Panik wrote:as for you lonewolf. I never said that the DL's had anything to with terrorism. Two different subjects. And terrorism is not even my main concern of the border in Mexico, it's one of many. As for the taxes, you can try to weasel your way out of it, but the fact remains they do not pay their fair share. And the ones that use a different SS#, they are guilty of fraud. Why don;t you look at it this way. There are milllions of people that want to become Americans all over the world. Many of these are willing to go through proper procedures to get here and participate in the normal duties of being a citizen. There are some who would sooner break the law to get here, and continue to break the law a nd cut corners once they are here. Which do you want to become citizens? It's like cutting in line but worse. You have people who but their ass for years to get here, then you have some little #%@& who sneak in and ruin it for others. Even if we give amnesty to these that are already here, they already have a bad track record. THey are not good people, they are criminals from day one, and they will teach their kids the same shittty values. We DO NOT NEED MORE SHITTTTY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. We have enough homoe grown A-holes and do not need to import more.
Do you understand this? Can you look at it from an outsiders point of view? It is wrong to reward ANYONE for breaking the law. And every illegal alien has done it. And of course, the rich have loopholes and avoid their share of taxes too, but that is a different problem. You don't point the finger at someone else to avoid the topic. THEY ARE ALREADY CITIZENS. And they are a problem, does it mean we should just let the entire world take advantage of us too? And you can blame those loopholes on the republicans and bushes new tax cuts just made it worse. But none of this changes the fact that anyone using a fake ss# is lying on their application. If you ran a business, and you caught a citizen lying on their application, they would be fired on the spot. Why should it be different for an illegal?
Also, I never said that they use or abuse the housing. They do abuse the welfare, all they need to do is pop out a kid on our soil, and then the checks start comin. And even without kids they are a drain to ALL PUBLIC SERVICES. I am using logical arguments without bias. I am biased, but I do not let that enter into my reasoning. You have not made one valid point, only excuses and finger pointing. You know what I say is true, you know that it is not fair to anyone else, yet you stand by it. ARE YOU ILLEGAL LONEWOLF? Is that why you are getting so butt hurt? Every single illegal alien is a liar, a criminal, and a thief, stealing money from us, andthey should all be punished. There will come a day. A day when certain areas like LA become a 3rd world area. When taxes can no longer supposrt the population. When the sewer systems are overloaded and streets are so full of holes you can't frive you car down them. You will no longer have running water, and no toilet to flush. No police to call when there is trouble, and not enough schools, so the kids have to just sit in the street all day. Whne things like this happen, all hell will break loose. Why let it get to that point? And when something like this happens, what are wou gonna say? Who are you gonna blame? When LA is no better than the cities of Mexico people flock here from, who will be to blame? Will you point the finger at me? At rich white people? It's not my fault, it won't be their fault, it will be yours, for supporting this BS.
And like I said before, all people are guilty, Mexicans aren;t the only ones, they are just the worst offenders in numbers. And for some reason that I cannot figure out, they seem to be the least interested in making a better life for themselves and their children (not always, but much more so than any other nationality that has ever immigrated here). WHile everyone else comes here and learns the language and makes it a point for their kids to learn english and go to school so they can grow up to get good jobs, for the most part, the illlegla mexican is happy to come here and never learn english, they don;t care if their kids do, they don;t care if their kids graduate and get good jobs, they are happy to just be here and act just like they did where they came from. And then they wonder why they still live in F'ed up neighborhoods, and why they have to work shittty jobs. They just do not have the same values and motivations as everyone else. Can you exxplain that? And don;t say it's because they want to preserve their culture, or that this used to be mexico or none of that, because if your culture is poor, and your country has been a failure since the beginning, there should be no logical reason to hold on to that. Mexico is now, and has always been a crappy, poor country, through no fault of anyone but it's own leaders and people for voting them in. It is a corrupt, morale wasteland. You should not want to bring any of that with you when coming to a new place.
Pinoy562 wrote:1 - on the streets, whenever you hear the word "illegal alien" too many people think of mexicans or people of hispanic origin"
2 - if change needs to be made then change must be made within the countries where each illegal alien has come from and within our own foreign policies in accepting them.
Kemosave wrote:This isn't my forte and I don't consider myself anywhere on expert on illegals so take this as someone listening and learning.
It seems to me the camps have broken into two camps. In one camp you have Hispanic right's activists mobilizing La Raza to fully legalize the millions of illegals currently here and make life as good as they can for the ones yet to come. In the other camp, you have the whitebread the blacks and some citizens of other cultures fighting to send them home and seal the border.
Now, I see just as many special interests operating in both camps so down that argument in my opinion. But yes there is a tradition of undocumented workers in the USA for the reasons you stated lonewolf. But you are wrong when you say American workers are lazy. Most of the studies I have seen show that American workers work the longest hours overall than anywhere in the world. Just type in "Americans work harder" in any search engine and stand back because the amount of studies proving it will boggle your mind.
Outsourcing is a result of economics forcing Americans to work even harder than they already are to keep their jobs. It's simple math to say if you have a software engineer in the USA that goes for $62k a year and one in India that goes for $18k a year corporations are going to gravitate in our free market system (y=mxb) to the $18k paradigm.
You are correct in my estimation, however, about most Americans not wanting to work low paying jobs that have historically been filled by immigrants and undocumented workers.
You are also correct that we have reached a point now where there are so many illegals here they are draining resources and forcing up taxes.
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