How to end Gang violence

[Sentenza]

Add your suggestions here.
There are some major discussions about hich gang is the most violent or dangerous in LA on here. I know that i contributed to some of these questions cause it may be a piece to the puzzle.
But in general, what would be your opinions or suggestions to end or reduce gang violence? Express your dreams in here!

['X']

Dreams? I wouldn't call it that, but anyway....


It's good to see a question actually asking about solutions to end the violence, instead of "who is doing the most killing" or all that other irrelavent nonsense.

It would take me too long to list the things I think is needed. For starters I think it has to start with these dudes thats active out there with the banging. They have to really want to change there ways in order for peace to come about. But I think in order for them to even consider stopping the violence, they have to have something in place that they can do with their lives outside of the streets.

Bruthas in the street have to be re-educated first and foremost. I truely believe it's not possible to harm that which you love, and because we have no love for self, and our people, it's easy for many of us to take our own people life. A proper knowledge of self has to be gained in order to want to end that lifestyle. It worked for me and countless others, but those of us who were able to make it out have to reach out to those who still stuck and help guide them. We cant just be satisfied knowing we made it out, we have used that which saved us to get our people.

Also, somehow, those who are in the field of doing community work like these gang intrervention programs(for example) have to be sincere in their efforts and consistantly work with those who hood they come from. And this goes for all of us who say we for peace, I believe there are more of us who are for peace than the so-called gang members, but what do we do for our communities? We see the carnage daily and do nothing. Most of these thats in the streets are our children, fathers, mothers etc..etc..so how can we be afraid to get at our own people? I'll cut this short for now, but the main things is our people need to be re-educated, and another important thing is drugs and alcohol, I wonder how many people made the wrong decision and maybe smoked somebody or some other crime while under while blowed or drunk. We cant make the right decisions while we are steady high, drunk etc..etc.. I'm seeing these youngstas starting earlier and earlier with the drugs and drink... Most of the solutions I have deal with the MEN in the communties needing to step up and protect our communties. It aint about no putting more police in the streets or stiffer penalties, or building more jails. The bruthas who have gave up the life of banging and who are sincere with trying to help others come out could use the funding that goes to these other worthless programs, there are some real soliders out there that have done it all who are willing to try to stop what they helped create, but they need the proper resources. I'll continue another time..


Good thread sentenza.....

[Sentenza]

Hmm, now that i think about it, this is a complex question.
I AM FOR MORE POLICE WITH BETTER WEAPONS, MORE JAILS AND LESS EDUCATION.

No, on the serious side it would have to be a multiple solution. People in the community should do their part, which is not enough if thatd be the only thing. Cause there are already many people all over America doing that community work.
The goverment would have to increase money for social issues, i.e. education, education, education. More schools, less jails.
A higher social standard (welfare etc.)-even though this is blasphemy in the ears of many americans- would also help A LOT. Like it or not.
Europe has low crime rates because of this. The proven example is out there.

I see America waging a war on the poor instead of a war against poverty.

Poverty is the main reason for violence on the streets.

Maybe there are also problems within the black community (irresponsible fathers, knuckleheads that draw kids into gang violence etc.) but thats not the main reason.

Currently there are more than 2 Million people incarcerated in the US, injuctions take place, 3 strikes laws etc. All of this has not turned out to be effective for reducing the violence.
The truth is that it is as high as ever, with its cyclic ups and downs as it seems.
I just wonder sometimes what the agenda of these monkeyass-politicians is.
Dont they recognize that all of this is ineffective ? Do they neglect it on purpose?

Another thing is the weapon issue in my eyes. If every fool can get an M-16 in his hands it will be more difficult to work against violence.
Where i am at, it is very difficult to get any kind of gun in your hands.
Not that this would be the complete solution but it would help.

[MiChuhSuh]

The only real way - not take part in gang violence and to those you can reach help them get out.

It's the individual's decision. Any action is a choice people make. So each individual must stop the violence with himself first.



In a broader sense? Better schools, tutoring programs, extra-curricular programs. But self-motivation is really a prerequisite. I realize that now. God gave humans free will, so then who has the power to take that away from you? No one.

