Albanian mafia in NY

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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AlbaniaUnited
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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 2:49 pm

thewestside wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:Quite pretending you have any idea about the Colombo family member estimate before Capeci. You no where close to Capeci's level of expertise on the mafia.


Why is this so hard for you to understand? It isn't a case of Capeci vs. me. It is a case of Capeci (and one estimate which he got from a law enforcement source) against the average of several other estimates from law enforcement sources. If you were being honest, you would admit that the latter is more reliable.

There is only 96 members on that list. Not 110 or 112. Whats wrong with you 'westside'? Can't you count?


The list is not all inclusive. It is only those names that have been able to be verified independently. But the main point is that 96 names being listed here shows that estimate of 75-85 members of the Colombo Family is too low. Can't you count?

When I said manpower 'westside' I meant clippers, shooter, men capable of running in a gambling spot and beating up everyone inside. The Colombos do not have 375 of these type of men. The majority of them are old and incapable of running at all. The Rudajs were all capable of doing this as they have proved it by doing it. This is why I said in terms of manpower, it is debatable while in terms of wealth and overall power. The Colombos exceed the Rudajs.


If you want to use that selective definition of "manpower," that is fine. But even then, an LCN Family with at least 100 members and 3-5 times as many associates is going to have more shooters and enforcers than a gang with a total membership of a few dozen.

The gambling dens the mob ran in the NY area were very lucrative. The seven clubs listed above were among 50 gambling spots the gang ran. The RICO indictment attempts to seize $5.8 million in ill-gotten gains from seven defendants and $3.4 million from all 22 defendants, based on the gambling allegations.

http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2004/11/ ... mafia.html


First off, thank you for providing a source on this. Second, you should keep in mind that "gambling spots" can mean many things. Gambling clubs? Yes. But most of that 50 gambling spots figure was likely outlets for the gang's video poker machines.

I will need to see some cold hard evidence of this. I would also like to see from you some evidence that Russians pay tribute to any mafia family in NY because it is hard for me to believe that people like the Russians would pay the Italians.


I'm not going to hold your hand in every little thing. Russian crime groups being more powerful in both New York and the rest of the U.S. than Albanian groups is common knowledge. This is what I mean by you being "wilfully ignorant." You know the Russians are considered more powerful but you are pretending otherwise.

Russian mobsters have been paying LCN Families in New York since the late 1970's. One of the first and most famous examples is when Russian and Eastern European gangsters developed that fuel tax evasion scam and the LCN moved in and took over the operation, forcing the Russians to make them their partners or at least pay them a tax. Now do all Russian mobsters pay the LCN in all instances? No. But in many instances, that is still the case.

Here again is a link -

In 2003, PMC International, a police consulting agency, described how the Russian mob still has to give the LCN a cut of it's activities in the New York/New Jersey area.
http://www.providencephoenix.com/featur ... 288673.asp

What you don't want to understand is that the tax that you speak of does not even build up to 0.03%. But you talk about it like we are paying the mafia 50% of our paychecks every week. As for the shake down comparison. In the end the Russians and Albanians would end up doing the same thing as the Italians and that would be collect protection money from the business. Except the Italians could do it easier depending on who the owner is. The Italians will be told to ''go fu-- themselves'' before any Albanian or Russian though because of their new found way to steer clear of any sort of conflict.


Nobody said everyone is giving the Mafia 50% of their paychecks. But the built in "mob tax" that New Yorkers pay due to inflated prices induced by organized crime in any number of industries is substantial. And it dwarfs any extortion operations by other groups. Through control of labor unions, industry associations, and key companies, the LCN can inflate costs across the board in the waterfront, garbage hauling, construction, trucking, food wholesaling, and so on. You're telling me you don't see a difference between this and a Russian, Chinese, or Albanian gangster shaking down local businesses in their own communities through the threat of violence?

I did not say the CNN video said the Albanians were among the top groups in New York. They implyed it. They said the Russians and Albanians are carving out peices of the mafias turf which is natural. The new deafeats the old. The Italians are still ranked the top organisation in New York but the Italians continue to lose tremendous strenght while the Russians and Albanians are gaining everyday. The Gambinos are on the verge of extinction for example. They are dividing themselves more and more a lot worse then they did during Castellanos reign and several dozens of members are being indicted every year. 50 or more just this year.


Yes, you could say the video implied the Albanians are one of the top groups in New York. That isn't the disagreement. The disagreement comes from you assuming that simply because the Albanians were mentioned, that they are as powerful as the Russians or Chinese, or even more powerful than other groups like the Cubans. I explained why this is not the case.

The fact that you said "the Gambinos are on the verge of extinction" is proof positive that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Do you realize that many were predicting the Gambino's demise over 15 years ago following the conviction of Gotti? The media, and some law enforcement officials, have historically been very quick and premature in their predictions of the demise of La Cosa Nostra. Only in recent times have they become more careful about making those statements.

There have not been 50 members Gambino members indicted this year. The biggest bust (back in February) involved 87 people - 27 members and 60 associates. As is the usual case, most of the defendants made plea deals and got relatively light sentences. For instance, those in the Gambino administration - Jackie D'Amico, Domenico Cefalu, and Joseph Corozzo - are only doing a few years or so each. So far the biggest one hit was captain Nick Corozzo, who pled out for 15 years. But that was because he was facing murder charges.

In the end, however, the Gambinos are the second strongest LCN Family in the U.S. after the Genovese. They have about 200 members and 600-1,000 associates. They have huge operations in illegal gambling, loansharking, exortion, drug trafficking, labor racketeering, fraud, stolen goods, as well as interests in the waterfront, garbage, construction, and trucking industries. The Gambinos own bars, restaurants, nightclubs, strip clubs, food and beverage wholesaling firms, real estate companies, vending outlets, etc. Very far from being extinct.

The Rudajs sticking a gun at The Squids face and telling the Gambinos to drop their weapons or they'll kill everybody did not symbolise the Albanians taking over the Italian mafia. It represented the new criminals in New York making their own place in the crime world as well as the tremendous loss of strength of the Italians.[/b][/i]


If that was really the case, there would be more examples besides the Rudaj gang of other groups trying to take on the LCN. I'll ask you again to give me some examples. What the Rudaj gang had been done before. For example, black operaters tried taking over the Lucchese Family's numbers territories in New Jersey years ago. But just like the Rudaj gang, they were ultimately not successful.

Once again, the meeting at the gas station was just that - a meeting at a gas station. The Rudaj guys were greatly outnumbered and to get the Gambinos to back off one of them threatened to shoot a gas pump. Did they hold their ground? Yes. Were they showing disrespect to the LCN? Yes. Would such a thing have happened 50 years ago? No. But that meeting, or anything else the Rudaj gang did, only showed that the Albanians - like every other group - are carving out their own piece in the American underworld. But those instances were simply not evidence of some great landmark or turningpoint in the organized crime landscape.

No I did not forget that. Did you forget your life somewhere? The Cuban Corporation is much more powerful then the Rudaj Corporation. You will find no argument from me on that one. I never said otherwise. I have read about the Cuban Corporation but I found a link about them on accident about two years ago and remember reading that they started in Florida or something and expanded to NY and NJ. The Cuban Corporation is very powerful. I would compare it to any of the five families in NY for sure. They might even exceed all of them


The Corporation's founder, Jose Miguel Battle, started out in Florida working for Santo Trafficante, Meyer Lansky, and other LCN members and associates. In terms of it's illegal gambling operations, especially numbers, the Cuban Corporation could match any single New York LCN Family. But, overall, any single New York LCN Family is more powerful.

Before I answer you I would like to say you dont have to bring all Albanians into our argument because it is our argument. This proves your biased and racist towards Albanians. We are talking about NY crime and you mention Albanians being insecure and other BS. Albanians are not insecure and I hope you have an actual convo with an Albanian one day so he can show you just how insecure we are that's all I wish to say on this matter


For crying out loud, I didn't bring Albanians into the argument. You accused me of being biased against Albanians simply because I disagree with some of your claims about them. JohnnyRed did the same thing. And like I said before, Albanian posters are rather well known for creating havoc on organized crime forums and message boards. You and JohnnyRed are evidence of this, being too of the biggest shit-stirrers on this board alone.

Secondly I would like you to name one poster on here who 'pegs me as a fool'. Even Razbojnik who showed the most aggression towards JohnnyRed and Albanians in gerneral has admitted respect for me. Oh wait I forgot Faciulina who thinks there are 3000 Sicilian mobsters outside the American LCN might peg me as a fool. And you because I wont let you say the Italians dominant ever aspect of human life in every single country in the world.


I would agree that Faciulina is the Italian JohnnyRed. But you are really no different. In the beginning you were reasonable but you soon morphed into a JohnnyRed clone.

Daut Kadriovski was one of the very top drug traffickers in Europe. He created a pipeline to Australia with the Albanians in Sydney. Now hes in the U.S operating here. He is a global trafficker. He is one of Americas main sources of Afghan heroin and has liutenants in NY and Philly. How does he qualify as a single trafficker? I don't even know what you mean by this. A ''single trafficker''. Are stupidly implying that hes smuggling the drugs in himself and selling it alone? Ismail Lika was accused of smuggling $125 million worth of heroin during the time the feds investigated him. Why do you continuely downsize every Albanian personality or organisation?[/b][/i]


I'm not trying to downsize Kadriovski or any Albanian. If anything, you are oversizing them like you did here. He is not one of America's main sources of heroin. The vast majority of the heroin smuggled into the U.S. comes from Colombia and Mexico. Relatively little comes from sources in the Middle East, which is where an Albanian trafficker like Kadriovski would get his supply.

Zef Mustafa was a very high-level associate of the Gamino family. He grew up with the Locascio's and considered Tore his father since he was an orphan. Zef Mustafa was considered extremely violent and viscious. He was also a friend of John Gotti, he was caught on tape entering the Ravenite club 115 times during a 3 year span. There is nothing wrong working with an Italian mafia family. He was raised with the Locascios since childhood. Also according to the article you gave me it seems that Zef scared even his fellow wise guys.


Did I say there was anything wrong with Mustafa working for an LCN Family? Quite the opposite. I have repeatedly said that Mustafa made more money working for the Gambinos than Rudaj ever did fighting against them.

Wrong. I live here I have an insight as well as official looks into what Albanians are known for. And that would be Drugs and Arms trafficking even in America.


Yes, the Albanians are involved in both drugs and arms trafficking. But, in terms of drug trafficking, it is still on a relatively small scale compared to other groups and that is not what they are most known for. Like many other groups, the Albanians have their biggest presence in New York. And there, generally speaking, they are most well known for illegal gambling and burglary operations.

Correction it is a somewhat fast decline. Indictments are being handed down like bread at a family table. Wiseguys are flipping more then ever under court pressure and snitches are being placed all over the Italian mafia. It was due to a snitch that all those mafia members were indicted.


Italian crime groups have been in the U.S. for over a century. The New York Families have existed for over 75 years. The LCN began to decline as a whole in the 1970's due to any number of factors but the speed at which it has declined has varied from city to city. New York has always had the largest LCN presence, with five large families compared to a single smaller one in other cities. Today, 750 of the remaining 1,100 members in the American LCN (or about 70%) belong to the five New York families. They get hit with numerous indictments every year. But all the indictments, rats, competition from other groups, etc. do is slowly weaken the families. The only thing that will see the end of the LCN families in New York is general attrtion and that won't be for years to come. Decades really.

Although this guy as well exhaggerates a little bit as well. Not to mention he's Italian. One example would be he said nobody will EVER replace the Italians. Thats a little far fetched. He is right about the Albanians not being as powerful as the Italians in 2008 America. I never argued that.


