End of The Colombo and Bonano Families?

[thewestside]

REALLY? so FARC and the TALIBAN and the IRA and the KGB and the SANDINISTAS.....and the ......on and on and on ALL according to the FBI are OC?-oh! I see a cop -like gallardo-arellano is considered OC although the chap used his ex-military and police contacts to smuggle drugs. How you or anyone considers a majority of these groups "mafia" is beyond me. Instead of corrupting public officials to maintain their position ---they are in most cases corrupt public officials. The Sinaloa cartel has said that the ZETAS they are fighting are police. Which I agree with wholeheartedly. The sinoloa cartel has said that the police routinely bust them -and instead of questioning their members they kill them. So according to the Sinaloa cartel-( whom I tend to believe) the are fighting the poice and goverment. Tell me how does a corrupt Army unit or police squad come to be considered OC?

You'd be surprised how often organized crime groups have crossed over the line into terrorism, and how often terrorist groups have crossed the line over into organized crime. Especially in more recent times. In order to protect their interests, the Sicilian Mafia killed judges and other Italian officials in the late 1980's and early 1990's, including through the use of bombs. They blew up different sites on the mainland in Italy. In Colombia, the Medellin Cartel took out numerous officials, and even had a jet liner blown out of the sky. The Mexicans have followed in the same suit, killing any officials they can't intimidate. Conversely, some of the funds that support Al-Qaeda and the Taliban come from heroin trafficking, arms trafficking, fraud, and other crimes. Today, FARC is about as much an organized crime group (because of their cocaine trafficking) as they are a terrorist/revolutionary group.

The label OC is not to be confused with 'mafia" of which these groups mostly have no similarities with. The world over and the history of the world has had people in goverment "PARASITES" abuse their power and the people they are supposed to protect. Its pretty much WHY the mafia was formed. Its pretty much why many gangs were formed. These are the very rats the real criminals are fighting against. To label them PARAMILITARY or CORRUPT COPS is way more dead on then to label them "MAFIA".

You have to understand that, for a group to be considered "organized crime," they don't have to exactly mirror everything related to the Italian Mafia. You seem to be focusing more on what is considered a "Mafia," than what is considered "organized crime." For example, the drug gang in Detroit that called itself the "Black Mafia" could be considered "organized crime." Though not really a Mafia in the traditional sense.

[mayugastank]

Ok-what are we doing here are we looking for someone to renig? I mean -The arellanos used their EX military and police backgrounds to exploit the security at the TJ border. The Zetas are exactly what I said A RENEGADE TREASONOUS ARMY UNIT. The kaibiles whom transport drugs throughout Latin America-and into Mexico --were a shadow army that massacred thousands during Guatemalas civil war. Those that arent TRAITORS to the people and the goverment they swore to protect are currently serving the Guatemalean people. I am a firm believer in mathematics solving most complex questions.....The rule of proportions would answer this supposed OC -question. The rule says if it takes a certain ( insert ) to equal ( insert ) then the parts must be equal. The question should be : does the corruption exibited by members of congress and police forces in the United States and for example BERNARD MADOFF ponzi scheme....equal organized crime? YES SURELY. Do congress and Berny and his cronies equal an OC crime group? What would be the requisites of someone or some persons' being labeled a Organized Crime Group and WHERE does the line between OC crime groups and Govermental Corruption end?....BEfore any other responses to this "QUESTION" that must be first established.

[mayugastank]

Russian mafia abroad is a myth – head of Russian Interpol bureau
December 23, 2009 by The Boss · Leave a Comment

There is no organized Russian criminal community abroad, said Timur Lakhonin, the head of the Russian National Central Bureau of Interpol.



Russian Mafia

“The notion of mafia implies connections with political and government structures. I believe there is no Russian mafia abroad in this sense,” Lakhonin said at a press conference at the Interfax main office on Tuesday.

“Certainly, there is crime involving our former compatriots abroad,” but there is no data suggesting that an organized structure of criminal groups comprising former Russians exists abroad, Lakhonin said.
“Statistically, this looks like this: for instance, Russians accounted for less than 1% of crimes in Germany, most often not in an organized form,” he said.

[mnjmc]

Sometimes I believe mexicans like you lack an identity SO much they resort to romanticizing a corrupt -cop run organization like a majority of the cartels.

No body is romanticizing them. I just saying the obvious in that they are an organized crime group.

The zetas thru and thru are an extension of the goverment---funded and trained . What pray me-do soldiers of a goverement come to resemble a mafia? MY ASS! Just like the hyped and overblown Russian mafia-full of senators/politicians and ex army and security forces. The mexican cartel is NO DIFFERENT. How do soldiers whom deserted their posts come to be labeled MAFIA?

The Zetas are definitely not an extension of the government. Zetas are the most pursued group in Mexico. The Mexican government goes after and kill them the most,. You see Noriega was the government in Nicaragua, his sovereign nation, and made up the rules as he saw fit. The Zetas don’t have that luxury, they have to work around the government of Mexico and take advantage of whatever corruption/cracks they can use. That’s why they are an organized crime group, NOT A MAFIA because no one is calling them that.

“Or how does a man like Miguel Felix Gallardo -an ex member of the Federal Police ( USAs version of the US Marshalls) come to represent a folk hero? So in these very countrys the main line of thought is that corruption has kept most of latin America in their 3rd world status. Yet despite this---a man like Felix-Gallardo somehow comes to represent an outlaw mexican revolutionary”.....whom more then likely throughout his career as a PIG ---busted/arrested and used his badge for the very corruption that has kept MExico where its at. Or did this supposed GANGSTER look the other way while a police officer and never bust anyone? whom more then likely throughout his career as a PIG ---busted/arrested and used his badge for the very corruption that has kept MExico where its at. Or did this supposed GANGSTER look the other way while a police officer and never bust anyone?[/

Felix Gallardo is not seen as a revolutionary. The guy is more myth and made to be more important in the drug business than what he was because of the whole Camarena thing. By the time he got arrested Amado Carrillo was becoming the most powerful drug lord in Mexico. Although Amado did carry police credentials, he never was really a cop, he didn’t go to any academy or swore any oath. He paid for those credentials so he could move around easier. Which was quiet common back in 80s and 70s in Mexico. Drug Lords getting ranks in the federal police so they their get out of jail free card. Not saying that’s the case with Gallardo because he definitely started out as a cop, but Gallardo was never as big as people claim he was.

I know that the Italian Mafia have this whole thing about not having cops in their ranks but they sure as hell used dirty cops to help them out. Just recently two cops were convicted of being Mafia hitmen. The Mafia is not anti-government, the use corruption in governments to abuse their own people even more. Whether it be stealing money from Unions or extorting legal business, they don’t care how they get there money, because they are parasites. And they will use dirty politicians and crooked cops to go after their enemies.

Don’t remain an idiot all your life Mayu. Forget those fairytales about the Mafia being anti-government and as you ridiculously claimed fighting for the people. The Mafia is all about money, and being anti-government would seriously cut into their profits.

“The Zetas are in teh simplest terms a TREASONOUS-RENEGADE ARMY UNIT. Nothing more. They have used Las Maras and others for their dirty work simply because NO ONE has ever accused these guys of being smart enough to know that they are canon fodder.

Yeah I agree with the Zetas being a treasonous army unit. But they are also a group of people that make money by illegally means, the Zetas are not part of the government, they have no political or social goal, and money is the only thing that drives them, their leaders get taken out and more step up to fill the position. That’s why they are an OC group.

At least you are staring realize the Maras are just throw away gunmen, and not over hype their influence like before. So some of what I say is getting to you.

“The sinoaloa cartel has said thru intermediaries that they arent part and parcel to the corrupt goverement--and that they are fighting this very goverment machine who routinely TRYS to use their power to make sure the only people doing illegal deeds are thus said GOVERMENT.

The Sinaloa Cartel has the highest government contacts and probably has the best relationship with the government. You know why, because they smuggle the most drugs and make the most money. Who in the hell told you this lie about the Sinaloa cartel using intermediaries to say they are fighting against the government machine, the Sinaloa cartel uses the government to take their enemies more than anybody. You don’t know what you are talking about. The Sinaloa cartel has the best relationship with the Mexican government, but they still get touched. Some of Chapo’s relatives and business partners are in prison, same with Mayo. The Sinaloa cartel uses government corruption for their benefit but they are not part of the government, which is why it’s members still get killed and arrested by the government.

“I said taht above--but like always your dumbass comes in here fuming that I would dare question YOUR fantasy or a mexican-narco-romantic gangster. Whom in reality is nothing more then one of a long line and long storied corrupt politician or political spoke who used his badge-his authority given to him by his people-his connections to actually take out any competitors who might resemble a REAL gangster.