P.S. The farm on Long Beach Blvd. is a good thing we have to support. Among extracurricular activities, caring for any form of life is the best in terms of nurturing peace. Hospital work, helping the homeless, volunteering at senior centers, etc. are all things to be encouraged.

[Sentenza]

God gave humans free will, so then who has the power to take that away from you? No one..

Thats true, but still the majority of people gets influenced by politics. Free will or not.
Cause politics does not necessarily provide free choice of action/life.
If politcs are bad, it drives people into violence. Poor countries are more violent than rich, thats my proof.
No employment= violence, as stupid as it sounds.
The american dream (from dish-washer to millionaire) will alsways stay a dream cause millions of people cant achieve it. Even as hard as they try.

[Sentenza]

X and EVN.....Please elaborate more on this if you want. It d be interesting.

[Sentenza]

The only real way - not take part in gang violence and to those you can reach help them get out.

It's the individual's decision. Any action is a choice people make. So each individual must stop the violence with himself first.



In a broader sense? Better schools, tutoring programs, extra-curricular programs. But self-motivation is really a prerequisite. I realize that now. God gave humans free will, so then who has the power to take that away from you? No one.

P.S. The farm on Long Beach Blvd. is a good thing we have to support. Among extracurricular activities, caring for any form of life is the best in terms of nurturing peace. Hospital work, helping the homeless, volunteering at senior centers, etc. are all things to be encouraged.

Compare with other countries. What makes them having no or less gang violence?

[MiChuhSuh]

No employment= violence, as stupid as it sounds.
The american dream (from dish-washer to millionaire) will alsways stay a dream cause millions of people cant achieve it. Even as hard as they try.

I don't know about that.

What gang member in LA area killed the most people (reportedly)? Big Evil. Ask youngwun. He supposedly killed about 60 people. 60.

http://streetgangs.com/topics/1997/100197evilb.html

He had a decent home, no real "poverty" and good, loving parents, even a wife. He didn't have to do anything "to survive" because he could have went to college and got a good job and really "lived the American dream." The only real gateway was his brother, but at the same tiem he had no ulterior motive to listen to his brother, he didn't have too. Basically he is a person with not apparent issues to struggle in life who simply chose to act evil.

As far as evil, it's your actions that make you evil, not your interior workings. Other than possibly some serious mental illness, I know people who have really evil minds but forcefully control and discipline themselves to be good, hardworking, and respectable/respectful people. I know others who simply choose to act evil with no pressure whatsever. This was his case.



As far as the "American dream" - the thing you listed is more of a generic "immigrant dream" - it happens in any country with a good economy that people move to. Th American dream to me is more about freedom.

As far as comparing with other countries - please name the country first. I have a hard time believing many countries have less violence, it could just be in different forms.

For example, go to North Korea, and the government is the gang, killing more people than all the gangs in the US combined could ever kill.

Palestine and Israel - obvious violence there.

Terrorists, fake-jihadists, etc.

Organized crime is in nearly every country in the world - I think only maybe those small 50 people island "countries" might not have gangs, but they work more as tribes/families than "nations".

[Sentenza]

No employment= violence, as stupid as it sounds.
The american dream (from dish-washer to millionaire) will alsways stay a dream cause millions of people cant achieve it. Even as hard as they try.

I don't know about that.

What gang member in LA area killed the most people (reportedly)? Big Evil. Ask youngwun. He supposedly killed about 60 people. 60.

http://streetgangs.com/topics/1997/100197evilb.html

He had a decent home, no real "poverty" and good, loving parents, even a wife. He didn't have to do anything "to survive" because he could have went to college and got a good job and really "lived the American dream." The only real gateway was his brother, but at the same tiem he had no ulterior motive to listen to his brother, he didn't have too. Basically he is a person with not apparent issues to struggle in life who simply chose to act evil.

As far as evil, it's your actions that make you evil, not your interior workings. Other than possibly some serious mental illness, I know people who have really evil minds but forcefully control and discipline themselves to be good, hardworking, and respectable/respectful people. I know others who simply choose to act evil with no pressure whatsever. This was his case.



