Rizzuto's

[GoombahJoey]

Not to get into an Albanian vs. Whomever debate, but I'd like to point out of few things about the rudaj beef with 2 of the NY crews. The Albos were extremely tough and did muscle the Luccheses out of one of their gambling operations in Queens. They were also willing to stand in the street and have it out with the Gambinos. While the Albos were considered fearless it didn't matter in the end, because they got busted and it killed their momentum. With their momentum dead, the chop shop, the gambling house, the Gambino family table, all went back to the original "owners". Now they're not totally out of operation, but biting the hand that had fed them for years has left them doing little more than selling bootleg DVDs of "Happy Feet" and a stickup here or there.

[thewestside]

Like I've said over and over again, Johnny's reputation is well known on various internet forums. It has come from him trolling them spewing his Albanians rule the world BS for so long. It's why he's been banned from at least three boards, had at least three different names on this one, and finally had to start pretending to be an Italian on the AmericanMafia board so nobody would know who he is. But of course he'll downplay all this or deny it, as if anyone believes his sorry Albanian ass anymore.

[CheGuevara]

By all accounts it has been over the past half century. You are the only one who disputes that, despite the fact you have been wrong about their activity level in Canada over the years. Maybe because you were too busy dreaming of how there was nothing the Italians had the Albanians "couldn't reach."

lol you're such a pathetic excuse for a person. when i wrote that. i said, judging by the summary on one report. i don't see the italians doing anything the albanians can't reach.

the c-c is far from one of the most powerful in the world you jerkoff. you know this as well as i do.

You know what I think about that. They weren't prepared to "take on" the entire family. But I really don't want to get into this dead horse discussion with you again.

Bottom line, the fact that you call the Caruana-Cuntrera clan a "gang" while you all the Rudaj group a "sixth family" says it all.

yes, the rudajs weren't prepared to take on the entire family. they just held up the acting boss as a joke.

whats the difference between a gang and clan in organized crime terms?

[Dobre]

Like I've said over and over again, Johnny's reputation is well known on various internet forums. It has come from him trolling them spewing his Albanians rule the world BS for so long. It's why he's been banned from at least three boards, had at least three different names on this one, and finally had to start pretending to be an Italian on the AmericanMafia board so nobody would know who he is. But of course he'll downplay all this or deny it, as if anyone believes his sorry Albanian ass anymore.

Ever since I posted that picture, just watch, he hasn't said a word to me. That picture is the key to why he should shut his mouth right now, but he doesn't. He only shut up when I come around, he replies to you people, never to me, but he reads it, maybe he has me on ignore, he knows I buried him with that picture.

An Orthodox Christian Macedonian(immortal enemy of the Sunni Muslim Albanians) discussing the fate of a Catholic Albanian(Johnny) with other Catholic Albanians(the people on that forum).

According to him it's not about religion when it comes to Albanians, it's about being unified as Albanians overall.

Of course, that was pretty much proved by how much your own people within your own reach give a shit about you.

I feel bad for your father Johnny, he must slam his head off the wall everyday to know how much of a mistake you turned out to be.

[thewestside]

Not to get into an Albanian vs. Whomever debate, but I'd like to point out of few things about the rudaj beef with 2 of the NY crews. The Albos were extremely tough and did muscle the Luccheses out of one of their gambling operations in Queens. They were also willing to stand in the street and have it out with the Gambinos. While the Albos were considered fearless it didn't matter in the end, because they got busted and it killed their momentum. With their momentum dead, the chop shop, the gambling house, the Gambino family table, all went back to the original "owners". Now they're not totally out of operation, but biting the hand that had fed them for years has left them doing little more than selling bootleg DVDs of "Happy Feet" and a stickup here or there.

With Johnny (CheGuevara) it's ALWAYS an Albanian vs. Whomever debate. And just for the record, the Rudaj guys took over two Greek clubs that were paying tribute to the Lucchese and Gambino families. They never touched mob clubs themselves, though there were plenty of them. Every wonder why that was?

lol you're such a pathetic excuse for a person. when i wrote that. i said, judging by the summary on one report. i don't see the italians doing anything the albanians can't reach.

There is nothing in any report, article, etc. on organized crime in Canada that even hints at the Albanians being at the level of the Italians. This is simply a case of you once again making shit up based on wishful thinking.

the c-c is far from one of the most powerful in the world you jerkoff. you know this as well as i do.

You need to work on your reading comprehension little Albanian boy. I said the Caruana-Cuntrera clan has been one of the most powerful Mafia clans of the last 50 years.

yes, the rudajs weren't prepared to take on the entire family. they just held up the acting boss as a joke.

If that were the case they would have gone after any number of Gambino clubs directly instead of taking over a Greek club that was paying the Gambinos. But they didn't.

whats the difference between a gang and clan in organized crime terms?

The difference is not really the point. Rather, the point is that you choose to use the word "gang" when referring to the Caruana-Cuntrera clan while believing the Rudaj organization was a "sixth family."

[CheGuevara]

With Johnny (CheGuevara) it's ALWAYS an Albanian vs. Whomever debate. And just for the record, the Rudaj guys took over two Greek clubs that were paying tribute to the Lucchese and Gambino families. They never touched mob clubs themselves, though there were plenty of them. Every wonder why that was?

lol talk about irony! this guy claims they never touched mob clubs themselves as if they were scared because of what some poster told him on another forum. talk about reading into things the way you want to.

the albanians took over all lucchese operations in astoria and bitch slapped two members of the family. not associates, members. as for wondering why that is. rudaj's men held up the gambino BOSS at gun point and told his fat italian ass to get the fuck out of here.