So a real gangster turns into a helpless scarred punk as soon as he sees a badge, so why would anyone want to be them. That’s what you are telling me. Chapo, Mayo, Arturo Beltran come from a place that the federales don’t go to because it’s to risky for them. Same thing with the leaders of La Familia. If federales go to the areas those guys are from then gun fire would drive them out. The Arellano brothers murdered their way into their position before they had the backing of the police in Tijuana, speaking of which Ramon also had police credentials but was never really a cop, same thing as all the others he used it to move around easier and to have a fake Identity.

And I don’t romanticize them, I was just describing them for you. And had to explain to you why it was laughable for you to think that street gangs are calling shots for them. Oh and by the way that guy you hang of the nuts from Bat from EME, he also carried a badge while working as hitman for the Arellanos, as did Popeye. So what you are telling me is that Bat and Popeye were not real gangsters? I guess they were pigs also, EME pigs.

What you are stupid to understand is that once you rise above the level of a street gang that FUUCCKK the police attitude is just not going to cut it. Once you hit the big time you need complicity with the government to function.

[mayugastank]

complacency with the goverment is what any crime group needs to survive. However as I stated before when does a " crime group" nothing more then a corrupt goverment/army unit/police squad.The Arellanos used cops to get business handled-sure...no one denies that. But how many countries in the 3rd world have goverments and "crime groups" that are nothing more then extensions of the same? The sinaloa cartel by your very statements are in essence using law enforcement/goverment to battle their enemies-yet somehow in your eyes they are a crime group SEPERATE from goverment? How so...do they have an oath for being made-a structure ( that wasnt drawn up by the US goverment) or any type of criminal scrupples? Why wouldnt these very same "organizations" have at their very upper echeleon levels -police/politiicans/judges. Or would these "police/politicians/judges" be simply happy with recieving bribes of 1 million instead of income in the excess of 8 billion dollars ( what the US goverment estimates Mexico makes from narcotics).....I mean if I am a cop and know hows bribing me and paying me off/and I know that he is making billions -I aint going to happy with a 1 million. During investigations of the cartels it was discovered -that the major heads of all 5 were either police/army or goverment officials....now is that a surprise to a latin American country? Its at the VERY core of what many revolutionarys in Latin America have battled -that very system were the most corrupt of society arent the criminals but the police who use their authority to break laws.....Below is a list of all 5 colombian cartels-----every single one has had "PIGS ( anyone involved in politics or goverment) " whom either run the organization or whom they use to arrest their rivals. Cartels and Goverments are many times one and the same and should be labeled corruption NOT organized crime groups. Give me a break----with the insluts because the one who is a dumbfuck is you ----your so stupid you actually believe these dirty roaches are some sort of syndicate. Yet by their same token you deny that the IRA/FARC/TALIBAN/SANDINISTAS are.

[mayugastank]

Medellin Cartel
Main article: Medellin Cartel
The Medellin Cartel led by Pablo Escobar established a ruthless organization, kidnapping or murdering those who interfered with its objectives. The Medellin Cartel was responsible for the murders of hundreds of people, including government officials, politicians, law enforcement members, journalists, relatives of same, and innocent bystanders. The cartel sometimes cooperated with guerrilla groups such as the M-19, to process and protect illegal drugs. When conflicts emerged between the Medellin Cartel and the guerrillas, the cartel also promoted the creation of paramilitary groups.

The cartel originally imported most coca from Bolivia and Peru, processing it into cocaine inside Colombia and then distributing it through most of the trafficking routes and distribution points in the U.S., including Florida, California and New York.

The pressure mounted by the US and Colombian governments to counter them led to the cartel's destruction, with key associates being gunned down by police and military forces or turning themselves into authorities in exchange for lenient prison terms.[12]

[edit] Cali Cartel
Main article: Cali Cartel
The Cali Cartel, also known as "Cali's Gentlemen," was based in southern Colombia, around the city of Cali and the Valle del Cauca Department. The Cali Cartel was founded by the Rodríguez Orejuela brothers, Gilberto and Miguel, as well as associate José Santacruz Londoño. The Cali Cartel originally began as a ring of kidnappers known as Las Chemas. The profits of kidnapping helped finance the ring's move to drug trafficking, originally beginning in Marijuana and eventually spreading to Cocaine. The cartel's estimated revenue would eventually reach an estimated $7 billion a year.[13][14][15] The cartel's influence also spread to the political and justice system. It also played a role in the manhunt that led to the death of Pablo Escobar, helping form the vigilante group "Los Pepes", which worked alongside members of the government's elite Bloque de Busqueda, exchanging information on the whereabouts of Escobar and key figures in the Medellín Cartel.

After the collapse of the cartel, it was discovered it was wiretapping phone calls made into and out of Bogotá,[16][17] and was engaged in money laundering using numerous front companies spread throughout Colombia.

[edit] Norte del Valle Cartel
Main article: Norte del Valle Cartel
The Norte del Valle Cartel, or North Valley Cartel, is a drug cartel which operates principally in the north of the Valle del Cauca department of Colombia. It rose to prominence during the second half of the 1990s, after the Cali Cartel and the Medellín Cartel fragmented, and was known as one of the most powerful organizations in the illegal drugs trade. The chiefs of the Norte del Valle cartel included Diego León Montoya Sánchez, Wilber Varela and Juan Carlos Ramírez Abadía. Of the original leaders of the cartel, Wilber Varela was the last remaining member being sought by the authorities, but was found dead on January 31 2008.[citation needed]

The Norte del Valle cartel is estimated to have exported more than 1.2 million pounds – or 500 metric tons – of cocaine worth in excess of $10 billion from Colombia to Mexico and ultimately to the United States for resale. Indictments filed in the United States charge the Norte del Valle cartel with using violence and brutality to further its goals, including the murder of rivals, individuals who failed to pay for cocaine, and associates who were believed to be working as informants. Leaders of the Norte del Valle cartel were further alleged to have bribed and corrupted Colombian law enforcement and Colombian legislators to, among other things, attempt to block the extradition of Colombian narcotics traffickers to the United States for further prosecution. According to the indictments filed in the United States, members of the Norte del Valle cartel even conducted their own wiretaps in Colombia to intercept the communications of rival drug traffickers and Colombian and United States law enforcement officials.

The cartel is believed to have employed the services of the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), a right-wing paramilitary organization internationally classified as a terrorist organization, to protect the cartel’s drug routes, its drug laboratories, and its members and associates. The AUC is one of the 37 Foreign Terrorist Organizations identified by the U.S. State Department in 2004.

[edit] North Coast Cartel
Main article: North Coast Cartel
The North Coast Cartel was based in the Colombian city of Barranquilla by the Caribbean coast and was headed by Alberto Orlandez-Gamboa "Caracol" (the snail) considered as ruthless as Pablo Escobar. The organization transshipped significant amounts of cocaine to the United States and Europe via the smuggling routes it controlled from Colombia’s North Coast through the Caribbean. As head of the organization, Gamboa depended on his close associates to conduct the organization’s operations and to insulate himself. As is typical with many Colombia-based organizations, Gamboa compartmentalized his business dealings. In addition, the success of Caracol’s Barranquilla-based drug trafficking organization was attributed, in part, to the respect the drug organization received from other traffickers operating on Colombia’s North Coast. DEA Intelligence indicated that traffickers paid taxes to Gamboa’s organization in order to be allowed to ship drugs out of the North Coast. His influence in this region was so strong that traffickers even asked him for permission before conducting assassinations. On June 6, 1998, Caracol was arrested in Barranquilla, as a result of an ongoing joint investigation between DEA’s Barranquilla Resident Office and the Colombian National Police. After his arrest, Caracol immediately was flown to Bogota, Colombia, where he was held on murder, kidnapping, and terrorism charges. He was extradited to the United States in August 2000. On March 13, 2003, Caracol pleaded guilty to participating in a narcotics trafficking conspiracy that smuggled tens of thousands of kilograms of cocaine into New York and other cities. His plea was announced on the morning he was to go on trial in Federal District Court in Manhattan after losing a crucial appellate ruling.[18] With the capture of Gamboa the North Coast Cartel structure was later dismantled by the Colombian National Police.[19]

[mayugastank]

In every one of those "CARTELS" ---paramilitary or police were used to transport the drugs? why? BECAUSE --whom were to bust the police for smuggling? Many times the drugs being smuggled were smuggled by people in goverment---NOT GANGSTERS. Just the same the world over corrupt cops/mayors/govenors/soldiers or anyone else who has abused their power. Give me a break with labeling these people gangsters.MOST would break under a sentence of one day. Most are the elite of society whom used their connections in goverment to become top dawgs. Informing on their rivals and using cops to do their dirty work...and in many cases these cops were business partners or the bosses! Every country and every people and every timeline on earth--has had corrupt no good freaking parasites abuse the people and steal from them or make them contributors to crime. Lets start incorporating the Ugandians and Nambians as Oc crime groups since they are the major counterfeiters and scam artists the world over. MNJMC you need a reality check----The LAPDs crash unit by your definition fits the profile of an organized crime group.

