Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

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Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby Christina Marie » May 12th, 2014, 3:05 pm

Video at link bottom of page


A battle will soon be held in Oklahoma over a statue of Satan that a group wants to erect near the monument of the Ten Commandments on the Statehouse lawn in Oklahoma City. A group called the Satanic Temple, backed by the ACLU, is insisting that its nearly-completed statue should stand near the monument, while a spokesman for the governor bluntly said that setting up the Satanic statue on the grounds will never happen.

According to Lucien Graves, spokesman for the Satanic Temple, the sculptor working in New York has not been identified, but has been commissioned by the Satanic Temple, which has raised more than $20,000 for the project. Greaves boasted, “We’re really coming along fast.”

The bronze statue will represent the Baphomet, or Sabbatic Goat, which has been commonly thought to represent Satan for hundreds of years. To make matters more disturbing, the statue has a smiling child on each knee.

The statue was first seen publicly on Vice. The Satanic Temple is attempting to prove that Oklahoma has a double standard by refusing the Satanic statue while accepting the monument of the Ten Commandments, which the state deemed was permissible because it was donated. The Oklahoma chapter of the ACLU had sued the state over its acceptance and placement of the monument. Since the monument was erected, the state refused to give permits for other monuments.

Alex Weintz, spokesman for Gov. Mary Fallin, told Fox News, "There will never be a satanic monument on the grounds of the Oklahoma State Capitol and the suggestion that there might be is absurd."

Greaves said, “When we reach out to them and told them of our intentions, the response we got was asking for the design sketches but we never heard back from them. As soon as we are ready, we will reach back out to them.”

Brady Henderson, legal director of the Oklahoma ACLU, told FoxNews.com, “We don’t think the state should place religious artifacts on state property unless the people of the entire state agree with its message. One of the concerns is that even if you allow all faiths to place something in a public area, it quickly becomes a farce.” He supported his position by mentioning the Florida State House’s trouble after it decided to accept holiday decorations from all faiths near a manger scene. Henderson said, “What happened is that you had someone placing a festivus pole made out of beer cans and one group placing a pile of spaghetti on top of a chair. So these types of things do nothing to uplift people’s faiths and beliefs. There’s nothing served by belittling them.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... e-of-Satan


This is just clearly insane. It's official, the world has gone completely bats*it crazy

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby TarHeelRED » October 5th, 2014, 9:30 am

I don't know if the satanic ritual has been carried out as of now or what, nor do I believe these 2 events that I'm gonna speak on are related (or could they be?), but this is the same state where Jah'Keem Yisrael a professed Muslim- the media protects Muslims & their religion of peace so they'll only call him by his pre-Islamic name Alton Nolen) BEHEADED a lady at work.

In the name of 'freedom of religion' the satanists want 2 worship not the Most High God YEHOVAH, but a created being, the most wicked created being Lucifer. They stole a wafer (Eucharist) from a local Catholic church I believe, but was ordered 2 return it. Why? 2 spit on it, swear @ it, & etc. In Catholicism the Eucharist symbolizes the body of Messiah.

When the forefathers of this country fought 4 & established religious freedom it wasn't 4 Islam, Judaism, & etc. It was 4 Christianity. Just like we say 2day if a person is of a professed Christian DENOMINATION what 'religion' are u- religion meaning DENOMINATION.

Also can't 4get about the Obama administration rewriting the Constitution from freedom of religion 2 freedom of worship. God bless our secular Muslim in chief.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » October 5th, 2014, 9:36 pm