There is nothing in any report, article, etc. on organized crime in Canada that even hints at the Albanians being at the level of the Italians. This is simply a case of you once again making shit up based on wishful thinking.

the report azure brought it just went on about how italians are organized in a structure and all that blah blah. while for the albanian section. they didn't say anything but what they did straight up. they said they were involved in this and this and this and stemming out to this. if i were to look at that report alone and isolate it from any other information. i have the right to think the italians and albanian criminals are on the same level in canada. which is why i made my statement. because i was responding to that report. but you take my statement and bring it up now and try to alter it to make people think i used it in another circumstance. it's a brilliant move. especially on this forum because many people are too ignorant to see what you're doing. bravo virgin boy, bravo.

You need to work on your reading comprehension little Albanian boy. I said the Caruana-Cuntrera clan has been one of the most powerful Mafia clans of the last 50 years.

make sure you're clear then virgin boy.

If that were the case they would have gone after any number of Gambino clubs directly instead of taking over a Greek club that was paying the Gambinos. But they didn't.

they had their sights set on astoria and what happened? they took over all lucchese operations down there and a gambino club as well. if they didn't get busted by the feds. no telling how far rudaj would have went. he was probably going to start shaking down the gambino family. it wouldn't come a surprise to me. he pretty much clowned the boss of the family. it's not a big step to tax him as well after that.

The difference is not really the point. Rather, the point is that you choose to use the word "gang" when referring to the Caruana-Cuntrera clan while believing the Rudaj organization was a "sixth family."

the rudaj gang can be called the sixth family just like the nj family is called the sixth family you clown. now i ask you again. what is the difference between clan and gang in organized crime terms?

[thewestside]

lol talk about irony! this guy claims they never touched mob clubs themselves as if they were scared because of what some poster told him on another forum. talk about reading into things the way you want to.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not getting this from another poster. I'm getting this from the known facts. The Rudaj guys were based out of the Bronx. There are plenty of mob clubs in that area but they went all the way to Queens to go after some Greek clubs. That should tell you something.

the albanians took over all lucchese operations in astoria and bitch slapped two members of the family. not associates, members. as for wondering why that is. rudaj's men held up the gambino BOSS at gun point and told his fat italian ass to get the fu-- out of here.

Wrong. The only club of record that was specifically designated as a Lucchese joint was a Greek club called Stamatis, which was paying tribute to the Luchesses. Furthermore, in the press released and indictments, it was Greek operators of this club, as well as the Gambinos' Soccer Fever club, that were assaulted. There has never been a single made member of record who was assaulted by the Rudaj guys. Despite all the claims, funny how not one made guy has ever been mentioned specifically in any article, report, etc. Wonder why that is?

the report azure brought it just went on about how italians are organized in a structure and all that blah blah. while for the albanian section. they didn't say anything but what they did straight up. they said they were involved in this and this and this and stemming out to this. if i were to look at that report alone and isolate it from any other information. i have the right to think the italians and albanian criminals are on the same level in canada. which is why i made my statement. because i was responding to that report. but you take my statement and bring it up now and try to alter it to make people think i used it in another circumstance. it's a brilliant move. especially on this forum because many people are too ignorant to see what you're doing. bravo virgin boy, bravo.

That's your problem right there pal. You read only reports about Albanians alone. Which gives you absolutely no reference to their position with respect to other groups. Which in turn leads you to making stupid statements like there is no level the Italians are at that the Albanians can't reach. And then somebody has to come along and correct you before you say, "Oh gee, I guess I was wrong. Sorry for talking out of my ass.....AGAIN."

make sure you're clear then virgin boy.

I was clear asshole. That's exactly what I said. It's not my fault you can't read you stupid prick. Furthermore, you're the one who says shit that you later have to backpeddle on and say you meant something else. How many times has that happened?

they had their sights set on astoria and what happened? they took over all lucchese operations down there and a gambino club as well. if they didn't get busted by the feds. no telling how far rudaj would have went. he was probably going to start shaking down the gambino family. it wouldn't come a surprise to me. he pretty much clowned the boss of the family. it's not a big step to tax him as well after that.

LOL! Shaking down the Gambino family. Riiiiiiight. Even a dumbass like you doesn't believe that. OK jerkoff, give me a list with sources of all the clubs that were specifically designated as Lucchese clubs. You can't. There is just Stamatis. In any event, this is all old news. The Rudaj group is no more. But it's all you have isn't it? Which is why you keep going back and back to it. Do you realize how pathetic that is? For all your talk about Albanians, the Rudaj guys are the only thing you have.

the rudaj gang can be called the sixth family just like the nj family is called the sixth family you clown. now i ask you again. what is the difference between clan and gang in organized crime terms?

The DeCavalcante family has been active in New Jersey for over 75 years. But nobody would try and compare it to the five New York families. Hell, the Genovese family's New Jersey faction is bigger than the entire DeCavalcante family. But here you are claiming a relatively small group of Albanians that didn't last more than a decade amounted to a sixth family. What nonsense. They may have wanted to be a sixth family. But they never got close.

A clan, in Mafia vernacular, is a group of two or more blood families who come together through blood and marriage. The Carauana and Cuntreras are the main ones in the clan but there are others as well, like the Vellas. The Caruana-Cuntreras are beholden to the Siciliuna cosca in Sicily. Over the past half century, they have been a key part of the international drug trade stretching from Europe to North America to South America to Asia for both the Sicilian Mafia and Calabrian 'Ndrangheta. To call them a "gang" is a misnomer to say the least. The Rudaj organization - now that was a gang.

