Why do you believe in God?

[MiChuhSuh]

The gods used to control humanities future, under the Old Covenant. When Adam and Eve sinned, they gave their right and authority over to the Serpent-god.

This was the 4000th year of the earth, which was created in 3930 B.C.

You're going waaaaaay beyond Apologetics now...

But it's interesting to see your views. I just got into looking at this field of proofs, I will definitely look at Kant and the others you mentioned.

[chriscomis]

The gods used to control humanity's future, under the Old Covenant. When Adam and Eve sinned, they gave their right and authority over to the Serpent-god.

This was the 4000th year of the earth, which was created in 3930 B.C.

You're going waaaaaay beyond Apologetics now...

But it's interesting to see your views. I just got into looking at this field of proofs, I will definitely look at Kant and the others you mentioned.

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C. date for the creation of the earth. The problem though is that in the last 150 years, and even much earlier, the art and science of biblical chronology has all but vanished from the theological scene, let alone the apologetic scene. Many of the Church Fathers used biblical chronolgy to prove the historicity (or non-historicity) of secular historical claims. The reason I used the Oecolampadius tag is because he was one of the early Magisterial Reformers who fought hard to get the Church to see the importance of biblical chronology. Not much is know of him today, primarily because he was overshadowed by the likes of Martin Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin; but a goodly number of the later Reformers looked to him for his keen biblical insights, not the least of which was his use of biblical chronology.

The Church has suffered tremendously because of her lack of historical groundedness. To the extent that we have neglected the chronology of the Word of God, we have become gnostic spiritualizers of history. The bible is a very earthy book. No other so-called religion is as grounded in historical events as the bible. It gives us an historical creation, historical chronologies, and an historical ending. The bible is the only holy book that gives us anything like a linear history (beginning, middle, and ending). To the Hindus, history is ultimately an illusion. To the Muslims, history is an unending cycle of jihads. To the secular humanist, history is an undending cycle of economic and/or political revolutions (if he's optimistic!). If he's pessimistic, history is an unending cycle of meaningless events with no rhyme or reason.

Just remember, history is His-Story.

"Sir, our troops are surrounded by the enemy on all sides." And the general replied, "Excellent! Now they can't get away."

[johnnnny]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

[frozen fire]

ofcourse not.

[chriscomis]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

Nope. I would argue that the earth will be 6000 years old in the year 2070. I will be 95 years old and (God willing) still alive to see that day. So as of this year, 2007 Anno Domini, the earth is 5937 years old (Anno Mundi).

Talk about a huge Bronx Cheer for the whole scientific establishment!!

Thanks for the request for clarification.

[king phoenix]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

Nope. I would argue that the earth will be 6000 years old in the year 2070. I will be 95 years old and (God willing) still alive to see that day. So as of this year, 2007 Anno Domini, the earth is 5937 years old (Anno Mundi).

Talk about a huge Bronx Cheer for the whole scientific establishment!!

Thanks for the request for clarification.

i thought dinosuars were millions of years old!, whats up with that?

[chriscomis]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

Nope. I would argue that the earth will be 6000 years old in the year 2070. I will be 95 years old and (God willing) still alive to see that day. So as of this year, 2007 Anno Domini, the earth is 5937 years old (Anno Mundi).

Talk about a huge Bronx Cheer for the whole scientific establishment!!

Thanks for the request for clarification.

i thought dinosuars were millions of years old!, whats up with that?

Nope. Dinosaurs were created with man on the sixth day and lived with man on the earth for 1656 years until the flood (Noah's Flood). At which time most of them went extinct, at least the ones that lived on land and could not fit into the ark. The bible mentions a couple of these "thunder lizards" in the book of Job 40 and 41. Here is where the "Behemoth" and the "Leviathan" are mentioned. I could refer you to a number of books, if you would like, for further reference.

"It's a G thang with a G swang,
Let my knuckles hang down to the flo mane."- King Kong, The Gorilla Gangsta Rap

[EmperorPenguin]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

Nope. I would argue that the earth will be 6000 years old in the year 2070. I will be 95 years old and (God willing) still alive to see that day. So as of this year, 2007 Anno Domini, the earth is 5937 years old (Anno Mundi).

Talk about a huge Bronx Cheer for the whole scientific establishment!!

Thanks for the request for clarification.

i thought dinosuars were millions of years old!, whats up with that?

Nope. Dinosaurs were created with man on the sixth day and lived with man on the earth for 1656 years until the flood (Noah's Flood). At which time most of them went extinct, at least the ones that lived on land and could not fit into the ark. The bible mentions a couple of these "thunder lizards" in the book of Job 40 and 41. Here is where the "Behemoth" and the "Leviathan" are mentioned. I could refer you to a number of books, if you would like, for further reference.