I heard that the satanists had to return the stolen host. I am catholic and yes we believe that through transubstantiation the host becomes the body of Christ. This is clearly recorded in scripture when Jesus says this is my body and this is my blood in the book of john. This is why satanists have black masses. They to know what it is! I have been racking my brain lately due to religion and freedom. This very issue was one problem that I have been thinking about. Islam and ISIS is the other. I have been reading a number of books about Islam lately and it is eye opening. They are literally told to offer Christians 3 choices. Convert, death, or pay the jizya tax and feel themselves subdued. They can't build new churches or rest or old ones. Infidels and apostates get the sword. Women captured in battle are sex slaves. Jihad is to be carried to every corner of the earth, until Islam reigns supreme. Lying or taqquia as they call it is religiously justified. This is why they say things like Isis are terrorist misinterpret trying the Koran. I think they are the ones who are the true believers. I actually question are there any moderate Muslims? To me Islam is radical but not all believers are necessarily killers. Anyhow, the reason that I bring all this up is twofold. One I want to hear from some Muslims. Is it possible to live and let live. Can we peacefully coexist? Is all this terrorism simply backlash for our perceived support of Israel's Zionist policies or is this just another chapter in a never ending jihad against the west? The second question goes out to all of us as Americans. Just how far are we willing to allow other groups to go in the name of freedom? Why beat around the bush. Why be politically correct. Why not just label certain groups as violent and disrespectful of others. After all it is what it is. You can't hide from the truth right. If this offends anyone, my bad. I am just trying to get some honest answers here and hear some different viewpoints. Silent

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby TarHeelRED » October 17th, 2014, 9:57 pm

silentwssj wrote:I heard that the satanists had to return the stolen host. I am catholic and yes we believe that through transubstantiation the host becomes the body of Christ. This is clearly recorded in scripture when Jesus says this is my body and this is my blood in the book of john.


So Jesus was telling the disciples 2 be cannibals? THAT is what the Pharisees & the religious leaders accused Jesus of amongst other things. Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.speaks of the life of the flesh being in the blood." That's the reason YHVH instructed the Hebrews 2 drain the blood from the animals they killed before consuming them.

Clearly that's not what He was saying.

We do agree about Islam though.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » October 17th, 2014, 11:16 pm

Yeah, we secretly feast on remains of our lord. I thought you knew?
TarHeelRED wrote:
silentwssj wrote:I heard that the satanists had to return the stolen host. I am catholic and yes we believe that through transubstantiation the host becomes the body of Christ. This is clearly recorded in scripture when Jesus says this is my body and this is my blood in the book of john.


So Jesus was telling the disciples 2 be cannibals? THAT is what the Pharisees & the religious leaders accused Jesus of amongst other things. Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.speaks of the life of the flesh being in the blood." That's the reason YHVH instructed the Hebrews 2 drain the blood from the animals they killed before consuming them.

Clearly that's not what He was saying.

We do agree about Islam though.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » October 17th, 2014, 11:21 pm

LOL Go ahead Silent and school this fool. I don't have the patience a lot of times for religious debates, but really a silly argument if you ask me.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » October 19th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Read john chapter 6 vs 47-71 this is the bread of life discourse. Vs 52 the Jews quarreled among themselves, saying "how can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 Jesus said to them , Amen, amen , I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Vs 60 "this saying is hard; who can accept it?" Vs 66 As a result of this many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the twelve " do you also want to leave?" Simon peter answered him, "master to whom shall we go you have the words of eternal life." If protestantism is true and the Eucharist is figurative from vs 53 and 54 onward he uses a more graphic word, Trogo from the Greek which means an animal like gnawing! Jesus surely knew that his listeners would rebel at these words, given God's injunction in the old covenant against consuming blood. They left in masse and he allowed it! He turned to his 12 disciples and asked if they to wouldeave him over this teaching. If he was using a mere figure of speech don't you think he would have clarified this? It would make no sense to drive away by leading them to believe something that he did not mean. 1 Corinthians 10:16 " the cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" So when we receive communion we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ; we do not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats judgment and drinks judgement on himself. 1 Corinthians 11:27,29. To be guilty of profaning the body and blood of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How can eating mere bread and wine unworthily be so serious? Paul's comments only make sense if the bread and wine became the real body and blood of Christ! We know that Christians believed in the true presence only because they left writings! In fact there are no writings from the early centuries that state anything other than the Catholic position on this! Hopefully this helps! Religion is a touchy subject. I have been wanting to delve into this topic for some time. I have purposefully avoided it because it is so controversial and time consuming. Also, I am working out of town so it is hard to accomplish all of this from my phone and little access to my books at home. I definitely want to mount a defense of Catholicism in its entirety on here at some point. Feel free to shoot any questions my way tarheel red. Yes, we definitely see eye to eye on Islam. I really want to discuss that religion more as well peace out , Silent!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby TarHeelRED » November 9th, 2014, 1:36 am

