This is in response to sondoobie specifically, and representado, wcrockets and others collectively:
-It just seems to me like alot of brothers is on here taking pop shots at the Hispanic Raza.
*It may seem that way, only because the "brothers" are addressing the hate that hate produced! The anger that's expressed is based on real life experiences with your "raza", and instead of being upset with the "brothers", why not talk to your "Hispanic Raza" about the hate and anger, that they have amongst themselves towards black people. This way, you would greatly minimize some of the venom you see here, being broached by black folks.
Instead, all you're doing is trying to pacify black folks anger, over legitimate concerns, by always highlighting the few non-racist mexicans, while not lifting your finger to condemn your own people's racism. Deep down, you know that most of the black venom being unleashed by black folks on this site, is based on righteous anger, unlike your Mexican brothers and sisters, whose much of their motivations are based on unjustified hatred, racism and white supremacy. You know the difference, and you “good” non-racist mexicans know exactly where to pull on the heartstrings of black people, because in Black folks hatred of Mexican people, if it exist, isn’t like your people’s hatred. Your people are primarily haters without a cause.
Now I'll admit that black folks aren't perfect, and you do have those that possess sincere racism and prejudices within their heart. I will also admit that there are black people that hate mexicans, HOWEVER-I do know that these black folk are in the minority! Why? Because the majority of black folks like mexicans, and will collectively defend mexicans against white folks, and black folks that try and down them, but it isn't that way for mexicans-not even those who pride themselves in being non-racist.
Most mexicans are racist against black folks (I would say about 65%), and those that are non-racist refuse to check the racism (with the exception of a few) within their own people, rather they fluff it off, because they either 1) don't care; 2) feel it's a necessary evil; or 3) don't feel that blacks are important enough to defend, because even though you may not harbor hatred in your heart personally towards Black folks, you do believe in much of the racist statements leveled at black people by mexicans, to where you're glad that someone's saying what you're not bold enough to admit to, and/or you feel that defending black folks is beneath you! TELL ME I'M LYING!!
-First off remember that there are over 30 million Hispanics in the U.S and not even a quarter of that number are gang members or racists.
*First off, you remember, that included in those statistics of Hispanics, you have those who are black, or of african descent. Grant it, many of them are racist against blacks, as well as feel that even if they are part black, or are fully black, that they are better than black americans (to me this is foolish thinking, because truth be told, blacks in this country, compared to black latinos, or those of african descent, have accomplished a lot in this country, and have achieved wondrous feats, that can stack up against any afro-latino, or those latinos of african descent's roster of achievements and accomplishments), but let's not try and muddy the issue! You know damn well know that the black folk in here aren't referring to other hispanics/latinos per se: THEY’RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT MEXICANS. That's a trick that the devil uses, in order to cause confusion.
Now I'll admit that mexicans are about 60 some percent of the total hispanic/latino population, however, the black folks on this board aren't talking about the whole hispanic/latino population! OH HELL NO! We're specifically talking about the most racist of all the hispanic/latino groups, which are primarily (not solely) those of the mestizo variety (amerindian and european), and especially mexicans! Mexicans are the most racist of the hispanic/latino variety, or just those who are of the mestizo variety, seeing as how there's really no difference between your people's racism, and that of white folks.
As I said before, even though whites and mexicans may have their interfamily squabbles and disagreements that are political, let it be known that on a grassroots level-WHITES AND MEXICANS GET ALONG FINE, with few exceptions! Black leaders are always deceiving black folks into believing that we should feel some sort of pain and solidarity, with our “downtrodden mexican brothers and sisters”; which is essentially blacks folks in general, whereas you have plenty of rank and file black folks picking up that same mantra. If you ask me it is foolish for Blacks to grieve for Mexicans, seeing as how the majority of Mexicans hate Black people, and don't rightfully give a damn about black interests!
Most blacks haven't realized that just because a "darker" race is discriminated against by "whitey", doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate into solidarity and unity with black folks! I can understand the logic of that thinking and its’ simplicity, but in the end, every other group sees and realizes that it's all about taking pride in your own tribe!!! The fact that Mexicans will accept white people into their family pool quicker than they would someone black, is evidence to me-that Mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans allow white folks into their gangs/organizations, and will not hardly (with few exceptions) accept any black folks into their gangs/organizations as freely, or as frequently, as they would white folks, is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same, in regards to racial outlook. The fact that mexicans will join white supremacist organizations, and will ally with them, so freely and easily (something that black folks can never dream about doing; not that they should either), is evidence to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same. The fact that mexicans will utilize the exact same arguments, that white racists would use, in attacking black historical legacies, alleged inferiority, as well as physiological characteristics, is evidenced to me-that mexicans and whites are basically the same in regards to racial outlook, etc.
