Intolerance shows ignorance of Islam

Religion is probably the biggest divider in world history, but for those that believe in God it is central to our existence. Share your views.

Postby Mahmoud Siddiqi » December 9th, 2006, 2:39 pm

Brown Street wrote:Mahmoud Siddiqi wrote:

" Many of what you think are facts are wrong. You are also talking arrogantly and you are totally ignorant of what your saying.

I will not engage in any conversation with you until you truly come with an open mind and leave all this behind because I am not one to waste my time."

This is interesting-apparently what you REALLY MEAN is that until I stop diosagreeing with anything you say, you wont "engage in conversation." Which is 100% fine with me-And, believe me, I am not "totally ignorant" of what I am saying.

As someone who feels Islam is "perfect," and that therefore , you are always correct when speakingf in the subject, and there are no wrongs EVER on your side-you cannot really engage in ANY conversation with ANYBODY who does not want to sit at your feet and say, "Speak Master! I will listen and obey!"

I am also of the opinion that the arrogance is on your side- you tell me I know nothing, that you will not "waste your time," and that your position is the "perfect" one, yet I am arrogant? You, sir, are quite the comedian! Tell me, how is it-being superior and all?

I usually enjoy discussions, but, something tells me that your decision not to "waste your time" and "engage in conversation" with me is not my loss in any way!


I do not speak with hidden meanings so please do not make it sound as if I do. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Only ignorant people try to sound eloquent.

You are correct, I believe Islam's doctrine, the Qur'an, and the sunnah, are all perfect as is told in the Qur'an. Saying that, I want to make clear that Muslims are NOT perfect because we are simply humans trying to live the best way we can, just like anybody else.

As for all the rest of what you said, if you do not wish to talk to me, please remove all your posts from this topic so people don't have to read all your nonsense and waste their time.
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Postby Sentenza » December 9th, 2006, 6:40 pm

Just for the record: I think both of you guys are really educated people. Why not try to learn off each other?

Peace.
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Postby frozen fire » December 11th, 2006, 7:36 am

Have you all forgotten about the christian crusade? the so called holy crusade to cleanse the world of all those did not accept christianity!

On 1095-NOV-27, the Pope called on Europeans to go on a crusade to liberate Jerusalem from its Muslim rulers. "The first and second wave of Crusaders murdered, raped and plundered their way up the Rhine and down the Danube as they headed for Jerusalem."

on the way to the Middle East, they decided that only one of their goals was to wrest control of Jerusalem from the Muslims. A secondary task was to rid the world of as many non-Christians as possible - both Muslims and Jews.
The Crusaders gave the Jews two choices in their slogan: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!"
12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed as the first Crusade passed through. Some Jewish writers refer to these events as the "first holocaust."
Once the army reached Jerusalem and broke through the city walls, they slaughtered all the inhabitants that they could find (men, women, children, newborns). After locating about 6,000 Jews holed up in the synagogue, they set the building on fire; the Jews were burned alive. The Crusaders found that about 30,000 Muslims had fled to the al Aqsa Mosque. The Muslim were also slaughtered without mercy.

and it did not stop there, it was first of the 9 CRUSADES.
These mass killings were repeated during each of the 8 additional crusades until the final, 9th, crusade in 1272 CE. The number of people killed during the crusade, between 1095-1272 1,000,000

Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country.
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Postby frozen fire » December 11th, 2006, 8:09 am

Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the cross road” (Page 8):
“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.”


1. Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests.
Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and antisocial elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace.
At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression.
The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

4. Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians.

i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there wouldnot have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6.More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7.Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, “Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?” ???

8.East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, “Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?”

9.Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book “Heroes and Hero worship”, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

10.No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error”
[Al-Qur’an 2:256].

11.Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
“Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.”
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%.
May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam???

13.Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The past points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

peace out!
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wrongly named . . .

Postby Brown Street » December 11th, 2006, 10:38 pm

apparently this hsould be named

INTOLERANCE OF ISLAM ...

and, no i did not "forget" about the crusades-but, i am replying to statements that Islam is "perfect," and that Mr Siddiqi does not want to listen to my "nonsense," that is, anything that tells a different story of Islam than he tells! He apparently is INTOLERANT to anything that does not match his fantasies!
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"Christian" Crusade?

Postby Brown Street » December 11th, 2006, 10:42 pm

As of now, there are some 20,000 Protestant denominations-all refer to themselves as "Christians." Besides those, there are the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, the Old Catholic Church, and, I am sure, some that I have missed.
The Crusade were orgainzed, paid for, and fought SOLELY by the Roman Catholic Church-no other Christians had anything to do with it-unless you want to include the eastern Orthodox, as they, too, were attacked by the Roman Catholuic Crusaders.
So, simply, to call the Crusades "Christian" is not accurate, and, somewhat misleading, as they were Roam Catholic Crusades.
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NEWS - "HOLOCAUST CONFERENCE" IN IRAN & KKK DE

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 7:39 pm

NEWS ITEM

Duke defends deniers' meeting
Dec. 12: Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke talks to MSNBC's Rita Cosby about attending a conference in Iran questioning whether the Holocaust happened.

MSNBC


NEWS ITEM

Robert Tait in Tehran
Monday January 16, 2006
The Guardian
Iran announced yesterday it would stage a conference to question the authenticity of the Holocaust, a move certain to stir international anger.
The statement follows a series of inflammatory remarks by Iran's hawkish president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has described the murder of six million Jews by the Nazis in the second world war as a myth and called for Israel to be "wiped off the map". He has also suggested an alternative Jewish state should be set up in Europe or Alaska.

NEWS ITEM
Adnkronos International:
Iran has decided to rewrite and revise the history of the Holocaust. Following the repeated declarations by the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and other senior government officials on the need to re-examine the history of the genocide of the Jews during the Second World War, the association of Islamic Journalists of Iran has been tasked with quickly putting together an international conference on the Holocaust

NEWS ITEM
locaust deniers ban dissenting voice
Michael Theodoulou in Nicosia


Arab lawyer kept from Iran hearings
He planned to challenge denials







An outspoken Palestinian lawyer was hoping to challenge Holocaust deniers during a provocative conference that opens in Iran today. The international gathering will question whether six million Jews were actually  slaughtered by the Nazis in the Second World War.

But yesterday Khaled Kasab Mahameed learnt from the Iranian Foreign Ministry — which had invited him to speak — that he would not receive a visa. No reason was given.




Mr Mahameed suspects that it was because he has an Israeli passport. It may also have been because he has made clear what he intended to say.

“I’m bitterly disappointed,” Mr Mahameed, who studied at a British university, told The Times. He was seeking a personal audience with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, to tell him that denials or questioning of “such huge, monstrous horror” harmed the Palestinian cause.

Mr Mahameed lives in Israel, where he has established the Arab Institute for Holocaust Research and Education, the Arab world’s first Holocaust museum, in Nazareth. He believes that the “study, analysis and acknowledgement” of the Holocaust by Arabs is important for a durable peace between the Palestinians and Israel. “It’s not enough to curse these Holocaust deniers as foolish. We have to convince them the Holocaust did happen,” Mr Mahameed said.

A QUESTION
So, is this also nonsense? News items, that tell of something going on in an Islamic country-which I place here to show that "Intolerance" is certainly NOT foreign to the Moslem mind, or the Islamic country. One would pretty much have to agree, eh?
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NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION?

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 8:06 pm

Apparently the thought among Moslems consiering persecution of other religions, compulsion in religion, and intolerance in Islam is not the same! See the excerpts from an article by a Moslem below.