[CheGuevara]

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not getting this from another poster. I'm getting this from the known facts. The Rudaj guys were based out of the Bronx. There are plenty of mob clubs in that area but they went all the way to Queens to go after some Greek clubs. That should tell you something.

that should tell me they have common sense. why go after clubs owned by gangsters when you can take clubs owned by greeks? a club is a club. even if it wasen't the bit scared of an la cosa nostra member, i would still go after the greek first just because i know there is nothing he could do.

Wrong. The only club of record that was specifically designated as a Lucchese joint was a Greek club called Stamatis, which was paying tribute to the Luchesses. Furthermore, in the press released and indictments, it was Greek operators of this club, as well as the Gambinos' Soccer Fever club, that were assaulted. There has never been a single made member of record who was assaulted by the Rudaj guys. Despite all the claims, funny how not one made guy has ever been mentioned specifically in any article, report, etc. Wonder why that is?

the made members were listed in the indictment as member 1 and member 2. read it again you idiot. and you're wrong again. in the indictment, it said rudaj in the summer of 2004, took over lucchese operations in astoria. the fbi stated made members were beaten up on their website. is that not an article. oh how he contradicts himself!

That's your problem right there pal. You read only reports about Albanians alone. Which gives you absolutely no reference to their position with respect to other groups. Which in turn leads you to making stupid statements like there is no level the Italians are at that the Albanians can't reach. And then somebody has to come along and correct you before you say, "Oh gee, I guess I was wrong. Sorry for talking out of my ass.....AGAIN."

lol, clown boy. i already explained the canada situation. if you wish to bring it up again and again on two different posts at one time, go ahead. i realize you have mental and social problems anyway. i'll let you have this one.

I was clear ahole. That's exactly what I said. It's not my fault you can't read you stupid prick. Furthermore, you're the one who says shit that you later have to backpeddle on and say you meant something else. How many times has that happened?

in your head? many, many times. in a normal, unbiased view, almost never.

LOL! Shaking down the Gambino family. Riiiiiiight. Even a dumbass like you doesn't believe that. OK jerkoff, give me a list with sources of all the clubs that were specifically designated as Lucchese clubs. You can't. There is just Stamatis. In any event, this is all old news. The Rudaj group is no more. But it's all you have isn't it? Which is why you keep going back and back to it. Do you realize how pathetic that is? For all your talk about Albanians, the Rudaj guys are the only thing you have.

i would not be surprised if they started to shake down the gambinos. they held their boss up at gun point. as for the lucchese clubs, you have the list on a number of reports about alex rudaj. i don't even understand your bottom half of this paragraph. you're a social outcast. and not the good kind, i mean a loser lol.

The DeCavalcante family has been active in New Jersey for over 75 years. But nobody would try and compare it to the five New York families. Hell, the Genovese family's New Jersey faction is bigger than the entire DeCavalcante family. But here you are claiming a relatively small group of Albanians that didn't last more than a decade amounted to a sixth family. What nonsense. They may have wanted to be a sixth family. But they never got close.

you know this because you know the exact number of people in rudaj's group right? you're such an idiot. the rudaj group had the right to be called the sixth family. rudaj dealt only with bosses of the five families. he sent collotti to talk the highest members of the families numerous times. he held arnold up at gun point. he had every right to be called that.

A clan, in Mafia vernacular, is a group of two or more blood families who come together through blood and marriage. The Carauana and Cuntreras are the main ones in the clan but there are others as well, like the Vellas. The Caruana-Cuntreras are beholden to the Siciliuna cosca in Sicily. Over the past half century, they have been a key part of the international drug trade stretching from Europe to North America to South America to Asia for both the Sicilian Mafia and Calabrian 'Ndrangheta. To call them a "gang" is a misnomer to say the least. The Rudaj organization - now that was a gang.

lol, your offense to me calling them a gang shows a sickness and unhealthy, physco obsession you have for italian criminals. congratulations, you've become a success in life! take a look around you. you're apartment, you're little computer. this is it for you buddy

[thewestside]

that should tell me they have common sense.

Exactly. They knew there was a certain point they could go to but any further would be crossing a line.

the made members were listed in the indictment as member 1 and member 2. read it again you idiot. and you're wrong again. in the indictment, it said rudaj in the summer of 2004, took over lucchese operations in astoria. the fbi stated made members were beaten up on their website. is that not an article. oh how he contradicts himself!

You claims are not supported by the indictment or press releases of the conviction and sentencing of Rudaj members.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... dictpr.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... tionpr.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... cingpr.pdf

And yes, the article on the FBI's website (which I provided to you) does say made men were beaten up. But it also says the group is no more, which you don't believe. I can be forgiven for being skeptical when not a single made member of record has ever been cited anywhere.

i would not be surprised if they started to shake down the gambinos. they held their boss up at gun point. as for the lucchese clubs, you have the list on a number of reports about alex rudaj. i don't even understand your bottom half of this paragraph. you're a social outcast. and not the good kind, i mean a loser lol.

The only club of record that had ties to the Luccheses was Stamatis. The only club of record that had ties to the Gambinos was Soccer Fever. Those other clubs have never been tied to any Mafia family. And you know damn well the Rudaj gang would never be capable of shaking down a Mafia family in New York. Once again, that's why they went after Greek clubs. But you just keep blowing everything up about Rudaj and his band of merry men to mythical proportions.

you know this because you know the exact number of people in rudaj's group right? you're such an idiot. the rudaj group had the right to be called the sixth family. rudaj dealt only with bosses of the five families. he sent collotti to talk the highest members of the families numerous times. he held arnold up at gun point. he had every right to be called that.

