Black Venezuelan President Offers Free Gas 2 Poor in US
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TheReal
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Ancient Tribes of America
I will say this real quickly, then I'm out, because the project I'm working on, doesn't allow me to stay put on this site for very long, or any other site, for any length of time:
It's like this-if Hugo Chavez did indeed refer to himself as an "African" or black, then he is what he claims to be. That's if he claimed to be "African," or what have you. The reason why I emphasize the word "claim," is because in certain respects, racial identity in Latin America, is somewhat slightly different (not altogether) than it has been historically in North America, or the U.S. in particular.
You see, historically in this country folks who look like him, with all the european and amerindian blood that is in him, and in his phenotype, would still be considered a "black," just as long as he has one drop of black blood in him. (Just look at folks like Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, and Ralph or Walter White, who was the first black president of the NAACP, who had blue eyes and blond hair.) It's been this way, up until about 15 to 20 some odd years ago, when the biracial classifications came about. So what Hugo is doing, by referring to himself as an "African," is invoking the old school definition of what defines someones blackness, which only comes about, by having a drop of african/black blood in you.
For example, on my mother's side of the family, her relatives are light, bright, damn near white, with some having green to blue eyes, pale skin, and brownish to sandy colored, bone straight, or curly hair-BUT NEVERTHELESS, THEY REFER TO THEMSELVES IN THE MAIN, AS BEING BLACK! In other words, they're louisiana creoles, who evidently by their features, have european and amerindian in them, but they also have black in them, thus they refer to themselves as black.
Not only that, I have relatives in my family that are way paler than Hugo, and those that resemble Hugo, in regards to ethnic features, but nevertheless, they are referred to, or more importantly, they refer to themselves as being black.
That's why, posting up a picture to determine if someone is "black", in regards to how that definition of black has been applied within the americas, is somewhat futile, because in the end, being black on this land mass, didn't necessarily mean pure black, or someone that was "black" looking (anti-miscegenated features). This again, is a new phenomenom, within the last 15 to 20 years, within this country, where black folks ethnicity is judged by physical features only, as opposed to racial admixture.
And truth be told, this standard really only applies harshly to black folks, and not those of any other race, for the most part. You see, if someone looked white, or was part white, with amerindian, or latino ancestry, this person wouldn't be all too ostracized, if at all, if they decided to refer to themselves as an amerindian, or latino. Why? Because the mindset of most latinos and amerindians would be-IF YOU'RE PART US, AND CLAIM US, OR EVEN CLAIM US SOLELY, THEN YOU ARE RACIALLY ONE OF US, DESPITE YOUR RACIAL ADMIXTURE. Furthermore, it really doesn't matter how white you look, or how dark you are, you are still apart of the amerindian, or latino family...
However, really look at the flip side of this argument. Many latinos and amerindians, as well as other folks, which include black folks, will have no problem with amerindians saying this, in regards to whom they have under the umbrella of amerindian and latino, and will wholeheartedly accept their criterion, but now, let that be black folks, doing the same thing with a Tiger Woods, Alicia Keyes, or a Halle Berry, then folks, both black and white, brown and yellow, and so forth, will come out of the woodworks, and argue scientifically, logically, in order to prove on the most minor of technicalities-WHY THESE FOOLS AREN'T BLACK, EVEN IF THEY CLAIM TO BE BLACK!
And some folks will become so outrageous in their proclamations that these fools aren't black, by trying to psychologically phugg with black folks minds, by claiming that those who are black, that try to attach blackness onto these folks, are only doing so, because they are so ashamed of being black, to where they need these other than black folks accomplishments, or stamp of legitimacy-by claiming to be black. (However, one thing these folks who make such accusations against black folks, seem to forget, and that is, that some of these "biracial" folks, do indeed want to refer to themselves as being black, and apart of the black family, to where I have to question the motivations and the nerves, of those who aren't black, making these accusations, seeing as how many of them, or all of them, wouldn't use the same criteria to affirm someone else's racial identity, as they do black folks, especially if the person and the race in question was either "latino" or amerindian. In other words, these folks have a right to identify with whatever group they choose to, as long as they have the dna to prove it.) But this same standard, reasoning, or diluted logic, or arguments, are never put forth, when, again, folks who are white and chinese, white and latino, white and amerindian, white and arab, etc., decide to identify with the "darker" race they are mixed with- only when it comes to "biracial" folks, identifying with black folks.
I myself have been accused of being a blaxican, or a black mexican, or someone with a lot of amerindian in me, simply because I do have strong amerindian features, do have amerindian in my bloodline heavily, and have straight long hair, but I don't consider myself anything other than black, similar to my mother, and her side of the family, as well as my father, who was a black latino.
In the end, I can go further with dealing with the reasons why such double standards occur, when it comes to blacks and their racial identity, but if needs be, I'll respond to a possible rebuttal next week, because today, and this weekend, I'll be busy with other matters; but I felt that this issue, more so than any other issue in this particular forum, needed to be addressed.
