How Do You Feel About Illegal Aliens Getting A Drivers Licsn

[Anonymous20]

You guys kill me with that Patriotic Superthug think, and no, I'm not a Damn Muslim, can stand Farrakhan, never have liked that phony in the least, and like i said before,"PaniCC LoCC" this isn't a populartiy contest to me, so i really don't give a damn who you THINK is ignoring me or not, i've gotten quite a few PMs for the other responses. Like i said, i have no problem with other races, but when you start acting like wer're a bunch of dumbasses with out you, then yes, it becomes an issue?

[Lonewolf]

The only intelligent man here is panico. Have you not read how he expresses himself correctly when teaching us imbecils and sub-humans about his superior knowledge and educated mind.

From now on I will participate in forum topics and will address replies in a general sense, so that panico does'nt take it personal and blows a gasket.

[Panik]

a good way to not face the facts. lonewolf fits you, all you doin is selling wolf tickets, and I'm not buyin.

[Anonymous20]

as for you lonewolf. I never said that the DL's had anything to with terrorism. Two different subjects. And terrorism is not even my main concern of the border in Mexico, it's one of many. As for the taxes, you can try to weasel your way out of it, but the fact remains they do not pay their fair share. And the ones that use a different SS#, they are guilty of fraud. Why don;t you look at it this way. There are milllions of people that want to become Americans all over the world. Many of these are willing to go through proper procedures to get here and participate in the normal duties of being a citizen. There are some who would sooner break the law to get here, and continue to break the law a nd cut corners once they are here. Which do you want to become citizens? It's like cutting in line but worse. You have people who but their ass for years to get here, then you have some little #%@& who sneak in and ruin it for others. Even if we give amnesty to these that are already here, they already have a bad track record. THey are not good people, they are criminals from day one, and they will teach their kids the same shittty values. We DO NOT NEED MORE SHITTTTY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. We have enough homoe grown A-holes and do not need to import more.

Do you understand this? Can you look at it from an outsiders point of view? It is wrong to reward ANYONE for breaking the law. And every illegal alien has done it. And of course, the rich have loopholes and avoid their share of taxes too, but that is a different problem. You don't point the finger at someone else to avoid the topic. THEY ARE ALREADY CITIZENS. And they are a problem, does it mean we should just let the entire world take advantage of us too? And you can blame those loopholes on the republicans and bushes new tax cuts just made it worse. But none of this changes the fact that anyone using a fake ss# is lying on their application. If you ran a business, and you caught a citizen lying on their application, they would be fired on the spot. Why should it be different for an illegal?

Also, I never said that they use or abuse the housing. They do abuse the welfare, all they need to do is pop out a kid on our soil, and then the checks start comin. And even without kids they are a drain to ALL PUBLIC SERVICES. I am using logical arguments without bias. I am biased, but I do not let that enter into my reasoning. You have not made one valid point, only excuses and finger pointing. You know what I say is true, you know that it is not fair to anyone else, yet you stand by it. ARE YOU ILLEGAL LONEWOLF? Is that why you are getting so butt hurt? Every single illegal alien is a liar, a criminal, and a thief, stealing money from us, andthey should all be punished. There will come a day. A day when certain areas like LA become a 3rd world area. When taxes can no longer supposrt the population. When the sewer systems are overloaded and streets are so full of holes you can't frive you car down them. You will no longer have running water, and no toilet to flush. No police to call when there is trouble, and not enough schools, so the kids have to just sit in the street all day. Whne things like this happen, all hell will break loose. Why let it get to that point? And when something like this happens, what are wou gonna say? Who are you gonna blame? When LA is no better than the cities of Mexico people flock here from, who will be to blame? Will you point the finger at me? At rich white people? It's not my fault, it won't be their fault, it will be yours, for supporting this BS.