As far as the "American dream" - the thing you listed is more of a generic "immigrant dream" - it happens in any country with a good economy that people move to. Th American dream to me is more about freedom.

As far as comparing with other countries - please name the country first. I have a hard time believing many countries have less violence, it could just be in different forms.

For example, go to North Korea, and the government is the gang, killing more people than all the gangs in the US combined could ever kill.

Palestine and Israel - obvious violence there.

Terrorists, fake-jihadists, etc.

Organized crime is in nearly every country in the world - I think only maybe those small 50 people island "countries" might not have gangs, but they work more as tribes/families than "nations".

Western European countries for example. The US has a higher murder rate than all of them combined, even if you consider the population.

[MiChuhSuh]

The Paris Riots and the dudes in Germany that were throwing bananas at black players in the World Cup don't exactly convince me. Paris Riots from what I heard were worse than the LA Riots times 2 or some craziness like that, and having seem the LA Riots that scares the crap out of me.

Can you be a little more specific to a country?

[Sentenza]

The Paris Riots and the dudes in Germany that were throwing bananas at black players in the World Cup don't exactly convince me. Paris Riots from what I heard were worse than the LA Riots times 2 or some craziness like that, and having seem the LA Riots that scares the crap out of me.

Can you be a little more specific to a country?

I did not say that theres no violence over here. And the riots in Paris were hell...Some 3- or 4000 cars and some houses were burnt down and stuff like that.

Those Hooligans were in England, but that racist shit happens everywhere, you are right.

Ok, lets take London for instance. London has gangs, drugs and violence.
It has around 40 to 60 murders each year, while it has a population of 7,000000 people.

LA had a population of 3694820 people in 2000 and a murder rate of 516 in 2000.

While London is having one of its highest murder rates ever, LA was at an all time low at that time but it is still having a murder rate more than 25 times as high as London.

There has got to be reason for that.

It is in my opinion because of social standards which are much higher in London and guns.

[MiChuhSuh]

Hm.....

Well I see England getting worse in the next few years because of the Muslim and Asian vs. Jamaican and also the complaints on New Scotland Yard. Can't elbaorate much more on that though. Can you post up stats?

[Sentenza]

Ok i did a mistake. I took some wrong figures, which relativates the whole thing a bit, but nor really.

Here is the real deal.

London, population: 7172091

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001 ... ages/h.asp

Murders: 221

http://www.met.police.uk/crimestatistic ... 042005.htm

Los Angeles, population: 3845541 (2004)

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108549.html

Murder Rate: 518 (2004)

http://losangeles.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm


This makes the murder rate not 25, but ca. 5 times as high as London.

Coincidence? I dont think so, cause allmost all major american cities have a higher crime and murder rate then their european counterparts.
America in general has a high crime rate and- to come back on topic- a huge gang connected crime rate. You wont find any western European country/city that can catch up with that.


WHY?

[Sentenza]

ok, i didnt want to jack this thread...

I would like to hear some more elaborations of you guys about this topic.
What do you think arer the reasons for the overwhelming gang-violence in the US and how could it be reduced?

[black]

I see America waging a war on the poor instead of a war against poverty.

and there it is.

[Noog]

Thats the right answer. America wages war on its own poor, rather than a war on poverty and the causes of poverty.

Perhaps hidden somewhere in the idea of the American Dream, that peeps have to be self-starters and pull themselves up from whatever beginning toward success is part of the problem - people from the poorest and most blighted communities have the odds stacked up against them, may will fail - but if integral to the idea of the American Dream was the idea that the great country, America also nutured her own and supported those on the bottom of the pile, then a war against poverty might begin to win hearts and minds. Integral to the present 'dream' is a hidden notion of blaming the poor for their own poverty in every instance. The American dream is about freedom in essense and a wonderful charter but its sad to see how that dream excludes the need for freedom from violence for those in the excluded communities who don't get the scraps from the rich mans table.

London does have a lower homicide rate per capits than LA, no doubts and while I hope that the homicide rate lowers still, I also hope that the homicide rate for LA drops with it.