Isnt' that interesting? When Capeci says something you like, his word is gold. When he says something you don't like, he is "exaggerating." And just like JohnnyRed did, you say he's doing it because he is Italian.

Capeci is correct in saying no other group will ever replace the Italians. And that is simply because the same sociological, political, economic, and law enforcement factors that allowed the LCN to become as powerful in the U.S. as it did are simply not there today for other crime groups.

Well if that is your opinion I respect it. You choose not to respect my opinion and thats find. I don't think the Albanians would be behing the Italians, Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Colombians and Dominicans. But then again I don't know where to place any of these organisations based on one, two, three ranks. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. These seven are very well the most powerful in New york though. Where they are ranked I will not say because I don't know. I'll leave it to you to say since your obviously the God of organised crime.


I would respect you opinion more if it was more researched and consistent. Now you don't think the Albanians would be behind the Italians? See what I mean about you not being able to make up your mind?



-I don't know how to talk to a man with a dictionary and ideas such as yours. I said Daut Kadriovski is one of America's main source of Afghan heroin. You accuse me of saying Daut Kadriovski is the main supplier of American herion. See what I mean? You do not pay attention to what I say. You say New Yorkers pay a substantial tax to the mafia. Thats BS. Like I said again the tax would not add up to 1% of any kind of tax. There are 20,000,000 New Yorkers. If they had to pay a tax of even 2% extra to any company because of the mafia, they would be swimming in cash. Zef Mustafa arguebly made more money then Alex Rudaj. Zef Mustafa did make a substantial amount of money. More money then most Gambino members.
-How are you going to sit here and tell me what Albanians are known for? I live right here where many Albanian crime rings get started. In the Bronx. I know the idea people have of Albanians. Drugs, arms and construction is what we are known for.
-I do not keeping switching side. I have told you numerous times my opinion is that in 2008 the Italians are still the top organised criminal group in New York. Russians are the top organised crime group in the United States. Mexicans are top criminals organised or not in the United States. And this will be my opinion until I am proved otherwise. Capeci's theory of nobody replacing the Italians ever is very far-fetched. What if the Moscow mob started placing Russian gangsters in New York? What if Albania experienced another disaster and another 500,000 Albanians came to the United States? What would happen then? This is why I think he's exhaggerating a little bit too much. Nobody knows what will happen.
-And yes you did bring Albanians into the argument. You started saying things such as Albanians are insecure and other BS. As if that has anything to do with the argument. Which also proves your biased. I am only a clone of JohnnyRed now because I have my own opinions and won't let you say Italians dominate the world. You have proven yourself unreasonable and have given me an image of you being some kind of lifeless computer geek sitting behind a computer all day with no job, no responsibilities anywhere. Honestly if I can ask a personal question what do you do for a living college boy? Convince people Italians dominate the world?

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 2:52 pm

Also one thing I forgot. There was only 96 members on that Colombo list and several of them could have been mis-identified. So Capeci was probably right. His estimate is far closer then yours of 112. Proof that you wish to hype up the Italians to a position they are not in.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 2:56 pm

Faciulina wrote:sorry but you're totally wrong russians and albanians are not anymore what they used to be in middle 1990s they're losing points now we are in 2008 not 1997... the chineses maybe gain points abroad since 1997 although the chinese goverment put its hand in their homeland hong kong so in their country they are weaker than the past... the italians in usa losed point in 1990s but they gain points again at least after 2001 because of the twice tower attack so the italians is getting stronger and stronger in usa since than... and yes according to fbi there are 3.000 italian born mobster in usa outiside local families check the official fbi site please
the albanians are nothing in usa there are at least 15 etnich groups stronger than them in new york only a few albanian shooters are used by gambino's not most like you said ahahah the gambino's are full of sicilian born they don't need albanians to shot somebody that's just in your mind


While Five Families is an excellent book on the LCN in New York, Selwyn Raab's premise that law enforcement pressure on the LCN has lessened due to the 9/11 attacks doesn't really hold water. The regular round of indictments against the five families have continued unabated and even increased in some cases since 2001. The last case of an LCN family actually getting "stronger" would be the Bonannos during the 1990's. And that was due to the fact that the FBI had lowered them as an investigative priority, which allowed the Family to rebuild. The Bureau learned from that mistake and won't make it again.

Generally speaking, the basic trend for all LCN Families is decline due to factors including law enforcement, turncoats, rival crime groups, and above all general attrition. Obviously this decline is going to be much slower in the larger Families and faster in the smaller ones. If you were to rate the remaining LCN Families in the nation, it would look something like this -

Level 1 - the five New York Families are the largest and most active LCN organizations in the U.S.; the ones still considered a "significant organized crime threat"

Genovese
Gambino
Lucchese
Colombo
Bonanno

Level 2 - this list isn't in any particular order but simply shows those Families/areas where there is still "substantial LCN activity," though not nearly on the same level as New York

New England
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Chicago
Detroit

Level 3 - this list isn't in any particular order but simply shows those Families/areas that still have members remaining but are considered weak and of low investigative priority

Buffalo
Northeast Pennsylvania
Pittsburgh
Tampa
New Orleans
Cleveland
Kansas City
St. Louis
Milwaukee
Los Angeles


As for the Albanians in New York, I have already made my case that the Italians, Russians, Chinese, Colombians, and Cubans have a bigger presence. Possibly the Dominicans too. But I can't think of any other groups that I would rate above the Albanians. It is true that the LCN Families continue to use Albanians as enforcers, hit men, debt collectors, etc, although it should be noted that Albanians don't exclusively fill these roles.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 3:52 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:I don't know how to talk to a man with a dictionary and ideas such as yours. I said Daut Kadriovski is one of America's main source of Afghan heroin. You accuse me of saying Daut Kadriovski is the main supplier of American herion. See what I mean? You do not pay attention to what I say.


First off, you're right about you originally saying that Kadriovski is a source for Afghan heroin. I misread that and I apologize. But you should keep in mind that you have misread many more things yourself. And I will remind you again that the heroin supply to the U.S. from the Middle East is relatively little. According to the DEA, it was 8% in 2006 but jumped to 14% in 2007.

You say New Yorkers pay a substantial tax to the mafia. Thats BS. Like I said again the tax would not add up to 1% of any kind of tax. There are 20,000,000 New Yorkers. If they had to pay a tax of even 2% extra to any company because of the mafia, they would be swimming in cash. Zef Mustafa arguebly made more money then Alex Rudaj. Zef Mustafa did make a substantial amount of money. More money then most Gambino members.


Prices in various industries in New York are substiantially higher than other cities in the U.S. due to influence and control by organized crime. This has been true for decades in the shipping industry on the waterfront. A main reason for the decline of the shipping industry in the New York/New Jersey region in past years has been directly due the added costs by the mob, which has forced shipping companies to go elsewhere. The same can be said for the construction and trucking industries, which the mob is still the most involved in overall. The Giuliani adminstration was successful in breaking the mob's almost 50 year iron grip on the garbage hauling industry in New York in the mid-1990's through new regulatory initiatives, although the mob is still involved in the industry. But prior to the industry reforms, it was estimated that the mob added an extra $400-500 million to the already $1 billion garbage industry in New York as a result of inflated prices through the mob's "property rights" system of controlling the business. Prior to law enforcement and regulatory crackdowns in the 1990's, the same was true in the Garment Center, the Fulton Fish Market, the Airports, the Javits Convention Center and New York Colisuem, etc. It should be noted that not all of these inflated costs go directly into the pockets of mafiosi. For example, the extra $400-500 million added by the mob to the garbage business up to the mid-1990's didn't all go directly to the four LCN families involved in the business. A good portion of it went to the mob-connected or owned garbage hauling firms that picked up the trash to begin with. The same with the Garment Center. Not all of the millions added to the trucking and clothing industry in the Center found thier way into the pockets of Tommy Gambino and other mobsters. Gambino alone owned numerous trucking and clothing firms with thousands of employees.

Video following the February Gambino bust; discusses the "mob tax"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWjF94H4lM

Two recent articles on the "mob tax" in the construction industry -

Mob's Shadow Still Falls Across Building Projects (2000)
http://www.thelaborers.net/newspapers/n ... -09-04.htm

New York Public Works Projects Saddled With "Mob Tax" (2005)
http://www.nlpc.org/view.asp?action=vie ... e&aid=1147

How are you going to sit here and tell me what Albanians are known for? I live right here where many Albanian crime rings get started. In the Bronx. I know the idea people have of Albanians. Drugs, arms and construction is what we are known for.


Of all the reports and articles I have read on Albanian organized crime in New York, they have most often been associated with illegal gambling and burglary operations. Other activities as well, including drugs and arms trafficking, but not as much as the first two.

I do not keeping switching side. I have told you numerous times my opinion is that in 2008 the Italians are still the top organised criminal group in New York. Russians are the top organised crime group in the United States. Mexicans are top criminals organised or not in the United States. And this will be my opinion until I am proved otherwise.


The Russians are not considered the top organized crime group in the United States. Where did you get that? The FBI investigates both Italian and Russian crime groups, as well as others I've listed in the past, and they still consider La Cosa Nostra to be the top domestic crime group they investigate. Russian/Eastern European crime groups have generally been considered the next biggest priority and Asian groups third. Of course the DEA, who investigates the drug cartels, considers the Mexicans and Colombians to be the biggest priority. If you had actually done even half the research as you claim to have, you would know this.

Capeci's theory of nobody replacing the Italians ever is very far-fetched. What if the Moscow mob started placing Russian gangsters in New York? What if Albania experienced another disaster and another 500,000 Albanians came to the United States? What would happen then? This is why I think he's exhaggerating a little bit too much. Nobody knows what will happen.


Once again, the sociological, economic, political, and economic factors that allowed La Cosa Nostra to become as powerful in the U.S. as it did in the past are simply not there today for other crime groups. The drug trade could be considered the "new Prohibition" but it isn't quite the same. There is more money to be made but there isn't the wholesale corruption of politicians and law enforcement authorities as in Prohibition. The LCN had half a century to become entrenched before law enforcement really started confronting it. The newer crime groups don't have this same luxury. And, as I've explained before, the ties between ethnic crime groups here in the U.S. and their fellow crime groups in their home countries have generally been overstated. As one former law enforcement official explained to me, the powerful Russian syndicates based in Moscow generally avoid operating in the U.S. directly due to having a "healthy respect" for U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies. Transnational crime groups - Russians, Italians, Albanians, Chinese, etc. - are still a major investigative priority but, so far, there hasn't been evidence that the international syndicates are operating in the U.S. to a great degree. As the same former law enforcement official explained, it's generally a case of your common diaspora gangsterism.

And yes you did bring Albanians into the argument. You started saying things such as Albanians are insecure and other BS. As if that has anything to do with the argument. Which also proves your biased. I am only a clone of JohnnyRed now because I have my own opinions and won't let you say Italians dominate the world. You have proven yourself unreasonable and have given me an image of you being some kind of lifeless computer geek sitting behind a computer all day with no job, no responsibilities anywhere. Honestly if I can ask a personal question what do you do for a living college boy? Convince people Italians dominate the world?


I have never had anything against Albanians as a people. The problem I have is with certain Albanian posters on organized crime forums and message boards that habitually hype Albanian organized crime because they get some twisted sense of pride from it. Many people have noticed this. Not just me. I have never said the Italians dominate the world. More empty and untrue accusations from you.