And like I said before, all people are guilty, Mexicans aren;t the only ones, they are just the worst offenders in numbers. And for some reason that I cannot figure out, they seem to be the least interested in making a better life for themselves and their children (not always, but much more so than any other nationality that has ever immigrated here). WHile everyone else comes here and learns the language and makes it a point for their kids to learn english and go to school so they can grow up to get good jobs, for the most part, the illlegla mexican is happy to come here and never learn english, they don;t care if their kids do, they don;t care if their kids graduate and get good jobs, they are happy to just be here and act just like they did where they came from. And then they wonder why they still live in F'ed up neighborhoods, and why they have to work shittty jobs. They just do not have the same values and motivations as everyone else. Can you exxplain that? And don;t say it's because they want to preserve their culture, or that this used to be mexico or none of that, because if your culture is poor, and your country has been a failure since the beginning, there should be no logical reason to hold on to that. Mexico is now, and has always been a crappy, poor country, through no fault of anyone but it's own leaders and people for voting them in. It is a corrupt, morale wasteland. You should not want to bring any of that with you when coming to a new place.

i couldn't agree more.

i'd also like to add -

on the streets, whenever you hear the word "illegal alien" too many people think of mexicans or people of hispanic origin. there are many, many cambodians, filipinos, russians, persians, etc who are also here illegally tearing up the foundations of our society and economy.

do you think it's fair that it took my own mother 20 years to wait for a freakin green card and then go through the governmental process of obtaining citizenship v. someone who in just months, got here illegally (whether he or she be chinese, mexican, russian, or jamaican)?


do you think it's fair to for an american - be it mexican-american, filipino-american, or african-american to have his or her social security number taken only to be sold to an illegal alien for use to obtain a fraudulent DL, credit card, and the like?

i know there people who are here illegally and are low income who need medicare - but what about the low-income AMERICANS (mexican, brown, asian whoever they may be) who need it more? what couldve been done with the money already spent on ER in hospitals that were catered to illegals (whether they be indian, samoan, mexican, etc?

if change needs to be made then change must be made within the countries where each illegal alien has come from and within our own foreign policies in accepting them.

[Lonewolf]

1 - on the streets, whenever you hear the word "illegal alien" too many people think of mexicans or people of hispanic origin"

2 - if change needs to be made then change must be made within the countries where each illegal alien has come from and within our own foreign policies in accepting them.

This immediate 1st assumption in the streets and in all society here in California is what turns the illegals issue into a demonizing accross the board for all of them - that is what I take issue in trying to point out. A lot of people will take the illegals to be the scape goat for all the ills in our economy, health care, security, and infracstructure as a whole, going as far as preaching the doom of this great nation because of it. No real thought is put in place in other just as strong or bigger reasons why our quality of living is going down the drain. No thought given that the biggest and truest law breakers are the ones in office pulling the rug from under you by not looking after your family well being, bowing down to special interests and so on.
No one has given thought that in "fact", there is big time encouragement going on in the big leagues for people to continue to come and work for less wages and no benefits, because the AVERAGE American worker is considered by the BIG CORPORATIONS to be too lazy and unproductive, so what do they do - they outsource nowadays because they can't bring in the large illegal immigration or low skilled legal immigrants like they used to. That is why it takes some people in the legal method - so long to obtain a visa - low skilled in frowned upon - stay in your country, we will come to you is the policy nowadays.
There was time when the war in Viet Nam was still on-going, when I would count hundreds of illegals crossing the border in a big herd on any given night, it was encouraged back then because farming was not as yet modernized as it is today, as well as the manufaturing of this State needed labor, most young men were drafted and the need surpassed the available man power. No one really said anything then or cared about illegal immigration, it served our needs and purposes.
Times have changed, and "I AGREE" that now it has becomed an unwelcoming problem to say the least, for "I TOO" and my family is affected by it. In schools, work availability, medical costs, housing costs, insurance costs, and everything the goes with it. "BUT" I don't blame the illegals for it, because for the most part they all are just coming here for a better chance at supporting their families and giving them a better life, I blame our Goverment and "OURSELVES" for not having better enforcement of the established laws, better competitive opportunities in the world market without sacrificing our industry, creativity, and ingenuity to that all mighty and quick profit for the shareholders "not us at the bottom".
So where is the true problem and where does the real resolution begin ?
Cleaning up the streets of all illegals or cleaning house and putting in place representatives that truly are looking after our well being "society wise".
In my opinion, if you address real causes and issues for the decline in our standard of living you will ultimately come to the illegal question but first off you would come to our own faults.
One thing that I like to point out is the fact that the whole country is having these ills, not just a few States, why ? because their trade and manufacturing as well as other industries have dropped the local scene for easier more profitable places.
Do you really beleive that the Laboratories coming up with new medecines, new treatments, the hospitals coming up with better equipment and facilities are going to pass down freely those services without a cost - be real people. "NO" they will charge you a dollar for every penny they spend, because they are a money making industry just like every thing else, but they'll turn around and blame it on illegals - catching you in a daze of how it used to be so sweet before, "BIG LIE".
Check the history of who built this country, check the workers struggle versus the big and powerful, check the foreign policies of our Goverments past and present and see what kind of deals they make, that would activate populations into migrating here and there.
When you truly revise these things, then come back and tell me that farmers, peasants, and the like are the "real causes of our demise".