[mnjmc]

complacency with the goverment is what any crime group needs to survive. However as I stated before when does a " crime group" nothing more then a corrupt goverment/army unit/police squad.The Arellanos used cops to get business handled-sure...no one denies that. But how many countries in the 3rd world have goverments and "crime groups" that are nothing more then extensions of the same? The sinaloa cartel by your very statements are in essence using law enforcement/goverment to battle their enemies-yet somehow in your eyes they are a crime group SEPERATE from goverment? How so...do they have an oath for being made-a structure ( that wasnt drawn up by the US goverment) or any type of criminal scrupples? Why wouldnt these very same "organizations" have at their very upper echeleon levels -police/politiicans/judges. Or would these "police/politicians/judges" be simply happy with recieving bribes of 1 million instead of income in the excess of 8 billion dollars ( what the US goverment estimates Mexico makes from narcotics).....I mean if I am a cop and know hows bribing me and paying me off/and I know that he is making billions -I aint going to happy with a 1 million. During investigations of the cartels it was discovered -that the major heads of all 5 were either police/army or goverment officials....now is that a surprise to a latin American country? Its at the VERY core of what many revolutionarys in Latin America have battled -that very system were the most corrupt of society arent the criminals but the police who use their authority to break laws.....Below is a list of all 5 colombian cartels-----every single one has had "PIGS ( anyone involved in politics or goverment) " whom either run the organization or whom they use to arrest their rivals. Cartels and Goverments are many times one and the same and should be labeled corruption NOT organized crime groups. Give me a break----with the insluts because the one who is a dumbfuck is you ----your so stupid you actually believe these dirty roaches are some sort of syndicate. Yet by their same token you deny that the IRA/FARC/TALIBAN/SANDINISTAS are.

Seeing as how the Mafia bribed police and politicians for their benefit then I guess they are not organized crime either, that‘s according to your definition. Hell what your retarded ass is describing about a group that swore and an oath, being anti-government and fighting for the people, what you don’t realize is that’s more of a revolutionary group than any Mafia. Since when did the Mafia in the US fight the government? And by fight I mean fight in a serious fashion as in overthrow. When the Mafia did is work around the government, and they used corruption as a tool to do so. There were reasons why mobster bought off entire police forces when they had the money and power.

So Al Capone is not a real gangsters then because he had police on his pay role, not to mention judges and politicians. And you really think that he never used the police that he paid for against his enemies? Are you really that stupid and naïve. Kid wake up.

You know I don’t know much about the mafia but I heard this story. Lucky Luciano wanted to do away with the whole nonsense of swearing an oath and all the ritual that came with the mafia. He thought all that crap just got in the way of business. That’s all he cared about was making money, not oaths or tradition. The way he left the Mafia in America was very different then when he began in it. Hell even the US government provided him control of the ports during WW2, so does that keep him from becoming a “REAL” gangster. Because obviously the government sure provided him with a lot of power. He even got to go free and live in Italy for the rest of his life, because he helped out the government. So Lucky was not a real gangster then right. The Boss of Boss in the LCN was not a real gangster then according to you.

Kid start thinking like a grown up already.

[Faciulina]

the principal peculiarities of a real mafia are

1) longetivity
2) unit and coordination between clans
2) cerimonian of initiation
4) control of territory
3) no specific politic targets

[mayugastank]

Obviously you are an idiot and twist words around like a svengali-which you are not. What I said -dumbass-( had to throw that in there since you arent capable of a debate without insults)(the telltale sign of an idiot/moron/emotional man/) is that although the mafia used goverment they were SEPERATE from goverment. The cartels arent. The majority of "crime groups" arent. The dilineation between-say the medellin cartel-and groups like Cali cartel whom -used Goverment soldiers (treasonous) cops and others at their very top levels to frame their enemies -kill their rivals-transport drugs. These people werent using their law enforcement contacts--in most cases THEY WERE law enforcement that had gone bad. so Ive stated what I believe should be considered OC crime groups---but really it isnt about what I think -Its about what YOU think.For instance-do North Korean -counterfeiters -fit YOUR label of Organized Crime Groups? They are the best in the business/they are motivated by money. Yet they are many times directed by the North Korean goverment. Are organizations who hold no chain of command -oc? Their are organizations that use law enforcement--yet are very distinct ---from law enforcement. what I am saying is that others are merely one and the same. How will most these orgs end up? well its not unknown is it........Look at the IRA/the cartels in colombia/Farc/ and youll see that most ended up completely run by goverment. The 5 cartels are mostly dismantled and at their heads ( alledgedly) are top law enforcement and what would be considered Terrorrists. Clinton has labeled the drug war in Mexico an insurgency. Who creates insurgencys? Usually political opponents of a goverment in power or terrorrist organizations.

[mnjmc]

Obviously you are an idiot and twist words around like a svengali-which you are not. What I said -dumbass-( had to throw that in there since you arent capable of a debate without insults)(the telltale sign of an idiot/moron/emotional man/)

Retard I don’t debate you, I correct you.

although the mafia used goverment they were SEPERATE from goverment.

So is the Sinaloa Cartel. Uses the government for its benefit but is SEPERATE from it. Because again moron its leaders never had a government job in their life. Same goes for La Familia. Gulf cartel not so much, they have some guys that WERE cops, again to me it makes a difference whether they are currently police or not. The Arellano boys were never cops either.

The cartels arent. The majority of "crime groups" arent. The dilineation between-say the medellin cartel-and groups like Cali cartel whom -used Goverment soldiers (treasonous) cops and others at their very top levels to frame their enemies -kill their rivals-transport drugs.

The only reason that the Mobsters like Al Capone did not use soldiers to fight his enemies is because the US did not deploy troops to fight bootleggers. But he sure as hell used cops against his competitors.

Again retard when Lucky Luciano rook over the ports HE HAD GOVERNMENT BACKING. By your very own words he is parasitical government pig, not what YOU yourself call a “REAL” gangster.

So Al Capone and Luciano had strong backing from segments in government but are separate from them. Same thing as the Sinaloa Cartel.

The original Zetas USED to be soldiers, to me it makes a difference whether they are currently active soldiers or not. But hey so are some gang and EME members. So are these gang and EME members that used to be a soldiers treasonous PIGS to. Or do you give them a pass also?

Hell even some mobster enlisted in the Service. But some how you they are not treasonous PIGS to you.

How come those guys get a pass from being called pigs from you?

These people werent using their law enforcement contacts--in most cases THEY WERE law enforcement that had gone bad.

Yeah some, and they are in the minority, but MOST are not. Again most of the leaders in this Cartels were never cops. And if they were cops, they were usually low ranking local cops. Not some high level Federal Comandante like you want to believe.

Sinaloa- Non cop boss
La Familia- Non cop boss
Arellanos- Non cop boss
Beltran Leyva- Non cop boss.
Juarez- Non cop boss

The only one you can really is Zetas because they were soldiers and an Ex soldier runs them, and also the Gulf cartel. Although el Golfo was not started by cops, eventually Osiel Cardenas took it over. But Osiel did not use his lowly municipal cop position to take over a cartel, he ended up washing cars after being a cop then started getting in the drug business. The reason being that the cars he washed were drug dealers cars. So if you want to call Osiel a government pig, hey feel free to do so, but he did not use that low ass position of municipal cop to take out his enemies and gain power, otherwise he wouldn’t of quit.

Do these cartels have people who used to be in government or are currently in government working for them, sure, but that they not make them part of the government.

Like I said the Sinaloa Cartel is Mexico’s most powerful, but the government still goes after them. Just recently the Mexican government just killed one of it’s leaders in Jalisco, Ignacio Coronel, who was also never a cop. You know why the government still goes after them? Because they are not part of the government.

But if so then NAME THEM. What are the cops names, agency, and rank they had? The info you posted from wiki, the retards source for information, gave off none of that information about the Colombians. You are just assuming, it’s obvious you really have no clue what you are talking about.

so Ive stated what I believe should be considered OC crime groups---but really it isnt about what I think -Its about what YOU think.For instance-do North Korean -counterfeiters -fit YOUR label of Organized Crime Groups? They are the best in the business/they are motivated by money. Yet they are many times directed by the North Korean goverment

That counterfeiting thing to is a more of tactic by North Korea against the US more than anything. To me it’s not really organized crime because absolutely nothing happens in North Korea with out it’s Communist Dictator approving. North Korea is not like the US were you can work around a government. It’s a communists country, everything happening over there is run by the government.

