Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

There has been an increase in gang and youth groups in many Western European cities that have seen an influx of immigrants. There is also a significant organized crime coming from Eastern Europe In this section discuss Austria [Österreich], Denmark [ Danmark], England, France [FRANSS], Finland, Germany [Deutschland], Greece [Ελληνική, Elliniki], Ireland, Italy [italiana], Netherlands [Nederland], Norway [Norge], Rossiyskaya], Scotland, Spain [España] Sweden [Sverige] and the UK including any place on the Western European continent.
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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » August 30th, 2008, 8:59 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Well that depends where. Are you saying the Italians are more involved in Europe's legitimate's world? Or the American or global legitimate world? The 1700% figure he did pull from his ass. So what? You act surprised that Johnny would just put up a number. I think he just hit all the keys at once and pressed 'submit'. However, the Albanian mafia is a wealthy and powerful force, and Albania's GDP is only 11 billion. So the percentage would be something around that area. I've seen reports estimating the Albanian mafia making between $168-230 million a year. $168 million a year would be 16--%. To tell you the truth this is why I dont like engaging in discussion such as comparisons of GDP's and the wealth of criminal organisations. It's pure stupidity and nobody is certain. No matter how much you look into it you won't find out. Your one of the stable posters here 'thewestside'. I dont know why you would bring something like this up.
Again as I said in my first response. It depends where your talking about. Are we comparing the three on the global, American or European legitimate world?
Secondly, I would be happy to tell you whose more heavily involved in legitimate business' if I could know where we are talking about. If the case is 'is the Italian mafia in Italy making more money legitimately in Italy than the Albanian mafia in Albania?' Then I would have to lean towards none of them. Because I don't know and I never give an opinion, advice or thoughts on something I have no clue about. The Albanian mafia owns everything in Albania and Kosova and the Italian mafia adds up to 7% of Italy's GDP (Do they mean the Italian mafia in Italy or completely?). Who honestly has the right who give their opinion about who makes more in their countries. You and JohnnyRed seem to be the only ones naive enough to do that. Well I won't do it. I don't know enough about mafia owned industries in Italy to give my judgement and you don't know nearly as much as you need to about Albania and the mafia there to give your judgement. Is that fair enough? We both are too ignorant in each other's countries to give our opinion.
I'll put it very simply. The Italians have far more extensive legitimate interests than the Albanians in both Europe and around the globe. The earning power of the Italian Mafia, in both it's legal and illegal activities, is well documented by not only Italian and European authorites, but also by such research groups as SOS Impresa and Eurispes. The claim that organized crime "owns everything" in Albania may be more or less true, but that's not for sure. Taking the respective GDP's of the countries into consideration is valid because it shows the extent and scope of the crime group's possible legitimate interests. To put it another way, the Albanians couldn't possibly equal the Italians in legitimate interests because the Albanian economy is so much smaller than the Italian economy, to say nothing of the fact that the Italians have much larger legitimate interests elsewhere. I admit there is much information missing in regards to Albanian organized crime. But enough is known to know quite well that it is not on the same level as Italian organized crime.
Hahaha 'thewestside' by this statement I'm saddened. Come on now 'thewestside' I have followed up on I can say more than half of your argument with Johnnyred on two threads. This thread and the 'Albanian mafia in NY' thread. Now I have seen you a hundred times telling JohnnyRed he believe what he wants to believe. And now you went to the extent of accusing me of that who has never said anything downsizing or boosting any criminal organisation just because I said I have a lot of doubt in that figure. I still don't believe that figure to be a rational estimate. It could be around there. But I have a very hard time believe $40 billion. You seem fixated on that number. It seems your making a habit of believing what you want to believe.


Doubting the figure is fine as long as you have a good reason to do so. It seems to me you are simply doubting it because it seems big to you, not out of any knowledge of how the figure was developed.

Also one thing that I can say 'bothers' me when you say it is when you say that the Casalesi is only one clan in one Italian syndicate out of four in total. Are you implying that the Casalesi Clan is an ordinary clan? I did some research on them. They are, if not the most powerful clan in the Italian mafia, one of them. Didn't Saviano call this case the most important case in 20 years? And some people went as far as calling it the most important case ever. That is why it bothers me when you keep repeating that. I dont know if your trying to imply that there are hundreds of clans like the Casalesi's or what. Because the Casalesi Clan is a very special and powerful one in the Italian mafia whether it be Cosa Nostra, N'drangheta, Camorra or Sacra Corona Unita.
The Casalesi is considered one of the most powerful and wealthy clans in the Camorra. So I wouldn't call them your average clan. But you still have to take into account that there are 150 clans total in the Camorra. And groups such as the San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra and San Luca and Condello clans of the 'Ndrangheta are even more wealthy and powerful than the Casalesi.
I am well aware of the five families getting together to discuss the assassination of Rudy Giuliani. However, they did not do it or plan on doing it. They discussed it. Two families said yes, three said no. Thats not a comparison to Ismail "Joey Lik" Lika's case as I mentioned though. Ismail Like issued a $400,000 contract on not only Rudy Giuliani but on two or three defense prosecutors/politicians. And it was stated by Ismail Lika himself. If you can't get to them, kill their kids, mothers or fathers. Killing a high level prosecutor is not a sign of foolishness because it depends on what you want him dead for. If the man is making sweeping arrests, making entirely new laws to put your organisation behind bars and cleaning up the city you operate in substantially than it would be foolish of you not to kill him.
As damaging as Giuliani was on organized crime, both as a prosecutor and as a mayor, killing him would be even far more damaging to whatever group carried out the hit. America isn't Italy. It isn't Albania. It isn't Russia. It isn't Colombia. It isn't Mexico. An organized crime group killing an American prosecutor or mayor in this day and age have the full force of the FBI and Justice Department come down on their heads.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by VostokSila » August 31st, 2008, 2:47 am