Islamic Intolerance
by Ibn Warraq
from Islam Review
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/isl ... ance.shtml
"The myth of the Golden Age of Inter-Faith Utopia is just that--a myth. Islam, that is, the Koran, Muhammad and his deeds and words, Islamic law and its interpretation, has always been totally intolerant in theory and in practice of non-Muslims...
Muslim theologians are unanimous in declaring that no religious toleration was extended to the idolators of Arabia at the time of Muhammad. The only choice given them was death or the acceptance of Islam. Similarly, no tolerance is shown to atheists and unbelievers. The Koran is full of lurid descriptions of the punishments awaiting them. Surah XXII.9 states: "As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."
The Koran also enjoins all Muslims to fight and kill nonbelievers: "When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Surah XLVII.4).
The years after Muhammad's death in 632 saw the extraordinary expansion of Islam northward to Palestine, Mesopotamia, Syria, Anatolia, and further west to Egypt and North Africa. This rapid rise of Islam is a sad story of, to quote Professor Bosworth, "human intolerance and fanaticism." The subsequent treatment of the Jews and the Christians has been described in two extremely courageous books by Bat Ye'or, The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians under Islam (1985) and Les Chretientes D'Orient Entre Jihad Et Dhimmitude (1991). Bat Ye'or had the courage to tell the unvarnished truth. Reading these two books, can anyone ever again talk of Islamic tolerance? What follows relies heavily on them.
The totalitarian nature of Islam, to use Professor Bousquet's phrase, is nowhere more apparent than in the concept of Jihad, the Holy War, whose ultimate aim is to conquer the entire world and submit it to the one true religion, to the law of Allah. Islam has always claimed for itself universal and exclusive truth--the possibility of salvation outside it is inconceivable. Indeed it is the sacred duty--an incumbent religious duty established in the Koran and in the Traditions--of all Muslims to bring it to all humanity. Jihad is a divine institution and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam. It is the religious duty of all Muslims to fight and kill in the name of Allah:


Kill those who join other gods with God (i.e. idolators) wherever you may find them. (Surah IX.5-6)


Those who believe fight in the cause of God.... (Surah IV.76)


I will instill terror into the hearts of the Infidels. Strike off their heads, then, and strike off from them every fingertip. (Surah VIII.12)


It is a grave sin for a Muslim to shirk the battle against the unbelievers; those who do, will roast in Hell:


Believers, when you meet the unbelievers preparing for battle do not turn your backs to them. Anyone who does - shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home: an evil dwelling indeed! (Surah VIII.15-16)


If you do not fight, He will punish you severely, and put others in your place. (Surah IX.39)


Those who die fighting for the only true religion, that is, Islam, will be amply rewarded in the life to come.

It is abundantly clear from many of the above verses that the Koran is not talking of metaphorical battles or of moral crusades; it is talking of the battlefield. Mankind is divided into two groups--Muslims and non-Muslims. The Umma possess territories in the Dar Ul Islam, the Land of Islam, where the edicts of Islam are fully promulgated. The non-Muslims are the Harbi, people of the Dar Ul Harb, the Land of Warfare, any country belonging to the infidels that has not been subdued by Islam but which, nonetheless, is destined to pass into Islamic jurisdiction either by conversion or by war (Harb). All acts of war are permitted in the Dar Ul Harb.


Once the Dar Ul Harb has been subjugated, the Harbi become prisoners of war. The imam can do what he likes to them according to the circumstances: have them massacred, sold into slavery, exiled, or treated as dhimmis who are tolerated as second-class subjects as long as they pay regular tribute.


At the death of the Prophet, the caliph Abu Bakr organized the invasion of Syria. During the campaign of 634, the entire region between Gaza and Caesarea was devastated; four thousand peasants, Christians, Jews, and Samaritans who were defending their land, were massacred. During the campaigns in Mesopotamia, between 635 and 642, monasteries were sacked and the monks killed, Monophysite Arabs executed or forced to convert; in Elam the population was put to the sword; at Susa all the dignitaries suffered the same fate.


In Egypt at Nikiou the entire population was destroyed. In Armenia the entire population of Euchaita was wiped out. In 642, it was the turn of the town of Dvin to suffer. It was the same ghastly spectacle in North Africa: Tripoli was pillaged in 643; Carthage was razed to the ground and most of its inhabitants killed. So many communities were destroyed that one runs out of expressions to render all the carnage--sacked, devastated, massacred, looted, pillaged, put to the sword, razed, ravaged, burnt, etc.


As Bat Ye'or says, apart from the killing and looting, the whole history of Islamic conquests is punctuated with forced conversions. For example, in August 1198, the Jews of Aden were ordered before the Caliph, and any Jew who failed to turn up was killed. Those who appeared as ordered were humiliated and forced to convert; anyone who defected from Islam later was beheaded. Tavernier, the seventeenth-century French traveler, describes how in Anatolia, "il y a quantite de Grecs qu'on force tous les jours de se faire Turcs" ("There are numerous Greeks who are forced every day to become Turks").


To maintain their safety and the right to worship, non-Muslims had to pay a poll tax and a land tax, which proved such a crushing burden that many villages were abandoned as the villagers fled to the hills or tried to lose themselves in the anonymity of large towns to escape the tax-collector. In Lower Egypt, for example, the Copts, utterly ruined by the taxes, revolted in 832. The Arab governor ruthlessly suppressed the insurrection, burning villages, vineyards, gardens, and churches. Those not massacred were deported."


The article continues-anyone interested can see it in its entirety at the above mentioned website.
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Planned Attack on Innocents-NEWS ITEM

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 8:25 pm

Moslem Convert Arrested in Rockford, Illinois Planning to Attack Sopping Mall during Christmas Rush

By MIKE ROBINSON, Associated Press Writer Sat Dec 9, 10:33 AM ET
CHICAGO - "A Muslim convert is in custody accused of trying to trade two stereo speakers for a 9 mm pistol and the grenades authorities say he wanted to carry out an attack on holiday shoppers.
The FBI says it was tipped by an acquaintance of Derrick Shareef, then recorded the 22-year-old planning to use hand grenades to blow garbage cans into clouds of flying shrapnel in a crowded mall the Friday before Christmas.
"This is a warning to those who disbelieve," he said, according to an FBI affidavit."


It seems the "warnings to those who disbelieve" always take the form of surprise attacks in unsuspecting innocents-a particulalrly nasty form of "intolerance."
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Hindus don't get a pass either . . .

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 9:02 pm

MUSLIM PERSECUTION OF HINDUS

The man you see above begging for his life is a Hindu who had the misfortune of walking past a mosque in Bangladesh as its congregation was leaving after Friday prayers. Vimal Patak was beaten to death in the name of Islam as an imam watched. This could soon happen again in a neighborhood near you.
[The above refers to a very graphic photo of a man who had been beaten bloody]

It is hard to believe that the capital city of the Hellenistic Greek empire of Bactria was located in what is now Afghanistan. It is also difficult to believe that Afghans at one time were either Hindus or Buddhists -- peaceful people. But the dark and evil sea of Islam advanced from the west and with it came a wave of destruction even worse than that which had vanquished much of Christendom. While Islam allows "people of the book" to pay protection money to their Muslim masters that is not true for idolators and polytheists who must, according to the Koran, be slain one and all.


I will not recount the story of Muslim atrocities against Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists here. That has been done very thoroughly elsewhere. I will instead list some Web resources that do a good job of telling this dark story.


The Voice of Dharma offers a number of free online books, pamphlets and monographs on India affairs. Amongst them you will find The Story of Islamic Imperialism in India by Sita Ram Goel. It does a good job of providing a chronological history of the rape, murder, enslavement, pillage, plunder, desecration and despoliation Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists suffered at the hands of barbarous Muslim invaders. Satyameva Jayate, an Indian site, also does a superb job of documenting the Hindu Holocaust in a somewhat more digestable format.


Francois Gautier sums it up this way, "In other parts of Asia and Europe, the conquered nations quickly opted for conversion to Islam rather than death. But in India, because of the staunch resistance of the 4000 year old Hindu faith, the Muslim conquests were for the Hindus a pure struggle between life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and their populations massacred. Each successive campaign brought hundreds of thousands of victims and similar numbers were deported as slaves. Every new invader made often literally his hill of Hindu skulls. Thus the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed, the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter'. The Bahmani sultans in central India, made it a rule to kill 100.000 Hindus a year. In 1399, Teimur killed 100.000 Hindus IN A SINGLE DAY, and many more on other occasions. Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's "Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY. (Negat.34)


But the "pagans" were far too numerous to kill them all; and Hinduism too well entrenched in her people's soul, never really gave up, but quietly retreated in the hearts of the pious and was preserved by the Brahmins' amazing oral powers. Thus, realising that they would never be able to annihilate the entire Indian population and that they could not convert all the people, the Muslims rulers, particularly under the Hanifite law, allowed the pagans to become "zimmis" (protected ones) under 20 humiliating conditions, with the heavy "jizya", the toleration tax, collected from them." You may read all of Gautier's article here.


Historian Will Durant wrote in his book The Story of Civilization:


"The Mohammadan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."


The bit about "multiplying within" makes my blood run cold.


Hindus living in Bangladesh are also under siege by Muslims. You can learn more about their plight here. A particularly sad account of Muslim atrocities in Bangladesh can be found here.