Trust me, I can say more, and list more examples, but to close this angle of the discussion, let me just say that blacks have for far too long, had blinders covering their eyes, in regards to racial solidarity with mexicans, and other racial groups, just because they're non-white! Many black folks foolishly believe that just because a darker group is subjected to racism, that that darker person is therefore, automatically down with black folks, because they understand the "struggle". Well first of all, that darker non-black person may be "down" with the cause, or "struggle", but it's primarily with his or her OWN PEOPLE!!! That's what many black folks don't understand, particularly when you have some non-white person, who may, or may not have been subjected to white oppression, complain to black folks about "whitey" and the evils of the white "devil", knowing that they'd find a sympathetic ear amongst many black folks!
Why? Because in many (not all) black folks eyes, if they are going to discuss a racial enemy, they are solely going to focus on white folks, and white folks only: AND MEXICANS AND OTHER GROUPS KNOW THIS, BUT THEY WILL USE THIS ON BLACK FOLKS, IN ORDER TO GAIN A PARTICULAR ADVANTAGE OR OBJECTIVE!!!! HOWEVER, WHEN THOSE SAME FOLKS, BOO-HOOING TO BLACK FOLKS ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE AND THEIR RACISM TOWARDS THEM, GAIN AN ADVANTAGE, WHETHER IT BE POLITICALLY, NUMERICALLY, OR SOCIALLY, THEN TO HELL WITH BLACK FOLK, IT'S ALL ABOUT "LA RAZA"!! Now in many ways, to be honest with you, there's nothing wrong with being about your own people's interest. We all know that black folks can use some of that medicine. The real problem though, lies in the fact that mexicans and other minorities, will try and invoke feelings of guilt and shame, when black folks try to unite and solidify their people, and deal with issues and concerns, concerning their own black people, by stating that 1) blacks aren't the only ones having problems with racism in this society; 2) for black folks to only think about black issues, makes them no better than white people; and 3) blacks never assisted other minority groups, when it came to their own unique struggles against white supremacy, even though the laws that were passed under the Civil Rights Movement, spearheaded by blacks, assisted and aided other non-black minorities.
This is the tricknology that non-black minorities will try and use on black folks, just like racist white folks, in order to keep black folks from unifying, and tending to their own needs and concerns specifically. These groups don't see anything wrong with their talk of unity, and discussing their plight, without once mentioning black people into the equation, but will make black folks feel like heels, if they're not concerned, nor give honorary mention to the plight of other folks.
You see, and you sondoobie know this to be true, many mexicans believe (because we are talking about mexicans, however, if any other non-black person, who's non-white, want to join the discussion, I'll deal with their people specifically as well) that when blacks reach out to mexicans, or give them honorary mention, such as what Tupac, or other black public figures, and/or luminaries would do, mexicans would accuse these folks of trying to appeal to mexicans because 1) they're trying to use mexicans numbers, in their fight against white supremacy; 2) blacks don't like being black anyway, so they're trying to attach themselves onto a race, they deep down feel inferior to, just so that they can be considered one people with this group, instead of having the stigma of being black alone; 3) because blacks ought to ingratiate themselves towards mexicans, because black folks owe them, because they're mexican, and the little that black folks did accomplish, should really go to mexicans anyway, because mexicans are better than blacks; more worthy than blacks; therefore kissing up to mexicans is a natural response from blacks that ought to be done, seeing as how blacks are at the bottom of the racial totem pole anyway! Again, you sondoobie and other mexicans, KNOW I'M TELLING THE TRUTH!!
- So what about the rest? I know for a fact that there are good Hispanics in the U.S that respect everyone no matter what the color of their skin.
*This is true, but they are silent about the rest of their people that are racist! You see, folks in this country only want to discuss black racism, in regards to a minority having those type of feelings, but those who are classified as hispanics, or more specifically mexicans, are hardly ever critiqued. You telling me that there are good mexicans, is like telling black folks during the Civil Rights Movement that there are good white folks!! That's a moot point.
During the days of Jim Crow and segregation in the deep south, and elsewhere, you always had good white folk, that’s not even an issue. Yet despite the number of "good" white folks, IT STILL DIDN'T STOP THEIR BRETHREN THAT WERE RACIST, FROM OPPRESSING BLACK FOLKS!!! Hell, some of those "good" white folks were part of the problem!! Knowing that black folks, by and large, were overwhelmed by the hatred of white folks, and would consider it of high honor for a white person just to smile at them, more so than they would their own kind (black people)-these "good" white folks would pacify black folks by their own personal goodness, and at the same time tell those blacks who were oppressed by their white brethren that not all white folks are bad, so don't judge the whole group.