I know the number of people who were indicted as part of the Rudaj Organization, which law enforcement said was the bulk of the group. Furthermore, the FBI itself (in that article you like to bring up) says the group is no more. Looks like that one indictment did the job. Hardly a sixth family.

And it looks like you've been caught in another lie Johnny boy. Rudaj only met with acting Gambino boss Arnold Squitieri once - at the gas station. A meeting which Squitieri called. Who were the "highest members" of the other families that Collotti met with? Name them.

lol, your offense to me calling them a gang shows a sickness and unhealthy, physco obsession you have for italian criminals. congratulations, you've become a success in life! take a look around you. you're apartment, you're little computer. this is it for you buddy

Fact #1 - the Rudaj Organization had no more than a couple dozen members at most.

Fact #2 - the Rudaj Organization was led by two former Gambino associates - Alex Rudaj and Nardino Colletti.

Fact #3 - the Rudaj Organizations' criminal operations consisted of a sports betting operation, a network of about 50 video poker machines, and some gambling clubs in parts of Westchester, the Bronx, and Queens.

Fact #4 - the top leaders of the Rudaj Organization were able to amount a reported $5 million+ in real estate property and other holdings, later confiscated and sold at auction after their conviction.

Fact #5 - the arrest of most of the members of the organization, as well as the convictions of the top six leaders, resulted in the group becoming defunct.

Fact #6- the Rudaj Organization lasted for only about a decade - from the mid-1990's to mid-2000's.


Needless to say, any objective observer can see they amounted much more to a gang than a sixth crime family.

[DutchGangster69]

LOL..ha ha the Rudaj gang that Albanians glorify only had 5 million to their name ...thats pethetic

[thewestside]

LOL..ha ha the Rudaj gang that Albanians glorify only had 5 million to their name ...thats pethetic

Well that's all the government could substantiate. They might well have had more. But the money and property they amassed doesn't come close to that of an entire crime family. As I've said many times, they were more like a single mob crew than a family. But that isn't good enough for Johnny so he exaggerates.

[Azure9920]

lol you're such a pathetic excuse for a person. when i wrote that. i said, judging by the summary on one report. i don't see the italians doing anything the albanians can't reach.

That's not even an argument you fucking retard.

I could pick a homeless man off the streets. Bill Gates hasn't done anything he can't do.
Does that matter?
No?
Why?

Because he hasn't done anything.

The fact that Balkan organized crime garners less attention than the Nigerians in RCMP threat assessment clearly demonstrates how powerful the Albanians are. I'm sure Vito Rizzuto wished he had the influence to infiltrate the RCMP, and manage to cover up reports like that.

[CheGuevara]

Exactly. They knew there was a certain point they could go to but any further would be crossing a line.

right, holding up the boss of the family at gun point. which point was that? you go after the weakest first. that's what i mean't by common sense. rudaj was not scared of any family or any member.

You claims are not supported by the indictment or press releases of the conviction and sentencing of Rudaj members.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... dictpr.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... tionpr.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressrele ... cingpr.pdf

yes they are. look into the indictments you just listed for my claims. you'll find them there.

And yes, the article on the FBI's website (which I provided to you) does say made men were beaten up. But it also says the group is no more, which you don't believe. I can be forgiven for being skeptical when not a single made member of record has ever been cited anywhere.

the group is extinct as a group. but the majority of members survived the indictment. but the leadership was taken out completely. which is why the group no longer has the means of being united into one leadership.

The only club of record that had ties to the Luccheses was Stamatis. The only club of record that had ties to the Gambinos was Soccer Fever. Those other clubs have never been tied to any Mafia family. And you know damn well the Rudaj gang would never be capable of shaking down a Mafia family in New York. Once again, that's why they went after Greek clubs. But you just keep blowing everything up about Rudaj and his band of merry men to mythical proportions.

i wouldn't be surprised at all if rudaj shook down the gambinos or luccheses if he survived the indictment. he took over all lucchese operations in astoria. no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, it's on the indictment.

I know the number of people who were indicted as part of the Rudaj Organization, which law enforcement said was the bulk of the group. Furthermore, the FBI itself (in that article you like to bring up) says the group is no more. Looks like that one indictment did the job. Hardly a sixth family.

which report or article ever said that was the bulk of the group you idiot? there were like 9 greeks indicted which shows that the astoria operations were the ones that got taken down. what about the rest of the albanians in the group? every report said the group was mainly albanian or albanian-american. there were only like 9 albanians in the indictment so what happened to the majority of the group who is albanian? exactly stupid.

the indictment did the job because the entire leadership was taken down. if the gambinos had their boss, all their captains, consigliere, and underbosses taken down at one time, the gambinos would break down completely and the gambinos would be no more.

And it looks like you've been caught in another lie Johnny boy. Rudaj only met with acting Gambino boss Arnold Squitieri once - at the gas station. A meeting which Squitieri called. Who were the "highest members" of the other families that Collotti met with? Name them.

collotti met with consiglieres and underbosses and even bosses. arnold held the highest position in the family at that time. anybody higher than arnold was in jail sleeping with mark the 300 pound black guy.

Fact #1 - the Rudaj Organization had no more than a couple dozen members at most.
Fact #2 - the Rudaj Organization was led by two former Gambino associates - Alex Rudaj and Nardino Colletti.
Fact #3 - the Rudaj Organizations' criminal operations consisted of a sports betting operation, a network of about 50 video poker machines, and some gambling clubs in parts of Westchester, the Bronx, and Queens.
Fact #4 - the top leaders of the Rudaj Organization were able to amount a reported $5 million+ in real estate property and other holdings, later confiscated and sold at auction after their conviction.
Fact #5 - the arrest of most of the members of the organization, as well as the convictions of the top six leaders, resulted in the group becoming defunct.
Fact #6- the Rudaj Organization lasted for only about a decade - from the mid-1990's to mid-2000's.
Needless to say, any objective observer can see they amounted much more to a gang than a sixth crime family.

i was talking about the c-c you moron.