silentwssj wrote:Read john chapter 6 vs 47-71 this is the bread of life discourse. Vs 52 the Jews quarreled among themselves, saying "how can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 Jesus said to them , Amen, amen , I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Vs 60 "this saying is hard; who can accept it?" Vs 66 As a result of this many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the twelve " do you also want to leave?" Simon peter answered him, "master to whom shall we go you have the words of eternal life." If protestantism is true and the Eucharist is figurative from vs 53 and 54 onward he uses a more graphic word, Trogo from the Greek which means an animal like gnawing! Jesus surely knew that his listeners would rebel at these words, given God's injunction in the old covenant against consuming blood. They left in masse and he allowed it! He turned to his 12 disciples and asked if they to wouldeave him over this teaching. If he was using a mere figure of speech don't you think he would have clarified this? It would make no sense to drive away by leading them to believe something that he did not mean. 1 Corinthians 10:16 " the cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" So when we receive communion we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ; we do not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats judgment and drinks judgement on himself. 1 Corinthians 11:27,29. To be guilty of profaning the body and blood of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How can eating mere bread and wine unworthily be so serious? Paul's comments only make sense if the bread and wine became the real body and blood of Christ! We know that Christians believed in the true presence only because they left writings! In fact there are no writings from the early centuries that state anything other than the Catholic position on this! Hopefully this helps! Religion is a touchy subject. I have been wanting to delve into this topic for some time. I have purposefully avoided it because it is so controversial and time consuming. Also, I am working out of town so it is hard to accomplish all of this from my phone and little access to my books at home. I definitely want to mount a defense of Catholicism in its entirety on here at some point. Feel free to shoot any questions my way tarheel red. Yes, we definitely see eye to eye on Islam. I really want to discuss that religion more as well peace out , Silent!

Not so fast Silent, u still haven't proven me wrong and u right!!!!! In the 'Bread of Life' discourse- as u termed it- I would say it's from John 6:26-63 but that's a moot point. And I believe the key verses in this passage of Scripture is 62-63: "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."I take the Word of God literally unless the context or passage of Scripture dictates that I take it figuratively. Most of the Bible I believe should be taken literally but in this case, particularly starting with vs. 52 to 59, I believe this is figurative.

Again, u make the same mistake the religious leaders of Jesus' day made: "The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (John 6:52). Jesus clearly tells us what the bread is in vs. 51: "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Now are u going 2 tell me that the only way 2 partake of the 'life' that Messiah offers 2 every human being is by a sacrement of communion? In your doctrine where does God's grace plus faith alone in the death, burial, & resurrection of Messiah come in? Now, most Catholics don't believe that salvation is by God's grace plus faith alone in the death, burial, & resurrection of Messiah 4 salvation. The reason is being is b/c Catholicism is a WORKS based religion: do mass, penance, sacrements, alms giving, observe Lent, confessional, worship Mary, & etc. just 2 end up in purgatory for a couple hundred or thousand years after paying 4 sins or whatever it is y'all say they do down there then u go 2 heaven (maybe). I don't believe in any of that (& please don't try 2 convince me to). Y'shua said "It is FINISHED" in John 19:30. In the Greek that phrase is one word- tetelestai. Tetelestai is an accounting term which means 'paid in full; full satisfaction received 4 the debt (in this case i.e. of SIN). It was a cry of triumph! Jesus paid it all my friend. All I do is trust Him that He did it 4 me & receive as a FREE GIFT (b/c u can't earn or WORK 4 a 'gift') the 'life' i.e. everlasting/eternal that He offers the believer in vss. 47, 35, 51, & 58. Will u cease from your own labors & just trust the Savior?

