Jehovah's Witnesses

Religion is probably the biggest divider in world history, but for those that believe in God it is central to our existence. Share your views.
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Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby alexalonso » January 19th, 2004, 9:04 pm

I notice that the Jehovah's Witneses were associated as an occult on one of the other threads, but I would disagree with that.

I think that their philosphy is somewhat strict, in that they try to be consistent with scriptural principals, and today's open society goes against rigid rules.

But if you believe in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, I think they are on point with what is written more so than any of Christian religions out there.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby G bka C.rum » January 19th, 2004, 9:59 pm

I see you got a couple religious thoughts on your mind lonzo with the Jehovahs I agree some of their interpretations are close but no cigar. The site I posted is an Israelite site they got a church in Inglewood. But they totally smash all christian doctrine and expose it all to be a lie the way it's being taught you brothas should check it. Out anyone on here from N.Y im sure has definately heard of them.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby Anonymous20 » January 20th, 2004, 7:28 am

Yeah, I wrote that. I remember reading a lot about the founder of Jehovah's Witness and The Watchtower Society, Charles Taze Russell. He was supposedly a Mason, another cult which has a lot of dark stuff going on in its shadows. If you do the research on it you'll find it out. You should check that out coz it goes deeper than what it seems on first impression.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthen ... pagan.html
http://www.cephasministry.com/jw_russell_templar.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/russ3.html (pics of his tomb)

Just a few websites out of many I've found on this subject.
*It's a lot about symbols. Symbols which mean nothing to somebody normal; but symbols which mean a lot to the person who knows what they mean. You can say it's similar to symbols used in street gangs. You know them when you're in the game; but for someone who's not, they don't really know how to distinguish one from the other you know?

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby wcrockets » January 20th, 2004, 12:04 pm

Definitely a cult based on salvation by works. They don't believe in the Trinity. Many of them live their lives in fear that they haven't done enough "good works" to enter heaven.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby BIG DUSTY LOCO » January 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

man, these people crack me up. I've slammed doors on JW's like Craig did in "Friday"...LOL. I understand the need for enlightenment, but it's a little much for my taste.

If people first tried to understand themselves, and treated their bodies like "temples of the soul"...they can get to the next level of their development.

I don't have time to waste worrying about the after-life. A JW once asked me that question, I couldn't stop laughing at her. I make my mark as a man while I have breath in me. To me my salvation is my family, they come first before me and that's that. I do believe in God, and I'll always do an occasional prayer to the man upstairs for keeping those bullets away from me during my younger days. But as for me holding another man as somebody who has a closer rapport to God that I could, nah too many molestors, embezzelers, and janky people at church. I was brought up Catholic, but I don't even go to church except for Weddings, Funerals, Baptisms. I just read the book every now and then to try and research. I peep books about all other religions too, but just browsed em.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby Anonymous20 » January 20th, 2004, 1:48 pm

Everything you said is the same way I think big dusty loco. I was brought up catholic too, being french canadian and I only go to church every now and then. I mainly read the bible on my own and research about other religions as well. I only posted this up to share what I had found about Jehovah's Witnesses out of many other religions I had researched in the past out of interest. Even though there may be some things that I dislike about my own religion though, I still stick to it since it's part of my culture. Although that doesn't make me unable to question many things in it which I suggest everyone to do too..

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby BANDIT » January 27th, 2004, 9:07 am

LOL....... HAHAHA MY MOTHERS AND OLDER BROTHER IS A JEHOVA WITNESS I BASICLY GREW UP ON THAT SHIT AND LOOK AT ME KNOW HAHHAH HANDLE IT !!! THEY DO TRIPP ME OUT FUCC IT YOU KNOW EVERY ONE THOSE THERE THANG ILL DO MINES FIRST THINGS FIRST ITS CRAZY CAUSE I WAS RAISED WITH MY POPS A CATHOLIC THAT WAS A FORMER MEMBER FROM TEMPLE ST HE DOESN'T CLAIM IT ANY MORE OR KICK IT FOR HIS PERSONAL REASONS HES ALREADY BURNED OUT AND HE HIS MEXICAN WITH PINOY PRIDE ALL MY 3 STEP BROS ARE PINOYS AND STEP MOM HANDLE IT TAKE IT TO ITS FULL EXTENT QUE NO BUT I KNOW WHATS UP WITH CATHOLICS AND JWS SO I KNOW WHATS CRACKALAKING ON BOTH SIDES!! STILL WS MID CITY 13 GANG SHAW BOYS http://www.TheKingdomOfMidCity.com -- CHECK IT OUT OUR NEW SITE MR BANDIT

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby worldwide » January 31st, 2004, 4:46 am

one thing i ask a JW is, what advent of jehova did they witness!!!
catholic worship the virgin mary but if you read the bible JESUS was not her only child.
ISERIALITE'S do bang on the chistian doctrine but they preach about white man and the ongoing saga of how they opress us, my uncle is one of them.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby CrackerJack72 » March 12th, 2004, 10:28 am

Yes - Jevhovah's witnesses are very strict, my sister was one. Probably still is.
Her parents disallowed me from seeing her when we were just kids because I said penis... they thought I was a bad influence so they never let me see her. I still haven't seen her. Ain't that a bitch:(

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby TheReal » August 3rd, 2004, 1:45 pm

alonso wrote:I notice that the Jehovah's Witneses were associated as an occult on one of the other threads, but I would disagree with that.

