Questions for the Nations (NOI, NGE, etc)

Religion is probably the biggest divider in world history, but for those that believe in God it is central to our existence. Share your views.
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MiChuhSuh

Questions for the Nations (NOI, NGE, etc)

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » July 29th, 2007, 2:16 pm

I'll just get to it

1. If Yacub made the devils, then he was born before devils existed. So was he also a blackman god?

2. Since Yacub made the devils with the intent of creating a corrupted, sinful race, then isn't he to blame for the devils' actions since they were intentionally malformed from the corruption of some of the gods?

3. Since it was by no choice of their own that the devils exist in their despicable state, then aren't the gods (Yacub being one of them) responsible for their current state and wellbeing, in the same way that a crack-baby should be given special care and nurtured by his mother?

4. If the devils were created by Yacub, who was a blackman god, then why can't slavery then be justified as the retaliation of the devils for their perpetually miserable and filthy existence which they never chose to have (since they were originally breeded and manipulated from some of the gods)?

5. Since we can all agree slavery is not justifiable, then how do you explain the above answer?

Hoping to get some good discussion.

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king phoenix
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Unread post by king phoenix » August 19th, 2007, 11:45 am

ive had the privillege of building with a God, and have some knowlege, wisdom , and understanding of thier culture! by no means do I speak for the NOI or NGE but in an attempt to shed some light on the subject. yes Dr. Yakub was GOD! and from my personal understanding, he created the "grafted" or White man, in an attempt to create the Ultimate evil from the ultimate good! The purpose of creating a polar opposite of the "Original" man was to create chaos! this choas was to strengthen the resolve of the "original" man!
Dr. yakub on the other hand was cast out of asia into the mountians of europe!
so to answer your other questions, yes yakub was cast out too!
And as far as slavery, all i can say is that if white people our the devil. then they cant be blamed for acting in accordance to their created purpose!

i hope this gave you some insight!

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » August 19th, 2007, 12:32 pm

I see. Then why do (some) NOI and NGE members have a hostile position against both Yakub and the devils? Shouldn't they then honor Yakub for his work since he was a god acting to make the original man stronger, and shouldn't they pity and help the devils?

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Unread post by KINGFEAR62 » August 20th, 2007, 6:55 am

Who is dr yakub

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Unread post by Champignon » August 20th, 2007, 7:16 am

-Did you know Dr.yakub would never have existed if Wallace Fard Muhammed never thought up the story? True story
-He never existed its an old wives tale, a white lie.
-The original blacks cast dr.yakub out into europe because the original inhabitants of africa could not fathom sharing there land with white people.
-yakub is a variant to the way semetic people say the word jacob in the european languages. The person from the bible

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » August 20th, 2007, 8:40 am

actually in the Arabic translation Yakub is who we called Job in the Bible, the one who suffered but never cursed God and was therefore rewarded.

But there is more than one person in the world with that name.

And ya, I don't believe the NOI or NGE stories, I'm Christian. I just wanted to know how the story could fit together if he was supposedly a "god" but at the same time the most hated in their theology.

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Unread post by ManifestTruth » August 23rd, 2007, 9:57 pm

actually in the Arabic translation Yakub is who we called Job in the Bible, the one who suffered but never cursed God and was therefore rewarded.
Thought Yakub was a Semitic variant that translates into Jacob?

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » August 23rd, 2007, 10:19 pm

ManifestTruth wrote:
actually in the Arabic translation Yakub is who we called Job in the Bible, the one who suffered but never cursed God and was therefore rewarded.
Thought Yakub was a Semitic variant that translates into Jacob?
It is. But the Qu'ran uses a different translation method somehow... don't ask why I got no idea and most Arab speakers and Muslims don't really know why either.

For example, Jesus' actual name was written Yeshua. The pre-Muhammad Arabic Bibles and Aramaic Bibles all had it translated "Yasu" but the Qu'ran suddenly translated it as Isa.

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Unread post by frozen fire » August 25th, 2007, 12:31 pm

MiChuhSuh wrote:
ManifestTruth wrote:
actually in the Arabic translation Yakub is who we called Job in the Bible, the one who suffered but never cursed God and was therefore rewarded.
Thought Yakub was a Semitic variant that translates into Jacob?
It is. But the Qu'ran uses a different translation method somehow... don't ask why I got no idea and most Arab speakers and Muslims don't really know why either.

For example, Jesus' actual name was written Yeshua. The pre-Muhammad Arabic Bibles and Aramaic Bibles all had it translated "Yasu" but the Qu'ran suddenly translated it as Isa.

Eesa Latinised to "Jesus"

The Holy Quran refers to Jesus as Eesa, and this name is used more times than any other title, because this was his "Christian" name. Actually, his proper name was Eesa (Arabic), or Esau (Hebrew); classical Yeheshua, which the Christian nations of the West latinised as Jesus. Neither the "J" nor the second "s" in the name Jesus is to be found in the original tongue - they are not found in the Semitic languages.

