What is the true Church?

[stoked18]

I am Catholic, but i do question a lot. Is Judaism the true religion? In the bible, it says that Jesus was the king of the Jews and Jews are the chosen people of God. So whoever follows the Bible, isn't it telling us that to be Jewish is the way to go?

[MMRbkaRudog]

You were just on here claiming you knew & now you're doubting? Sounds like you don't even believe in the new testament now.

[stoked18]

No, I said that the Catholic Church I believe is the true CHRISTIAN Church.Out of all the different Christian denominations.

[stoked18]

Who knows though man, religion can be crazy. For real for real though, only time we will know for sure about all our questions is when we die. Then we will find out what church was true and what happens in the afterlife, if there even is one. I think even the most devout people have doubts at times.I'm not an ultra devoted Catholic by far. I've done dirt,went to prison, had unprotected sex and used contraceptives, which the Catholic Church is totally against. I"ve always believed that that is the Church for me and hopefully one day I'll get my act together and devote more time to religion. Hey, I've already started to make a change. I graduate school in 15 days with a welding certificate. I'm 28 years old, but I guess it's better late than never huh? Got kicked outta school in the middle of my senior year, got kicked out of the Navy, killed someone while I was driving and got charged with manslaughter(thank god it got dropped down to reckless driving), and then went to prison for having a firearm while being a felon. My whole life has been a waste of time up until now. Finally straightened up at almost 30 years old. Maybe a more Christian life would do me some good, I think it's about time

[femun]

Do you think you can live the strait life without religeon?

[MMRbkaRudog]

I see what you mean. Just thought you meant it was the true church period. Never been the most devouted person, but I've had doubts as much as I believe. A lot of people don't understand that it's pre-marital sex that is what the church is against & if you're at a point in marriage to where it seems you are totally ready to have a kid, then it doesn't make sense to use contraceptive. I remember the pope saying it made sense for someone to use a contraceptive in an example he gave, but he wasn't condoning it like some said he was. Somebody always has to make a smart ass remark.

You're almost as old as me. I've barely been getting my life together myself & I've been thru similar things. I'm going to just bring up how I some how got convicted of reckless driving, but at some point after that I had a lot of time to think & a priest gave me something to think about. I ended up deciding that I wanted to be more than a cultural Catholic. It wasn't easy & it still isn't, but at times I looked like a devouted man.

[stoked18]

Oops you're right, that didn't even make sense, I said the Church was against unprotected sex. The Church wants you to have unprotected sex and not use contraceptives. Sorry about that. Anyways, I've just always made stupid decisions in life. I think it all started growing up in San Diego. I love my friends to death, but some of the people I chose to hang around weren't necessarily the best crowd in the world. I remember my mom always getting on me about the people I hung around with, and of course it went in one ear and out the other. My mom told me later on after we moved out here that at one point I was so out of control, that the Navy was gonna let her leave early because they saw how stressed out she always was. That makes me feel like shit. See, my whole family is career Navy and Marine Corps, and I mean everybody. Dad's side of the family and mom's. So it was already hard enough. Plus I had this dick-head step-dad at the time who was from Watts, and he was always ragging on my friends. I guess now I kinda understand why, where he grew up, he knew what hanging around certain people could get you. Other than that though, that dude fucking tormented the hell out of me growing up. I'm glad my mom finally got away from that dude. That dude was so bad, that even my friends offered to whoop his ass. Anyways, I'm talking about stupid shit now. I think the only good thing about moving out here to VA is that I've finally gotten my act together. Got into a little bit of trouble in the beginning, but shit is cool now. But back to the religion topic, I think it would do me some good. Something good and decent to believe in. I was baptized a Catholic and raised Catholic, but never really attended church or was even interested in it until I started learning more about it. Just gotta have time to go. RuDog, you're cool man, I like you.

