Perongregory, I was from the Biggest crew in AMERICA, OFA k , we were predominantly a chicano crew, and alot of homies didnt even write. At one point we were about 4000 deep from LB to SGV to the NORTH . The homies were teh ANTIGANG of the 90s we dressed crazy, red -green , fliped up caps shredded pants, tattooed spray cans on us, and NO ONE had our style NO ONE dressed like US and we WERE the most popular thing in ALL Los Angeles for teh simple fact that we were always throwing the best parties on a large scale,see FOX UNDRCOVER, raves. The majority of the scene during the mid 80s to 95 was all us. We were non violent and kinda just wanted to get wasted and kick it . Thru this time we rented teh LONG BEACHS amphitheater and queen mary bash of 91-93, andI can honestly say taggers from all over LA knew OFA, everyone wanted to be us. Blacks werent really there , perongregory and I aint lying! The KWS were a black crew with respect , but they started getting into SYC and other crip hoods early in the game. And they dressed black. Asian predominantly filipinos, were heavy in the mix SNR, RNSK, STS< STK , big crews of pinoys from Carson Cerritos, LONG BEACH , but blacks???nah man! I aint even fronting ! were just not present. Homeboy above said whites were deep --yea they were aroud, but most dressed like mexicans and acted jsut like us --the group SUBLIME -one of AMericans most famous Alternative groups --were members of KFS, a crew heavily chicano. Look at their getdown, and youll see WHITE-MEXICAN in their lyrics and tattoo style.
Did you mean to quote pistolslanga? No one said that Mexicans didn't dominate the hip hop graff scene in the west, but they didn't create it, blacks did on the east. And we did more than music and dance, way more, just like the precursor to your modern day cholo was heavily influenced by the east coast black gangster. That's on yall to neatly say well whites do politics, and Asians do technology, and Mexicans art, and blacks music....nah, you got all kind of people doin all kind of shit influencing alot of people.[/quote]
The argument can be made that their were black gangs before the crips and bloods in LA. However, were these crews gangs or simply hang out boys? Essentially , my argument states that the unique style of LAs underground is ALL chicano ALL day. It seems unfathomable that citys like Detroit, ChicAGO, Nyc, The south dont have anything similiar to crips and bloods, that gangs like Black P Stones, BGD, Folks came up as quickly as they faded out. Although still around , to some extent they are fractured incohessive and ,essentialy dozens of lesser gangs coming from the original gang. Texas for example has no long standing chicano gang, predonminately and historically chicano citys like El Paso, San Antonio..etc etc, have a history of street gangs going back to the 1850's yet not one gang today in those citys is over 30 years old. Black gangs throughout the nation dont have the numbers and history LAs crips and bloods do. Consider that gangs like the White Fence, El Jardin, 38th street, Clanton , Maravilla, Harpys, Sotel, The Lott, CAnta Rana, Gaherty Lomas, Rockwood....on and on and on, are gangs that go beyond any gang of any race anywere in the entire United States. These gangs have history , longer then the zootsuit history that seems so essential to blacks pointing out chicano gang history ---not just a few years history , in some cases , these gangs are 3o years older then zootsuit culture. The style of chicanos is consistantly being potrayed as bootlegged off of black east coast culture. But the argument is a moot point being that much of the entire style of underground is chicano, and most of it predates any black gang in the nation. The artistry and tattoing of chicanos is seen all over the United States, by all ethnicitys. Click on any YOUTUBE video of asian gangs and youll see them sporting and wearing gang insignia exactly in the fashion of LAs gangster chicano culture. Graffiti and wall art is said to have originated with Puerto Ricans in NYC, now blacks lay seige to this also. It seems that although history shows blacks over and over again coming after ethnic gangs(italians, chicanos) that they dont even blink twice before tilting the brim hat wore by italians or taking italian names CAPONE, GOTTI, LUCASSEY, and then claiming ,portraying and saying that since the brim is tilted its ALL BLACK ALL DAY. Essentially the same argument is being ade by THE REAL, and others that since the dickies are sagging or since the bandana is tied on the forehead , or that they button the first 2 buttons on their flannels instead of one, it is now BLACK. I can not imagine US doing the same , so shamelessly. Its actually ridicolous to see ICE CUBE< ICE T>THE GAME> SNOOP> , looking so much like LA chicanos. Click on the photos of the ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, and tell me they arent imitating LA mexican gangsterism?Now take a look outside the SOCAL, and see the style of much of white culture and style of dress, the FOX, the dickies, the tatts, SUBLIME>LINKING PARK>CYPRESS HILL> and tell me that Aint my peoples swagger ? Thing is blacks are so delusional they think we copied them!? I know from personal experience it to be as so. Now the graffiti scene argument is as such --it started in the East Coast by blacks --yet somehow their wasnt but a few reputable black crews-in LA. Muc of what constitutes blacks arguments on this forum goes the same. Essentially--that blacks on the EAST COAST and WEST COAST and SOUTH, are not a single unit--which I think is a BS argument! These are not 2 different ethnicitys like say ETHOPIANS and AFRICAN AMERICANS are to an extent different or MEXICANS and CUBANS and MEXICANS and PUERTO RICANS. This is one sole group with the same history ! How many black families in LA have their roots in LOusiana, Chitown, Mississippi?? Most !! Yet for whta its worth only in LA did blacks adopt the EXACT same culture as LAs chicanos. Too many similarities for this man, too many coincidences and too much smioke screen![/quote]