I think that their philosphy is somewhat strict, in that they try to be consistent with scriptural principals, and today's open society goes against rigid rules.

But if you believe in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, I think they are on point with what is written more so than any of Christian religions out there.


*One of the reasons why they are referred to as a cult, within christian orthodox circles, is because they deny the essentials of the christian faith, one of them being the deity of Christ, amongst other things...

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby alexalonso » August 3rd, 2004, 3:07 pm

TheReal wrote:
alonso wrote:I notice that the Jehovah's Witneses were associated as an occult on one of the other threads, but I would disagree with that.

I think that their philosphy is somewhat strict, in that they try to be consistent with scriptural principals, and today's open society goes against rigid rules.

But if you believe in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, I think they are on point with what is written more so than any of Christian religions out there.


*One of the reasons why they are referred to as a cult, within christian orthodox circles, is because they deny the essentials of the christian faith, one of them being the deity of Christ, amongst other things...


They believe that Christ is the son of God, and not God Almighty. That is basic and in my view and scriptural. They reject the trinity, that being that God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy spirit is the same person. Trinity is a word that never appears in the Bible and a concept started over 325 years after Jesus died and ascended to heaven. No one in the Bible ever preached, taught, or spread information on a trinity therefore I reject it along with many other Chrinstians and non-christians. It is a human philosphy that I can't get with.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby TheReal » August 4th, 2004, 6:16 am

alonso wrote:
TheReal wrote:
alonso wrote:I notice that the Jehovah's Witneses were associated as an occult on one of the other threads, but I would disagree with that.

I think that their philosphy is somewhat strict, in that they try to be consistent with scriptural principals, and today's open society goes against rigid rules.

But if you believe in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, I think they are on point with what is written more so than any of Christian religions out there.


*One of the reasons why they are referred to as a cult, within christian orthodox circles, is because they deny the essentials of the christian faith, one of them being the deity of Christ, amongst other things...


They believe that Christ is the son of God, and not God Almighty. That is basic and in my view and scriptural. They reject the trinity, that being that God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy spirit is the same person. Trinity is a word that never appears in the Bible and a concept started over 325 years after Jesus died and ascended to heaven. No one in the Bible ever preached, taught, or spread information on a trinity therefore I reject it along with many other Chrinstians and non-christians. It is a human philosphy that I can't get with.


*The concept of the trinity, is the belief that there is one God, manifested in three persons, co-equal and coeternal. From a mathematics perspective, it follows 1X1X1=1.

In the book of John chapter 1, it states that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It further goes on to say, "all things were made by him (Word), and without him, was not anything made that was made." In verse 14 of John 1 it say's, "And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us." Who was made flesh? The word, who was "in the beginning...with God", and who "was God."

Also, in II Timothy 3:16 (it could be I Timothy, now that I think about it), it says that "God was manifested in the flesh..." Jesus told the Jews in John chapter 8, that their forefather Abraham was happy to see his day, whereas the jews began to lambaste him, because he was not even 50 years old, yet he claims that Abraham has seen his "day", to where Jesus responded by saying "Before Abraham was, I AM." After stating this, the jews became angered and accused him of blasphemous teachings! Why? Because they said, him being a man, "maketh himself God."

Do you remember in the book of Genesis, when God in the form of man (theophany) along with two angels, approached Abraham on the fields of Mamre, and told him about Sarah, in her old age, being able to produce and have a child-which will be the promised "seed." I'm sure that was taken as "good news." (God also told Abraham that he was going to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy that city, whereas Abraham bargained with God, in order to spare his nephew Lot.) So what's my point in bringing this up? Well, when Jesus told the Jews that Abraham saw his day, and rejoiced in it, I felt that he (Jesus) may have been referring to this particular encounter on the fields of Mamre, whereas some believe Jesus was referring to when Abraham met a preincarnate Christ (theophany), in the form of a king priest called Melchizedek. Still others believe it was in a messianic vision that Abraham had, right before he was going to sacrifice Isaac upon the altar: this is definitely for another discussion!

Also in the book of Genesis, when Moses spake to the burning bush, where God told Moses to go into Egypt and demand from Pharoah that the children of Israel be released, he (Moses) had asked God, "whom shall I say sent me?"; whereupon God replied, "Say that I AM, THAT I AM SENT YOU." This also parallels the portion of scripture in the new testament where Jesus told those jews "Before Abraham was, I AM", which prompted the jews into wanting to stone Jesus, because as a man, he placed himself on the level of God, and being God-whereas under jewish law, that was considered an immediate death sentence.

