Rizzuto's

[thewestside]

the calabrese criminals might be more international in scope but the n'drangheta can't even equal half of what the mexican cartels are.

Can't equal half of what? What is your basis for this comment?

[CheGuevara]

Can't equal half of what? What is your basis for this comment?

let me clarify. the n'drangheta does not equal even half of the mexican cartels in terms of power, wealth or anything.

[Faciulina]

let me clarify. the n'drangheta does not equal even half of the mexican cartels in terms of power, wealth or anything.

you're wrong and you know it ndrangheta is stronger than mexican cartels it controls more drugs and it's far more international mexicans are present only in united states they are nobody in europe australia and canada... the ndrangheta alone is stronger than cartels imagine the whole italian syndicates including cosa nostra and camorra loooool

[thewestside]

let me clarify. the n'drangheta does not equal even half of the mexican cartels in terms of power, wealth or anything.

Again, what is your basis for this comment?

Of course this is a rhetorical question because I know you don't have one. You don't know enough about either the Mexican Cartels or the 'Ndrangehta to even make a comparison. You simply talk out of your ass and make stupid statements. Same old Johnny.

[CheGuevara]

my basis for this comment is that the mexican cartels are active in hundreds of cities and that they control as you say "virtually all the drugs coming into the biggest drug market."

not to mention they have money laundering, legitimate property, prostitution, theft and all of that in mexico as well as in america. that is my basis. if you deny this, then your even more dillusional than i thought you were.

i find it funny that you did not correct faciulina when he just said the n'drangheta controls more drugs than the mexican cartels. i guess he doesn't piss you off because he's pro-italian. sad old person you are.

[Faciulina]

it's logic ndrangheta is stronger and more powerful and yes it controls more drugs the ndrangheta own entire cocaine lands in colombia it is everywhere included mexico itself and the whole south america it is present in all 5 continents and dozens of countries instead mexican are present only in some america cities and maybe guatemala looool only a retard can think they can compete with the ndrangheta... ndrangheta is at least 3 or 4 times stronger than mexican cartels

[thewestside]

my basis for this comment is that the mexican cartels are active in hundreds of cities and that they control as you say "virtually all the drugs coming into the biggest drug market."

not to mention they have money laundering, legitimate property, prostitution, theft and all of that in mexico as well as in america. that is my basis. if you deny this, then your even more dillusional than i thought you were.

i find it funny that you did not correct faciulina when he just said the n'drangheta controls more drugs than the mexican cartels. i guess he doesn't piss you off because he's pro-italian. sad old person you are.

I already said that if drugs are taken as a single factor, the Mexicans have a bigger stake than the 'Ndrangheta. So yes, I did disagree with Faciulina. But the Calabrians are more international in scope and have a much wider diversity of operations. Virtually every major organized crime group is involved in money laundering. The Mexican cartels have become more involved in human smuggling, and there are some groups that are involved in things like robberies, stolen goods, kidnapping for ransom, etc. But as a whole, drugs is far and away their bread and butter.

[CheGuevara]

I already said that if drugs are taken as a single factor, the Mexicans have a bigger stake than the 'Ndrangheta. So yes, I did disagree with Faciulina. But the Calabrians are more international in scope and have a much wider diversity of operations. Virtually every major organized crime group is involved in money laundering. The Mexican cartels have become more involved in human smuggling, and there are some groups that are involved in things like robberies, stolen goods, kidnapping for ransom, etc. But as a whole, drugs is far and away their bread and butter.

i never said anything about scope. scope and power are two different things complete although they do often relate when defining the power of an organization. the n'drangheta still does not stand half as strong as the mexican cartels. you copy and paste me and put the n'drangheta is the best light possibly all the while you don't copy and paste faciulina but simply give him an "i don't agree" which you don't even tell him but tell me instead. why? simply because he is exhagerrating italians and not another ethnic group.

[thewestside]

i never said anything about scope. scope and power are two different things complete although they do often relate when defining the power of an organization. the n'drangheta still does not stand half as strong as the mexican cartels. you copy and paste me and put the n'drangheta is the best light possibly all the while you don't copy and paste faciulina but simply give him an "i don't agree" which you don't even tell him but tell me instead. why? simply because he is exhagerrating italians and not another ethnic group.