[Kemosave]

This isn't my forte and I don't consider myself anywhere on expert on illegals so take this as someone listening and learning.

It seems to me the camps have broken into two camps. In one camp you have Hispanic right's activists mobilizing La Raza to fully legalize the millions of illegals currently here and make life as good as they can for the ones yet to come. In the other camp, you have the whitebread the blacks and some citizens of other cultures fighting to send them home and seal the border.

Now, I see just as many special interests operating in both camps so down that argument in my opinion. But yes there is a tradition of undocumented workers in the USA for the reasons you stated lonewolf. But you are wrong when you say American workers are lazy. Most of the studies I have seen show that American workers work the longest hours overall than anywhere in the world. Just type in "Americans work harder" in any search engine and stand back because the amount of studies proving it will boggle your mind.

Outsourcing is a result of economics forcing Americans to work even harder than they already are to keep their jobs. It's simple math to say if you have a software engineer in the USA that goes for $62k a year and one in India that goes for $18k a year corporations are going to gravitate in our free market system (y=mx+b) to the $18k paradigm.

You are correct in my estimation, however, about most Americans not wanting to work low paying jobs that have historically been filled by immigrants and undocumented workers.

You are also correct that we have reached a point now where there are so many illegals here they are draining resources and forcing up taxes.

[Panik]

they are a big part of it, and like I said before, you just point your finger elsewhere. Yes there are other factors that can be addressed, but the illegal issue is the easiest to address. And the economy is down everywhere, true, but we have added problems that other states do not have because of the immigration. This just makes it worse. Like I have said in another post, there are 2.5 milllion less jobs in the US than there were 4 years ago. In that time how many immigrants came here illigally? we have 4 millions citizens that do not have jobs, yet people are pouring in still. And If you read the paper, you have seen that California was almost 20 billion over budget this year. Many programs have been cut, many of those programs helped lower income families of citizens. They also said that illegal aliens in California alone receive over 7 billion dollars per year in public services. So almost half of our budget problem was illegal related. If we didn;t have to spend that 7 billion dollares on non citizens, then some poor americans could have been helped. And htye deserve it more.

[E`S`T]

THIS THREAD IS INTERESTING. I DROVE IN THE LOS FOR OVER 20 YRS AND NEVER HAD AN INCIDENT WHERE I WAS HIT OR HIT AND COULDNT LOCATE INSURANCE PAPERS BECAUSE OF ILLEGALS. THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. I DO AGREE THAT ILLEGALS DO USE ALOT OF RESOURCES IN CALIFAS BUT THEY GIVE BACK MUCH TOO. ALL ILLEGALS WORKING ALL THE SERVICE SECTOR JOBS IN CALIFAS IS PUMPING SOME MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY AND GOVERNMENT PPL ARE GETTING PAID, AS IS COUNTY OFFICIALS, STATE OFFICIALS AND SO FORTH. THESE GOV'T OFFICIALS HAVE TO KEEP THE ILLEGALS HERE BECAUSE THEY GENERATE REVENUE. YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE GOOD WITH THE BAD. AND WITHOUT THE SERVICE SECTOR, LOS ANGELES WOULD BE NOTHING. I WATCHED THIS DOCUMENTARY ABOUT ILLEGALS IN NY AND PEOPLE WERE HIRING THEM TO DO JOBS LIKE CLEANING BASEMENTS AND NASTY OTHER WORK, FOR $9.00 AN HOUR. THESE PAISAS WISED UP AND WOULDNT WORK FOR ANYTHING LESS. THEY TOLD THE CONTRACTOR, PAY US $9 OR PAY UNION WORKERS $20. THE CONTRACTOR PAID 9 AND STUFF GOT DOEN. EVEN THE CONTRACTOR SAID THAT WHITE, BLACKS, NOBODY ELSE WOULD WORK AS HARD OR GET THE JOB DONE. PPL IN UNIONS WANT SMOKE BREAKS, 1/2 HR. LUNCHES, ETC. SO POINT IS, CA LOOKS AT THE POSITIVE REVENUE ILLEGALS GENERATE AND SUCK UP THE NEGATIVE THAT FOLLOWS THEM. IF PPL ON THIS BOARD DONT LIKE ILLEGALS, MOVE TO MINNESOTA. THERE AREN'T AS MANY AS IN CA. NOT YET, AT LEAST....

