The God that never was..................

[frozen fire]

Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)

Now the christians they believe, That JESUS WAS GOD.
Now one would think that this idea of JESUS BEING GOD, (one of the basic fundementals of christianity), must be wriiten all over the bible, but in fact there is not ONE VERSE WHERE JESUS SAYS " I AM GOD".
Which is curious, dont you think ?

THE ONLY PROOF THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE US IS THAT HE SHOWED HE WAS A GOD THROUGH IS ACTIONS,
by his CHARACTER, ACTIONS AND PERSONNALITY.

two reasons to prove that Jesus is God, viz: (i) "When we say
Jesus is deity (or even God for that matter), we do not make him the Father! He is one with the Father and therefore HE SHARES HIS NATURE", and (ii) "HE IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE THE FATHER but he is not the Father".

pretty confusing huh??

In short, according to them, Jesus is God because He SHARES THE NATURE OF GOD, and HE IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. These two reasons given by them to prove the divinity of Jesus are so puerile that they speak volumes of it.

Numerous quotations from the Bible are given below to prove that Jesus
neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He can, therefore, NEVER be GOD. I have given the quotations from the Bible without comment, because the Bible speaks for itself!

TO SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD OR SON OF GOD IS NOT ONLY A MOCKERY OF GODHOOD, BUT BLASPHEMY OF THE LOWEST ORDER AND AND INSULT TO THE INTELLIGENCE OF MEN!

LET US START WITH THE BIRTH OF "GOD".

"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the SEED of David according to the flesh." (Romans, 1:3)

"God" was the fruit of the loins of David: "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne." (Acts, 2:30)

The Sex of "God": "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke, 2:21)

How Mary Conceived and Delivered "God". Mary conceived Jesus like any other woman: "The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke, 2:6)
which means that she went through all the normal stages of pregnancy. Nor was her delivery any different from other expectant mothers:
"And she being with child cried, travelling in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation, 12:2)

"God" Sucked The Paps of a Woman: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke, 11:27)

The Country of Origin of "God": "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)
The Occupation of "God": "Jesus was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3), "and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55)
The Transport of "God": "Behold, thy king cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass." (Matthew, 21:5) "And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon." (John, 12:14)

The Wining and Dining of "God": "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew, 11:9; Luke, 7:34)

The Poverty of "God": "And Jesus saith unto him, the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew, 8:20)

The Meagre Possessions of "God": "Shoes of Jesus" (Luke, 3:16), "Garments and coat of Jesus" (John, 19:23)
God" Was a Devout Jew: "And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark, 1:35)

"God" Was a Loyal Subject: Jesus was a good citizen, he was loyal to Caesar. He said: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matthew, 22:21)
He paid his tax regularly. (Matthew, 17:24-27)

I HAVE NOT FINISHED THIS IS JUST THE INTRODUCTION, PLEASE READ ON.

[frozen fire]

Now here is the family of "GOD", complete with in laws
" "God" Was the Son of Joseph: "Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, we have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John, 1:45)

Brothers and Brothers-in-law of "God": "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence hath this man all these things? (Matthew, 13:54-56)

here is the DEVELOPMENT OF "God".
Spiritual Development of "God": "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke, 2:40)
Mental, Physical and Moral Development of "God": "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." (Luke, 2:52)
"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem: "Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast." (Luke, 2:41-42)

HERE IS THE MORE SHOCKING PART..

The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said: "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Time. Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Season: "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)

"God" Was Unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" (John, 7:14-15)

"God" Learnt Through Experience: "Learned he obedience by the things which he sufered." (Hebrews, 5: 8 )

SADLY THERE IS ALOT MORE TO COME.......

THE TEMPTING OF "GOD" The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days: "And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)
The Devil Tempted "God" Continuously: "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season." (Luke, 4:13)
Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things: "But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews, 4:15)

True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil: "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James, 1:13)
Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil: "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James, 1:14)
(THEN WHAT HAS HAPPEND AT THE ABOVE VERSES??)