When talking about how powerful an organization is, scope of operations is a major factor. You make this claim that the 'Ndrangheta is not half as strong as the Mexican cartels but you have no basis for saying this and can't even make sound arguments for it. So don't blame me for calling you on your BS.

[Faciulina]

the ndrangheta being far older because it was created at the ending of 1300s, far richer because it accumulated BILLIONS AND BILLIONS in the years and far more entrenched and present in ALL the continents, it's logically far stronger than mexican cartels that are relatively new in the organized crime scene

[CheGuevara]

When talking about how powerful an organization is, scope of operations is a major factor. You make this claim that the 'Ndrangheta is not half as strong as the Mexican cartels but you have no basis for saying this and can't even make sound arguments for it. So don't blame me for calling you on your BS.

lol, what on earth does the n'drangheta control? 80% of cocaine in europe? mexicans control 90% of cocaine in america. what else does the n'drangheta control? tell me.

tell me how the n'drangheta would come to even the half way mark of the cartels. explain how. i'll explain. they can't.

[Faciulina]

lol, what on earth does the n'drangheta control? 80% of cocaine in europe? mexicans control 90% of cocaine in america. what else does the n'drangheta control? tell me.

tell me how the n'drangheta would come to even the half way mark of the cartels. explain how. i'll explain. they can't.

ndrangheta controls the whole cocaine in europe australia and canada mmmhhhh so a market over 600 millions people mexican controls cocaine in united states only 300 millions people... so who control more drugs fucking moron?
the ndrangheta on the contrary of cartels is involved in tons of other business like gambling construction firms extortions weapons etc. and it's present in dozen of countries and in ALL 5 CONTINENTS the cartels only in mexico and some american cities there is not comparison simply there is not any comparison the ndrangheta is too strong

[thewestside]

lol, what on earth does the n'drangheta control? 80% of cocaine in europe? mexicans control 90% of cocaine in america. what else does the n'drangheta control? tell me.

tell me how the n'drangheta would come to even the half way mark of the cartels. explain how. i'll explain. they can't.

You keep making these comments when you know very little about the 'Ndrangheta so you are not really in a postion to make comparisons. Again, you go by simple assumption. And instead of actually doing any of your own research before making an ass out of yourself, you simply say stupid things and then expect others to provide you with the information you should have had before even making a comparison.

The 'Ndrangheta is one of four major syndicates that make up the Mafia in Italy. It is based in the Calabrian region in southern Italy but operates throughout Italy, Europe, and around the world including in North America, South America, Africa, and Australia. It is reported to be made up of about 160 clans with a total of 6,000 members and ten times as many associates.

With it's exceptionally strong ties to both the Colombian and Mexican cartels, the 'Ndrangheta controls an estimated 80% of the cocaine smuggled into Europe. It is also the single biggest trafficker of drugs in Australia and a major trafficker in Canada. In addition to narcotics it is involved in a host of other activities including arms trafficking, human smuggling, extortion (60% of the businesses in Calabria pay protection), loansharking, illegal gambling, counterfeiting, kidnapping, fraud, embezzlement, blackmail, labor racketeering, political corruption, infiltration of legitimate industry, money laundering, illegal toxic waste disposal, cigarette smuggling, stolen goods, etc. The 'Ndrangheta owns or controls literally hundreds of legitimate firms - construction companies, boutiques, cafes, supermarkets, nightclubs, discotheques, waste disposal companies, auto dealerships, betting parlors, real estate, shipping companies, and so on. With estimated annual profits that are in the tens of billions of dollars, the 'Ndrangheta alone makes up anywhere from 2.9% to 3.5% of Italy's GDP.

[CheGuevara]

and again i will ask you, how does this equal even half of what the mexican cartels are?

n'drangheta controls 80% of cocaine smuggled into europe?
the cartels smuggled 90% of cocaine smuggled into america, a market which is over twice the size in terms of profit.

n'drangheta has 6,000 members? REALLY!?
Mexico's two most deadly drug cartels together have fielded more than 100,000 foot soldiers - an army that rivals Mexico's armed forces.

[CheGuevara]

also take into account on how thewestside fails to copy and paste faciulina and tell him that stupid 600mn and 300mn drug market comparison he just made was stupid and ignorant because america's cocaine market is over twice as big as europe's cocaine market.