April 12, 2006 in Muslim Persecution of Hindus


See Website: http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_ev ... index.html
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Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 9:13 pm

Be sure to check the quotes from the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini-unbelievable!
From the Website: http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_ev ... index.html

see website for more


"Muslim Sexual Perversion

Pedophilia

Let me begin with a quote from a fatwa by the late and unlamented Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

You need not fear that your Muslim male baby-sitter will rape your 7-year-old daughter. If he is a good Muslim he will only sodomize her. If he does force his penis into her tiny vagina he is obligated to pay for any surgical repairs that may be required. If those repairs are deemed insufficient you may work out a financial settlement to compensate you for his trivial infraction. No big deal. Muslim boys will be Muslim boys. And, after all, she is only a girl.


Other forms of sexual abuse inflicted on children by Muslim male family members include fondling of genitals, coercing a child to fondle the abuser's genitals, masturbation with the child as either participant or observer, oral sex, anal or vaginal penetration by penis, finger or any other object. Another technique used by Muslim men is called "thighing". The child's legs are pressed together and the abuser inserts his penis between the thighs of the little boy or girl. As this was how Mohammed had sex with his wife, Aisha, from the time she was six years old the practice, of course, was approved of by Ayatollah Khomeini who in his Little Green Book asserted “It is not illegal for an adult male to 'thigh' or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her.” Yes, indeed, you can be a good Muslim while copulating with the thighs of an infant. An Arab woman vigorously denounces this vile practice in the following video clip from Bahrain TV.  Her denunciation of the "thighing" of infants and young girls comes towards the end of the interview.


This practice flourishes in Muslim countries where women are ruthlessly oppressed and normal sexual development systematically suppressed. That would include the Arab world, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Deny men wholesome and natural sexual outlets and they will find unwholesome and unnatural alternatives.


The Grand Ayatollah's full ruling on marriage can be found here.  The institution of "temporary marriage" appears to be designed to facilitate prostitution.  A USA Today article tells the story.


Homosexuality


Islam has the effect of denying Muslim boys and girls the opportunity to develop their sexuality in a normal, wholesome fashion. The public mixing of sexes is prohibited by Islam although it may be tolerated by the secular governments of most Muslim nations. Denied the opportunity to have normal heterosexual experiences during adolescence and frequently the victims of sexual abuse by male relatives while they were growing up it is no wonder that Muslims are much more likely than infidels to find romance and sexual gratification in homosexual relationships. The following excerpt from a piece published in a gay and lesbian publication gives one a notion of Muslim sexuality in Saudi Arabia.

"Ibrahim bin Abdullah bin Ghaith, the head of the religious police (the Committee for the Prevention of Vice and the Promotion of Virtue) acknowledged, in unusually tempered language, that there are gay Saudis, while also speaking of the need "to educate the young" about this "vice". But he denied media reports that gay and lesbian relationships were the norm in the strictly segregated schools and colleges, that homosexuality "is spreading".

In an unprecedented two-page special investigation, the daily newspaper Okaz said lesbianism was "endemic" among schoolgirls. It justified the article with a saying of the Prophet's wife Ayeshathat "there should be no shyness in religion". The article told of lesbian sex in school lavatories, girls stigmatised after refusing the advances of their fellow students, and teachers complaining that none of the girls were willing to change their behaviour.

Mr Ghaith dismissed a suggestion that he should send his "enforcers" to investigate. Armed with sticks, they routinely hunt down men and women in public they suspect may not be directly related. "This perversion is found in all countries," he told Okaz. "The number [of homosexuals] here is small ..." That assessment is contradicted by teachers and students who say that, in the absence of other outlets, a "gay" subculture has inevitably flourished among youth.

"A particularly beautiful boy always gets top marks in the exams because he's some teacher's favourite," said Mohammed, an English teacher in a government high school in Riyadh. "On the other hand, I know many older boys who deliberately flunked their final exams so they can stay ... with their younger sweethearts."

Ahmed, 19, a student at a private college in Jeddah, said there was no shame in having a boyfriend in his private high school. Although he firmly rejected the label "gay", he admitted that he now has a "special friend" in college, too. "It's those who don't have a boy who are ashamed to admit it. We introduce our boy to our friends as 'al walid hagi' [the boy who belongs to me]. At the beginning of term, we always check out the new boys to see which are the most 'helu' [sweet] and think of ways to get to know them."

Gay marriage is not the contemporary invention of decadent Western civilization. The Egyptian city of Siwa has for centuries legitimized and celebrated marriages between Muslim men. No other community has done more to suppress heterosexual behavior thereby making homosexuality the norm. A gay cruising guide to Siwa provides both historical background and tips on finding gay sex partners in that city -- truly a no-brainer. Gay marriage is also practiced in Afghanistan. News reports documenting that fact and others about rampant Afghan homosexuality can be found here. Paradoxical though it may be, Islam calls for the severe punishment of homosexuality while at the same time working diligently to make that forbidden practice more attractive. An excellent analysis can be found here.

If you have a particular interest in the Islamic persecution of homosexuals al-bab.com is a good place to pursue it further. As this form of barbarity is inflicted on Muslims by Muslims and is relatively rare I will not dwell on the matter much further. The overwhelming majority of homosexuals who have been murdered by Muslims died because they were infidels. Count the millions murdered and multiply by whatever percentage incidence of homosexuality you fancy. You will get a very, very large number in return.

Bestiality


Is there a proper Muslim way to have sex with animals? Indeed, there is! Guidelines for sex with animals can be found in the writings of Ayatollah Khomeini. Two excerpts from his writings serve to clarify the matter.

"A man can have sex with sheep, cows and camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine." Don't the buyers deserve a discount of some kind?

Khomeini's "Tahrirolvasyleh" fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

"If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned." What if it was really good and invites another lap or two? Must animals always be one-night stands?

The Little Green Book, Sayings of Ayatollah Khomeini, Political,

Philosophical, Social and Religious, ISBN number 0-553-14032-9, page 47 -- Look it up. This is for real!

Muslim village elders in Sudan were recently more lenient in the matter of bestiality. The BBC story -- politically correct in its omission of any reference to Islam -- can be found here."
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MUSLIM HONOR KILLINGS

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 9:18 pm

From the website:
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See website for more


"MUSLIM HONOR KILLINGS
There are feminists who equate Muslim honor killings of female family members with Hindus and Sikhs murdering daughter-in-laws in order to extort larger dowries and crimes of passion in which a woman is murdered by a husband or boy friend in Western countries. However, Muslim honor killings are always perpetrated by members of the victim's immediate family: husband, brother, father or mother. Their object is always to restore family “honor”. In that important regard they are different from all other murders of women.


Honor killing is currently virtually unknown in Muslim sub-Saharan Africa, Bangladesh and Indonesia. It is most commonly practiced by Muslim Arabs, Kurds, Turks, Afghans and Pakistanis and their immigrant populations abroad. It now occurs in every Western country burdened with a Muslim immigrant subculture.


Nowhere in the Koran or Hadith (biographies of Muhammed) will you find scripture or text that legitimizes honor killing. In fact, it is forbidden. Married women who commit adultry are to be stoned to death according to Islamic law. But they must be judged by a religious court that requires testimony from four male witnesses to insure a conviction. The sentence would then be carried out by religious authorities; not family members. That being the case, is it fair and just to attribute the practice of honor killing to Islam? Should this loathesome crime be attributed instead to tribalism or some other aspect of culture independent of Islam. I think not. Islamic misogyny facilitates the practice. Proof for this assertion can be found in the fact that the Hindu and Christian minorities who share in every way except religious faith the culture of the Muslim nations in which they reside do not engage in honor killings.


The following excerpt from an article by an anti-Islamist who uses the pseudonym of Ali Sina supports my analysis.


“Honor killing is neither in the Quran nor is it specified in any hadith. It is however the natural outcome of the Islamic ethos of misogyny.


Women in Islam are regarded as sources of shame. Muhammad said they are awrah which can be translated as object of shame.


"Ali reported the Prophet saying: 'Women have ten ('awrah). When she gets married, the husband covers one, and when she dies the grave covers the ten." [1]


What is awrah? The Encyclopedia of Islam defines 'awrah as pudendum, that is the external genitals, especially of the female. Pudendum derives from the Latin pudor which means sense of shame and modesty. So awrah signify an object of shame that needs to be covered. [2]


According to the following Hadith, women not only have ten 'awrah, but the woman herself is perceived as 'awrah:


"The woman is 'awrah. When she goes outside (the house), the devil welcomes her." [3]


If a woman loses her awrah by e.g. through rape, she becomes the object of shame for her family and the only way to remove that shame and restore the honor is to remove that defiled woman.