and Russian influence as you maye already know. The Albanians own Albania, Kosova and the western part of Macedonia. They dont just control it. They own it and then some. And I am not trying to boost the Albanians. They're putting up the hotels, bars, lounges, restaurants, factories, industries, etc....
how is that deffirent from Russian influence in Russia?

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » August 31st, 2008, 9:32 am

AlbaniaUnited wrote:
punamusta wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote: He [Bexhet Pacolli] allegedly bribed Finnish President Marti Ahtisaari with over $50 million
How do you know that or are you just repeating what you've heard from somewhere? Martti Ahtisaari is a fat f*ck who sould be killed, but I really doubt that he was bribed by some Albanian.
No I am not repeating what I heard from somewhere. That 'some' Albanian' is the leader of one of the most powerful clans in the Albanian mafia. He is a multi-billionaire. He owns the company which built the Russian Kremlin you see today that also works in all corners of the world. South and Central America, China, Middle East, Europe, and Soviet Union. He not only bribed Marti Ahtisaari but he bribed Russian president Boris Yeltsin as well as numerous Russian officials totaling in almost $100 million USD. He also admitted numerous times to be paying 60 members of the Bush Administration lobbying for Kosova's independence as well as being Bill Clinton's close and personal friend as well as Vladimir Putin's. Look it up and than come and say that "I doubt that some Albanian bribed him". I'm not JohnnyRed, when I say something, don't have too much doubt about it unless I tell you myself I'm not to sure about the subject I'm commenting on.
I looked that up and it seems that some Bosnian newspaper started this story of Martti Ahtisaari getting bribed, and then some Serbian newspapers caught that story, too. All the things I could find of this incident where based on the story of that Bosnian newspaper and no major media ever reported this incident. Why would some Albanian bribe Ahtisaari as it was well known that he, as well as the whole EU, wanted Kosovo to have their independency? Why would he spend his money on something totally useless? And how would anyone know how much money was on those briefcases that this albanian supposedly gave to Ahtisaari? That Bosnian newspaper said there were two briefcases that both had 40 million dollars in it. How would they know?

My guess is that this whole story was written for a propaganda use that would put UN to a bad light, so that maybe kosovo wouldn't have got their independency.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by JohnnyRed » August 31st, 2008, 5:21 pm


I looked that up and it seems that some Bosnian newspaper started this story of Martti Ahtisaari getting bribed, and then some Serbian newspapers caught that story, too. All the things I could find of this incident where based on the story of that Bosnian newspaper and no major media ever reported this incident. Why would some Albanian bribe Ahtisaari as it was well known that he, as well as the whole EU, wanted Kosovo to have their independency? Why would he spend his money on something totally useless? And how would anyone know how much money was on those briefcases that this albanian supposedly gave to Ahtisaari? That Bosnian newspaper said there were two briefcases that both had 40 million dollars in it. How would they know?

My guess is that this whole story was written for a propaganda use that would put UN to a bad light, so that maybe kosovo wouldn't have got their independency.

dude shut the fuck up, some bosian newspaper, some bosnian newspaper you sound like a hoe that shit went worldwide. even yeltsin almost came down as a president completely because of the bribing allegations made against him too. you dont know shit bitch, keep looking harder because the bosnian news paper was the one that got it from the big news medias around the world.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 6:25 pm

I'll put it very simply. The Italians have far more extensive legitimate interests than the Albanians in both Europe and around the globe. The earning power of the Italian Mafia, in both it's legal and illegal activities, is well documented by not only Italian and European authorites, but also by such research groups as SOS Impresa and Eurispes. The claim that organized crime "owns everything" in Albania may be more or less true, but that's not for sure. Taking the respective GDP's of the countries into consideration is valid because it shows the extent and scope of the crime group's possible legitimate interests. To put it another way, the Albanians couldn't possibly equal the Italians in legitimate interests because the Albanian economy is so much smaller than the Italian economy, to say nothing of the fact that the Italians have much larger legitimate interests elsewhere. I admit there is much information missing in regards to Albanian organized crime. But enough is known to know quite well that it is not on the same level as Italian organized crime.

