 6 pointers are more common but also dumbass wannabes have combined B & C's with GD's & VL's lit or knowledge..therefore both have had influence, but by far Bloods and Crips are the most notoriously known and feared. Not to take away from the Chi because I know a few BD's from Englewood in the Chi and some 4CH's and Cobra Stones from there as well but even they recognize the fact that LA is way more overpopulated with gangs and violence than Chicago...and as for the BPS's in LA the ones I have ran across have never even heard of or cared about the Blackstones in the Chi, the main difference being the LA Stones are BLOODS and the Chi-town Moes are something entirely different and unconnected to them except for T. Rodgers and him alone; that is their only connection to Chicago. But however you put it the person who said this thread was pointless is correct because each person from the cities is gonna say their gangs are the worse because that what we do, FLAG SAG and BRAG about our set..

Bklakmagig360
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: March 30th, 2006, 2:12 pm

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Bklakmagig360 » April 29th, 2006, 10:49 am

mission wrote:
lonewolf wrote:So which of the two cities has more olden gangs still in existance?

Which has a more generational membership line that continues to carry on?

Which has the most influence outside their immediate surroundings?



As far as gangs still around today, it has to be LA. LA IMO also has the most influence on varrio's outside of Cali. When I was active, 91-94, me and the homies knew nothing of Chicago gangs or Mobs, but we did now about East LA, and LA in general. And all the older g's were straight cholo's and had no knowledge about Chicago. I think the chicago influence only really got big in the past 3 or 4 years because of the enternet.


na chitowngot more influence here in the east coast.......lks.....bloods who rep the 5 start and got there lit from vice lords they realy have nothing in common with la bloods same with crips except for there colors and names ....theres some gd's and and 4ch on the east.......only la gang i herd of here on the east is ms 13 and a few 18th street cats but they realy hold no weight cali gangs are big i think only on the west chitown gangs is big in the east and south....

Individual
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 760
Joined: November 26th, 2004, 9:32 am
Location: Los Angeles CA

Unread post by Individual » April 29th, 2006, 1:02 pm

west coast got more influence on the east coast^^

dudes blue n red raggin it

chucks

khakis

even there style in music

Guest
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 292
Joined: December 16th, 2005, 2:33 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by Guest » April 29th, 2006, 8:26 pm

lonewolf wrote:These two cities have the top spots when it comes to style and influence in their gang culture, which is what so many others adopt or hold allegiance of some sort.

Wether they be Folk, People, Blood, Crip, Stones, Sureño or Norteño, Black, Mexican, White, Puerto Rican or what have you.

Which of the two cities have a more diciplined or tighter knit gang culture?

For instance in Rules to follow, artwork, graffitti symbols, social agenda, community relations, and so on.

L.A. or CHICAGO?

Which has the strongest structured gang culture in your opinion and why?


I only want to say,

L.A. Gangs - Gangsta's
Chicago Gangs - Gangster's

Notice the spelling, get what im sayin?

Individual
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 760
Joined: November 26th, 2004, 9:32 am
Location: Los Angeles CA

Unread post by Individual » April 30th, 2006, 12:41 am

theres a difference^^


gangsters are wise guys in my eyes..white collar gangsters

Bklakmagig360
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: March 30th, 2006, 2:12 pm

Unread post by Bklakmagig360 » May 4th, 2006, 2:15 pm

Individual wrote:west coast got more influence on the east coast^^

dudes blue n red raggin it

chucks

khakis

even there style in music


na no khakis here its niggas with hoodies red durags black flags on top juelz santana style or vice versa......or a blue flight jackets with with blue flags............not that im saying that nigas dont try 2 dress cali but new york niggas got there own way of flaggin red and blue...cause lets face its its realy cold alot of the times over here.....and khakis and chucks aint wat u wear when its 22 degress ouside.........

1974GEEZ
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 125
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 9:25 pm
Location: CHI CITY

Re: L.A. GANGS ~versus~ CHICAGO GANGS

Unread post by 1974GEEZ » December 8th, 2007, 6:33 pm

rocstar wrote:
MICK wrote:
rocstar wrote:Just on "gang related murders", LA is entirely by itself, thats the reason Crips and Bloods get more national attention than everyone else, they took the violence to another level, everyone else followed
Chicago didnt follow anybody brother. There arent crips or bloods here. We have our own gangs. Our gangs have been here for a LONG time, we arent following anybody. The only reason crips and bloods are covered in the media is because your in California. The media capital.
Arnold Shwartzaneger blows his nose and the rest of us will hear about it.
California's news is always heard in every state.
You'se guys have Hollywood. And LA is the media capital of America.
I didnt mean Chicago or any other place for that matter followed LA in terms of Crips and Bloods, I aint into the whos tougher or were better shit thats ignorant. LA is the first place that the violence reached the type of levels that are common now. Not that Chi or anywhere else hadnt already been banging, then actual LA gang members started going throughout the country tearing up shit and the locals started emulating. It was already gangs in LA before the bloods and crips and they never got national exposure, the main reason is because the level of violence that was brought to the game and how it was affecting gang members and non gang members alike
WAY BEFORE THEM NIGGAS STARTED MERKING EACH OTHER OVER COLORS THE CHI WAS ALREADY ON IT DEEP ..AND WE NEVER HAD NO HOE ASS TREATIES!!

Post Reply

Return to “Gang Questions, Info & News - Mid West - U.S.A.”