But if a bunch of counterfeiters leave North Korea and start printing phony money, not to mention start organizing themselves. Then they would start something that could become an organized crime group.

Are organizations who hold no chain of command -oc?

Every organization has a chain of command you retard. Otherwise they wouldn’t be an organization. And you want me stop insulting your limited intelligence. As you can see that’s kind of hard to do.

Their are organizations that use law enforcement--yet are very distinct ---from law enforcement.

So are the Cartels in Mexico and Colombia. They use law enforcement but they are not law enforcement.

what I am saying is that others are merely one and the same

Yeah and what I’m saying is that you are wrong about that, like you are wrong about everything else you say.

How will most these orgs end up? well its not unknown is it........Look at the IRA/the cartels in colombia/Farc/ and youll see that most ended up completely run by goverment.

Again retard I never called the IRA or FARC organized crime, no body did. No one is arguing that they are organized crime. You just can’t help but bring them up because you think it helps out your weak argument. And no FARC territory is run by FARC, and IRA turf is run by IRA. They are the government in their territories. There are different laws in IRA territory then the rest of Ireland. Why because IRA IS THE GOVERNMENT in its land. That’s the whole reason the IRA exist, they don’t recognize the government already in place. Same thing with FARC in Colombia.

As for the cartels in Colombia there are no more big groups that come from there. The government can’t control them because there are too many of them to keep track of.

The 5 cartels are mostly dismantled and at their heads ( alledgedly) are top law enforcement and what would be considered Terrorrists.

Which five Cartels? And who are these top law enforcement? You don’t know and you are just making statements with out backing them up with names and information.

The only name you called out names was Gallardo and the Arellanos. Only reason you know them is because you look up things related to EME. Other than that you don’t know about the cartels in Mexico unless you read it here from me.

Oh and before I forget. Since Bat and Popeye carried police credentials, like Amado and the Arellano brothers did, does that make them government pigs also? So these EME guys were not real gangsters after all? If not then why do you give them a pass.?

Clinton has labeled the drug war in Mexico an insurgency. Who creates insurgencys? Usually political opponents of a goverment in power or terrorrist organizations.

Clinton is just looking at the violence. Most the violence in Mexico is being caused by the organizations loosing this war, by who a I mean the Juarez, Zetas, and Beltran Leyva. Non of those groups want to overthrow the government, that would make them a true insurgency. They are just getting desperate, committing horrible acts to not look weak against their enemies.

Like Westside told you. The Mafia in Italy also resorted to terrorism when they were being pursued too hard by the government. It’s an act of desperation. Same thing as the loosing Cartels in Mexico. Yet like always you give the Mafia a pass, the rest you don’t.

[mayugastank]

YES ABSOULETELY -I make exceptions to the mafia using PIGS. I make exception to the YUKUZA-STREETGANGS-LA EME-NF-and all the rest whom use PIGS to do their dirty work because....All these have official ways of making a member-all have rules about informing ( although they break them) and although they use police usually they arent police. You said how did I label all 5 major cartels in colombia corrupt goverment agencys? Well the Medellin cartel used goverment soldiers and created a sort of unofficial army in hunting Pablo Escobar. FARC is the top smuggler of drugs-soldiers not gangsters are usually the biggest drug kingpins. Its the same everywhere. What are the names of these supposed top dawgs in Russia who run OC? what Ive read is that they are groups of army intelligence and corrupt goverment types. So now we can go ahead and label them an OC group in your mind. What a crock -what per se do these groups do? I mean we all know that when a mexican cartel member gets extradited they sing like canarys/WHY? because usually they were the elite of society who got into drugs by connections to goverments. How many times have we heard about mexican army soldiers shooting at the US border patrol who had just stopped them from entering the USA to smuggle drugs. Treasonous army units. EL BARBIE supposedly got involved in forming LOS NEGROS because of the zetas penchant for murdering people and their families while doing it with the backing of the goverment and cops. We dont know what will happen with these cartels...hardly any are older then 20 years old. A drop in the bucket compared to alot of the original crime groups. They are all in their nacency. MEaning that they can go either way. LA FAMILIA LA FAMILIA ......you scream! bitch....they started in 2006 how the hell you going to even label them something when they are 5 years old? Did all these people just jump on the bandwagon and decalre an allegiance to a new MAFIA. Nah I bet they used -terms of endearment that a political party would use. GEt the phug outta here with your narco fantasy. They are pigs...more so then your mother ever was. ......

[mayugastank]

La Familia cartel is sometimes described as quasi-religious since its current leaders, Moreno González and Méndez Vargas, refer to their assassinations and beheadings as "divine justice"[11] and that they may have direct or indirect ties with devotees of the New Jerusalem religious movement, which is noted for its concern for justice issues.[12]

La Familia’s boss and spiritual leader Nazario Moreno González, (a.k.a.: El Más Loco or The Craziest One) has published his own 'bible',[11][13] and a copy seized by Mexican federal agents reveals an ideology that mixes evangelical-style self help with insurgent peasant slogans. Moreno González seems to base most of his doctrine on the work by a Christian writer John Eldredge. The Mexican justice department stated in a report that Gonzalez Moreno has made Eldredge's book Salvaje de Corazón (Wild at Heart) required reading for La Familia gang members and has paid rural teachers and National Development Education (CONAFE) to circulate Eldredge's writings throughout the Michoacán countryside.[14][15] An idea central to Eldredge's message is that every man must have "a battle to fight, a beauty to rescue and an adventure to live." Eldredge quotes from Isaiah 63, which describes God wearing blood-stained clothes, spattered as though he had been treading a wine press. Then he writes: "Talk about Braveheart. This is one fierce, wild, and passionate guy. I have never heard Mister Rogers talk like that. Come to think of it, I never heard anyone in church talk like that, either. But this is the God of heaven and Earth."



Look at this supposed MAFIA leader --preaching religion publishing his own bible. He makes people read books.He is a nutjob----who is in the fashion of David Korish....and other religious wack jobs....if this wasnt true above I wouldve never believed it. HAhahahaha..............EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE MAFIA IN MEJICO;

[mnjmc]

YES ABSOULETELY -I make exceptions to the mafia using PIGS. I make exception to the YUKUZA-STREETGANGS-LA EME-NF-and all the rest whom use PIGS to do their dirty work because

So you admit you show favoritism towards different groups. That means what you say cannot be trusted because it is tainted.

So we went from OC groups being anti-government, fighting for the people (which by the way is one of the stupidest things I ever read) and being against corruption(again one of the stupidest things I ever read). To OC groups being in favor of government corruption, abusing there own people even more, and even working with government. You do this a lot, you start out saying one then change it up and hopes of not looking like a retard.

Now that we got it clear that you are going completely against what you said a OC group was, that just reinforces the fact that what you say cannot be trusted because you keep changing your mind about it.

...All these have official ways of making a member-all have rules about informing ( although they break them)

Although they break them. How easily you just brush that aside.

And again the Boss of Boss Lucky Luciano thought that was garbage, because let’s face it when the government was backing him had to do a little informing on his competition.

They all inform on their competition if they get the chance. All the shit about not ratting is just feel good stuff you tell the new recruits. With big OC groups have large amounts of money that can be lost or gained. They take any advantage they could get.

and although they use police usually they arent police.

Same with the Cartels in Mexico. Non of them are active police using the authority of the badge to get ahead in the drug business. And if so then provide some names. You can’t because you don’t know, you are just assuming what you want to believe.

You said how did I label all 5 major cartels in colombia corrupt goverment agencys? Well the Medellin cartel used goverment soldiers and created a sort of unofficial army in hunting Pablo Escobar.

Ok I’m going to give you a break an assume you meant the Cali Cartel and not Medellin. Pablo ran the Medellin Cartel and was pursued by the Cali Cartel.

The reason Colombia used government soldiers against Pablo was because he became too dangerous, he was setting of huge explosions that killed hundreds. Cali did not order the troops around to hunt Pablo you retard, they took advantage of the government pursuit of the guy. The AUC was not being ordered around by Cali either. You really don’t have a clue as to what went down in Colombia.
Like most wikipedia researchers you are a retard that likes to look smart by finding little tidbits of information.

Cali took advantage of the campaign against Pablo and probably provided some info to the authorities, like any OC group would, but the reason troops were deployed against him was his acts of terrorism and pressure from the US.

Like all OC groups Cali used the situation at hand to take out their competition. No where in the little wiki article you provided did it mention that some government official runs them. It said some higher class people started it.

