Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

[youngspade]

Go to Chicago and You will still SEE P. Stones. They even GOT 20-30 other gangs forming gangs under the People Nation, but take the "Stones" at the end of there name. Plus, most of the Oldest ELA gangs are Maravilla thats a true known fact and with you guys killing your own a nice CHUNK of history will be GONE! But Stpmes was around WAY before, the google your searching! They talk about the NEW P Stone Nation, the OLD, is forgotten and mixed with BS. The Old P. Stone nation. HAD everyone what you see except Latin Kings. All the Kings and Chiefs you have today was IN and UNDER ONE NATION. Larry Hoover was one of them......so please shutup~! and even THEN HE WASNT Nothing until they all went to make King Cobras, Vice Lordz, GDs etc! All came from Black P Stones!


And the end of this quote will be,

take a RIDE in Englewood in Chicago, I didnt even name half the places ive been just to let you know......ive been to KANSAS City/St. Louis and MOST of them niggaz snakes and BITCHS!

[mayugastank]

....might just be me...

but why is it that its always a mexican who starts a racial conflict/debate....?....

I think in general Peron, you might be right -but essentially my argument is alot less racial then it is protective, we get absolutely no credit for all the cultural nuiances that form the USA street. Things that are at the core of our culture are outright taken, the tattoo thing REALLY gets to me. Iam sure when you heard Chino Grande take a chunk out of black history by claiming rap as his it bothered you. My argument is essentially the same - the tattoing culture in this country is almost entirely latino, dont quote me on who started it first( Islanders-MAUROYS), but the style and design of just about ALL except for some tribal are all the way EAST LA. When I see white chicks in Denver sporting roses on their wrists or stars on their ankles, or white boys sporting tattoo chains, and old E, and blacks getting the teardrops and on and on and on, its at the core of my peoples culture. Its our artistry, our culture their ripping off and mass producing. NO ONE ever had and did what we do, when it came to that part of us , up until after the mid 90s and now its everywere!....it isnt just like RAP ,peron, where white boys grow out of it , or you just flip the channel to some alternative. These are permannent markings, warrior designs -and BOLD in your face shout out to contemporary white culture and mainstream AMERICA that chicanos used to show WE DONT GIVE A FUCK.......taking that is taking our very soul. And we got bitches like KAT VON DUTCH and all these white boys slanging my peoples essence for 60 bucks an hour , hell yea it pisses me off.

[perongregory]

....might just be me...

but why is it that its always a mexican who starts a racial conflict/debate....?....

I think in general Peron, you might be right -but essentially my argument is alot less racial then it is protective, we get absolutely no credit for all the cultural nuiances that form the USA street. Things that are at the core of our culture are outright taken, the tattoo thing REALLY gets to me. Iam sure when you heard Chino Grande take a chunk out of black history by claiming rap as his it bothered you. My argument is essentially the same - the tattoing culture in this country is almost entirely latino, dont quote me on who started it first( Islanders-MAUROYS), but the style and design of just about ALL except for some tribal are all the way EAST LA. When I see white chicks in Denver sporting roses on their wrists or stars on their ankles, or white boys sporting tattoo chains, and old E, and blacks getting the teardrops and on and on and on, its at the core of my peoples culture. Its our artistry, our culture their ripping off and mass producing. NO ONE ever had and did what we do, when it came to that part of us , up until after the mid 90s and now its everywere!....it isnt just like RAP ,peron, where white boys grow out of it , or you just flip the channel to some alternative. These are permannent markings, warrior designs -and BOLD in your face shout out to contemporary white culture and mainstream AMERICA that chicanos used to show WE DONT GIVE A fu--.......taking that is taking our very soul. And we got women like KAT VON DUTCH and all these white boys slanging my peoples essence for 60 bucks an hour , hell yea it pisses me off.

Perongregory did not write that, that was pistolslanga...that's the second time you confused me for pistolslanga

[mayugastank]

....might just be me...

but why is it that its always a mexican who starts a racial conflict/debate....?....

I think in general Peron, you might be right -but essentially my argument is alot less racial then it is protective, we get absolutely no credit for all the cultural nuiances that form the USA street. Things that are at the core of our culture are outright taken, the tattoo thing REALLY gets to me. Iam sure when you heard Chino Grande take a chunk out of black history by claiming rap as his it bothered you. My argument is essentially the same - the tattoing culture in this country is almost entirely latino, dont quote me on who started it first( Islanders-MAUROYS), but the style and design of just about ALL except for some tribal are all the way EAST LA. When I see white chicks in Denver sporting roses on their wrists or stars on their ankles, or white boys sporting tattoo chains, and old E, and blacks getting the teardrops and on and on and on, its at the core of my peoples culture. Its our artistry, our culture their ripping off and mass producing. NO ONE ever had and did what we do, when it came to that part of us , up until after the mid 90s and now its everywere!....it isnt just like RAP ,peron, where white boys grow out of it , or you just flip the channel to some alternative. These are permannent markings, warrior designs -and BOLD in your face shout out to contemporary white culture and mainstream AMERICA that chicanos used to show WE DONT GIVE A fu--.......taking that is taking our very soul. And we got women like KAT VON DUTCH and all these white boys slanging my peoples essence for 60 bucks an hour , hell yea it pisses me off.