THE MISSION OF "GOD" The Confession and Repentance of "God": before the beginning of his public ministry: "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew, 3:13),
"which signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6),
"and repentance from sins (Matthew, 3:11).
"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners: "And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." (Mark, 4:10-12)

THE RACIAL GOD!
"God" Was a Tribal Jew: "The lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation, 5:5) "God" Came For The Jews Only: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)

Racial Discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)

According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs: "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26)

The Kingdom of "God": And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke, 1:33)

The Titles of "God": "The king of the Jews" (Matthew, 2:2),
"The king of Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13)

A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD
A Hungry "God": "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2),
"Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew, 21:18),

"and on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

A Thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John, 19:28)

A Sleepy "God": "He was asleep." (Matthew, 8:24), "He fell asleep" (Luke, 8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow." (Mark, 4:38)
A Weary "God": Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well." (John, 4:6)

A Groaning "God": "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John, 11:33), "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave." (John, 11:38)

A Weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John, 11:35)
A Sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew 26:37). "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew, 26:38)

A Hysterical "God": "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy." (Mark, 14:33)

A Weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him." (Luke, 22:43)

[frozen fire]

ITS QUITE LONG I KNOW, BUT ITS ALMOST FINISHED.

THE WARRING "GOD" T
he Strong-Arm Method of "God": "And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought." (Luke, 19:45).

"And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables." (John, 2:13-15)

The "God" of War: Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew, 10:34)

The Sabre-Rattling "God": Jesus said: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke, 22:36)

The "GOD" ON THE RUN
"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1) "God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54)
"God" Has Shown a Clean Pair of Heels: "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John, 10:39)
"God" Fled in Disguise: "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John, 8:59)

THE CAPTURE OF "GOD"
A Friend Betrayed the Secret Hiding Place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus off-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of man and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John, 18:2-3)

"God" Was Arrested, Bound and Led Away: "Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John, 18:12-13)

"God" Was Humiliated: "And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke, 22:63-64).
"Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew, 26:67)
"God" Was Defenseless: "One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said: "Why smitest thou me?" (John, 18:22-23)

"God" Was Condemned to Death: "And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark, 14:64).
"They answered and said, he is guilty of death." (Matthew, 26:66)

The Dumb and Docile "God": "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth." (Acts, 8:32)

THE SUPPOSED END OF "GOD"
The Dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37)

The "God" That Was Supposed Dead and Defunct: "Christ died." (Romans, 5:6). "He was dead". (John, 19:33)

The Supposed Corpse of "God": "he (Joseph of Arimathaea) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." (Matthew, 27:5 8 ) The Shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew, 27:59)

The Orbituary of The Late And Lamented "God": "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, certainly this was a righteous man." (Luke, 23:47)

EPILOGUE

Jesus is God because: (i) "HE SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD", and (ii) because "IN EVERY WAY HE IS LIKE GOD". But according to the quotations of the Bible given above, we find that Jesus did neither SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! The onus to prove that Jesus is God now rests with The Christians. Either they must prove that Jesus is God, or they must admit that they are polytheists,
i.e., a believer in more than one God.

assalamu alaykum

[SniperSVD]

Now the christians they believe, That JESUS WAS GOD.

quote]

no we don't.
sorry im sure there is more but i havn't digested it all yet.

[SniperSVD]

jesus is the son of god, not a god or what ever you tried to elude to.

[A Ghost]

jesus is the son of god, not a god or what ever you tried to elude to.

So Jesus is the son of god?

But I thought humans in general were all gods children?



So Im Jesus's brother?



whoa.........

[EmperorPenguin]

jesus is the son of god, not a god or what ever you tried to elude to.

So Jesus is the son of god?

But I thought humans in general were all gods children?



So Im Jesus's brother?



whoa.........

In catholisism we all came from Adam and Eve making us all brothers and sisters, in Evolution we all came from a single cell organism making us all brothers and sisters.

[BxxMILITIA]

man, its good 2 preach about god/gods, but dont talk about shit ya'll dont kno about...ya'll aint no pastors...if somebody is wrong (in your opinion),
how r u rite???ya dont kno, stop trynna brainwash each other....

[BxxMILITIA]

and about adam n eve? LETS BE SERIOUS....u kno humans came from evolution PERIOD.... it aint that 2 people fell from the sky along with goats n cows n all that other shit....atleast in MY opinion...thats how i feel about it....im not trynna shit all over u, im just sayin'.....

[A Ghost]

and about adam n eve? LETS BE SERIOUS....u kno humans came from evolution PERIOD.... it aint that 2 people fell from the sky along with goats n cows n all that other shit....atleast in MY opinion...thats how i feel about it....im not trynna shit all over u, im just sayin'.....

LMAO!!!!!

I know right

[Brown Street]

frozen fire wrote:

"A perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes"

Where did you come up with this "definition" of a "Perfect God"? In some ways, all of creation shares the nature and attributes of God!