[noname20]

The true church is your physical Body not a building, but the most high wants to dwell in you not some man made building

[alexalonso]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

[MMRbkaRudog]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

EVERYBODY GOT THEIR OWN OPINION. OBVIOSULY MINE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS, BECAUSE IN MY RELIGION YOU AREN'T REAL UNLESS YOU'RE CATHOLIC. I DON'T SEE HOW YOU WOULD NOT BE REAL BY FOLLOWING IN THE FOOT STEPS OF SOMEONE LIKE ST. PETER, WHO WAS THE 1ST POPE. ALSO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE A REAL BIBLE BELIEVER AND NOT BELEIVE IN THE TRINITY, WHICH IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE (THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE TRINITY). I DON'T SEE HOW WORSHIPPING GOD ON DECEMBER 25TH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IF A CHURCH SPENDS A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD SOMETHING USEFUL FOR THE YOUTH, THEN I THINK THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY WISELY (THIS IS SG ISN'T IT?).

[alexalonso]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

EVERYBODY GOT THEIR OWN OPINION. OBVIOSULY MINE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS, BECAUSE IN MY RELIGION YOU AREN'T REAL UNLESS YOU'RE CATHOLIC. I DON'T SEE HOW YOU WOULD NOT BE REAL BY FOLLOWING IN THE FOOT STEPS OF SOMEONE LIKE ST. PETER, WHO WAS THE 1ST POPE. ALSO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE A REAL BIBLE BELIEVER AND NOT BELEIVE IN THE TRINITY, WHICH IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE (THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE TRINITY). I DON'T SEE HOW WORSHIPPING GOD ON DECEMBER 25TH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IF A CHURCH SPENDS A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD SOMETHING USEFUL FOR THE YOUTH, THEN I THINK THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY WISELY (THIS IS SG ISN'T IT?).

Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but "THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT" is mentioned in ONE scripture in Matthew. Other than that there is no trinity teaching, doctrine or evidence that anyone taught that the three are one. The one scripture, if you read it thoroughly does not promote a trinity, and I promise that Jesus and God the father are not the same person.

[MMRbkaRudog]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

EVERYBODY GOT THEIR OWN OPINION. OBVIOSULY MINE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS, BECAUSE IN MY RELIGION YOU AREN'T REAL UNLESS YOU'RE CATHOLIC. I DON'T SEE HOW YOU WOULD NOT BE REAL BY FOLLOWING IN THE FOOT STEPS OF SOMEONE LIKE ST. PETER, WHO WAS THE 1ST POPE. ALSO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE A REAL BIBLE BELIEVER AND NOT BELEIVE IN THE TRINITY, WHICH IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE (THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE TRINITY). I DON'T SEE HOW WORSHIPPING GOD ON DECEMBER 25TH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IF A CHURCH SPENDS A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD SOMETHING USEFUL FOR THE YOUTH, THEN I THINK THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY WISELY (THIS IS SG ISN'T IT?).

Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but "THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT" is mentioned in ONE scripture in Matthew. Other than that there is no trinity teaching, doctrine or evidence that anyone taught that the three are one. The one scripture, if you read it thoroughly does not promote a trinity, and I promise that Jesus and God the father are not the same person.

THAT'S WHAT THE TRINITY IS. IS THERE EVIDENCE THE 3 ARE DIFFERENT? I'D RATHER NOT GET INTO, SO DON'T EVEN ANSWER THAT. LET'S JUST GO WITH THE FACT WE BELIEVE IN PROMISES DIFFERENTLY.

[alexalonso]

If you believe that Jesus and Jehovah God are the same person, then you are ignoring the hundred scriptures that clearly make a distinction between the two, and in the 9th Chapter of Proverbs it clearly shows that Jesus has a begining, he was created, where Jehovah God has always been. Jesus is a Mighty God, but Jehovah is Allmighty God.

So God sent himself to earth? I know is capable of anything, but God is an orderly God and there is practicality and ration to everything thing he has done in history. God and Jesus the same makes absolutely no sense, and those that believe it, always harp on ONE scripture in the bible.

On another note, who believes that the POPE is infallible?

Most religions on the earth are all false religions.