Well again I have to ask where are you talking about when you say Albanian organised crime is not on the same level as Italian organised crime? Globally? The Italians are more powerful and wealthy than the Albanians. In Europe? The Albanians are more powerful in many very crucial areas (drugs/arms/human trafficking, prostitution, politics, etc...). Except for the legitimate factor although they hold their own share even in the legitimate world compared to Italians in Europe. Your right not enough is known about Albanian organised crime. Because the politicians will not help the outside world reviel Albanian organised crime figures and families because they live off them and they run the state. If Albanian organised crime went away. Albania would lose almost all of its money circulation within the country.
Doubting the figure is fine as long as you have a good reason to do so. It seems to me you are simply doubting it because it seems big to you, not out of any knowledge of how the figure was developed.
Well why don't you (since you know) tell us how the figure was estimated. Nobody (in their right mind) on this forum will believe that number straight of the bat unless it is shown to us why it might be true. Since you know, you can be the one who tells us.
The Casalesi is considered one of the most powerful and wealthy clans in the Camorra. So I wouldn't call them your average clan. But you still have to take into account that there are 150 clans total in the Camorra. And groups such as the San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra and San Luca and Condello clans of the 'Ndrangheta are even more wealthy and powerful than the Casalesi.
I never called them your average clan. You implyed that they were just another clan when you repeatedly told us that "They are just one of a hundred and fifty clans in the Camorra!". They are one of the most powerful clans in the entire Italian mafia. Not just in the Camorra.
As damaging as Giuliani was on organized crime, both as a prosecutor and as a mayor, killing him would be even far more damaging to whatever group carried out the hit. America isn't Italy. It isn't Albania. It isn't Russia. It isn't Colombia. It isn't Mexico. An organized crime group killing an American prosecutor or mayor in this day and age have the full force of the FBI and Justice Department come down on their heads.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. If you see a prosecutor that ambitious, thats hungry to literally take down the mafia. He must be killed. Because the FBI might come down on the mafia a little hard afterwards but it will cool down and eventually be forgotten. The damage Giuliani did to New York could not have been done by anyone else.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 6:26 pm

I'll put it very simply. The Italians have far more extensive legitimate interests than the Albanians in both Europe and around the globe. The earning power of the Italian Mafia, in both it's legal and illegal activities, is well documented by not only Italian and European authorites, but also by such research groups as SOS Impresa and Eurispes. The claim that organized crime "owns everything" in Albania may be more or less true, but that's not for sure. Taking the respective GDP's of the countries into consideration is valid because it shows the extent and scope of the crime group's possible legitimate interests. To put it another way, the Albanians couldn't possibly equal the Italians in legitimate interests because the Albanian economy is so much smaller than the Italian economy, to say nothing of the fact that the Italians have much larger legitimate interests elsewhere. I admit there is much information missing in regards to Albanian organized crime. But enough is known to know quite well that it is not on the same level as Italian organized crime.
Well again I have to ask where are you talking about when you say Albanian organised crime is not on the same level as Italian organised crime? Globally? The Italians are more powerful and wealthy than the Albanians. In Europe? The Albanians are more powerful in many very crucial areas (drugs/arms/human trafficking, prostitution, politics, etc...). Except for the legitimate factor although they hold their own share even in the legitimate world compared to Italians in Europe. Your right not enough is known about Albanian organised crime. Because the politicians will not help the outside world reviel Albanian organised crime figures and families because they live off them and they run the state. If Albanian organised crime went away. Albania would lose almost all of its money circulation within the country.
Doubting the figure is fine as long as you have a good reason to do so. It seems to me you are simply doubting it because it seems big to you, not out of any knowledge of how the figure was developed.
Well why don't you (since you know) tell us how the figure was estimated. Nobody (in their right mind) on this forum will believe that number straight of the bat unless it is shown to us why it might be true. Since you know, you can be the one who tells us.
The Casalesi is considered one of the most powerful and wealthy clans in the Camorra. So I wouldn't call them your average clan. But you still have to take into account that there are 150 clans total in the Camorra. And groups such as the San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra and San Luca and Condello clans of the 'Ndrangheta are even more wealthy and powerful than the Casalesi.
I never called them your average clan. You implyed that they were just another clan when you repeatedly told us that "They are just one of a hundred and fifty clans in the Camorra!". They are one of the most powerful clans in the entire Italian mafia. Not just in the Camorra.
As damaging as Giuliani was on organized crime, both as a prosecutor and as a mayor, killing him would be even far more damaging to whatever group carried out the hit. America isn't Italy. It isn't Albania. It isn't Russia. It isn't Colombia. It isn't Mexico. An organized crime group killing an American prosecutor or mayor in this day and age have the full force of the FBI and Justice Department come down on their heads.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. If you see a prosecutor that ambitious, thats hungry to literally take down the mafia. He must be killed. Because the FBI might come down on the mafia a little hard afterwards but it will cool down and eventually be forgotten. The damage Giuliani did to New York could not have been done by anyone else.[/quote]

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 6:34 pm

I looked that up and it seems that some Bosnian newspaper started this story of Martti Ahtisaari getting bribed, and then some Serbian newspapers caught that story, too. All the things I could find of this incident where based on the story of that Bosnian newspaper and no major media ever reported this incident. Why would some Albanian bribe Ahtisaari as it was well known that he, as well as the whole EU, wanted Kosovo to have their independency? Why would he spend his money on something totally useless? And how would anyone know how much money was on those briefcases that this albanian supposedly gave to Ahtisaari? That Bosnian newspaper said there were two briefcases that both had 40 million dollars in it. How would they know?