Lastly, remember during the Last Supper, where Phillip (one of Jesus' apostles) had asked Jesus to "Show us the Father, for it will then satisfy our curiosity!" (In the King James Version, it says, "Show us the Father, for it will sufficeth us;" same difference.) What was Jesus' response? Well I'll tell you, his response was: "Have I been so long time with you Phillip, that thou hast not known me? He that hath seen me, hath seen the Father. So how can thou then sayest 'Show us the father.' Don't you know that I am in the Father, and the Father in me."

One thing I know, when it comes to a father and son situation, is-that a father can be in the son, but there's no way that the son can be in the father, for the father imparts his genetic and hereditary material in the son, and not in reverse-unless they are one and the same. But for Jesus to claim that he's in the Father, and the Father's in him, displays and equality there, that no other prophet of God on earth, has ever claimed.

I mean, think about it, for a man to claim that "I am the way, the truth and the light, and no one comes to God but through me," or says that he's "The Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending (This parallels a scripture in Isaiah chapter 44, or 45, where God says of himself, that he's "the first and last, the beginning and the ending")"-he either believes he's God; a type of god; divine, but quite not god; a damn fool; or who he was, what he said he was, and what scripture declare him to be...

Lastly, as far as the trinity being established and created in 325, during the council of Nicea:

From my research, the doctrine of the trinity was codified, as opposed to being established. You see, the word trinity, true enough, isn't found in the bible, but neither is the word "rapture", yet folks utilize that term throughout christendom, the same with the word "soul sleep" (a belief I don't hold), etc.-but it doesn't mean that the principle behind that word, is false. This council of Nicea was only held to quench and put out, primarily, the arian heresy that had crept into the church, which held the belief that Jesus Christ was a created being, thus not God Almighty. Whereas the council members held this meeting to solidify the doctrine that had been taught throughout the chrisian world since the first century, and believed by early believers, that Jesus Christ was God in human form, and that the term Son of God denoted the jewish expression, being after the order of God, therefore God (I threw this one in here myself...).

You know, I can go further with this, and discuss other biblical passages, as well as delve further into history, establishing fully my beliefs on this matter, but I will end it here by saying that 1) I don't belong to a church, neither do I claim a particular religion, or denomination-ANYMORE; 2) don't come at me with Islam, or any other belief system, and attempt to convert me (I respect your beliefs, but I am in no need, neither am I searching, for a "higher revelation," so don't come at the kid with anything, because I don't want what you have); 3) I believe what I believe, but do realize that I'm not a good example of what a believer in Christ ought to be, because I don't believe in turning the other cheek, and I do believe that violence is essential in certain situations, in order to bring peace, and if it doesn't bring peace, then at least you make your last stand with dignity and honor. Peace...

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby wcrockets » August 9th, 2004, 9:16 am

Yes very good The Real. The fact the the word Trinity is not found in the Bible is not the basis for why we believe in the doctrine of one God in three Persons. We believe in the doctrine because it is in the Bible (Matthew 28:19, etc), but we only call the doctrine the "Trinity" as a description. This is a very important point--I can go the rest of my Christian life and never use the word "Trinity," but I will always believe in One God as three Person because it is scriptural. The Jehovah's Witnesses also use terms to describe their doctrines, like "Theocracy," which is not in the Bible, but it simply means that God Rules, which doctrine is found in the Bible. They got you all twisted up over a silly view of the word Trinity without realizing that if they apply their same rule to themselves, then they have no doctrines in the Bible either. IT is like the word "Rapture," which is not found in the Bible, but some day, Jesus will return and take his people out of the earth, although the very word "Rapture" is not in the Bible, while the doctrine is.

I remember the first time a Jehovah's Witness pulled that on me, I went racing through my Bible looking for the word Trinity and it was not there. It was only after study that I realized that they had tricked me with a question that would have destroyed the foundation of their faith had I used it on them first. In either case it is not a logically valid arguement, since the words we use to describe things is not how we determine its scriptural basis. It is only by going through Scripture that we find whether something is true or false.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby Kemosave » August 11th, 2004, 11:11 am


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Unread postby Kemosave » August 2nd, 2005, 12:52 pm

The Jehovah's Witnesses was begun by Charles Taze Russell in 1872. He was born on February 16, 1852, the son of Joseph L. and Anna Eliza Russell. He had great difficulty in dealing with the doctrine of eternal hell fire and in his studies came to deny not only eternal punishment, but also the Trinity, and the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. When Russell was 18, he organized a Bible class in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In 1879 he sought to popularize his aberrant ideas on doctrine. He co-published The Herald of the Morning magazine with its founder, N. H. Barbour and by 1884 Russell controlled the publication and renamed it The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, and founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (now known as the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society). The first edition of The Watchtower magazine was only 6,000 copies each month. Today the Witnesses' publishing complex in Brooklyn, New York, churns out 100,000 books and 800,000 copies of its two magazines--daily!