1- you don't know how many members they had you freakin' idiot.
2- so what the hell is your point?
3- and you're forgetting arms trafficking, bank fraud and extortion as well as loansharking.
4- and?
5- no, the arrest of the leadership and many other members. not most of the members. FOR THE LAST TIME YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MEMBERS THEY HAD! why do you keep assuming you do?
6- however long they lasted has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[Faciulina]

if the gambinos had their boss, all their captains, consigliere, and underbosses taken down at one time, the gambinos would break down completely and the gambinos would be no more.

the gambino's would survive the same putting acting boss underboss and captains loool

[Dobre]

if the gambinos had their boss, all their captains, consigliere, and underbosses taken down at one time, the gambinos would break down completely and the gambinos would be no more.

the gambino's would survive the same putting acting boss underboss and captains loool

John Gotti Jr. is jailed as of June 2009.

Speaking of the Gambinos, they have existed since 1916 and still control much of New York City.

And to think, how many operations against the mafia in New York in history have taken down how many made members and associates in total?

Over a 1,000?

[CheGuevara]

if the gambinos had their boss, all their captains, consigliere, and underbosses taken down at one time, the gambinos would break down completely and the gambinos would be no more.

the gambino's would survive the same putting acting boss underboss and captains loool

no they wouldn't actually. the soldiers wouldn't know what to do and when someone tried to step up to become boss and appoint a new regime, he will suffer from death attempts and other such things as everyone will rush to become in the new regime. the gambinos would be defunct.

[Faciulina]

no they wouldn't actually. the soldiers wouldn't know what to do and when someone tried to step up to become boss and appoint a new regime, he will suffer from death attempts and other such things as everyone will rush to become in the new regime. the gambinos would be defunct.

there would be confusion for a little while but after a couple of years and even less they would be completely functional

[CheGuevara]

there would be confusion for a little while but after a couple of years and even less they would be completely functional

how? how would the soldiers make the decision to be boss, underboss, captain, etc...?

[thewestside]

A new administration would be put into place, as well as new captains. But this is all much ado about nothing because there would never be a time when the boss, underboss, consigliere, and every single captain of a New York Mafia family would be imprisoned at the same time. They are simply too big. And they have shown time and time again, year after year, decade after decade, that they have the ability to remain a continuing organization that can replenish and keep going. That is what it's all about. The organization survives despite individuals, even many high ranking ones, being taken down. This is something that an upstart group, such as the Rudaj Organization, did not have and why they were dismantled in a single indictment.

[CheGuevara]

A new administration would be put into place, as well as new captains.

how? by who? there have been bloodshed when even a small change occured in the ruling regime. i can only imagine what would happen if the entire regime went down. jesus, do i really have to draw this out for you? it looks like i do.

this is the genovese family in 2008 prior to the indictment that they just got hit with.


this is the genovese family today after the indictment. only soldiers survived the indictment.


so now tell me, how would they build a new regime? they could attempt such a thing but you know as well as i do that it would lead to blood shed and the destruction of the family.

[CheGuevara]

This is something that an upstart group, such as the Rudaj Organization, did not have and why they were dismantled in a single indictment.

it had nothing to do with the fact that it was a new organization. it had to do with the fact that the ruling regime in the rudaj organization was taken down completely. the remaining members of the rudaj organization cannot take orders from each other as there are only soldiers and associates left.

oh but i forgot, the italians have a golden gene and the soldiers of the family would rebuild the entire regime.

[thewestside]

Again, this is a pointless hypothetical argument because the entire hierarchy of a New York family would never be taken down at one time. That's why Johnny has to resort to hypotheticals.

And yet, the entire leadership of the Rudaj organization was taken down at one time by a single indictment. Which is just one of many reasons why they could not be considered a sixth family like Johnny claims.

Five Mafia families that have existed for the better part of a century in New York and we're all supposed to believe that some upstart Albanian group that didn't last for more than a decade equaled a sixth family.

But hey, it's all Johnny has right? It's why he has to go back and back to Rudaj over and over and over again. It speaks volumes that the Rudaj bust is the defining moment of Albanian organized crime in New York. Well, unless you want to go back to some obscure article about the so called "Balkan Connection" in the 1980's. Or unless you want to talk about some little known Albanian drug kingpin hiding out God knows where.

[CheGuevara]

Again, this is a pointless hypothetical argument because the entire hierarchy of a New York family would never be taken down at one time. That's why Johnny has to resort to hypotheticals.

because i am trying to explain that the five families would not rebuild if the entire regime was taken down at one time.

And yet, the entire leadership of the Rudaj organization was taken down at one time by a single indictment. Which is just one of many reasons why they could not be considered a sixth family like Johnny claims.

what the hell are you talking about you fvcking moron? i was talking about the five families. i wasen't even think of rudaj :S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S, i was talking about the fact that no mafia family would be able to rebuild if their entire regime was taken down.

so if the gambino family had their entire regime taken down, they would not be considered a family?