To answer your question, I have already graduated from college with a Bachelor's in Criminal Justice, including a Minor in Organized Crime studies. I currently work in Juvenile Probation. Posting on organized crime forums is just a hobby, it isn't my life. And even more importantly, when I post on these forums, I don't have an agenda like you, JohnnyRed, and some other Albanian posters do.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 4:07 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Also one thing I forgot. There was only 96 members on that Colombo list and several of them could have been mis-identified. So Capeci was probably right. His estimate is far closer then yours of 112. Proof that you wish to hype up the Italians to a position they are not in.


Every single name on that list as been verified as made, formally inducted members of the LCN by law enforcement authorities in press releases, indictments, government reports, media articles, etc. The list was compiled by a well known poster on organized crime forums. Most of the LCN charts you see floating around the internet are a result of his research.

But here is a case where you have misread something, as you have done numerous times already. It wasn't me who cited 112 Colombo members. It was the 2004 State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation report on organized crime. Why don't you take thier figure into account? Answer: Because you don't want to. Like I said before, if you really had any interest in the actual facts, you would do more research yourself and look at several estimates given by law enforcement as to the size of the Colombo and other New York Families in recent years. But you are not interested in the facts. You are simply content to base your whole argument on a single estimate by Capeci alone because the estimate is relatively low, which you felt bolstered the claim you originally made that the Rudaj gang almost matched them in manpower. Your claim was bogus, as is your stubborn insistence on referring to one estimate alone instead of looking at others as well. Once again, I find it very ironic that you automatically take Capeci's word as pure gold in this instance, but immediately question him when he disagrees with your vision of Albanian organized crime. The truth is, you are selectively picking what you want to believe because it is you who is engaging in all the hype here.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 6:38 pm

What ever you say 'westside'. The Russians are the biggest organised crime group nationally. When coming to the North-east. The Italians are at the top spot. But nationally the Russains exceed them. They operate from the east coast to the west coast. There is about 5,000 members of the Russian mob I think in the United States. I think thats what I read. It was a while ago when I read that specific report.


I don't doubt your knowledge in organised crime. But you continuely downsize other groups. This is what bothers me. You do tend to hype the Italians a bit. No where near the extent that Faciulina does but you do as well. You continuesly give me reports and estimated from over 20 years ago. Like you just did about the mob tax on industries in New York. Most of it was surronding the year 1990. I want 2008 estimates. I want 2008 examples. You will see that the comparison of the mafia in 2008 to that of 1990 is substanially different.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 6:49 pm

The Brooklyn Connection. This man sent $30 million USD over to Kosova to help fund the war. As well as sent entire boeing's full of arms to Albania in disguise of a hunting organisation based in Brooklyn. He owns a roofing company and lives in Brooklyn, New York. This is an in depth look at how Albanian-American criminals exploited and can exploit America's free society to help a Guerilla Army on the other side of the world. This is also another look at how the Albanian criminals forge links with politics even in America. Through the Kosova war by funding them and in return get funded and assisted by the politicians themselves. Thinking these men are doing nothing but organising a couple of conferences and rallies in New York for Kosova's independence.

To those of you who will not watch this entire thing (most of you). Watch 2:07- 2:15 of the first part.









thewestside
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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 7:12 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:What ever you say 'westside'. The Russians are the biggest organised crime group nationally. When coming to the North-east. The Italians are at the top spot. But nationally the Russains exceed them. They operate from the east coast to the west coast. There is about 5,000 members of the Russian mob I think in the United States. I think thats what I read. It was a while ago when I read that specific report.


I don't doubt your knowledge in organised crime. But you continuely downsize other groups. This is what bothers me. You do tend to hype the Italians a bit. No where near the extent that Faciulina does but you do as well. You continuesly give me reports and estimated from over 20 years ago. Like you just did about the mob tax on industries in New York. Most of it was surronding the year 1990. I want 2008 estimates. I want 2008 examples. You will see that the comparison of the mafia in 2008 to that of 1990 is substanially different.


It's not whatever I say. It's whatever the authorities say. Give me one example where I have hyped the Italians by saying something that isn't true. Those two articles I gave you on the "mob tax" in the construction industry were from 2000 and 2005. Did you even bother to read them? The video I posted, which also discussed the "mob tax" in the construction industry was from earlier this year. Did you even bother to watch it?

"There is a mob tax placed on everything from your garbage collection, food delivery, the rent that you pay," he said. "I don't know what the percentage is, but there is a premium that you pay because of the control that organized crime has on labor unions and on the contractors who are engaged in those job sites."
- Mike Gaeta (FBI Special Agent in Charge - Genovese Squad - 2008)

"La Cosa Nostra is the foremost organized criminal threat to American society." - FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/lcnindex.htm#cosa

"Italian organized crime here in the United States is still the most dominant organized crime problem that affects American society." - FBI (2008)
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/ ... ideosearch

"The Genovese Family's power stems from the control of unions and major industries."
- Michael Campi (Special Agent in Charge - FBI New York Organized Crime Branch - 2007)


Here is a partial list of just one New York LCN Family (Genovese) and indictments this decade involving labor unions and legitimate industries -

January 2002 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of ILA, Teamsters, and Carpenters Unions

February 2002 - Indictment involving the Genovese and Gambino Families and control of International Union of Elevator Workers

March 2002 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of ILA Locals on the New Jersey waterfront

February 2003 - Indictment involving the Genovese and Colombo Families and control of the International Union of Operating Engineers

April 2004 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of Carpenters and Plasterers Unions in New York’s drywall industry

July 2004 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of the Roofer's Union

February 2005 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of ILA Locals

July 2005 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family and control of the Amalgamated Transit Union

July 2005 - Indictment involving the Genovese Family, various ILA officials, and control of ILA Locals in New York, New Jersey, and Florida

February 2006 - Indictment of the Genovese Family involving control of the Bakery, Confectionary, and Tobacco Worker’s Union, as well as the Family's control of garbage hauling in Mount Vernon

June 2006 - Indictment of the Genovese Family and control of the garbage hauling business in Connecticut

There are thousands of Russian/Eastern European criminals in the U.S. But for the most part, they are not structured hiearchally like La Cosa Nostra. There is no single "Russian Mafia" in the U.S. They have been a major investigative priority for the FBI for over two decades now but they have never replaced La Cosa Nostra. Try and find me one report that says they have. You won't be able to. Now this isn't a case of me hyping the Italians over the Russians. I'm simply stating a fact.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 7:18 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Four: No the Italians who not be murder experts compared to Albanians as many of the Gambino's main assassins (meaning high-level and very efficient assassin) as Albanians. The main reason they hire Albanians as top level assassins for their families is because many members of their family are incapable of an efficient and precise killing but very little match the efficient killers they hire of other ethnicities. I think it might just be an Eastern European thing. Take Richard Kuklinski for example lol.


The LCN Families employ Albanians as hired hitmen, but not exclusively. They still have plenty of Italian enforcers. The Families have always used other ethnic groups for "muscle work," i.e. hits, beatings, debt collection, arson, etc. The Albanians are no different in this respect. It isn't really because these other groups are "more efficient" than the Italians. It's simply a luxury the Italians have by being at the top of the food chain. Not hyping, just a fact.

And for the record, Kuklinski was a fraud. He wasn't involved in even a fraction of the hits he claimed he was, and that's including Jimmy Hoffa, Carmine Galante, and Paul Castellano.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Richboy17 » September 8th, 2008, 7:45 pm

Correction 'Richboy17' they had over two dozen members. And probably 3-5 times the associates. That would consist of more then a crew. Lol, you should know on this forum the words ''wipe them out'' cause a lot of friction. I don't know much about the 'westies'. Care to provide a membership estimate of what they were involved in or anything? Also for the Demeos.[/quote]

Westies had 75.

thewestside
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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 8:12 pm

Correction 'Richboy17' they had over two dozen members. And probably 3-5 times the associates. That would consist of more then a crew. Lol, you should know on this forum the words ''wipe them out'' cause a lot of friction. I don't know much about the 'westies'. Care to provide a membership estimate of what they were involved in or anything? Also for the Demeos.

I must have missed this quote before. I am going to assume it is from AlbaniaUnited. Just out of curiosity, where does the "probably 3-5 times the associates" come for the Rudaj gang? Once again, the Rudaj gang didn't have "members" and "associates" like the LCN does. It didn't have an induction ceremony that would differentiate between members and associates. The two or three dozen members of the gang were the extent of it's manpower.

Here is a compiled list of Westies members in different eras. It doesn't appear the gang never had more than a dozen or so "harcore" members in it's inner circle at any one time. Comparatively speaking, the Irish Winter Hill Gang in Boston was much more powerful. The Westies hired out as hitmen for the Gambino and Genovese Families and paid 10% of their earnings to the LCN as tribute.

Michael Mickey Spillane (1960-Mid 1970s)
Retired 1973, Murdered- DeMeo, 1977
1) Thomas “Tom” Devaney Murdered
2) Tom “the Greek” Kapatos Murdered
3) Edward “Eddie” Cummiskey Murdered
4) Robert “Little Bobby Lagville- Murdered
5) Julius “Dutch” Grote- Rat
6) Andrew “Andy” Wheeler-
7) Walter Curich- Murdered
8 James McFreane
9) Charlie Spillane
10) Daniel St. John
11) Joseph McGinnity
12) Thomas Callahan
13) Alfred Scott
14) Frank “Sonny” Campbell
15) John Pierce
16) Harry Speditz
17) Hughie Mulligan

James Michael “Jimmy C” Coonan (1973-1986)
1) Francis “Mickey” Featherstone- WPP
2) James Patrick “Jimmy” McElroy- WPP
3) John “Jackie” Coonan Jr- Deceased
4) William “Billy” Bokun- Released
5) Richard “Richie” Ryan- Deceased
6) Thomas “Tommy” Collins- Released
7) Richard “Mugsy” Ritter- Jail
Patrick “Patty” Dugan- Murdered
9) Dennis Curley- Murdered
10) Thomas “Tommy” Hess- Murdered
11) Edward Coonan
12) Edward Sullivan- Deceased
13) William “Billy” Beattie- WPP
14) Francis “Buddy” Leahy
15) Michael “Mickey” Cahill
16) Pete Wilson (Boston)
17) Dennis Stein WPP
18) Anton “Tony” Lucich – Deceased
19) William “Billy” Murtha
20) Richard “Rickey” Tassiello- Murdered
21) Robert “Bobby” Huggard- Deceased
22) George Saflita
23) Charlie Krueger
24) Nick “The Greek” Kagabines
25) James “Jimmy” Russell
26) Donald Mallay
27) James “Jimmy” Judge
28) Bull Maher
29) John Bokun- Deceased
30) Jonathan “Johnny” Halo- Released 1995
31) Michael “Mike” Collins: Released
33) Thomas Moresco - Murdered
34) William Walker- Murdered
35) Patrick Hogan
36) Jimmy Gallagher
37) Sean Steven Ryan- Jail
38) Donald Nash aka Donald J Bowers- Jail

Kevin Kelly (1986-1988)- Jail
1) Kenneth “Kenny” Shannon- Released
2) Joseph Schlereth
3) Larry Patrick
4) Larry Palermo

Bosco “The Yugo” Radonjich (1988-1992)- Serbia
1) Brian Bentley- Released


As for the DeMeo crew, off the top of my head -

Anthony "Nino" Gaggi - was the Gambino Family captain who DeMeo answered to

Roy DeMeo - was a made member with the rank of soldier
Henry Borelli
Joseph Testa - was later made into the Lucchese Family
Anthony Senter
Chris "Harvey" Rosenberg
Dominick Montiglio - more of a go between for Nino Gaggi and the crew
Vito Arena
Joseph Guglielmo
Eddie Grillo

The DeMeo crew was more of a sub-crew within the larger Gambino crew run by Gaggi. There were a few other crew members I haven't listed.