I will say this real quickly, then I'm out, because the project I'm working on, doesn't allow me to stay put on this site for very long, or any other site, for any length of time:
It's like this-if Hugo Chavez did indeed refer to himself as an "African" or black, then he is what he claims to be. That's if he claimed to be "African," or what have you. The reason why I emphasize the word "claim," is because in certain respects, racial identity in Latin America, is somewhat slightly different (not altogether) than it has been historically in North America, or the U.S. in particular.
You see, historically in this country folks who look like him, with all the european and amerindian blood that is in him, and in his phenotype, would still be considered a "black," just as long as he has one drop of black blood in him. (Just look at folks like Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, and Ralph or Walter White, who was the first black president of the NAACP, who had blue eyes and blond hair.) It's been this way, up until about 15 to 20 some odd years ago, when the biracial classifications came about. So what Hugo is doing, by referring to himself as an "African," is invoking the old school definition of what defines someones blackness, which only comes about, by having a drop of african/black blood in you.
For example, on my mother's side of the family, her relatives are light, bright, damn near white, with some having green to blue eyes, pale skin, and brownish to sandy colored, bone straight, or curly hair-BUT NEVERTHELESS, THEY REFER TO THEMSELVES IN THE MAIN, AS BEING BLACK! In other words, they're louisiana creoles, who evidently by their features, have european and amerindian in them, but they also have black in them, thus they refer to themselves as black.
Not only that, I have relatives in my family that are way paler than Hugo, and those that resemble Hugo, in regards to ethnic features, but nevertheless, they are referred to, or more importantly, they refer to themselves as being black.
That's why, posting up a picture to determine if someone is "black", in regards to how that definition of black has been applied within the americas, is somewhat futile, because in the end, being black on this land mass, didn't necessarily mean pure black, or someone that was "black" looking (anti-miscegenated features). This again, is a new phenomenom, within the last 15 to 20 years, within this country, where black folks ethnicity is judged by physical features only, as opposed to racial admixture.
And truth be told, this standard really only applies harshly to black folks, and not those of any other race, for the most part. You see, if someone looked white, or was part white, with amerindian, or latino ancestry, this person wouldn't be all too ostracized, if at all, if they decided to refer to themselves as an amerindian, or latino. Why? Because the mindset of most latinos and amerindians would be-IF YOU'RE PART US, AND CLAIM US, OR EVEN CLAIM US SOLELY, THEN YOU ARE RACIALLY ONE OF US, DESPITE YOUR RACIAL ADMIXTURE. Furthermore, it really doesn't matter how white you look, or how dark you are, you are still apart of the amerindian, or latino family...
However, really look at the flip side of this argument. Many latinos and amerindians, as well as other folks, which include black folks, will have no problem with amerindians saying this, in regards to whom they have under the umbrella of amerindian and latino, and will wholeheartedly accept their criterion, but now, let that be black folks, doing the same thing with a Tiger Woods, Alicia Keyes, or a Halle Berry, then folks, both black and white, brown and yellow, and so forth, will come out of the woodworks, and argue scientifically, logically, in order to prove on the most minor of technicalities-WHY THESE FOOLS AREN'T BLACK, EVEN IF THEY CLAIM TO BE BLACK!
And some folks will become so outrageous in their proclamations that these fools aren't black, by trying to psychologically phugg with black folks minds, by claiming that those who are black, that try to attach blackness onto these folks, are only doing so, because they are so ashamed of being black, to where they need these other than black folks accomplishments, or stamp of legitimacy-by claiming to be black. (However, one thing these folks who make such accusations against black folks, seem to forget, and that is, that some of these "biracial" folks, do indeed want to refer to themselves as being black, and apart of the black family, to where I have to question the motivations and the nerves, of those who aren't black, making these accusations, seeing as how many of them, or all of them, wouldn't use the same criteria to affirm someone else's racial identity, as they do black folks, especially if the person and the race in question was either "latino" or amerindian. In other words, these folks have a right to identify with whatever group they choose to, as long as they have the dna to prove it.) But this same standard, reasoning, or diluted logic, or arguments, are never put forth, when, again, folks who are white and chinese, white and latino, white and amerindian, white and arab, etc., decide to identify with the "darker" race they are mixed with- only when it comes to "biracial" folks, identifying with black folks.
I myself have been accused of being a blaxican, or a black mexican, or someone with a lot of amerindian in me, simply because I do have strong amerindian features, do have amerindian in my bloodline heavily, and have straight long hair, but I don't consider myself anything other than black, similar to my mother, and her side of the family, as well as my father, who was a black latino.
In the end, I can go further with dealing with the reasons why such double standards occur, when it comes to blacks and their racial identity, but if needs be, I'll respond to a possible rebuttal next week, because today, and this weekend, I'll be busy with other matters; but I felt that this issue, more so than any other issue in this particular forum, needed to be addressed.