Russell claimed that the Bible could be only understood according to his interpretations. A dangerous arrangement since he controlled what was written in the Watchtower magazine. This kind of assertion is typical among leaders of cult religions.

After the death of Russell on Oct. 31, 1916, a Missouri lawyer named Joseph Franklin Rutherford took over the presidency of the Watch Tower Society which was known then as the International Bible Students Association. In 1931 he changed the name of the organization to "The Jehovah's Witnesses."

After Rutherford's death, Nathan Knorr took over. After Knorr, Frederick William Franz became president.

The Society was led by Mr. Henschel who died in 2003. The group has over 4 million members world wide. The Watchtower Society statistics indicate that 740 house calls are required to recruit each of the nearly 200,000 new members who join every year.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have several ‘book studies' each week. The members are not required to attend, but there is a level of expectation that gently urges converts to participate. It is during these ‘book studies' that the Jehovah's Witness is constantly exposed to counter Christian teachings. The average Jehovah's Witness, with his constant Watchtower indoctrination, could easily pummel the average Christian when it comes to defending his beliefs.

The Jehovah's Witnesses vehemently portray the doctrine of the Trinity as pagan in origin and that Christendom, as a whole, has bought the lie of the devil. Along with denying the Trinity is an equally strong denial of the deity of Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, the belief in hell, and eternal conscious punishment in hell.

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

1. Taking verses out of their immediate context.
2. Refusing to read verses in the entire biblical context.
3. Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
4. Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
5. Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
6. Changing the meanings of words.
7. Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
8. Adding to the Word of God.

Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?

The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door to door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim). They are strongly encouraged to have friends and acquaintances that are only JW’s, thereby keeping outside examination to a minimum. They are told to shun those who leave their group, that way, there is no way to see why someone has left and no way to find out that they are in error from those who have found the truth in Christ. They are conditioned to shy away from any real biblically knowledgeable person. An example of this is frequently found on the Internet. I was once banned from a Jehovah's Witness chat room after I not only answered their objections to the Trinity and deity of Christ, but challenged them in return. Subsequently, my name was passed around to all other Jehovah's Witness rooms where I was banned from them as well. This is a frequent occurrence on the Internet where the Jehovah's Witnesses are alive and well. It is obvious that critical examination of their doctrines is not encouraged by the Watchtower Organization.

The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from looking into Jehovah's Witness history or old Watchtower literature which is replete with contradictions, altered doctrines, and false prophecies. Instead, they are indoctrinated repeatedly against basic Christian doctrines (Trinity, deity of Christ, etc) and into the notion that they alone are the true servants of God and that all others are either in "Christendom" or simply unbelievers.

Primarily, the Jehovah's Witness organization is a mind control organization that uses its people to pass out literature and send in "donations" to the headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587.

The Watchtower organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a non-Christian organization that uses its people to promulgate false doctrines, sell a multitudinous amount of literature, and expand its grip into the lives of its members and their families.

It is a non-Christian cult.

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Unread postby ratt » August 3rd, 2005, 9:22 am

jehovah's witnesses are known for their zealous and relentless preaching. the first century christians were also known for their zealous and relentless preaching.

jesus did not leave his followers without a dependable test whereby profession of christianity could be determined to be true or false. jesus expressed this at john 13:35 " by this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves".

going into the battlefield and killing another church member just because they happen to be of a diffrent nationality does not meet the test.
that is not a demonstration of love among themselves. which denominations have been and are guilty of such conduct? except for JW all of them. they fail to measure up to the standards set by christ. and organizations that condone such lack of love do not represent the god of peace.

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Unread postby ratt » August 3rd, 2005, 1:29 pm

think about this:
JW
is the only christian sect that worship the ONLY true god JEHOVAH, while the others worship trinity.

christendom is plauged with controversies and irreprehensible conduct.

JW
is well known for their strict adherents to bible principles, neutrality in war and politics. they are no part of the world therefore the world hates them.

in GOD's eyes all the denominations of christendom are major cults.
none of them, not even one of them have a personal relationship with the one GOD JEHOVAH.

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Unread postby Kemosave » August 3rd, 2005, 2:31 pm

Jehovah’s Witnesses faithfully go door-to-door preaching the "Kingdom of God" that is taught them via the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They are usually quite polite and sincere in their efforts of communicating "Jehovah’s Good News." As always, they carry with them several books and magazines, some of which are the New World Translation (their Bible which has been altered in many places), the Awake Magazine, and, of course, the ubiquitous Watchtower Magazine.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses receive their direction from The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. This organization claims to be the channel of communication from God to his people, that it represents Jesus on earth, and that you cannot find Scriptural guidance outside of it as an organization. Consider the following quotes:

"It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85."
Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.

"We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization." The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.

