How Do You Feel About Illegal Aliens Getting A Drivers Licsn

[Panik]

my point is this. I come from an immigrant family too. My grandfather and grandmother came through ellis island and didn;t speak a word of english. The difference is they came in legally. Once they got here, they worked and paid taxes. They made sure their children learned english and went to school, they never broke a law while under temporary status, then they were made full fledged citizens. The first step is COMING HERE LEGALLY. If you are a mexican, or from nywhere else, and you do not have a criminal record, and you have some type of work history, you can apply for legal entry and residence. We have laws that allow hundreds of thousands of people a year to do this. The problem is that a lot of these people have criminal records in their home countries, or have no job history. If you were a criminal, we don;t want you, we have enough of our own. If you just spent your life sitting on your ass at home, we don;t need anymore of those either. If you just do this and come here legally, I have no problem. But if your first act is to break the law to get here, then what does the future hold? More law breaking and cutting corners, and we DO NOT NEED THIS.

[RuthlessCray]

[quote="RuthlessBone"]i understand that it aint fair for an illegal who pays no taxes to just come over here and get a license. but im just thinking about someone like my friend who was brough over here before he was even able to walk. it aint his fault hes illegal.

No it isn't, and he's probably more American than where his roots are from. It sounds like to me, he needs to start doing some research on how to change his status. He may need to prove loyalty to the US and that he is an outstanding citizen.

I hope is not involved in criminal activity or have a criminal record, if so he just asking to be deported with no chance of ever getting legal status here.

nah hes a good kid. never been in trouble and just barely graduated high school. i know his parents always made sure he got good grades.

then all he has to do is apply for citizenship. As long as he doesn;t already have a criminal record, then he should be OK.[/quote]

oh i see..i really didnt know too much about this..i just remember last week i talked to my friend he was having alot problems with getting a license and getting into a college...

so i guess he could do this then...

[Panik]

yeah, my homie did it. He was born in brazil but moved here when he was a bady. His parents actually applied for him when he was a kid, so he has been a citizen for most of his life. There is a waiting period, but during the waiting period, they issue you a temporary type permit.

[J-DUB]

IF THEY ILLEGAL, THE SHOULDNT B ABLE 2 TO DRIVE LEGALLY. IT JUST DONT MAKE NO SENSE.

[Panik]

IF THEY ILLEGAL, THE SHOULDNT B ABLE 2 TO DRIVE LEGALLY. IT JUST DONT MAKE NO SENSE.

amen

[Kemosave]

Lol.. I have a couple friends that are first and second generation Germans and I will honestly tell you that I have never ever met a German person who was NOT immediately ready to vote to close the borders as tight as a drum as soon as possible in this country. They are hard wired for that.

[Common Sense]

i understand that it aint fair for an illegal who pays no taxes to just come over here and get a license. but im just thinking about someone like my friend who was brough over here before he was even able to walk. it aint his fault hes illegal.

My offer still stands if you want it RB. Check your PM box.

[Kemosave]

^^ I have a friend like that too but he recently paid the fees and submitted his paperwork. It's hard for them to come up with the $300.00 and know which forms to file. Plus the system seems to be geared toward the older Latinos that have been here a long time already.

[RuthlessCray]

i understand that it aint fair for an illegal who pays no taxes to just come over here and get a license. but im just thinking about someone like my friend who was brough over here before he was even able to walk. it aint his fault hes illegal.

My offer still stands if you want it RB. Check your PM box.

yeah i got the PM. i would appreciate it if you could do that. i would have responded in PM but im not allowed to send people PM's on here.i can only read what people send me. thanks

[Common Sense]

Hispanics Threaten Boycott Over License Veto

Pro-Immigrant Groups Are Organizing Protests, Boycott

Sep 24, 2004 5:16 pm US/Pacific
SAN DIEGO (AP)

Angered by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's veto this week of a bill to allow illegal immigrants to drive legally in California, Hispanic leaders and pro-immigrant groups are organizing protests and a national boycott of the state in their campaign to win the licenses.

Supporters of the bill, which was approved by the Democratic-controlled Legislature, said the Republican governor will pay a political price for reneging on promises to reach a compromise. They charge that Schwarzenegger belatedly added a demand that such licenses be specifically marked to differentiate them from licenses held by U.S. citizens and legal residents, a suggestion many said would encourage discrimination and persecution.