My guess is that this whole story was written for a propaganda use that would put UN to a bad light, so that maybe kosovo wouldn't have got their independency.
First off, your wrong. Some Bosnian newspaper did not start that story. Look harder and you will see the article on a more serious official news media and even in letters written to state officials. Secondly, Marti Ahtisarri nor the entire EU wanted to give independence to Kosova. The United States wanted to give independence to Kosova. That's why it happened. The $40 million dollars in two briefcases were quoted to be said by a German intelligence agency. No one says that this is official. At least I'm not. It was a scandal between the Albanian mafia and Finnish president. If it was true and proven to be true. Marti would be next to some black guy right now. Haha. However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » August 31st, 2008, 6:37 pm

Calm down. You know, I actually would want to believe that this clown called Ahtisaari would have been bribed. Who knows, maybe he was, but way more likely this story is a fake. Again, why would Albanians need to bribe Ahtisaari (EU/UN) to support the independency of Kosovo? Americans and EU both supported Kosovo's independency basically from the day one. That means there were no need to bribe anyone.

And it is true that a Bosnian news agency called Focus was the first one with this story. After that Serbianna.com took that story, and then it spread to some other news agencies.

About the situation with Yeltsin, I don't know nothing.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 6:38 pm

VostokSila wrote:
and Russian influence as you maye already know. The Albanians own Albania, Kosova and the western part of Macedonia. They dont just control it. They own it and then some. And I am not trying to boost the Albanians. They're putting up the hotels, bars, lounges, restaurants, factories, industries, etc....
how is that deffirent from Russian influence in Russia?


Its different because Russian gangsters are not building every building in Russia. They control many legal industries, banks, etc.... But there is a difference between owning a state and having influence in the state. Even if it the tremendous influence the Russian mafia has in Russia.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 6:45 pm

punamusta wrote:Calm down. You know, I actually would want to believe that this clown called Ahtisaari would have been bribed. Who knows, maybe he was, but way more likely this story is a fake. Again, why would Albanians need to bribe Ahtisaari (EU/UN) to support the independency of Kosovo? Americans and EU both supported Kosovo's independency basically from the day one. That means there were no need to bribe anyone.

And it is true that a Bosnian news agency called Focus was the first one with this story. After that Serbianna.com took that story, and then it spread to some other news agencies.

About the situation with Yeltsin, I don't know nothing.
Lol I am calm. I apologize if I came off mad I was just trying to say that is not true. Actually your confusing some things. The EU and US intervened in Kosova. But they did not support it from day one. Intervening is different. They had to because people were getting massacared and displaced in large numbers. The United States was the only state to support us from day one. Secondly come on now punamasta. You have to quit saying that this Bosnian newspaper was the first one to come out with this story. You have no possible way of knowing this. Nobody does. It is not way more likely that he didn't. It is way more likely that he did. Because this would be his second time of being accused of bribing a president. Lets not forget the man being accused admits openly that he is paying 60 members of the Bush administration lobbying for Kosova.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » August 31st, 2008, 6:55 pm

My previous post was directed to Johnnyred, I forgot the quotes...
AlbaniaUnited wrote: First off, your wrong. Some Bosnian newspaper did not start that story. Look harder and you will see the article on a more serious official news media and even in letters written to state officials. Secondly, Marti Ahtisarri nor the entire EU wanted to give independence to Kosova. The United States wanted to give independence to Kosova. That's why it happened. The $40 million dollars in two briefcases were quoted to be said by a German intelligence agency. No one says that this is official. At least I'm not. It was a scandal between the Albanian mafia and Finnish president. If it was true and proven to be true. Marti would be next to some black guy right now. Haha. However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.
Yea, alright. It's not that interesting to argue what newspaper got the story first. I came across few internet sites that claimed the Focus be the one to come up with this story first. If it was some else, it still don't change anything. There were no need to bribe anyone, and it sounds unbelievable that Ahtisaari would have been taken bribes. But again, I'd actually like to believe that this clown was bribed, but after going through several internet sites about this incident, I just can't believe it.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » August 31st, 2008, 7:00 pm

punamusta wrote:My previous post was directed to Johnnyred, I forgot the quotes...
AlbaniaUnited wrote: First off, your wrong. Some Bosnian newspaper did not start that story. Look harder and you will see the article on a more serious official news media and even in letters written to state officials. Secondly, Marti Ahtisarri nor the entire EU wanted to give independence to Kosova. The United States wanted to give independence to Kosova. That's why it happened. The $40 million dollars in two briefcases were quoted to be said by a German intelligence agency. No one says that this is official. At least I'm not. It was a scandal between the Albanian mafia and Finnish president. If it was true and proven to be true. Marti would be next to some black guy right now. Haha. However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.
Yea, alright. It's not that interesting to argue what newspaper got the story first. I came across few internet sites that claimed the Focus be the one to come up with this story first. If it was some else, it still don't change anything. There were no need to bribe anyone, and it sounds unbelievable that Ahtisaari would have been taken bribes. But again, I'd actually like to believe that this clown was bribed, but after going through several internet sites about this incident, I just can't believe it.