Pardon the sidebar I took. Back 2 this literal figurative thing. Remember when Jesus told people 2 mutilate themselves if their body parts take part in sin in Matthew 5:28-30; 18:5-10, Mark 9:42-48? Well of course u don't b/c that's not what He was saying or meant in any of these cases. But if we use your mode of reason I shouldn't expect a reply 2 this post b/c u wouldn't have any hands 2 type or any eyes 2 see. Right??????? Context context context!!!! Let's start with Matthew 5:28. To be continued............. :P


MMRbkaRudog wrote:LOL Go ahead Silent and school this fool. I don't have the patience a lot of times for religious debates, but really a silly argument if you ask me.

U need Silent 2 speak 4 u or 2 defend why Catholicism is purported 2 be true? I can see why Silent believes in Catholicism but what about u? Is it just a tradition? Did your momma & daddy drag u 2 mass, confessionals, & etc. & told u it was true so therefore u believe it w/o examining Catholic doctrine 2 see if it conforms with the Holy Bible 4 yourself? :cry:

Why can't U school THIS fool? I don't ask anybody 4 help when I do apologetics 4 The Faith.

The truth is u don't have a factual rebuttal 2 even participate in a debate. Do u even read the Cathecism? What about the Holy Bible? Most Catholics & professed believers don't, so it wouldn't be a surprise.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby HungryWolf » November 9th, 2014, 5:11 am

silentwssj wrote:The second question goes out to all of us as Americans. Just how far are we willing to allow other groups to go in the name of freedom? Why beat around the bush. Why be politically correct. Why not just label certain groups as violent and disrespectful of others. After all it is what it is. You can't hide from the truth right.


Well, neither am I an American or can I follow your religious discussion. But you clearly made a point here. This is what I think to myself whenever I read/watch the news. This is the weakest point of Western civilization. This exactly what could break our necks. I can see the conflict rising every single day. Two years ago radical muslims led by an infamous ex-Gangster rapper attacked policemen with clubs and knives, wounded one nearly fatally. Those ppl are now down in Syria, beheading innocent ppl. And they are coming back to Germany with threads and plans to kill all "kuffars" how they label the non-muslims.
We had huge riots two weeks ago. 5000 ppl where protesting against radical islamists in Germany. The police turned against them and it ended in full fledged chaos. And our governments won't do nothing against this. Actually it is the opposite they claim. Our female and beautiful canceler just said "Islam is a part of Germany" and "We have to accept that immigrant youth are violent"? WTF???? What's going on there? Is everybody gonna sit and watch while our principles just turn against us?

Well, this is the situation here in Germany. We have 5 percent muslims in our country. US has under 1 Percent. You want a recommendation from a European? Keep it this way.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » November 9th, 2014, 10:52 am

I couldn't agree more Hungrywolf! I know it is not politically correct to say such things, but Islam is way different from other religions. They portray it as peaceful when it is not! When reading the Koran Muslims follow what is called "Abrogation". This means that whenever there is confusion or conflict in regards to behavior in conducting yourself according to sharia law you must use whichever Koran verse is latter. Most people do not know this, but the vast majority of peaceful Koran verses are at the beginning of the Koran! Most of the violent ones are at the end, so they take precedence according to abrogation! Everything ISIS is doing is directly found in the Koran! It is easy for them to misquote it and claim that Islam is peaceful because most people don't understand what "Abrogation" is and how Muslims read the Koran and apply it to Sharia law! I have been out working for a month straight. I didn't have any access to my laptop until 2 days ago. I definitely want to hit up more posts on Catholicism and Islam in the near future. I am curious to find out what people know and think about the current state of the world as it relates to Islam. Silent!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby HungryWolf » November 10th, 2014, 12:29 am

That's an interesting point. Never went so deep into Islam. I just googled the word "Abrogation" and wikipedia explains it just like you did. Most of the violent surahs are in part 5 of the koran. I my opinion the most difficult thing about islam is that there has never been remodeling like in christianity. It never secularized and that's the main point. In Western civilization we accept the government as number one and religion is privacy. That works out so good because our main rules are based on the ten commandments.