Below is a partial list of the DeMeo crew's murder victims. Estiamates by the authorities for the total killed by the crew range from about 75 to 200.

thewestside
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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 8:12 pm

1. Paul Rothenberg (42 years old) (Murdered July 29, 1973)
Motive: Suspected of cooperating with authorities.
Method: Shot two times in back of head.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (32 years old). Ordered by Anthony Gaggi (47 years old).
Location: Flower Hill, Nassau County.


2. Andrei Katz (22 years old) (Murdered June 13, 1975)
Motive: Cooperating with authorities; testified before Grand Jury.
Method: Stabbed to death; corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Harvey Rosenberg (24 years old).
Accomplices: Roy DeMeo (34 years old), Henry Borelli (27 years old), Anthony Senter (20 years old), Joseph Testa (20 years old), Judith Questal.
Location: Rockaway, Queens.


3. Vito Borelli (Murdered Mid-1975)
Motive: Made insulting remark about Paul Castellano.
Method: Shot to death; corpse dismembered.
Participants: Joseph Massino (32 years old), John Gotti (34 years old), Dominick Napolitano (45 years old), Angelo Ruggiero (34 years old), Frank DeCicco (39 years old), Anthony Rabito (40 years old), Salvatore Vitale (27 years old), Duane Leisenheimer (18 years old), Roy DeMeo (34 years old), others.
Location: Killed in Manhattan. Body dismembered in garage in Queens.


4. Joseph Brocchini (43 years old) (Murdered May 20, 1976)
Motive: Punched Roy DeMeo.
Method: Shot multiple times in back of head.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (35 years old) and Henry Borelli (27 years old).
Accomplices: Harvey Rosenberg (25 years old), Joseph Testa (21 years old), Anthony Senter (21 years old). Authorized by Anthony Gaggi (50 years old).
Location: Woodside, Queens


5. Vincent Governara (34 years old) (Shot June 12, 1976; Died 1 Week Later)
Motive: Broke Anthony Gaggi’s nose in the late 1960s.
Method: Shot to death.
Murderers: Anthony Gaggi (50 years old) and Roy DeMeo (35 years old).
Accomplices: Dominick Montiglio (28 years old).
Location: Bensonhurst, Brooklyn


6. George Byrum (42 years old) (Murdered July 13, 1976)
Motive: Provided information to thieves that led to Anthony Gaggi’s house being robbed.
Method: Shot in face with .380 handgun. Stabbed in back 11 times. Partially decapitated.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (35 years old).
Accomplices: Anthony Gaggi (50 years old) and Anthony Plate (63 years old).
Location: Dade County, Florida.


7. Unidentified Victim #1 (Murdered 1976)
Motive: Unknown. Mentioned to Dominick Montiglio by Roy DeMeo.
Method: Likely shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (35 years old), others.
Location: Body buried in Brooklyn.


8. Unidentified Victim #2 (Murdered 1976)
Motive: Unknown. Mentioned to Dominick Montiglio by Roy DeMeo.
Method: Likely shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (35 years old), others.
Location: Body buried in Brooklyn.


9. Charles/Ruby Stein (61 years old) (Murdered May 15, 1977)
Motive: Killed to erase debts and to take over his loansharking business.
Method: Shot to death with automatic pistol. Corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Edward Grillo (43 years old).
Accomplices: James Coonan (30 years old), William Beattie, Thomas Hess, Richard Ryan, Nicholas Kagabines (46 years old).
Location: Hell’s Kitchen. Disposed of at Ward’s Island.


10. Michael/Mickey Spillane (43 years old) (Murdered May 13, 1977)
Motive: Killed as favor to Irish mobster James Coonan.
Method: Shot five times in arm, stomach, chest and face with two handguns.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (36 years old) and Edward Grillo (43 years old).
Accomplices: Harvey Rosenberg (26 years old), Henry Borelli (28 years old), Joseph Testa (22 years old), Anthony Senter (22 years old).
Location: Woodside, Queens.


11. Jerome Hofaker (23 years old) (Murdered June 1977)
Motive: Involved in altercation with Dennis Testa.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Anthony Senter (22 years old) and Joseph Testa (22 years old).
Location: Canarsie, Brooklyn.


12. Johnathan Quinn (34 years old) (Murdered July 20, 1977)
Motive: Testified before grand jury.
Method: Shot once in back of head with .32 caliber handgun.
Murderer: Peter LaFroscia (28 years old).
Accomplices: Roy DeMeo (36 years old), Henry Borelli (29 years old), Harvey Rosenberg (26 years old), Joseph Testa (22 years old), Anthony Senter (22 years old).
Location: Murdered in Flatlands, Brooklyn. Body left in Staten Island.


13. Cherie Golden (19 years old) (Murdered July 20, 1977)
Motive: Had knowledge of Quinn/DeMeo activities.
Method: Shot 3 times in head with .38 caliber handgun.
Murderer: Anthony Senter (22 years old).
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (22 years old), Roy DeMeo (36 years old), Peter LaFroscia (28 years old), Henry Borelli (29 years old), Harvey Rosenberg (26 years old).
Location: Murdered in Flatlands, Brooklyn. Body found in Gerritsen Beach, Brooklyn.


14. Daniel Conti (28 years old) (Murdered October 29, 1977)
Motive: Killed after botched hijacking; seen as weak link and potential cooperator.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (37 years old), Peter LaFroscia (28 years old), others.
Location: Body found in Lincoln Terrace Park, Brooklyn. Believed shot elsewhere.


15. John Costello (20 years old) (Murdered November 1977)
Motive: Killed after botched hijacking; seen as weak link and potential cooperator.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (37 years old), Peter LaFroscia (28 years old), others.
Location: Brooklyn.


16. Patrick Presenzano/Presinzano (35 years old) (Murdered March 23, 1978)
Motive: Stole jewelry from DeMeo acquaintance, refused to return it.
Method: Beaten then shot to death. Throat slit.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (37 years old), others.
Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn.


17. Michael Mandelino (37 years old) (Murdered March 19, 1978)
Motive: Suspected of setting up DeMeo Crew member Peter LaFroscia for robbery.
Method: Shot multiple times in head.
Participants: Unknown.
Location: Body found on Hinsdale Street in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


18. Nino Martini (38 years old) (Murdered March 19, 1978)
Motive: Present with Mandelino.
Method: Shot multiple times in head.
Participants: Unknown.
Location: Body found on Hinsdale Street in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


19. Kevin Guelli (Murdered April/May of 1978)
Motive: Attempted to scam Harvey Rosenberg out of $10,000 worth of cocaine.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (27 years old), others.
Location: Canarsie, Brooklyn.


20. Gary Gardine (25 years old) (Murdered April/May of 1978)
Motive: Attempted to scam Harvey Rosenberg out of 10 pounds of marijuana.
Method: Shot to death. Corpse burned.
Participants: Likely Harvey Rosenberg (27 years old), others.
Location: Canarsie, Brooklyn.


21. Michael DiCarlo (Murdered May 16, 1978)
Motive: Molested nephew of Lucchese associate.
Method: Blunt force trauma to the head after being shot, stabbed, beaten and sodomized. Corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Anthony Senter (23 years old).
Accomplices: Roy DeMeo (37 years old), Joseph Guglielmo (50 years old), Henry Borelli (29 years old), Joseph Testa (23 years old), Harvey Rosenberg (27 years old).
Location: Flatlands, Brooklyn.


22. Joseph Scorney (28 years old) (Murdered September 28, 1978)
Motive: Refused to join DeMeo’s auto-theft operation. Threatened Richard DiNome's children.
Method: Blunt force trauma to the head after being shot.
Murderers: Vito Arena (36 years old) and Richard DiNome (24 years old).
Accomplices: Ronald Turekian (29 years old), Frederick DiNome (37 years old).
Location: Autoshop owned by Richard DiNome in Canarsie, Brooklyn.


23. Edward Daniel Grillo (44 years old) (Murdered November 14, 1978)
Motive: Fell into heavy debt, seen as weak and potential cooperator.
Method: Shot to death. Corpse dismembered.
Participants: Likely Roy DeMeo (38 years old), Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Joseph Testa (23 years old), Anthony Senter (23 years old).
Location: Gemini Apartment in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


24. Unidentified Victim #3 (Murdered Early 1979)
Motive: Allegedly described to Arena as "favor for someone in Manhattan”.
Method: Unknown. Allegedly witnessed at the Gemini apartment by Vito Arena.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Gemini Apartment in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


25. Unidentified Victim #4 (Murdered Early 1979)
Motive: Allegedly described to Arena as "favor for someone in Manhattan”.
Method: Unknown. Allegedly witnessed at the Gemini apartment by Vito Arena.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Gemini Apartment in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


26. Unidentified Victim #5 (Murdered February 2, 1979)
Motive: Insulted Roy DeMeo.
Method: Shot to death. Allegedly witnessed outside Gemini Lounge by Dominick Montiglio.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (38 years old).
Location: Flatlands, Brooklyn.


27. Peter Waring (Murdered February 7, 1979)
Motive: Suspected of being police informant.
Method: Likely Shot to Death. Corpse dismembered.
Participants: Likely Roy DeMeo (38 years old), Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), others.
Location: Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


28. Scott Carfaro (Murdered Early 1979)
Motive: Acquitted of rape; victim’s family members contracted DeMeo Crew.
Method: Unknown.
Participants: Likely Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Unknown.


29. Frederick T.odaro (60 years old) (Murdered February 19, 1979)
Motive: Contract Murder; killed so his nephew, Douglas Rega (29 years old), could take over business property.
Method: Shot and stabbed to death. Corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (38 years old) and Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old).
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (23 years old), Anthony Senter (23 years old), Frederick DiNome (38 years old).
Location: Gemini Apartment in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


30. Charles Padnick (Murdered March 17, 1979)
Motive: Murdered in a cocaine rip-off by the Crew.
Method: Likely shot to death then dismembered.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Likely the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


31. William Serrano (Murdered March 17, 1979)
Motive: Murdered in a cocaine rip-off by the Crew.
Method: Likely shot to death then dismembered.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Likely the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


32. Unidentified associate of Serrano (Murdered March 17, 1979)
Motive: Murdered in a cocaine rip-off by the Crew.
Method: Likely shot to death then dismembered.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Likely the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


33. Unidentified female associate of Serrano (Murdered March 17, 1979)
Motive: Murdered in a cocaine rip-off by the Crew.
Method: Likely shot to death then dismembered.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Likely the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


34. Jamie Padnick (Murdered March 18, 1979)
Motive: Went to New York to investigate father’s disappearance; knew of cocaine deal.
Method: Likely shot to death then dismembered.
Participants: Harvey Rosenberg (28 years old), Roy DeMeo (38 years old), others.
Location: Likely the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


35. Dominick Ragucci (18 years old) (Murdered April 19, 1979)
Motive: Mistaken for hitman by Roy DeMeo.
Method: Shot seven times at close range with handgun.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (38 years old).
Accomplices: Frederick DiNome (38 years old), Joseph Guglielmo (51 years old).
Location: Route 101 in Suffolk County, Long Island.


36. Harvey/Chris Rosenberg (28 years old) (Murdered May 11, 1979)
Motive: Murdered to avoid war between Gambinos and Colombians.
Method: Shot four times in head.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (38 years old) and Anthony Senter (24 years old).
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (24 years old), Henry Borelli (30 years old), Frederick DiNome (38 years old).
Location: Gemini Lounge. Body dumped at Gateway National Recreation Area, Brooklyn.