"If this is the posture the governor wants to take, then our community is going to be forced to kick it up a notch," said Nativo Lopez, president of the Mexican American Political Association and Hermandad Mexicana, based in Southern California.

Lopez, who led a one-day state boycott in December over the same issue, said he will organize a national boycott to drive convention business away from such popular destinations as San Diego, Los Angeles, Anaheim and San Francisco.

His organizations, which represent 140,000 people, have begun talking to other groups to plan their strategy. Already, dozens of picketers, including Catholic priests, marched outside Schwarzenegger's Los Angeles office on Friday; a much larger protest march is planned for Los Angeles on Oct. 16.

Mike Wilzoch, San Diego director of the Service Employees International Union, which has 30,000 workers statewide, said his organization likely would begin protests after the November election. However, union leaders said they doubt a boycott would cause Schwarzenegger to change his mind.

Opponents of the drivers' license bill, Wilzoch said, need to realize that without the labor of undocumented workers, "the economy of this state would fold."

"The notion that they're good enough to pick our crops, clean our buildings, take care of our kids, do a thousand absolutely essential jobs for us, but they can't drive -- how does that serve anyone's interest?"

Supporters of the bill argue that allowing illegal immigrants to have licenses would improve public safety by requiring them to know the rules of the road and obtain insurance. Opponents cite security concerns, and say granting licenses would encourage illegal immigration.

About one-quarter of the 26 million to 30 million drivers on state roadways each day lack insurance, according to the Personal Insurance Federation of California, which backed the bill sponsored by Sen. Gil Cedillo, D-Los Angeles. An estimated 2.4 million people living in California are illegal immigrants.

The dispute threatens to grow into the same sort of controversy that divided the state in 1994, when voters approved Proposition 187, which denied social services such as education and health benefits to illegal immigrants -- a move eventually overturned in courts. It was the same year the state began requiring proof of legal residency for driver's license applicants

A 1994 state boycott led by Hispanic groups resulted in the National Association of Hispanic Journalists canceling plans to meet in San Diego. The Mexico City-based World Boxing Council also withdrew from title fights in the state.

The National Council of La Raza said Friday it would consider canceling its planned 2008 convention in San Diego if a boycott proceeds, said Lisa Navarrete, vice president of the Washington-based umbrella group of 300 organizations. The convention would draw 25,000 to 30,000 people, she said.

While the council wouldn't take action without the support of its California affiliates, she said, "if they raise that issue with us, we obviously would take it very, very seriously."

Cedillo, who plans to introduce a new version of the bill in December, said those opposed to Schwarzenegger's veto should take action.

Others questioned whether a boycott was appropriate, noting that conventions buoy employment of workers in hotels, restaurants and other services.

"Ultimately, a boycott hurts everybody," said Sal Giametta, spokesman for the San Diego Convention & Visitors Bureau. He recalled that Arizona's lack of a formal Martin Luther King holiday cost it the 1993 Super Bowl, which ended up in Pasadena.

"Certainly it behooves us to find a way to get beyond these issues," he said.

[cbi562]

X

[Common Sense]

^^^A legit ID is like a mini passport. I think it's a little of both. Terrorism and Fraud.

[Michelle]

It is ridiculous that someone who doesn't belong here or pay taxes to kep our roads and freeways safe should be able to use them.

My mum somehow dodged the tax system,.. (just as bad?) childminding-all paid in hand, no cheque, no record of any money going in. Then again, she never got many kids to look after.Not, many people wan't to leave their babies in a cramped council flat, they wan't to get what they pay for I guess.. Still, we lived quite comfortably.

[Anonymous20]

my point is this. I come from an immigrant family too. My grandfather and grandmother came through ellis island and didn;t speak a word of english. The difference is they came in legally. Once they got here, they worked and paid taxes. They made sure their children learned english and went to school, they never broke a law while under temporary status, then they were made full fledged citizens. The first step is COMING HERE LEGALLY. If you are a mexican, or from nywhere else, and you do not have a criminal record, and you have some type of work history, you can apply for legal entry and residence. We have laws that allow hundreds of thousands of people a year to do this. The problem is that a lot of these people have criminal records in their home countries, or have no job history. If you were a criminal, we don;t want you, we have enough of our own. If you just spent your life sitting on your ass at home, we don;t need anymore of those either. If you just do this and come here legally, I have no problem. But if your first act is to break the law to get here, then what does the future hold? More law breaking and cutting corners, and we DO NOT NEED THIS.