So you can say honor killing is cultural, but it is a culture that is deeply rooted in Islamic mindset and derives from it. It is practiced in all Islamic countries. The more religious is a country, the more is widespread the honor killing.


Women are asked to; “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display” Quran 33.33


A woman who transgresses these orders becomes the source of shame to her family. She will not be marriageable, she and her family become the object of gossip of everyone. The entire family can lose prestige. No one would give a daughter to the brothers of that girl in marriage and no one would marry her sisters. The family and even the extended family are maligned and become outcasts. This can only stop if the family cleanses that stain with blood. The woman thus defiled must be sacrificed even if she is a victim of rape.


But you don’t have to be raped to become an exposed awrah and bring shame to your family. If you disobey your father who has consented that you marry a certain person you dishonor him. If you escape from your home for any reason including abuse, you have brought shame to your family and you could be haunted by your own brothers or even your mother and killed. If you reject a suitor, his pride can be injured and he may feel the urge to throw acid at your face to avenge and restore his honor.


If you are a female you have to remember that you have brought shame and disgrace to your father and everyone else in your family the day you were born and you must cover this shame, You are awrah, a pudendum, something to be ashamed of, something to hide. When you go to your husband’s house, your parents can breathe a sigh of relief. But from there on you become the awrah of your husband. Only the grave will cover all the shame that you have brought to this world. But as long as you are alive, it is your religious duty to be modest and cover this shame and not disgrace your qayyuums (male guardians). Your male kin, (father, brothers, husband, sons and even uncles) are your qayyuums and you are their awrah. If you make a dazzling display of yourself, the honor of all these "honorable" male relatives is injured and all of them have a right to burry you to restore their honor.


Muslim men have very low self esteem but they compensate the smallness of their selfhood by inflating their ego. If you are a women related to them, they feel as if they own you. Whatever you do affects their gigantic ego. They are possessive and feel dishonored if you make a "dazzling display" of yourself. And of course if you are deflowered, this is an affront to their humongous pride. The damage is irreparable and the only way to restore that pride is to get rid of you.


Honor killing is theoretically against the law in all Islamic countries, but generally the sentences are light. Often they are a year of jail or only a few months. The judges are very "understanding" and sympathize with the killers who are also grieving for the loss of their loved one. Most likely the Judges would do the same in similar situations. Everyone agrees that this is a very unfortunate situation that has no other solution but taking the life of the poor girl. Often the brothers and the parents hug the lifeless cadaver of their victim and cry bitterly after stabbing her to death or strangulating (sic) her. They don't listen to her pleading and begging to spare her life, but sure they cry profusely for her after they kill her.”


Ali Sina in spite of his best efforts does not capture the obscene horror of it all. Newspaper reports make the story more personal. Click on the following links to flesh out this portrait of evil.

Germany
Britain
Jordan
Palestine
Sweden
Denmark
Yemen
Iran
Pakistan
Israel


Val McQueen's "Honor They Father - Or Else" published in TCS Daily offers more on the subject."
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MUSLIM RAPE

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 9:21 pm

From the Website:
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MUSLIM RAPE

"I got some comments, among others from Norwegian blogger Bjørn Stærk, to my posts about the Norwegian government covering up the number of rapes committed by immigrants. The Swedish government is probably even worse, but Sweden is in many ways collapsing. Although he agreed that the statistics should be published, he questioned whether these rapes have anything to do with Islam. It is true that mass rapes of "the enemy's women", in part to humiliate the enemy's men, is not unique to Islam. It has been done at times of war by the Vikings, the Mongols, the Germans and the Russians during WW2, and all the way up to the Balkans in the 1990s. That's also my point. The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. This happens in most Western European countries, as well as in other infidels countries such as India. In Bradford, England, Channel 4 pulled a documentary about Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abusing white English girls, some as young as 11. Writer Theodore Dalrymple thinks that "thanks to their cultural inheritance, (Muslim) abuse of women is systematic rather than unsystematic as it is with the whites and blacks." In France, grotesque reports about systematic gang rapes of French or "too Western" Muslim girls keep coming in. At the same time, European jails are getting filled up with Muslims imprisoned for robberies and all kinds of violent crimes, and Muslims bomb European civilians. You can see the mainstream media are struggling to make sense of all of this. That's because they can't, or don't want to, see the obvious: This is exactly how an invading army would behave. Rape, pillage and bomb.


I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today:


Robert Spencer on rape and jihad 


What does rape, then, have to do with these religious conflicts? Unfortunately, everything. The Islamic legal manual ‘Umdat al-Salik, which carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, stipulates: “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” Why? So that they are free to become the concubines of their captors. The Qur’an permits Muslim men to have intercourse with their wives and their slave girls: “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves” (Sura 4:23-24).

After one successful battle, Muhammad tells his men, “Go and take any slave girl.” He took one for himself also. After the notorious massacre of the Jewish Qurayzah tribe, he did it again. According to his earliest biographer, Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad “went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for [the men of Banu Qurayza] and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.” After killing “600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900,” the Prophet of Islam took one of the widows he had just made, Rayhana bint Amr, as another concubine.

Emerging victorious in another battle, according to a generally accepted Islamic tradition, Muhammad’s men present him with an ethical question: “We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl [coitus interruptus] with them.” Muhammad told them: “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.’” When Muhammad says “it is better that you should not do it,” he’s referring to coitus interruptus, not to raping their captives. He takes that for granted.


Here's what Vice Director of Jihad Watch, Hugh Fitzgerald, whom I rate in league with Ali Sina and Ibn Warraq as among the best commentators of Islam in this age, has to say about the issue (scroll down):


'For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct'


For non-Muslim women, they are in every respect -- the way they walk, the way they talk, those bedroom eyes we all know so well -- simply asking for it, and Muslim men have every right to do what they wish.

It is not understood that Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as "their women," the women who "belong" to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hands -- by demographic conquest rather than military conquest. It has worked in many parts of Africa; and if Muslims fail to reproduce even faster than they do, there is always the expedient of killing the remaining Infidels.

All over France there are cases of rapes, by MUslim gangs, of French girls. In Australia, in 2000, Bankstown and Greenacre (in Sydney) had a succession of gang-rapes, in which the victims testified to the particularly gruesome details of being assaulted by a dozen or more men at a time, screaming at them for being "Aussies" or "Christians." It made a big splash in Sydney, when the cases came to trial in 2002. Alan Jones, an Australian commentator, noted: "Let's not mince words here -- these are racist attacks against ordinary Australian girls carried out by out of control Muslim Lebanese...." The girls themselves all testified to the fact that the attacks were full of observations about, not race, but religion -- and the confusion of Jones here is understandable. The Western world is still groping to understand something of which it had been so remarkably and indeed, in some ways so fortunately unaware; it is the attitudes engendered toward Infidels -- a Frenchman who is beaten to death for trying to retrieve his daughter's stolen bicycle, a mother and her year-old-child assaulted on an RER train near Louvres, the thousands of assaults which are a modern version of the rape and pillage that Muslim conquerors were permitted whenever they conquered Infidel lands. This is not mere crime, but ideologically-justified crime or rather, in Muslim eyes, attacks on Infidels scarcely qualify as crime.

Have we forgotten the mass rapes, at the hands of Muslims (Turks, Kurds, and in the Syrian Desert, Arabs) of the Armenian women, those helpless "giavours," in the first full-scale massacres in modern times, those of 1894-1895, and then the genocidal campaign that began in 1915 and went on for years? Have we all forgotten what happened to the Assyrian Christian women during the Assyrian massacres of 1933, when -- just a few months after the British left -- Muslim Iraqis had a high old time with their helpless Christian population? What about the rapes of the Christian women, kidnapped in Ramadi, Iraq last year -- never to be returned to their husbands, and now the permanent property of the Muslims who kidnapped them? Shall one recall what happened to the Christian Maronites in Damur, at the hands of the PLO? What about the Copts, in Egypt? Or, during the Algerian War the mass rape of Christian and Jewish women by the FLN (scarcely given enough attention in Alastair Horne's reticent "A Savage War of Peace" but given much more by such writers as Jacques Soustelle, the great ethnographer of Mexican culture, and a perceptive analyst of the Algerian situation and the real nature of Islam -- akin, in his way, to Andre Servier).