[TarHeelRED]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

EVERYBODY GOT THEIR OWN OPINION. OBVIOSULY MINE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS, BECAUSE IN MY RELIGION YOU AREN'T REAL UNLESS YOU'RE CATHOLIC. I DON'T SEE HOW YOU WOULD NOT BE REAL BY FOLLOWING IN THE FOOT STEPS OF SOMEONE LIKE ST. PETER, WHO WAS THE 1ST POPE. ALSO I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE A REAL BIBLE BELIEVER AND NOT BELEIVE IN THE TRINITY, WHICH IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE (THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE TRINITY). I DON'T SEE HOW WORSHIPPING GOD ON DECEMBER 25TH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IF A CHURCH SPENDS A MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD SOMETHING USEFUL FOR THE YOUTH, THEN I THINK THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY WISELY (THIS IS SG ISN'T IT?).

Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but "THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT" is mentioned in ONE scripture in Matthew. Other than that there is no trinity teaching, doctrine or evidence that anyone taught that the three are one. The one scripture, if you read it thoroughly does not promote a trinity, and I promise that Jesus and God the father are not the same person.

Alonso, true the word 'Trinity' isn't in the Scripture but the doctrine, teaching, and evidence is clearly there. I prefer 2 call the 1 God who exists as 3 distinct, Eternal, & co-equal Persons 'The Godhead'. The word Jehovah's Witnesses isn't in the Bible but there are millions on this earth who believe they are. BUT the word 'Christians' is (Acts 11:26)!! Why did the Russelite 'organization' deviate from the Scriptures and 'create or invent' their own tradition- u know, like Christmas, worshiping saints, the pope, & etc.?

Right back at u homes.

Oh yeah, u did get 1 thing right- "Jesus and God the Father are not the same person." Some hold 2 the nontrinitarian belief in the deity of God as Father, Son, & Spirit- that God can become 1 of the 3 at anytime but not all 3 simultaneously . This is a heresy known as modalism.

[TarHeelRED]

The true church is an organization that believes that 1) Jesus was a real person sent my Allmighty God & 2) that follows the Biblical scriptures as close as possible, making changes and modifications along the way to correct past mistakes.

- you cant be real if you are following and worshiping Saints
- if you follow the Pope
- if you are practicing polygamy or ever tried to justify it
- believes in a Trinity, no diciples ever taught it, Jesus never taught it, it's not in the Bible and was not created until the 4 Century)
- if you believe in Christmas and incorporate that into any form of worship - not acceptable
- if singing and dancing is the majority of what goes on in your church, then that's a no brainer
- if the preacher, priest, or minister if homosexual while preaching that as a sin, then find another church
- If your church is protecting and hiding known pedaphiles you can easily leave that church
- if your church is preaching a race superiority concept whether that is White or Black it is still racist and definitely not Godly
- if your church preaches from a multi-million dollar facility - they are spending their money unwisely
- If everything costs money from tapes, literature or flyers - they are greedy
- if you have to get patted down for weapons then God's spirit is definitely not there
- if the message is not a global one but a regional or ethnocentric one - it is not true
- if there is no recourse for continual immoral behavior that's not a true belief system
-

What about an 'organization' who claims that the resurrection of Jesus wasn't bodily or that the Messiah didn't rise bodily from the dead on the 3rd day, or that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel?? Or that there is no hell, u have 2 work for and earn your salvation but u can also lose it, and that salvation is not the free gift of God by His grace (faith + works)??????? U 4got 2 put that on your list Alonzo.

[TarHeelRED]

WHAT IS THE TRUE CHURCH?
Ephesians 1:22-23, "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." The real Church is simply the literal body of Jesus the Messiah. Also, "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Ephesians 5:29-30). Again the real Church is the body of Messiah. In the last verse, the "we" that are "members" are believers!!

How do true believers become "members" of the "body" of Messiah? Take your Bibles and turn to I Corinthians 12:13, 27 : "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" and "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." If u notice, these 2 verses uses the same language as the 2 verses in chpt. 1 vss. 22-23 of the same book. The Holy Spirit literally baptizes or places the believer into the body of Jesus the Messiah! THIS IS THE REAL BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! This is why a believer cannot lose his or her salvation. If we were 2 go 2 hell (yes a literal place) Jesus would also have 2 come.