[Lonewolf]

Kimo-Sabe my man, "I never said that Americans are lazy", re-read please, it is someone else up in big places branding us as such, my man I'm a teamster and I would discredit myself if I ever said such.
You are right we are working harder and more hours "for less", while others in other countries like Germany and Sweden (if my info is up to date) are working less hours yet still earning comparatively - why is that my man ?
Now the engineers, scientist, and the like do not "as yet" have a problem in this country, and they are not the ones being affected as the rest of us are by illegal immigration, but those at the low end of it all "are" being outsourced.
You mentioned competitiveness in the world markets being a must for this time and age - that sir newton is the thruth and nothing but the thruth as to the real underlying reason why our quality of life is declining, because now the whole world is catching up to our "past" pre-dominance in world trade and have learned the skills well.

[Panik]

This isn't my forte and I don't consider myself anywhere on expert on illegals so take this as someone listening and learning.

It seems to me the camps have broken into two camps. In one camp you have Hispanic right's activists mobilizing La Raza to fully legalize the millions of illegals currently here and make life as good as they can for the ones yet to come. In the other camp, you have the whitebread the blacks and some citizens of other cultures fighting to send them home and seal the border.

Now, I see just as many special interests operating in both camps so down that argument in my opinion. But yes there is a tradition of undocumented workers in the USA for the reasons you stated lonewolf. But you are wrong when you say American workers are lazy. Most of the studies I have seen show that American workers work the longest hours overall than anywhere in the world. Just type in "Americans work harder" in any search engine and stand back because the amount of studies proving it will boggle your mind.

Outsourcing is a result of economics forcing Americans to work even harder than they already are to keep their jobs. It's simple math to say if you have a software engineer in the USA that goes for $62k a year and one in India that goes for $18k a year corporations are going to gravitate in our free market system (y=mxb) to the $18k paradigm.

You are correct in my estimation, however, about most Americans not wanting to work low paying jobs that have historically been filled by immigrants and undocumented workers.

You are also correct that we have reached a point now where there are so many illegals here they are draining resources and forcing up taxes.

well halfway true. But, there are only so many of the really bad jobs that nobody wants to work to go around. There are obviously not nearly enough for the amount of illeggals we already have. I can drive to any city in OC and within 10 minutes I can count 50 illegals standing on corners waiting for work even at lunch time. When it's this llate, these guys missed out for the day. There are too many. Now some will steal SS#'s, but once they do that, they are now taking jobs away from americans. I remember when I was young, I got my first job baggin groceries at 14. Almost everyone I knew had summer jobs or weekend jobs. These were all in the service industry. Fast food, etc. Now, all the illegals through the use of phony ss cards have taken these jobs. YOu can no longer find an english speaking teenager working at any fast food places, or grocery store. I myself needed extra money last year, and I looked everywhere for a 2nd job at night or on the weekends. I looked at grocery stores, fast food, retail stores, hospital, etc. I was turned down almost everywhere, the main reason being that I didn;t speak spanish. Now this wasn;t because I couldn't communicate with the customers, but with the employees. Most of the employees at these jobs are already illegal, so even to work a cashier job where all the customers speak english, you have to be able to speak spanish so you can communicate with the illegals that work in the back. They shouldn't be working in the first place, yet I, the english speaking american with experience lost out while illegals with stolen identification have the jobs. These are not high paying, anywhere from 7 - 10 per hour, but for a 2nd job, they are perfect, and I can imagine this has happened to plenty english speakers that need the jobs full time to support their families. Is this fair?