The figures on Muslim rape of Western women in Europe are astounding. In Denmark and Norway, between 65% and 70% of all rapes are committed by Muslims, who as yet still less than 5% of the population. One local judge in Norway actually exonerated one rapist by accepting his defense that the victim's dress was taken by him to mean that she was egging him on. Her dress was nothing special to Norwegians, but the judge found it to be unbearably provocative to this poor Muslim immigrant. A curious argument, is it not? Even if she had been dressed a la Gisele Bundchen doing a shoot for Victoria's Secret -- and she of course was not -- rape is not an acceptable response.

The argument now seems to be: Western mores are offensive. Western women are cheap and offensive. We Muslims are here, here to stay, and we have a right to take advantage of this situation. It is our view of the matter that should prevail. Western goods, like the land on which we now live, belong to Allah and to the best of men -- his Believers. Western women, too, essentially belong to us -- our future booty. Western laws may "apply" but not in any sense that really counts or that we reocgnize. We recognize Islamic law, the sharia, and according to that we are simply exhibiting the attiudes toward Infidels that are drummed into us, that are right and according to the laws of Allah. Why should we act differently? Oh, and if we happen to act, as some of the Islamic websites tell us we can act, in accordance with the local laws -- but only insofar as they do not contradict Islam -- that is only because of darura, the doctrine of necessity -- and that necessity, that darura, is of course only temporary.

In other words, when in Rome, if you are Muslim, do any damn thing you please and justify it by saying you didn't realize you were in Rome, or what the Romans did, and anyway, the Romans are Infidels so who cares what they do, or expect. A fascinating attitude. The sooner this is fully grasped by Infidels, the fewer victims, ultimately, there will be."

It appears that the sexuality of many Muslim men resembles that of pigs, monkies and dogs more than that of civilized males. I may be being unkind to dogs in saying so. Dogs do not shout "Allahu Akhbar" while humping your leg.


A female family member who has been raped is a candidate for Muslim "honor" killing. Her continued existence is a living advertisement for her family's shame. That practice will be dealt with at length in the section devoted to "honor" killing. But what is the fate of a Muslim woman who violently resists being raped by Muslim males? Death, of course. The following story from Iran makes that clear. It is excerpted from the Web page of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Sexually mutilated as a young girl in Somalia she is now a Dutch parliamentarian who is protected by armed bodyguards because of threats to her life by other Muslims.


Source: www.faithfreedom.org


"Iran : A 17 year old girl is sentenced to death by hanging.


Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders.
Thank you Amnesty International and thanks to all the friends who wrote to Amnesty International. Please keep writing to the Office of High Commissioner of Human Rights: tb-petitions@ohchr.org


Although AI calls Nazanin a "child offender", Nazanin is guilty of no offense. Self defense cannot be considered offense.


Nazanin, 17,  was sentenced to death by hanging for defending herself against three rapists.


A young girl who defended herself and her chastity against three male assailants who intended to kidnap and rape her causing injury to one of them who later died in hospital was condemned to death by hanging in an Islamic court in Iran. Nazanin who has seen no more than 17 Springs, all of which under the tyrannical rule of the Mullahs is now facing execution for trying to defend herself and her honor.


No where in the world and under no law self defense is considered to be a crime, but in the tyrannical mullacracy of Iran if a woman does not resist rape she will be stoned as adulterer and if she does she will be hanged.


Nazanin, this young innocent girl, was assaulted by three criminal men in the West of Tehran while strolling with her niece in a park last March (2005). To defend herself she pulled out a knife and stabbed one of her assailants. The knife penetrated the ribs of her attacker who later died in the hospital. The attacks on women in Iran is so frequent that many are forced to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Unfortunately the Islamic law does not even allow women that right.


Despite the fact that she had been acting in self defense, as shown by the evidences presented and the testimony of eyewitnesses, Nazanin was sentenced to death by hanging. In the last court hearing she repeatedly said “I only defended myself and the honor of my family”. Her words fell of deaf ears and the all male jury who like their misogynist prophet thought it is outrageous for a woman to stand for her rights and defend her dignity and honor, swiftly ordered her execution.


The travesty of justice in Islamic Republic of Iran is beyond description. Please send this news to all the newspapers big and small. Please do not allow this crime go unnoticed. This girl is an innocent flower in the hands of ferocious beasts. Do not allow them to nip her young life in the bud. Let us together provoke an outcry so loud that the ruling thugs in Iran can’t ignore."


Nazanin was hanged by her neck until dead. Her death scene very likely resembled that of another public hanging of an Iranian woman shown in the photographs below. The victim resembles a crude rag doll. Women are little more than that in the evil domain of Islam.
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MUSLIM SLAVERY

Postby Brown Street » December 12th, 2006, 9:25 pm

From the Website:
http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_ev ... index.html
see website for more

MUSLIM SLAVERY
Slavery is acknowledged and regulated by Islamic law. Islamic rules governing the treatment of slaves are more lenient than those that once prevailed in the Roman and Byzantine empires. Furthermore, Muhammed, a slave owner and slave trader, encouraged his followers to treat their slaves well.


Apologists for Muslim slavery attempt to make the case that Islam is, in fact, opposed to slavery and that the traditional institution of Muslim slavery was humane. However, Muslims like those of other faiths, often ignore those elements of their religion they find inconvenient. There is as a consequence an enormous gulf between the theory and practice of Muslim slavery. Apologists take refuge in theory while critics rely on facts and the facts about Muslim slavery are truly horrible.


A general overview of the Muslim enslavement of black Africans can be found here. It deals not only with the Muslim slave trade in Africa but the European slave trade as well.


Muslim and Arab Turks have always been partial to European slaves and value them more than black slaves. European slaves were acquired through conquest, raids and piracy. As many as a million Christians were enslaved through piracy alone during the 1,200 or so years that Muslims preyed on merchant ships in the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. Muslims in one raid on Iceland took 800 slaves while Muslim pirates ranged as far as Newfoundland. Nearly the entire population of the village of Baltimore in Ireland was enslaved during a Muslim raid in 1631 and other Muslim slave raids were launched against coastal villages in Devon and Cornwall. Many more Christians were enslaved through raids and military conquest. An article about Britains enslaved by Muslim raiders can be found here.


To this enormous number we must add countless Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists enslaved during the Muslim rape of India. In the end the European and American slave trades are dwarfed by that of the Muslim world.


British and French colonialism ultimately put an end to slavery in much of Africa by seizing and controlling territory and interdicting the trade at sea. America and European powers finally put an end to Muslim piracy in the 19th century. External political, economic and military pressure, largely British, over time forced Muslim nations to ban slavery. Saudi Arabia and Yemen banned it in 1962 while Mauritania has banned it three times, the last one being in 1980. However, the covert practice of slavery continues in Saudi Arabia to this day. Some Saudis living in America have also practiced slavery on American soil.


While Islamic scripture may encourage the good treatment of slaves this guidance has been generally ignored by Muslims. The truth of the matter can be found in the written testimony of those who have been the slaves of Muslims or observed how Muslims treated slaves. There is no shortage of this material. Two reviews of books that touch on the matter can be found here. An excellent article on the subject can be found at The American Thinker.


Winston Churchill in 1899 described what is most deplorable about Islam more concisely than anyone who has written on the subject since.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.


The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”


-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).


An article written by a Muslim published in the Bangladeshi newspaper Daily Star provides an enlightened perspective on Muslim slavery past and present. Civilized voices can be found in the Muslim world and this is one of them.


Ask-Imam.com answers the question of whether Muslims can have sex with slave girls today. Today's Muslim slavers and slave owners ignore the Islamic formalities described. Practice in no way resembles theory.
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Questions for Siddiqi

Postby Brown Street » December 13th, 2006, 10:35 pm

Mr. Siddiqi,
You have made the accusation that the things I have posted previously concerning historical actions of Moslems are "nonsense" and "lies." I posted several items yesterday that speak of actions by Moslems, both historical and contemporary, that are, indeed, in the least, suspect, and at the worst, horrible. One of the postings that I made noted that Moslem apologists tend to "take refuge in theory" when the facts are quite something else. I would like to ask you some questions concerning these postings, to better understand youir outlook, and see if you, too, retreat solely to the area of "theory", or can look truthfully at historical and contemporary occurrences in the Moslem world. The answers to these questions should also clear many things up for anyone else interested in this site.