The real question question should be though, how do u become a member of the real Church, now that we know what the Church really is:
(1) This is accomplished by TRUSTING or placing FAITH ALONE in the death, burial, & resurrection (*bodily) of Jesus the Messiah- Who paid our sin debt in full- as thee only means of becoming saved and making it 2 heaven. This is known as the Gospel- the good news message of the death, burial, & resurection of Messiah.
(2) Believe in God who is 1, yet who exists as 3 distinct, eternal, & co-equal Persons. This fact of God is clearly and undeniably taught and mentioned throughout the Bible. God the Father, Jesus the Messiah- God the Son, the Son of God the Father- fully God and fully man-, and God the Holy Spirit comprise the God of the Bible.
(3) Trust that u can't lose your salvation. God saves us by His grace alone through faith w/o works and He is the One Who keeps us saved by His grace w/o our works!!! God gives us salvation NOT probation. Once u are saved then it's all about works works works! God saves us with the intention of us becoming obedient and living godly lives but not till AFTER we're saved. Continued work and obedience along with walking in the Spirit will grow us into disciples/discipleship. Discipleship once attained can be lost however because it's a continued work in the believer unlike the FINISHED work of salvation. The only condition of salvation is faith- NO ASTERISKS!!!!!! As believers we can lose fellowship w/ God but not salvation. Fellowship can be restored however once sins, trangressions, & etc. are confessed.

That's God's simple plan of salvation. Believe it and receive His free gift. Reject it and receive His eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Choose your own destiny.

If u need Scriptures as proof let me know. I will copy and paste this board with verses to death.

[MMRbkaRudog]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

[TarHeelRED]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

Stick 2 the scripts home. I said I could copy & paste Scriptures of the beliefs I was talking about (on how 2 join the True Church). I specifically answered the question on what the True Church is & added how 2 join. Come again partna. Besides my post has nothing 2 do with Catholicism!!

Are u even a moderator? If u wanna reply 2 my posts just 2 get your 'post' count up u go on ahead. But if u are going 2 try 2 call me out make sure u do it correctly & have a reason 4 doing it.

[MMRbkaRudog]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

Stick 2 the scripts home. I said I could copy & paste Scriptures of the beliefs I was talking about (on how 2 join the True Church). I specifically answered the question on what the True Church is & added how 2 join. Come again partna. Besides my post has nothing 2 do with Catholicism!!

Are u even a moderator? If u wanna reply 2 my posts just 2 get your 'post' count up u go on ahead. But if u are going 2 try 2 call me out make sure u do it correctly & have a reason 4 doing it.

OK, well thanks for your opinion. I'm just saying that it could go on & on, but this ain't really the kind of forum. I'm not a mod & I'm not trying to push up on you like 1, but things people don't seem to get is that there seems to be so many different interpretations of the scripts. That's all I was trying to say & I'm going to end it there with you. Thanks

[Sentenza]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

Stick 2 the scripts home. I said I could copy & paste Scriptures of the beliefs I was talking about (on how 2 join the True Church). I specifically answered the question on what the True Church is & added how 2 join. Come again partna. Besides my post has nothing 2 do with Catholicism!!

Are u even a moderator? If u wanna reply 2 my posts just 2 get your 'post' count up u go on ahead. But if u are going 2 try 2 call me out make sure u do it correctly & have a reason 4 doing it.

The problem is, scripture is not proof for those who dont believe. Its as far from proof as it gets.
Arguing about the true church based on scriptural proof is nonsense cause every believer will come up with his own proof that was written down.
Every church, religion, sect, branch claims to be the only true one based on their own proofs which no one but themselves came up with.
That makes it so tiring to even discuss the topic. Because its never going to end.

[TarHeelRED]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

Stick 2 the scripts home. I said I could copy & paste Scriptures of the beliefs I was talking about (on how 2 join the True Church). I specifically answered the question on what the True Church is & added how 2 join. Come again partna. Besides my post has nothing 2 do with Catholicism!!

Are u even a moderator? If u wanna reply 2 my posts just 2 get your 'post' count up u go on ahead. But if u are going 2 try 2 call me out make sure u do it correctly & have a reason 4 doing it.

