Televangelism

[Kemosave]

Televangelism is used by various religions around the world.

Please share specifics regarding televangelism and televangelists.

[Kemosave]

Bogus Beliefs

Los Angeles Times (USA), Sep. 20, 2004, excerpted from
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/8717-.html
By William Lobdell, Times Staff Writer

Excerpts, Part 1

Pastor Paul Crouch calls it "God's economy of giving," and here is how it
works:

People who donate to Crouch's Trinity Broadcasting Network will reap financial blessings from a grateful God. The more they give TBN, the more he will give them. Being broke or in debt is no excuse not to write a check. In fact, it's an ideal opportunity. For God is especially generous to those who give when they can least afford it.

"He'll give you thousands, hundreds of thousands," Crouch told his viewers during a telethon last November. "He'll give millions and billions of dollars."

Crouch has used a doctrine called the "prosperity gospel" to underwrite a worldwide broadcasting network and a life of luxury for himself and his family . . . . TBN collects more than $120 million a year from viewers of its Christian programming < more than any other TV ministry . . . . The network's donors also help fund generous salaries for Crouch ($403,700 a year) and his wife, Jan ($361,000), and an array of perks, including a TBN-owned jet and 30 homes across the country, among them a pair of Newport Beach mansions and a ranch in Texas.

The prosperity gospel is rooted in the idea that God wants Christians to prosper and that believers have the right to ask him for financial gifts. TBN has woven this notion into its round-the-clock programming as well as the thousands of fund-raising letters it mails every day.

During one telethon, Crouch, 70, told viewers that if they did their part to advance the Kingdom of God < such as by donating money to TBN < they should not be shy about asking God for a reward.

"If my heart really, honestly desires a nice Cadillac S would there be something terribly wrong with me saying, 'Lord, it is the desire of my heart to have a nice car S and I'll use it for your glory?' " Crouch asked. "I think I could do that and in time, as I walked in obedience with God, I believe I'd have it."

TBN viewers are told that if they don't reap a windfall despite their donations, they must be doing something to "block God's blessing" -- most likely, not giving enough.

Crouch has particularly stern words for those who are not giving at all: "If you have been healed or saved or blessed through TBN and have not contributed . . . you are robbing God and will lose your reward in heaven," he said during a 1997 telecast.

A central element of the prosperity gospel is that no one is too poor or too indebted to donate. Bishop Clarence McClendon, a preacher whose how "Take It By Force" appears on TBN, told viewers in March that God had asked him to deliver a message to those in financial difficulty:

They should "sow a seed" by using their credit cards to make donations. In return, the Lord would see to it that the balances would be paid off within 30 days.

"Get Jesus on that credit card!" McClendon said....

[Kemosave]

I heard today on KFI AM radio that a Christian watch group is calling for the Crouch's to step down and for the board of directors of TBN to be replaced due to the extravagant excesses in all areas.

I couldn't agree more. I am an authentic Christian man and I turn on TBN and 95% of what I see needs to go (as in yesterday) and be replaced by authentic doctrine, accurate Biblical/Church history, rightous apologetics, and shows that reach the needs of real people like the old "Vulture on my veins" series Teen Challenge used to do in New York City where they reached out to drug addicts and their families. The moneychangers in the temple extravagance needs to end immediately and be replaced by true ministry.

[Lonewolf]

What is true Ministry ?

[Panik]

yeah, my homie used to have a summer job at TBN in the 90's and he used to say that old lady on TV would scream bloody murder at the employees, evne the minors like my homie. Used to cuss them out call them faggots and mf'ers. Thought that was pretty funnny. As soon as the camera is on she sure is sweet.

[Kemosave]

What is true Ministry ?

To the regenerate Christian, Jesus's life IS the example of true ministry. One aspect would be in how you live your life lonewolf. You've got a Bible there. Pick it up and start reading the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and begin learning how Jesus lived his life and ministered.

[Kemosave]

yeah, my homie used to have a summer job at TBN in the 90's and he used to say that old lady on TV would scream bloody murder at the employees, evne the minors like my homie. Used to cuss them out call them faggots and mf'ers. Thought that was pretty funnny. As soon as the camera is on she sure is sweet.