37. James Eppolito (62 years old) (Murdered October 1, 1979)
Motive: Accused Roy and Anthony Gaggi of being drug dealers.
Method: Shot multiple times in head with handgun.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (39 years old).
Accomplice: Anthony Gaggi (54 years old).
Location: Coney Island, Brooklyn.


38. James Eppolito, Jr. (33 years old) (Murdered October 1, 1979)
Motive: Accused Roy and Anthony Gaggi of being drug dealers.
Method: Shot multiple times in head with handgun.
Murderer: Anthony Gaggi (54 years old).
Accomplice: Roy DeMeo (39 years old).
Location: Coney Island, Brooklyn.


39. Khaled Daoud (Murdered October 12, 1979)
Motive: Threatened to inform police about DeMeo auto-theft operation.
Method: Shot to death. Corpse dismembered.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (39 years old) and Henry Borelli (31 years old).
Accomplices: Frederick DiNome (38 years old), Vito Arena (37 years old), Joseph Testa (24 years old), Anthony Senter (24 years old).
Location: Frederick DiNome’s bodyshop on Glenwood Road in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


40. Ronald Falcaro (29 years old) (Murdered October 12, 1979)
Motive: Worked with Daoud, knew of DeMeo car operation.
Method: Shot to death. Corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Henry Borelli (31 years old).
Accomplices: Roy DeMeo (39 years old), Frederick DiNome (38 years old), Vito Arena (37 years old), Joseph Testa (24 years old), Anthony Senter (24 years old).
Location: Frederick DiNome’s bodyshop on Glenwood Road in Flatlands, Brooklyn.


41. Joseph Coppolino (39 years old) (Murdered March 7, 1980)
Motive: Suspected of being informant for Narcotics Detectives.
Method: Stabbed to death. Corpse decapitated.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (39 years old), others.
Location: Brooklyn.


42. Patrick Penny (21 years old) (Murdered May 12, 1980)
Motive: Testified against Anthony Gaggi in State murder trial.
Method: Shot nine times in head.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (39 years old).
Accomplices: Vito Arena (38 years old), Richard DiNome (25 years old).
Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn.


43. Charles Mongitore (30 years old) (Murdered June 5, 1980)
Motive: Ignored warnings about testifying against Andrew Mangialino, son of Gambino Soldier Salvatore Mangialino.
Method: Shot fourteen times at close range with handguns. Throat slit.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (39 years old) and Henry Borelli (31 years old).
Accomplices: Vito Arena (38 years old), Richard DiNome (25 years old), Joseph Testa (25 years old), Anthony Senter (25 years old), Salvatore Mangialino (43 years old).


44. Daniel Scutaro (25 years old) (Murdered June 5, 1980)
Motive: Encountered DeMeo Crew as they were cleaning up after Mongitore shooting.
Method: Shot to death.
Murderers: Roy DeMeo (39 years old) and Henry Borelli (32 years old).
Accomplices: Vito Arena (38 years old), Richard DiNome (25 years old), Joseph Testa (25 years old), Anthony Senter (25 years old), Salvatore Mangialino (43 years old).


45. Frank Amato (Murdered September 20, 1980)
Motive: Ordered by Gambino Boss Paul Castellano.
Method: Shot to death with automatic firearm. Corpse dismembered.
Murderer: Roy DeMeo (40 years old).
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (25 years old), Anthony Senter (25 years old), Frederick DiNome (39 years old), Richard DiNome (26 years old).
Location: Gemini Apartment in Flatlands, Brooklyn. Body dumped in Atlantic Ocean.


46. James Bennett (April 29, 1981)
Motive: Cooperating Witness set to testify against DeMeo Crew member Richard Mastrangelo.
Method: Shot to death by two gunmen.
Participants: Unknown.
Location: Brooklyn.


47. Anthony Romano (64 years old) (Murdered July 4, 1982)
Motive: Suspected of involvement in 1978 robbery of Peter LaFroscia.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (41 years old), others.
Location: Brooklyn


48. John Romano (Murdered July 4, 1982)
Motive: Suspected of involvement in 1978 robbery of Peter LaFroscia.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Roy DeMeo (41 years old), others.
Location: Brooklyn


49. Roy DeMeo (42 years old) (Murdered January 10, 1983)
Motive: Gambino hierarchy feared he would become cooperating witness.
Method: Shot to death.
Participants: Suspected to be Anthony Gaggi (57 years old), Joseph Testa (27 years old) and Anthony Senter (27 years old).
Location: Found in parking lot of Varuna Boat Club in Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn.


50. Richard DiNome (29 years old) (Murdered February 4, 1984)
Motive: Considered weak and potential cooperating witness.
Method: Shot once in back of head with automatic firearm.
Participants: Likely Joseph Testa (28 years old), Anthony Senter (28 years old), others.
Location: Found in living room of Gravesend, Brooklyn home.


51. John Baida (Murdered February 4, 1984)
Motive: Present at Richard DiNome’s house when hitmen arrived.
Method: Shot once in back of head with automatic firearm.
Participants: Likely Joseph Testa (28 years old), Anthony Senter (28 years old), others.
Location: Gravesend, Brooklyn


52. Frederick Seiden (Murdered February 4, 1984)
Motive: Present at Richard DiNome’s house when hitmen arrived.
Method: Shot twice in head with automatic firearm.
Participants: Likely Joseph Testa (28 years old), Anthony Senter (28 years old), others.
Location: Gravesend, Brooklyn.


Post DeMeo-Crew Murders


53. Vladimir Reznikov (Murdered June 13, 1986)
Motive: Threatened acquaintance of Lucchese Capo Anthony Casso.
Method: Shot multiple times in head.
Murderer: Joseph Testa (31 years old)
Location: Brighton Beach.


54. Nicholas Guido (Murdered December 25, 1986)
Motive: Mistakenly identified as individual involved in attempted hit on Anthony Casso.
Method: Shot four times at close range with handgun.
Murderer: Joseph Testa (31 years old)
Accomplices: Anthony Casso (Ordered Hit); George Zappola (Supervisor of hit).
Location: Brooklyn.


55. Carmine Varriale (Murdered September 3, 1987)
Motive:
Method: Shot multiple times at close range with handgun.
Murderer: Frank Smith.
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (32 years old) (Backup Shooter); Anthony Senter (32 years old) (Backup Shooter); George Zappola (28 years old).


56. Frank Santora (Murdered September 3, 1987)
Motive: Killed alongside Carmine Varriale.
Method: Shot multiple times at close range with handgun.
Murderer: Frank Smith.
Accomplices: Joseph Testa (32 years old) (Backup Shooter); Anthony Senter (32 years old) (Backup Shooter).

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 9:17 pm

I must have missed this quote before. I am going to assume it is from AlbaniaUnited. Just out of curiosity, where does the "probably 3-5 times the associates" come for the Rudaj gang? Once again, the Rudaj gang didn't have "members" and "associates" like the LCN does. It didn't have an induction ceremony that would differentiate between members and associates. The two or three dozen members of the gang were the extent of it's manpower.


Because you moron. There is a big difference between a member and an associate for the Corporation. Not every person indicted could call themselves a member. They did have members and associates like the La Cosa Nostra families. If the total number of members and associates for the Rudaj Organisation was only three dozen then I would have never even compared them to the Colombo's. The reason Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a "Sixth crime family" is because they had three dozen or so 'members' with a lot of associates. I shouldn't have said 3-5 associates because it would be more. Alex Rudaj had every Albanian gangster in the Bronx as an associate. I seen the man myself. Personally, I don't like him. Too arrogant. Colotti had many associates as well.

Also one more thing. Just because Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a sixth crime family it does not mean that they equal the Gambino's you moron. It meant that they are a crime family. Maybe not a major one but The NJ and Philly mafia families are not comparable to the Gambino's and Genovese's either. But your so fixated on Italians absolutly dominating every thing that you take shit into consideration.


Finally, no I did not read your reports or video about Italians and the taxing thing. Why? Becuase I never doubted you. I don't know why the hell you keep posting about it. All I said was the overall tax would not add up to 1% or even 0.50%.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 8th, 2008, 9:45 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Because you moron. There is a big difference between a member and an associate for the Corporation. Not every person indicted could call themselves a member. They did have members and associates like the La Cosa Nostra families. If the total number of members and associates for the Rudaj Organisation was only three dozen then I would have never even compared them to the Colombo's. The reason Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a "Sixth crime family" is because they had three dozen or so 'members' with a lot of associates. I shouldn't have said 3-5 associates because it would be more. Alex Rudaj had every Albanian gangster in the Bronx as an associate. I seen the man myself. Personally, I don't like him. Too arrogant. Colotti had many associates as well.


Snelling's comment that the Rudaj gang "amounted to a sixth family" was simply an overstatement. That can be seen by hindsight and the fact that the gang never compared to one of the five New York Families in any way. And that's what Snelling was implying, that they were a "sixth family" comparable to the five LCN families in New York. Show me where there were ever members and associates differentiated in the gang. And show me where it was said that it had "three dozen or so members" with "a lot" of associates.

Also one more thing. Just because Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a sixth crime family it does not mean that they equal the Gambino's you moron. It meant that they are a crime family. Maybe not a major one but The NJ and Philly mafia families are not comparable to the Gambino's and Genovese's either. But your so fixated on Italians absolutly dominating every thing that you take shit into consideration.


As I said above, Snelling saying they were a "sixth family" was an implication that they compared to the five New York Families. They didn't. You now it and I know it. Don't start trying to backpeddle now.

Finally, no I did not read your reports or video about Italians and the taxing thing. Why? Becuase I never doubted you. I don't know why the hell you keep posting about it. All I said was the overall tax would not add up to 1% or even 0.50%.


Yes, you did doubt. That's why you accused me of posting outdated articles and reports. You wanted to see something from 2008. I gave you information from 2000 to the present. I seemed to me that you were about to claim that the LCN doesn't control labor unions or influence major industries anymore and you were proven wrong. Again. Now, the exact percentage overall is not known. As one of the articles said - the ones you didn't bother to read - the mob's tax in the contstruction industry alone is 2%. The original point of all this, if you recall, is that the LCN's "mob tax" on industries in New York dwarfs the shakedown operations by other crime groups.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 8th, 2008, 10:59 pm

thewestside wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:Because you moron. There is a big difference between a member and an associate for the Corporation. Not every person indicted could call themselves a member. They did have members and associates like the La Cosa Nostra families. If the total number of members and associates for the Rudaj Organisation was only three dozen then I would have never even compared them to the Colombo's. The reason Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a "Sixth crime family" is because they had three dozen or so 'members' with a lot of associates. I shouldn't have said 3-5 associates because it would be more. Alex Rudaj had every Albanian gangster in the Bronx as an associate. I seen the man myself. Personally, I don't like him. Too arrogant. Colotti had many associates as well.


Snelling's comment that the Rudaj gang "amounted to a sixth family" was simply an overstatement. That can be seen by hindsight and the fact that the gang never compared to one of the five New York Families in any way. And that's what Snelling was implying, that they were a "sixth family" comparable to the five LCN families in New York. Show me where there were ever members and associates differentiated in the gang. And show me where it was said that it had "three dozen or so members" with "a lot" of associates.

Also one more thing. Just because Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a sixth crime family it does not mean that they equal the Gambino's you moron. It meant that they are a crime family. Maybe not a major one but The NJ and Philly mafia families are not comparable to the Gambino's and Genovese's either. But your so fixated on Italians absolutly dominating every thing that you take shit into consideration.


As I said above, Snelling saying they were a "sixth family" was an implication that they compared to the five New York Families. They didn't. You now it and I know it. Don't start trying to backpeddle now.