Why don't you think Marti Ahtisaari would take bribes? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to convince you that he would I just want to know why you think he wouldn't. Are you from Finland?

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » August 31st, 2008, 7:01 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote: It is not way more likely that he didn't. It is way more likely that he did. Because this would be his second time of being accused of bribing a president. Lets not forget the man being accused admits openly that he is paying 60 members of the Bush administration lobbying for Kosova.[/b][/i]
I'm not saying that this Albanian guy wouldn't be able to bribe someone. I'm just saying that Ahtisaari taking bribes in these matters don't sound very true.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » August 31st, 2008, 7:08 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote: Why don't you think Marti Ahtisaari would take bribes? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to convince you that he would I just want to know why you think he wouldn't. Are you from Finland?
Yes, I am from Finland. Ahtisaari is a known right-wing politician here (even though he was a member of a so-called "labor" party). When he got selected to be the UN representative in Kosovo, people here laughed at it. He was pro-Kosovo from the day one, no matter what he might have said in interviews while working for the UN. That guy is a clown and a USA politics fan. Plus he just isn't the type of man who would have the guts to do anything illegal. Just google "martti ahtisaari" and look at that man. 70-years old fatso who barely look human, hahah! Nah, I just can't believe him taking bribes - especially on this matter.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » August 31st, 2008, 7:48 pm

punamusta wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote: Why don't you think Marti Ahtisaari would take bribes? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to convince you that he would I just want to know why you think he wouldn't. Are you from Finland?
Yes, I am from Finland. Ahtisaari is a known right-wing politician here (even though he was a member of a so-called "labor" party). When he got selected to be the UN representative in Kosovo, people here laughed at it. He was pro-Kosovo from the day one, no matter what he might have said in interviews while working for the UN. That guy is a clown and a USA politics fan. Plus he just isn't the type of man who would have the guts to do anything illegal. Just google "martti ahtisaari" and look at that man. 70-years old fatso who barely look human, hahah! Nah, I just can't believe him taking bribes - especially on this matter.
Did you ever think it wasn't his choice to take the bribes? I'm not saying they might've applied the kill or bribe philosophy here, but, for someone who has no guts to do anything illiga, it could be out of his hands. A person who has guts but does not want to do anything illigal can't be made to take a bribe, this is where the bullet comes in. But a person who has no guts, especially to do something illigal, can be not --- convinced --- but --- MADE to take the bribe. He has no guts to do anything illigal, thus he has no guts to say no. He has no guts to fight back. He has no guts to keep his word on the no to the bribe because he knows the bullet comes in.

It's basic phsycology. Think about it...

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » August 31st, 2008, 7:59 pm

Also, what is your perception of human?

What the hell is wrong with people today??? The media shows you a skinny person, it's labelled normal weight. So what if he's fat? I'm fat, yet I could lost weight and gain muscle, get a nice haircut, get rid of all the acne easily, put on some vaseline and there you go. I look like Arnold Schwarzenneger.

Did you know fatness was a sign of nobility and wealth 300 years ago? Not everyone could become fat, you know, cause people didn't have any money for food.

Also, why label me fat??? Or anyone else? Why make fun of something that isn't normal? Unfortuently, not many 'normal' people think it's bad to make fun of a 'fat' person as much as to make fun of someone who's retarded or disabeled.

Tell me what Nickolodeon makes you think...

Show a 'normal' 15 year old a video of a fat person jumping up and down, he'll laugh his ass off. Now show him a video of a bald cancer patient jumping up and down. Will he feel laughter or saddness???

You make me sick you bitch. Today's whole fucking society. The reason I don't talk back, the reason I don't insult without a reason, the reason I don't hit back when I don't think it's nessecary is the reason why people don't shit their pants when they see me walk down the street. Maybe I should do all this? I don't have the heart, of course I have problems I know but...

Who says I have problems? You do? Cause your so friggin normal? You know you invented the meaning of the word. What is normal in Africa???

Would you rather be fat and rich or poor and skinny? Poor and skinny would be the choice for 'normal' people, especially male teenagers, who hate fat people. But that's the North American definition...

What if I meant skinny and poor as in an starving African orphan with AIDS living in a tin metal shack with garbage and camel shit filling the streets type of skinny and poor???