"It's a G thang with a G swang,
Let my knuckles hang down to the flo mane."- King Kong, The Gorilla Gangsta Rap

You may be quoting sources but is that what you honestly believe? That man and dinosaurs walked the earth together? I mean I believed that when I was like 6 watching the Flinstones but come on now.

[johnnnny]

The whole issue of dating Creation used to be a huge apologetic issue, which is why Bishop Usher attempted it and came up with his 4004 B.C

so what r u sayibg the earth is 6000 years old?

Nope. I would argue that the earth will be 6000 years old in the year 2070. I will be 95 years old and (God willing) still alive to see that day. So as of this year, 2007 Anno Domini, the earth is 5937 years old (Anno Mundi).


Thanks for the request for clarification.

NP

Talk about a huge Bronx Cheer for the whole scientific establishment!!

actually yes it was

the earth aint 5937 years old, carbon dating can go back as far as 60,000 years. Which might be used to prove that wrong.

[A Ghost]

lol @ 6000 years

[frozen fire]

the earth aint 5937 years old, [b]carbon dating can go back as far as 60,000 years. Which might be used to prove that wrong[/b].

of course the earth was more then 6000 years old, even a 4 grader will tell you that. One might argue how far back does mankind go?, but you cant say the earth is less then 6000 years old!

[MiChuhSuh]

chriscomis, i liked your stuff of logical and transcendental proof, but you're going waaaaay beyond the scope of reason with some of this dinosaur and dating the earth stuff. you need to get your info from more than just the internet man!

[johnnnny]

check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-T_extinction

[A Ghost]

Quote from another site

My atheism is based on my experience with religion and my studies of scripture in general.If you actually took the time to dissect the bible you would find that some of the things contained within it's pages are nothing more than an insult to a persons intelligence.

Stating that god made up all these rules to nature is a stretch considering that all things that live wither and decay.Many life forms have gone extinct because of thier failure to adapt.

In fact if you read the Old Testament it shows that god is nothing more than an evil tyrant.He supposedly made up the ten commandments and he himself has broken all ten of them ten fold.Also, some people in the bible have existed in real life.The only reason for this is that the bible is a mixture of fact with fiction.

Lets not forget that it is a reflection of middle eastern lore.

The bold is a really good point.

If God created life on Earth then it was for a reason correct?

So then why is it that 99% of the species that ever existed on this planet are now extinct?

[MiChuhSuh]

Dinosaur-era plants fuel your cars (oil)

I can't think of many serious explanations, but just think about your own life and how things come to play - remember every negative has a purpose, find it!

This isn't really a "Christian" thing, it's really a generic lesson I heard, but basically it went like this:

People are like springs. Some people grow up easy, with no pressure in life, and end up never reaching for their potential, only living the easy life with no purpose (Pari...). When people feel pressure in their lives, they become stronger and harder, and when they finally overcome whatever was holding them down, they suddenly shine and you see their full potential and ability. Some of the most successful people in history have always said adversity was what made their greatness possible. However, if you hose a spring all the way down for too long, it will get stuck that way (this is to show that everyone needs help in hard times), but as soon as one overcomes the difficulty in life, we can rise to become great - without that, we never grow.

So when you face hard times, thank God!

Just something to think about

[A Ghost]

Dinosaur-era plants fuel your cars (oil)

I can't think of many serious explanations, but just think about your own life and how things come to play - remember every negative has a purpose, find it!

This isn't really a "Christian" thing, it's really a generic lesson I heard, but basically it went like this:

People are like springs. Some people grow up easy, with no pressure in life, and end up never reaching for their potential, only living the easy life with no purpose (Pari...). When people feel pressure in their lives, they become stronger and harder, and when they finally overcome whatever was holding them down, they suddenly shine and you see their full potential and ability. Some of the most successful people in history have always said adversity was what made their greatness possible. However, if you hose a spring all the way down for too long, it will get stuck that way (this is to show that everyone needs help in hard times), but as soon as one overcomes the difficulty in life, we can rise to become great - without that, we never grow.

So when you face hard times, thank God!

Just something to think about

Good quote


...doesnt prove od exists though

[A Ghost]

*God

[frozen fire]

We live in a world where millions doubt the existence of God: a world of science and technology in which people only accept what they can prove, see, measure, weigh or touch. Understandably, abstract concepts are accepted with caution. Belief in the existence of God is, therefore, treated with suspicion, disdain and often with amusement. Certainly the sophisticated western mind calls for more than nebulous unproved theories upon which to base faith. Nevertheless, were you to visit any country in the world, you would find that the majority of people believe that a supernatural Being (we'll call Him God) does exist. In other words, believers in a God of some sort outnumber unbelievers. Many people believe that there are thousands of gods, not just one: though they will readily agree that over and above the lesser gods is One Almighty God. In this small booklet we will try to prove the existence of God with simple logic and small stories.