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Sentenza
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Ive read those links and have to admit, that they re interesting.Ancient Tribes of America wrote:Actually, many many linguistic academics would disagree with you.Sentenza wrote:Well and one thing i want to throw in.....Navajo do NOT understand Chinese. So much is for sure.
http://www.1421.tv/pages/evidence/conte ... enceID=202
¡¤ Navajo elders understand Chinese (Jim Tanner and John Ting)
¡¤ Zuni understand Japanese (Jim Tanner and Nancy Yaw Davis).
Similarities between Zuni and Jomon of Japan (F Lizuka)
¡¤ Lake Tahoe. "Ta Ho" is Chinese for "Big Lake." (Jeff Spira and KK Tan)
¡¤ Native American people of the Klamath River region can still identify Chinese words and intonations (Michael Pincus)
¡¤ Yosemite - Yo Se Mi Te taken together in Chinese means magnificent mountain, beautiful place. It's now a national park in Northern California;
Suisan Bay - Sui is water & San is hill; taken together Suisan is ¡®Water & Hill Bay¡¯. Located in Northern California near Sacramento - Ben Young
¡¤ On the arrival of the Europeans to the east coast of American they heard the local Indians speak of ¡®moccocine¡¯ being the skin stiched foot wear. The Mongolian word for their foot wear is ¡®managocine¡¯ which translated into English means ¡° Our foot wear¡± (Dorsha Unkow)
It may be true, that people from other parts of Asia migrated to America (which also those links do not prove, it is just a theory by now)
One thing that confuses me though is that it is despite the fact that it maybe true, that lets say, Japanese people migrated to America, it is very unlikely that Native Americans, even if some oft them are related to Japanese, still would understand the language.
This contradicts every linguistical logic, because if they migrated a few thousand years ago, like it is stated on the site, the language would have changed so dramatically, that they would definitely not be able to understand anything of it anymore.
An example: We all speak english which originated due to the mixing of at least 4 different languages: Latin (Romans), Celtic(the "natives" of England), German(Anglo-Saxons) and Danish (Vikings).
English started to develope the way we know it approximately 1000 Years ago.
No one in this forum would be able to understand to understand a single word of original Old English, cause languages change drastically over the Centuries.
I once had a Linguistic Course in College and scientists state, that it "only" takes a language ca. 500 Years of development to change so much that the speakers of this language will not able to understand the old version of it.
So if we take this into consideration, it is impossible that native americans are able to understand asian languages from thousands of years ago, even if they descended partially from them.
But it might be possible, that they understand certain phrases or words by incident.
To put a long story short. Ill read more about this theory cause it is interesting.
But also, what would it change if there was a Migration of Japanese/Chinese people to Northern America?
Native Americans are of Asian origin anyways, it doesnt make a difference to me if of Sibirian origin or Japanese.
It's like this-if Hugo Chavez did indeed refer to himself as an "African" or black, then he is what he claims to be. That's if he claimed to be "African," or what have you. The reason why I emphasize the word "claim," is because in certain respects, racial identity in Latin America, is somewhat slightly different (not altogether) than it has been historically in North America, or the U.S. in particular.TheReal wrote:Ancient Tribes of America
I will say this real quickly, then I'm out, because the project I'm working on, doesn't allow me to stay put on this site for very long, or any other site, for any length of time:
It's like this-if Hugo Chavez did indeed refer to himself as an "African" or black, then he is what he claims to be. That's if he claimed to be "African," or what have you. The reason why I emphasize the word "claim," is because in certain respects, racial identity in Latin America, is somewhat slightly different (not altogether) than it has been historically in North America, or the U.S. in particular.
It's been this way, up until about 15 to 20 some odd years ago, when the biracial classifications came about. So what Hugo is doing, by referring to himself as an "African," is invoking the old school definition of what defines someones blackness, which only comes about, by having a drop of african/black blood in you.
For example, on my mother's side of the family, her relatives are light, bright, damn near white, with some having green to blue eyes, pale skin, and brownish to sandy colored, bone straight, or curly hair-BUT NEVERTHELESS, THEY REFER TO THEMSELVES IN THE MAIN, AS BEING BLACK! In other words, they're louisiana creoles, who evidently by their features, have european and amerindian in them, but they also have black in them, thus they refer to themselves as black.
ITS REALLY NO DIFFERENT A BLACK PRESONIN LATIN AMERICAN IS NO DIFFERENT FROM A BLACK PERSONIN AMERICA!
So what Hugo is doing, by referring to himself as an "African," is invoking the old school definition of what defines someones blackness, which only comes about, by having a drop of african/black blood in you.