Really! Wow! I'm not surprised though. And that's not funny that's S I C K.

[Lonewolf]

What is true Ministry ?

To the regenerate Christian, Jesus's life IS the example of true ministry. One aspect would be in how you live your life lonewolf. You've got a Bible there. Pick it up and start reading the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and begin learning how Jesus lived his life and ministered.

kIMO, "I LOVE THE WORD", got it in both languages and IN MY HEART, I've been to bible college and have done missionary work in Mexico.
I have spend time in an orphanage and have helped build churches.
I am by far the model Christian. I have fallen away from the participation, but HE has kept HIS word remaining faithful to me and continues HIS teachings, but having witnessed a lot of the world-ways in the congregations and the so many wolves among the sheep, I ask the question - WHAT IS TRUE MINISTRY ? Break it down as to what you feel, in order for those that bunch all Christians in the same boat can understand the difference between a hipocrite and a true diciple, between a wolf in sheep clothing and THE LAMB of GOD.

[Kemosave]

That's great lonewolf. Check out the new Urban Training Center Victory Outreach built in TJ last year. Good stuff. They are waiting for you . And I'll make a point of breaking it down in a future thread. Peace.

[Kemosave]

By the way what is your views on Islamic state run or highly mandated (they put you in prison if you say the wrong thing or slip) television stations and Islamic theocracy evangelistic efforts that exist in the world today?

[Lonewolf]

By the way what is your views on Islamic state run or highly mandated (they put you in prison if you say the wrong thing or slip) television stations and Islamic theocracy evangelistic efforts that exist in the world today?

My I.Q. is low you know LOL, I'm not sure that I understand the question.
I deal with a lot of people from the mid-east in my line of work, and in converssations with the ones whom fled Iran (which is a Fundamental Islamic State), they all pretty much sing the same song about Iran not being as hardcore as it made to be in the news and t.v., they will tell you that the black market is ripe with rock and pop music, that their women are very liberal compared to places like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. They will tell you that when harsh punishment for crimes is dealt out, it is with a foreigner or because someone in high place had it in for you, but for the majority of the population is just like any other country, the poor get no justice while the rich have their way. In regards to Islam religion, they are for the most all beleivers that comply with the regular rites like prayer and charity but that is all, not no hardcore militant religious attitute, they are practicing Muslims in their country, just like per say practicing Catholics are in Mexico.
All that aside, it is more the political conflict that gets the most notoriety in the sense that tolerant views about the west "in the open" forums are not taken without real threats and violence, however underneath it all, lies a population that is more westernized and more eager for relations to be re-established with the U.S. than others in the middle east.

[Kemosave]

Mr. Badge.. err lonewolf.. lol.. the question is really about how Islamic theocracy's control religious programming in their countries. Speak on Saudi Arabia.

[project blowed]

now i know this might not deal with islamic theocracy and programming but it does focus on an entity existing today known as the "religious police" in saudi arabia and places such as pakistan...these are just two of probably many instances of where many Christians (both protestant and catholic) are being persecuted by these muslim inluences - which i have no doubt are due to islamic television and propoganda.

read on..

ARTICLE 1

(charismanow.com, 2004)
Persecution Watch

Pakistan
A Christian imprisoned on blasphemy charges recently died after a Muslim policeman beat him into a coma. Samuel Masih died May 28 from severe head injuries inflicted by Faryad Ali, who reportedly declared that he "wanted to earn a place in paradise" for killing the Christian, Compass Direct reported.

Four days earlier, Ali entered a Lahore hospital ward where Masih was being treated for tuberculosis and attacked the prisoner, despite a policeman on duty near Masih's bed.

Jailed in August on accusations that he had desecrated a local mosque, Masih, 32, worked as a painter before his arrest. Masih's family has denied the charges against him, Christian Solidarity Worldwide said.

Ali, who is his 20s, was arrested and booked on murder charges, Compass reported. Ali reportedly told investigators that it was "his religious duty, as a Muslim, to kill the Christian man." He said he was "spiritually satisfied and ready to face the consequences," Voice of the Martyrs (VOM) said.