Streight up Panik I coulda said it better.

[Common Sense]

It is ridiculous that someone who doesn't belong here or pay taxes to kep our roads and freeways safe should be able to use them.

My mum somehow dodged the tax system,.. (just as bad?) childminding-all paid in hand, no cheque, no record of any money going in. Then again, she never got many kids to look after.Not, many people wan't to leave their babies in a cramped council flat, they wan't to get what they pay for I guess.. Still, we lived quite comfortably.

I kind of like that under the table pay system in a weird way. I just need to clairify a term you used for the American readers.

Council Flats = Projects but not as ruthless

[Anonymous20]

As long as your payn i dont see a problem, under the table or legit as long as that money gets to who it should be whats the difference?

[Panik]

It is ridiculous that someone who doesn't belong here or pay taxes to kep our roads and freeways safe should be able to use them.

My mum somehow dodged the tax system,.. (just as bad?) childminding-all paid in hand, no cheque, no record of any money going in. Then again, she never got many kids to look after.Not, many people wan't to leave their babies in a cramped council flat, they wan't to get what they pay for I guess.. Still, we lived quite comfortably.

but you from england, I don't care if you pay taxes or not. But yes, if you do that here you are a piece of shit becasue you are making me pay for you're street, sidewalk, hospital, sewer system, and for your kids to go to school.

[cbi562]

X

[Michelle]

but you from england, I don't care if you pay taxes or not. But yes, if you do that here you are a piece of shit becasue you are making me pay for you're street, sidewalk, hospital, sewer system, and for your kids to go to school.

Well yes but I pay my tax. I said my mum didn't, which isn't my fault. I know what it's like to work so hard and have half of your wage go into gordon's pocket, the more you work the more poorer you get the way I see it, it puts me off doing any overtime, especially when you barely get anything in the first place.

I kind of like that under the table pay system in a weird way.

if only we could all do that. wishful thinking eh?

[Kemosave]

It would be interesting to view some realistic statistics regarding those who just dropped out of the system (idle social security numbers) and those who never bothered to get a social security number alive today.

[Anonymous20]

As long as your payn i dont see a problem, under the table or legit as long as that money gets to who it should be whats the difference?

You think under-the-table economy is good. It is good for you, but its not for the government. I never worked at a job in my whole life to make money. It is hard to buy a car or many other things when you do not have a checc stub coming in from a registered business. Many suspicions arise of how those funds are accumulating. If there is no legal source of where your money is coming from, your going to have a hard time with the government. One example would be going to open a bank account and depositin 100 grand - the IRS will flag, freeze, and investigate that account until shown proper documents. Im not sure what the limit these days on IRS flaggin accounts. Now for all smart cats that makin that big dollar, we all know the loophole to this.

I mean as long as it helps the country and gets to the government then whats the problem?

[E`S`T]

IF ILLEGALS ARE ALLOWED TO GET A DRIVERS LICENSE, IT WILL FORCE THEM TO GET INSURANCE, PAY TAXES ON REGISTRATIONS, AND CARRY INSURANCE. REMEMBER, YOU CANT GET A DRIVERS LICENSE WITHOUT INSURANCE. (UNLESS THEY'VE CHANGED THINGS) AND REMEMBER, ALL THESE ILLEGALS MAKE THE COUNTRY RUN. THEY PICK FRUITS, WORK AT JOBS THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS (SERVICE SECTOR) AND WILL DO THE HARD LABOR JOBS. WITHOUT THEM IN THIS COUNTRY, THIS COUNTRY WOULDNT RUN. POINT BLANK PERIOD!!!

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME U SAW SOME WHITE DUDE PICKING FRUIT OR WORKING AT A RESTAURAUNT WASHING DISHES??? IT DOESNT HAPPEN, WHITES ARE LAZY AND DONT HAVE A GOOD WORK ETHIC. THEY STAND BY THE FREEWAY WITH SIGNS THAT SAY, "VIETNAM VET, PLEASE HELP" WHILE LATINOS SELL ORANGES, CHERRIES, OR ROSES TO MAKE A LIVING. THINK ABOUT THAT..

[Panik]

we allow hundreds of thousands of "legal" immigrants every year that can pick the fruit and slang roses and oranges, and for every one of those, there are 3 ofthem standing with a beer in front of the home depot, or in front of the liquir store pghone booth, or in one of our jails. This means that we have more than we need, so logically, they need to slo their roll. We allow a couple hunred thousand per year becasue that is how many the economy can take. When a million a year come over, all it does is clog the system and drag everyone down.