The problem is, scripture is not proof for those who dont believe. Its as far from proof as it gets.
Arguing about the true church based on scriptural proof is nonsense cause every believer will come up with his own proof that was written down.
Every church, religion, sect, branch claims to be the only true one based on their own proofs which no one but themselves came up with.
That makes it so tiring to even discuss the topic. Because its never going to end.

Sentenza, 1st of all there is no problem!!! 2nd, who MADE u get in on this discussion? U have free will and choices like everybody else. But u made a choice 2 use your free will 2 put your 2 cents in on this conversation. The conversation can be 'ended' & 'over' 4 u and everybody else if only u don't comment or just keep your opinions 2 yourself.

4 those of us like Alonzo, MmbkaRudog, myself & others who believe that Scripture/The Holy Bible has proof and or truth 4 any idea or argument let us the 'believers' in the Scriptures (or @ least some of the Scriptures) discuss these matters!! 4 all intents & purposes this is an OPEN DISCUSSION FORUM!!! 4 y'all who don't believe or care not 2 belabor these topics just sit on the sidelines & observe or don't observe. But @ least let us exercise our 1st Amendment rights & use this DISCUSSION FORUM 4 what it's 4- DISCUSSING (or not discussing if u have no opinion, facts 2 give, or if u just choose not 2 participate/discuss a particular topic. YHVH God bless u!!!

[Sentenza]

Sentenza, 1st of all there is no problem!!! 2nd, who MADE u get in on this discussion? U have free will and choices like everybody else. But u made a choice 2 use your free will 2 put your 2 cents in on this conversation. The conversation can be 'ended' & 'over' 4 u and everybody else if only u don't comment or just keep your opinions 2 yourself.

4 those of us like Alonzo, MmbkaRudog, myself & others who believe that Scripture/The Holy Bible has proof and or truth 4 any idea or argument let us the 'believers' in the Scriptures (or @ least some of the Scriptures) discuss these matters!! 4 all intents & purposes this is an OPEN DISCUSSION FORUM!!! 4 y'all who don't believe or care not 2 belabor these topics just sit on the sidelines & observe or don't observe. But @ least let us exercise our 1st Amendment rights & use this DISCUSSION FORUM 4 what it's 4- DISCUSSING (or not discussing if u have no opinion, facts 2 give, or if u just choose not 2 participate/discuss a particular topic. YHVH God bless u!!!

I think you got me wrong. I didnt want to stop this discussion, thats not why i jumped in. I am myself interested in all topics related to religion, but i think they dont offer any "proof". Solace, purpose, inner peace...? Ok, but no proof.
Its not proof because it was written. To you its proof because you believe it is. And thats your right. But it is impossible to refute other beliefs based on scriptural "proof" taken from holy texts.
Saying it is proof because it was written is circular reasoning and anything can be proven like that.

I could say: Scientology is right, because it was written in the Dianetics.

Therefore in my eyes there is no true church.

[EmperorPenguin]

Sentenza, 1st of all there is no problem!!! 2nd, who MADE u get in on this discussion? U have free will and choices like everybody else. But u made a choice 2 use your free will 2 put your 2 cents in on this conversation. The conversation can be 'ended' & 'over' 4 u and everybody else if only u don't comment or just keep your opinions 2 yourself.

4 those of us like Alonzo, MmbkaRudog, myself & others who believe that Scripture/The Holy Bible has proof and or truth 4 any idea or argument let us the 'believers' in the Scriptures (or @ least some of the Scriptures) discuss these matters!! 4 all intents & purposes this is an OPEN DISCUSSION FORUM!!! 4 y'all who don't believe or care not 2 belabor these topics just sit on the sidelines & observe or don't observe. But @ least let us exercise our 1st Amendment rights & use this DISCUSSION FORUM 4 what it's 4- DISCUSSING (or not discussing if u have no opinion, facts 2 give, or if u just choose not 2 participate/discuss a particular topic. YHVH God bless u!!!

I think you got me wrong. I didnt want to stop this discussion, thats not why i jumped in. I am myself interested in all topics related to religion, but i think they dont offer any "proof". Solace, purpose, inner peace...? Ok, but no proof.
Its not proof because it was written. To you its proof because you believe it is. And thats your right. But it is impossible to refute other beliefs based on scriptural "proof" taken from holy texts.
Saying it is proof because it was written is circular reasoning and anything can be proven like that.