As for the other cartels you mention where does it say they were government run. Do you lack reading comprehension also. Either Name the high level law enforcement guy that is king of all the drug traffic you keep talking about or just admit you are assuming it and really have no clue who the leaders of those cartels are.

Name the Cartel and its leader and what law enforcement position the cartel boss has. Then maybe I’ll start to take you a little more seriously.

FARC is the top smuggler of drugs-soldiers not gangsters are usually the biggest drug kingpins. Its the same everywhere.

FARC is not a top smuggler of drugs, they are a top producer. And no soldiers are not usually the major kingpins, for one FARC are not soldiers they are rebels/insurgents. Your retarded ass can‘t even keep definitions right. Now I’m sure the higher ranking FARC members live better than the grunt soldier but FARC is using most of its money from wherever they get it to fight the government. That’s why I don’t include them as an OC group, nobody does. In that point about FARC not being OC I’m in agreement with you. They are not producing cocaine to live it up like some kingpins. Colombia is at war with them, whatever money FARC makes it is used to fund that war.

An OC group main goal is money. FARC doesn’t fit that category.

What are the names of these supposed top dawgs in Russia who run OC? what Ive read is that they are groups of army intelligence and corrupt goverment types. So now we can go ahead and label them an OC group in your mind.

You can label them an OC group if they quit their government positions and start their own operations with out the government directing them. Then in my mind they become an OC group.

Plus the Russian OC groups are from many different backgrounds, a lot of them not even Russian. That cliche about them being mainly Ex KGB is media hype to feed to retards like you.

What a crock -what per se do these groups do? I mean we all know that when a mexican cartel member gets extradited they sing like canarys/WHY?

Because they are usually facing life. The Mafia today in the US do things that don’t get him that much prison time. The police in Italy have been very successful in gathering snitches too. Why do you think the Mafia over their started blowing things up. Most criminals from any back ground would cooperate when they are facing the rest of their life in prison. And you would do it to.

But you still want to believe those fairytales about not snitching.

“because usually they were the elite of society who got into drugs by connections to goverments.”

What do you think only broke guys get into crime. People from all walks of life do.

For what it is worth Chapo, Mayo and Arturo Beltran grew up dirt poor. The Arellanos brothers had money but that’s because their family got it from drug smuggling but before that they were just as broke. Osiel he was washing other guy’s cars. La Familia started out in rural Michoacan, so they were no where near elite. Medellin was run by Pablo who was a regular street guy.

And yeah after they started getting major funds they got connections to the government, but THAT’S WHAT ALL OC GROUPS.

“How many times have we heard about mexican army soldiers shooting at the US border patrol who had just stopped them from entering the USA to smuggle drugs. Treasonous army units ”

I heard a lot about CURRENT US soldiers that are gang member committing crimes. So why don’t you call them treasonous army grunts. Oh that’s right you show favoritism, and lie to yourself so you won’t have to believe those guys are traitors too.

EL BARBIE supposedly got involved in forming LOS NEGROS because of the zetas penchant for murdering people and their families while doing it with the backing of the goverment and cops.

Barbie didn’t form Los Negros, he was given command of a part of it by his boss. And again you retard the Zetas are most pursued group in Mexico, they have the least support/contacts in government. That’s why they are so violent.

We dont know what will happen with these cartels...hardly any are older then 20 years old. A drop in the bucket compared to alot of the original crime groups. They are all in their nacency. MEaning that they can go either way.

Sinaloa and Golfo is going on 40. But I’m not arguing longevity, what I’m arguing is are they or are they not an OC group.

They are all in their nacency. MEaning that they can go either way. LA FAMILIA LA FAMILIA ......you scream! bitch....they started in 2006 how the hell you going to even label them something when they are 5 years old? Did all these people just jump on the bandwagon and decalre an allegiance to a new MAFIA. Nah I bet they used -terms of endearment that a political party would use.

They are in their nacency? That’s the excuse you always for give to EME as to why they still don’t amount to much.

Actually I think I mentioned the Sinaloa cartel a lot more. And La Familia stared out in the 80 as a coalition of Marijuana farmers, but since wikipedia doesn‘t tell you this you don‘t know about it. And no they didn’t just jump on the bandwagon. La Familia had to kill and run off its competition to reach the position that it is in. And it took a lot longer than 5 years.

GEt the phug outta here with your narco fantasy. They are pigs...more so then your mother ever was.

I would talk about your mother, but I feel bad enough for her as it is. I mean she had you.

[mnjmc]

Look at this supposed MAFIA leader --preaching religion publishing his own bible. He makes people read books.He is a nutjob----who is in the fashion of David Korish....and other religious wack jobs....if this wasnt true above I wouldve never believed it. HAhahahaha..............EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE MAFIA IN MEJICO;

.

Same tactics the Mafia uses with the burning of the Saints picture, the drawing of blood, swearing an oath. A way to keep the organization in check.

But make no mistake about it La Familia first mission is to make money. They are not out in the street trying to get converts or living in some compund where they think the leader is a god.

[mayugastank]

I just cant speak to you -your a buffoon. Mexico doesnt have OC groups. Lets just include the whole world in organized crime then --since it suits you. I didnt include LA EME-NF-TS-LCN-YUKUZA-TRIADS- and other gangs --in the mix because they are definetly OC crime groups. They might use cops but they arent cops.
Since you keep asking : Las Zetas are in all essence -an extension of teh goverment. The comparision to corrupt military types in Russia running weapons smuggling and counterfeiting fits here. No longer part of the goverment-and all about money( )


As far as cops in their ranks ..Well Felix Gallardo was a cop. Las Zetas-Los Kaibles-are ex soldiers....soldiers and cops are the same. Cartel members snitch because they have no sense of unity. Although LCN has snitches theirs been hundreds who have gone done -forever-without breathing a word. LA EME has had only 5 snitches ever. You cant take a guy from an army unit make him a gangster and expect him to not inform. Informing is what they do. During the 90s ...The thirteen members of LA EME to go on trial and only one informed. So dont give me that everyone snitches. These cartel members snitch because its not a big deal to them. Its in their nature I mean they WERE soldiers of teh goverment!!!


In early 1997, the Gulf syndicate began to recruit military personnel whom General Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo—Mexico’s “drug czar” who was imprisoned for corruption—began to assign Army officers as representatives of the Attorney General’s Office (PGR) in northern states. In the late 1990s, Osiel Cardenas Guillen, who was in a no-holds-barred fight for leadership of the notorious organization, sought out members of the Army’s elite Airborne Special Forces Groups (Gafes)[4] to provide protection and perform other vital functions. His top recruit, Lieutenant Arturo Guzmán Decenas, brought with him approximately 30 other deserters enticed by salaries substantially higher than those paid by the Mexican government.[5] The original defectors, whose nicknames include “El Winnie Pooh,” “The Little Mother,” and “El Guerra,” had belonged to the 15th and 70th Infantry Battalions and the 15th Motorized Cavalry Regiment.[6] Once Cardenas Guillen consolidated his position, he expanded the role of Los Zetas to collecting debts, securing cocaine supply and trafficking routes known as plazas, discouraging defections from the cartel, and executing its foes—often with grotesque savagery.

[RDRIGN]

Wow Mayu is getting so owned it's not even funny, just stop it guy you're making yourself look like a retard in front of everybody here. You don't know shit about Colombian or Mexican Cartels, you're fighting a loosing battle and you already lost. Just give up. BTW does anyone here knows a forums so I can discuss organized crime?

[mnjmc]

I just cant speak to you -your a buffoon. Mexico doesnt have OC groups. Lets just include the whole world in organized crime then --since it suits you. I didnt include LA EME-NF-TS-LCN-YUKUZA-TRIADS- and other gangs --in the mix because they are definetly OC crime groups. They might use cops but they arent cops.
Since you keep asking : Las Zetas are in all essence -an extension of teh goverment. The comparision to corrupt military types in Russia running weapons smuggling and counterfeiting fits here. No longer part of the goverment-and all about money( )


As far as cops in their ranks ..Well Felix Gallardo was a cop. Las Zetas-Los Kaibles-are ex soldiers....soldiers and cops are the same. Cartel members snitch because they have no sense of unity. Although LCN has snitches theirs been hundreds who have gone done -forever-without breathing a word. LA EME has had only 5 snitches ever. You cant take a guy from an army unit make him a gangster and expect him to not inform. Informing is what they do. During the 90s ...The thirteen members of LA EME to go on trial and only one informed. So dont give me that everyone snitches. These cartel members snitch because its not a big deal to them. Its in their nature I mean they WERE soldiers of teh goverment!!!