Obviously, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society assumes a great deal, including being God’s "visible theocratic organization" and the ‘faithful and discreet slave" teaching true Christian doctrine. The only problem is that the Watchtower brand of doctrine is not biblical doctrine. It is heavily filtered doctrine through Watchtower interpretations combined with selective questions and scripture quotes.

Of course, the Jehovah’s Witnesses will strongly disagree with this statement. They say that they read and study their Bibles and only use the Watchtower literature as a guide to understanding God’s word. But it is this very admission which condemns them because their doctrines are not found in the Bible. The proof is found, believe it or not, in the Watchtower’s own writings. Consider this quote from The Watchtower Magazine, August 15, 1981 that says:

"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981.

Did you get that? If you read the Bible by itself, you will become a Trinitarian because that is exactly what the Watchtower is referring to here when it says "apostate doctrines." In other words, if you read the Bible alone, you will not arrive at Watchtower doctrines. This is an amazing admission by the Watchtower organization. It is clear, Jehovah's Witnesses do not get their teachings from the Bible, but from the Watchtower literature.

Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses are Really Watchtowerites

The average Kingdom Hall (Jehovah's Witness church) has "Book" studies several times a week. It is in these meetings that the Jehovah's Witness gets new Watchtower publications, studies with the help of the Watchtower aids, and discusses doctrines in ‘Bible studies." This is how they are indoctrinated. Whether or not a Jehovah's Witness likes or dislikes what is being taught is not the issue. Rather, the Jehovah's Witness is supposed to accept and believe what is taught via the Watchtower Literature and is discouraged from independent thinking. Another quote:

"We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste...We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification…" The Watchtower, February 1, 1952, pp. 79-80.

This quote clearly shows that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the Jehovah's Witness' teacher and those who follow its teachings are Watchtowerites. That is, they are students of the Watchtower which is why, basically, all Jehovah's Witnesses all believe the very same thing. Of course, they will say that this is unity and not confusion as is found in Christendom’s denominations. But precise unity in beliefs among a people is a sign not of freedom, but of control.

Within Christianity’s denominations are the core beliefs that unite Christians all over the world. We are allowed differences of opinions on non-essential doctrines (Rom. 14:1-7). Not so with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are all taught the same doctrine from the same publications. They each give identical Watchtower responses to questions and challenges, and all present the identical claims of "The Kingdom of God," "the Errors of the Trinity," the "Coming Armageddon," etc. Essentially, if you’ve spoken to one Jehovah's Witness, you’ve spoken to them all.

If you want to learn what the average Jehovah's Witnesses believes, you don’t read the Bible, you read the Watchtower Magazine. This is because the Watchtower is the source of their theological beliefs, not the Bible. If you want to quickly learn what the Watchtower teaches, spend an hour with any Jehovah's Witness. The Jehovah's Witness is, quite plainly, a Watchtowerite.

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Unread postby Kemosave » August 3rd, 2005, 2:36 pm

False Prophecies of the Jehovah's Witnesses

The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.

If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's word, then what they say should prove to be true, especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, "Those are taken out of context," or "They didn't claim to be the prophet of God," or "The light is getting brighter and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now," etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.

Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to.

Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it." The Watchtower, 4/1/72, p. 197. (See Deut. 18:21)

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, page 621.

1899 "...the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." The Time Is at Hand, page 101 (1908 edition).

1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." The Time Is at Hand, page ii, (forward).

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.

1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.

1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4/1/23.

1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.

1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 page 262.

1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, page 232.

1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.

1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.

1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.

1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.

A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also?

A true prophet of God won't err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah's Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet.

Jesus warned us by saying, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect -- if that were possible" (Matt. 24:24).

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Unread postby ratt » August 3rd, 2005, 9:13 pm

it seems as though you are trying to down play the satanic crimes of christendom as if that were possible by attacking GOD'S witnesses. i respect the witnesses because although they were wrong about certain predictions, just like the first century christians were, they were humble enough to adapt to new truths as world events unfolded. and the light gets brighter and brighter as jehovah's day draws near.

unlike christendom who refuses to repent of their crimes that reaches high up to heaven.- revelations 18:5.

do you expect the holy spirit to dwell with homosexuals and pedaphile preist? many people of christendom do. why? because they neither know god or the bible.
JW organization have not committed crimes, they are blameless and upright.

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Unread postby Kemosave » August 5th, 2005, 12:46 pm

ratt: it seems as though you are trying to down play the satanic crimes of christendom as if that were possible by attacking GOD'S witnesses. i respect the witnesses because although they were wrong about certain predictions, just like the first century christians were, they were humble enough to adapt to new truths as world events unfolded. and the light gets brighter and brighter as jehovah's day draws near.

Kemo: I am stating the facts ratt and showing that the theology you espouse is the cult of Jehovah Witness theology which is false. I am not trying in any way to hurt you and I understand it is difficult to face the truth that you are defending a false cultic belief system that is in error.
Now, you are not off the hook in any way with your ad hominem attack on me (because you cannot defend what cannot be defended which is the lie of JW when confronted with a true and real scholarly defense) so I ask you to please itemize a list of evidences regarding your false assertion of “the satanic crimes of Christendom” so that we can point-by-point qualify it in the light of truth, history, and scholarly Biblical revelation. I’ll ask you to place that in a different thread though as this thread is about the JW.