I could say: Scientology is right, because it was written in the Dianetics.

Therefore in my eyes there is no true church.

Correct, because there is no proof that any one religion or denomination is true there is no way to prove a true church.

[TarHeelRED]

Sentenza, 1st of all there is no problem!!! 2nd, who MADE u get in on this discussion? U have free will and choices like everybody else. But u made a choice 2 use your free will 2 put your 2 cents in on this conversation. The conversation can be 'ended' & 'over' 4 u and everybody else if only u don't comment or just keep your opinions 2 yourself.

4 those of us like Alonzo, MmbkaRudog, myself & others who believe that Scripture/The Holy Bible has proof and or truth 4 any idea or argument let us the 'believers' in the Scriptures (or @ least some of the Scriptures) discuss these matters!! 4 all intents & purposes this is an OPEN DISCUSSION FORUM!!! 4 y'all who don't believe or care not 2 belabor these topics just sit on the sidelines & observe or don't observe. But @ least let us exercise our 1st Amendment rights & use this DISCUSSION FORUM 4 what it's 4- DISCUSSING (or not discussing if u have no opinion, facts 2 give, or if u just choose not 2 participate/discuss a particular topic. YHVH God bless u!!!

I think you got me wrong. I didnt want to stop this discussion, thats not why i jumped in. I am myself interested in all topics related to religion, but i think they dont offer any "proof". Solace, purpose, inner peace...? Ok, but no proof.
Its not proof because it was written. To you its proof because you believe it is. And thats your right. But it is impossible to refute other beliefs based on scriptural "proof" taken from holy texts.
Saying it is proof because it was written is circular reasoning and anything can be proven like that.

I could say: Scientology is right, because it was written in the Dianetics.

Therefore in my eyes there is no true church.

Correct, because there is no proof that any one religion or denomination is true there is no way to prove a true church.

Why because u & Sentenza say it ain't? LOL!! U guys are laughable. As a flea on the back of a dog who can't see beyond the area where it resides let alone the very dog it's on & proclaims so loudly and dogmatically there is no dog, so are y'all!!!!

Jesus told us about the Church in Matthew in 16:18......... but wait the Bible isn't true and Jesus never existed as y'all say!!

If u form preconceived notions about something and hold the premise that it ain't true, real, or exists because u don't want it, HIM, him, her, etc. 2 be then it/Him won't be- i.e of course only 2 u & those who think, believe, or disbelieve like u.

Atheists & agnostics say there is no God or there may be no God: Theists say there is!!! GOD KNOWS!!!!!!! LOL!!!

[Sentenza]

Why because u & Sentenza say it ain't? LOL!! U guys are laughable. As a flea on the back of a dog who can't see beyond the area where it resides let alone the very dog it's on & proclaims so loudly and dogmatically there is no dog, so are y'all!!!!

So it should be very easy to prove that this "dog" is there. Because you claim to know its there (of course the dog is just a metaphor) and it can be proven which way to worship it is right. If you know it, well, prove it then. Without scripture.

Jesus told us about the Church in Matthew in 16:18......... but wait the Bible isn't true and Jesus never existed as y'all say!!

You know the catholics and the orthodox (and so on) will see it different and will come up with their own interpretation which is "completely convincing proof" to the,

If u form preconceived notions about something and hold the premise that it ain't true, real, or exists because u don't want it, HIM, him, her, etc. 2 be then it/Him won't be- i.e of course only 2 u & those who think, believe, or disbelieve like u.

You are the one using circular reasoning. You say if someone disagrees with what you believe in or claim to have proof for he doesnt WANT to see the truth. It cant be any other way to you. And whoever doesnt want to see the truth, disagrees with you.
There is no angle from which a person who sees things this way can be discussed with or is actually open to critically reflect on anything.

Atheists & agnostics say there is no God or there may be no God: Theists say there is!!! GOD KNOWS!!!!!!! LOL!!!

How do you know? You just believe, without any proof.
And how do you know what i believe in?

