Albanian mafia in NY

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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Azure9920
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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 2nd, 2008, 1:59 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you(Albanboy) are stating that Albanians surpass the Jamaicans in New York City?

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by youngspade » September 2nd, 2008, 2:11 pm

Azure9920 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but you(Albanboy) are stating that Albanians surpass the Jamaicans in New York City?

I got cousins IN the Jamiaican Mob and thats prolly about the only thing you can actually compare, and not being a bias person...im going to have to go with Albains.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 2:16 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Incorrect. The Albanians surpass most criminal organisations in New York City. They are involved in everything from arms trafficking to counterfeiting everywhere in New York. The reasons those groups were specifically investigated thewestside is clearly because they post the biggest threat. That should be obvious to even you. Come on now, your calling out BS now. Cubans? They have their presence there but nowhere near the Albanians in New York. The only Cuban presence I have heard about is that Cuban gambling ring that originated from Florida or something. That had a significant presence but I think your biased because of your relationship with JohnnyRed. The Albanians are among the very top groups in New York City. As the video mentioned they carved out pieces of the mafia's old turf. As well as numerous incidents have proved Albanian organised crime spreading at an alarming rate in the United States. Not to mention the Albanians operate with extreme violence. You cannot name any Cuban, Dominican, Colombian, Jamican personalities in New York. Alex Rudaj, Ismail Lika, The YACS organisation is just a few Albanian organised crime personalities and gangs that can be easily found on google.
After the LCN, the Cubans control the largest illegal gambling operations in New York and are also active in drug trafficking, money laundering, and other crimes. The Colombians are the major suppliers of illegal drugs to the Northeast (incuding New York City) and the Dominicans are their main wholesalers. Albanian groups are active in a number of criminal activities but on relatively smaller scale compared to many other groups. They are what the FBI has termed an "emerging" crime group. All the talk about the Albanians "carving out pieces" of the Mafia's turf comes from the Rudaj gang, which had taken over two Greek gambling clubs that payed tribute to the LCN before most of the group was taken down by 2006. Ismail Lika is a single drug trafficker that, for some reason, you Albanian posters keep trying to hang your hat on. YACS (Yugoslavian/Albanian/Croatian, Serbian) burglary rings, although very efficient, are typical of Balkan organized crime in that it is still very "street level." Federal authorities have identified Albanian groups in about a dozen U.S. cities. They are generally small, tight-knit groups that revolve around one or more central leaders and involved in street level crimes. The Albanians are among the top crime groups in New York if you mean "top 10," but they would be behind at least the the Italians, Russians, Chinese, Colombians, and Cubans.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 2nd, 2008, 2:18 pm

That's just crazy. The two are in different leagues.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 2:19 pm

Azure9920 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but you(Albanboy) are stating that Albanians surpass the Jamaicans in New York City?
The Jamaicans don't have the same presence in either New York City or the rest of the U.S. that they did at their peak in the 1980's. They are still involved in drug trafficking in both New York and Florida (some cocaine but mainly marijuana) but not to the extent that they once were. I would say that Albanian groups now pose more of a threat than the Jamaicans do.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 2nd, 2008, 2:20 pm

thewestside wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but you(Albanboy) are stating that Albanians surpass the Jamaicans in New York City?
The Jamaicans don't have the same presence in either New York City or the rest of the U.S. that they did at their peak in the 1980's. They are still involved in drug trafficking in both New York and Florida (some cocaine but mainly marijuana) but not to the extent that they once were. I would say that Albanian groups now pose more of a threat than the Jamaicans do.
Really? So the Jamaicans fell off that much? Is there any FBI/DEA report on their recent activities?

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 2:56 pm

Azure9920 wrote:Really? So the Jamaicans fell off that much? Is there any FBI/DEA report on their recent activities?
The 2008 DEA Threat Assessement -
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/18862/index.htm

In a nutshell, Jamaican drug trafficking organizations are prominent marijuana traffickers in the areas where they operate (New York and Florida) and they are still involved in cocaine distribution to some extent, though not as nearly as in the past.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 2nd, 2008, 4:08 pm

Azure9920 wrote:
thewestside wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but you(Albanboy) are stating that Albanians surpass the Jamaicans in New York City?
The Jamaicans don't have the same presence in either New York City or the rest of the U.S. that they did at their peak in the 1980's. They are still involved in drug trafficking in both New York and Florida (some cocaine but mainly marijuana) but not to the extent that they once were. I would say that Albanian groups now pose more of a threat than the Jamaicans do.
Really? So the Jamaicans fell off that much? Is there any FBI/DEA report on their recent activities?


Hahahahah. You seemed so sure of yourself that the Jamicians surpassed the Albanians. But you rely on what 'thewestside' says so much that you can change your mind in a hearbeat if he says otherwise? You seem like you really know your stuff.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 4:12 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Hahahahah. You seemed so sure of yourself that the Jamicians surpassed the Albanians. But you rely on what 'thewestside' says so much that you can change your mind in a hearbeat if he says otherwise? You seem like you really know your stuff.
I don't know if he is totally relying on what I said. At least not what I said alone, as I also provided a link to the latest DEA report. At least he is open to the facts as they become known to him, rather than making an argument from a standpoint with little or no information which is what you were doing.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 2nd, 2008, 4:13 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote: Hahahahah. You seemed so sure of yourself that the Jamicians surpassed the Albanians. But you rely on what 'thewestside' says so much that you can change your mind in a hearbeat if he says otherwise? You seem like you really know your stuff.
I'm well aware my exact figures were off when it came to the Jamaican DTO's, as I was relying on old information. "Jamaican DTOs are prominent marijuana transporters and distributors in the New York/New Jersey and Florida/Caribbean Regions. Much of this marijuana is cultivated by Jamaican DTOs in Caribbean island nations. Jamaican DTOs also transport and distribute cocaine, primarily in Florida." Prominent distributors in the New York region? Now there's a word you won't see in connection with Albanians.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 2nd, 2008, 4:21 pm

Well 'thewestside' your going to have to excuse me for not believing you and thinking your wrong as well as your opinions being biased based on your relationship with JohnnyRed. I don't hold Ismail Lika as some kind of Albanian crime god just because I mentioned him. Whats wrong with you? Everytime you talk I can see how biased you are. You say your not Italian but I know for a fact that you are. It seems that you have correct knowledge of most groups but seem to downsize the Albanians in any and everyway you can. For that I have to say its not good. Numerous articles have said repeatedly that Albanians pose one of the most serious threats in New York City. So again, your gonna have to excuse me for calling you biased and wrong. But I think we can both agree to disagree about this.

Cubans are not on the same level. Dominicans are street sellers. This is why I call you biased. You put Dominicans ahead of Albanian organised crime in New York. I'm going to have to go with the FBI and news reports on this matter.

Law enforcement officials say Asians, Russians and Albanians have established their own crime organizations in the United States. These groups are smaller and more disorganized than their Italian counterparts but pose their own danger.

If any group on New York City posed more of a danger then Russians, Albanians, Asians and Italians they would have mentioned him here. Not basing my entire argument on only this news report but this is something that should be obvious to people on this forum. That these four and the Colombians are the strongest criminals in New York.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 2nd, 2008, 4:52 pm

Azure9920 wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote: Hahahahah. You seemed so sure of yourself that the Jamicians surpassed the Albanians. But you rely on what 'thewestside' says so much that you can change your mind in a hearbeat if he says otherwise? You seem like you really know your stuff.
I'm well aware my exact figures were off when it came to the Jamaican DTO's, as I was relying on old information. "Jamaican DTOs are prominent marijuana transporters and distributors in the New York/New Jersey and Florida/Caribbean Regions. Much of this marijuana is cultivated by Jamaican DTOs in Caribbean island nations. Jamaican DTOs also transport and distribute cocaine, primarily in Florida." Prominent distributors in the New York region? Now there's a word you won't see in connection with Albanians.

Your right its a word I wont see connected to Albanians in America. At least not now. But Albanians are involved in pratically everything an organised crime organisation is involved in. If you go to Europe you will see that connection though. With heroin which is worth pretty much what Cocaine is in America. There is alot of money in Marijuana. I give credit to the Jamicans being smart enough to switch from hard drugs and taking over the marijuana market because is makes alot of money and light sentences. So they can become rich and see their grandkids. I see you live in Toronto I have a Jamaican friend from Toronto.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 2nd, 2008, 4:55 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote: Hahahahah. You seemed so sure of yourself that the Jamicians surpassed the Albanians. But you rely on what 'thewestside' says so much that you can change your mind in a hearbeat if he says otherwise? You seem like you really know your stuff.
I'm well aware my exact figures were off when it came to the Jamaican DTO's, as I was relying on old information. "Jamaican DTOs are prominent marijuana transporters and distributors in the New York/New Jersey and Florida/Caribbean Regions. Much of this marijuana is cultivated by Jamaican DTOs in Caribbean island nations. Jamaican DTOs also transport and distribute cocaine, primarily in Florida." Prominent distributors in the New York region? Now there's a word you won't see in connection with Albanians.

Your right its a word I wont see connected to Albanians in America. At least not now. But Albanians are involved in pratically everything an organised crime organisation is involved in. If you go to Europe you will see that connection though. With heroin which is worth pretty much what Cocaine is in America. There is alot of money in Marijuana. I give credit to the Jamicans being smart enough to switch from hard drugs and taking over the marijuana market because is makes alot of money and light sentences. So they can become rich and see their grandkids. I see you live in Toronto I have a Jamaican friend from Toronto.
Haha, you just described about half of Toronto.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 2nd, 2008, 4:59 pm

Haha, you just described about half of Toronto.