[Tacomahilltop]

how can you argue Allah is the perfect god la ilah ilala there is no god but allah. He is perfect as his 99 names signify. Ar Rahman Ar Raheem.

[Brown Street]

While I not only question your definition, I stronlgy question your statement that "Islam is the only religioon that teaches the existence of a perfect God." How did you come up with that? Orthodox Christianity, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, and all the Protestant groups teach that the Triune God, father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One in Essence and Indivisible, is Perfect.
Now, if your beef is the fact that you do not agree that the God of the Christians is "perfect," that is another thing altogether, and you should simply SAY WHAT YOU MEAN.
I challenge you to find one passage from any of the Christian Churches mentioned where they teach that god is "NOT PERFECT." You have an impossible task before you, because there does not exist such a statement! NONE of them teach that God is "NOT PERFECT."
I sincerely think you mean that by YOUR DEFINITION, YOU THINK nonw of them teach the existence of a perfect God, but, that is a FAR CRY from any or all of them ACTUALLY TEACHING THAT GOD IS NOT PERFECT. You seem to me to be very very mistaken in your statement. It is very important to be clear when discussing such things, and to differentiate from what someone else TEACHES and what you THINK, or what you THINK THEY TEACH.

[frozen fire]

Within Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a perichoresis of three persons (hypostases, personae): Father (the Source, the Eternal Majesty); the Son (the eternal Logos or Word, incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth); and the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete or advocate). Since the 4th Century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "One God in Three Persons," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal "persons" or "hypostases," share a single Divine essence, being, or nature.

"One God in Three Persons,"

Islam is the only religion which teaches the existence of a PERFECT God. A perfect God means that there is no sharer in His Nature and His Attributes:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." (Holy Qur'an, 112:1-4)

[MiChuhSuh]

jesus is the son of god, not a god or what ever you tried to elude to.

So Jesus is the son of god?

But I thought humans in general were all gods children?



So Im Jesus's brother?



whoa.........

Your bodies come from you parents so you are their physical children. Your soul comes from God so you are his spiritual offspring.

Jesus is God's "only begotten son" because aside from Adam and Eve, he is the only one who had direct physical creation from God (God put Him in Mary's womb)

[frozen fire]

1. Jesus Is God Because He Claimed To Be The Son Of God
2. Jesus Is God Because He Is God's Only Begotten Son
3. Jesus Is God Because He Was Born Without A Human Father
4. Jesus Is God Because He Called God The Father
5. Jesus Is God Because He Is Called Messiah
6. Jesus is GOD Because He Received Worship
7. Jesus is GOD Because He is called Lord and God
8. Jesus is GOD Because He Pre-Existed
9. Jesus is GOD Because He claimed Before Abraham Was I am
10. Jesus is GOD Because He had the Power To Forgive Sins
11. Jesus is GOD Because He is the way, the truth and the life
12. Jesus is GOD Because He claims that I And The Father Are One
13. Jesus is GOD Because He Possessed Knowledge of All Things
14. Jesus is GOD Because He Performed Miracles
15. Jesus never claimed to be GOD

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know..." Acts 2:22
For the Christian, the only documents accepted as reporting the words of Jesus are the accounts given in the Bible. However, there are no sayings of Jesus where he claimed "I am God" or "Worship me".
All quotations used to prove that Jesus is divine are implicit, that is, they require interpretation. We are told what Jesus said and then told what he meant.
The primary issue here is not whether Jesus is God, but whether he said that he was equal to God.
The evidence that is presented by the Christian is either inadequate, inconclusive, ambiguous; or unacceptable.

1. Jesus Is God Because He Claimed To Be The Son Of God

In the language of the Hebrew Bible, righteous persons who follow the Will and Plan of God are know as Sons Of God.

"Adam, which was the Son Of God." Luke 3:38

"The Sons Of God saw the daughters of men... And the Sons Of God came in unto the daughters of men..." Genesis 6: 2,4.

"Israel is My Son, even my first born." Exodus 4:22

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9

"The Lord hath said unto me (David), Thou art My Son this day have I Begotten thee." Psalms 2:7.

Also Mat 5:9; Romans 8:14 etc.

Son Of God is a nothing but a metaphorical description commonly used among the Jews.

2. Jesus Is God Because He Is God's Only Begotten Son

The most widely translated sentence on earth is said to be Jesus' statement of John 3:16,

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son..."

Christians wish to say that the word Only Begotten (Monogenis) gives Jesus a special status among all the Sons of God.