HUH>!>

What if I meant fat and rich as in billionare Tony Soprano type fuck with his blubber rolling over his underpants while in his bathrobe with his fucking gold diamond ring goes to pick up the news paper while he grunts his way through, and oh, he snores enough to make me almost get a heart attack. I thought it was a dog growling. Big one. Don't ask.

The fat one also gets more pussy than you do. How's for a daily blowjob while you smoke a cigar, drink a nice glass of orange juice under the hot sun in a jacuzzi made of marble in your 200 hectare back yard???

Hmm?

Sorry. I went out of topic. I'm fucked. I need sleep. Bye.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Babmuk » September 1st, 2008, 10:06 am

Maan,that's called schizophrenia,why u trying to bring your own problems to this forum bro?No dis but think before u try to post anything like this.And it's got really nothing to do with the topic.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by RONNIE » September 1st, 2008, 11:40 am

lol at Razbonjik, hahahhhhhhhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Now that you are "protected" by the Hells Angels, even more shit comes out of your mouth I guess, lol!

LOL at 60 million dollars bribe for NOTHING. Why not just make it 60 BILLION JohnnyRed, you dont give a shit about reality anyway!
ITS AMAZING THAT PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS!
It was written in some stupid blog, NOWHERE else. This is JohnnyRed, guys. Are you really this dumb?

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 1st, 2008, 11:44 am

RONNIE wrote:lol at Razbonjik, hahahhhhhhhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Now that you are "protected" by the Hells Angels, even more shit comes out of your mouth I guess, lol!

LOL at 60 million dollars bribe for NOTHING. Why not just make it 60 BILLION JohnnyRed, you dont give a shit about reality anyway!
ITS AMAZING THAT PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS!
It was written in some stupid blog, NOWHERE else. This is JohnnyRed, guys. Are you really this dumb?

Oh man here we go again. Ronnie I am not JohnnyRed. If it was just on some stupid blog then why would Behgjet Pacolli be asked for both the Yeltsin and Ahtisaari scandal everytime hes interviewed? You really have to move on. Contribute something to the forum if you can but if you cant please stop distrupting things.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » September 1st, 2008, 12:00 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.
Although this might get boring already, I've been googleing about this incident for a while know and EVERY link that I've read says that Bosnian news agency called "Fokus" was the first one to report on this. How can you be so sure that it wasn't this Fokus who came up with this story?

Here's something more: http://juliagorin.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... tions.html

And I have to say that IF Albanian mafia bribed Ahtisaari on this matter, I guess that clown outsmarted the Albanian mafia for taking money from them and basically doing nothing for them. This whole incident is just too unbelievable. If that Albanian mafioso is such a smart and influential man, he wouldn't be stupid enough to pay someone to do nothing for him.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » September 1st, 2008, 12:03 pm

And Razbojnik,

Just take it easy, man. I wasn't referring to you when I said "fatso".

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » September 1st, 2008, 12:07 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Well again I have to ask where are you talking about when you say Albanian organised crime is not on the same level as Italian organised crime? Globally? The Italians are more powerful and wealthy than the Albanians. In Europe? The Albanians are more powerful in many very crucial areas (drugs/arms/human trafficking, prostitution, politics, etc...). Except for the legitimate factor although they hold their own share even in the legitimate world compared to Italians in Europe. Your right not enough is known about Albanian organised crime. Because the politicians will not help the outside world reviel Albanian organised crime figures and families because they live off them and they run the state. If Albanian organised crime went away. Albania would lose almost all of its money circulation within the country.
The Albanians do not "hold their own" against the Italians in their respective legitimate interests. The Italians dwarf the Albanians. And even if the Albanians had complete control over politics in their country, which is debatable, how much does that mean when the country is almost third-world and has little influence beyond it's borders? As for drug trafficking, arms trafficking, human smuggling, prostitution, etc., the Albanians may have reached the point where they rival the Italians in Europe but I haven't seen any evidence that shows they have surpassed them.
Well why don't you (since you know) tell us how the figure was estimated. Nobody (in their right mind) on this forum will believe that number straight of the bat unless it is shown to us why it might be true. Since you know, you can be the one who tells us.
I've already said that the figure was developed by Italian authorities prior to the "Spartacus Trial" involving the clan. Once again, it is not reflective of how much the Casalesi take in annually, but the combined wealth of their assets, businesses, liquid cash, etc. Taking into account the size of the clan's legitimate interests, to say nothing of it's illicit ones, it's not that hard to believe. Also, you have to remember that the $40 billion reflects the weak U.S. dollar right now. Converted into Euros, it would be 27 billion.
I never called them your average clan. You implyed that they were just another clan when you repeatedly told us that "They are just one of a hundred and fifty clans in the Camorra!". They are one of the most powerful clans in the entire Italian mafia. Not just in the Camorra.
You need to read more carefully. I said I wouldn't call them your average clan, meaning that I was saying that they are one of the top clans and not all are like them. But they are still but 1 clan amongst 150 total in the Camorra. You have to look at the overall picture to recognize the size and scope of Italian organized crime.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. If you see a prosecutor that ambitious, thats hungry to literally take down the mafia. He must be killed. Because the FBI might come down on the mafia a little hard afterwards but it will cool down and eventually be forgotten. The damage Giuliani did to New York could not have been done by anyone else.
If you think the FBI would only come down "a little hard" on any crime group that killed a prosecutor or mayor, you know very little about American law enforcement.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 1st, 2008, 12:12 pm

punamusta wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.
Although this might get boring already, I've been googleing about this incident for a while know and EVERY link that I've read says that Bosnian news agency called "Fokus" was the first one to report on this. How can you be so sure that it wasn't this Fokus who came up with this story?