In early 1997, the Gulf syndicate began to recruit military personnel whom General Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo—Mexico’s “drug czar” who was imprisoned for corruption—began to assign Army officers as representatives of the Attorney General’s Office (PGR) in northern states. In the late 1990s, Osiel Cardenas Guillen, who was in a no-holds-barred fight for leadership of the notorious organization, sought out members of the Army’s elite Airborne Special Forces Groups (Gafes)[4] to provide protection and perform other vital functions. His top recruit, Lieutenant Arturo Guzmán Decenas, brought with him approximately 30 other deserters enticed by salaries substantially higher than those paid by the Mexican government.[5] The original defectors, whose nicknames include “El Winnie Pooh,” “The Little Mother,” and “El Guerra,” had belonged to the 15th and 70th Infantry Battalions and the 15th Motorized Cavalry Regiment.[6] Once Cardenas Guillen consolidated his position, he expanded the role of Los Zetas to collecting debts, securing cocaine supply and trafficking routes known as plazas, discouraging defections from the cartel, and executing its foes—often with grotesque savagery.

Again with your wikipedia research. You want to maintain a retard all your life don’t you.

All the things you said in this post is things you have said in your other post. You don’t really defend your position you just keep repeating your last statements even though I have already corrected you about them. You do what you always do, deny repeat deny repeat.

You are like a retarded monkey that can't even come up with a new argument when others have you cold.

Well I’m done. You want to keep leaving in fantasy land then go ahead.

And could you do me a favor and stop bringing up EME all the damn time. They are small time and won’t ever amount to much because that is their nature. They got glimpses of the big time but they never could handle it.

In short, in this discussion you changed your definition of what a OC group is, anyone can read your retarded ass earlier statements about OC groups fighting for the people. And you make excuses when I bring up times the Mafia used the same tactics as Cartels use. Your biggest defense was this nonsense about an oath, something Lucky Luciano thought was stupid. You change up what you say and make excuses for the groups you show favoritism. Why do you do this, because you don't want to look foolish for the other retarded things you said and it shows how faulty your statements are.

[mayugastank]

So theres this guy and he believes he is dead....every morning he wakes up and says to his wife " I AM DEAD"...his family humor him but eventually get him to see a doctor. The doctors theorize that if they convince the man that only a person who is alive can bleed -then he will drop his fantasy. They show him tests-they show him research -they show him scientific documents....finally the man admits that only a person who is alive can bleed. Immediately after his admission a doctor plunges a needle into the mans arm and makes him bleed. The man screams "HOLY SHIT, dead people can bleed too?!!!"........this is YOU amigo.


Nothing I say will convince you of what you believe. I only come to believe anything I have, after looking into the matter. I dont ever form opinions-that are unchangeable. Science says that it is EVER changing-new information.....new theory. As of yet- most of the cartels in Mexico have come to resemble paramilitary structures NOT mafias, or crime groups. Its not a NEW -concept ,goverment has always been corrupt in every land. The most active pimps in vietname-thailand and laos...were army units/govenors of certain regions. The madams were paying upwards of 50% of their income to police graft. So whats new about Mejico? same old same old.....going back to the beginings of time. Goverment types abusing their power. LA famila was started by las zetas-PIGS-all the cartels were once united with the Arellanos who got their start as pigs.I mean for christ sakes the guy was in Mexicos version of the US MARSHALLS. Yet despite this he wasnt greasing cops -he was a cop. Its probably why he was the first to ever succeed at being a major importer. He knew where to get the drugs /because he was arresting those who were getting it. That AMIGO is corruption.

[mnjmc]

Nothing I say will convince you of what you believe. I only come to believe anything I have, after looking into the matter. I dont ever form opinions-that are unchangeable. Science says that it is EVER changing-new information.

The only reason a retard like you changed what you said about OC groups is because you caught yourself looking like a retard. That OC groups fight for the people and against government corruption. That has to be one of the dumbest most niave things you would think only a seven year old would say. And it’s not like you changed your definition by doing some serious research you retard. You changed it in a matter of three days what your definition what an OC group is. Because you caught yourself looking like a retard.

As for science it always remains the same, you’re getting your definitions wrong again. Theories and technology change, the science stays the same. Science is fact it remains constant. Again retard you try sounding smart and end up looking like more of a retard.

As of yet- most of the cartels in Mexico have come to resemble paramilitary structures NOT mafias, or crime groups.

Only the Zetas have that structure, the one group you obsess about because they were ex military. Even though gang and EME members have joined the military you give them a pass just because you show favoritism.

And by the way not every criminal group in Italy is structured the same. A lot of them don’t have the pyramid style structure you think they have. What matters is that they are structured not how they are structured. That’s what makes them a group.

Its not a NEW -concept ,goverment has always been corrupt in every land. The most active pimps in vietname-thailand and laos...were army units/govenors of certain regions. The madams were paying upwards of 50% of their income to police graft. So whats new about Mejico? same old same old.....going back to the beginings of time. Goverment types abusing their power. LA famila was started by las zetas-PIGS-all the cartels were once united with the Arellanos who got their start as pigs.I mean for christ sakes the guy was in Mexicos version of the US MARSHALLS.

Have you read anything I wrote you retard. No the Zetas did not start La Familia, La Familia started before the Zetas. I know I have read the same wrong information you did about the Zetas starting La Familia. You see you never look deep into things, all you do is your quick wikipedia retard info.

AND NO, ALL THE CARTELS WERE NEVER UNITED WITH THE ARELLANOS. The Arellanos were always the renegades that everyone hated. And no the Arellanos did not got their start as pigs. They had relatives that were cops but no one in there immediate family were. They fought with the powers that be and won the Tijuana plaza. Gallardo did not start the Tijuana Cartel, he was a guy riding under the Sinaloa families, there were people much more powerful than him when he got caught. He did not have the power to hand over plazas. He had nothing to do with Tijuana. Once he got arrested that was it for him. The Arellanos took control of Tijuana in the early 90s, by that time Gallardo was out of the picture.

Yet despite this he wasnt greasing cops -he was a cop.

For a while yes Gallardo was a cop. But he was never a boss, he worked under people. The family that controlled him were the Quinteros.

Its probably why he was the first to ever succeed at being a major importer.

He wasn’t the first, and the drugs he helped import wasn’t his. He was under somebody.

He knew where to get the drugs /because he was arresting those who were getting it. That AMIGO is corruption.

Again the guy was working for a drug family in Sinaloa he got all of the connections he had from them.

Yes it is corruption. The kind Al Capone used. The kind Luciano used. The corruption every successful OC group used. The kind EME will never use because they are too small time.

See you don’t know anything, you just got some idea of what you think is right. With your in depth wikipedia research. That’s why you always refuse to provides names, you don’t know them. I mean saying Arellanos were once united with all the cartels just shows how limited your knowledge is about the cartels in Mexico. In all honestly you don’t know what is going on. Wikipedia won’t tell you the real story so you don’t know.

But answer me this how is the Sinaloa Cartel not an OC group. Chapo Guzman was never any type of government worker. He grew up poor in the remote mountains of Sinaloa. Yet he controls the most powerful cartel in Mexico. According you all the cartels are run by some government worker. But Chapo was never one. How is the Sinaloa Cartel not an OC group. The government kills and captures his members so you can’t be an extension of government. Hell the government almost recaptured the guy twice. Tell me how they are not an OC group.

And why is it that EME and gang members that were soldiers aren’t treasonous PIGS? Answer me this. Just give me straight answer to those two questions.

[mayugastank]

The only reason a retard like you changed what you said about OC groups is because you caught yourself looking like a retard. That OC groups fight for the people and against government corruption. That has to be one of the dumbest most niave things you would think only a seven year old would say. And it’s not like you changed your definition by doing some serious research you retard. You changed it in a matter of three days what your definition what an OC group is. Because you caught yourself looking like a retard.

NEVER SAID THAT PAISA. I said that criminal gangs and like the NF/BGF/EME/YUKUZA/LCN/....are completely seperate from goverment. Their loyalties lie completely to their organizations. I also said that MOST were formed in direct response to corruption in goverement-the system etc....Most have some sort of roots were they took issue with the way -rules of society -were purposely made to target them. Surely you know the italian mafia started in this manner. Others like BGF started in direct response to corruption/racism in goverment. You asked why dont I consider mafiosos who were soldiers treasonous...well consider that in the case of a majority of mafia members I have read about...they were conscripted.DIP. Also gangs are juvenile in nature -usually-they revolve around kids 25 and under. You yourself said the Sinoloa cartel uses cops to do their murders/frame jobs/bust their competition. How so does one even get into a cartel is their a initiation/are their rules/certain tattoo/WHAT? Your a real word shifter. The taliban isnt OC but the Zetas are. Oh they are the most pursued...I bet. Why wouldnt they be they are essentially terrorrists.