However, not all Bibles translate the passage with this key word because some translators have seen the difficulty this causes.

The same word translated as Only Begotten is found at Hebrews 11:17. In this verse the word refers to Isaac. The Bible itself shows that Isaac's older brother Ishmael outlived his father (Genesis 25:9). Therefore, at no time was Isaac, strictly speaking, the only begotten of Abraham.

In the case of Isaac the Church explains that "only-begotten" is not to be understood strictly but must be modified. However, no such modification is allowed in the case of John 3:16.


3. Jesus Is God Because He Was Born Without A Human Father

Does the miraculous birth of Jesus make him a God?

If being born without a male parent entitles Jesus to being God, then Adam would have a greater right to such honor. Adam was born without either a human father or mother.

4. Jesus Is God Because He Called God The Father

The use of the term Father is inconclusive evidence that God was literally Father to Jesus. All Christians use the term when addressing God. The Jews themselves used the term (John 8:41). Jesus told them that the devil was their Father (John 8:44). Of course, he was not speaking literally.

5. Jesus Is God Because He Is Called Messiah

Muslims agree that Jesus was the Messiah. However, Christians have come to believe that there is a connotation of divinity in the word. Messiah is a Hebrew word meaning Anointed, its Grecian form is Christ. Although modern Bibles hide the fact, many individuals are called Messiah. Cyrus the Persian is called Messiah (anointed) in Isaiah 45:1.

Where Bible verses refer to Jesus, translators prefer use the word Messiah or Christ. For all other occurrences, they render only the meaning of the word as anointed. In this way they hope to give the impression that there is only one Messiah. (for details see below)

6. Jesus is GOD Because He Received Worship

The fact that Jesus accepted worship is offered as strong proof of his divinity.

John 9:38: "Lord, I believe, and he worshipped him."

Matthew 28:17 "they saw him, they worshipped him".

The word translated as worshipped in both verses is the Greek word proskuneo {pros-ku-neh'-o} which literally means: "To kiss, like a dog licking his masters hand". (Strong's concordance).

Even Prophet Daniel was worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar:

"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face and worshipped Daniel..." (Daniel 2:46, KJV)

If He was not to be worshipped, why didn't He tell this man to stop? It appears that "worship" was a type of greeting or salutation offered by the king.

In all modern versions of the Bible, when Daniel was worshipped, the word worship has been removed. However, in the case of Jesus, the word worship still remains. (e.g., compare NIV and KJV)

The same trick is applied to the word Messiah/Christ. Messiah is a Hebrew word meaning Anointed, its Grecian form is Christ. Although modern Bibles hide the fact, many individuals are called Messiah. Cyrus ther Persian is called Messiah (anointed) in Isaiah 45:1. Where Bible verses refer to Jesus, translators prefer use the word Messiah or Christ. For all other occurrences, they render only the meaning of the word as anointed. In this way they hope to give the impression that there is only one Messiah.)


7. Jesus is GOD Because he is called Lord And God

An episode is recounted in the twentieth chapter of John and a certain Thomas is quoted as saying, My Lord and My God.

In interpreting this, Christians maintain that Thomas was addressing Jesus by both of these titles. The Muslim would have no objection to the term Lord.

As the Bible explains, the word means Master and Sarah is said to have called her husband Abraham by this title (1 Peter 3:6).

The suggestion that Thomas addressed Jesus as literally being God is a different matter. Jesus had already pointed out that the Hebrew scriptures themselves address men as gods (John 10:34; Psalms 82:6). This would allow for Thomas' use of the term.

However, Paul gave new rules in 1 Corinthians chapter 8, saying that there are many lords and gods ...yet for us there is but one God, the Father,... and one Lord, Jesus Christ...

Christians apply this verse to sort out the ambiguities of Thomas' expression. But now we are left with an unorthodox doctrine, namely that Jesus is the Father.

This ancient heresy has been branded by the Church as Patripassianism, Moarchianism, or Sebellianism. The impossibility of an orthodox interpretation of Thomas is now apparent.

The distinction between Father and Son is essential to the doctrine of Trinity.

The distinction is blurred again when John 14:9 is pressed into service. Here Jesus' reply to a man named Philip is recorded as He who has seen me has seen the Father.

A strictly literal explication would mean the unacceptable doctrine that Jesus is the Father. So interpreters say that Father is here equivalent to God. However, we cannot possibly be obliged to understand that Jesus meant to say that seeing him was exactly the same as seeing God because he was God. Our reason is found in the contrariety of John 5:37 You have neither heard His (God) voice at any time nor seen his form.