Believe me you dont have to tell me. If only you could have seen what my Jamican friend showed me there loool.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 6:33 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Well 'thewestside' your going to have to excuse me for not believing you and thinking your wrong as well as your opinions being biased based on your relationship with JohnnyRed. I don't hold Ismail Lika as some kind of Albanian crime god just because I mentioned him. Whats wrong with you? Everytime you talk I can see how biased you are. You say your not Italian but I know for a fact that you are. It seems that you have correct knowledge of most groups but seem to downsize the Albanians in any and everyway you can. For that I have to say its not good. Numerous articles have said repeatedly that Albanians pose one of the most serious threats in New York City. So again, your gonna have to excuse me for calling you biased and wrong. But I think we can both agree to disagree about this.

Cubans are not on the same level. Dominicans are street sellers. This is why I call you biased. You put Dominicans ahead of Albanian organised crime in New York. I'm going to have to go with the FBI and news reports on this matter.

Law enforcement officials say Asians, Russians and Albanians have established their own crime organizations in the United States. These groups are smaller and more disorganized than their Italian counterparts but pose their own danger.

If any group on New York City posed more of a danger then Russians, Albanians, Asians and Italians they would have mentioned him here. Not basing my entire argument on only this news report but this is something that should be obvious to people on this forum. That these four and the Colombians are the strongest criminals in New York.
You're giving JohnnyRed too much credit. I don't think enough of him to let our past debates influence my opinion. I simply go with the facts. And you can think I'm Italian all you want, but I am not. I am mostly of English descent, some Danish. If I wanted to "downsize" the Albanians, I would have said they were less of a threat than the Jamaicans. Did I do that? No. Just like every other group, I put the Albanians where they deserve to be rated. If anyone has a problem with bias, it's probably the guy named "AlbaniaUnited."

Virtually every article regarding Albanian organized crime centered around or stemmed from the Rudaj gang. I've lost track as to how many times I've explained this but I guess I have to do it again. The Rudaj gang had a couple dozen members. The main leaders were Alex Rudaj and Nardino "Lenny" Colotti, both originally Gambino associates. They had about 50 video poker machines in parts of the Bronx, Westchester, and Queens. They temporarilly took over two Greek gambling clubs in Queens that were paying tribute to the Gambino and Lucchese families. They later branched out into other crimes. The leaders amassed about $5 million worth of legitimate property before they were taken down. They had the standoff with the Gambinos at the gas station in New Jersey. They shot a low level Bonanno associate. And they "took over" John Gotti's old table at Raos' Restaurant. It took one federal indictment to take down virtually the entire organization and six of the top leaders received lengthy prison sentences. That's it. The organization, which was more like a single mob crew, lasted about 10 years or so. Very far from a "sixth family."

Tell me this, what news has there been of Albanian gangsters since the Rudaj leaders were convicted in 2006? Off the top of my head, I can only think of one instance, and that's where some Albanians were arrested as part of a low level robbery crew working for the Genovese family. Albanians are still active to be sure, but they are more low key than the Rudaj gang was and they are still relatively small compared to certain other groups.

You putting the Italians, Russians, Asians (Chinese), and Colombians among the top in New York is correct. But the Cubans belong there as well. As I said before, after the LCN, the Cubans (known as "The Corporation") operate the largest illegal gambling operations in New York, as well as New Jersey and Florida. They are heavily involved in drug trafficking, money laundering, and other crimes. Their operations are far bigger than those of Albanian groups. At most, the Albanians would be #6 after those other groups.

Check out these links -
http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/fls/PressRele ... 16-04.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3568413.stm

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 6:37 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Your right its a word I wont see connected to Albanians in America. At least not now. But Albanians are involved in pratically everything an organised crime organisation is involved in. If you go to Europe you will see that connection though. With heroin which is worth pretty much what Cocaine is in America. There is alot of money in Marijuana. I give credit to the Jamicans being smart enough to switch from hard drugs and taking over the marijuana market because is makes alot of money and light sentences. So they can become rich and see their grandkids. I see you live in Toronto I have a Jamaican friend from Toronto.
Balkan Organized Crime

The term “Balkan Organized Crime” applies to organized crime groups originating from or operating in Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro, Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania.

Balkan organized crime is an emerging threat in the U.S. While several groups are active in various cities across the country, they do not yet demonstrate the established criminal sophistication of traditional Eurasian or La Cosa Nostra (LCN) organizations. However, they have proven themselves capable of adapting to expanding criminal markets and becoming involved in new activities, much like the historical growth of other organized crime groups.

History of Balkan Organized Crime

Organized crime in the Balkans has its roots in the traditional clan structures. In these largely rural countries, people organized into clans with large familial ties for protection and mutual assistance. Starting in the 15th century, clan relationships operated under the kanun, or code, which values loyalty and besa, or secrecy. Each clan established itself in specific territories and controlled all activities in that territory. Protection of activities and interests often led to violence between the clans. The elements inherent in the structure of the clans provided the perfect backbone for what is considered modern-day Balkan organized crime.

Many years of communist rule led to black market activities in the Balkans, but the impact of these activities was limited to the region. When communism collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it led to the expansion of Balkan organized crime activities. Criminal markets once closed to Balkan groups suddenly opened, and this led to the creation of an international network. Within the Balkans, organized crime groups infiltrated the new democratic institutions, further expanding their profit opportunities.

Balkan criminal organizations have been active in the U.S. since the mid-1980s. At first, these organizations were involved in low-level crimes, including bank robberies, ATM burglaries, and home invasions. Later, ethnic Albanians affiliated themselves with the established LCN families in New York, acting as low-level participants. As their communities and presence have become more established, they have expanded to lead and control their own organizations.

There is no single Balkan “Mafia,” structured hierarchically like the traditional LCN. Rather, Balkan organized crime groups in this country translated their clan-like structure to the United States. They are not clearly defined or organized and are instead grouped around a central leader or leaders. Organized crime figures maintain ties back to the Balkan region and have established close-knit communities in many cities across the nation.

Albanian organized crime activities in the U.S. include gambling, money laundering, drug trafficking, human smuggling, extortion, violent witness intimidation, robbery, attempted murder, and murder. Balkan organized crime groups have recently expanded into more sophisticated crimes including real estate fraud.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 2nd, 2008, 6:39 pm

Balkan organized crime

The Balkan Organized Crime (BOC initiative, which consists of addressing organized criminal activity emanating from Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia-Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), and Greece, is a relatively new program, and a very high profile endeavor on the part of the FBI's Organized Crime Section (OCS) and DOJ's Organized Crime and Racketeering Section (OCRS). Balkan organized crime is an emerging organized crime problem with transnational ramifications that has been identified and is being addressed in 12 FBI divisions throughout the United States.

Balkan organized crime groups, particularly those composed of ethnic Albanians, have expanded rapidly over the last decade to Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Great Britain, and the Scandinavian countries, and are beginning to gain a foothold in the United States. In the last year or two, European nations have recognized that Balkan organized crime is one of the greatest criminal threats that they face. European police organizations now estimate that Balkan organized crime groups control upwards of 70% of the heroin market in some of the larger European nations, and are rapidly taking over human smuggling, prostitution and car theft rings across Europe.

Domestically, Albanian organized crime groups have been involved in murders, bank and ATM burglaries, passport and visa fraud, illegal gambling, weapons & narcotics trafficking, and extortion. In New York City, the Albanians have actually challenged the LCN for control of some traditional criminal activities which have historically been the mainstay of LCN operations. Albanian OC groups have also formed partnerships with the Gambino, Genovese, and Luchese LCN families to facilitate specific crimes.

While the Albanian organized crime groups have a well-deserved reputation in underworld circles for extreme violence, they are also knowledgeable about United States sentencing guidelines. For example, rather than rob a bank at gun-point with employees and customers present, and potentially receive a long sentence, we have seen them burglarize the bank after hours by smashing into unguarded ATMs through brute force.

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress03/ashley103003.htm

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Richboy17 » September 3rd, 2008, 7:56 am

When the Albanians work for the mafia, they are just bagmen, hitmen, drug traffickers, and muscle. They do what the niggers did in the 60's and 70's.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by youngspade » September 3rd, 2008, 8:23 am

Richboy17 wrote:When the Albanians work for the mafia, they are just bagmen, hitmen, drug traffickers, and muscle. They do what the niggers did in the 60's and 70's.

Niggers?

You made an A'y-Ok post until you said that.




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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by VostokSila » September 3rd, 2008, 8:55 am

This is all very interesting to me.. keep going.