As I understand it, LA saw its worst violence in the mid to late 80's after the blitz of the crack pendemic took hold and that though levels of violence remain tragically high, the trajectory is one of moving toward lower homicide rates than the recent past - please correct me if I'm wrong about that. On the other hand, London is seeing more weapon enabled (guns and knives) violence, raising the levels of violence in the city. LA has seen a number of generations of established street gang culture, whereas London is only presently witnessing a massive upsurge of gang culture, along with the violence that goes with it. Perhaps we are where LA was in the sixties/seventies but definately on a negative trajectory. Why is this? In our case its because since the time of Thatchers Government, poverty and social exclusion have grown and New Labour only served to further this - in other words, our governments also began to wage war on the poor rather than truley eradicate poverty from our great nation.

But, there are messages of hope coming from strange quarters right now - check the fall of the Warlords in Mogadishu in Somalia and the sudden coming of peace to a city which was one of the most lawless on our lil' planet - the Islamic Courts Union has run the warlords out of Mogadishu and there is peace! And though the CIA etc will be freaking right now, the ICU has been making statements that it will not force Sharia law on Mogadishu's population, but that it desires democracy, stability and peace. He he, the CIA backed the warlords and screwed up I guess on that one - Somalia's new peace bringers just aren't the Taliban the CIA had been fearing they might be! Back to the drawing board then lads.

So, if there can be an outbreak of peace in Mogadishu, which we can all agree was a more dangerous place than London/LA and wherever combined, then peace can break out anywhere...its a matter of finding out what the critical mass of any place is, the tipping point....Mogadishu became peaceful because the people living there were sick of 16 years of constant street to street war, taxing by militias etc and reached critical mass - a movement in ordinary people aligned with the new rulers all saying 'enough'.

What would it take in LA or London. Hell, wish I was wise!!!!

[Sentenza]

Thats the right answer. America wages war on its own poor, rather than a war on poverty and the causes of poverty.

Perhaps hidden somewhere in the idea of the American Dream, that peeps have to be self-starters and pull themselves up from whatever beginning toward success is part of the problem - people from the poorest and most blighted communities have the odds stacked up against them, may will fail - !!!!

Exactly what i thought.
Most will fail. The american dream is medicine for the poor to stay quiet and unconscient, cause it makes them hope for the day when they will become millionaires. But in fact 99,99999999999% wont.

[Noog]

Yes man. Marx, as we know, once described religion as the opium of the people (also the heart in a heartless world, but thats another story) but perhaps the American Dream has become the opium of the people, a way to bring about control and conformity but all the time under the Babylonian eye of rampant consumerism which has made all buy into the idea that everyone has equal stake in achieving the dream - like hell! The dream is there to silence the critics! Peace

[MiChuhSuh]

The American dream...

Look I've said this before, there is more than one American dream

The one I go by is freedom. Period.

The one most others see is $$$ - well does that reflect the character of the American dream or does that show the character of the people who nly see $$$????

[Sentenza]

The American dream...

Look I've said this before, there is more than one American dream

The one I go by is freedom. Period.

The one most others see is $$$ - well does that reflect the character of the American dream or does that show the character of the people who nly see $$$????

Thats true. But freedom is not exclusively an american dream.
Freedom has been fought for way before america even existed.
The "from dish-washer to millionaire" is exclusively american in my eyes.

But i go with the same dream you have .

[Sentenza]

And another problem i see is, that since this dream is anchored in american society, it frees society and government to do something for the poor, since everybody has equal opportunities and its your own fault if you are poor.

Which is not true in most of the cases.

[MiChuhSuh]

Who said we have equal opportunity?

No society on earth has or ever had equal opportunity. It's an economic impossiblility.

Let me give you an example. I know two twins that are the same in almost every way, same classes, same sports, and same parental and familial support.

One got into UC Berkeley and won countless awards, the other went to UCLA (which isn't bad) and got about half the achievements of his brother.

The one that went to UC Berkeley simply put in more time (I know). So what does that mean?

It means that even if society was equal, at the end of their generation diffeerences would arise. Now that one twin will make more money, even if their kids are the "same" one will have more economic support. And so on and so on.

Even communists (WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES) now admit that their is no such thing as an even playing field, and that the best thing we can do give people the most support possible but not assume that this means eveness.