"This is another example of the danger our brothers and sisters in Pakistan face every day," VOM spokesman Todd Nettleton said in a statement to Assist News Service.

Masih's death came only weeks after another Christian, Javed Anjum, a 23-year-old resident of Toba Tek Singh District, died as a result of torture by Islamic militants. Meanwhile, Christian leaders in Quetta, located in the Baluchistan Province, have received threatening letters. One pastor, Wilson Fazal, was kidnapped and tortured, but was able to escape.

Meanwhile, Anwar Masih, a 30-year-old Christian jailed in Lahore, on what many believe to be a trumped up blasphemy charge, was released on bail on June 4, Assist News Service reported. He is not related to Samuel Masih.

"This is a great success and triumph for Anwar," said Ann Buwalda of Jubilee Campaign USA. "Until 1999, no one accused of blasphemy could get bail, and it still takes great legal maneuvering to convince a judge to grant bail pending the outcome of the case."


ARTICLE II

charismanow.org, 2004

Persecution Watch

Saudi Arabia
An Indian national abducted and tortured by religious police for "spreading Christianity" remains jailed without trial weeks after his detention. Brian Savio O'Connor, 36, was accosted in the Mursalat district of Riyadh on March 25 by four policemen, Compass Direct reported.

After discovering that O'Connor was a Christian, they beat him for seven hours. In response to questions, O'Connor admitted that he did preach the Bible, but denied converting Muslims to Christianity. Authorities then charged him with preaching Christianity, selling liquor and peddling drugs.

An airline cargo agent for the last six years, O'Connor currently shares a windowless cell with 16 other inmates at Riyadh's Al-Hair Prison. At least two of his cellmates have come to faith in Christ during his imprisonment and others have reportedly asked him to pray for them.

The All India Catholic Union, the Indian Bishops' Conference and officials of the Indian Embassy have filed appeals to authorities on O'Connor's behalf, but their inquiries have gone unanswered, Compass reported.

According to O'Connor's older brother, Raymond, who lives in India, the Indian Embassy in Riyadh told him: "Everything is in the hands of the Saudis. We cannot do anything."

[Lonewolf]

Mr. Badge.. err lonewolf.. lol.. the question is really about how Islamic theocracy's control religious programming in their countries. Speak on Saudi Arabia.

LOL I DO BELEIVE THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE KORAN, THERE IS THE TEACHING CONCERNING THE INFIDELS (CHRISTIANS, JEWS AND OTHERS), THAT IF YOU CAN'T CONVERT THEM, THEN BEHEAD THEM.
NOW WETHER IT IS ISLAMIC THEOCRACY EVANGELISM RUNNED STATE OR A ONE PARTY/FAMILY RUNNED STATE I SEE NO DIFFERENCE, THE PUNISHMENT EXECUTED IS ONE IN KEEPING A CONTROL OVER THE AFFAIRS OF THE STATE BUT SUGAR COATED UNDER RELIGIOUS FERVOR AND MANIPULATED AS AS SUCH.

[Lonewolf]

I PUT TOGETHER THE FOLLOWING IN ORDER TO SHED MORE LIGHT ON THE ISSUE.

The West is a decaying society on its way to extinction, and is the source of past and present misfortunes of the Muslim world. Western civilization is presented in a state of cultural and religious decline, the symptoms of which are the absence of spirituality, the practice of adultery, and the large number of suicides in Western society. The West is also blamed for desiring world domination and targeting the Muslim world by aggressively promoting Western practices, ideologies, and lifestyle habits among Muslim society. In addition, Saudi school children are taught to reject all notions of Western democracy.

The Jews are a wicked nation, characterized by bribery, slyness, deception, and aggressiveness. According to the Saudi schoolbooks, the present Jewish occupation of Palestine constitutes a danger to the neighboring Muslim countries. Zionism is presented as an evil movement, based on ancient Jewish notions.