They were very wrong about many predictions (i.e. false witnesses) just as their theology is false. Please qualify exactly what you mean by your assertion regarding first century Christians so that it may be qualified. Again this appears to be like so many of your other false assertions, a twisted presentation of the truth. So please do fully explain and bring all of your evidences for qualification.

And as already has been stated, changing, perverting, adding to scripture is completely unscriptural as the Jehovah Witnesses have done. The only thing that gets brighter and brighter in this discussion is the Bible: certainly not the cultic theology of JW. Now support your many false assertions with evidence so they can be qualified.

ratt: unlike christendom who refuses to repent of their crimes that reaches high up to heaven.- revelations 18:5.

Kemo: Let’s put it in perspective for you ratt to help you see past the perspective you have adopted. This message is an assurance to Christians and intended for those Christians whom are still in a future Babylon. Therefore the accurate identification of Babylon becomes important. Certainly it is not Christian assemblies not in Babylon teaching sound doctrine. Your accusation against these Christian assemblies is a false one.

Those that are resolved to partake with wicked men in their sins (such as cults who reject sound biblical doctrine and continue refusing the truth and God’s grace for example) are judged as such in verse 5. I have heard various arguments attempting to define Mystery Babylon from Rome, to the world's religions, to America (from the disenfranchised), etc.. and it is not surprising there is controversy as the author speaks of the future. In hindsight there would be no mystery. I think the often overused and oversimplified occam's razor could be appealed to here. Babylon is currently being rebuilt ratt. This is quite prophetic and historic since it has been desolate since before 141 BC! There is no reason to suggest the future Babylon is not well.. the future Babylon. No metaphors needed.

ratt: do you expect the holy spirit to dwell with homosexuals and pedaphile preist? many people of christendom do. why? because they neither know god or the bible. JW organization have not committed crimes, they are blameless and upright.

Kemo: The Lord is blameless and upright. The Bible says that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” JW members are sinners who prefer their own rightousness to God's through Christ as the Bible teaches.

It is important to note that the Jehovah's Witness organization claims to be the only true Christian group in the entire world. It says that all other churches, whether Catholic or Protestant, teach error and that anyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness will be destroyed by God. However, the facts show that this group is a deceptive sect denying the central teachings of the Bible.

Of course the Bible and authentic Christians do not agree with the horrendous sins you have falsely attempted to project because of your apostate theology ratt. You should be ashamed for trying to project the theology of apostate assemblies onto authentic ones. It just shows me that you cannot tell the difference because you are so blinded by JW theology which claims all other churches and all people outside of JW will be destroyed by God.

One thing that apostate organizations that endorse homosexual preachers and protect peds have in common with your theology ratt is that both misrepresent scripture. And how upright can a cult be that is shown time and time to possess a false theology ratt? That's called lying. Now, I have a few questions for you.

Please don’t forget to answer all other previous requests in addition to these:

1. The Watchtower organization has claimed to be the prophet of God (The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197) yet it has made numerous false prophecies. The excuse given for their false prophecies has been to quote Proverbs 4:18 which says, "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." Whether or not the "light gets brighter" or not does not change the fact that the Watchtower made false prophecies. The Bible says in Deut. 18:20-22, "‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak..." If the NWT condemns false prophesying and states that it is proof that God is not speaking through that prophet, then doesn’t this prove that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is not speaking for God?

2. Why does the New World Translation insert the word Jehovah in the New Testament when there are absolutely no Greek manuscripts that have it in there? Why change the Bible to fit JW false theology?

3. In the book, "Salvation" by J. F. Rutherford, 1939, p. 311, (a Watchtower Publication) it says, "At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929, there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth-Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean "House of the Princes"; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth-Sarim is vested in the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on earth [italic added]. . . . while the unbelievers have mocked concerning it and spoken contemptuously of it, yet it stands there as a testimony to Jehovah’s name; and if and when the princes do return and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth-Sarim." This place was sold in 1942 after Rutherford’s death. Therefore, it appears that the faithful were misled since the house was to "be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes." Is this really a testimony to Jehovah’s name as it said? How can it be if they sold the house?

4. The Watchtower organization states that Jesus died on a stake, not a cross. The typical Watchtower representation of this is with Jesus on a single vertical stake, hands over his head with a single nail in his wrists. If Jesus were crucified on a cross, then two nails would be necessary, one in each hand. How then does the Watchtower organization handle the verse in the Bible that states that Jesus had nails (plural) in his hands: "Consequently the other disciples would say to him: "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them: "unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe" (John 20:25, NWT). Jesus had one nail in each hand. This is made clear by the use of the word ‘nails’ not ‘nail.’ Jesus must have been crucified on a cross, and not a stake as the Watchtower organization teaches. Why is it, then, that the Watchtower teaches something that is so clearly unbiblical?