Five Mafia families that have existed for the better part of a century in New York and we're all supposed to believe that some upstart Albanian group that didn't last for more than a decade equaled a sixth family.

it did equal a sixth family. not at a family that is comparable to the others. but as a minor, mini-family. but it was still big enough where the leaders of the organization met with only the highest members of the other families (boss, underboss, consigliereeeeee)

But hey, it's all Johnny has right? It's why he has to go back and back to Rudaj over and over and over again. It speaks volumes that the Rudaj bust is the defining moment of Albanian organized crime in New York. Well, unless you want to go back to some obscure article about the so called "Balkan Connection" in the 1980's. Or unless you want to talk about some little known Albanian drug kingpin hiding out God knows where.

what on god's earth are you talking abotu again moron? gazmir gjoka's organization put rudaj's organization awayyyyyyyyyy by a longgggggggggggggg shot. and he was just recent. so now the balkan connection is obscure. your BS never stops. fuck you, you idiot. you're just a pathetic excuse for life. you shouldn't live anymore at all. you have no right to have a brain. absolutely no right.

[thewestside]

what the hell are you talking about you fvcking moron? i was talking about the five families. i wasen't even think of rudaj :S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S, i was talking about the fact that no mafia family would be able to rebuild if their entire regime was taken down.

Of course you were. You were trying to say that the same thing that happened to the Rudaj organization would happen to a Mafia family in New York if it's entire leadership were taken down. But it's a stupid hypothetical because it would never happen. And it would never happen because the Mafia families are so much bigger, more complex, more integrated than Rudaj and his gang were. But it just goes to show that you have to resort to lame hypothethicals to try and draw parallels between the mob in New York and Rudaj.

it did equal a sixth family. not at a family that is comparable to the others. but as a minor, mini-family. but it was still big enough where the leaders of the organization met with only the highest members of the other families (boss, underboss, consigliereeeeee)

Oh! So now it's a "minor, mini-family" huh? Well hell, you could say that about any number of smaller criminal enterprises in the city. They are all mini-families, so to speak. But you don't see people trying to side them up next to the five Mafia families. And as I've said before, there are larger and stronger non-Mafia organizations in New York worthy of being dubbed a "sixth family" than Rudaj and his gang were. They couldn't even come up with an original name for hell's sake.

And we've already addressed this whole claim about them meeting with other families. It appears Collotti met once with Lucchese consigliere Joe Caridi, probably after the Stamatis incident. And Rudaj met with Gambino acting boss Arnold Squitieri once after the Soccer Fever incident. That's it. But you talk like Rudaj was sitting down with the heads of all the families week in and week out as their equals, discussing policy, etc. Just more exaggerations from Johnny the fanboy!

what on god's earth are you talking abotu again moron? gazmir gjoka's organization put rudaj's organization awayyyyyyyyyy by a longgggggggggggggg shot. and he was just recent. so now the balkan connection is obscure. your BS never stops. fu-- you, you idiot. you're just a pathetic excuse for life. you shouldn't live anymore at all. you have no right to have a brain. absolutely no right.

That group was based out of New Jersey, not New York, though some of it's defendants lived in New York. And this was the first major Albanian bust in either state since Rudaj. It's like I keep saying, there are multiple huge busts like this, including ones far bigger, involving the Mafia in both New York and New Jersey each and every year. But it's only once in a while that we see a big bust like this involving Albanians which tells you something because they are obviously going to have the biggest presence in the Northeast than anywhere else in the U.S. So let's see here, in terms of major indictments, we had the Rudaj bust in 2004. We had the Operation "Black Eagle" bust in 2009. Maybe in another 5 years we'll see something else from the Albanians who are supposedly squeezing the Mafia out.

[CheGuevara]

Of course you were. You were trying to say that the same thing that happened to the Rudaj organization would happen to a Mafia family in New York if it's entire leadership were taken down. But it's a stupid hypothetical because it would never happen. And it would never happen because the Mafia families are so much bigger, more complex, more integrated than Rudaj and his gang were. But it just goes to show that you have to resort to lame hypothethicals to try and draw parallels between the mob in New York and Rudaj.

whoah, drawing parallels to compare two different groups about one subject. who does that!? why would it never happen to another family? i forgot, the italians are above indictment.

Oh! So now it's a "minor, mini-family" huh? Well hell, you could say that about any number of smaller criminal enterprises in the city. They are all mini-families, so to speak. But you don't see people trying to side them up next to the five Mafia families. And as I've said before, there are larger and stronger non-Mafia organizations in New York worthy of being dubbed a "sixth family" than Rudaj and his gang were. They couldn't even come up with an original name for hell's sake.

they have always been a minor mini-family. never once have i called them as strong as even the colombos. i believe the farthest i've ever went with rudaj is saying he had half the members the colombos did. but to you, your italian criminal radar goes up and it seems like i am saying rudaj is taxing the mafia.

no other organization beat up made men, shut down lcn controlled clubs and held up the gambino boss at gun point and rudaj constantly called himself the don of the sixth family which is probably why the media picked up on that.

And we've already addressed this whole claim about them meeting with other families. It appears Collotti met once with Lucchese consigliere Joe Caridi, probably after the Stamatis incident. And Rudaj met with Gambino acting boss Arnold Squitieri once after the Soccer Fever incident. That's it. But you talk like Rudaj was sitting down with the heads of all the families week in and week out as their equals, discussing policy, etc. Just more exaggerations from Johnny the fanboy!

you don't know how many times they met you idiot! the source never stated how many times it happened. it said collotti would be sent to meet with the lcn, and then they gave an example. so don't give us you're own count of how many times it happened you fvcking italian criminal fanatic.