One important point we need to understand in the first place is that the existence of God cannot be proved in the same way, as you prove the existence of a physical object. This is simply because God is not a physical object. Any physical object is subject to your five senses. In simple terms, you can see, hear, smell, touch or taste a physical object. This is not possible in the case of God, as He (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala / swt) is a Transcendental Being [existing on a level beyond our sensual perception].

There are people who argue that the only form of knowledge available to humans is experiential knowledge or experimental knowledge, gained primarily by the use of outer senses. This led to the belief that human beings are constituted in such a way that the knowledge of reality is always unavailable to them; and so it resulted in a renewal of attention to the everyday world of appearances. The knowledge of here and now became the only object of human knowledge and concern. Thus from this point of view, the project of seeking knowledge of reality behind appearances must be abandoned, because it is beyond the scope of human understanding.

Now think: Can't there be a way of "being" [existing] that is not susceptible of being perceived by the limited capabilities of humans through their defective senses?

I hope that the implications of the two expressions I used above ['limited capabilities' and 'defective senses'] are evident to any thinking person. The claim that something does not exist, because you haven't seen or heard it is untenable. When we consider the limitations of our sensual perception and of our reasoning powers, it is not necessary that we understand everything. We can speak meaningfully about everything simply on the basis of our perception. So to speak of "proof" with regard to a Transcendental Being becomes irrelevant.

What we can do is to point out facts which lead to a constant and inescapable awareness of the presence of God. It is clear that logically we cannot rule out the possibility of more things existing than can be perceived by our senses or can be arrived at by our reasoning. As for Man, there are two dimensions to his existence: One of matter and the other of spirit. Reduced merely to the level of material existence, Man becomes a machine or a mere animal at best. But think of a machine that rebels against being a machine; or of an animal that refuses to be an animal. That is what man is! What is it that makes him rebellious, angry, disappointed, frightened or hopeful? What is his dimension that gives him his imagination, his artistic genius, his creative urge? Why does he have nightmares and sweet dreams?.

It is not matter that does it; evidently it is his spirit that makes him so different from animals. So to base our knowledge of the world and our philosophy of life simply on the material side of our existence to the complete exclusion of the spiritual dimension, is undoubtedly faulty. The strength of Islam as a philosophy and as a way of life is that it does not separate man's material life from spiritual life, and that it seeks a balance between the two dimensions of human existence.

We should understand that human spirit is a reality incommensurable with material realities, and that it owes its existence only to God. Thus dear friends, if we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and over the complexities of our own existence, we are bound to conclude that God is the Reality behind all appearances. The Holy Qur'an says in Surah 2, verse 164, the meaning of the following:

"Most surely in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships that run in the sea with that which profits men, and the water that Allah sends down from the cloud, then gives life with it to the earth after its death and spreads in it all (kinds of) animals, and the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the heaven and the earth, there are signs for a people who understand." (2:164)

That is to say the external signs we see in the universe should necessarily lead a wise person to the Ultimate Reality behind it all. And that is how we arrive at the realization that God Almighty is the Moving Power behind all life and all existence.

What would constitute objective proof of God? Well, consider the following self-evident and universally recognized truth: Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer. It's simply cause and effect. In our search for proof of God's existence, let's examine the various scientific and mathematical realities in our world.

[A Ghost]

Yeah but why should I base my life around something that Ive never met or heard from?

Im just gonna live my life by whats around me and what I want to do.

[frozen fire]

Im just gonna live my life by whats around me and what I want to do.

Thats your choice, no one is forcing anyone with his or her ideas.

[A Ghost]

Im just gonna live my life by whats around me and what I want to do.

Thats your choice, no one is forcing anyone with his or her ideas.

[justice league]

I beleive in God because time and again people always let me down

I need something to believe in.
And since I will most probably outlive my dog, I need something a little more omnipotent than that.

and dog spelled backwards is God... And i believe therein lies a powerful message

laugh all you want,

Dog never let me down.

[A Ghost]

..........................................

[Mcminister]

the way life is fo me, i gota believe there is a god

sometimes in distress i talk to the dead ( my dead homies/family) like i dont get no answers back but i kno they watchin n even if they arent i'd rather think they are,

i have alot of dead friends and fam but i never had a dream of even1 of'em since they died

[Noog]

I was brought up in a Christian household and grew up believing in God. Time came when I stopped going to church. Then I heard Bob Marley and got into the idea of God as Jah - and Jah was the Creator who understood rebellious young peeps and was cool with me smoking up Solomons herbs for the healing of the nations (my belief at that time) - reggae tunes and beating drums was meditation and having a smoke on a big chalwa with an old rastaman was a sacrament those days, bless, bless, praise jah.
Now I believe in the Creator still. And the Creator inspires compassion, love, justice, strength and heart in me and is so far from the Uber Cheesy god of evangelist and penticostal thinking who seems lime a manipulative being if ever I heard o' one.