Now a lot of this sentiment is true, when it comes to judging a collective, however white people, just like mexicans, have those "good" folks amongst their kind, who will break bread with black folk, hang with black folk, have sex with black women (even men too), have children with black women (even men too), AND STILL BE RACIST AS HELL AGAINST THE COLLECTIVE BLACK COMMUNITY: or at the very least, hold latent racial feelings against black people, or are borderline racist! These borderline racist mexicans, or those that are latently racist, despite the fact that they don't consider themselves haters, will nevertheless not step in and lift their finger against the evil deeds of racism that their people will enforce.
Just like Strom Thurmond, who had sex with a black woman, thus producing a black child. Well, his daughter naturally claims that he wasn’t a racist, because her personal experiences with him, albeit strained, were positive. Hell, he would even financially support her, from time to time, but it nevertheless didn’t stop him, nor thwart him, from being the most rabid segregationist there was in the senate and congress, from the 40’s, 50’s, and much of the 60’s!!! This fool, during the mid 60’s, when his daughter was at least in her 40’s, debated vehemently against the passage of the Civil Rights Act, stating that the natural order of things was segregation, and also staged the longest filibuster in congressional history, when it came to voting on the Civil Rights Act. (In the 1940’s during the time that his daughter was in here 20’s, he ran as a dixiecrat for president, promoting a segregationist platform.)
So you may ask me, WHAT’S THE POINT? Well my point is, I’m sure that there were many blacks during the life of Strom Thurmond, during the time he was a rabid segregationist (or even after he “changed”), that can give you stories of personal contacts with Strom, that weren’t racist, but rather produced positive results, FOR THEM ONLY!!!!!! However, with that being the case, it never propelled Strom Thurmond from denouncing any of the racism that was occurring throughout his home state of South Carolina against blacks, COLLECTIVELY!!! Even though he may have had black acquaintances that he was “cool” with, he still didn’t lift a finger against his white brethren for not allowing blacks to vote in his state, by way of violent means; he never lifted a finger to stop the lynching of blacks, by his own people; etc. Oh don’t get me wrong, he may have assisted and aided individual blacks, yet he never spoke out against the racism that his own people made towards blacks.
Not that this was his intention, but many blacks, in dealing with these type of white people that are considered “good”, whether it’s real or imagined, can produce a sense of illusory and personal satisfaction, because the person who belongs to a group of people they want to think well of, is treating them nice. With many blacks, if they’re not careful, these type of “good” non-black people, will excuse, or even lessen the urgency, or load, in the psyches of black people, when it comes to fighting against racism and oppression-because they’ve been blindsided by “good” non-black people, whom are tacitly stating that my goodness towards you, is good enough to let the rest of my racist brethren off the hook, because now you see that we are all not like that! That may indeed be the case, however, many of those “good” White folks from back in the day, and “good” non-racist Mexicans today, did not, and do not, lift their voices in regards to their own people’s wrongdoings, because deep down they benefit, or will benefit, from the present status quo, or the status quo that is to come with large numbers.
-So when you weigh the good versus the bad, the good out weighs the negative. Remember that homies..peace
*On a personal level it does, because in the end, we are all humans, thus social creatures whose love and friendships can transcend race, or religion. But having said that, I do realize that as human beings, groups will naturally want to take pride in their tribe, and look out for the best interests of their own group, even though they may friends that belong to another ethnic, or racial group. Just don’t make black folk feel guilty about having racial pride amongst their own group, or make them feel guilty about including other minority groups within their discussions of racism and oppression, seeing as how you damn well know that those same groups that criticize blacks for not including them, would never voluntary include black folks into their discussions!
Finally, I still will stand by the position that Mexican racists are the new white supremacists, and the running, unspoken joke is-THAT BLACK FOLKS HAVEN’T FIGURED THIS OUT YET! Black folks are still in a haze of believing that just because you’re dark, and non-white, that this automatically makes you an eternal ally, and that their struggles are automatically intertwined with one another. All other groups know this not to be case, but will imply that it is the case, when it suits their advantage.
Again, I’m not preaching that black folks ought to hate Mexicans, or any other racial group, just because they’re Mexicans, unlike what your own people think. What I’m teaching is that black folks ought to defend themselves against the predators within, and without their community! Seeing as how we’re on this website dealing with gang issues, and the fact that many of you folks are from Cali, as well as myself, I felt that the issue of Mexican and Black folks, and the rivalries that occur collectively across the board, which trickle down to the gang tensions, was and is appropriate! How so? Because you and I know that Mexican gangs, despite their existing for other functions, primarily are haters of black people collectively, and that part of their function is to rid black gangs of their existence, as well as black people throughout California and the southwest altogether-whether they are part of a gang, or not!