That group was based out of New Jersey, not New York, though some of it's defendants lived in New York. And this was the first major Albanian bust in either state since Rudaj. It's like I keep saying, there are multiple huge busts like this, including ones far bigger, involving the Mafia in both New York and New Jersey each and every year. But it's only once in a while that we see a big bust like this involving Albanians which tells you something because they are obviously going to have the biggest presence in the Northeast than anywhere else in the U.S. So let's see here, in terms of major indictments, we had the Rudaj bust in 2004. We had the Operation "Black Eagle" bust in 2009. Maybe in another 5 years we'll see something else from the Albanians who are supposedly squeezing the Mafia out.

like i said, indictments don't mean a damn thing. it just shows albanian criminals are doing their job better than the italians both because they are much more aware of people and due to their language, strong culture ties, families in the groups, etc... are much harder to crack down on.

[thewestside]

whoah, drawing parallels to compare two different groups about one subject. who does that!? why would it never happen to another family? i forgot, the italians are above indictment.

The parallels you draw is to try and compare the Rudaj organization to the Mafia, when there is no comparison. Rudaj wanted to be a sixth family, but he never came close.

no other organization beat up made men, shut down lcn controlled clubs and held up the gambino boss at gun point and rudaj constantly called himself the don of the sixth family which is probably why the media picked up on that.

Don't forget taking over John Gotti's old table at Rao's! Don't you see? The fact that you keep quoting this stuff only hurts your case about Albanians. Because it shows everyone that it's all you have to hang your hat on. And frankly, it's not that impressive. Even to this day, when the occassional news article discusses the new OC groups in New York and it comes to Albanians - they STILL go back to Rudaj. Do you know how pathetic that is? But like you, it's all they have. You'll be telling the Rudaj story years from now.

you don't know how many times they met you idiot! the source never stated how many times it happened. it said collotti would be sent to meet with the lcn, and then they gave an example. so don't give us you're own count of how many times it happened you fvcking italian criminal fanatic.

I know the way you phrase it is BS. They did not meet with all the heads of the five families. But you've claimed they did numerous times. This is just one reason why you have no credibility Johnny. You take a few basic facts - that Collotti met with one guy and Rudaj met with another - and then you exaggerate it way out of proportion. If you simply stuck to the facts, you would be better off. But you can't help but exaggerate the Albanians.

like i said, indictments don't mean a damn thing. it just shows albanian criminals are doing their job better than the italians both because they are much more aware of people and due to their language, strong culture ties, families in the groups, etc... are much harder to crack down on.

They mean everything. You have shown that yourself by almost blowing a load in your pants whenever a new case involving Albanians comes up. But, as I said, once it can be shown that Albanian indictments are only a fraction of Mafia indictments, then all of a sudden they don't mean anything. You really expect people to believe this? I don't think so. So then you resort to you own little theories, like Albanians are "doing their job better." Yeah, just like there is less cases in Europe involving the Albanians than the Italians because they are all protected by the KLA or whatever huh? Like I said, you'll come up with any hairbrained excuse rather than admit you overrate the Albanians.

[CheGuevara]

The parallels you draw is to try and compare the Rudaj organization to the Mafia, when there is no comparison. Rudaj wanted to be a sixth family, but he never came close.

actually, he did come close. hsi organization was growing and he seized control of many gambling spots and started challenging the mafia. if rudaj was able to operate for another 5 years. no telling what he would have done to the mafia. he probably would have dug up john gotti and danced with him in front of cnn.

Don't forget taking over John Gotti's old table at Rao's! Don't you see? The fact that you keep quoting this stuff only hurts your case about Albanians. Because it shows everyone that it's all you have to hang your hat on. And frankly, it's not that impressive. Even to this day, when the occassional news article discusses the new OC groups in New York and it comes to Albanians - they STILL go back to Rudaj. Do you know how pathetic that is? But like you, it's all they have. You'll be telling the Rudaj story years from now.

like i said. gazmir gjoka was at least three times bigger than rudaj was at any point of his career. but of course, rudaj is all i have. do you hear yourself?

I know the way you phrase it is BS. They did not meet with all the heads of the five families. But you've claimed they did numerous times. This is just one reason why you have no credibility Johnny. You take a few basic facts - that Collotti met with one guy and Rudaj met with another - and then you exaggerate it way out of proportion. If you simply stuck to the facts, you would be better off. But you can't help but exaggerate the Albanians.

the source stated collotti would meet with lcn members. the source sitself stated collotti meetin and underboss and consigliere. rudaj met with the boss of the gambinos.

thevirginside claims collotti met once with a consigliere and rudaj once with a boss. downsizing?

They mean everything. You have shown that yourself by almost blowing a load in your pants whenever a new case involving Albanians comes up. But, as I said, once it can be shown that Albanian indictments are only a fraction of Mafia indictments, then all of a sudden they don't mean anything. You really expect people to believe this? I don't think so. So then you resort to you own little theories, like Albanians are "doing their job better." Yeah, just like there is less cases in Europe involving the Albanians than the Italians because they are all protected by the KLA or whatever huh? Like I said, you'll come up with any hairbrained excuse rather than admit you overrate the Albanians.

like i said, if the fbi focused on albanians alone. turned all their force towards albanian organized criem, they still couldn't make as many albanian oc indictments as italian. impossible. the language and secrecy barrier is too much.

so now you have all italian and albanian indictments in europe as well? albanian oc is like a dinosaur next to a dog when you compare it to italian oc. the italian criminals simply cannot compete. you go on and on about italians controlling cocaine but you make it seem like controlling heroin is something worthless when heroin alone is worth twice what cocaine is in europe as a business. CLOWN.

[thewestside]

actually, he did come close. hsi organization was growing and he seized control of many gambling spots and started challenging the mafia. if rudaj was able to operate for another 5 years. no telling what he would have done to the mafia. he probably would have dug up john gotti and danced with him in front of cnn.