5. The Watchtower organization states that through good works and sincere effort only 144,000 elite JW’s will go to heaven. The 144,000 are mentioned in two chapters in the Bible: Revelation 7 & 14. By looking at the verses it is obvious that the 144,000 are literal Jews of the ancient tribes with no Gentiles among them (7:4-8). They are all males (14:4) and virgins (14:4). If the JW states that the usage of Jewish male virgins is figurative, what gives them the right to state that number of 144,000 is literal?

ratt: the pope and his followers was freinds with hitler and supported the third reich in their rise to power. nazi soldiers would go to catholic church and confess their sins to a preist after slaughtering countless jews. digusting!

Kemo: Yes it is disgusting. So what has this to do with authentic Christians like myself who are not Catholics and feel the same way you do about that and in no way support the Catholic Church?
ratt: catholics are also responsible for the brutal slavery of black people in america and abroad. many klansmans are catholics.
Kemo: Fascinating. Please support your assertions with evidence so that I may review it.

ratt: how could the GOD of love and peace be represented by a religion that has a track record of hate and war? they should be charged and convicted of crimes against humanity.

Kemo: Take WWII for example; how could JW refuse to participate in ending the systematic mass murder of millions and millions and millions of innocents from murdering evil tyrants who cared nothing for humanity, democractic principles and freedom, liberty, and justice (even if applied imperfectly in this present age) or the Bible simply because their theology is that "all governments are of satan." JW refused to fight preferring to sit on their false theology while millions and millions and millions went to the ovens refusing to lift a finger to fight while so many others fought and died to stop it. Perhaps those JW were the real criminals. But let’s say that you even might come up with an acceptable excuse to that question ratt, the rest of your post is ignorant.

Again, It is important to note that the Jehovah's Witness organization claims to be the only true Christian group in the entire world. It says that all other churches, whether Catholic or Protestant, teach error and that anyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness will be destroyed by God.

So when you have that kind of a theology it is no problem to make blanket false accusations against everyone outside of JW that ever lived as deserving of “crimes against humanity” now does it? But that is so wrong ratt. Can't you see how evil that position is?

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Unread postby Kemosave » August 5th, 2005, 1:13 pm

The very people that "God so loved that he sent his only begotten son [not an archangel ratt] that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

God loves people ratt. JW theology is so wicked in its desire to misintrepet scripture to damn humans seeing everyone outside the cult of JW as being destroyed by God. And that is a complete lie. Another cult lie from yet another unhappy false prophet.

God does not condition our salvation on how many visits we have made, how many books we have distributed, or on our ability to be worthy, but on the Savior's ability to save. Those of us who have trusted in Christ have received everlasting life. We testify to you that we have been born again and our spiritual lives have started. God's solution works ratt!

Why not shift your faith ratt from a false cult theology that misinterprets scripture to damn everyone outside of JW and put it in Jesus Christ as the Bible teaches. Trust Him to save you. If you do, you too will receive everlasting life. You will be born again and have a place in God's kingdom and won't have to go around telling all us saved Christians how we are going to hell because we don't believe the false twisted theology of your cult.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"
(John 3:17).

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Let God's word convince you to quit trusting in what you have done or hope to do, and trust in Christ. The Bible does not admit a second chance after the resurrection. "…he that believeth not is condemned already." (See also Luke 20:35-36.)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Only by trusting Christ to save us can we receive God's gift of salvation and be born again.

Leave the cult ratt.

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Unread postby ratt » August 5th, 2005, 3:03 pm

do you own a bible? if you do please[b] read the scriptures [/b]cited here. it will set matters straight. philippians 2:15,3:6; gen.25:27; luke 1:6; job 1:1; 1thess. 5:23. like i said, jehovah's people are blameless.now to itemize all the crimes committed by christendom would take years to publish and would fill every shelf in the library with no room to spare. therefore, i challenge you to name one crime they haven't committed.

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Unread postby TarHeelRED » August 5th, 2005, 8:23 pm

Dang, Ratt, I didn't know u were a Jehova's Witness. U mean 2 tell me these folk in the world who have received Jesus as LORD and Saviour, only 144,00 is going 2 heaven? LOL. Tell me which number are u? LOL. Although faith is dead without works(James 2:17),man can never perform deeds 2 get them into heaven. It doesn't matter how righteous a man's deeds r.Especially when folk(Jehovah Witnessess) are going around dispersing spurious doctrines. Heaven is mammoth enough 2 accomodate more than 144,000 folk. U do know the 144,000 are from the tribes of Israel. Which tribe are u a scion from? LOL!!