NOI M SORRY YOUR WRONG HE SAYS THAT FOR A REASON. HE REPRESENTS THE BLACKS AND AMERINDIANS IN VENEZ! JUST CAUSE SOME ONE HAS EUROPEAN BLOOD IN THEM DON'T MAKE THEM MULLATO AND JUST CAUSE PEOPLE ARE 50/50 DON'T MAKE THEM BLACK AND INMANY CASES PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE BI RACIAL IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIETY AND JIM CROW LAWS SO YOU CAN COME OUT THE CLOSET.
AND FUTHERMORE, THERE ARE NOT EVEN THAT MANY LOUISIANA CREOLES JUST PEOPLE PLAYING THE LAGACY HOW MANY FRENCH PEOPLE STILL RESIDE IN LOUSIANA? CREOLES HAVE MIXED WITH BLACKS AND WHITE PEOPLE TOO THAT DOES NOT GIVE THEM THE TITTLE TO CREOLE. IF A BLACK PERSON HAS A FRENCH LAST NAME DOES NOT MEANS HES CREOLE JUST AS A BLACK PERSON WITH A IRSH LAST NAME LIKE THOMAS DON'T MAKE EM IRISH OR MULLATO.
1 DROP RULE IS DEAD ONLY DUMB ASS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THINK SO JUST CAUSE THERE IS NOT A BI RACIAL BOX WELL PICK 2 CHOICES AND THE US. CENSUS HAS MANY CHOICES.
I WILL PETTION THE GOV FOR A OVERALL BLACK AND WHITE BOX SINCE PEOPLE LIKE YOU THINK BLACK PEOPLE WORSHIIPS THE ONE DROP RULE OH YEAH LIKE NO OTHER COUNTRY DOES IT EITHER IN DIFFERENT FORM.
BI RACIALS OF 2 DIFFERENT PARENTS ARE MIXED TO ME NEVER BLACK IN FACT I WOULD CONSIDER THEM ALOT MORE WHITE FOR OBVIOIS REASONS WHICH I DO NOT CARE TO EXPLAIN CAUSE YOU FUKKERS CRY TO DAMN MUCH.
BLACK PEOPLE ARE BLACK LET US BE IF BI RACIALS WANT TO CLAIM BLACK THEN SO BE IT!
EVEN IF I HAD 20%CAUCASIAN DNA IM STILL A BLACK MAN. WHY? WHY NOT Y IDENTIFY WITH FOOLS THAT TREATED OUR PEOPLE BAD AND STATES WE ARE 3/5 OF A PERSON JUST CAUSE ITS THE 21ST CENTURY FUKK THAT!
For example, on my mother's side of the family, her relatives are light, bright, damn near white, with some having green to blue eyes, pale skin, and brownish to sandy colored, bone straight, or curly hair-BUT NEVERTHELESS, THEY REFER TO THEMSELVES IN THE MAIN, AS BEING BLACK!
THEY WHITE! AND YOU KNOW I DOUBT THAT THEY HALF AFRICAN AND HALF FRENCH! WHY DONT YOU ASK THEM WHY THEY SAY THEY ARE BLACK AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY MANY CROELES SAY THEY ARE WHITE SO WHAT?
THERE ARE MANY CREOLES
FRENCH AND AFRICAN MIXED
AND BLACK CREOLES(FROM HAITI AND DOMINICA) CAUSE OF SPEKING CREOLE
CREOLES IN AFRICA OF SPEAKING PORTUGUESE AND AFRICAN LANGUAGES MIXED
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Jakk
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- Location: [are you lisening or are you dumb, UK
I Like Chavez and Castro there relly cool
1. hes not black hes Brown
2. hes a very wise man
3. hes a good leader for the People like castro
4. hes helping poor people in his own country too
5. Look for your self
chavez and castro hugging
[img]http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/lati ... castro.jpg[/img]
Chavez and Castro Best friends 4 life
[img]http://bellaciao.org/es/IMG/jpg/chavez_castro.jpg[/img]
This is MY veiw
Its only the Mafia, the CIA and the Goverment that what to use the people of Cuba as servents in hotels and so the middle class Amreicans can go to Cuba for holladays
VIVA LA REVALOTION
1. hes not black hes Brown
2. hes a very wise man
3. hes a good leader for the People like castro
4. hes helping poor people in his own country too
5. Look for your self
chavez and castro hugging
[img]http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/lati ... castro.jpg[/img]
Chavez and Castro Best friends 4 life
[img]http://bellaciao.org/es/IMG/jpg/chavez_castro.jpg[/img]
This is MY veiw
Its only the Mafia, the CIA and the Goverment that what to use the people of Cuba as servents in hotels and so the middle class Amreicans can go to Cuba for holladays
VIVA LA REVALOTION
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TheReal
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- Joined: January 20th, 2004, 1:19 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA (Windsor Hills section)
To 100
DAMN MAN, I POSTED A 14 PARAGRAPH REBUTTAL TO YOUR SOPHIST BS, AND THIS DAMN SITE DIDN'T ALLOW IT TO GO THROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAN, YOU ARE LUCKY ON THAT ONE!!!!!!!!!