This just shows how in denial you are. And the reasons you list prove you wrong - that he didn't come close to a New York Mafia family. Which is why you have to resort to another hypothetical! "If he had another 5 years." LOL!

like i said. gazmir gjoka was at least three times bigger than rudaj was at any point of his career. but of course, rudaj is all i have. do you hear yourself?

Again, I was talking about New York. I have all the cases and names you've brought up regarding Albanian organized crime, as well as the ones that I've found through much better sources - not selective Google searches. It's hardly impressive. I still find more cases of Albanians working for the Mafia in New York than operating on their own there.

the source stated collotti would meet with lcn members. the source sitself stated collotti meetin and underboss and consigliere. rudaj met with the boss of the gambinos.

thevirginside claims collotti met once with a consigliere and rudaj once with a boss. downsizing?

More like upsizing by you, you dipshit liar. This is all it says -

Colotti provided a connection to the traditional mob - whether to bargain or deliver threats.

He enabled the organization "to negotiate its way into gaining more territory and to get out of bad situations where the organization was at risk," Treanor said.

For instance, the Rudaj organization "took over from the Luchese family all of the gambling in Astoria in the summer of 2001," Treanor said.

At the time, the FBI videotaped Colotti meeting with Luchese consigliere Joseph Caridi, prosecutor Treanor said.

And after the Albanians shut down the Gambinos' Soccer Fever operation, the government observed Colotti meeting with Anthony Megale, acting underboss of the Gambino family.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/new ... eds__.html

like i said, if the fbi focused on albanians alone. turned all their force towards albanian organized criem, they still couldn't make as many albanian oc indictments as italian. impossible. the language and secrecy barrier is too much.

More like their activity level and the threat they pose isn't that much.

so now you have all italian and albanian indictments in europe as well? albanian oc is like a dinosaur next to a dog when you compare it to italian oc. the italian criminals simply cannot compete. you go on and on about italians controlling cocaine but you make it seem like controlling heroin is something worthless when heroin alone is worth twice what cocaine is in europe as a business. CLOWN.

Dinosaur next to a dog? LOL! C'mon Johnny, keep 'em coming!

[DutchGangster69]

i doubt the italians control the cocaine its imported through spain and the netherlands the most and through other ports

[DutchGangster69]

mostly spain unless the mafia is set up there

[CheGuevara]

This just shows how in denial you are. And the reasons you list prove you wrong - that he didn't come close to a New York Mafia family. Which is why you have to resort to another hypothetical! "If he had another 5 years." LOL!

at most, the guy amounted to half the colombos if even that. so he actually didn't come close. but he was gaining ground fast.

Again, I was talking about New York. I have all the cases and names you've brought up regarding Albanian organized crime, as well as the ones that I've found through much better sources - not selective Google searches. It's hardly impressive. I still find more cases of Albanians working for the Mafia in New York than operating on their own there.

lol, of course you do. albanian criminals who work for the loud and flashy mob usually enjoy the jail life afterwards. it serves them right. flash don't last baby

what are these websites where you get all your prime information from? and when you gonna lay the indictment comparisons for us?

More like upsizing by you, you dipshit liar. This is all it says -

Colotti provided a connection to the traditional mob - whether to bargain[i] or deliver threats.

LOL!!

For instance, the Rudaj organization "took over from the Luchese family all of the gambling in Astoria in the summer of 2001," Treanor said.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the time, the FBI videotaped Colotti meeting with Luchese consigliere Joseph Caridi, prosecutor Treanor said.
And after the Albanians shut down the Gambinos' Soccer Fever operation, the government observed Colotti meeting with Anthony Megale, acting underboss of the Gambino family[/i].
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/new ... eds__.html

like i said, here they just gave us two examples. it doesn't mean they are isolated incidents.

like i said, if the fbi focused on albanians alone. turned all their force towards albanian organized criem, they still couldn't make as many albanian oc indictments as italian. impossible. the language and secrecy barrier is too much.

More like their activity level and the threat they pose isn't that much.

which is why they are taking over new york

[thewestside]

at most, the guy amounted to half the colombos if even that. so he actually didn't come close. but he was gaining ground fast.

It took the Colombos decades to get where they are. But we're supposed to believe Rudaj and his band of merry men were going to do it in five if not taken down by the FBI? Riiiiiiight.

what are these websites where you get all your prime information from? and when you gonna lay the indictment comparisons for us?

I'm still compiling all my research. But I half mixed feelings about posting it because we both know that you'll find some lame excuse to dismiss it because it proves you are dead wrong. Even though I also have links, as well as all the official government websites I have obtained them from.

Colotti provided a connection to the traditional mob - whether to bargain[i] or deliver threats.

For instance, the Rudaj organization "took over from the Luchese family all of the gambling in Astoria in the summer of 2001," Treanor said.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huge text - another one of the Johnny ingredients I listed. Notice how Johnny focuses on just the "delivering threats" part at the exclusion of "whether to bargain" and "to negotiate its way into gaining more territory and to get out of bad situations where the organization was at risk." Another Johnny ingredient - Cherrypicking! Also, there is no record of the Rudaj gang beating up any Colombo associates. But hey, why should that stop the myths right? Like when they through Lucchese guys out of a club naked. LOL!

like i said, here they just gave us two examples. it doesn't mean they are isolated incidents

So, as usual, all you have are assumptions. Yet you come here and talk as if them meeting with all the administrations of all the families was a fact. See what I mean?

which is why they are taking over new york

I know that you know this isn't true.