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Unread postby ratt » August 6th, 2005, 5:20 pm

i am not of that number nor am i a member of jehovah's witnesses. secondly, it is jehovah the creator who chooses who will become kings and preist in the kingdom of the heavens and how many people he sees fit to accomplish his mission, namely paradise return. each individual was bought by god using the value of christ ransom sacrafice .(1 cor.7:23.) how many did he choose to buy? he himself explains at rev.14:1-3 .

there are many invited but few are chosen- matthew 22:14. they will be co-rulers with christ in heaven for 1,000 years. who will this heavenly government govern? the meek who will inherit the earth (psalm 37:11) a undetermined number, a great crowd of jehovah's people who will survive the great tribulation. (rev. 7:9-14). these will live forever in paradise on earth, GOD's original purpose for mankind. no more death and sorrow the former system of things will have passed away.( rev.12:3,4). now that's good news!

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Unread postby ratt » August 9th, 2005, 12:47 am

JEHOVAH continues to slience all critics

TmaaN

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

Unread postby TmaaN » August 9th, 2005, 6:53 am

alonso wrote:I notice that the Jehovah's Witneses were associated as an occult on one of the other threads, but I would disagree with that.

I think that their philosphy is somewhat strict, in that they try to be consistent with scriptural principals, and today's open society goes against rigid rules.

But if you believe in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, I think they are on point with what is written more so than any of Christian religions out there.


If you only knew...*deception is a mother......aint it?!*

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Unread postby Mraka » August 12th, 2005, 8:51 am

will I see a happy

jeehowaas Vitneese one day?

I know to guys that where living under a harsh regiment at home.
Man, they don`t want that kind of living for their enemys.

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Unread postby kverdugazo » September 1st, 2005, 12:58 pm

Jevovha= Jesus Christ of the Old Testament
JW's don't believe that but oh well... they are pretty good people for the most part... I don't think that it's cool tho' that they try to sell you magazines and their "bible". I don't think they're very "on point", like Alonso said, with their doctrine either. They misinterpret most scriptures from what I've noticed... besides that their books and magazines are weird and have weird pictures because of their weird interpretations of some scriptures in the bible. We lived next door to a JW family and they wouldn't let their daughter play with my lil sis because they found out that we were "mormons" haha I don't think that was very Christlike. A lot of people get mormons and Jw's confused but there's really nothing similar about the 2 religions.

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Unread postby Wisdom » September 5th, 2005, 2:51 am

keverdugo wrote:Jevovha= Jesus Christ of the Old Testament
JW's don't believe that but oh well... they are pretty good people for the most part... I don't think that it's cool tho' that they try to sell you magazines and their "bible". I don't think they're very "on point", like Alonso said, with their doctrine either. They misinterpret most scriptures from what I've noticed... besides that their books and magazines are weird and have weird pictures because of their weird interpretations of some scriptures in the bible. We lived next door to a JW family and they wouldn't let their daughter play with my lil sis because they found out that we were "mormons" haha I don't think that was very Christlike. A lot of people get mormons and Jw's confused but there's really nothing similar about the 2 religions.


did you read the link above about how mormons and JW are the same?

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Unread postby kverdugazo » September 5th, 2005, 11:40 am

Wisdom wrote:
keverdugo wrote:Jevovha= Jesus Christ of the Old Testament
JW's don't believe that but oh well... they are pretty good people for the most part... I don't think that it's cool tho' that they try to sell you magazines and their "bible". I don't think they're very "on point", like Alonso said, with their doctrine either. They misinterpret most scriptures from what I've noticed... besides that their books and magazines are weird and have weird pictures because of their weird interpretations of some scriptures in the bible. We lived next door to a JW family and they wouldn't let their daughter play with my lil sis because they found out that we were "mormons" haha I don't think that was very Christlike. A lot of people get mormons and Jw's confused but there's really nothing similar about the 2 religions.


did you read the link above about how mormons and JW are the same?


Nope... I didn't see any link above saying that...and besides that, the doctrine between the 2 religions is not even close. Anyone that says that or even thinks that is mistaken and obviously never really studied the 2 religions. There's really no similarities between the 2 besides that they're not what most people consider "mainstream" Christian churches. I don't know if JW's consider themselves Christians but I know "Mormon's" do and anyone that thinks differentely just look at the name of the church... The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints. "Mormon" is actually a nickname that people gave the church almost 200 years ago.

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Unread postby worldwide » September 22nd, 2005, 1:53 pm

MAN, first off im not here to offend anyone but, if i do, pray for me!

dude y'all aint hearin what y'all sayin, these were the same opinions and philsophies that ushered Jesus to the cross. Jehovas wittnesses, christians, catholics,
buhdist, muslims, so many different factions who supposedly worship the creator. If He created this whole universe then we are all of Him. so where did we form our own opinions, about something that is above our head. God winks at small talk as such. I believe in God the father His son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. It clearly states in the bible from the Jump that the trinity has always been. (let us make man in our own image!) Now if He says "our" thats speakin plural not one individual! I aint steppin on nobody else's religion nor do i intend to, but if you gonna live by something live by the whole thing and not just what suits your idea of a service to GOD!!!


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