The word is very simply "E S A U" a very common Jewish name, used more than sixty times in the very first booklet alone of the Bible, in the part called "Genesis". There was at least one "Jesus" sitting on the "bench" at the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin. Josephus the Jewish historian mentions some twenty five Jesus' in his "Book of Antiquities". The New Testament speaks of "Bar-Jesus" a magician and a sorcerer, a false prophet (Acts 13:6); and also "Jesus-Justus" a Christian missionary, a contemporary of Paul (Colossians 4:11). These are distinct from Jesus the son of Mary. Transforming "Esau" to (J)esu(s) - Jesus - makes it unique. This unique (?) name has gone out of currency among the Jews and the Christians from the 2nd century after Christ. Among the Jews, because it came to be a name of ill - repute, the name of one who blasphemed in Jewry; and among the Christians because it came to be the proper name of their God. The Muslim will not hesitate to name his son Eesa because it is an honored name, the name of a righteous servant of the Lord.

MiChuhSuh

Unread post by MiChuhSuh » August 25th, 2007, 12:59 pm

frozen fire wrote:
MiChuhSuh wrote:
ManifestTruth wrote:
actually in the Arabic translation Yakub is who we called Job in the Bible, the one who suffered but never cursed God and was therefore rewarded.
Thought Yakub was a Semitic variant that translates into Jacob?
It is. But the Qu'ran uses a different translation method somehow... don't ask why I got no idea and most Arab speakers and Muslims don't really know why either.

For example, Jesus' actual name was written Yeshua. The pre-Muhammad Arabic Bibles and Aramaic Bibles all had it translated "Yasu" but the Qu'ran suddenly translated it as Isa.

Eesa Latinised to "Jesus"

The Holy Quran refers to Jesus as Eesa, and this name is used more times than any other title, because this was his "Christian" name. Actually, his proper name was Eesa (Arabic), or Esau (Hebrew); classical Yeheshua, which the Christian nations of the West latinised as Jesus. Neither the "J" nor the second "s" in the name Jesus is to be found in the original tongue - they are not found in the Semitic languages.

The word is very simply "E S A U" a very common Jewish name, used more than sixty times in the very first booklet alone of the Bible, in the part called "Genesis". There was at least one "Jesus" sitting on the "bench" at the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin. Josephus the Jewish historian mentions some twenty five Jesus' in his "Book of Antiquities". The New Testament speaks of "Bar-Jesus" a magician and a sorcerer, a false prophet (Acts 13:6); and also "Jesus-Justus" a Christian missionary, a contemporary of Paul (Colossians 4:11). These are distinct from Jesus the son of Mary. Transforming "Esau" to (J)esu(s) - Jesus - makes it unique. This unique (?) name has gone out of currency among the Jews and the Christians from the 2nd century after Christ. Among the Jews, because it came to be a name of ill - repute, the name of one who blasphemed in Jewry; and among the Christians because it came to be the proper name of their God. The Muslim will not hesitate to name his son Eesa because it is an honored name, the name of a righteous servant of the Lord.
I never said Jesus was a good translationa, Jesus is a horrible translation (even if you make the second s silent and the J prounounced as Y). In fact, elsewhere in the Bible the same name is translated as "Joshua" which based on the old English pronouncing J as Y, would be at least closer. I have no idea why they decided to translate it as Jesus instead of Joshua, but it stuck.

Esau was not the name though. Being a common Hebrew name has nothing to do with his name - it was Yeshua not Eesau. Yeshua and Yehoshua aren't "classical" they are still applicable in modern Hebrew. Yesu is closer than Isa because Isa/Esau is a different name.

Yeshua is possibly short for Yehoshua. In the same way that "Matt" is usually short for "Matthew", but that does not necessarily mean it was Yehoshua proper.

The Iesua I think came form the Greek transliteration which in the Bible said Iēsous. This is deceptively closer to Esau but based on other Jewish records, they used Iesous to stand in for Yeshua and Yehoshua rather than Esau. So again, it was a bad transliteration from Hebrew to Greek. This is common as well even today, though. For example, the Korean names Park, Lee, and Kim are actually supposed to be Pahk (no "r"), I (as in "ee" there is no L) and Geem (the K is more of a G and the i is pronounced the "Spanish" way). We are sure of this because it mentions that his name means "Yahweh (God) saves/helps" which would be Yahoshua and in Arabic is (if you have the fonts to read this "ישוע".

The story about the Jews insulting Jesus to Muhammad and the Esau thing is only found in the Qu'ran whereas contemporaries outside the Bible in the Greek and Hebrew world never mentioned him to be called Esau.

Image
The top two are Yehoshua and the bottom is Yeshua.

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