I am very curious to fights with Albanian Mafia. Was there any fights with them? who did they fight? I mean on US soil.
Please share as much as possible about this as I am very interested.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 3rd, 2008, 3:44 pm

You're giving JohnnyRed too much credit. I don't think enough of him to let our past debates influence my opinion. I simply go with the facts. And you can think I'm Italian all you want, but I am not. I am mostly of English descent, some Danish. If I wanted to "downsize" the Albanians, I would have said they were less of a threat than the Jamaicans. Did I do that? No. Just like every other group, I put the Albanians where they deserve to be rated. If anyone has a problem with bias, it's probably the guy named "AlbaniaUnited."
No I'm not biased but I have read alot about Albanian organised crime groups. The majority of them have said directly or implied that Albanian OC groups are among the top criminal groups in New York. Some even went as far as labelling them as the very top group.
Virtually every article regarding Albanian organized crime centered around or stemmed from the Rudaj gang. I've lost track as to how many times I've explained this but I guess I have to do it again.
Why are you explaining something that doesnt make sense. We're talking about Albanian organised crime in New York. I HATE how everyone thinks Alex Rudaj was the most powerful Albanian mobster in New York. It makes me very frustrated because he came no where near the top Albanian rankings. When thinking about it. The guy did not even operate like an Albanian. He made a name for his organisation (The Corporation) one, although his group was mainly Albanian, he let outsiders in two, he wasen't involved in anything except for gambling, loan sharking, and extortion. This man did not operate like an Albanian would. He operated like an idiot would. Albanians do not label their organisations with names. Or let outsiders IN. They might work with outsiders such as members of the LCN or others but never let them inside the group.
The Rudaj gang had a couple dozen members. The main leaders were Alex Rudaj and Nardino "Lenny" Colotti, both originally Gambino associates. They had about 50 video poker machines in parts of the Bronx, Westchester, and Queens. They temporarilly took over two Greek gambling clubs in Queens that were paying tribute to the Gambino and Lucchese families. They later branched out into other crimes. The leaders amassed about $5 million worth of legitimate property before they were taken down. They had the standoff with the Gambinos at the gas station in New Jersey. They shot a low level Bonanno associate. And they "took over" John Gotti's old table at Raos' Restaurant. It took one federal indictment to take down virtually the entire organization and six of the top leaders received lengthy prison sentences. That's it. The organization, which was more like a single mob crew, lasted about 10 years or so. Very far from a "sixth family."
See this is where you need to be corrected thewestside. First of all I'll tell you what I'll tell anyone speaking ignorantly. Do not speak unless you are sure. The last 7 gamblind spots the Rudaj Organisation took over were the ones listed below. I don't how many were paying tribute to the LCN before he took them over. Here are the names of the clubs that Rudaj took over most recently.

• Athenia on Newtown Avenue

• The Saloni Social Club on 30th Avenue

• And Sanidisi on 31st Street

• Skutarija on 23rd Avenue

• An unidentified club on 30th Avenue

• Zeus on 23rd Avenue

Rudaj lead an attack in August 2001 on two members of the Lucchese crime family who ran a gambling racket inside a Greek social club called Soccer Fever at 26-80 30th St. in Queens, according to the indictment. The gambling dens the mob ran in the NY area were very lucrative. The seven clubs listed above were among 50 gambling spots the gang ran. The RICO indictment attempted to seize $5.8 million in ill-gotten gains from seven defendants and $3.4 million from all 22 defendants, based on the gambling allegations. 26 defendents were arrested. On Friday, June 16, 2006, Alex Rudaj, 38, was sentenced to 27 years in federal prison for racketeering, extortion and gambling offenses. Three of Rudaj's co-defendants also got hit with stiff sentences in U.S. District Court in Manhattan by Judge Denise Cote. 27 years for Nardino "Lenny" Colotti of the Bronx. 26 years and 7 months for Nick "Big Nick" Dedaj of Yonkers. 22 years for Prenka "Frankie" Ivezaj of Queens. The men had faced maximum sentences of life in prison. They were also ordered on Friday to forfeit a total of $5.75 million and four properties to the government. They also must each serve five years of supervised release. Sixteen other defendants from the Rudaj Organization have already pleaded guilty. 20 out of 26 members were convicted. 'The Organisation' is still in business but no where near where it was because of the main leaders being convicted. Alex Rudaj and two members of his organisation also held the Gambino Boss Arnold Squiteri up at gun point and told him to tell his men to drop there weapons. The Gambinos backed down. To many, this was a sign of the tremendous fading influence and power of the Italian La Cosa Nostra in the United States.


This was not a single mob crew 'thewestside'. Alex Rudaj was the leader of a criminal organisation until June 16, 2006. They did not amass of a fortune of about 5 million dollars. Thats BS coming from your ignorance because you have no possible way of knowing how much they amassed. You say they amassed a fortune of about $5 million because thats what the RICO indictment wanted to take away from him. They had much more money than that. $5.8 million dollars is what the RICO indictment tried to take away. Not to mention another $3.4 million from the other defendents as well as four propterties. I was watching the Sopranos yesterday and Johnny Sack just heard his plea bargain. He had to give away his house, car, and I think around $7 million. But he was the boss of one of the LCN families in New York. The RICO indictment takes away anything that they can prove you made illegaly. That doesnt mean its as much as you have. They owned 50 gambling spots across New York. Had several dozens of members. Were also invovled in extortion and loan sharking. I would rate them as a sixth family. Because lets not forget the Colombo family is a family and they only have 75-85 family members. The Rudajs only had several dozens of members but all of them were eligable for violence and muder. This is why I call you biased 'thewestside'. Because your rate the Italians too high because of the past. In the past the Italians were the absolute rulers of crim in New York. But its 2008 now.


Tell me this, what news has there been of Albanian gangsters since the Rudaj leaders were convicted in 2006? Off the top of my head, I can only think of one instance, and that's where some Albanians were arrested as part of a low level robbery crew working for the Genovese family. Albanians are still active to be sure, but they are more low key than the Rudaj gang was and they are still relatively small compared to certain other groups.
Obviously Albanians are more low key than Alex Rudaj like I mentioned previously. What do you mean by small compared to other groups? If your referring to single Albanian groups then yes. Albanians usually operate in small groups to avoid infiltration. Its the absolute smartest thing to do. Mostly every Albanian gangster speaks Albanians which is extremely difficult to record because even if caught on tape it is very hard to translate being as we have so many dialects within the language. I would like a source for that robbery crew if you don't mind. I have not heard of that.
You putting the Italians, Russians, Asians (Chinese), and Colombians among the top in New York is correct. But the Cubans belong there as well. As I said before, after the LCN, the Cubans (known as "The Corporation") operate the largest illegal gambling operations in New York, as well as New Jersey and Florida. They are heavily involved in drug trafficking, money laundering, and other crimes. Their operations are far bigger than those of Albanian groups. At most, the Albanians would be #6 after those other groups.

Check out these links -
http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/fls/PressRele ... 16-04.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3568413.stm

I have looked over all your articles that you gave me and it still doesnt change my mind about the Albanians surpassing the Cubans. At least you rated the Albanians as number 6. That's probably the highest Im going to get you to. So I guess again we will just have to agree to disagree.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 3rd, 2008, 4:01 pm

VostokSila wrote:This is all very interesting to me.. keep going.

I am very curious to fights with Albanian Mafia. Was there any fights with them? who did they fight? I mean on US soil.
Please share as much as possible about this as I am very interested.

No fights have been established between Albanians and Italians in New York. There have been numerous encounters and challenges though. One for exampled is with Arnold Squitieri. One problem that Squitieri had to deal with in the late 1990's was the challenge of ethnic Albanian gangs to the New York Five Families. One particular threat was an organization called The Corporation, run by mobster Alex Rudaj. At one point, Squitieri arranged a meeting with Rudaj at a gas station in New Jersey. When the Corporation mobsters arrived, 30 armed Gambino men came out to confront them. At that point, one Corporation mobster held a gun to Squitieri's head and another pointed a gun at a gas pump threatening to blow everyone up. The Gambino men put down their guns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Squitieri

Arnold "The Squid" Squitieri
Image
VS.
Alex "Xhaxhi Rudaj" Rudaj
Image

Live on pay per view. Also coming to a theatre near you.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 3rd, 2008, 5:05 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:No I'm not biased but I have read alot about Albanian organised crime groups. The majority of them have said directly or implied that Albanian OC groups are among the top criminal groups in New York. Some even went as far as labelling them as the very top group.
"Balkan organized crime is an emerging threat in the U.S. While several groups are active in various cities across the country, they do not yet demonstrate the established criminal sophistication of traditional Eurasian or La Cosa Nostra (LCN) organizations. However, they have proven themselves capable of adapting to expanding criminal markets and becoming involved in new activities, much like the historical growth of other organized crime groups."
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

You won't find a single reputable law enforcement report that says Albanian groups are the "very top" group in New York or anywhere else in the U.S.
Why are you explaining something that doesnt make sense. We're talking about Albanian organised crime in New York. I HATE how everyone thinks Alex Rudaj was the most powerful Albanian mobster in New York. It makes me very frustrated because he came no where near the top Albanian rankings. When thinking about it. The guy did not even operate like an Albanian. He made a name for his organisation (The Corporation) one, although his group was mainly Albanian, he let outsiders in two, he wasen't involved in anything except for gambling, loan sharking, and extortion. This man did not operate like an Albanian would. He operated like an idiot would. Albanians do not label their organisations with names. Or let outsiders IN. They might work with outsiders such as members of the LCN or others but never let them inside the group.
You seem to be going off your own assumptions here. JohnnyRed has also said that the Rudaj gang was not the most powerful Albanian crime group in the U.S. If that's so, who exactly is? If there are other Albanian groups more powerful and dangerous than the Rudaj gang, why haven't there been any indictements? Or even any news about them? The reason the Rudaj gang became well known was because they became significant enough to where they were on the FBI's radar. Evidently no other Albanian group in New York or the U.S. has done the same. The fact is, the Rudaj gang was typical of many Albanian groups at this point, especially in New York. Many of it's members started out working for the LCN families before they branched out on their own. The exception in the case of the Rudaj gang was that they attempted to take on the LCN directly, while most Albanian gangsters who are not indepedent work with or for the LCN.
See this is where you need to be corrected thewestside. First of all I'll tell you what I'll tell anyone speaking ignorantly. Do not speak unless you are sure. The last 7 gamblind spots the Rudaj Organisation took over were the ones listed below. I don't how many were paying tribute to the LCN before he took them over. Here are the names of the clubs that Rudaj took over most recently.