Finally, no I did not read your reports or video about Italians and the taxing thing. Why? Becuase I never doubted you. I don't know why the hell you keep posting about it. All I said was the overall tax would not add up to 1% or even 0.50%.


Yes, you did doubt. That's why you accused me of posting outdated articles and reports. You wanted to see something from 2008. I gave you information from 2000 to the present. I seemed to me that you were about to claim that the LCN doesn't control labor unions or influence major industries anymore and you were proven wrong. Again. Now, the exact percentage overall is not known. As one of the articles said - the ones you didn't bother to read - the mob's tax in the contstruction industry alone is 2%. The original point of all this, if you recall, is that the LCN's "mob tax" on industries in New York dwarfs the shakedown operations by other crime groups.



Your sucha moron it's not even funny anymore. I am the most rational and patient of all my friends but you honestly piss the hell out of me. Why should Fred Snelling (Who is in the fuckin' FBI *your gods*) make an overstatement like that? If the Rudajs didn't have any associates they would never be considered a "sixth family". It says in the indictment itself your slow imcompetent reader 26 members and associates of the Corporation indicted. Why would they say members AND associates. You even questioning the Corporation having associates shows you want to downsize them as much as possible. As if you just posted about the mob tax again!? I don't care. Even if it is 2% I do not care. There are many other types of crimes. The Italians are like I said many times living off the past. They live off past deals, past organisation, past connections. As time goes, so does their power because they lack the real gangsterism that Albanians, Russians, Cubans, Colombians bring from their home country. The Italian mafia is a dying mafia in New York City. Others are on the rise. Italians rely on Albanians for muscle like you wouldn't believe around here. John Gotti Jr. had an Albanian body guard for god's sake. He's the boss of the second most powerful Italian crime family in the United States. Why is he relying on an Albanian for protection? If the mafia had at its disposal as much muscle as you claim this would not happen. The Gambinos main assassins are Albanian as well as many of their high-level associates (Zef Mustafa - made over $20 million USD *more then most Gambino made men*). The Italians are only on top temporary because of the reasons I stated up there. It will not be a long contuing trend. Jerry Capeci says there is no enough Albanians to take over. There is over 150,000 in New York City alone. There is too many here. The Albanians as a whole have not yet established themselves. They are new immigrants and most of them have no permanent status in America being as the Albanian immigration wave to America started around 1993. If we can come up this fast in New York and across the world actually. Then imagine the Albanian mafia in twenty years when most of them here will be able to speak english and see there way around. A lot of Albanian gangsters work with the LCN families because we view it as fast money. They're too lazy, fat and old to go up to a couple of niggers who went against them and make an example out of them. Why shouldn't we do it for them for a price? The Gambino boss wants a bodyguard? Why shouldn't we do it and learn something while were there? But I think the Albanians have made their point about standing down to no one even if it is to a criminal organisation dating back a hundred years. You think you know about the Albanian mafia from the west coast of the United States because you read some reports. But you don't know shit. I live here. I read just as much as you do about all types of mafia's and gang's. But your Italian and desperately want things to go back to the 1950's. I'm tired of you coming on here thinking you know everything. You honestly don't know the half of it. You think the Albanian mafia around here revolves around Alex Rudaj like many other ignorant people.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby TeeKay » September 9th, 2008, 12:18 am

AlbaniaUnited wrote:
thewestside wrote:
AlbaniaUnited wrote:Because you moron. There is a big difference between a member and an associate for the Corporation. Not every person indicted could call themselves a member. They did have members and associates like the La Cosa Nostra families. If the total number of members and associates for the Rudaj Organisation was only three dozen then I would have never even compared them to the Colombo's. The reason Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a "Sixth crime family" is because they had three dozen or so 'members' with a lot of associates. I shouldn't have said 3-5 associates because it would be more. Alex Rudaj had every Albanian gangster in the Bronx as an associate. I seen the man myself. Personally, I don't like him. Too arrogant. Colotti had many associates as well.


Snelling's comment that the Rudaj gang "amounted to a sixth family" was simply an overstatement. That can be seen by hindsight and the fact that the gang never compared to one of the five New York Families in any way. And that's what Snelling was implying, that they were a "sixth family" comparable to the five LCN families in New York. Show me where there were ever members and associates differentiated in the gang. And show me where it was said that it had "three dozen or so members" with "a lot" of associates.

Also one more thing. Just because Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a sixth crime family it does not mean that they equal the Gambino's you moron. It meant that they are a crime family. Maybe not a major one but The NJ and Philly mafia families are not comparable to the Gambino's and Genovese's either. But your so fixated on Italians absolutly dominating every thing that you take shit into consideration.


As I said above, Snelling saying they were a "sixth family" was an implication that they compared to the five New York Families. They didn't. You now it and I know it. Don't start trying to backpeddle now.

Finally, no I did not read your reports or video about Italians and the taxing thing. Why? Becuase I never doubted you. I don't know why the hell you keep posting about it. All I said was the overall tax would not add up to 1% or even 0.50%.


Yes, you did doubt. That's why you accused me of posting outdated articles and reports. You wanted to see something from 2008. I gave you information from 2000 to the present. I seemed to me that you were about to claim that the LCN doesn't control labor unions or influence major industries anymore and you were proven wrong. Again. Now, the exact percentage overall is not known. As one of the articles said - the ones you didn't bother to read - the mob's tax in the contstruction industry alone is 2%. The original point of all this, if you recall, is that the LCN's "mob tax" on industries in New York dwarfs the shakedown operations by other crime groups.



Your sucha moron it's not even funny anymore. I am the most rational and patient of all my friends but you honestly piss the hell out of me. Why should Fred Snelling (Who is in the fuckin' FBI *your gods*) make an overstatement like that? If the Rudajs didn't have any associates they would never be considered a "sixth family". It says in the indictment itself your slow imcompetent reader 26 members and associates of the Corporation indicted. Why would they say members AND associates. You even questioning the Corporation having associates shows you want to downsize them as much as possible. As if you just posted about the mob tax again!? I don't care. Even if it is 2% I do not care. There are many other types of crimes. The Italians are like I said many times living off the past. They live off past deals, past organisation, past connections. As time goes, so does their power because they lack the real gangsterism that Albanians, Russians, Cubans, Colombians bring from their home country. The Italian mafia is a dying mafia in New York City. Others are on the rise. Italians rely on Albanians for muscle like you wouldn't believe around here. John Gotti Jr. had an Albanian body guard for god's sake. He's the boss of the second most powerful Italian crime family in the United States. Why is he relying on an Albanian for protection? If the mafia had at its disposal as much muscle as you claim this would not happen. The Gambinos main assassins are Albanian as well as many of their high-level associates (Zef Mustafa - made over $20 million USD *more then most Gambino made men*). The Italians are only on top temporary because of the reasons I stated up there. It will not be a long contuing trend. Jerry Capeci says there is no enough Albanians to take over. There is over 150,000 in New York City alone. There is too many here. The Albanians as a whole have not yet established themselves. They are new immigrants and most of them have no permanent status in America being as the Albanian immigration wave to America started around 1993. If we can come up this fast in New York and across the world actually. Then imagine the Albanian mafia in twenty years when most of them here will be able to speak english and see there way around. A lot of Albanian gangsters work with the LCN families because we view it as fast money. They're too lazy, fat and old to go up to a couple of niggers who went against them and make an example out of them. Why shouldn't we do it for them for a price? The Gambino boss wants a bodyguard? Why shouldn't we do it and learn something while were there? But I think the Albanians have made their point about standing down to no one even if it is to a criminal organisation dating back a hundred years. You think you know about the Albanian mafia from the west coast of the United States because you read some reports. But you don't know shit. I live here. I read just as much as you do about all types of mafia's and gang's. But your Italian and desperately want things to go back to the 1950's. I'm tired of you coming on here thinking you know everything. You honestly don't know the half of it. You think the Albanian mafia around here revolves around Alex Rudaj like many other ignorant people.


Gosh your a broken fuck*n record,how many times do you have to repeat your self about the same things? Your saying everything johnny did when ever tried to make a point that there was over half a million albanians in US over 1 quote of a local albanian that he put his word first of the US Census Bureau,any idiot wouldnt agree to the other over that.

Italians rely on Albanians for muscle like you wouldn't believe around here. John Gotti Jr. had an Albanian body guard for god's sake. He's the boss of the second most powerful Italian crime family in the United States.


Yeah we've heard this over and over again,take away albanians from NY,Italians would always have others to go for when muscle is needed,they did before with other ethnic groups and one last thing,jnr gotti had acting boss position for a short time,he's not even a factor in the gambinos these days at all,besides no one took him seriously as boss,the genovese refused to even communicate with him.

They are new immigrants and most of them have no permanent status in America being as the Albanian immigration wave to America started around 1993. If we can come up this fast in New York and across the world actually. Then imagine the Albanian mafia in twenty years when most of them here will be able to speak english and see there way around.


I hope your not insinuating that albanians will ever be top or number 2 in new york,no other criminal group will have the luxuries of what LCN had ever again because Law Enforcement is on everyone's ass,they would never have the event of them being so entrenched in the city that they'll be around long.

hey live off past deals, past organisation, past connections. As time goes, so does their power because they lack the real gangsterism that Albanians, Russians, Cubans, Colombians bring from their home country.


what are you saying? All their old long time operations of labour racketeering,extortion,gambling of course are all old shit and past deals? Take away LCN's drugs and their other operations would still be active,take away drugs from most outfits they wouldnt have sh*t.Albanians can stay sticking to doing robberies and atm theft lol.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 9th, 2008, 8:12 am

Gosh your a broken fu--*n record,how many times do you have to repeat your self about the same things? Your saying everything johnny did when ever tried to make a point that there was over half a million albanians in US over 1 quote of a local albanian that he put his word first of the US Census Bureau,any idiot wouldnt agree to the other over that.


Okay first of all. I didn't give you a source from a local Albanian's estimate of the Albanian population in the United States. I gave you the estimate the Albanian-American Civic League tallied as well as other official estimates. The U.S. Census does not pay attention to this to the level they should to get accurate estimates. I went to that site and I seen every estimate for every nationality and they account a hundred and twelve million people as unidentified or as 'others'. There is your so called U.S. Census. Yes, according to them there are 157,000 Albanians in the United States. The U.S. Census however, does not count the Albanian immigrants with no resolved status in America. Which accounts for most Albanians. Can I believe there are 157,000 passport holding Albanians? Yes. That may very well be possible but the total number of Albanians period here is much higher (550,000 - 750,000).

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DT ... &-_lang=en


Yeah we've heard this over and over again,take away albanians from NY,Italians would always have others to go for when muscle is needed,they did before with other ethnic groups and one last thing,jnr gotti had acting boss position for a short time,he's not even a factor in the gambinos these days at all,besides no one took him seriously as boss,the genovese refused to even communicate with him.


What are you talking about? John Gotti Jr. was the boss after his father went to jail. Your right, he wasent well respected but he was the boss. And his bodyguard was an Albanian from Cherry Hill, New Jersey. The main assassins for the Gambinos are Albanians as well.

I hope your not insinuating that albanians will ever be top or number 2 in new york,no other criminal group will have the luxuries of what LCN had ever again because Law Enforcement is on everyone's ass,they would never have the event of them being so entrenched in the city that they'll be around long.


Albanians are climbing the mafia pyramid very fast. Not just in the United States but in the world. 1991 was the real birth of the Albanian mafia. Of course there was Albanian criminal activity before then. But those were Albanians lucky enough to live in the Albanian regions outside communist Albania. Sure even some Albanians from Albania managed to escaped the communist country and participate in crime abroad such as Zef Mustafa and Frederik Durda, etc.... But very little and I mean very little. I am not saying that the Albanian mafia will grow to the extent of the Italian mafia in the 1950's. But Albanian activies will grow significantly as the years go by.

what are you saying? All their old long time operations of labour racketeering,extortion,gambling of course are all old shit and past deals? Take away LCN's drugs and their other operations would still be active,take away drugs from most outfits they wouldnt have sh*t.Albanians can stay sticking to doing robberies and atm theft lol.