8. Jesus is GOD Because He Pre-Existed

At John 8:58 it is reported that Jesus said, Before Abraham was I am.

Even if Jesus meant to claim by these words that he was alive before Abraham was, is it sufficient ground to say that he was divine?

If Jesus lived in heaven then came to the earth it might mean something remarkable, but it would not be enough to establish him as God Christians do not imagine that the prophet Jeremiah had a prehuman existence and find a suitable way of interpreting the words of Jeremiah 1:5 which portrays such a situation, if taken literally.

However not such similar understanding is permitted by the Church in the case of John 8:58!

9. Jesus is GOD Because He claims Before Abraham was I am

In Exodus 3, it is reported that God told Moses I am what I am as most English Bibles translate the Hebrew text. At John 8:58 Jesus says, before Abraham was I am as most English Bibles translate the Greek text.

But here is the key to another deception. The original of the first text is in Hebrew, while the original of the second is in Greek. All but a few of Jesus' words are recorded in Greek.

For two hundred years before the time of Jesus the Jews used a Greek translation of their Hebrew scriptures, the Septuagint. This work translated the key phrase I am of Exodus as HO ON. However, the words of Jesus, I am, have been given in Greek as EGO EMI

If the gospel writer in John 8:58 wanted to tell his Greek-speaking audience that Jesus had imitated God he would have used the familiar words of the Septuagint.

10. Jesus is GOD Because He Had The Power To Forgive Sins

In the second chapter of Mark, Jesus tells a man, Your sins are forgiven (Mark 2:5-10). The fact that Jesus forgave sins is perhaps the action of Jesus which is most commonly seen as being synonymous with divinity since it is argued that only God can forgive sins. The customary interpretation takes the side of the Jews then present who ask, Who can forgive sins but God alone?

But the verse at John 12:49, among others, explains very well how a man could make such a statement. In this verse Jesus denies any personal initiative. (see also John 8:40; 14:10)

This same authority to forgive sins is apparently granted to his disciples: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven... (John 20:23), but it is never suggested that the disciples are thus divine!

11. Jesus is GOD Because He is The Way, The Truth and The Life

I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through me.(John 14:6)

Exactly what this verse is supposed to prove is left vague by the Christian. Does it prove the divinity of Jesus? Is it supposed to mean that God listens to no one except Jesus or those who call on Jesus?

The dictionary shows that the words "way", "truth", and "life" do not automatically carry connotations of divinity. So the Christian insist that the structure of the sentence stresses the way, the truth, and the life, as though Jesus is unique for all time.

Bill Clinton may have been the American President but he is not the first and probably not the last! So language usage alone does not do the job of proving Jesus' divinity.

12. Jesus is GOD Because He Claims That I And The Father Are One

At John 10:30 Jesus is quoted as saying I and the Father are one. The Greek word translated One is HEN. Certain scholars have insisted that the only possible understanding of this word is One in essence or nature.

One need not be a Greek scholar to refute this unjustified claim. A counter example is sufficient. The same word is used by Jesus in John 17:11, 21,22,23 as he includes his disciples in this ONEness, whatever the meaning.

13. Jesus is GOD Because He Possessed Knowledge of All Things

This is a false claim refuted by Jesus himself: No-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the Father. Matthew 24:36.

This verse also denies the claim the God and Jesus are ONE is essence or nature.

14. Jesus is GOD Because He Performed Miracles

Jesus admitted that the miracles he performed were not by his own power:

•...All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven. Mat 28:18

•I cast out devils BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD... Mat 12:28

•I can of mine OWN SELF do nothing... John 5:30

All the miracles performed by Jesus have parallels in the Old Testament. For example:

•Fed the Multitudes: II Kings 4:42-44

•Healed the lepers and blind: so did others I Kings 5:14; 6:17,20;

•Acts 3:7; 5:15-16)

•Brought the dead to life: So did others: I Kings 17:22; II Kings 13:21; Ezek 37:1-14)

•Rose from the dead: So did others Ezek 37:1-14

15. Jesus never claimed to be GOD

And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, 'worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?'" He will say: "Glory to you. Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For you know in full what is hidden. The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5, Verse 116

They do blaspheme who say "God is the Christ the son of Mary." But Christ said "O Children of Israel! Worship God, (who is) my Lord and your Lord." Whosoever joins other gods with God - God will forbid him the Garden, and the fire will be his abode... They do blaspheme who say "God is one of three in a Trinity". For there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5, Verses 72-73.