• Athenia on Newtown Avenue

• The Saloni Social Club on 30th Avenue

• And Sanidisi on 31st Street

• Skutarija on 23rd Avenue

• An unidentified club on 30th Avenue

• Zeus on 23rd Avenue

Rudaj lead an attack in August 2001 on two members of the Lucchese crime family who ran a gambling racket inside a Greek social club called Soccer Fever at 26-80 30th St. in Queens, according to the indictment. The gambling dens the mob ran in the NY area were very lucrative. The seven clubs listed above were among 50 gambling spots the gang ran. The RICO indictment attempted to seize $5.8 million in ill-gotten gains from seven defendants and $3.4 million from all 22 defendants, based on the gambling allegations. 26 defendents were arrested. On Friday, June 16, 2006, Alex Rudaj, 38, was sentenced to 27 years in federal prison for racketeering, extortion and gambling offenses. Three of Rudaj's co-defendants also got hit with stiff sentences in U.S. District Court in Manhattan by Judge Denise Cote. 27 years for Nardino "Lenny" Colotti of the Bronx. 26 years and 7 months for Nick "Big Nick" Dedaj of Yonkers. 22 years for Prenka "Frankie" Ivezaj of Queens. The men had faced maximum sentences of life in prison. They were also ordered on Friday to forfeit a total of $5.75 million and four properties to the government. They also must each serve five years of supervised release. Sixteen other defendants from the Rudaj Organization have already pleaded guilty. 20 out of 26 members were convicted. 'The Organisation' is still in business but no where near where it was because of the main leaders being convicted. Alex Rudaj and two members of his organisation also held the Gambino Boss Arnold Squiteri up at gun point and told him to tell his men to drop there weapons. The Gambinos backed down. To many, this was a sign of the tremendous fading influence and power of the Italian La Cosa Nostra in the United States.
You're getting mixed up. First, I was talking in reference to the Greek clubs they temporarilly took over that were paying tribute to the LCN; specifically the Gambino and Lucchese families. They were Stamatis and Soccer Fever in Queens. The other clubs you listed above had no connection to the LCN. They didn't have 50 gambling outlets but 50 video poker machines dispersed amongst 13 gambling outlets according to the indictment.

Agents estimate that it controlled at least 50 video poker machines throughout Queens, the Bronx, and Westchester County. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/march06/albanian032906.htm
This was not a single mob crew 'thewestside'. Alex Rudaj was the leader of a criminal organisation until June 16, 2006. They did not amass of a fortune of about 5 million dollars. Thats BS coming from your ignorance because you have no possible way of knowing how much they amassed. You say they amassed a fortune of about $5 million because thats what the RICO indictment wanted to take away from him. They had much more money than that. $5.8 million dollars is what the RICO indictment tried to take away. Not to mention another $3.4 million from the other defendents as well as four propterties. I was watching the Sopranos yesterday and Johnny Sack just heard his plea bargain. He had to give away his house, car, and I think around $7 million. But he was the boss of one of the LCN families in New York. The RICO indictment takes away anything that they can prove you made illegaly. That doesnt mean its as much as you have. They owned 50 gambling spots across New York. Had several dozens of members. Were also invovled in extortion and loan sharking. I would rate them as a sixth family. Because lets not forget the Colombo family is a family and they only have 75-85 family members. The Rudajs only had several dozens of members but all of them were eligable for violence and muder. This is why I call you biased 'thewestside'. Because your rate the Italians too high because of the past. In the past the Italians were the absolute rulers of crim in New York. But its 2008 now.[/b]
John "Johnny Sac" Sacrimoni is a fictional character on a TV show. Why are you even bringing him up?

Law enforcement authorities said that virtually the entire Rudaj organization was indicted. The total membership of the gang probably did not exceed 30. That is comparable to a New York LCN crew, which on average has about 10 members and 30-50 associates. The Rudaj organization in no way amounted to a "sixth family." After being active for only about a decade, it was taken down in a single indictment. The New York LCN families are repeatedly hit with indictment after indictment, year after year, and are still standing. The smallest New York LCN family, the Colombos, have an estimated 100-110 members and 300-500 associates. The New York LCN families are involved in a wide array of illicit operations, as well as legitimate businesses. They control labor unions and influence the such industries as the waterfront, garbage hauling, construction, trucking, etc. The Rudaj gang was not comparable in any way. I rate the LCN families in New York according to recent indictments, i.e. over the last decade or so, not from the distant past. The LCN is still considered by law enforcement to be the most significant organized crime threat in New York.

Here is the complete Rudaj indictment in question, which I have posted before many times. It is the most reliable source available on the matter. Much more reliable than your guesses and assumptions.
http://www.websupp.org/data/SDNY/1:04-c ... 1-SDNY.pdf
Obviously Albanians are more low key than Alex Rudaj like I mentioned previously. What do you mean by small compared to other groups? If your referring to single Albanian groups then yes. Albanians usually operate in small groups to avoid infiltration. Its the absolute smartest thing to do. Mostly every Albanian gangster speaks Albanians which is extremely difficult to record because even if caught on tape it is very hard to translate being as we have so many dialects within the language. I would like a source for that robbery crew if you don't mind. I have not heard of that.
What I mean is Albanians are not yet big enough in numbers in the U.S., and the scale of their criminal activities are not big enough to where they match certain other crime groups.

Read this FBI bulletin from 1998 on YACS burglary rings -
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_53436001
I have looked over all your articles that you gave me and it still doesnt change my mind about the Albanians surpassing the Cubans. At least you rated the Albanians as number 6. That's probably the highest Im going to get you to. So I guess again we will just have to agree to disagree.
I'm afraid you are falling into the same trap JohnnyRed did, which is the temptation to rate the Albanians higher than they should be simply because you are Albanian. I personally rate the Albanians in New York according to where the evidence shows they should be rated.
AlbaniaUnited wrote:No fights have been established between Albanians and Italians in New York. There have been numerous encounters and challenges though. One for exampled is with Arnold Squitieri. One problem that Squitieri had to deal with in the late 1990's was the challenge of ethnic Albanian gangs to the New York Five Families. One particular threat was an organization called The Corporation, run by mobster Alex Rudaj. At one point, Squitieri arranged a meeting with Rudaj at a gas station in New Jersey. When the Corporation mobsters arrived, 30 armed Gambino men came out to confront them. At that point, one Corporation mobster held a gun to Squitieri's head and another pointed a gun at a gas pump threatening to blow everyone up. The Gambino men put down their guns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Squitieri
First, you should probably get your information from sources more reliable than Wikipedia.

As I've explained many times, the main reason why the LCN didn't react to the Rudaj gang was because there was already a ton of law enforcement heat on them. The LCN families knew that it was only a matter of time before the Rudaj gang got taken down. Hell, the Lucchese family has more hitters (killers) than the Rudaj gang had total members. Frankly, it's surprising that the Gambinos even bothered to meet with them at the New Jersey gas station. The Rudaj gang was greatly outnumbered and to get the Gambinos to back off, one of Rudaj's guys pointed his shotgun at a gas pump and threatened to blow everyone up. Thinking he might be crazy enough to do so, Squitieri ordered his guys to back off. Albanian posters like to point to this incident as if it marked some great turning point in organized crime. Give me a break. It was as meaningless as when the Rudaj guys stormed into Raos' Restaurant and "took over" John Gotti's old table. Please. How exactly do you take over a table? I've talked to a number of people who grew up in New York or still live in the area and they've said everyone basically thought it was a joke. The only people who take the Rudaj gang taking over a table seriously are JohnnyRed and his buddy that keeps the newspaper story in his room. The Rudaj gang showed quite a bit of balls by temporarilly taking over two Greek clubs that were paying tribute to the LCN. They held their ground at the gas station. So, in essence, you could say they won some battles. But as I've said many times, they lost the war. They were quickly taken down by the FBI as the LCN knew they would be.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by AlbaniaUnited » September 3rd, 2008, 8:22 pm

"Balkan organized crime is an emerging threat in the U.S. While several groups are active in various cities across the country, they do not yet demonstrate the established criminal sophistication of traditional Eurasian or La Cosa Nostra (LCN) organizations. However, they have proven themselves capable of adapting to expanding criminal markets and becoming involved in new activities, much like the historical growth of other organized crime groups."
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

You won't find a single reputable law enforcement report that says Albanian groups are the "very top" group in New York or anywhere else in the U.S.
The only thing that source says is that they dont show the sophistication of Italian organised crime groups. They don't say they aren't as powerful or influencial. Sophistication –noun 1. sophisticated character, ideas, tastes, or ways as the result of education, worldly experience, etc.: the sophistication of the wealthy.
2. change from the natural character or simplicity, or the resulting condition.
3. complexity, as in design or organization.
4. impairment or debasement, as of purity or genuineness.
5. the use of sophistry; a sophism, quibble, or fallacious argument.


Again you've proven yourself with no argument 'thewestside'. You keep repeating the same old sources which in this case doesn't relate to the argument. Obviously they're going to say Balkan organised crime is not as sophisticated. Italians are organised by name. They have their very own hierarchy that they made up. Boss- Underbosse's - Captains - Soldiers - Associates. While Albanians are simplly organised. They revolve around a few central leaders keeping their group numbers small for infiltration purposes and it's the Albanian way of not trusting too many people.