PPL WHO COME TO OUR COUNTRIES SHOULD ACCEPT THIS.

If they don't they should be forced to leave. This has nothing to do with racism, fascism or whatever you like to call it. This is for protection of freedom, democracy and our way of life. If this is political incorrect so be it. But then I have to admit that political correctness shall kiss my ass. See, islamic terrorists can feel free to live in our countries, spread their hatred against our cultures and they are happy to do whatever. If I'd go to say Teheran and would act just the same I'd be swinging by my neck in no time. I don't wanna say we should tread them the same. Big No No. But we should clearly make a point and not hesitate to stand up for ourselves. If they don't like the Western man they are free to get out.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby TarHeelRED » November 10th, 2014, 9:52 pm

HungryWolf wrote:That's an interesting point. Never went so deep into Islam. I just googled the word "Abrogation" and wikipedia explains it just like you did. Most of the violent surahs are in part 5 of the koran. I my opinion the most difficult thing about islam is that there has never been remodeling like in christianity. It never secularized and that's the main point. In Western civilization we accept the government as number one and religion is privacy. That works out so good because our main rules are based on the ten commandments.

PPL WHO COME TO OUR COUNTRIES SHOULD ACCEPT THIS.

If they don't they should be forced to leave. This has nothing to do with racism, fascism or whatever you like to call it. This is for protection of freedom, democracy and our way of life. If this is political incorrect so be it. But then I have to admit that political correctness shall kiss my ass. See, islamic terrorists can feel free to live in our countries, spread their hatred against our cultures and they are happy to do whatever. If I'd go to say Teheran and would act just the same I'd be swinging by my neck in no time. I don't wanna say we should tread them the same. Big No No. But we should clearly make a point and not hesitate to stand up for ourselves. If they don't like the Western man they are free to get out.


U guys are talking some real substantial FACTS!!

The Quran revealed 2 Muhammad by Satan or a demon wasn't in the sequential arrangement as we have it 2day. Just like it's not in the original form as it was when Muhammad's followers wrote it down b4 & after his death. The original Arabic & the first Quranic manuscripts didn't have the vowel accents. That was added years maybe decades or centuries later. Don't let Muslims tell u that it wasn't. U can look up antiquated pictures of the updates made 2 the Quran as copies of the Quran was proliferated throughout Arabia & the Muslim world.

The 1st Surah revealed 2 Muhammad was 96:1-5 when Muhammad was in the cave where he went often. http://www.islam101.com/dawah/WhatIsQuran.html

Some verses and Surahs were omitted. I think somebody wrote a book about it, maybe its called The Satanic Verses?????

Muslims are allowed 2 lie 2 advance the cause of Islam. That doctrine is called taqiyya. It was used & is used by Muhammad & other Muslims when they are the minority in a region, province, city, country, etc. Throughout the conquests of Muhammad he signed peace treaty after treaty w/ different Arabic tribes NOT 2 promote peace among them or coexist but clandestinely when he became strong enough, 2 wage war on the population and convert them. MUSLIMS DON'T ASSIMILATE, i.e. fundamental Muslims!! They come in peaceably but manipulative then the next thing u know the local McDonalds & restuarants don't serve pork but only halal food. Once this happens there's no public outcry b/c the native population are afraid of the suicide bombings & beheadings that may ensue.

Meanwhile, Barry Soetero, MBSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, & etc. constantly affirms even after murders, bombings & beheadings of infidels & Muslims even, that Islam is a religion of peace. Even though they shout "Allahu akbar" before the commission of these murders & heinous acts, they term them work place violence afterward or say their just misunderstood. But insist its the victims' and the bigoted anti-Islamists fault.