[Oaktown_G]

viewtopic.php?t=16758

[Sentenza]

and about adam n eve? LETS BE SERIOUS....u kno humans came from evolution PERIOD.... it aint that 2 people fell from the sky along with goats n cows n all that other shit....atleast in MY opinion...thats how i feel about it....im not trynna shit all over u, im just sayin'.....

No, they were made of clay or something...

['X']

[

Your bodies come from you parents so you are their physical children. Your soul comes from God so you are his spiritual offspring.

Jesus is God's "only begotten son" because aside from Adam and Eve, he is the only one who had direct physical creation from God (God put Him in Mary's womb)

WOW! "God put him in Mary's womb??"

['X']

jesus is the son of god, not a god or what ever you tried to elude to.

So Jesus is the son of god?

But I thought humans in general were all gods children?



So Im Jesus's brother?

Good questions, but believe me most christians are gonna come with some way out twisted interpretation to answer these...

[Sentenza]

[

Your bodies come from you parents so you are their physical children. Your soul comes from God so you are his spiritual offspring.

Jesus is God's "only begotten son" because aside from Adam and Eve, he is the only one who had direct physical creation from God (God put Him in Mary's womb)

WOW! "God put him in Mary's womb??"

That is one thing i refuse to believe. That shit is made up.

[worldwide]

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Gen 16:15 And Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram called the name of his son whom Hagar bore [a]Ishmael. (Is this not the father of the Arabs from which muslims started?) Who also was the illegitimate child of abram. yes God blessd him but did not establish His covenant with him.

Gen 17:19 But God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed, and you shall call his name Isaac [laughter]; and I will establish My covenant or solemn pledge with him for an everlasting covenant and with his posterity after him.

The great Muslim prophet of 6 A.D. had a "very great" following of people but did you know the majority of them were christians.

He also tried to wipe out christianity, becuase christians exalted Jesus in the belief that no one enters the Father but by Him which was in opposition to the muslim belief of Allah as the one and only God.

Jesus"s life from conception to crucifixion til He ascended was Gods very way of showing "His" people the love He has for them, the very point of the son coming down into the flesh an taking on our infirmities to the point of death. it takes one of faith to believe in the unseen as the evidence of what we hope to come to pass. The muslims dont see Allah yet thy still believe.

watch the news about the muslim countries they believe in Allah to the point they will strap a bomb to they're selves obliterate everyone in their vicinity for their faith! which is commedable but insipid to all religiosity.

you bashin christianity but your using scripture out of context, know fact from both sides of the fence before you decide to climb it.

[Mcminister]

f*kk u ethiest mothafucka's

['X']

[

Your bodies come from you parents so you are their physical children. Your soul comes from God so you are his spiritual offspring.

Jesus is God's "only begotten son" because aside from Adam and Eve, he is the only one who had direct physical creation from God (God put Him in Mary's womb)

WOW! "God put him in Mary's womb??"

That is one thing i refuse to believe. That shit is made up.

Ditto

[A Ghost]

[

Your bodies come from you parents so you are their physical children. Your soul comes from God so you are his spiritual offspring.

Jesus is God's "only begotten son" because aside from Adam and Eve, he is the only one who had direct physical creation from God (God put Him in Mary's womb)

WOW! "God put him in Mary's womb??"

..sounds like rape to me

[frozen fire]

becuase christians exalted Jesus in the belief that no one enters the Father but by Him which was in opposition to the muslim belief of Allah as the one and only God.

You mock and make fun, of God, by giving him Human Son (one of his creations), and Human Feeling.
ex:
GOD Almighty Changing His Mind:

"How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I treat you like Admah? How can I make you like Zeboiim? My heart is changed within me; all my compassion is aroused."
(Hosea 11:8 )

"So the LORD relented. "This will not happen," the LORD said."
(Amos 7:3)

"and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned."
(Jeremiah 18:8 )

And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite."
(1 Chronicles 21:15 )

Even the birth of Christ...

It is not necessary for God to plant a seed in man or animal. He merely wills it and it comes into being.

" O MY LORD! HOW SHALL I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HATH TOUCHED ME? "
The angel says in reply:
"EVEN SO: ALLAH CREATETH WHAT HE WILLETH:
WHEN HE HATH DECREED A PLAN,
HE BUT SAITH TO IT "BE,"
AND IT IS " (HOLY QUR'AN, 3:47).

[Leaper]

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