Christians and Jews are denounced as infidels. Christians and Jews are presented as enemies of Islam and of Muslims. Therefore, Muslims may not befriend them nor emulate them in any way, lest that lead to love and friendship, which is forbidden.

Law of the Land: Secretive Politics

Not perfect silence. In Saudi Arabia's capital Riyadh there is also the din of traffic plying its way around a ribbon of highways that would not be out of place in a new conurbation in the American Sunbelt

• It is forbidden, or haram, to go to the movies.
• It is haram to listen to music.
• It is haram for unmarried men and women to meet in public.
• It is, of course, haram to drink alcohol.
• Inside Riyadh's city limits it is even haram to go to coffee houses and smoke the traditional Arab water pipe.

But at the outskirts of Riyadh, where the First World stops and the desert resumes, you can find places to relax with sheesha and a non-alcoholic beverage of your choice and try to join in a conversation with ordinary Saudis. The Dana Coffee House is one such place. Out under the stars, it's a little man-made oasis. Around a shallow pool of water and on parched grass underneath date palm trees are dozens of television sets perched on little tables. Some of the TVs are tuned to soccer from Europe, and football from the U.S. But most of the men here, sitting in little groups of three and four, are watching all the things that are haram: scantily clad Arab women singing love songs on the Lebanese Broadcasting Channel or Egyptian movies from the 1950s with Omar Sharif seducing lovely, young, Western-dressed Arab girls.

Not much to do here but talk, a favorite -- and perhaps the only -- Saudi pastime. Politics and religion (in Saudi Arabia inseparable topics) dominate many conversations,

It makes life in the Kingdom of the House of Saud more tense than it has ever been.

Since uniting most of the Arabian Peninsula by the sword in the first third of the 20th century, the House of Saud has ruled the nation as an absolute, feudal monarchy.

Political legitimacy is conveyed to the family by its close relationship with the leaders of the Wahabbi sect of Islam.

It's hard to imagine a society where religion is taken more seriously, except maybe Afghanistan under the Taliban, and Afghanistan doesn't have the money with which to buy modernity.
Nor does Afghanistan have the money to import its work force. The population of Saudi Arabia is 24 million. About 5.5 million of those people are foreign workers. They do virtually everything from sweep the streets to manage the shops to staff the hospitals
Islam is presented as the only true religion, while all other religions are presented as false. Consequently, Muslims are portrayed as superior to followers of all other religions, in both this world and the next. Islam plays the dominant role in state and society, in the judicial and educational systems, and in everyday life. Saudi Arabia assumes, in turn, a leading role in the Muslim world and sees itself as the champion of Islam.

Hatred of the West and Non-Muslims Pervasive in Official Saudi School Books
Despite Saudi government statements to the West promoting unity, friendship and tolerance, the inescapable conclusion is that this represents the position of the Saudi Arabian government."

Saudi Arabia now also finds itself at the center of the global economy. It is the source of more than a third of worldwide OPEC petroleum production, and it has the world's largest proven petroleum reserves.


"Our family has had a prominent and leading role in the politics of the Central Arabian peninsula for 300 years or so, " he says. "It's not apolitical institution, entity or party. But I hope that our family has been a positive influence in this part of the world."

A CLASH OF CULTURE AND A STRUGGLE FOR POWER - POLITICS AS USUAL
WITH RELIGION BEING USED AS THE CONTROLLING TOOL.

[Panik]

many of these rules have nothing to do with Islam though. They are just people twisting it for their own control purposes. For hundreds of years, the Islam world was much more advanced than anyone else in the world, they had no problem with technological advancement, or new ideas, or music for that matter. They just really made a complete 180 in the last hundred years or so and have gone completely backward. It has nothing to do with the Koran though, just the people who teach it. It is easy to mislead a people who are for the most part illiterate, and have no access to any written word other than the Koran.

[Lonewolf]

You know what they say "RELIGION IS THE OPIUM OF MAN", or something like that.

I practice faith with the flaws that I have, but I don't practice religion.