[EmperorPenguin]

Why because u & Sentenza say it ain't? LOL!! U guys are laughable. As a flea on the back of a dog who can't see beyond the area where it resides let alone the very dog it's on & proclaims so loudly and dogmatically there is no dog, so are y'all!!!!

So it should be very easy to prove that this "dog" is there. Because you claim to know its there (of course the dog is just a metaphor) and it can be proven which way to worship it is right. If you know it, well, prove it then. Without scripture.

Jesus told us about the Church in Matthew in 16:18......... but wait the Bible isn't true and Jesus never existed as y'all say!!

You know the catholics and the orthodox (and so on) will see it different and will come up with their own interpretation which is "completely convincing proof" to the,

If u form preconceived notions about something and hold the premise that it ain't true, real, or exists because u don't want it, HIM, him, her, etc. 2 be then it/Him won't be- i.e of course only 2 u & those who think, believe, or disbelieve like u.

You are the one using circular reasoning. You say if someone disagrees with what you believe in or claim to have proof for he doesnt WANT to see the truth. It cant be any other way to you. And whoever doesnt want to see the truth, disagrees with you.
There is no angle from which a person who sees things this way can be discussed with or is actually open to critically reflect on anything.

Atheists & agnostics say there is no God or there may be no God: Theists say there is!!! GOD KNOWS!!!!!!! LOL!!!

How do you know? You just believe, without any proof.
And how do you know what i believe in?

I'm just quoting all this because you can say it better then I can.

At the end of the day, the onus of proof lies on the person making the claim. If one is to claim "this is the truth" then you have to follow that with PROOF. Text written in scripture from thousands of years ago is not PROOF. Faith is not PROOF. Belief is not PROOF. They are simply formed opinions. Atheists aren't saying there is no god, or there may be no god, they simply say PROVE there is a god. I've had these discussions before with all sorts of "believers" and they always end the same way. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong and that there is an all knowning, all creating being out there if it can be proven, are you willing to admit you were wrong if yours is ever disproven?

[Sentenza]

^^ I am not even an Atheist though.

[EmperorPenguin]

^^ I am not even an Atheist though.

I never said you were, I never said I was either...

[Sentenza]

^^ I am not even an Atheist though.

I never said you were, I never said I was either...

My bad.

Btw. some austrian guy went to court because he fought for his right to wear pastafarian headgear, a pasta strainer on his drivers license.
He won.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

Pastafarianism is the perfect example for how it is impossible to provide proof for any religion.

Prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesnt exist. You cant. I bet 50 bucks on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[alexalonso]

Yeah & others can copy/paste to death things that will counter some of the things you have to say here also. That's why there's the "Catholic forums" & many other religious forums.

Stick 2 the scripts home. I said I could copy & paste Scriptures of the beliefs I was talking about (on how 2 join the True Church). I specifically answered the question on what the True Church is & added how 2 join. Come again partna. Besides my post has nothing 2 do with Catholicism!!

Are u even a moderator? If u wanna reply 2 my posts just 2 get your 'post' count up u go on ahead. But if u are going 2 try 2 call me out make sure u do it correctly & have a reason 4 doing it.

The problem is, scripture is not proof for those who dont believe. Its as far from proof as it gets.
Arguing about the true church based on scriptural proof is nonsense cause every believer will come up with his own proof that was written down.
Every church, religion, sect, branch claims to be the only true one based on their own proofs which no one but themselves came up with.
That makes it so tiring to even discuss the topic. Because its never going to end.

correct, if you dont beleive in scripture, then the scriptures are irrelevant. But to all you so called Christians who do believe in the bible, it is not too difficult to know what it true teaching and false prophets. If you believe in scripture, you use the scripture to guide your worship. Catholicism is one of the easiest to expose, because there is so much they teach and do which either has nothing to do with scripture or goes against it.

[MMRbkaRudog]

^YET IT TOOK ABOUT 1500 YEARS FOR A SO-CALLED EXPOSÉ. I HONESTLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THESE DEBATES ON RELIGION ANY MORE RIGHT NOW THOUGH. NEVER COULD GET INTO IT LIKE SOME OF THESE BIBLE THUMPERS IN THE FIRST PLACE.