1. Is there or is there not a conference in Teheran that seeks to "question the authenticity of the Holocaust," that is, the murder of 6,000,000 Jews by the Nazi regime during World War II?

2. Do you yourself believe that the Holocaust actually took place?

3. Are there or are there not delegates to this conference, such as the KKK associated David Duke, who spread racist propaganda, such as that blacks are an "inferior race"?

4. Do you or do you not agree with the invitation of those holding such beliefs to this conference?

5. While the Koran may, as you insist, allow "no compulsion in matters of religion," do you agree that there have been instances of exactly that in Moslem history, as well as persecutions of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, Zoroastrians, animists, etc.?

6. Do you acknowledge that the Moslem institution of "Dhimmitude" in some Islamic countries has resulted in the persecution and relegation of those who practice religions other than Islam to the status of second class citizens?

7. Do you agree or not that the instructions concerning sex with children and animals appeared in the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

8. Are you familiar with any or all of the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

9. Do you acknowledge the Moslem practice of "Honor Killing"?

10. Do you agree with this practice, that is, is it justified in any circumstance?

11. Do you agree with the practices concerning women and girls who have been raped in some Moslem countries-such as Saudi Arabia and Iran-that is, that these victims should be charged with a crime and subsequently executed?

12. Do you agree that women are treated extremely badly in some Moslem countries, especially in light of the information about rape in the preceeding question?

13. Do you agree that, in the past, Moslems have engaged in the slave trade and held slaves themselves?

14. Do you agree that some Moslem countries did not outlaw slavery until the late 20th century?

15. Do you agree that slavery is still practiced today in some Moslem countries?

16. Do you see any justification whatsoever for the current practice of Moslems holding slaves (if, indeed, you agree this does happen)?

I think a lot of things can be cleared up if you can possibly answer these questions. Thank you for your time, if you decide to answer the questions.
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one more . . .

Postby Brown Street » December 13th, 2006, 11:54 pm

one more thing I wanted to ask . . .

Christianity (and I presumne ALL religions other than Islam) is outlawed in Saudi Arabia; do you feel the Saudis have the right to do that?

If so, would the Unites States have the right to outlaw Islam?
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okok

Postby Tacomahilltop » December 14th, 2006, 3:46 am

ok ok some ppl here are saying some annoying things "muslim boys will be muslim boys" i know you didnt say that. Thats offensive, just becuase ppl are allowed to doesnt mean they do. you think all muslims are getting married with 9 yr old girls thats the past nobody does that anymore and ive read that the crusaders when pillaging towns they raped little boys when they couldnt find girls now please explain. now the slavery part i couldnt even be bothered to read its probably about how 1000 years ago we took some africans and made then slaves if im not wrong america had slaves just 100 years ago or so and dont try tpo say arab americans did then to cuz there were none in america then and im ready to bet that if the slave traders had made it to the arab gulf they would have made us their slaves too!! now about the thing in tehran yes thats offensive and yes its truthfully a bunch of shit of course it happened this conference is beeing held by the biggest anti jew in the world what do you excpect.
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 6:17 am

First, it is important to know that thousands of years ago life was different than today. Today, people wouldn't accept slavery for any reason. The reason for this is because people are a lot more independent both financially, education wise, mentally, etc... But people back then were different. When a tribe or a group of people lose a major battle and their money is mostly, if not all, is taken as war booty by the other side, then people could and would accept being slaves for the following reasons:

- Both financial and social security. When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty. Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life. Living as a slave would provide this.

2- Protection from hostile individuals. Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands. An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector".

3- Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor of the enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master. Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone. Slavery back then was that social system in special cases.

There are probably more points I can add, but I think these are sufficient enough. Let us now see the Islamic System toward Slaves:

Yes slaves were taken from the blood-thirsty and hostile enemies, but they were also given the right to get their freedom when ever they want. The Noble Quran not only allows slaves to request their freedom from their Muslim masters, but also orders the Muslim masters to pay the slaves money to help them stand on their feet and to be able to face life with a good jump start.


Let us look at Noble Verse 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)," In this Noble Verse, we see that if a slave requests his freedom from his Muslim master, then his master not only must help him earn his freedom if there is good in the Slave, but also pay him money so the slave can have a good start in his free life.

"The law of slavery in the legal sense of the term is now obsolete. While it had any meaning, Islam made the slave's lot as easy as possible. A slave, male or female, could ask for conditional manumission by a written deed fixing the amount required for manumission and allowing the slave meanwhile to earn money by lawful means and perhaps marry and bring up a family. Such a deed was not to be refused if the request was genuine and the slave had character. Not only that, but the master is directed to help with money out of his own resources in order to enable the slave to earn his or her own liberty." [3]

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)."
The Bottom line is:

The bottom line is that in order for the Muslims to remain as a purified and GOD Almighty-fearing and obeying society, one of the requirements that they had to accomplish was to gradually and completely eliminate slavery - the same slavery that was at its peak during the Jews', Christians' and Pagans' times.
you can neither beat your slave
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 6:23 am

Prophet Muhammad divided the food between the slaves and the free:

Let us look at the following narration:

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was brought a pouch containing bread and divided it among free women and slave women. Aisha said: My father used to divide things between free men and slave. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Tribute, Spoils, and Rulership (Kitab Al-Kharaj, Wal-Fai' Wal-Imarah), Book 19, Number 2946)"

As we clearly see from this saying, our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did honor slaves and their human dignity and value. Islam is a religion that honors humans. If it wasn't for the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery that was brutally practiced in the Middle East, then Islam would not have dealt at all with slavery.

Islam is a religion that did not come to enslave people, but to free slaves!

Let us look at Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

What kind of a human value does the Bible give to slaves? If slaves and their children must be inherited and passed down to newer generations as slaves, then how in the world will they ever gain their freedom?? Does the Bible believe in Freedom? Does the Bible believe in liberating human beings from slavery? Apparently it does not !!!.

Matthew 10:24 "A student is not greater than the teacher. A slave is not greater than the master."

Let us look at 1 Peter 2:18 "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Let us look at Colossians 3:22 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."
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Postby Sentenza » December 14th, 2006, 6:24 am

Not that i want to interrupt this discussion, but i would like to throw my 2 cents in on the islam issue (i try to keep it short):

Yes, Islam these days is a vehicle, that certain groups (Taliban, Hizb'Allah etc.)use as legitimation for violence and war.
And yes, todays Islam is moving in a very conservative and radical direction.
But the reason for this does not lie within Islam itself but in the political constellation of the Islamic world.
In the 19th century until the beginning to the 20th century, there have been serious discussions in the islamic about why, the islamic world is politically inferior to Europeans superpowers of that time. England and France ran amok in the islamic world as it pleased them and the islamic world had nothing to set against that.
There were two major groups, who offered two different solutions (unfortunately i forgot the names of those). One claimed, that Islam has to liberalize and modernize itself in order to reform islamic countries in order to bring Islam back to its past glory it had in the "golden muslim age".
The other one was claiming, that the Muslim world fell away from the original pure belief and the inferiority of Islam is a punishment by god, owed to lack of belief and heresy in the islamic world. In order to regain strength people have to belief more and Allah will reward them.
The conservative fraction prevailed and thus the islamic version of modernization was understood as having to go back to the roots in order to prevail in the modern world. --->if your country is occupied by a foreign superpower it is because you have a lack of belief and you have to become more radical.
That was the foundation on which groups like the Wahhabits and the Deobandi school in northern India developed their philosophy.
If you know about them, you will know, that they are amongst the most radical and conservative islamic movements of all time.
Due to this fact, and the fact, that even though the english and french withdrew from that region, only to be replaced by other superpowers like the Soviet Union and the USA, who indirectly colonized the Islamic world again you can observe strong reactionary reflexes in those countries.
Since the political situation is desastrous in all of these countries, people try to find their salvation in hardcore islam,
because the promised democracy turned out to be a nightmare for them, cause in the language of the contemporary superpowers democracy means having a dictator in power who serves the purposes of e.g. the USA. Saddam, Mubarak, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Najibullah (who was installed by the SU) etc. the list goes on.
This made millions of people turn their back to democracy and made them join forces with radical islamic forces, because they are the only ones that seem to not join forces with the corrupt elite and the foreign powers.
They seem to be the only ones that do not "sell out".
Example: The Afghans strongly supported the Taliban against the Soviets
because they hoped they d improve the situation in Afghanistan (until they found out that this was not the case).
The Palestinians support Hizb'Allah and Hamas, because who else is there that is standing for them? The USA? Europe? No, not even the other islamc countries.