Michael Savage say's "Liberalism is a mental disease." Michael Savage is the man. No 'borders, language (english), culture" 4 Muslims except their own.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » November 10th, 2014, 10:42 pm

Hey there Hungrywolf! check out "taqiyya" and "kitman" this is religiously sanctioned lying! It is only supposed to apply to war, but then again Islam's goal is to conquer the world and impose Sharia law! They are at war with all non Muslim nations. In fact they refer to all non muslim lands as "The house of war". If you research this you will find numerous examples of religiously sanctioned lying. They routinely tell us one thing and their people another. It pays to be informed!Some Muslims say that "Jihad" is simply a spiritual struggle. I say that it is something that all Muslims strive for! Some of them carry it out peacefully, or so we think. Truth be told they are simply biding their time until they gain enough numbers to implement sharia by force! Don't be fooled! Remember they are at war with the west and all unbelievers. Some carry out Jihad violently others more subtlety! I really feel for you Europeans because you guys are being flooded with massive numbers of them through immigration. You guys are also being lied to. Islam is not a peaceful religion. I could go on for hours detailing it all. Maybe I will in the future. Bottom line is most world governments are to chickenshit to tell the truth! They know if they do they will start World War 3! Instead they hide behind political correctness hoping if they appease the Muslims they will not cause trouble. The problem is that may be true now, but 100 years from now when they outbreed all Europeans the situation will be different. I say this not to be racist or a religious bigot. I say this because it is true. They are completely intolerant. I would personally be very concerned if I lived in Germany or anywhere in Europe! Everything ISIS is doing is found in the Koran! I wouldn't want that in my backyard! Look at the situation for all non Muslim groups in Muslim lands. Christians are going extinct! You think Muslims care? Look at how they reacted over the Danish cartoons of Mohammed! Riots and deaths everywhere. Where are all these same Muslims protesting ISIS? Pretty hard to find them! Just saying! Silent!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » November 11th, 2014, 12:17 am

Hey there Tar Heel Red! Wow! That is funny we were typing a response to Hungrywolf at the exact same time. I was literally typing and after I submitted my response to him I looked and you had just posted your response to him. It is pretty cool because your response mirrored mine in many ways. I am glad to say that we can at least agree on Islam! I did not notice your response to my other comments until right now as well. Real quickly I will make a few points in regards to what you said above.
1. No Vs 63 does not prove jesus was speaking symbolically or figuratively about the Eucharist for the following reasons.
A. Jesus Eucharistic discourse ends with vs 58 (see vs 59). The dialogue of verses 60-70 occurs later and deals with faith not the Eucharist.
B. The word "Spirit" is nowhere used in the bible to mean "Symbolic" The spiritual is every bit as real as the material.
C. In vs 63, Jesus is contrasting the natural or Carnal man "The Flesh" with the spiritual or faith filled man.
Look at these verses to understand what jesus means by the flesh 1 cor 2;14-3:4, Romans 8:1-13 theseare really good examples. I wont type them here because it is to long. I will type these 2 though as they are short. These confirm that the "Flesh" refers to natural thoughts and desires while "The spirit" refers to supernatural thoughts and desires. Matt 26:41 " The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit".
D. Notice that Jesus says "My flesh when discussing the Eucharist. He says "The flesh" when referring to the carnal man who will not believe anything beyond his senses and reason. No Christian believes that his flesh is of no avail," for his flesh was the means of our redemption.
E. This is the main point and how you know exactly what he was talking about. The unbelieving disciples leave Jesus after verse 63. They would not have done this if Jesus would have simply stopped them and assured them that he was speaking figuratively or symbolically. In fact this is the only time any of his disciples left him because they find a doctrine of his to hard to accept.
F. This has always been a doctrine taught by the Church! If you don't believe me read the writings of the early Church Fathers. Some good ones are: St Ignatious, 1st century, St Justin Martyr, Ad 130, St Irenaeus, AD 140-202 St Cyril, AD 350. They all wrote about the true presence and in the centuries immediately after Christ's death. In fact even Martin Luther confirmed that the early Church fathers unanimously taught the doctrine of the real presence.

2. You say that Catholicism is a religion that teaches works. Actually Catholicism teaches that nothing saves us but the grace of God! If you are a person that is truly living a grace filled life then works will naturally follow. Catholicism does not teach that it is these works that save you but it is Gods Grace and his Grace alone that saves you!