Here's something more: http://juliagorin.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... tions.html

And I have to say that IF Albanian mafia bribed Ahtisaari on this matter, I guess that clown outsmarted the Albanian mafia for taking money from them and basically doing nothing for them. This whole incident is just too unbelievable. If that Albanian mafioso is such a smart and influential man, he wouldn't be stupid enough to pay someone to do nothing for him.
I don't think he outsmarted the Albanian mafia. $40 million is nothing Behgjet Pacolli. Also I would not say that he did nothing. In the 8 years Kosova and Serbia were having negotiations the world was divided. States kept changing stances every half a year. Ahtisaari could have easily leaned on the Serbian side at any time during those 8 year negotiations.

Greg Copley, the chairman of the International Strategic Studies Association, confirmed on July 14th that his organization has seen intellegence documents from German BND showing that Ahtisaari accepted bribes from the Albanian mafia.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by RONNIE » September 1st, 2008, 12:38 pm

punamusta wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:However the article did not start from a Bosnian newspapers, thats a lie.
Although this might get boring already, I've been googleing about this incident for a while know and EVERY link that I've read says that Bosnian news agency called "Fokus" was the first one to report on this. How can you be so sure that it wasn't this Fokus who came up with this story?

Here's something more: http://juliagorin.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... tions.html

And I have to say that IF Albanian mafia bribed Ahtisaari on this matter, I guess that clown outsmarted the Albanian mafia for taking money from them and basically doing nothing for them. This whole incident is just too unbelievable. If that Albanian mafioso is such a smart and influential man, he wouldn't be stupid enough to pay someone to do nothing for him.
Interesting, but why do you even try to post something in order to prove JohnnyRed wrong?
Other guys have been proving him wrong for months and he still didnt learn anything, he continues to write the same old garbage.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » September 1st, 2008, 12:48 pm

RONNIE wrote:lol at Razbonjik, hahahhhhhhhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Now that you are "protected" by the Hells Angels, even more shit comes out of your mouth I guess, lol!

LOL at 60 million dollars bribe for NOTHING. Why not just make it 60 BILLION JohnnyRed, you dont give a shit about reality anyway!
ITS AMAZING THAT PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS!
It was written in some stupid blog, NOWHERE else. This is JohnnyRed, guys. Are you really this dumb?
I'm in Macedonia LOL...

Only local groups got my back...

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » September 1st, 2008, 12:50 pm

punamusta wrote:And Razbojnik,

Just take it easy, man. I wasn't referring to you when I said "fatso".
:D

Ahh it's just been a little fucked here and there and I know that shouldn't be a justification but yesterday I had no filter so my bad.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » September 1st, 2008, 12:52 pm

RONNIE wrote: Interesting, but why do you even try to post something in order to prove JohnnyRed wrong?
Other guys have been proving him wrong for months and he still didnt learn anything, he continues to write the same old garbage.

Shut up.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » September 1st, 2008, 1:34 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:I don't think he outsmarted the Albanian mafia. $40 million is nothing Behgjet Pacolli. Also I would not say that he did nothing. In the 8 years Kosova and Serbia were having negotiations the world was divided. States kept changing stances every half a year. Ahtisaari could have easily leaned on the Serbian side at any time during those 8 year negotiations.

Greg Copley, the chairman of the International Strategic Studies Association, confirmed on July 14th that his organization has seen intellegence documents from German BND showing that Ahtisaari accepted bribes from the Albanian mafia.
Ahtisaari outsmarting an Albanian mafia was a joke. That guy couldn't outsmart even his dog if he has one, hahah.

And you know, Serbia has always been disliked by western Europe and USA, and Ahtisaari has always wanted badly to be in a same boat with western europeans and USA. That's the main problem with right-wing politicians here. They want to please big, western nations even if it would be harmful to us. They don't think, they just want to sit in the same tables as them. And Ahtisaari started as an UN envoy as late as 2005, in a situation where it was already clear that big EU nations and USA would back up the Kosovo's independency.