I mean lets be honest, Europe and the US have not brought many good things to the middle east.

To come to the point, i think that the radicalisation of islam is owed to the bad political and economical situation in the middle east, which is caused by many factors, but the interference of Europe and the US is one of the biggest of them.

Islam would need a reformation, like Europe went through in the 16th century, but that will only happen when you leave the islamic world to itself solving their problems for themselves. Without the US interfering and wothout Europe interfering, because all we do is fucking the region up and make things worse.
Right now the extremists are considered martyrs, heros and freedom fighters. But let them into power and people will quickly realize that with empty phrases you cant feed people and solve political everyday problems. All in all i think Islam is a very respectable religion and has potential to turn the region into a prospering place.

Peace
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 6:24 am

In 1457, the Council of Cardinals met in Holland where they sanctioned, as a righteous and progressive idea, the enslavement of Africans for the purpose of their conversion to Christianity and exploitation in the labor market as chattel property. This satanic scheme speedily gained the sanctimonious blessing of the Pharaoh (Pope) and became a standard policy of the Catholic Church, and later of the Protestant churches, enduring for three centuries: thus the ghastly traffic in human misery was anointed with the oil of pontifical righteousness in Jesus' name.

A bull of Pharaoh Nicholas 5th instructed his followers to `attack, subject, and reduce to perpetual slavery the Saracens, Pagans and other enemies of Christ, southward from Cape Bojador and including all the coast of Guinea'.

In fact, most of the Africans who were caught up in the Atlantic slave trade came from West Africa, an area roughly from Senegal River in the north to the Congo River in the South.

But why were West Africans specifically targeted ? Because they were Muslim.
We also find that during the Scramble for Africa / colonization of Africa, two countries were totally unaffected - Liberia and Ethiopia. In fact Ethiopia doubled the size of its empire during European colonization. Why ? They were CHRISTIAN countries!
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Postby Sentenza » December 14th, 2006, 6:31 am

frozen fire wrote:In fact, most of the Africans who were caught up in the Atlantic slave trade came from West Africa, an area roughly from Senegal River in the north to the Congo River in the South.

But why were West Africans specifically targeted ? Because they were Muslim.
We also find that during the Scramble for Africa / colonization of Africa, two countries were totally unaffected - Liberia and Ethiopia. In fact Ethiopia doubled the size of its empire during European colonization. Why ? They were CHRISTIAN countries!


I have to disagree with you here. Liberia was founded sometime in the 19th century, and became christian at first at that time.
And i think Ethiopia was already in the hands of the Arab slave trade.
The arabs controlled the whole east coast of africa. Did you know that Zanzibar meant "Island of the black slaves" in arabic. Matter of fact, 60% of the words in Kiswahili are of arabian origin i heard.
I think the west coast of africa was targeted the most by slave traders, because it was technically too difficult to travel further into the african continent. The west coast of africa was easier to reach for european slave traders.
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 6:57 am

RAPE

Christians follow the laws of the Bible only. All of their religious sources, laws and verdicts come straight from the Bible (if we were to have true Christian countries where Church would rule over the State), except for Roman Catholics where they have other Volumes written by Church Fathers and Popes. But most Christians in the world have no religious resources other than the Bible.

Therefore, let us look at what the Bible says regarding this issue:

Rape is a big crime that could actually take the woman's or the victim's life away. Let us examine how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?.

Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:25)" This is quite an interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if a man rapes a single woman then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a man rapes a married woman or a woman who is spoken for, in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman in the Bible. For those Christians who think that they don't have to follow the Old Testament, well my answer to them is this: The Old Testament prohibits for the brother to marry his sister, or for the son to marry his mother. The New Testament doesn't even talk about it. Does that mean that a Christian brother can marry his sister? or a Christian son can marry his mother? Jesus himself anyway ordered his followers to follow the Old Testament, so their argument is totally invalid.

Question to Jews and Christians: How is the Bible supposed to prevent some loser from stalking the most beautiful single woman in town, rape her, and then sue her in court to become his wife so he can continue raping her for the rest of her life?!


When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

AUGUST 21 2001

In the capital Riyadh, Saudi citizen Dowaihi bin Mohammed al-Qahtani was executed after he was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping and raping boys, the ministry said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam that demands the death penalty for murder, rape, drug trafficking and armed robbery."


THE UNITED STATES AMERICA is supposed to be one of the most advanced country in the world, it is also has the highest rates of rape in the world. according to the FBI report in 1990, EVERYDAY on the average 1756 cases of RAPE in the u.s.a alone. it later on moved upto an average of 1900 cases of rape aday.
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 7:15 am

Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.



The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.



25. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

26. Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27. And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28. And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons,(including the little girls) and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29. Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

30. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons(including the little girls), of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.

31. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

32. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33. And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34. And threescore and one thousand asses,

35. And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37. And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.

40. And the persons(including little girls) were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls)


In the verse 35 we are told that Jews caught as booty 32.000 preteen girls for themselves.


So when we hear from the media, Priests(Christians and Jews-majority of Christians) that rape and molest young preteen boys and girls, we must not be surprised because these are the teachings from their “Holy Book” the Bible, as clearly demonstrated from the Verses : Numbers 31: 25-40.


- The Pedophilic Verses against 3-year old girls:

While Christians are not obligated to follow the laws of the Talmud in their social lives, but the historical FACTS that exist in the Talmud about the Biblical verses Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40 below, and how the "BIBLE FOLLOWERS" during those days were mostly pedophiles who literally forced sex on 3-year old girls after Moses' supposed 'Divine' order is clear indication that the Bible condones pedophilia


Also, in Exodus 21:7-11 as further elaborated on below, girls were sold off as slave girls by their own fathers to other men

Exodus 21:7-11
7. "If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.
8. "If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her.
9. "If he designates her for his son [Note: "his son" means that the master is either her father's age or even much older!], he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters.
10. "If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.
11. "If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

First of all, did the daughter have any choice to be sold off by her father, married off by her master to either himself or his son? No!

Also, the fact that the master can either marry her or marry her off to his son, means that MOST LIKELY, SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER'S AGE and younger than his son!! So he's probably at least 30+ years older than her. Yet, he himself (her father's age or even MUCH older) can marry her.
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 7:19 am

1- Homosexuality is forbidden in the Noble Quran:

Let us read the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran:

Noble Verses 26:165-166, 27:55, 29:28-29 were sent to me by brother Bassam Zawadi, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom God has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" (The Noble Quran, 26:165-166)"

"Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! (The Noble Quran, 27:55)"

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth." (The Noble Quran, 29:28-29)"




Also, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said:

'Abd al-Rahman, the son of Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, reported from his father: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0667)"


This Hadith (Saying of the Prophet) is clearly saying:

1- A man can not see another man's private parts (butt and groin).

2- A woman also can not see another woman's private parts, including breasts except perhaps during the time of suckling a baby.

3- A man can not sleep with another stranger man in the same room.

4- A woman can not sleep with another stranger woman in the same room.

Note: Even bringing suspicion of being a homosexual, fornicator, adulterer or adulterous against yourself is forbidden in Islam.

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 4:16)" The punishment is 100 stripes. See proof.

"We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? (The Noble Quran, 7:80)"

"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women: Ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. (The Noble Quran, 7:81)"

"(We also sent) Lut (as an apostle): behold, He said to his people, "Do ye do what is shameful though ye see (its iniquity)? (The Noble Quran, 27:54)"

"Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! (The Noble Quran, 27:55)"

Homosexual marriage being allowed in Islam is nothing but a false claim that has absolutely no truth in it.
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 7:25 am

Let me begin with a quote from a fatwa by the late and unlamented Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.