3. you brought up a lot of different things here! Honestly I can not answer every question In just one sitting. I started another thread on Catholicism in which I answered the same question on the Eucharist. Nobody has responded to any of it until now so I let it be. I think it is important for me to follow up on some things on that thread though. I would definitely like to cover Salvation, the Papacy, Authority, Purgatory, Confession, the mass, and some other miscellaneous subjects. To me it is not about being right or wrong it is simply about representing my religion to the best of my ability! This is God's work, so I will make the time if people express any interest in hearing about it! After all this is what led me out of gangbanging! That is what this site is all about, so I would be glad to represent my thoughts on the matter. Anyways, I can tell that you are a religious man and a Christian brother! That means a lot to me! I respect that more than words can possibly express! Hopefully you and I can discuss some things on here and at the very least come to understand each others viewpoints better. After all at the end of the day we are both fighting for the same cause, Christ Jesus! Much respect Tar heel Red! Don't trip off of Rudog! He just expressed himself a little awkwardly in his last post. Hopefully he can read some of our dialogue and find it within himself to study God's word more! I know it changed my life for the better. I am definitely Catholic, I have definitely Bible and the Catechism cover to cover as well as many other books. If you wish we can talk about some things. Peace out and God Bless, Silent!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » November 11th, 2014, 10:22 am

@TarHeelRED, I already explained that I don't have the patience to make a debate over your silly comment, so miss me with that chit. I didn't need to say anything to Silent, but I already figured he would take the time to respond to your silly comment, looking like you like to write in ketchup. I was raised Catholic, so it was a tradition and I read catechism teachings. In the church Catholics often read and hear about different parts of the Bible. I myself have read the Bible from front to back and a Catholic Bible at that, so I can say that I have read the Bible 100% in fact. How about you, have you read the Bible?

Do you read a cut down version of the Bible? Why wouldn't the full Bible put together by Catholics be good enough for you, but a Protestant version would? Did mommy and daddy used to drag you to a "Protestant" (whatever you call youselves) church and you were told it was the truth, so therefore you believe it without examining the heretical doctrine? Do you play follow the monkey? I wouldn't be surprised, but answer me this. Who gave you the authority to dictate Bible Scripture?!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby HungryWolf » November 17th, 2014, 6:51 am

silentwssj wrote:I would personally be very concerned if I lived in Germany or anywhere in Europe! Everything ISIS is doing is found in the Koran! I wouldn't want that in my backyard! Look at the situation for all non Muslim groups in Muslim lands. Christians are going extinct! You think Muslims care? Look at how they reacted over the Danish cartoons of Mohammed! Riots and deaths everywhere. Where are all these same Muslims protesting ISIS? Pretty hard to find them! Just saying! Silent!