Okay to be honest I really cannot understand what you wrote here because of your bad grammer. But yes I stated that the Italian mafia is living off past deals, connections, entrenchment and past money. While other groups are building these things. Luckily the Italians did it at an easier time. The Italian mafia continuely decreases in power, wealth, etc... every passing year. While the Albanians, Russians, etc... get stronger every passing year. Your ignorant remark about Albanians and ATM machines and robberies comes from the YACS group, a mainly Albanian group who in ten years were able to heist more then $100 million USD. What you forgot to read is that the YACS groups was also involved in gambling and drugs. Although robberies are ways of quick cash. The Albanians have gained most noriety for drug and arms trafficking in the United States as well as murder.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Faciulina » September 9th, 2008, 9:27 am

Okay to be honest I really cannot understand what you wrote here because of your bad grammer. But yes I stated that the Italian mafia is living off past deals, connections, entrenchment and past money. While other groups are building these things. Luckily the Italians did it at an easier time. The Italian mafia continuely decreases in power, wealth, etc... every passing year. While the Albanians, Russians, etc... get stronger every passing year. Your ignorant remark about Albanians and ATM machines and robberies comes from the YACS group, a mainly Albanian group who in ten years were able to heist more then $100 million USD. What you forgot to read is that the YACS groups was also involved in gambling and drugs. Although robberies are ways of quick cash. The Albanians have gained most noriety for drug and arms trafficking in the United States as well as murder.


you make me laugh albaniaunited the only is living in the past are you not the italian mafia ahahahah albanian and russian mafia aren't anymore what they used to be in middle 1990s no way they get stronger and stronger just in your dreams... in greece there are over 1 million albanians and greek goverment don't care of them they are not considered a threat but just street crimes and a few drug trafficking how can they be a threat in usa where they are 200.000 or less? be serious now albaniaunited the albanian have a paramilitary groups and gangs in europe theire gangs are more organized than other eastern europe gangs but they are nothng compared to italian mafia they are by far more disorganized they earn little... in usa the mafia survived tons of indictments and it is still the strongest the albanian can't survive just 1 indictement because they are not organized so just stop dreaming man they will never surpass the italians they aren't capable at all... and finally the only organized crime gropus getting stronger and stronger today are the ndrangheta and some mexican cartels nobody else we are in 2008 man not 1997

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Faciulina » September 9th, 2008, 9:41 am

What are you talking about? John Gotti Jr. was the boss after his father went to jail. Your right, he wasent well respected but he was the boss. And his bodyguard was an Albanian from Cherry Hill, New Jersey. The main assassins for the Gambinos are Albanians as well.


ahahaha the albanians are not professional killers stop saying BS man the italians in usa used them just a few times because it's a multietnich society they worked with irish and jewish in the past and sometimes it used them as shooters when they need somebody unknown... the irish westies were by far stronger than today albanians they killed very much the albanians today killed 2 or 3 men ahahahah very professional killers... please don't make me laugh the italian mafia in usa killed thousands of men in the years today it's killing less because the feds are stronger than the past and because the american goverment is less corrupted not because they are not capable of killing, the mafia is professional they are not chickenthieves or crips and bloods killing without any reason

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Richboy17 » September 9th, 2008, 5:27 pm

Because you moron. There is a big difference between a member and an associate for the Corporation. Not every person indicted could call themselves a member. They did have members and associates like the La Cosa Nostra families. If the total number of members and associates for the Rudaj Organisation was only three dozen then I would have never even compared them to the Colombo's. The reason Fred Snelling (FBI) said they amounted to a "Sixth crime family" is because they had three dozen or so 'members' with a lot of associates. I shouldn't have said 3-5 associates because it would be more. Alex Rudaj had every Albanian gangster in the Bronx as an associate. I seen the man myself. Personally, I don't like him. Too arrogant. Colotti had many associates as well.

In your last posts you said there were many albanian gangsters that were split from the Rudaj in the bronx and more powerful. Now your saying every Albanian gangster in the Bronx was an associate. Which one is it?

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Richboy17 » September 9th, 2008, 5:28 pm

Hey Albanian United, are you a member of the ABI? I think you might be, those kids idolize gangsters.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 9th, 2008, 5:31 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Your sucha moron it's not even funny anymore. I am the most rational and patient of all my friends but you honestly piss the hell out of me. Why should Fred Snelling (Who is in the fuckin' FBI *your gods*) make an overstatement like that? If the Rudajs didn't have any associates they would never be considered a "sixth family". It says in the indictment itself your slow imcompetent reader 26 members and associates of the Corporation indicted. Why would they say members AND associates. You even questioning the Corporation having associates shows you want to downsize them as much as possible. As if you just posted about the mob tax again!? I don't care. Even if it is 2% I do not care. There are many other types of crimes. The Italians are like I said many times living off the past. They live off past deals, past organisation, past connections. As time goes, so does their power because they lack the real gangsterism that Albanians, Russians, Cubans, Colombians bring from their home country. The Italian mafia is a dying mafia in New York City. Others are on the rise. Italians rely on Albanians for muscle like you wouldn't believe around here. John Gotti Jr. had an Albanian body guard for god's sake. He's the boss of the second most powerful Italian crime family in the United States. Why is he relying on an Albanian for protection? If the mafia had at its disposal as much muscle as you claim this would not happen. The Gambinos main assassins are Albanian as well as many of their high-level associates (Zef Mustafa - made over $20 million USD *more then most Gambino made men*). The Italians are only on top temporary because of the reasons I stated up there. It will not be a long contuing trend. Jerry Capeci says there is no enough Albanians to take over. There is over 150,000 in New York City alone. There is too many here. The Albanians as a whole have not yet established themselves. They are new immigrants and most of them have no permanent status in America being as the Albanian immigration wave to America started around 1993. If we can come up this fast in New York and across the world actually. Then imagine the Albanian mafia in twenty years when most of them here will be able to speak english and see there way around. A lot of Albanian gangsters work with the LCN families because we view it as fast money. They're too lazy, fat and old to go up to a couple of niggers who went against them and make an example out of them. Why shouldn't we do it for them for a price? The Gambino boss wants a bodyguard? Why shouldn't we do it and learn something while were there? But I think the Albanians have made their point about standing down to no one even if it is to a criminal organisation dating back a hundred years. You think you know about the Albanian mafia from the west coast of the United States because you read some reports. But you don't know shit. I live here. I read just as much as you do about all types of mafia's and gang's. But your Italian and desperately want things to go back to the 1950's. I'm tired of you coming on here thinking you know everything. You honestly don't know the half of it. You think the Albanian mafia around here revolves around Alex Rudaj like many other ignorant people.


You are hardly rational and patient. You are as big of a basket case as JohnnyRed ever was. I reread the first part of the indictment and you are correct about it differentiating between members and associates. However, I have yet to see in the indictment or anywhere else any estimations of how many members and associates the group had beyond the names listed. What I do know is that after the indictment and convictions, the FBI considers the Rudaj gang defunct. Now, was every single member or associate indicted? Probably not. But obviuosly enough were where the organization could not continue on. That goes in the face of your claims that the group had 3-5 associates for every member, or even more than that, or that Rudaj controlled every Albanian hood in the Bronx. All hype and nonsense from you.

I defer to authorities, including the FBI, the vast majority of the time. But there is the occassional exception and Snelling's comment was one of them. Quite simply, he vastly overstated the postion of the Rudaj gang by calling them a "sixth family," thereby implying that they compared to the five New York LCN families. The Rudaj gang did not compare to any of the five families in size, in strength, in diversification, in sophistication, in longetivity, in stability, or anything else. Once again, as I have said many times, the Rudaj gang was more comparable to a single New York LCN crew. If I were to compare the Rudaj gang to an LCN family, it would probably be something like the Buffalo family.

You keep saying the LCN is living off the past even though you don't realize that is partly what gives it it's present day strength. The LCN derives strength from having been active and entrenched in American organized crime for the better part of a century. The LCN is able to trade on it's name and reputation, which has been developed over decades, like no other group. The LCN derives strength from the fact that it has been active in the U.S. long enough to where it has bridged the gap between the underworld and the legitimate world, while other groups rarely operate out of their own ethnic communities. But, as for the present, numerous indictments just this decade have demonstrated that the New York LCN familes are far and away the most active and most powerful criminal organizations in New York. Are they in decline? Yes. Are other groups establishing themselves? Yes. But this does not mean the day will ever come where these newer groups will replace the LCN. And I have already explained the various reasons for this more than once.

For the record, John Gotti had a lot of bodyguards. Yes, one of them was Albanian. You keep saying that the Albanians are the main assassins for the LCN. They are certainly one of the groups most used by the LCN for muscle work, i.e. hits, beatings, robberies, arson, collections, etc. But, as I said before, they don't use Albanians exclusively for this things. They still have plenty of enforcers, both Italian and other groups, who they use for the same things as they have done for decades. Albanians are simply among the latest ethnic groups on the American organized crime scene with a reputation and ability for violence that the LCN recognizes it can use. Conversely, like other groups before, the Albanians recognize that they can greatly benefit from working for and being associated with the established LCN families in New York.

As for you saying that I am Italian, this is the last time I am going to address this issue. I have been a member of another organized crime forum for two years now and have always been very upfront regarding where I live, where I come from, my ethnicity, even my religion. People over there know me pretty well. I don't live on the West Coast. And I am not Italian. In fact, the state I live in isn't exactly known for having many Italians at all. The thread below, which can only be accessed by registered members of the forum, contains a post I made back in March when people were talking about their specific ethnicity. I said the same thing there that I said here, I am mainly of English descent. Some Danish I believe.

(March 9, 2008)
http://www.realdeal-forum.com/forum/vie ... ish#p90821

And since we're on the subject of ethnicity, I would like to highlight a few things from your above quote for all to see -

"If we can come up this fast in New York and across the world actually. Then imagine the Albanian mafia in twenty years when most of them here will be able to speak english and see there way around. A lot of Albanian gangsters work with the LCN families because we view it as fast money. They're too lazy, fat and old to go up to a couple of niggers who went against them and make an example out of them. Why shouldn't we do it for them for a price? The Gambino boss wants a bodyguard? Why shouldn't we do it and learn something while were there? But I think the Albanians have made their point about standing down to no one even if it is to a criminal organisation dating back a hundred years."

We? Who is "we?" The above quote from you is solid evidence that you, just like JohnnyRed, get some sort of sick ethnic pride from Albanian organized crime. By repeatedly using the term "we," you are demonstrating that, like JohnnyRed, you identify with them. And like JohnnyRed, this takes away your credibility to see things objectively. In short, you are just another Albanian Mafia hack just like JohnnyRed and many others who have become notorious on various organized crime forums and message boards. Truly you guys are pathetic.