From my own religion, I believe the closest thing to the nature of my belief is
1. "Private Communism"
2. Public Capitalism

What does "Private Communism" mean? I know it's an oxymoron, but it means what I own I share. On the other hand, I do not expect anyone to return the favor, since I will not force anyone else into communism, which means "Public Capitalism." It would be exceeding my authority to try to force others into doing anything. Even God allows free will, so who am I to force communism in others?



On the other hand many communists in America (different from actually experience communists) practice private capitalism and "all talk" communism. I know on my campus the greediest professor EVER is the only communists and all day long he shouts about how communism is right and that people if educated and given opportunity will not be greedy. But he never chips in money in any activities, doesn't even bring something to parties, and keeps his time and effort only for his required work and never gives extra help to his students. So finally someone approached him and said, "You are preaching communism and assuming human beings are not greedy, but you are the worst form of corrupted capitalism and you yourself act greedy. So why would you believe in a system where it is assumed human beings are not greedy?"

He shut up, but next quarter he was back on the commie train.

[Noog]

Old fashioned idea about ending gang violence....if gang violence can be seen as a reaction to inhamane and unliveable circumstances, of the perverse gaps between rich and poor, those with access to what we need to thrive and those with no access....then a massive nationwide social renewal is the answer...that means states and counties etc starting MASSIVE civic renewal...that means massive programmes of building quality housing stock, it means schools which serve pupils who are the most disadvantaged and are places of excellence, it means big business helping out wholesale by providing access to real training and real jobs, it means real training centres and job creation, it means resources flooding into areas from the roughest and toughest LA hoods to the roughest and toughest Chicago hoods blah blah, it means real healthcare which can be afforded, it means drug rehab available for all, it means...hell, you see what I'm saying...it means social revolution no less...and one which can make use of capital and socialistic thinking without complaining about the old percieved contradictions - Socialistic thinking and capital together...that way, America would truely be the envy of the world...and over a few generations, gang culture would evaporate if social justice where married tio that brave new world. Peace. A dreamer!

[Sentenza]

LOL...I HAVE A DREAM......But its true though.

[MiChuhSuh]

if gang violence can be seen as a reaction to inhamane and unliveable circumstances, of the perverse gaps between rich and poor, those with access to what we need to thrive and those with no access....

Not always true

It definitely affects most young people in gangs, but not all

Big Evil, again, is the perfect example of other motivation

[Sentenza]

if gang violence can be seen as a reaction to inhamane and unliveable circumstances, of the perverse gaps between rich and poor, those with access to what we need to thrive and those with no access....

Not always true

It definitely affects most young people in gangs, but not all

Big Evil, again, is the perfect example of other motivation

Yea, but he must have had a serious mental disorder.
I would consider these people, that exist everywhere around the world as an exception to the rule.

Nobody that is in the right state of mind would go and kill a few dozen random people including his brother.

[Sentenza]

I think the "average gang member" is in a different struggle than Big Evil was.

[MiChuhSuh]

Monster Kody

[Sentenza]

Monster Kody

Not sure what you mean? That he is the same like Big Evil?

If so, i doubt it.

[MiChuhSuh]

See no one is the "same"

Like I'm researching Columbine for example. Everyone got everything wrong because they didn't even bother looking at their specific, unique situations. Instead they made ridiculous generalizations about "youth violence" and it's all BS

[blue eyed devil]

Well as its usually minorities who are in these wannabe thug gangs. So tis simple really, end immigration and toughen the laws. Fuck this race card BS. They only use it because they know White liberals will kiss their asses.

[MiChuhSuh]

Well as its usually minorities who are in these wannabe thug gangs. So tis simple really, end immigration and toughen the laws. fu-- this race card BS. They only use it because they know White liberals will kiss their asses.

WTF?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Man f^ck everyone outside of Africa and the Middle East is an immigrant, you think you started in Europe or America????

and mess you little isolationist theory sorry to say the world doesn't work like that anymore, you got all kinds of people planning BS. Damn commies in my homeland are testing long rang missiles so they can put nuclear warheads on them and you think keeping people out is gonna make you safe?