You seem to be going off your own assumptions here. JohnnyRed has also said that the Rudaj gang was not the most powerful Albanian crime group in the U.S. If that's so, who exactly is? If there are other Albanian groups more powerful and dangerous than the Rudaj gang, why haven't there been any indictements? Or even any news about them? The reason the Rudaj gang became well known was because they became significant enough to where they were on the FBI's radar. Evidently no other Albanian group in New York or the U.S. has done the same. The fact is, the Rudaj gang was typical of many Albanian groups at this point, especially in New York. Many of it's members started out working for the LCN families before they branched out on their own. The exception in the case of the Rudaj gang was that they attempted to take on the LCN directly, while most Albanian gangsters who are not indepedent work with or for the LCN.
No I am not going off on my own assumptions. I live here, right here where it started, in the Bronx. I know of these people down here because I see them around and know who they are. I'm not going to say I know alot of Albanian mobsters here in the Bronx. But mainly all of them are. Have you seen that Gjelosh guy fron the Rudajs?
Image
Theres hundreds of Albanians like this walking around here and especially hanging around the Gurra and Two Star cafe which is 5 minutes away from me. Trust me, alex Rudaj is not held up as a hero in Albanian communities. There are Albanians in Westchester and Brooklyn with much more money then ''Allie Boy''.

Albanian gangs more powerful then the Rudaj org. are very much out there. But like I said all other Albanian crews are very low key, small and speak Albanian making wire tapping almost impossible. They havent been brought to show because a gang does not get media coverage unless they're indicted. You should know this 'thewestside'. When do you hear about the Gambinos until an indictment comes down? Never unless your reading about John Gotti, or the past members of the Gambinos.

You're getting mixed up. First, I was talking in reference to the Greek clubs they temporarilly took over that were paying tribute to the LCN; specifically the Gambino and Lucchese families. They were Stamatis and Soccer Fever in Queens. The other clubs you listed above had no connection to the LCN. They didn't have 50 gambling outlets but 50 video poker machines dispersed amongst 13 gambling outlets according to the indictment.

Agents estimate that it controlled at least 50 video poker machines throughout Queens, the Bronx, and Westchester County. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/march06/albanian032906.htm


“We had a sense they were an organization, but we were surprised at how aggressively they challenged New York’s Italian organized crime families,” said the FBI case agent assigned to the investigation. “They started taking territory, beating up ‘made men.’

Listen 'thewestside' I agree with you that they were not quite "sixth family" material. but they were coming close to matching the Colombos. Strength wise. How many 'clippers' as you say would the Colombos have. Also I think in my opinion, that the Rudaj gang should be given a lot of respect because it pretty much spit on Italian organised crime. Pointing a gun at Gambino Boss' face. Beating up made men for territory.

John "Johnny Sac" Sacrimoni is a fictional character on a TV show. Why are you even bringing him up?


Because the Sopranos is accurate about many things. They have people who make you seem like JohnnyRed working on that show. Johnny Sack had to give up his house, car and I think around $7 million. Now he's a boss of one of the NY five families. His networth for sure, had to have exceeded $7 million. But again the RICO indictment asks for all ill gotten gains and money which they can prove in the case was obtained illegaly. So the fact that they asked this guy for $5.8 million is telling you something. He was rich beyond that number.

Law enforcement authorities said that virtually the entire Rudaj organization was indicted. The total membership of the gang probably did not exceed 30. That is comparable to a New York LCN crew, which on average has about 10 members and 30-50 associates. The Rudaj organization in no way amounted to a "sixth family." After being active for only about a decade, it was taken down in a single indictment.


WRONG. Authorities said that The Corporation is now largely out of business and most of its leaders are behind bars. That doesnt mean all. But most. 26 people were indicted. 20 were convicted. 4 convicted, 16 pled guilty. So again how would you know that the gang probably did not exceed 30? Oh yeah thats right I forgot, you don't. Congratulations for again opening your mouth about something you can only guess about.

The New York LCN families are repeatedly hit with indictment after indictment, year after year, and are still standing. The smallest New York LCN family, the Colombos, have an estimated 100-110 members and 300-500 associates.


According to Jerry Capeci whose word I'll take before yours anyday. There are only 75-85 Colombo members.


The New York LCN families are involved in a wide array of illicit operations, as well as legitimate businesses. They control labor unions and influence the such industries as the waterfront, garbage hauling, construction, trucking, etc. The Rudaj gang was not comparable in any way. I rate the LCN families in New York according to recent indictments, i.e. over the last decade or so, not from the distant past. The LCN is still considered by law enforcement to be the most significant organized crime threat in New York.


But what you must keep in mind is that they dont hold the dominant stance they once held. Now you have much more competition. Albanians, Russians, Chinese, Colombians. All holding their own stances.

Here is the complete Rudaj indictment in question, which I have posted before many times. It is the most reliable source available on the matter. Much more reliable than your guesses and assumptions.
http://www.websupp.org/data/SDNY/1:04-c ... 1-SDNY.pdf


Again I can see how someone can get frustrated with you because you seem you think that your some kind of mafia guru and the rest of us stay making guesses and assumptions.

What I mean is Albanians are not yet big enough in numbers in the U.S., and the scale of their criminal activities are not big enough to where they match certain other crime groups.

Read this FBI bulletin from 1998 on YACS burglary rings -
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_53436001


Thats like 7 pages long I skimmed most of it but I got a life. Just summarize what your point in that article is. Secondly, there are over 600,000 Albanians in America. Im just guessing on that number, it's probably higher. In 2000 alone there were 500,000 Albanians in America. 1% of any of these Albanian numbers unfortunantly go into organised crime because of the generation coming from complete anarchy back home. That gives you about 6000 criminals across the north-east.

I'm afraid you are falling into the same trap JohnnyRed did, which is the temptation to rate the Albanians higher than they should be simply because you are Albanian. I personally rate the Albanians in New York according to where the evidence shows they should be rated.


No I am not falling into the same trap as JohnnyRed did. If it was up to me. If god asked me where would you like Albanians in the organised crime world. I would tell him right at the bottom. I'd rather have them all being upstanding citizens. I dont personally want to rate the Albanians higher. But I think they should be placed into the position they deserve. You keep downsizing them and hyping up Albanian organised crime. Jerry Capeci, The nation's foremost EXPERT on the American Mafia says there are 75-85 Colombo family members and you say 100-110. Do you honestly think you know more then him? You are the Italian Johnny my friend. You dont look at the facts. You are Italian and are here to boost Italians just like Johnny did with Albanians.

First, you should probably get your information from sources more reliable than Wikipedia.


Well that wikipedia article was right. I've read about that incident numerous times and it seemed that wikipedia nailed it right on the head.

As I've explained many times, the main reason why the LCN didn't react to the Rudaj gang was because there was already a ton of law enforcement heat on them. The LCN families knew that it was only a matter of time before the Rudaj gang got taken down.


Wait, what? Didn't you just tell me not to make guess and assumptions? What the hell do you think your doing right here? Your pretty much making a BS assumption. Your telling us about why the Gambino family didn't do something as if you were the underboss and knew exactly what was going on. Only a dozen FBI agents were following the Rudaj Organisation. How many agents are on the Gambinos? "The LCN families knew it was only a matter of time before the Rudaj gang was taken down". So I guess you know what the LCN knows, thinks and feels now. Hahahahahahahaah get outta here man. I honestly thought you had more common sense then the average poster on here. You talk like JohnnyRed. Assuming things and talking about your ethnic groups criminal organisations like you know what is really going on. You pretty much just told us why and what the Gambinos thought without any source from an FBI agent or anything. Nice debate you got going buddy.

Hell, the Lucchese family has more hitters (killers) than the Rudaj gang had total members.


Now I have asked you numerous times to supply a source for Lucchese clippers and you didnt. So until you do please close your mouth :).

Frankly, it's surprising that the Gambinos even bothered to meet with them at the New Jersey gas station. The Rudaj gang was greatly outnumbered and to get the Gambinos to back off, one of Rudaj's guys pointed his shotgun at a gas pump and threatened to blow everyone up. Thinking he might be crazy enough to do so, Squitieri ordered his guys to back off.


Exactly you find it surprising because you rate the Italians too high. The Gambinos (second most powerful Italian crime family) BOSS met with the Rudajs because they were damaging business and creditability obviously. And the Albanians stuck a gun to his face and threatened to kill everyone. Even this incident you find a way to twist it into Italian favor.

Albanian posters like to point to this incident as if it marked some great turning point in organized crime. Give me a break. It was as meaningless as when the Rudaj guys stormed into Raos' Restaurant and "took over" John Gotti's old table. Please. How exactly do you take over a table? I've talked to a number of people who grew up in New York or still live in the area and they've said everyone basically thought it was a joke. The only people who take the Rudaj gang taking over a table seriously are JohnnyRed and his buddy that keeps the newspaper story in his room.


It was a turning point in criminal history here in the United States. When was the last time an Albanian or non-Italian in general stuck a gun to the Gambino boss' face and got away with it? The Gambinos didn't even react. They thought they could intimidate the Rudajs. Alex Rudaj came with two members thinking Arnold Squitieri would be a man and come as a reasonable person. The very fact that 30 Gambinos members came out armed proves that Italians do resort to violence as much as they used to its just now they are incapable of the violence they once were able to use. The people you talked to were obviously biased as yourself and wanted to do the same thing your doing. Downsize the organisation by any means possible. I agree the table thing was not very, if at all, important. But the gas station thing was.

But the Raos incident wasen't a joke. You take over a table because the table might be kept empty due to historical people sitting there on occasion when they were alive. You take it over by parking your ass in the seat. Raos is a very exclusive and well respected restaurant. Especially for Italians.

The Rudaj gang showed quite a bit of balls by temporarilly taking over two Greek clubs that were paying tribute to the LCN. They held their ground at the gas station. So, in essence, you could say they won some battles. But as I've said many times, they lost the war. They were quickly taken down by the FBI as the LCN knew they would be.


