AlbaniaUnited wrote:Well that depends where. Are you saying the Italians are more involved in Europe's legitimate's world? Or the American or global legitimate world? The 1700% figure he did pull from his ass. So what? You act surprised that Johnny would just put up a number. I think he just hit all the keys at once and pressed 'submit'. However, the Albanian mafia is a wealthy and powerful force, and Albania's GDP is only 11 billion. So the percentage would be something around that area. I've seen reports estimating the Albanian mafia making between $168-230 million a year. $168 million a year would be 16--%. To tell you the truth this is why I dont like engaging in discussion such as comparisons of GDP's and the wealth of criminal organisations. It's pure stupidity and nobody is certain. No matter how much you look into it you won't find out. Your one of the stable posters here 'thewestside'. I dont know why you would bring something like this up.
Again as I said in my first response. It depends where your talking about. Are we comparing the three on the global, American or European legitimate world?
I'll put it very simply. The Italians have far more extensive legitimate interests than the Albanians in both Europe and around the globe. The earning power of the Italian Mafia, in both it's legal and illegal activities, is well documented by not only Italian and European authorites, but also by such research groups as SOS Impresa and Eurispes. The claim that organized crime "owns everything" in Albania may be more or less true, but that's not for sure. Taking the respective GDP's of the countries into consideration is valid because it shows the extent and scope of the crime group's possible legitimate interests. To put it another way, the Albanians couldn't possibly equal the Italians in legitimate interests because the Albanian economy is so much smaller than the Italian economy, to say nothing of the fact that the Italians have much larger legitimate interests elsewhere. I admit there is much information missing in regards to Albanian organized crime. But enough is known to know quite well that it is not on the same level as Italian organized crime.Secondly, I would be happy to tell you whose more heavily involved in legitimate business' if I could know where we are talking about. If the case is 'is the Italian mafia in Italy making more money legitimately in Italy than the Albanian mafia in Albania?' Then I would have to lean towards none of them. Because I don't know and I never give an opinion, advice or thoughts on something I have no clue about. The Albanian mafia owns everything in Albania and Kosova and the Italian mafia adds up to 7% of Italy's GDP (Do they mean the Italian mafia in Italy or completely?). Who honestly has the right who give their opinion about who makes more in their countries. You and JohnnyRed seem to be the only ones naive enough to do that. Well I won't do it. I don't know enough about mafia owned industries in Italy to give my judgement and you don't know nearly as much as you need to about Albania and the mafia there to give your judgement. Is that fair enough? We both are too ignorant in each other's countries to give our opinion.
Hahaha 'thewestside' by this statement I'm saddened. Come on now 'thewestside' I have followed up on I can say more than half of your argument with Johnnyred on two threads. This thread and the 'Albanian mafia in NY' thread. Now I have seen you a hundred times telling JohnnyRed he believe what he wants to believe. And now you went to the extent of accusing me of that who has never said anything downsizing or boosting any criminal organisation just because I said I have a lot of doubt in that figure. I still don't believe that figure to be a rational estimate. It could be around there. But I have a very hard time believe $40 billion. You seem fixated on that number. It seems your making a habit of believing what you want to believe.
Doubting the figure is fine as long as you have a good reason to do so. It seems to me you are simply doubting it because it seems big to you, not out of any knowledge of how the figure was developed.
The Casalesi is considered one of the most powerful and wealthy clans in the Camorra. So I wouldn't call them your average clan. But you still have to take into account that there are 150 clans total in the Camorra. And groups such as the San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra and San Luca and Condello clans of the 'Ndrangheta are even more wealthy and powerful than the Casalesi.Also one thing that I can say 'bothers' me when you say it is when you say that the Casalesi is only one clan in one Italian syndicate out of four in total. Are you implying that the Casalesi Clan is an ordinary clan? I did some research on them. They are, if not the most powerful clan in the Italian mafia, one of them. Didn't Saviano call this case the most important case in 20 years? And some people went as far as calling it the most important case ever. That is why it bothers me when you keep repeating that. I dont know if your trying to imply that there are hundreds of clans like the Casalesi's or what. Because the Casalesi Clan is a very special and powerful one in the Italian mafia whether it be Cosa Nostra, N'drangheta, Camorra or Sacra Corona Unita.
As damaging as Giuliani was on organized crime, both as a prosecutor and as a mayor, killing him would be even far more damaging to whatever group carried out the hit. America isn't Italy. It isn't Albania. It isn't Russia. It isn't Colombia. It isn't Mexico. An organized crime group killing an American prosecutor or mayor in this day and age have the full force of the FBI and Justice Department come down on their heads.I am well aware of the five families getting together to discuss the assassination of Rudy Giuliani. However, they did not do it or plan on doing it. They discussed it. Two families said yes, three said no. Thats not a comparison to Ismail "Joey Lik" Lika's case as I mentioned though. Ismail Like issued a $400,000 contract on not only Rudy Giuliani but on two or three defense prosecutors/politicians. And it was stated by Ismail Lika himself. If you can't get to them, kill their kids, mothers or fathers. Killing a high level prosecutor is not a sign of foolishness because it depends on what you want him dead for. If the man is making sweeping arrests, making entirely new laws to put your organisation behind bars and cleaning up the city you operate in substantially than it would be foolish of you not to kill him.