[Azure9920]

and again i will ask you, how does this equal even half of what the mexican cartels are?

n'drangheta controls 80% of cocaine smuggled into europe?
the cartels smuggled 90% of cocaine smuggled into america, a market which is over twice the size in terms of profit.

n'drangheta has 6,000 members? REALLY!?
Mexico's two most deadly drug cartels together have fielded more than 100,000 foot soldiers - an army that rivals Mexico's armed forces.

So, did you just skip the last paragraph, or what?

[CheGuevara]

So, did you just skip the last paragraph, or what?

no but i feel as if i don't need to answer to that. the guy is talking about construction companies, boutiques, cafes, supermarkets, nightclubs, discotheques, waste disposal companies, auto dealerships, betting parlors, real estate and shipping companies as if the mexican cartels haven't bought everything he stated except for maybe waste disposal companies. and he talks about 60% of calabria paying the mob. but he doesn't take into consideration that the mexican cartels are probably putting the squeeze on thousands and thousands of businesses in mexico as well.

[thewestside]

no but i feel as if i don't need to answer to that. the guy is talking about construction companies, boutiques, cafes, supermarkets, nightclubs, discotheques, waste disposal companies, auto dealerships, betting parlors, real estate and shipping companies as if the mexican cartels haven't bought everything he stated except for maybe waste disposal companies. and he talks about 60% of calabria paying the mob. but he doesn't take into consideration that the mexican cartels are probably putting the squeeze on thousands and thousands of businesses in mexico as well.

"Probably putting the sqeeze on thousands and thousands of businesses in Mexico as well." Probably this. Probably that. Once again, Johnny just goes by his own assumptions when he doesn't have any actual facts. While the Mexican cartels launder their money through legitimate businesses, they are not involved in systematic extortion of businesses like the Italian Mafia is.

n'drangheta has 6,000 members? REALLY!?
Mexico's two most deadly drug cartels together have fielded more than 100,000 foot soldiers - an army that rivals Mexico's armed forces.

Notice how Johnny ignored the fact that in addition to the 6,000 members of the 'Ndrangheta, it also has an estimated 60,000 affiliates. And I should point out that the numbers regarding the 'Ndrangheta are much more documented than that single estimate of 100,000 for two Mexican cartels.

I didn't want to get into profit estimates but since Johnny wants to, I should point out that Italian officials have estimated the annual turnover by the 'Ndrangheta alone at 44 billion Euros alone in 2007. It was said that it's drug business made up 27.2 billion Euros or 62% of it's income.

[CheGuevara]

and the mexican cartels made $26bn (i think this was the exact number) on cocaine alone. so again, what is your point?

[thewestside]

and the mexican cartels made $26bn (i think this was the exact number) on cocaine alone. so again, what is your point?

Well, my first point is that it is always very dubious to base your argument on organized crime profit estimates. Because they are often all over the place, even from official sources. I've seen many discrepencies for the profits of the drug trade here in the U.S., including for the Mexicans. And drug profits are the worst of all because you have to factor in production level vs. wholesale level vs. retail level, as well as the price differentials from one country to another and even from one region or state to another.

But even before that, my point is that you simply don't know enough about either the Mexicans or Italians to make any kind of comparison. Just like you don't know enough about the Russians and Italians to make any kind of comparison. You have repeatedly shown you only have the most basic of knowledge of any group other than Albanians. Yet you keep coming on here and acting like you have the slightest clue in the world.

[CheGuevara]

when faced with the obvious. your only comback is to claim i have only basic knowledge of other groups except albanian organized crime. the fact is, your a nut for italian organized crime. the chinese mafia is without a doubt bigger on an international scale. they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less. they have more members than the italians. but yet, this is not enough for you because you don't want it to be so. the russians operate in many more countries and have a bigger membership than the italians. but this isn't enough for you.

now you're claiming n'drangheta can equal half of the entire mexican cartels which controls the entire united states drug trade except for heroin which i think they control only half of. you show no reason to think otherwise. you go off talking about discos and construction and supermarkets as if the mexicans have not bought entire companies and industries in mexico. your problem is that you think the italians are special. you think they have something nobody else does. when in actuality, they are just another organized crime group. at best, the 4th strongest in the world after the chinese, russian and albanian criminals.

[Azure9920]

they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less.

What do you base this on?