With the wealth that the Saudi family has but has failed to educate and distribute it to their people, and with the communication and ideas that flow in easily via tv, internet, radio, and all other means including travel and business enterprises, it has become very hard for the royal family to keep the people subjugated politically, therefore they support the radical thinking and use it to divert the attention from their own flaws onto the west, feeding the fire of the real but over exagerated culture clash.

However underlying it all, it is a power clash also with the west, because if they don't support an enimity of somekind with the west, then the fears that the west will overthrow their culture, faith, and all that goes with it, will undoubtedly put those clans now in power in a very difficult unsurvival position, kind of like the old royal families of europe after democratic and representative constitutions came to be, wich relegated the monarchies into a secondary role in power.

[Kemosave]

many of these rules have nothing to do with Islam though. They are just people twisting it for their own control purposes. For hundreds of years, the Islam world was much more advanced than anyone else in the world, they had no problem with technological advancement, or new ideas, or music for that matter. They just really made a complete 180 in the last hundred years or so and have gone completely backward. It has nothing to do with the Koran though, just the people who teach it. It is easy to mislead a people who are for the most part illiterate, and have no access to any written word other than the Koran.

I disagree. It does have something to do with what the Koran says and not just a "recent interpretation" of it. I agree with you about the illteracy and generational points however.

[Lonewolf]

The Koran, the Bible, the Torah, or any other spiritual book or books ever written can be mis-used and interpreted differently by man. The fact remains that wether it be Christianity in the inquisition days, Jews under the umbrella of zionism, Islam under the Saudis or ayathollas or talibans, have all used religion in conjuction with political power in order to subjugate the masses and steer them into compliance for the benefit of the ruling classes, that is how it was then, and that is how it is now. All fail to grasp the message and take the teachings out of their perspective eras and purposes for which they were written. We tend to read these books with modern day eyes and rationale, and that is a big mistake. We attach them to political world feuds of which nothing but distrust and hatred comes out of it, we don't take the time to understand the minds of those that practice something different than us, so we take whatever the rulers and those false teachers supported by their political cronies dish out as the acrtual religious teachings of the fore-prophets. We need to understand the underlying message written in the books about the ALMIGHTY and HIS WORD to creation. Many will deny HIM, but some will beleive and be transformed unto new living souls.

[Kemosave]

lonewolf are the rationalization king? As far as I can tell that partly defines you no? Let's see the Christian dope smoking pro gang law enforcement divided loyalty guy? Weird man. I'm leaving on my world tour so unfortunately won't be around to properly address/correct the misinformation. Out. Peace.

[Lonewolf]

lonewolf are the rationalization king? As far as I can tell that partly defines you no? Let's see the Christian dope smoking pro gang law enforcement divided loyalty guy? Weird man. I'm leaving on my world tour so unfortunately won't be around to properly address/correct the misinformation. Out. Peace.

No corrections, you got it right, I never said that I was perfect, I got a low I.Q. remember.

Christian - I try, and I stumble all the time - FAITH NOT WORKS !
Smokin' - Only the natural herbs, and just for kick back relaxation.
Gang - That is in my past, but I keep some ties - no more crazyness sir.
Law Enforcement - It's a job and it pays the bills while I do my share.
Divided Loyalty - Not at all, you said that not me. I know where I stand.

Now whats up what all this Kimo ?

Seems like you have more of an issue with my life than I do

[Kemosave]

Well I'm not heading out till the weekend it looks like. Anyways, not dissing you lonewolf just challenging you. I think the weed is a serious hangup for an authentic serious Christian to have in my observations. I'm not going to gloss that over bro. I've been all over and met a world of people from all walks of life. I know the difference between a Christian man that smokes dope and one who has been delivered from it. Rationalize it anyway you like but it's holding you back and holding back your spiritual growth. You're in a false comfort zone with that.

[Lonewolf]

True at that Kimo, I won't deny it nor defend that position as to a true Christian. But I will not allow you to be the judge, for only the LORD is true and perfect, and to HIM is the power.
You said it before in another topic not to flip out because we're only discussing, 10-4.

[Kemosave]

No hard feelings here. Just stating my views and that's internal conflict right there if you know what I mean. I know you're being real though in your answer. Peace.