I been to Mexico DF and kicked it with the crew ILSK down there. They got a movement down there that is very much similar to what you saw waaaay back in time in NYC, as far as graff. The handstyles and pieces are prolly more similar to LA's current and past styles, but what they're doing is 100% based off of New York before then. The graff magazines, the clothing with tagging on them, the music videos, has been done before in other places. Maybe somewhat similar to the LA scene some years ago, in the mid to late 90's or so. They love hip hop that is more similar not to Chicano Rap but to 90's golden era hip hop which was "ALL BLACK" at that point, the Latinos were blocked out of hip hop music for years except for the REALLY talented cats like Pun. Even back in the days, though Latinos were writers (they did not single-handedly originate graffiti and wall-art like you say) and were rocking in Rock Steady and being undercover Latinos like Prince Whipper Whip, Zulu Nation was the cornerstone of hip hop music, very much based in Afrocentrism, African identity, African rhythm. So sure, there was Puerto Rican influence in graffiti and breaking, especially uprocking, which was born in Bushwick BROOKLYN, a Latin-dominated neighborhood. You couldn't rock a leather vest with the gang symbol, 'colors', if you were in a gang, and one of the first uprocking crews Dynasty Rockers was the first to be allowed to wear the vests as a non-gang, and were mostly Latino. All of that culture that was being put forward by Latinos, though, was tied back to African roots unconsciously, people knew the deal. Most knowledgeable Latinos recreating Salsa, playing anything with congas, being in touch with their spiritual background with Santeria and the like (all based off of African roots), wearing elekes (beads) even as Latin Kings, will somehow acknowledge, directly or not, the basis of much of their music, philosophy, non Christian spirtuality and knowledge of self, as coming from the Black Diaspora and mutating through contact with Europeans and Natives and changing through time.
What I can say is that Mexican culture has waaaay more Indigenous / Mayan / Native / influence that I had ever thought, that went wayy deeper and farther back than Black influence, and who knows how much of that influence is still in Chicano culture, just as much as the religion and morals of the European Catholic faith. The shit that predates the zootsuit style and all the gangs of old in LA. The indigenous influence that is very separate from the culture of the Caribbean, which was the breeding ground for the Latin-African bond that informed the birth of Hip-Hop music and culture in NYC, the same culture that codified wall-writing in tags and pieces as it exists today in LA, the gangs of that same time. In a way I'm sure you want to take the heavy influence of Native culture and the uniqueness of that and apply it to modern day. I can tell you right now that all the Latino practitioners of music and art that is inherently Nuyorican (that's it's own thing, they even Salsa dance on the THREE count not like Dominicans and Mexicans who Salsa on the ONE count) while they're proud of their own culture are not separating themselves from the African roots, at least the non-racist ones aren't, the ones who are into knowing facts and real history. So you can talk about Blacks and Asians and Whites jacking the way Mexicans flipped an older idea, but you gotta isolate that shit out. You talking about music? Then HELL no. Cypress Hill got Bobo on the congas, you think that shit isn 't African? The tattoos I will definitely give you. But then you say 'my people's swagger' in that way which you have to admit, is kind of Black, no?
Blacks dress cholo in LA, because of Chicano influence, but Mexicans in NYC dress Black because of more predominant Black influence and LACK of Chicano culture to assimilate into. There was a motherfucker in DF that was a durag wearing, big hip hop clothes wearing(even the character on this fools shirt was a Black cartoon) Blood! Cause he was from out in Corona, Queens originally. What I'm saying is that you're claiming Blacks steal culture but you are only pointing out instances where Blacks are being influenced by their surroundings, you're not talking about instances where mexicans and Chicanos are being influenced by theirs, for example, playing Banda which came from Polka music of Polish missionaries, getting into the Punk scene in LA, and rapping and doing Hip-Hop that is based off of what Afrika Bambaataa built and studied from elsewhere.