[CheGuevara]

they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less.

What do you base this on?

it was on a source that i brought in, didn't you see it? type $200bn on search, it'll pop up.

[Azure9920]

they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less.

What do you base this on?

it was on a source that i brought in, didn't you see it? type $200bn on search, it'll pop up.

So, just that single sentence in the book you didn't read? Yeah, I seen it; I was hoping you had something with a little more substance.

[CheGuevara]

So, just that single sentence in the book you didn't read? Yeah, I seen it; I was hoping you had something with a little more substance.

lol, i bet you if you go click $200bn and chinese mafia on google that that estimate will appear on numerous sources.

[CheGuevara]

what do you know? i did that same thing in and in secound found another source that backs my first source up. huh? who would have thought? i guess the italians are not made of gold afterall :S:S:S:S:S how weird.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=ef_VT6z ... t&resnum=7

[Faciulina]

faced with the obvious. your only comback is to claim i have only basic knowledge of other groups except albanian organized crime. the fact is, your a nut for italian organized crime. the chinese mafia is without a doubt bigger on an international scale. they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less. they have more members than the italians. but yet, this is not enough for you because you don't want it to be so. the russians operate in many more countries and have a bigger membership than the italians. but this isn't enough for you.

looool triads don't earn 200 billions that's your assumption and there is not any accurate source to proof it china is a semi-dictatorship it's impossible the central goverment let they earn so much moron italy is different there is democracy and the mafia is the major player there even stronger than central goverment itself

now you're claiming n'drangheta can equal half of the entire mexican cartels which controls the entire united states drug trade except for heroin which i think they control only half of. you show no reason to think otherwise. you go off talking about discos and construction and supermarkets as if the mexicans have not bought entire companies and industries in mexico. your problem is that you think the italians are special. you think they have something nobody else does. when in actuality, they are just another organized crime group. at best, the 4th strongest in the world after the chinese, russian and albanian criminals

ndrangheta is far stronger than mexican cartels it was created in 1300s it earns several more billions it's more entrenched more organized and it has a permanent structure with cerimonies... yeah lol albanians are in the top 4 in the world so they are stronger than mexicans that you love so much? shut up moron albanians are not even in the top 10 globally

[thewestside]

when faced with the obvious. your only comback is to claim i have only basic knowledge of other groups except albanian organized crime. the fact is, your a nut for italian organized crime. the chinese mafia is without a doubt bigger on an international scale. they pull in $200bn a year while the italians pull in much less. they have more members than the italians. but yet, this is not enough for you because you don't want it to be so. the russians operate in many more countries and have a bigger membership than the italians. but this isn't enough for you.

This is a perfect example of how you have no idea what you're talking about. You stumbled across the figure of $200 billion in some book for the Chinese when you were doing one of your Google searches and you use that as your basis to make comparisons. LOL! And I already told you that if you read the book Octupus: The Long Reach of the International Sicilian Mafia, it quotes $250 billion for the Italian groups. But I don't quote this because my arguments and the extense of my knowledge doesn't depend on some cherrypicked figure I came across. How many members of Russian organized crime are there Johnny? And how many countries do they operate in? You're talking out of your ass.

now you're claiming n'drangheta can equal half of the entire mexican cartels which controls the entire united states drug trade except for heroin which i think they control only half of. you show no reason to think otherwise. you go off talking about discos and construction and supermarkets as if the mexicans have not bought entire companies and industries in mexico. your problem is that you think the italians are special. you think they have something nobody else does. when in actuality, they are just another organized crime group. at best, the 4th strongest in the world after the chinese, russian and albanian criminals.

You fucking hypocrite. It's you who thinks the Albanians are special. It's you who builds Albanians up to mythical proportions. Ask anyone here. I don't think the Italians are special. I think you don't have enough knowledge on any of these groups to be making comparisons. You are an ametuer. A punk 17 year old coming on this board and acting like he has a clue in the world.

[CheGuevara]

This is a perfect example of how you have no idea what you're talking about. You stumbled across the figure of $200 billion in some book for the Chinese when you were doing one of your Google searches and you use that as your basis to make comparisons. LOL! And I already told you that if you read the book Octupus: The Long Reach of the International Sicilian Mafia, it quotes $250 billion for the Italian groups. But I don't quote this because my arguments and the extense of my knowledge doesn't depend on some cherrypicked figure I came across. How many members of Russian organized crime are there Johnny? And how many countries do they operate in? You're talking out of your ass.

your knowledge comes from what you want it to be first and actuality second. it was two books which quoted the $200bn number.