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that's alright, I'll regroup, and will hit you back another day, on your waaaaaaaay off rebuttal to me, especially in regards to my family on my mother's side not being black; those who are more european than black, being considered "white," etc.
Man you are a stupid son of a bitch, who will have his come uppance by the end of this week!!!!!!!!
DAMN MAN, I POSTED A 14 PARAGRAPH REBUTTAL TO YOUR SOPHIST BS, AND THIS DAMN SITE DIDN'T ALLOW IT TO GO THROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAN, YOU ARE LUCKY ON THAT ONE!!!!!!!!!
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that's alright, I'll regroup, and will hit you back another day, on your waaaaaaaay off rebuttal to me, especially in regards to my family on my mother's side not being black; those who are more european than black, being considered "white," etc.
Man you are a stupid son of a bitch, who will have his come uppance by the end of this week!!!!!!!!
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TheReal
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To 100
And another, sucker paul beeyatch:
If Hugo Chavez, or any person who's half black and white, or is mixed with black, wants to identify solely with being black, then it's none of your damn business fool!! If you are black, remember this fool-YOU DON'T DEFINE BLACKNESS, NOR ARE YOU THE FINAL SAY IN WHO'S BLACK OR NOT!
So in the end, fuck you, and your fake righteous indignation! But that's okay, I'll be back before the weeks over with, to re-address your ignorant, sophist rhetoric. It's just that right now, after writing a 14 paragraph rebuttal, I don't have the physical and psychological energy, to delve into this issue fully with you, by retyping all of my arguments...
And another, sucker paul beeyatch:
If Hugo Chavez, or any person who's half black and white, or is mixed with black, wants to identify solely with being black, then it's none of your damn business fool!! If you are black, remember this fool-YOU DON'T DEFINE BLACKNESS, NOR ARE YOU THE FINAL SAY IN WHO'S BLACK OR NOT!
So in the end, fuck you, and your fake righteous indignation! But that's okay, I'll be back before the weeks over with, to re-address your ignorant, sophist rhetoric. It's just that right now, after writing a 14 paragraph rebuttal, I don't have the physical and psychological energy, to delve into this issue fully with you, by retyping all of my arguments...
[quote="Jakk"]I Like Chavez and Castro there relly cool
1. hes not black hes Brown
2. hes a very wise man
3. hes a good leader for the People like castro
4. hes helping poor people in his own country too
5. Look for your self
chavez and castro hugging
[img]http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/lati ... castro.jpg[/img]
Chavez and Castro Best friends 4 life
[img]http://bellaciao.org/es/IMG/jpg/chavez_castro.jpg[/img]
1.THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BROWN RACE AND IF IM BASING HIM ON HIS ACTUALL SKIN COLOR HIS OLIVE! NOT BROWN BROWN IS VERY DARK!
AS FAR AS HIS RACE HIS AMERINDIAN POINT BLANK ALL AMERINDIANS DON'T REFER TO THEMSELVES AS BROWN ITS CRAZY
1. hes not black hes Brown
2. hes a very wise man
3. hes a good leader for the People like castro
4. hes helping poor people in his own country too
5. Look for your self
chavez and castro hugging
[img]http://www.latinopundit.com/latino/lati ... castro.jpg[/img]
Chavez and Castro Best friends 4 life
[img]http://bellaciao.org/es/IMG/jpg/chavez_castro.jpg[/img]
1.THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BROWN RACE AND IF IM BASING HIM ON HIS ACTUALL SKIN COLOR HIS OLIVE! NOT BROWN BROWN IS VERY DARK!
AS FAR AS HIS RACE HIS AMERINDIAN POINT BLANK ALL AMERINDIANS DON'T REFER TO THEMSELVES AS BROWN ITS CRAZY
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MiChuhSuh
I believe I can answer your question. The linguistics (or anything else in a society) change most rapidly due to interactions with other peoples. That is why English changed, there were several forms who interacted. However, the people in the Americas, more or less, became isolated. Most are believed to have come from Mongolia, but some from China, and even one tribe (I think the only one) to have Viking ancestors. But anyways, since there were only a few languages represented here in the Americas, the changes were mostly about dialect and/or slang with new words invented altogether, rather than language itself "changing".Sentenza wrote:Ive read those links and have to admit, that they re interesting.Ancient Tribes of America wrote:Actually, many many linguistic academics would disagree with you.Sentenza wrote:Well and one thing i want to throw in.....Navajo do NOT understand Chinese. So much is for sure.
http://www.1421.tv/pages/evidence/conte ... enceID=202
¡¤ Navajo elders understand Chinese (Jim Tanner and John Ting)
¡¤ Zuni understand Japanese (Jim Tanner and Nancy Yaw Davis).