The majority of Mexican gangs, particularly in areas where Mexicans dominate in numbers, are racist and white supremacist in their proclivities, and their targeting of black gang members, or the general black populace, is tantamount to what white racists use to do in general, but now have a foot soldier/ally, who will continue, and take off where they (white folks) stopped. Now mind you, I’m not saying that blacks are angels, and I don’t mind retaliation against anyone, regardless of what race, if that person killed a relative, or fellow gang member. I understand and appreciate the code of the streets.
But here’s the difference: what’s fueling black gangs, and why they do what they do, even against Mexican gangs, is somewhat different than what Mexican gangs do, and their outlook towards black people. Mexican gangs, and part of the recent foundation for their existence and agenda, are to kill and annihilate blacks in total. A Mexican gang member, in my estimation, is no better than a nazi lowrider, or a skinhead gang, because-AGAIN-one of their ultimate and collective goals are to contain and annihilate the broader black community. That’s why I believe that in dealing with Mexican gang members in general, with unspoken genocidal designs on the black community, don't deal with them, the same way you would deal with ordinary gang squabbles, rather, deal with them the way you would a nazi, skinhead, or klansman, if they were in your midst and sights-because there really is no difference.
Up until now, many Black gangs have viewed Mexican gangs as mere nuisances, who, if they did have any insight on the social structure of racism and how it’s manifested, looked at the struggles between blacks and Mexicans, and the hatred thereof, as something that is orchestrated by white folks. That ultimately may be true (I use to think that way too), however, mexicans aren’t children, and in the end, they know whom they like, and hate-and why they feel the way they feel! Now black folks may be deceived into thinking that mexicans are pawns in a greater game, orchestrated by whites, but despite that being the case, the fact of the matter is-I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HERE AND NOW!!
The fact of the matter is, white racists and Mexican racists have alliances with one another, and they allow one another, into each other’s gangs/organizations, where they freely intermingle with one another, and hardly ever cross into each other’s domain. But Mexicans will fight Black folks and Asians, and will try to annihilate and contain them, but will never battle or war with Armenian gangs, the Russian mafia, nor white supremacists. If no one can’t see the connection between Mexican racists, their gang structures throughout the southwest, and whom they bed with, and will allow in their bed-THEN THEY’RE LIVING IN DENIAL!!
Black gangs must defend their turf, or just their lives (to hell with territory) against Mexican gang members, who wish to destroy their very existence, throughout the southwest. The same ferocity that black folks potentially have in attacking a person if they found out this cat was a nazi, or white supremacist, ought to be the mindset that blacks carry with them, when it comes to dealing with Mexican gang members, who desire to terminate their very lives, whether they’re in a gang, or not. Or just kill a racist Mexican, or Mexican gang member, who seeks your destruction, with the same passion and fury, the way you would a fellow black, who was a gang member, or just a civilian whom you feel dissed you the wrong way. If you can feel hatred towards your own brother, to where you become an expert killer in taking him (or even her) out-THEN WHY CAN’T YOU FEEL THAT SAME WAY TOWARDS MEXICAN GANG MEMBERS, SEEING AS HOW THE MAJORITY OF THEM HATE BLACK PEOPLE ANYWAY, AS WELL AS HAVE AS APART OF THEIR MOTIVATION FOR EXISTENCE, THE KILLING, CONTAINMENT AND ANNIHILATION OF BLACK FOLKS!
Again, I’m not telling black folks to go out and wantonly kill and exterminate Mexicans just because they’re mexican, the way many Mexicans in real life, as well as on the internet are suggesting, in regards to black folks. Hell, I’ve been on many Mexican websites, where they not only seriously discuss the extermination of black folks, but they also discuss (not all) allying with white folks, in their destruction of black people. You even have white racists on those sites that talk about Mexican nationalists and White nationalists linking up, and killing off black people. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying all Mexicans feel this way, even the racist ones, but the fact that you folks tolerate such a movement in your midst, and try to shrug it off, as if it’s nothing to concern yourself with, by tugging at Black folks heartstrings, by reminding them of how there are good Mexicans out there-STILL DOESN’T HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE BAD ONES THAT ARE PRESENTLY OUT THERE, AND WHOSE DESIRE IS TO DESTROY THE BLACK PRESENCE!!
(Again, I’ll reiterate, I’m only talking about defense (or an offense in retaliation, that was created by an offensive act perpetrated), unlike many Mexicans, who deal strictly in offensive measures.)
Black gangs, or just black folk in general aren’t aware of this, and many of them don’t want to, for many different reasons. But I’ll admit to what is there, and don’t care who likes it. In other words, and I put this out collectively, not individually: YOU’RE NOT DEALING WITH A MAN THAT DOESN’T KNOW YOUR PEOPLE’S NATURE, NOR THEIR DAMN DIRTY WAYS!!!
Last edited by TheReal
on February 6th, 2004, 11:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
Just the facts!