[Kemosave]

Sam: Honestly I have had it happen twice too but not in LA. Once in San Diego and once in Santa Ana. Both were like over a decade ago. I think they do put some money back in to the economy but take much more out in education, health, etc.. services. I also think having entire schools teaching nothing but Spanish is a negative for the kids themselves and will hurt their ability to earn later in life but that's subjective I haven't seen any stats on that. You are correct in my experience that illegals work very hard for their money and tend to be closeknit.

lonewolf: Right, right. I'm following you. And part of the reason is our own generosity in this country. We have educated them and loaned money to them our entire lifetimes.

Panik: You are correct in my estimation as well.

[Lonewolf]

Alright, now that we all have made our points on the illegal immigration issue and how it affects us every day, we can pretty much discard the driver licence deal because it is a much larger issue correct ?

That is what I was trying to put a light on, because all these other should or shouldn't is just a diversion from the real underlying factors.

But you still can't dismiss that for "a lot" of people it gives them fuel for their hatred fire that wishes to make others sub-human, just because they don't hold a legal status amongst us.

[Panik]

not subhuman, sub american. That is if you are talking to me. Any american is my equal, no matter what color or religion. We all have a common cause. An illegal is a step below for sure.

[Common Sense]

Latino groups are getting ready for a one day boycott on buying gas all across Cali, to protest the illegal alien drivers license controversy. The group wants to show the terminator of the economic power Latinos have in the state.

[Kemosave]

Latinos have a huge influence in this state CA, however, a lot are still not voting despite intense efforts by Hispanic leaders to get them to and no it's not because of the illegal aliens either. They are a small minority of the Latinos in CA. Fifteen years, forget official stats I'm talking on the real, from now all Latinos will be a substantial majority for the first time. Is CA standard of living going down forever? And if so how will social services keep current funding? I don't know. All I know is I view this as important but temporary. My perspective is both on the temporary and the eternal. I care about people especially the poor. For example, I spent half of today finding homeless people and trying to match them with programs. They didn't want any of it on this day because of fear, mental problems, and waiting on their drugs but I tried. I can live in Mexico, Africa, whatever. I know no matter what (even when I am emotional) it is temporary and a better place waits for me. Of course I love living in the USA and support it (which causes some brothers online only to call me pro white though I really am pro-democracy and pro-progress and don't have a racist bone in my entire body) for the obvious but my salvation is not tied to it. Peace out. This soap box.. who can I give it to? CM?

[ElGuero]

Illegal aliens are some of the worst drivers I have ever seen in my life.....these people don't drive in their native countries, but come here, get cars, and pose a danger to everyone on the roads! Think about this, without speaking English, being illiterate/semiliterate in Spanish, and never having driven before, how many of them do you actually think will be able to pass a driving test?????? They want licenses so that they have some kind of legal document in the US so they can use it to find work.....the ones who don't pass the test will drive anyways and nothing will change, except that their behaviour would be rewarded....

No country in the world, not in Latin American countries, no where, allows people to just cross the border and decide to live there. These people simply exchange one form of poverty for another, and are tolerated in the US because they act as cheap labor.....my personal feeling on them is that they are no gain for the US and no loss for their homelands.....

They think that they are better off because they make dollars, but in reality are worse off when you consider the difference in prices, and the fact that they are completely outside of the system and in effect have no rights.......

The border could be closed up, most borders in the world are.....but then the supply of cheap labor that drives wages down in the US wouldn't be here......they benefit the rich, and hurt everyone else, themselves above all.....I'm not against legal immigration, but illegal immigration is a social problemthat hurts everyone and needs to be stopped in my view....

[Mraka]

I feel good.Someone is teached how do drive a car.Better than not knowing how to do it .

Did you think about to punish the fabrics that those "illegal" immigrants are working in.Payed low.Fabricants don`t care for security insurances and so on?