Lmaoooooo. But how in the world would you know what the LCN knew? This is why I KNOW your biased. You have a fascination with Italian organised crime because you are Italian yourself. You come on here and people think your reasonable, on neutral ground and intelligent because you show alot of facts about the Italian mafia such as what they're involved in, etc.... But you go way too far. Now your going to tell us that you know what the LCN even THINKS of doing? I have tried to maintain respect for everyone on this forum. Even the ones that went as far as to say Albanians are Nazis, pussies and arabs because they were obviously ignorant enough to talk and think like that. But you 'thewestside' have surprised me I must say. I have to now count you as a biased, ignorant poster with all due respect. I apologize.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 4th, 2008, 2:42 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:The only thing that source says is that they dont show the sophistication of Italian organised crime groups. They don't say they aren't as powerful or influencial. Sophistication –noun 1. sophisticated character, ideas, tastes, or ways as the result of education, worldly experience, etc.: the sophistication of the wealthy.
2. change from the natural character or simplicity, or the resulting condition.
3. complexity, as in design or organization.
4. impairment or debasement, as of purity or genuineness.
5. the use of sophistry; a sophism, quibble, or fallacious argument.

Again you've proven yourself with no argument 'thewestside'. You keep repeating the same old sources which in this case doesn't relate to the argument. Obviously they're going to say Balkan organised crime is not as sophisticated. Italians are organised by name. They have their very own hierarchy that they made up. Boss- Underbosse's - Captains - Soldiers - Associates. While Albanians are simplly organised. They revolve around a few central leaders keeping their group numbers small for infiltration purposes and it's the Albanian way of not trusting too many people.
I'm repeating old sources which don't relate to the argument? You're the one who brought up Johnny Sac from The Sopranos. Talk about not relating to the argument.

Do you really need the FBI to tell you that Albanian groups are not as powerful or influential as the Italians in New York? A while back you yourself told JohnnyRed that the Italians were the most powerful in New York. Why are you backtracking now? Tell me, how in any way would the Albanians even begin to compare to La Cosa Nostra? The illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, and drug trafficking operations run by the LCN dwarf those run by Albanian groups. Do the Albanians control labor unions and influence legitimate industries such as the waterfront, garbage hauling, construction, trucking, etc.? No. Albanians are where the Italians were 75 years ago. Overall, they are in small groups running relatively small operations at this point. Mainly illegal gambling clubs. Video poker machines. Some loansharking. Some extortion. Some drug trafficking. Many of them are still involved in burglaries, ATM robberies, etc. That you would even insinuate that they could be as powerful or influential as La Cosa Nostra shows you have lost all objectivity.
Albanian gangs more powerful then the Rudaj org. are very much out there. But like I said all other Albanian crews are very low key, small and speak Albanian making wire tapping almost impossible. They havent been brought to show because a gang does not get media coverage unless they're indicted. You should know this 'thewestside'. When do you hear about the Gambinos until an indictment comes down? Never unless your reading about John Gotti, or the past members of the Gambinos.[/i][/b]
That's basically my point. Organized crime groups that authorities consider signficant threats are investigated, indicted, and prosected. I can give you a list a mile long of indictments related to the five New York LCN families just this decade. If the Albanians were as big a threat as you claim they are, there would be more indictements involving them than there has been, to say nothing of media coverage. Like I said before, except for the Rudaj gang, the only Albanian gangsters that I can think of off the top of my head that have been indicted in recent years are those associated with the LCN. The most well known being Zef Mustafa, a high level Albanian associate who has long been a part of the Gambino family's Locascio crew. He has made more money working for the LCN than the Rudaj gang ever did fighting against it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2005-02-15/ ... ar-batter/
“We had a sense they were an organization, but we were surprised at how aggressively they challenged New York’s Italian organized crime families,” said the FBI case agent assigned to the investigation. “They started taking territory, beating up ‘made men.’
I'm almost always the first to refer to the FBI. But the claim that the Rudaj gang "beat up made men" is not correct. At least there as never been any specific information proving it. As the indictment shows, the gang assaulted and beat up Greek guys working in gambling clubs that were paying tribute to the LCN. The gang pointed guns at Arnold Squitieri and other Gambinos. They reportedly shot a low level Bonanno associate. All affronts to the LCN's authority to be sure, but there has never been a record of any actual made guy being assaulted by them.

But even more to the point, let's say that the Rudaj gang had beaten up some made guys? What would that mean in the long run? As much as some Albanain posters might like to think so, the Rudaj gang taking over two Greek gambling clubs, taking over John Gotti's old table at Raos, holding their ground at the gas station, and shooting a low level Bonanno associate in no way equals Albanians "pushing aside" the LCN families. Desite all the media hoopla when the gang was riding high, hindsight has shown that it was basically a blip on the radar screen. Similar to other upstart groups in the past who have tried to take on the LCN and failed.
Listen 'thewestside' I agree with you that they were not quite "sixth family" material. but they were coming close to matching the Colombos. Strength wise. How many 'clippers' as you say would the Colombos have. Also I think in my opinion, that the Rudaj gang should be given a lot of respect because it pretty much spit on Italian organised crime. Pointing a gun at Gambino Boss' face. Beating up made men for territory.
The Rudaj gang in no way began to match the Colombo family. As I said before, the Colombos have an estimated 100-110 made members and 300-500 associates. The Rudaj gang was but a fraction of that number. The Colombos operate in all five buroughs of New York, New Jersey, Florida, Nevada, and California. Besides large scale illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, and drug trafficking operations, they are involved in labor union racketeering in the construction and trucking industries, have interests in various legitimate businesses, and are involved in newer sophisticated crimes such as stock fraud. The fact is, the Rudaj gang basically equaled a single Colombo crew.

JohnnyRed has also made the claim that the Rudaj gang "spit in the face" of the Italians. Even if that were true, what did it get them in the long run? Sure, they showed a lot of moxy but did they last? No. They got taken down in a single indictment. The Colombos take multiple indictments every year, year after year, decade after decade, and are still standing. Why? Because they are an organized crime family. Not a crew like the Rudaj gang was.
Because the Sopranos is accurate about many things. They have people who make you seem like JohnnyRed working on that show. Johnny Sack had to give up his house, car and I think around $7 million. Now he's a boss of one of the NY five families. His networth for sure, had to have exceeded $7 million. But again the RICO indictment asks for all ill gotten gains and money which they can prove in the case was obtained illegaly. So the fact that they asked this guy for $5.8 million is telling you something. He was rich beyond that number.
Give me a break. I love The Sopranos as much as anyone but if you have to use material from the show for your argument, than you really have nothing.
WRONG. Authorities said that The Corporation is now largely out of business and most of its leaders are behind bars. That doesnt mean all. But most. 26 people were indicted. 20 were convicted. 4 convicted, 16 pled guilty. So again how would you know that the gang probably did not exceed 30? Oh yeah thats right I forgot, you don't. Congratulations for again opening your mouth about something you can only guess about.
OK, that's 26 people total. And that is "most," according to the authorities. How many do you think are actually remaining? Probably very few. Whatever the number, the gang itself is gone for all intents and purposes.
According to Jerry Capeci whose word I'll take before yours anyday. There are only 75-85 Colombo members.
I've kept track of estimates regarding the estimated size of the New York LCN families, as well as others, for years. All the estimates come from federal or state authorities. All estimates are going to have their highs and lows. But, on average, the Genovese and Gambino families are estimated to have about 200 members. The Bonanno family is estimated to have 115-135 members. The Lucchese family is estimated to have 100-130 members. And the Colombo family is estimated to have 100-110 members. Capeci's figures, which were from a few years ago, were the lowest I have ever seen. No other estimate given from any official source has ever had a New York family below 100 members.

This is the 2004 report on organized crime from the state of New Jersey. In it, it cites the Colombos as having 112 made members.
http://www.state.nj.us/sci/pdf/ocreport.pdf

I can give you a list of 97 names that have been confirmed as made members of the Colombo family from press reports, indictments, and media articles. And that list is certainly not all inclusive. So Capeci's estimate of 75-85 members is simply too low.
But what you must keep in mind is that they dont hold the dominant stance they once held. Now you have much more competition. Albanians, Russians, Chinese, Colombians. All holding their own stances.
Nobody is claiming the LCN holds the power it once did. And yes, there are now rival crime groups. However, these groups have not proven to be a big a problem for the LCN as many media reports have claimed. By and large, these groups are active within their own ethnic communities only. The reason why the Rudaj gang got so much attention was because what they did was largely the exception to the rule. No groups are encroaching on the Mafia's turf in it's interests over labor unions and legimate industries. And not even in it's illicit operations for the most part. The one exception where the LCN has lost ground to other crime groups is drug trafficking, and that's because the business is simply too big for any one group to control from top to bottom.

One of the best reports on the current state of La Cosa Nostra is at the link below. Here are a few key excerpts -

In recent years, the LCN has been severely crippled by law enforcement, and over the past decade has been challenged in a number of its criminal markets by other organized crime groups. Nevertheless, with respect to those criteria that best define the harm capacity of criminal organizations, it is still pre-eminent. The LCN has greater capacity to gain monopoly control over criminal markets, to use or threaten violence to maintain that control, and to corrupt law enforcement and the political system than does any of its competitors. As one eminent scholar has also pointed out, “no other criminal organization [in the United States] has controlled labor unions, organized employer cartels, operated as a rationalizing force in major industries, and functioned as a bridge between the upperworld and the underworld” (Jacobs, 1999:128). It is this capacity that distinguishes the LCN from all other criminal organizations in the U.S.