[Kemosave]

I say let them learn the rules of the road, pass the test, and have a license like everyone else. But the truth is if they can't afford the $300.00 scratch to file for residency, they can't afford no auto insurance. They got it tough either way if you ask me.

[Panik]

I say let them learn the rules of the road, pass the test, and have a license like everyone else. But the truth is if they can't afford the $300.00 scratch to file for residency, they can't afford no auto insurance. They got it tough either way if you ask me.

man they got loopholes all day long. drive through santan ana and there are stores that already cater to the legal immigrants. They have signs like AUTO INSURANCE $17.99 a month. Well the trick is that they sell 1 month policies with no obligation to renew, but they come on one year papers. So you go in and pay $17 and show the dmv your paper and then never payagain. Whatever insurance company it is only has to worry about you getting in a wreck for a month, then you get canceleld, but you get to keep the papers as proof of insurance that will never be proven as fake until you get hit by one of these winners and try to file a claim. Then the company denies it because the person hasn;t paid their premiums and the policy was cancelled. This happened to me twice where my insurance company had to pay for me getting hit, and the people that hit me disappeared and there insurance was long canceled.

[RuthlessCray]

I say let them learn the rules of the road, pass the test, and have a license like everyone else.

i kind of agree with that because they do drive anyways so might as well make them learn how to drive the right way. my homie almost ended up in jail for beating some illegal who hit him and tried getting away. and this kind of stuff happened to alot of people i know.

[Kemosave]

Yes you are right Panik. I see those storefronts in every downtown area Los Angeles and Santa Ana for sure. I just never stopped in to check the terms!!! Lol.. So that's how it works.

[Lonewolf]

I'm reading up and working on a debate on this thread, bound to get good if Panico and Kimo-Sabe is on it with me.

[Lonewolf]

1st off people, having a drivers licence is a privilege, not a right.
2nd, Mexican citizens can drive legally in California or any other State for that fact with a valid Mexican drivers licence.
As long as that person does not remain in the State for more than 30 days, because then you would have to register your new address here and apply for a local licence.
Now we all know that they are here and they are not leaving, so lets suppose that they get into an accident or get pulled over by P.D. and they have one of these Mex' licence, WHO'S TO PROVE THAT THEY LIVE HERE, since the P.D. under the rules of engagement can only ask for Drivers Licence, Vehicle Registration & Proof of Insurance, right ?
"And thousands of them do have these, especially down here in San Diego, with many legal residents even having their vehicles registered with Mex' licence plates to avoid the dreaded "smog check".

So then the question becomes not so much as to drivers licence, but obtaining a valid form of I.D. right ?

The arguments have come out as to vehicle insurance and driving legally so that these don't have to go on a tv news chase on the freeway when involved in one, also the unrelenting terrorist threat and identity proof, as well as them on illegal status, therefore not having the same rights that a citizen or legal resident has, RIGHT.

To be continued after a reply.

[Panik]

I don't think it matters whether they live here or not. If they get pulled over and are illegal, they should be on the next thing smokin back to wherever they are from. Anaheim was doing this for a while and people were protesting, not sure if they stopped or not, but they said taht that were spending as much money jailing and pulling over and impounding cars from illegals as from actuall citizens, so they said that it was only fair to send them home, so they did. Anyone pulled over without proper documentation for being in the country was deported. Good idea I think.

[CHRIS]

PANIK CHEC YOUR PM

[Lonewolf]

The point that I was trying to make was that the issue really is about having a form of I.D. that is acceptable, not necessarily a drivers licence, that is why the MATRICULA CONSULAR is being issued to Mexican citizens by the Mexican Consulates and sponsored by Banks and Real Estate Agencies - because under the lie and fraud that the illegals do not contribute their fair share - the fact remains that these two finacial groups recognize the buying power and economical force in this "undocumented population", and guess what else "the airlines" accept them as a valid form of identification, so there goes your "terrorist argument" how "if these people were to obtain a drivers licence".
One more for you - the United States House of "Representatives" have already shot down a measure that would of prohibited banks and others from accepting these Matriculas as a valid form of I.D. - with the arguments like "having a conciousness about how you have to grow and live as a person" in these United States.