[mnjmc]

NEVER SAID THAT PAISA. I said that criminal gangs and like the NF/BGF/EME/YUKUZA/LCN/....are completely seperate from goverment. Their loyalties lie completely to their organizations.

So do the cartel members in Mexico. Any one working for a cartel boss has to be completely loyal to him and not any one else you retard or they get executed.

But let’s be honest, criminals only have loyalty to themselves. In every one of the those organizations members have killed others of the same organization out of jealousy. Some have even killed their own bosses. John Gotti did.

What is most important is not loyalty. The fact is they are separate from government. Like all the Cartels in Mexico are.

I also said that MOST were formed in direct response to corruption in goverement-the system etc....Most have some sort of roots were they took issue with the way -rules of society -were purposely made to target them

No this is what you said.

How could you even label them Organized Crime? They are cops/pigs/senators. They represent everything a true crime organization is against...corruption in goverment and suppressing the free will of people.

Right there you said that OC groups are against corruption in government. Those are your words. Now all of a sudden you want to change it up. I did not twist your words, that’s exactly what you said. I had to correct you and say that OC groups use government corruption but never fight it. You just saw yourself looking like a retard and changed your story.

Surely you know the italian mafia started in this manner.

Who the hell knows how it really started. I just no there are many different crimes groups in Italy, and they all have different structures and histories. Nothing is as cut an dry as you want them to be you retard.

Others like BGF started in direct response to corruption/racism in goverment.

BGF is irrelevant. What the BGF is it’s a failed revolutionary group that tried to get into crime when they were washed up. Crips or Bloods don’t care what the BGF is doing, they are washed up. They don’t factor in no more, no one pays attention to them.

You asked why dont I consider mafiosos who were soldiers treasonous...well consider that in the case of a majority of mafia members I have read about...they were conscripted.DIP.

But I thought they were real gangsters. So you mean to tell me only on simple letter from the some radom guy will compel these true gangster to join the service? Couldn’t they just act like some “REAL” gangsters as you put it and tell Uncle Sam to back of. I guess they are not real gangsters after all.

But I’m still pretty sure more than a few joined of their own free will. And you still won’t call them treasonous pigs.

Also gangs are juvenile in nature -usually-they revolve around kids 25 and under.

That don’t mean shit, most of the original Zetas were in their mid twenties when they joined the Gulf Cartel. And they were in their teens when they joined the Military, they didn’t know what they were doing when they enlisted, they were just some kids.

You yourself said the Sinoloa cartel uses cops to do their murders/frame jobs/bust their competition.

Of course you know why? They are a major organized crime group involved in moving billions of dollars. How do you think Lucky got control of the ports, HE HAD GOVERNMENT BACKING. Yet you always give him a pass. The US government let him out of prison because he helped them out. All major crime groups had or have deep contacts in government to help against their competition. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? Why won’t you accept this simple logical reason? Oh because the mafia has rituals and an oath, but Lucky thought that was bull shit that got in the way of business.

So why you give the head of the LCN commission a pass for working with the government?

All major OC crime groups do it you retard.

How so does one even get into a cartel is their a initiation/are their rules/certain tattoo/WHAT? Your a real word shifter.

A TATTOO? That is another one of those dumbest things I ever heard from you. Yeah Chapo makes his people get a tattoo before they are allowed to hang out with him. You retard, you have no clue how stupid you sound.

Two ways to get into a cartel. You show you are an effective earner or an effective killer. Like any other organization you have to show the group you will be beneficial to them. Same thing as the mafia without the ritual.

The taliban isnt OC but the Zetas are. Oh they are the most pursued...I bet.

Again retard the Taliban fight the government head on. They want to be the government and run a Afghanistan in certain manner. The Zetas just want money. They don’t want to replace the government of Mexico to one they run themselves. They don’t have an ideology driving them. All the Zetas want is to make money. That’s it. That’s what makes them an OC group and not insurgents.

Why wouldnt they be they are essentially terrorrists.

Just like when the Mafia was setting up those bombs in Italy. Westside posted the pictures here. Look at them and tell those aren’t acts of terrorism.

[mayugastank]

You know why your an idiot because you fail to listen ....


mayugastank wrote:
How could you even label them Organized Crime? They are cops/pigs/senators. They represent everything a true crime organization is against...corruption in goverment and suppressing the free will of people.


How the hell your dumbass got that I said OC groups were some power for the people from this -I dont know. YES OC groups ( real ones) are essentially against corruption in goverment. The goverment says DONT SELL DRUGS-ONLY WE CAN DO THAT! ...is what I meant. Suppressing the free will would be them/DO AS I SAY NOT DO WHAT I DO!....These goverments types want the drug flow for themselves /wow! what a surprise that the goverment and its armys would deal in drugs/in mejico!!Please! Its the norm. Why would an official take a bribe instead of taking over?....and how so do these cartel members distinguish eachother.Its why the killing is so senseless. Women and everyone getting chopped. I dont even think they know what the fuck they are doing ...kinda like you. You want to so believe that their is a crime syndicate in mejico that you make them up/although they are in many cases THE GOVERMENT. Shoot the state department has issued NUMEROUS warnings on that. At every border crossing is a sign that says WARNING : These men are involved with the cartel and carry goverment documentation. TAke a look at the phots RDIGN...posted a big percent had uniforms on and others had military haircuts. But your dumb WAB ass doesnt get it.

[mnjmc]

How the hell your dumbass got that I said OC groups were some power for the people from this -I dont know.

Because that’s what you said in your own words you retard.

Don’t give me this bull shit about “what I meant to say was”. It’s right there I didn’t edit what you wrote.

YES OC groups ( real ones) are essentially against corruption in goverment.

No you retard. OC groups are essentially completely for government corruption. That’s what made the Mafia so powerful when first started hitting the big time.

Stop being pathetic and just admit you were wrong.

The goverment says DONT SELL DRUGS-ONLY WE CAN DO THAT! ...is what I meant. Suppressing the free will would be them/DO AS I SAY NOT DO WHAT I DO!

What you just said makes no damn sense retard. Again you try to be clever but just end up looking like even more of a retard.

....These goverments types want the drug flow for themselves /wow! what a surprise that the goverment and its armys would deal in drugs/in mejico!!Please! Its the norm.

Which government types? Who are they? Name some names you retard. Quit acting like you know something. Like all the damn time you just say shit with out backing it up. Provide some actual information to back up your claims for once. Not some retard info like wikipedia.

The government types are bribed to let the cartels operate with impunity.

Why would an official take a bribe instead of taking over?

Because they get killed if they get to full of themselves. Government officials don’t get those jobs to risk their lives. They are usually easily intimidated.

If not then prove me wrong. For once in this whole argument just name something. Give out some information instead of spouting of shit you know you can’t back up. Name the time and place this mythical government official you claim to know about took over the drug trade in Mexico.

It’s obvious you don’t know. Like always you are just saying things without backing them up.

....and how so do these cartel members distinguish eachother.

Oh I forgot, they don’t tattoo each other like some juvenile delinquents so retards like you can’t tell them apart.

Retard in organized crime you are supposed blend into society. Your mind is still stuck on that petty street EME shit that don’t amount to much.

Its why the killing is so senseless. Women and everyone getting chopped. I dont even think they know what the fu-- they are doing ...kinda like you.

I know what they are doing. The cartels that are loosing are committing horrible acts of violence out of desperation. All crime groups do when they get pursued too hard.

You want to so believe that their is a crime syndicate in mejico that you make them up/although they are in many cases THE GOVERMENT.

GIVE OFF EXAMPLES THEN. Who are these government officials and active cops currently running drugs in Mexico. Give of some names. If you can’t name them it’s because you don’t know. All you want to do is make up shit because you know you are wrong.

And how the hell did I make up the Sinaloa Cartel and Chapo Guzman. The man was in the Forbes Magazine listed as a billionaire. You can read about him elsewhere. It’s the cartel you always ignore because they are the most powerful yet its leader never had a government job and grew up poor. That cartel and its leader by itself destroys your concept about it being just corrupt politicians running the show. With a leader like Chapo obviously the Sinaloa Cartel is not run by the government.

Shoot the state department has issued NUMEROUS warnings on that. At every border crossing is a sign that says WARNING

You know why you retard. Because different cartels are fighting each other. Which is more proof that it’s not a government run racket. If that were the case there would be no competitors and the violence wouldn’t be so crazy.

: These men are involved with the cartel and carry goverment documentation. TAke a look at the phots RDIGN...posted a big percent had uniforms on and others had military haircuts. But your dumb WAB ass doesnt get it.