Well, there has been a protest against ISIS by muslims here in Germany but if you'd compare that against all other protests it's not worth mentioning. And I expect more from them than just that. We have armed robberies going on here that funnel their booty directly to Syria and Irak in order to support ISIS. They rob churches and kindergartens. It became really bad here.
On Saturday there has been a big protest in Hannover. 3000+ ppl attended. It was organized by HoGeSa which is short for Hooligans against Salafis. But you know what? The media ignored it. There have even been counter-protests by left winged activists. No muslims, just left winged ppl. See how bigot that is? I promise you, shit WILL get ugly here, one way or another.
Silent & TarHeelRED, thanks for the information. That's exactly how they act up here. They are always begging and demanding. If you ignore them they act insulted or offend. If you give in they want more. At first they demanded mosques, they got them. Then they demanded equality in the school systems. They got it. Apart from normal and vegetarian food now halal food is served in many schools. Now they want an extra holiday which is islamic. Like Easter of Christmas. Didn't get it, so they are insulted. But they keep on demanding. There has been a muslim nurse in my town that demanded to wear her headscarf at work in a Christian hospital. What the f**k?!
You know guys, I can't blame the rival for wanting what we own. But I can be angry about our ppl that give in to them. And I surly am.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby silentwssj » November 18th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Hey there Hungrywolf! As I said before, you guys in Europe are in for it! Islam is literally knocking at your door! I personally don't have any problems with a multicultural, multi ethnic population! I actually think it makes things more interesting! You guys in Germany are a homogenous population though. In the United States we are all immigrants. I guess over there, the native people probably get a little concerned that their own culture is being diluted. I guess I could see and relate to that! For us over here, there is hardly what could be called a native population. Indians constitute about 1% of our population. Most of them are concentrated on reservations, so the US is definitely different then Europe. Personally I don't have any issues with Muslims as a people. What my issues are is their religion teaches superiority over all other faiths. They are commanded to fight Jihad until all the religion of the world is for Allah! If you read the history of Islam, they offer all non Muslims 3 choices. Convert, Die, Or become a Dhimmie! A Dhimmie is someone who pays a tax to the Muslims for protection. They are mistreated and Discriminated against subjugated by the Muslim population. This was abolished in the 1920's with the abolition of the last Caliphate. Now that ISIS has re-established the Caliphate guess what! We have Dhimmies again in Syria and Iraq. People need to wake up to this! Even in regular Islamic countries it is becoming virtually impossible to be anything but a Muslim! They openly discriminate against all Non Muslims. That is my issue with them. I am all for live and let live. The problem is though they want respect in everyone else's countries, but they give non in theirs! People wonder why we had the Crusades! I always get mad when I read all this Anti Catholic and Anti Christian BS about that time period. The Crusades were fought in defense of the Byzantine Empire that was over run by Muslims. How is that bad or wrong? If you ask me they should have finished the job! We wouldn't be dealing with all this crap today! I hate to say it but the next big war will probably be fought with that part of the world. It is inevitable, they will not peacefully exist with anyone. Mark my word it is coming! Peaceout, Silent!

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby bumperjack » November 21st, 2014, 9:26 pm

Ok guys,everyone is entitled to there veiws, Religion and denominations will get people of all walks of life twisted cause to tell you the truth everyones interpertations are suspect to what they were taught the meaning and translation of scripture to be correctly understood the bible you need the discernment of truth as faith is believing the reality of what is true and believing in unseen things like spirit mind and soul,everyone claims there interpertations or translation is correct I repeat the average believer hasnt a clue of translation of scripture only the Holy Spirit our teacher and counsler can reveal the truth of Gods infallible word the human mind cannot translate the bible or scripture correctly period the truth is not found in books or man made doctrines fellas true story I can give you 100 verses on confessing sins that gives us the truth if them verses are in agreement with one another we can only let scripture conincide with other scripture for truththere is no arugement when you cancdo this because praying for spiritual wisdom out of His mouth come knowledge and understanding, Im not saying who is right and who is wrong fellas but we can agree to we all need to start with humilitydisagree but I would think we are all searching for truth cause thats what I want out of scripture we all have been lied to by church leaders,preachers pastors we need to start with humility

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby HungryWolf » December 3rd, 2014, 9:10 am

silentwssj wrote:If you ask me they should have finished the job! We wouldn't be dealing with all this crap today! I hate to say it but the next big war will probably be fought with that part of the world. It is inevitable, they will not peacefully exist with anyone. Mark my word it is coming! Peaceout, Silent!


My point exactly, brother! But I think Western ppl are getting a clue about this right now. I talked to a lot of ppl and most would agree with our words. We should get over with that issues with the Russians and form a nordic alliance in support of our ways of life.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby bumperjack » December 3rd, 2014, 9:54 am

Hungrywolf Im in agreement with Silent get your Nordic alliance going because the biggest Religion in the World Islam is I believe knocking on your door not Heavens door? LOL welcome home hope your trip was exilarating my German Bruder.

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby HungryWolf » December 6th, 2014, 10:59 am

Ha ha! Thanks, Bumper! Yeah, you know, as I told you, it's gonna get international! You know what I am saying! 8)

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Re: Oklahoma Battles Group over Statue of Satan

Unread postby MMRbkaRudog » July 24th, 2015, 11:09 pm



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