Similarities between Zuni and Jomon of Japan (F Lizuka)
¡¤ Lake Tahoe. "Ta Ho" is Chinese for "Big Lake." (Jeff Spira and KK Tan)
¡¤ Native American people of the Klamath River region can still identify Chinese words and intonations (Michael Pincus)
¡¤ Yosemite - Yo Se Mi Te taken together in Chinese means magnificent mountain, beautiful place. It's now a national park in Northern California;
Suisan Bay - Sui is water & San is hill; taken together Suisan is ¡®Water & Hill Bay¡¯. Located in Northern California near Sacramento - Ben Young
¡¤ On the arrival of the Europeans to the east coast of American they heard the local Indians speak of ¡®moccocine¡¯ being the skin stiched foot wear. The Mongolian word for their foot wear is ¡®managocine¡¯ which translated into English means ¡° Our foot wear¡± (Dorsha Unkow)
It may be true, that people from other parts of Asia migrated to America (which also those links do not prove, it is just a theory by now)
One thing that confuses me though is that it is despite the fact that it maybe true, that lets say, Japanese people migrated to America, it is very unlikely that Native Americans, even if some oft them are related to Japanese, still would understand the language.
This contradicts every linguistical logic, because if they migrated a few thousand years ago, like it is stated on the site, the language would have changed so dramatically, that they would definitely not be able to understand anything of it anymore.
An example: We all speak english which originated due to the mixing of at least 4 different languages: Latin (Romans), Celtic(the "natives" of England), German(Anglo-Saxons) and Danish (Vikings).
English started to develope the way we know it approximately 1000 Years ago.
No one in this forum would be able to understand to understand a single word of original Old English, cause languages change drastically over the Centuries.
I once had a Linguistic Course in College and scientists state, that it "only" takes a language ca. 500 Years of development to change so much that the speakers of this language will not able to understand the old version of it.
So if we take this into consideration, it is impossible that native americans are able to understand asian languages from thousands of years ago, even if they descended partially from them.
But it might be possible, that they understand certain phrases or words by incident.
To put a long story short. Ill read more about this theory cause it is interesting.
But also, what would it change if there was a Migration of Japanese/Chinese people to Northern America?
Native Americans are of Asian origin anyways, it doesnt make a difference to me if of Sibirian origin or Japanese.
In fact, there are only four somewhat accredible claims to contact with the Americas before Colombus's rediscovery, and two of them are Chinese. One by monks in the 500s, and one by famed explorer Zheng He. Architectural findings indicate the pottery of Mayans resembles Chinese old pottery, and the Aztecs have a legend of a visitor resembling Zheng He. The next claim is Viking, but that is in Newfoundland, which was deserted when Vikings came.
The final claim is what I believe to be the most interesting. There are several Middle Eastern characteristics of some Native Americans, and thus several groups are claiming discovery, but the Egyptian one is the most convincing. Archaeologists to Egyptian tombs found cocaine in some form or another in some sealed tombs, and in the body tissue of several mummies (in the tissue, not like packs hidden there, but that the mummy once used cocaine previously). Later, a famous historian rebuilt an Egyptian ship and sailed it the same way they did at the time, and failed to reach America the first two times, but the time succeeded using the triangle current. This current is natural and in fact, Colombus himself reported that bodies of "strange, foreign men would oft drift" to the shore of the Carribeans.
There are several interesting links, but in general, the Indians were isolated, and the fact that these links are so astounding goes to show just how isolated they were, it's hard to believe there was contact.
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Sentenza
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- Location: Overseas
Well elaborated, but still i am not convinced. Keep in mind that Native Americans have been separated for maybe 10,000 years. Way enough time to develop totally different to the cultures they originated from.
Well you mentioned to many things to go into all of them, but as far as i know Archeologists are stating that the Vikings have been driven off New Foundland with force-cause they found evidence of fights- and never returned because they were extingiushed.
And Indian Languages have had exchange among themselves. You know, the Aztec language differs a lot from the Navaho language for example.
Keep in mind that in Europe it did not even take 10,000 years to develop this variety of languages, so why should pre-colonial America be different to Europe and "stand still" linguistic wise for such a long time?
The explorer Zheng He is still a legend. Few doubt that he existed, but what he did and where he went still is in the centre of many fairy tales and even scientifically not much has been proven about him. The guy is a legend and like always many rumors are spread around legends. I read about him on that website AncientTribesofAmerica linked and even they said that they did not find 100% evidence about wether he went there or not.
The Egyptian evidence: Why Do ancient Greeks not mention these links Egyptians supposedly had with America? Nothing is stated about this in their writings and they had first class access to the Egyptians. Why does Herodotus not mention anything?
Where is evidence in Egyptian Cartography? Why were Romans not able to sail anywhere when they had way more sophisticated ships which were able to smash the egyptian fleet easily in the battle of Actium 31 bc?