You #%@&#%@ hypocrite. It's you who thinks the Albanians are special. It's you who builds Albanians up to mythical proportions. Ask anyone here. I don't think the Italians are special. I think you don't have enough knowledge on any of these groups to be making comparisons. You are an ametuer. A punk 17 year old coming on this board and acting like he has a clue in the world.

which is why you copy and paste anyone who mentions the italians and exhagerrates and puts them in the best light possible while with any other group, you give a mere two sentence brief and usually an under statement. proof? look at the way you reply to faciulina and he makes claims like the italians have killed more in the last two weeks than the albanian chicken theives in it's entire history. you don't copy him and call him a moron or a fruitfly or a fanboy as you do and explain to him the albanian mafia is a global force. instead you either don't answer him or give him a "not true." while if it was anybody, even a mental patient like faciulina claiming the same for the mexicans in comparison to the italians, you would go nuts and go on a posting rampage.

you're biased and you exhagerrate about the italians. this is true and you know it.

[thewestside]

your knowledge comes from what you want it to be first and actuality second.

Now it's gotten to the point where you simply regurgitate what I say about you. Ask anyone here on this forum which one of us goes on pure wishful thinking regardless of the facts. It ain't me pal.

it was two books which quoted the $200bn number.

Oh, two books huh? Well that's a whole lot to base your stupid claims on. And what would the second book be exactly?

which is why you copy and paste anyone who mentions the italians and exhagerrates and puts them in the best light possible while with any other group, you give a mere two sentence brief and usually an under statement. proof? look at the way you reply to faciulina and he makes claims like the italians have killed more in the last two weeks than the albanian chicken theives in it's entire history. you don't copy him and call him a moron or a fruitfly or a fanboy as you do and explain to him the albanian mafia is a global force. instead you either don't answer him or give him a "not true." while if it was anybody, even a mental patient like faciulina claiming the same for the mexicans in comparison to the italians, you would go nuts and go on a posting rampage.

I don't even read 95% of Faciulina's stupid posts. And I wouldn't read many of your's but your posts are often in response to mine or if I'm talking with someone else, you'll stick your Albanian nose into it.

[Faciulina]

look at the way you reply to faciulina and he makes claims like the italians have killed more in the last two weeks than the albanian chicken theives in it's entire history.

i never said it you moron i was talking about north italy and germany just of those areas... when i lived in north italy i always read local newspapers and i saw calabrians and sicilians gunned down almost daily and very little about albanians the same in germany but you are so illiterate you can't even read my posts

explain to him the albanian mafia is a global force

loooool since albanians are a global force? they are only in europe i don't care what you think and your dreams they are nobody out of europe and even in europe they are nobody compared to italian mafia you know it and i know it

[CheGuevara]

Now it's gotten to the point where you simply regurgitate what I say about you. Ask anyone here on this forum which one of us goes on pure wishful thinking regardless of the facts. It ain't me pal.

Oh, two books huh? Well that's a whole lot to base your stupid claims on. And what would the second book be exactly?

as much as you like you think you're some kind of unbiased expert on organized crime, you're not. everything you accuse me of can be thrown your way. take a look at your first posts on this board. you were claiming albanian organized crime is more on the level of japanese organized crime if even that. you backtrack, exhagerrate, manipulate, flat out lie, or diverse the conversation when you're proved wrong. and i posted the source in the last page of this thread i think it was. go check.

I don't even read 95% of Faciulina's stupid posts. And I wouldn't read many of your's but your posts are often in response to mine or if I'm talking with someone else, you'll stick your Albanian nose into it.

although i agree faciulina doesn't even deserve a response (as i'm not giving him any anymore). but the only reason you ignore his stupidity is because he exhagerrates about the italians. if some idiot like him said albanians killed more in one week than the italians in their entire history. you would wage a posting war against him asking him how and post up all italian killings and stuff and you would pretty much make this board a sole argument between you two. no matter how stupid he is. but since faciulina's stupidity is in favor of the italians. you merely choose to ignore him and say he's not worth responding to.