If there is no such saying or belief in the HOLY QURAN AND THE SUNNAH OF THE HOLY PROPHET.
THEN IT IS NOT IN ISLAM!

furthermore please do not call ISLAM Muhammaden or Muhammadism, it is a wrong title the non-muslims have been using for quite some time now.

peace out!
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Postby frozen fire » December 14th, 2006, 7:35 am

In 316 AD, a Christian philosopher from Tyre, Meropius, embarked on a voyage of exploration along the coast of Africa. He was accompanied by, among others, two Syro-Greeks, Frumentius and his brother Aedesius. The vessel was stranded on the coast, and the natives killed all the travelers excepte the two brothers, who were taken to the court and given positions of trust by the monarch. They both practiced the Christian faith in private, and soon converted the queen and several other members of the royal court. Upon the king's death, Frumentius was appointed regent of the realm by the queen, and instructor of her young son, Prince Ezana. A few years later, upon Ezana's coming of age, Aedesius and Frumentius left the kingdom, the former returning to Tyre where he was ordained, and the latter journeying to Alexandria. Here, he consulted Athanasius, who ordained him and appointed him Bishop of Axum. He returned to the court and baptized the King Ezana, together with many of his subjects, and in short order Christianity was proclaimed the official state religion.[8] For this accomplishment, he received the title "Abba Selama" ("Father of peace").

in short order Christianity was proclaimed the official state religion.
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Re: Questions for Siddiqi

Postby Mahmoud Siddiqi » December 14th, 2006, 12:26 pm

As Salam Alaikum,

I will answer all the questions I am able to, but I want to tell you that you are making a couple mistakes with your "research". One of them is that your referring to everybody's works except the ones that matter, and you haven't referred to the Qur'an or sunnah once, which are the only sources that matter or hold any value. The second one is that you are judging and basing Islam (as a doctrine) on the actions and words of Muslims instead of referring the doctrine itself. This is a mistake for many reasons, most notably that Muslims are not perfect and make many mistakes, even if they are following the Qur'an and sunnah. This is because of te Muslim's ownself. When studying something, you do not go everywhere to find answers except the subject of your study. Ally ou will get is misconceptions and lies.

Brown Street wrote:1. Is there or is there not a conference in Teheran that seeks to "question the authenticity of the Holocaust," that is, the murder of 6,000,000 Jews by the Nazi regime during World War II?


I believe so.

Brown Street wrote:2. Do you yourself believe that the Holocaust actually took place?


Yes, it is a proven historical fact.


Brown Street wrote:5. While the Koran may, as you insist, allow "no compulsion in matters of religion," do you agree that there have been instances of exactly that in Moslem history, as well as persecutions of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, Zoroastrians, animists, etc.?


Yes, carried out by people claiming to be following Islam, but not.


Brown Street wrote:7. Do you agree or not that the instructions concerning sex with children and animals appeared in the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

8. Are you familiar with any or all of the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?


Khomeini was not following true Islam. He had many distorted, twisted, and some simply made up beliefs. I do not accept any of his opinions except those agreeing with the Qur'an and sunnah.

Brown Street wrote:9. Do you acknowledge the Moslem practice of "Honor Killing"?

10. Do you agree with this practice, that is, is it justified in any circumstance?


No. This practice is 100% opposite of the teachings of Islam.

Brown Street wrote:11. Do you agree with the practices concerning women and girls who have been raped in some Moslem countries-such as Saudi Arabia and Iran-that is, that these victims should be charged with a crime and subsequently executed?


No.

Brown Street wrote:12. Do you agree that women are treated extremely badly in some Moslem countries, especially in light of the information about rape in the preceeding question?


Women are treated bad in every country, even Muslim countries due to the fact that Muslims aren't following their religion. This is in no way justifiable.

But even if you compare the situation and treatment of women in America to those in Arabia, any woman in her right mind who knows the facts wouldn't hesitate to live in Arabia.

Brown Street wrote:13. Do you agree that, in the past, Moslems have engaged in the slave trade and held slaves themselves?

14. Do you agree that some Moslem countries did not outlaw slavery until the late 20th century?


The meaning that Islam gives to slavery (the type of slavery practiced in the times of Prophet Muhammad) and the slavery that you are thinking of, that was created and practiced by Western and European governments, are completely different.

Brown Street wrote:15. Do you agree that slavery is still practiced today in some Moslem countries?


Yes. The Western and European form of slavery in still practiced in Sudan and other parts of Afrika and the Middle East. This to, is 100% contrary to the teachings of Islam.

Brown Street wrote:16. Do you see any justification whatsoever for the current practice of Moslems holding slaves (if, indeed, you agree this does happen)?


No.
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Postby Tacomahilltop » December 16th, 2006, 5:27 am

brownstreet do you fail to aknowledge there was slavery in america until the 20th century to and man some muslim countries still practice slavery so what so do asians countries and so on.
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questions on slavery

Postby Brown Street » January 2nd, 2007, 10:05 pm

Tacomahilltop wrote: "brownstreet do you fail to aknowledge there was slavery in america until the 20th century to and man some muslim countries still practice slavery so what so do asians countries and so on."

Slavery in America until the 20th century?

All that I am aware of in that respect is that the Emancipation Proclamation supposedly abolishing slavery was promulgated by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War-possibly in 1863, I dont remember the exact date. If there was, indeed, slavery in America (meaning the United States of America-I know wnothing about South America in this respect . . .)-enlighten me!

That Moslem countries still practice slavery is known to me-"so what"-in other words, you mean that this is ok, right? If that is so, then it was ok for slavery to be practiced in this country, correct?

I do not know anything about slavery being practiced in some Asian countries, but if it was, it would not surprise me. There was basically a form of slavery practiced in the USSR, eastern Europe, People's Republic of China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc., etc., under hardcore communist regimes-this would obviously STILL include North Korea.
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answers . . .

Postby Brown Street » January 2nd, 2007, 10:20 pm

Mr. Siddiqi,
Thank you for your answers. I apologize in that I judged you as one who would either NOT answer these questions or simply IGNORE them. For that I ask your forgiveness!

Your exclusion of the Shia from the ranks of Islam is one that, of course, the great numbers of Shia in Iraq, Iran, and elsewhere would obviously vociferously disagree with. I am no expert on that dispute, and do not know if the Shia extend the Sunnis the same favor and exclude them from Islam also.

The current troubles between the Shia and Sunnis in Iraq is a sad situation, but an interesting one in the fact that the Sunnis, under the regime of Saddam Hussein, persecuted the Shia to a great extent-as everyone probably knows, the reason that Saddam Hussein was hanged was his murder of 150 Shia. Of course, under his regime, many more than 150 met their deaths at the hands of his lackeys.

Although it may not be what is considered "fair," or "democratic" in the eyes of George Bush, but, I find it intereesting that the Sunnis in Iraq seem to have completely forgotten about that chapter in their history, and cannot understand why the Shia -the great majority in Iraq, by the way-feel that as the majority, they should rule the country!

I also find it intersting that the Saudis do not want the Americans tro lo leave Iraq, lest the Sunnis there meet a terrible fate at the hands of the Shia. At any rate, I doubt that the Shia will ever agreee to the Sunnis receiving a 1/3 share! No wonder the Kurds want out of the whole mess! Which two countries who have no love for each other-Turkey and Iran-wholeheartedly agree that the Kurds whould NOT be let out of the mess! Lest the Kurds in Turjey and Iran seek to join their brothers in Iraq and proclaim a Greater Kurdistan! Middle eastern politics are very inrteresting, no matter what else one may say about the situation.

I understand your mention of those who do not practice Islam properly although they claim to be Moslems . . . how would you characterize the Sunni Moslems, such as AlQaida, who practice terrorism by murdering innocents? Bad Moslems? Not worthy of the name?
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Re: answers . . .

Postby Mahmoud Siddiqi » January 6th, 2007, 1:32 pm

Brown Street wrote: Your exclusion of the Shia from the ranks of Islam is one that, of course, the great numbers of Shia in Iraq, Iran, and elsewhere would obviously vociferously disagree with. I am no expert on that dispute, and do not know if the Shia extend the Sunnis the same favor and exclude them from Islam also.


I did/do not exclude the Shi'ite from the fold of Islam because anybody who says "la ilaha illa Allah wa anna Muhammadur Rasulullah" is my brother even if he has corrupted beliefs or wrong understandings of something. I have no right to tell anybody what they are or aren't. Allah is the only judge.


Brown Street wrote: I understand your mention of those who do not practice Islam properly although they claim to be Moslems . . . how would you characterize the Sunni Moslems, such as AlQaida, who practice terrorism by murdering innocents? Bad Moslems? Not worthy of the name?


Again, it is not my right to judge. I can only hope that anybody who has any misunderstandings, wrong ideas, corrupted beliefs, etc will realize their wrong doings and come to the whole Truth and repent for any wrong they did. I cannot see the intentions of anybody but my own.
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