How did the guy sailing with egyption technique emulate the food supply of that time? They were not able to conserve food at that time to avoid starvation.
I know this is no evidence but it makes the Theory very questionable.
I really strongly doubt this Theory, but of course it could be true cause i do not know everything. It is just that evidence is weak for it by now cause it is all speculations because they did not find any 100% evidence.
And the last thing: Ancient mentions this site where they claim, that different native tribes understand languages of different asian languages (Chinese, Japanese Cambadian, Vietnamese if i remember correctly). This would mean that people from all these countries would have migrated to America since all these languages differ too much from each other. They do not understand each other which means that would have had to influence America each on his own.
Peace
Well you mentioned to many things to go into all of them, but as far as i know Archeologists are stating that the Vikings have been driven off New Foundland with force-cause they found evidence of fights- and never returned because they were extingiushed.
And Indian Languages have had exchange among themselves. You know, the Aztec language differs a lot from the Navaho language for example.
Keep in mind that in Europe it did not even take 10,000 years to develop this variety of languages, so why should pre-colonial America be different to Europe and "stand still" linguistic wise for such a long time?
The explorer Zheng He is still a legend. Few doubt that he existed, but what he did and where he went still is in the centre of many fairy tales and even scientifically not much has been proven about him. The guy is a legend and like always many rumors are spread around legends. I read about him on that website AncientTribesofAmerica linked and even they said that they did not find 100% evidence about wether he went there or not.
The Egyptian evidence: Why Do ancient Greeks not mention these links Egyptians supposedly had with America? Nothing is stated about this in their writings and they had first class access to the Egyptians. Why does Herodotus not mention anything?
Where is evidence in Egyptian Cartography? Why were Romans not able to sail anywhere when they had way more sophisticated ships which were able to smash the egyptian fleet easily in the battle of Actium 31 bc?
How did the guy sailing with egyption technique emulate the food supply of that time? They were not able to conserve food at that time to avoid starvation.
I know this is no evidence but it makes the Theory very questionable.
I really strongly doubt this Theory, but of course it could be true cause i do not know everything. It is just that evidence is weak for it by now cause it is all speculations because they did not find any 100% evidence.
And the last thing: Ancient mentions this site where they claim, that different native tribes understand languages of different asian languages (Chinese, Japanese Cambadian, Vietnamese if i remember correctly). This would mean that people from all these countries would have migrated to America since all these languages differ too much from each other. They do not understand each other which means that would have had to influence America each on his own.
Peace
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kverdugazo
- Middle Weight
- Posts: 150
- Joined: April 23rd, 2005, 6:37 am
- Location: Sto Domingo, Rep Dom; Seattle,WA; Hub City, CA
Chavez is a f'in idiot! Are you guys actually serious? He's one of the biggest bullshiters of all time. He hired some public relations guy to help his image here in USA but the truth is he's a lying crazy bastard. I lived in Venezuela so I know how it is down there. The only reason he was relected was because of fraud..now he has most of his people "Chavistas" in power in most of the Venezuelan states down there. He's a crook! He has stolen the land and businesses of many Venezuelans who oppose him thats why a lot have moved over here over the past few years. If you voted against him in the last election last year you might be out of a job. He has already locked up a ton of people who oppose him down there and he acts all nice and cute in front of the cameras and talks about Bush because it's the cliché thing to do. Don't believe the hype!
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kverdugazo
- Middle Weight
- Posts: 150
- Joined: April 23rd, 2005, 6:37 am
- Location: Sto Domingo, Rep Dom; Seattle,WA; Hub City, CA
Ah and by the way Chavez ain't gonna give shit to the poor here in the US he says all the same bullshiz to the poor people in VZLA but in reality they don't get shit. He talks a whole bunch of bs talking about "freedom" for Vzla yet he's taking it away little by little. Trust me if any of you were venezolano you'd know what I'm talking about.
ARE YOU A SPANISH DOMINICAN?
CAUSE FROM WHAT I SEEN IN THOSE CONFLICTS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPANISH IN ORIGIN LIVING IN VENZ,AND HIGH IN SOCIAL RANKINGS.
I SAW WHEN THEY KIDNAPPED HIM OUT OF OFFICE AND HIS STAFF REPLACE WITH WHITE HISPANICS HMMMM AND BERON LOOKED LIKE A DICTATOR HIMSELF.
BASICALLY ALL LATIN AMERICAN PRESIDENTS ARE BULSHITTERS THEN LOOK AT YOUR COUNTRY THE RICH ONLY PROSPER THE % OF WHITES IN DR IS LOW BUT YET YOU CAN NEVER GET A BLACK DR PRESIDENT OR DO'T YOUR PEOPLE TRUST BLACK DOMINICAN REPS IN OFFICE.
QUESTION- ARE THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE DR LOOK AT AS HAITIANS?