La Cosa Nostra’s monopoly control over various illegal markets, and its diversification into legal markets, has so far not been matched by any other criminal organization in the United States. This is so despite its having been substantially weakened over the last decade.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/218555.pdf
Here is the complete Rudaj indictment in question, which I have posted before many times. It is the most reliable source available on the matter. Much more reliable than your guesses and assumptions.
http://www.websupp.org/data/SDNY/1:04-c ... 1-SDNY.pdf
Thats like 7 pages long I skimmed most of it but I got a life. Just summarize what your point in that article is. Secondly, there are over 600,000 Albanians in America. Im just guessing on that number, it's probably higher. In 2000 alone there were 500,000 Albanians in America. 1% of any of these Albanian numbers unfortunantly go into organised crime because of the generation coming from complete anarchy back home. That gives you about 6000 criminals across the north-east.
I have had this discussion with JohnnRed before, who also claimed those high numbers of Albanians in the U.S. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 113,661 people in the U.S. claimed Albanian ancestry. Now, there were no doubt more than that, but nowhere appraoching 500,000. It might be that high by the time of the next census in 2010 but that remains to be seen.
No I am not falling into the same trap as JohnnyRed did. If it was up to me. If god asked me where would you like Albanians in the organised crime world. I would tell him right at the bottom. I'd rather have them all being upstanding citizens. I dont personally want to rate the Albanians higher. But I think they should be placed into the position they deserve. You keep downsizing them and hyping up Albanian organised crime. Jerry Capeci, The nation's foremost EXPERT on the American Mafia says there are 75-85 Colombo family members and you say 100-110. Do you honestly think you know more then him? You are the Italian Johnny my friend. You dont look at the facts. You are Italian and are here to boost Italians just like Johnny did with Albanians.
Well, at least you have a more healthy outlook on your fellow Albanians, and don't glorify in the minority that are criminals like JohnnyRed does.

Capeci can throw out whatever numbers he wants. Despite what his website says, he isn't the foremost expert on the American Mafia. The FBI, Justice Department, and other federal and state agencies are. And if you go by the average estimate they have given for the Colombo family over the last decade, Capeci's figure of 75-85 is low.

I'll say this one more time. I am not Italian. Both sides of my family come from England. I think there is also some Danish ancestry somewhere along the way but I'm not sure. No Italian blood whatsoever. At least none that I'm aware of.
Wait, what? Didn't you just tell me not to make guess and assumptions? What the hell do you think your doing right here? Your pretty much making a BS assumption. Your telling us about why the Gambino family didn't do something as if you were the underboss and knew exactly what was going on. Only a dozen FBI agents were following the Rudaj Organisation. How many agents are on the Gambinos? "The LCN families knew it was only a matter of time before the Rudaj gang was taken down". So I guess you know what the LCN knows, thinks and feels now. Hahahahahahahaah get outta here man. I honestly thought you had more common sense then the average poster on here. You talk like JohnnyRed. Assuming things and talking about your ethnic groups criminal organisations like you know what is really going on. You pretty much just told us why and what the Gambinos thought without any source from an FBI agent or anything. Nice debate you got going buddy.
Like I've said, I've spoken with people who live in those respective areas where the Rudaj gang operated and know more of the inside details than most. These aren't made members by any means but they know people who are and what happened is fairly common knowledge. I usually don't mention this because it isn't from official sources but these people have proven that they know what they are talking about. And it's "shooters," not "clippers." The Lucchese family has always been known for having a lot of shooters (or killers) despite being one of the three smaller New York families.
Exactly you find it surprising because you rate the Italians too high. The Gambinos (second most powerful Italian crime family) BOSS met with the Rudajs because they were damaging business and creditability obviously. And the Albanians stuck a gun to his face and threatened to kill everyone. Even this incident you find a way to twist it into Italian favor.
No, what I'm saying is that the inicident didn't mean as much as you, JohnnyRed, and other Albanian posters repeatedly claim. You look at it as some great turning point or landmark in organized crime. It was nothing of the kind. It was a standoff at a gas station in New Jersey. No more, no less.
It was a turning point in criminal history here in the United States. When was the last time an Albanian or non-Italian in general stuck a gun to the Gambino boss' face and got away with it? The Gambinos didn't even react. They thought they could intimidate the Rudajs. Alex Rudaj came with two members thinking Arnold Squitieri would be a man and come as a reasonable person. The very fact that 30 Gambinos members came out armed proves that Italians do resort to violence as much as they used to its just now they are incapable of the violence they once were able to use. The people you talked to were obviously biased as yourself and wanted to do the same thing your doing. Downsize the organisation by any means possible. I agree the table thing was not very, if at all, important. But the gas station thing was.
How was the gas station incident important in the long run? Where is the Rudaj gang now? If this was indeed a turning point in organized crime, why haven't other Albanian groups followed in the footsteps of the Rudaj gang and tried to take on the LCN? Like I keep saying, the gang showed a lot of balls and you could say they won some battles. But they lost the war.
But the Raos incident wasen't a joke. You take over a table because the table might be kept empty due to historical people sitting there on occasion when they were alive. You take it over by parking your ass in the seat. Raos is a very exclusive and well respected restaurant. Especially for Italians.


It was looked at as a joke by everybody except the Rudaj gang and Albanian internet posters. I mean, it just shows how hard the Rudaj gang was trying to impress people by pulling that stunt. It was nonsense like that which brought them to the attention of law enforcement in the first place and led to their demise.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 4th, 2008, 3:01 pm

Here are some past posts from a few longtime posters on another organized crime forum. These guys were born and raised in New York and were able to give more insight into what exactly happened regarding the Rudaj organization.


The Albanians were allied and partly controlled by a guy named Lenny from the Bronx. He was with Skinny Phil from Morris Park for years. When Skinny Phil died, Lenny was passed over to another guy in the same crew of the Gambinos who was based in the Arthur Ave section of the Bx. Lenny always had a bunch of Albanians with him. There was an incident, that is well known in the Bronx, where Lenny and a couple of Albanians gave beatings to a couple of made guys from another family. I can't remember their names right now. Anyway, When Lenny goes back to his guy, he gets told "well you want to hit made guys, now you're on your own". He basically gets hung out to dry. Lenny goes and gets his Albanian crew (the Rudaj guys) and decides that they were going to take over everything that this particular crew had. Most of it was in the Bronx, but there was some stuff in Westchester and Queens. This is where the gas station incident comes in. In the end, whether is was a BS story or not, Lenny and the Albanians got to keep their spots. There are a bunch of different theories on why this happened, but the Gambino guys basically got told to go fuck themselves. The Albanians wound up getting indicted and ultimately convicted. And most of them, including Lenny are serving 20 plus year bids. The funny thing is that the places that were taken are still operating, but are now subject to forfeiture to the Feds, as they were properties that were owned by Rudaj and his guys.

-----------------------------------------------

Frankie Loc had an Albanian guy with him, but he is pretty Americanized. (He's also in the can now too by the way). You're right about there being a lot of Albanians on Belmont, but they pretty much come and go as they please and don't have to stay in any particular area. The Genovese and Lucchese guys both use Albanians as associates if there's a buck to be made. Maybe there was a big distinction before (60s and 70's) but now they are looked on like any other "white guys". That's cause there are a lot of Mexicans and other Central and South Americans on Arthur Ave. There are still a lot of Albanians around, but many of them have moved out into nicer areas. Arthur Avenue was a jumping off point for them and as they started making a few dollars, they moved into nicer areas, just like the Italians did. I have a strong feeling that what went down with the Gambinos was just a question of this particular crew not being liked (they were the old zip guys who were loyal not to the Gotti faction) and the reluctance on the part of the other crews in the family to really go to war with a bunch of 30 something guys with absolutely nothing to lose. Remember, most of the made guys are older guys who are already very wealthy. Does a 60 or 70 somthing guy with a couple of million dollars in property and legit businesses want to start shooting it out with a bunch of crazy Albanians? Sure there are still some tough guys, and some legit shooters, but it doesn't make sense to start something like the Wild West over a couple of coffee shops and joker poker machines.
Just my take. BTW---I grew up on Arthur Avenue and 187th during the 70's and 80's

-----------------------------------------------

The Luchese didn't get punked nor did the Gambino's. Nothing happened with the table at raio's. Nardino Coletti wanted to not only get made but that over as capo for the skinny guy. He waged war on the old time zip crew of the Gambino's in morris park. They were relatives of Castellano from the other side and multi millionaires. Gotti regime decided to leave them out to dry because of that. So, he pushed them into retirement. There was Bonanno and Genovese clubs up and down the avenue and not one got touched. The Bonanno's would have destroyed that crew and Nardino would walk on the other side of the street past a Genovese club. The reason the other families didn't intervene was because the boss of the family left them on their own. Secondly, the Luchese have more killers than any other family and never would have been punked down by that crew. Nardino was an earner with MEGA BALLS though. THat crew was mixed with Italians and Albanians.

------------------------------------------------

The Luchese's did nothing about their associate being pistol whipped because the whole scene was too hot. That Gambling then was raided shortly afterwards by LE. The Albanians by that time...where be heavly investigated by both the FBI and LE..... The walls were closing in on the Albanians. LCN knew it. Well at least the Lucheses knew it. It still baffles me that Zeke went and confronted these guys at a gas station. THis also leads me to believe that the Gambino might have been splintered into groups at this time. Was Zeke really the Street Boss for the whole family?? We only have this information from the mouth of Greg Depalma via Jack Falcone. It's very possible that the Brooklyn faction of the Gambino's had their own leadership that was running it's own faction. I have read several Law Enorcement Crime reports that state the Gambino Family has been running in Factions and groups instead of one strong leadership like when Gotti was on the street. Stronger evidence of this is the very fact that Zeke the supposed street boss would meet face to face with an opposing OC crime. At this time there were at least 80-90 street soldiers on the street and could have handled the situation had Zeke really had the powerbase that he supposedly had. Remember the Jack Falcone indictment only included the CT faction and DePalma's crew ...as well as Zeke and Sisca. That is not allot of info to go on when looking into the family as a whole.