Finally, you accuse me of thinking I know everything but not knowing shit. Well, I don't know everything and have never claimed to. But when it comes to organized crime, this much I do know. I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 9th, 2008, 6:06 pm

you make me laugh albaniaunited the only is living in the past are you not the italian mafia ahahahah albanian and russian mafia aren't anymore what they used to be in middle 1990s no way they get stronger and stronger just in your dreams... in greece there are over 1 million albanians and greek goverment don't care of them they are not considered a threat but just street crimes and a few drug trafficking how can they be a threat in usa where they are 200.000 or less? be serious now albaniaunited the albanian have a paramilitary groups and gangs in europe theire gangs are more organized than other eastern europe gangs but they are nothng compared to italian mafia they are by far more disorganized they earn little... in usa the mafia survived tons of indictments and it is still the strongest the albanian can't survive just 1 indictement because they are not organized so just stop dreaming man they will never surpass the italians they aren't capable at all... and finally the only organized crime gropus getting stronger and stronger today are the ndrangheta and some mexican cartels nobody else we are in 2008 man not 1997


First off, there are 550,000 to 750,000 Albanians in America. The overwhelming majority in the north-east and Detroit. Second off, the Albanians are stronger today then they are in 1997. This proves you have no idea what your talking about. As Albanians establish themselves here in America they get stronger. You ignorantly thinkg Alex Rudaj is the most powerful Albanian mobster here in America. Thats wrong, even the video I posted up of the guy who sent $30 million USD to Kosova and sent entire planes full of guns would be more powerful then Rudaj.

In Greece, Albanians control the majority of almost every illegal business. They control over 90% of the heroin there. Almost 100%. The Italian mafia is not as powerful in Greece then the Albanians. That only in your dreams.

Yes the only crime groups getting stronger is the Ndrangheta and the Mexican cartels. The Albanians and Russians were powerful in the mid 1990's but not anymore. Everyone suddenly changed their ways and the two mafias became extinct. Also according to you Albanians aren't violent like in the 90's. Now the homicide rate in Albania is five. The Albanian mafia only makes about seven to ten billion a year. Your a genius Faciulina!

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » September 9th, 2008, 6:23 pm

You are hardly rational and patient. You are as big of a basket case as JohnnyRed ever was. I reread the first part of the indictment and you are correct about it differentiating between members and associates. However, I have yet to see in the indictment or anywhere else any estimations of how many members and associates the group had beyond the names listed. What I do know is that after the indictment and convictions, the FBI considers the Rudaj gang defunct. Now, was every single member or associate indicted? Probably not. But obviuosly enough were where the organization could not continue on. That goes in the face of your claims that the group had 3-5 associates for every member, or even more than that, or that Rudaj controlled every Albanian hood in the Bronx. All hype and nonsense from you.



I have to go but I had to answer this specific quote before I left. When did I say he controlled every Albanian gangster? You see what I mean? You cannot read well. Your an illiterate, ignorant person. I said every Albanian in the Bronx is an associate of his. That does not mean every one of them are controlled by him. But you twist up my words AGAIN and then answer to your own idea of what I said. If JohnnyRed was a basket case you have got to be an escaped mental patient. This is the first time I'm actually going to defend Johnny because if he went through what I am. I don't blame him for getting frustrated. The Rudaj organisation might be out of business but that doesnt mean every member of it is behind bars. The majority of them are, yes. Some associates went to jail as well. They controlled fifty gambling spots around New York they must have associates in every one of them. This is all your political strategy. Make the other guy seem as if he doesnt know what he is talking about.



This is what happens when we talk.

AlbaniaUnited: Alex Rudaj had every Albanian in the Bronx as an associate.

thewestside: This is all hype and nonesense from you! You claim such things as Rudaj controlling every Albanian gangster in New York and then you wonder why no one wants to believe you. He only had a couple dozen members at most and no associates. The Gambino's are involved in GARMENT ALBANIAUNITED! FREAKING GARMENT!! Are you kidding me!? Every group in New York comes before the Albanians AlbaniaUnited. Italians, Russians, Colombians, Cubans, Jamaicans, Nigerians, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese, Brazilians, Canadians, Sweds, Figians, Australians, Chilians, Iraqis, Algerians, G-Unit, ESPECIALLY G-UNIT! Do a little research outside the Albanian mafia and you will see why you are wrong and I am totally right. Now I'll be back to check if anyone on this forum has challenged my superior and absolute knowledge in about an hour because I have nothing else to do and this makes me feel good.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 9th, 2008, 7:18 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:I have to go but I had to answer this specific quote before I left. When did I say he controlled every Albanian gangster? You see what I mean? You cannot read well. Your an illiterate, ignorant person. I said every Albanian in the Bronx is an associate of his. That does not mean every one of them are controlled by him. But you twist up my words AGAIN and then answer to your own idea of what I said. If JohnnyRed was a basket case you have got to be an escaped mental patient. This is the first time I'm actually going to defend Johnny because if he went through what I am. I don't blame him for getting frustrated. The Rudaj organisation might be out of business but that doesnt mean every member of it is behind bars. The majority of them are, yes. Some associates went to jail as well. They controlled fifty gambling spots around New York they must have associates in every one of them. This is all your political strategy. Make the other guy seem as if he doesnt know what he is talking about.

This is what happens when we talk.

AlbaniaUnited: Alex Rudaj had every Albanian in the Bronx as an associate.


JohnnyRed went through what you are going through? LOL! Yeah, you're a real martyr. You guys bring it on yourselves with your nonsense.

Your claim that Rudaj had every Albanian in the Bronx as an associate is as ridiculous as if you had said he had every Albanian in the Bronx under his thumb. You're just splitting hairs. Both are ridiculous claims and total BS. Just more hype from you.

thewestside: This is all hype and nonesense from you! You claim such things as Rudaj controlling every Albanian gangster in New York and then you wonder why no one wants to believe you. He only had a couple dozen members at most and no associates. The Gambino's are involved in GARMENT ALBANIAUNITED! FREAKING GARMENT!! Are you kidding me!? Every group in New York comes before the Albanians AlbaniaUnited. Italians, Russians, Colombians, Cubans, Jamaicans, Nigerians, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese, Brazilians, Canadians, Sweds, Figians, Australians, Chilians, Iraqis, Algerians, G-Unit, ESPECIALLY G-UNIT! Do a little research outside the Albanian mafia and you will see why you are wrong and I am totally right. Now I'll be back to check if anyone on this forum has challenged my superior and absolute knowledge in about an hour because I have nothing else to do and this makes me feel good.


Talk about misquoting. The only groups I have said have a bigger presence in New York than the Albanians are the Italians, Russians, Chinese, Colombians, Cubans and possibly the Dominicans. I realize that me rating the Albanians #6 hurts your ethnic pride but that's just too damn bad.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby razbojnik » September 10th, 2008, 1:07 am

Image

So much for pride...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Military casualties...

Serbs - 703 killed

UCK - 5,000 killed

What a victory LOL....

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby Faciulina » September 10th, 2008, 12:53 pm

First off, there are 550,000 to 750,000 Albanians in America. The overwhelming majority in the north-east and Detroit. Second off, the Albanians are stronger today then they are in 1997. This proves you have no idea what your talking about. As Albanians establish themselves here in America they get stronger. You ignorantly thinkg Alex Rudaj is the most powerful Albanian mobster here in America. Thats wrong, even the video I posted up of the guy who sent $30 million USD to Kosova and sent entire planes full of guns would be more powerful then Rudaj.


no you are wrong the albanian mob is weaker than 1997 you believe it or not...

In Greece, Albanians control the majority of almost every illegal business. They control over 90% of the heroin there. Almost 100%. The Italian mafia is not as powerful in Greece then the Albanians. That only in your dreams.


the albanians are just an ordinary gang there they are mostly involved in street crimes and some heroin and prostitution they are not involved in extortions loan-shoarking gambling money laundering unions transports politics connections and high-level crimes... i bet the sacra corona earn more than albanian gangs in greece that's the proof the albanians have not any real mafia

Yes the only crime groups getting stronger is the Ndrangheta and the Mexican cartels. The Albanians and Russians were powerful in the mid 1990's but not anymore. Everyone suddenly changed their ways and the two mafias became extinct. Also according to you Albanians aren't violent like in the 90's. Now the homicide rate in Albania is five. The Albanian mafia only makes about seven to ten billion a year. Your a genius Faciulina!


i know it's bad for you to hear this but it's the truth

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby TeeKay » September 10th, 2008, 10:24 pm

Does anyone notice all the contradictions in albaniaunited's posts?

Both him and johnny started by saying the rudaj gang were powerful,then they say he's "nothing" and that there is plenty more albo gangsters that are powerful.

Then they both retract their statement and say he had every albanian crim in the bronx as an associate?

Geez you can't talk sense to these kids!

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby razbojnik » September 10th, 2008, 11:10 pm

TeeKay wrote:Does anyone notice all the contradictions in albaniaunited's posts?

Both him and johnny started by saying the rudaj gang were powerful,then they say he's "nothing" and that there is plenty more albo gangsters that are powerful.

Then they both retract their statement and say he had every albanian crim in the bronx as an associate?

Geez you can't talk sense to these kids!


People from the Balkans are a little hard headed when it comes to nationalism, so don't even bother trying. Fucking people here, you have to calm them down by force...

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby razbojnik » September 10th, 2008, 11:20 pm

TeeKay wrote:Does anyone notice all the contradictions in albaniaunited's posts?

Both him and johnny started by saying the rudaj gang were powerful,then they say he's "nothing" and that there is plenty more albo gangsters that are powerful.

Then they both retract their statement and say he had every albanian crim in the bronx as an associate?

Geez you can't talk sense to these kids!


People from the Balkans are a little hard headed when it comes to nationalism, so don't even bother trying. Fucking people here, you have to calm them down by force...

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby thewestside » September 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm

TeeKay wrote:Does anyone notice all the contradictions in albaniaunited's posts?

Both him and johnny started by saying the rudaj gang were powerful,then they say he's "nothing" and that there is plenty more albo gangsters that are powerful.

Then they both retract their statement and say he had every albanian crim in the bronx as an associate?

Geez you can't talk sense to these kids!


Yeah, I've noticed this and pointed it out a number of times.

Both of them started out by hyping the Rudaj gang to almost mythical proportions. However, when they are then faced with the facts about the Rudaj gang and how little they mattered in the long run, they have to immediately switch their game plan by saying that it doesn't matter because there are other more powerful Albanian groups in the U.S.

It's too bad. AlbaniaUnited started out pretty reasonable but then quickly degenerated into another JohnnyRed. Even referring to Albanian organized crime as "we." What a joke.

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Re: Albanian mafia in NY

Unread postby AlbaniaUnited » October 4th, 2008, 1:15 pm

I see this old conversation is still on here. Well anyway I cannot provide you guys with more information then I have. Well maybe a little more but you guys will just shoot it down. I mean Fred Snelling is in the FBI and you guys treat his quotes like shit. lol. I am not even giving my opinion on Alex Rudaj anymore. Whether is think he is powerful or not does not matter, especially on this forum. But I'll tell you what. He showed a fucking truckload of Ambition, Balls and Heart which in my opinion is what almost all Albanian gangsters show everybody. He beat up made men, took over clubs, pointed guns at a mafia family boss and even insulted many other lcn members by stealing their nicknames and whats not written on any reports of him is that he used to make fun of them as much as he could. Paul Castellano had a man murdered just for speaking negatively about him. And he was made I think.

Anyway Alex Rudaj was powerful compared to the average gangster. He controlled his own organisation which had a good number of members and associates. Most of you rely on westside for information and go by what he says which is fine. It doesnt matter to me anymore really. Rudaj was a stone cold Albanian gangster who did what ever the fuck his mind told him to do. He lasted 11 years as a boss which is a lot longer then most Italian mafia boss'. Sure his whol organisation went down with him but thats only because his member count was not that big and his associates relied on his members so the corporation pretty much fell almost completely. There are 8-10 members of the organisation still left but whether or not they know each other or work with each other or even call themselves members of the corporation is up for debate. And the Corporation associates are probably doing their own thing now too.


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