QUESTION- AND WHY DO EAST INDIANS GET BETTER TREATMEANT THAN BLACK DOMINICAN REPS DO AND THEY HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN THERE AS LONG AS ANY AFRICAN ON THE ISLAND ITSELF BUT THERE SEEN AS D.R CITIZENS AND HAITIAN-DOMINICAN REPS ARE SIMPLY HAITIAN!
QUESTION 3 HOW DO DOMINICAN REP MIGRANTS TO PR LOOK AT AFRO-PUERTO RICANS IN THE AREAS \OF LOIZA, CARONLINA AND MAYAGUEZ?
CAUSE FROM WHAT I SEEN IN THOSE CONFLICTS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPANISH IN ORIGIN LIVING IN VENZ,AND HIGH IN SOCIAL RANKINGS.
I SAW WHEN THEY KIDNAPPED HIM OUT OF OFFICE AND HIS STAFF REPLACE WITH WHITE HISPANICS HMMMM AND BERON LOOKED LIKE A DICTATOR HIMSELF.
BASICALLY ALL LATIN AMERICAN PRESIDENTS ARE BULSHITTERS THEN LOOK AT YOUR COUNTRY THE RICH ONLY PROSPER THE % OF WHITES IN DR IS LOW BUT YET YOU CAN NEVER GET A BLACK DR PRESIDENT OR DO'T YOUR PEOPLE TRUST BLACK DOMINICAN REPS IN OFFICE.
QUESTION- ARE THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE DR LOOK AT AS HAITIANS?
QUESTION- AND WHY DO EAST INDIANS GET BETTER TREATMEANT THAN BLACK DOMINICAN REPS DO AND THEY HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN THERE AS LONG AS ANY AFRICAN ON THE ISLAND ITSELF BUT THERE SEEN AS D.R CITIZENS AND HAITIAN-DOMINICAN REPS ARE SIMPLY HAITIAN!
QUESTION 3 HOW DO DOMINICAN REP MIGRANTS TO PR LOOK AT AFRO-PUERTO RICANS IN THE AREAS \OF LOIZA, CARONLINA AND MAYAGUEZ?
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kverdugazo
- Middle Weight
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- Joined: April 23rd, 2005, 6:37 am
- Location: Sto Domingo, Rep Dom; Seattle,WA; Hub City, CA
Well actually I was born here in USA but my mom is dominicana... but to answer your questions... Dominicans and haitians don't look the same at all. In the DR you can definetely tell the difference... atleast I can. A lot of dominicans don't like haitians for one reason or another... (past wars, etc...) me personally I like haitianos cuzz they're humble nice people. As far as Vzla goes... it's not just the rich "white" people it's also the younger generation... white, black, or indian 1/2 of the people down there want him(Chavez) out. Even the ones that voted for him or "NO" for the referendum have changed their minds cuzz they see what a crazy hipocrite bastard he is. I'm never against empowering the poor people and helping them progress but you can't do that by taking away from others that might have a little more or by taking away the rights of people. The only people who really like him are the poorest of the poor who have been tricked by him waving $$ at them and making false promises. I think some of the programs down there are good but the main goal of the government in VZLA is what I'm against and the Opposition down there. The robolucion down there is all bs
kverdugazo wrote:Well actually I was born here in USA but my mom is dominicana... but to answer your questions... Dominicans and haitians don't look the same at all. In the DR you can definetely tell the difference... atleast I can. A lot of dominicans don't like haitians for one reason or another... (past wars, etc...)
come on now you know thats b.s but of course you can say that cause 95% of haiti is black and i seen haitian ppl and it aint all what ppl say.
there is a program that comes on pbs they were doing traveling in the caribbean= called global trekker
they were in haiti, dr,trinidad jamaica and etc throughout the caribbean!
and i seen no difference in many dominican reps and haitians besides the dominican republicans who maybe were east indian(india) and some who were white! and some african and spanish mixes.
i don't know about the wars but the people who were fighting the wars in the dr were spainards i forgot the guys name who led the war it was not the dominican reps you see today. this spanish man wanted to claim the dr side back for spain and he did.
i guess worshipping spanish people in spanish speaking countries tops everything else!
this goes for all nations that were colonized by spain you celbrate independance from them but yet you keep their social customs.
since your in america where you live do haitians and dominican republicans clash
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Silencioso
- Light Heavy Weight
- Posts: 1865
- Joined: August 8th, 2003, 2:27 pm
- What city do you live in now?: West Los
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kverdugazo
- Middle Weight
- Posts: 150
- Joined: April 23rd, 2005, 6:37 am
- Location: Sto Domingo, Rep Dom; Seattle,WA; Hub City, CA
Chavez ain't black... I don't know who said that bullshiz... they're black venezolanos, white venezolanos, and everything in between...Venezuelans are mostly of Spanish decent however they're a lot of italian decent and the indians that were already there and some of the african slaves that were brought over. Chavez es un animal k no tiene madre hijueputa!