Yeah because he focused on the Zetas. I never denied that they USED TO BE SOLDIERS. Which makes them separate from government you retard. If they were CURRENT ACTIVE SOLDIERS directed by the government then they would be a government run racket. But they are separate from the gov and are pursued by them most. That’s what you don’t get. Like I told you and you just brush it off because you don‘t want to accept you are wrong. EME has had members in it that were soldiers. And you don’t want to call them pigs. Why because they got a tattoo you retard. I know that book on Boxer names two of them if I remember correctly. How come they are not pigs.

Retard stuff like tattoos and saying fucckk the government only works for petty street stuff like EME is into. That’s why they will never rise above that small role they are in.

[mayugastank]

Supposedly a tenth of Mexicos police were fired for corruption YET -you believe they are only getting bribed. Books detailing the bribing -says it was more of a tax then a bribe. Why do these supposed cartels hire military types to do their hits and why do they constantly use soldiers on their rivals? Because THEY -dumbass can. And how CAN they? because the cartels are connected at the hip thru business/family/and ex-soldiers being part of the cartel. Why do you so quickly disregard Gallardo Felix? He was one. If I really begun looking it wouldnt take long to show just how many cops are actually doing murders for the cartels. Are they to be trusted --if they left the goverment for money and never take any oath besides their desire for money -how is it that they are supposed members....what does membership entail? hwo does one become a member instead of a throwaway gunmen like you say. You are delusional and a buffoon what serves you to deny the obvious? In one instance you compliment the ZETAS in the next you say Yeah sure tehy used to be cops. HWo can you USED TO BE a cop? its a mindset isnt it>?go were the money is -but to you their gansta! you dumb fucking jabroni. In your warped taco headed mind-the situation is different when comparing say; Alex Rudaj? is he a crime group?where is his group now? just like teh cartels of colombia pretty much GONZO. But your dipshit ass doesnt acknowledge the level of participation soldiers/cops/mayors/and even all the way to the president involved in drug dealing to you they are JUST taking bribes.
They arent showing favoritism>?BS wab. Its been well discussed that they show favoritism. Why because of ties to these organizations. I cant find enough interest in mejicos cartels do do thorough research but just scratching the surface one is able to tell that -cops/robbers are one in the same in mejico.But you say it likes its a surprise.

[RDRIGN]

To mnjmc(about membership and La Familia):

There isn't really "made" members but there are members higher up than others. I used to have a crew and we used to work for the Gulf Cartels and Los Zetas(when they were together), we used to steal cars and trucks for 1,000 for or so even 7,000 depending on the car/truck, color etc. We made a couple of thousands of bucks each for a good time until, my best friend got caught. Just because you can kill or make quick cash doesn't mean you are part of the organization or cartel, some "sicarios" are paid $25,000-50,000 per hit a lot of them are only paid 1,000 pesos or 100 dollars. The ones that get paid $1000(100 bucks) or $5,000(500 bucks) pesos which most of them are dumb teens or idiots are the ones sent to get killed by the military or they use them as "punta"/"por frente" or frontline in a rivals plaza. I would say that a real cartel member should make more than $30,000 american dollars in Mexico or more than $100,000 in the U.S. Have you noticed that all of the Mexican soldiers killed working as hitmen in the night for a cartel, are always in luxurious cars or have nice homes.

Also La Familia was part of the Gulf Cartel, just like Los Zetas were part of the Gulf Cartel but the La Familia separated from the Gulf Cartel in 2006 and the Zetas in 2010. All of the cartels have more than 30 years or almost hitting 40. The Familia didn't start in 2006 they just separated from the Gulf Cartel, specifically Los Zetas faction and mad an allegiance with the Sinaloa Cartel.

[RDRIGN]

Obviously you are an idiot and twist words around like a svengali-which you are not. What I said -dumbass-( had to throw that in there since you arent capable of a debate without insults)(the telltale sign of an idiot/moron/emotional man/) is that although the mafia used goverment they were SEPERATE from goverment. The cartels arent. The majority of "crime groups" arent. The dilineation between-say the medellin cartel-and groups like Cali cartel whom -used Goverment soldiers (treasonous) cops and others at their very top levels to frame their enemies -kill their rivals-transport drugs. These people werent using their law enforcement contacts--in most cases THEY WERE law enforcement that had gone bad. so Ive stated what I believe should be considered OC crime groups---but really it isnt about what I think -Its about what YOU think.For instance-do North Korean -counterfeiters -fit YOUR label of Organized Crime Groups? They are the best in the business/they are motivated by money. Yet they are many times directed by the North Korean goverment. Are organizations who hold no chain of command -oc? Their are organizations that use law enforcement--yet are very distinct ---from law enforcement. what I am saying is that others are merely one and the same. How will most these orgs end up? well its not unknown is it........Look at the IRA/the cartels in colombia/Farc/ and youll see that most ended up completely run by goverment. The 5 cartels are mostly dismantled and at their heads ( alledgedly) are top law enforcement and what would be considered Terrorrists. Clinton has labeled the drug war in Mexico an insurgency. Who creates insurgencys? Usually political opponents of a goverment in power or terrorrist organizations.

You keep talking that the Mexican Cartels are the same guys as the politicians but you haven't named any high commander, lieutenant or leader in any cartel that is/was a politician, sure there are cops as hitmen or sometimes even commanders but the cartels are very separate from the government. Name us at least ONE cartel commander/lieutenant/ or leader that was a politician. Sure every cartel uses federal or military power to destroy their rivals and it's nothing new but the federal government and military that works for the cartels aren't calling the shots....

[thewestside]

Anyway, enough of arguing about the Mexican cartels and back to the original topic of this thread...


According to the latest Gang Land News article by Jerry Capeci, it looks like Captain Vincent "Vinny TV" Badalamenti has been named the new Acting or Street Boss of the Bonanno family. Recently he was serving as Acting Consigliere. His club was raided by the DEA last December.

VinnyBadalamenti.jpg (24.79 KiB) Viewed 16193 times

http://www.ganglandnews.com/

[mayugastank]

I dont know why they dont disband the Bonanos and the Colombos. I mean how much more demoralized can the guys get-the boss flipped for christs sake. He sat in court and said I ordered him to kill someone ...blah blah.
The colombos you dont ever even hear about.
The Lucchese created their own demise when they flipped out on their own men and began murking people for no apparent reason. Gaspipe said he was a mafia prince during his years and he obviously was very well connected-he was believed to be the biggest dope dealer on the east coast. Apparently Sammy the bull has gone ape shit-and lost all his marbles and teeth.
I am not dogging the mafia by posting this-topic-IF their were more italians in NYC and IF italians werent so soft due to many moving up the social ladder--and becoming "white" then theyd be the powerhouse theyve always been. I mean they are at a smidget of what they were in the 80s and their crimes rival any other ethnic group to this day! 2 billion dollar sports gambling ring? I mean dam-on gambling at that-not even dope.
But I dont know-even in italy theirs been 1000 or so pentito. Yet before 1983 their had been zero-
Seems like some guys have a hard time leaving the life--Greg Scarpas son tried killing himself in the pen and Mikey Scars also tried committing suicide -also Craig Depalma essentially offed himself. So yea that oath does carry weight till the end.

[thewestside]

You might be like a lot of people who reads the occasional article on the mob, meanwhile constantly comparing them today to their peak decades ago, and so it's inevitable but you'd think it's all but over.

Like I've said before, you begin to get a little different picture once you follow the indictments on a consistent basis. If I just read articles here and there, I would probably believe the mob died back in the 1990's. And yet, from 2000 to the present, there is a list of cases as long as your arm involving the mob in New York. They're not what they were even 20 years ago but they're still alive and kicking.

[mayugastank]

According to the latest Gang Land News article by Jerry Capeci, it looks like Captain Vincent "Vinny TV" Badalamenti has been named the new Acting or Street Boss of the Bonanno family. Recently he was serving as Acting Consigliere. His club was raided by the DEA last December.

THEY STILL HAVE CLUBS?I thought they disbanded all of them.

[thewestside]

According to the latest Gang Land News article by Jerry Capeci, it looks like Captain Vincent "Vinny TV" Badalamenti has been named the new Acting or Street Boss of the Bonanno family. Recently he was serving as Acting Consigliere. His club was raided by the DEA last December.

THEY STILL HAVE CLUBS?I thought they disbanded all of them.

There are still plenty of mob social clubs. Massino simply closed down most of the Bonanno ones while he was boss, though some were allowed to remain for one reason or another. The difference today is, the social clubs are much more about general social interaction than discussing actual mob business. Most mob guys have learned a mob social club is the last place they want to talk about something incriminating.