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picasso backed me in the past on this. The gambino's in bronx were relatives of paul and carlo so the gotti's left them out to dry and lenny and rudaj knew it. When they seen a Bonnano or Genovese club they crossed the street. Also, the raio's story was a joke. The Luchese's would have destroyed them. they have more killers and cowboys than anyother family. Bottom line is they took advatange of some old time zips who were left to die. Guys who earned more in a year than gotti earned in his lifetime.

------------------------------------------------

That's true....the guys that were on the losing end were Joe Gambino, his nephew Sal and the Mascia's....there were other GAMBINO joints right across the street from there (crews of Vinnie Artuso and Tore) and they were not touched, never mind Genovese and Bonanno joints. This all stemmed from Lenny feeling like he was hung out to dry by Joe over an incident where Lenny had fucked up. Joe inherited Lenny ( who was a smart and ballsy guy in his own right) from Skinny Phil when he died and felt like he got fucked over by his superiors and decided to take matters into his own hands. Oddly enough, from what I know, the government moved for forfeiture of all their assets and they wound up not only in the can but pretty hurt from losing all the property they had amassed.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by razbojnik » September 4th, 2008, 3:25 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:
Haha, you just described about half of Toronto.

Believe me you dont have to tell me. If only you could have seen what my Jamican friend showed me there loool.
What? Cause Toronto was boring as hell for me that's why I moved to Stip...

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by youngspade » September 4th, 2008, 4:02 pm

thewestside wrote:Here are some past posts from a few longtime posters on another organized crime forum. These guys were born and raised in New York and were able to give more insight into what exactly happened regarding the Rudaj organization.


The Albanians were allied and partly controlled by a guy named Lenny from the Bronx. He was with Skinny Phil from Morris Park for years. When Skinny Phil died, Lenny was passed over to another guy in the same crew of the Gambinos who was based in the Arthur Ave section of the Bx. Lenny always had a bunch of Albanians with him. There was an incident, that is well known in the Bronx, where Lenny and a couple of Albanians gave beatings to a couple of made guys from another family. I can't remember their names right now. Anyway, When Lenny goes back to his guy, he gets told "well you want to hit made guys, now you're on your own". He basically gets hung out to dry. Lenny goes and gets his Albanian crew (the Rudaj guys) and decides that they were going to take over everything that this particular crew had. Most of it was in the Bronx, but there was some stuff in Westchester and Queens. This is where the gas station incident comes in. In the end, whether is was a BS story or not, Lenny and the Albanians got to keep their spots. There are a bunch of different theories on why this happened, but the Gambino guys basically got told to go fu-- themselves. The Albanians wound up getting indicted and ultimately convicted. And most of them, including Lenny are serving 20 plus year bids. The funny thing is that the places that were taken are still operating, but are now subject to forfeiture to the Feds, as they were properties that were owned by Rudaj and his guys.

-----------------------------------------------

Frankie Loc had an Albanian guy with him, but he is pretty Americanized. (He's also in the can now too by the way). You're right about there being a lot of Albanians on Belmont, but they pretty much come and go as they please and don't have to stay in any particular area. The Genovese and Lucchese guys both use Albanians as associates if there's a buck to be made. Maybe there was a big distinction before (60s and 70's) but now they are looked on like any other "white guys". That's cause there are a lot of Mexicans and other Central and South Americans on Arthur Ave. There are still a lot of Albanians around, but many of them have moved out into nicer areas. Arthur Avenue was a jumping off point for them and as they started making a few dollars, they moved into nicer areas, just like the Italians did. I have a strong feeling that what went down with the Gambinos was just a question of this particular crew not being liked (they were the old zip guys who were loyal not to the Gotti faction) and the reluctance on the part of the other crews in the family to really go to war with a bunch of 30 something guys with absolutely nothing to lose. Remember, most of the made guys are older guys who are already very wealthy. Does a 60 or 70 somthing guy with a couple of million dollars in property and legit businesses want to start shooting it out with a bunch of crazy Albanians? Sure there are still some tough guys, and some legit shooters, but it doesn't make sense to start something like the Wild West over a couple of coffee shops and joker poker machines.
Just my take. BTW---I grew up on Arthur Avenue and 187th during the 70's and 80's

-----------------------------------------------

The Luchese didn't get punked nor did the Gambino's. Nothing happened with the table at raio's. Nardino Coletti wanted to not only get made but that over as capo for the skinny guy. He waged war on the old time zip crew of the Gambino's in morris park. They were relatives of Castellano from the other side and multi millionaires. Gotti regime decided to leave them out to dry because of that. So, he pushed them into retirement. There was Bonanno and Genovese clubs up and down the avenue and not one got touched. The Bonanno's would have destroyed that crew and Nardino would walk on the other side of the street past a Genovese club. The reason the other families didn't intervene was because the boss of the family left them on their own. Secondly, the Luchese have more killers than any other family and never would have been punked down by that crew. Nardino was an earner with MEGA BALLS though. THat crew was mixed with Italians and Albanians.

------------------------------------------------

The Luchese's did nothing about their associate being pistol whipped because the whole scene was too hot. That Gambling then was raided shortly afterwards by LE. The Albanians by that time...where be heavly investigated by both the FBI and LE..... The walls were closing in on the Albanians. LCN knew it. Well at least the Lucheses knew it. It still baffles me that Zeke went and confronted these guys at a gas station. THis also leads me to believe that the Gambino might have been splintered into groups at this time. Was Zeke really the Street Boss for the whole family?? We only have this information from the mouth of Greg Depalma via Jack Falcone. It's very possible that the Brooklyn faction of the Gambino's had their own leadership that was running it's own faction. I have read several Law Enorcement Crime reports that state the Gambino Family has been running in Factions and groups instead of one strong leadership like when Gotti was on the street. Stronger evidence of this is the very fact that Zeke the supposed street boss would meet face to face with an opposing OC crime. At this time there were at least 80-90 street soldiers on the street and could have handled the situation had Zeke really had the powerbase that he supposedly had. Remember the Jack Falcone indictment only included the CT faction and DePalma's crew ...as well as Zeke and Sisca. That is not allot of info to go on when looking into the family as a whole.

------------------------------------------------

picasso backed me in the past on this. The gambino's in bronx were relatives of paul and carlo so the gotti's left them out to dry and lenny and rudaj knew it. When they seen a Bonnano or Genovese club they crossed the street. Also, the raio's story was a joke. The Luchese's would have destroyed them. they have more killers and cowboys than anyother family. Bottom line is they took advatange of some old time zips who were left to die. Guys who earned more in a year than gotti earned in his lifetime.

------------------------------------------------

That's true....the guys that were on the losing end were Joe Gambino, his nephew Sal and the Mascia's....there were other GAMBINO joints right across the street from there (crews of Vinnie Artuso and Tore) and they were not touched, never mind Genovese and Bonanno joints. This all stemmed from Lenny feeling like he was hung out to dry by Joe over an incident where Lenny had #%@& up. Joe inherited Lenny ( who was a smart and ballsy guy in his own right) from Skinny Phil when he died and felt like he got #%@& over by his superiors and decided to take matters into his own hands. Oddly enough, from what I know, the government moved for forfeiture of all their assets and they wound up not only in the can but pretty hurt from losing all the property they had amassed.

Nice POST

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Azure9920 » September 4th, 2008, 4:23 pm

razbojnik wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:
Haha, you just described about half of Toronto.

Believe me you dont have to tell me. If only you could have seen what my Jamican friend showed me there loool.
What? Cause Toronto was boring as hell for me that's why I moved to Stip...
You're just looking in the wrong spots lol....

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by Faciulina » September 4th, 2008, 4:31 pm

please be honest albaniaunited this topic should have not opened there is no any albanian mafia in new york people like rudaj were associated with lcn not independent they are nothing in usa the albanian mob is present only in europe

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 4th, 2008, 4:39 pm

Faciulina wrote:please be honest albaniaunited this topic should have not opened there is no any albanian mafia in new york people like rudaj were associated with lcn not independent they are nothing in usa the albanian mob is present only in europe
There is no single Balkan “Mafia,” structured hierarchically like the traditional LCN. Rather, Balkan organized crime groups in this country translated their clan-like structure to the United States. They are not clearly defined or organized and are instead grouped around a central leader or leaders. Organized crime figures maintain ties back to the Balkan region and have established close-knit communities in many cities across the nation.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread post by thewestside » September 4th, 2008, 4:41 pm

thewestside wrote:
Faciulina wrote:please be honest albaniaunited this topic should have not opened there is no any albanian mafia in new york people like rudaj were associated with lcn not independent they are nothing in usa the albanian mob is present only in europe
There is no single Balkan “Mafia,” structured hierarchically like the traditional LCN. Rather, Balkan organized crime groups in this country translated their clan-like structure to the United States. They are not clearly defined or organized and are instead grouped around a central leader or leaders. Organized crime figures maintain ties back to the Balkan region and have established close-knit communities in many cities across the nation.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm
I should add that while a number of guys in the Rudaj organization were originally associated with the Gambinos, like Lenny Colletti and Alex Rudaj, they eventually branched out on their own and became independent.

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