But where are those BND reports? Those I dind't find by googling, or even any site that could have confirmed that this report really excists, and was brought to the UN for further examinations (like it was said to be brought). Can you find any info on that report? Other that sites that just talks about it.
RONNIE wrote: Interesting, but why do you even try to post something in order to prove JohnnyRed wrong?
Other guys have been proving him wrong for months and he still didnt learn anything, he continues to write the same old garbage.
I don't know if he's JohnnyRed or not. I make comments on things that may have a point that is interesting to me. I don't care who's the person bringing up that point.
razbojnik wrote:
:D

Ahh it's just been a little #%@& here and there and I know that shouldn't be a justification but yesterday I had no filter so my bad.
Everyone has bad days sometimes, that's only natural. I personally try to keep myself off from the keyboard when I'm pissed. Or drunk, hahah.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » September 1st, 2008, 1:59 pm

How would it be harmful for Finland if you sided with the US and the West instead of Serbia??? There aren't alot of Finns in Serbia...

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by punamusta » September 1st, 2008, 2:13 pm

razbojnik wrote:How would it be harmful for Finland if you sided with the US and the West instead of Serbia??? There aren't alot of Finns in Serbia...
I meant that it's harmful for us to side with western Europe and USA in the sence that those two sides stands for the capitalist world and the politics that helps the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That kind of policy destroys the world as well as the nations from the inside (Finland is no exception). Inequality is not something to support in any sense. And that is the policy that western Europe (EU) and USA practises. And by siding with these people our country will be in more troubles as already the effects of capitalist policy is clearly seen in here.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 1st, 2008, 2:58 pm

punamusta wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:I don't think he outsmarted the Albanian mafia. $40 million is nothing Behgjet Pacolli. Also I would not say that he did nothing. In the 8 years Kosova and Serbia were having negotiations the world was divided. States kept changing stances every half a year. Ahtisaari could have easily leaned on the Serbian side at any time during those 8 year negotiations.

Greg Copley, the chairman of the International Strategic Studies Association, confirmed on July 14th that his organization has seen intellegence documents from German BND showing that Ahtisaari accepted bribes from the Albanian mafia.
Ahtisaari outsmarting an Albanian mafia was a joke. That guy couldn't outsmart even his dog if he has one, hahah.

And you know, Serbia has always been disliked by western Europe and USA, and Ahtisaari has always wanted badly to be in a same boat with western europeans and USA. That's the main problem with right-wing politicians here. They want to please big, western nations even if it would be harmful to us. They don't think, they just want to sit in the same tables as them. And Ahtisaari started as an UN envoy as late as 2005, in a situation where it was already clear that big EU nations and USA would back up the Kosovo's independency.

But where are those BND reports? Those I dind't find by googling, or even any site that could have confirmed that this report really excists, and was brought to the UN for further examinations (like it was said to be brought). Can you find any info on that report? Other that sites that just talks about it.

I'll try to find some official reports on the matter. I'll get back to you when I do.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 1st, 2008, 5:26 pm

I'll put it very simply. The Italians have far more extensive legitimate interests than the Albanians in both Europe and around the globe.
This may very well be true. But stop saying things like "I'll put this very simple". You sound like a jerk-off (no offense). As well as biased. I would agree that the Italian mafia is more involved in the legitimate world.
The earning power of the Italian Mafia, in both it's legal and illegal activities, is well documented by not only Italian and European authorites, but also by such research groups as SOS Impresa and Eurispes. The claim that organized crime "owns everything" in Albania may be more or less true, but that's not for sure.
Well lets look at the facts of what I said. Albanian organised crime ''owns" Albania. Now the average salary of an Albanian worker is $300 USD per month. So what Albanian would be able to open up the kind of hotels that are opening in Albania? I strongly encourage anyone who is interested in my country to visit it. Not for the organised crime feature. But to understand what I am talking about so I don't come off like an idiot. The beaches are nice too.
Taking the respective GDP's of the countries into consideration is valid because it shows the extent and scope of the crime group's possible legitimate interests. To put it another way, the Albanians couldn't possibly equal the Italians in legitimate interests because the Albanian economy is so much smaller than the Italian economy,
Well lets say that you take my word for Albanian criminals owning everything in Albania. Lets say the Albanian mafia controls 90% of Albania's legal economy. That would be around 19 point something billion USD. Now comparing that to the Italian mafia who are said to control 3.5% to 10% of the Italian economy. So the Italians would make, if controlling 5% of the GDP, $85 billion USD. $170 billion if controlling 10% but they dont. So lets leave it at $90-100 billion USD. That would be much more for the Italians than the Albanians. Problem solved. When coming to the legitimate world the Italians would win. There you go JohnnyRed and thewestside your math problem is over.
to say nothing of the fact that the Italians have much larger legitimate interests elsewhere.
I have to call BS on that one. Italy is the Italian mafia's stronghold in both the legal and illegal trade. Period. Nowhere in the world do they come close to having the influence or money they do in Italy.
I admit there is much information missing in regards to Albanian organized crime. But enough is known to know quite well that it is not on the same level as Italian organized crime.
Wrong. Maybe in the legitimate world. Your sounding like JohnnyRed now. Speaking without knowing. You say much of information is missing but I guess you can fill that information in your head? Illegaly wise the Albanian mafia is on the same if not further level then the Italians in Europe. Most places outside of Europe the Italian mafia surpasses the Albanian. Globally wise, the Italians are 'bigger'.

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