Another thing I have given much props to blacks on their retaining some symbolence of cultural after 400 years of bondage. Creating in the mix something distinctively AFRICAN yet AMERICAN. I dont know ANY other group who has done such a thing in the world --most people when faced with such a conflict would either fold or assimilate. As history has shown most minority groups to do in the face of overwhelming odds. Its a testament to a strong culture that can withstand half a millenia of attack. My people were not able to do as such --look at the AZTEC culture. Completely top to bottom gone. Their might be some hint of indigenous but really it is so suppressed. I dont think blacks even consciously held on to their culture it kinda just followed them. As for Mexicans --man we are living some sort of pipe dream, not really even identifying with who we REALLY ARE. Cuz if you want to get down to it we should be shooting things with darts, and hunting fools for sacrifices. BUt whatever, we have made the best of what we have --and dude above said that essentially he believes we are foreigners but me and mine and many many many chicanos in ELA, dont even have a relative in Mexico.

[youngspade]

I respect you more, now,

SALUTE to real!

[Silencioso]

Heres something I picked up on alski1.......guess what crew he was from ? KOS, knocking out suckers.....a mexican crew !! MEXICAN! The first writers in LA were PRs , and although some go with blacks --their are plenty in NYC who dont speak a lick of english. I had homies who wouldve killed you for calling them black who were PRs.


The first taggers in L.A. weren't PR! You're talking completely out of your ass now. I was there, fool! The first writers in L.A. were black hip hoppers and white alternative culture types. Then local kids starting picking up on it. Then the scene got huge.

If you can't get the history of something that happened 25 years ago right, why should anybody believe what you say about the god damn 1910's or 1940's.

[Silencioso]

OH wow! the first black gangs go back to the 50s in chicago!! oh wow! lets see the NEWEST GANG in ELA is older then the oldest black gang in AMERICA.

The newest major gang in East Los is probably that lame KAMS gang, who started up in the 90's I guess. East LA has many newer and short lived gangs like Stoners 13, Indiana Dukes, Tiny Boys and The Lott. It's not all ancient gang like El Hoyo MV and White Fence over there.

[Silencioso]

Take a look at the ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, pictures. NOW does that look like your average buncha white guys?

Of course they don't! They're a f***en prison gang! How do you expect them to look? Like a bunch of emo kids?
The truth about the AB is that they're really more bikers and rednecks/cowboys than anything. They're not KKK or neo-nazi types for the most part. Nor are they white cholos.

[tysuave]

This has to be by far one of the dumbest topics ever on this site.

[youngspade]

Take a look at the ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, pictures. NOW does that look like your average buncha white guys?

Of course they don't! They're a f***en prison gang! How do you expect them to look? Like a bunch of emo kids?
The truth about the AB is that they're really more bikers and rednecks/cowboys than anything. They're not KKK or neo-nazi types for the most part. Nor are they white cholos.

NOW THE WHITES look more MEXICAN than ANYBODY

[xxx]

im to young,ive been seeing taggers and crews since i was 5,ive seen hundreds and hundreds of taggers and never once a black one

Blacks were doing Hip Hop Grafitti in L.A in the Early to Mid 1980's.

There were Black Crews and Writers all over the Place....

Get that History of Los Angeles Grafitti Book

1980's----------

LTS~ Mid City (Mark 7)
RTA ~ West Adams
DEF ~ Imperial/Western Area (Clever)
KIL ~ Farifax ARea
DCK ~ Fairfax Area
UCA ~ Baldwin Hills Area
SCA ~ Inglewood Area
COA ~ Crenshaw Area
TSK ~ Crenshaw Area
NBT ~ Crenshaw Area
RTD ~ St Bernard High SChool Students

WCA ~ had niggas too

KWS ~ Western & Florence Area
- was started by niggas

NTS ~ South Central/Hunington Park Areas
-was started by Flex a Black dude aka Slowpoke from 5 Tray Avalon Gangsta Crips

--------------------------

In the Early-Mid 1980's, Blacks were into Breaking,Poppin, Rappin, Grafitti...

Niggas in L.A were on the New York tip for a minute, even Crips & Bloods were Breakin & Poppin..

We all know Hip Hop Grafitti came by way of New York to L.A by Blacks, i dont think there were any Mexicans in New York back then, and Puerto Ricans in L.A was slim to none...

Blacks backed away from Grafitti in the Late 1980's / early 1990's

[xxx]

You cant dispute that Mexicans were the first Gang Bangers in Los Angeles.

Mexicans were doing back in the 1920's, What exactly they were doing in the 1920's is any ones guess, but they had grouped up and gave themselves names, mostly naming their group after a City, Area, or old Agricultural Colony the Whites had them Slaving On...

Blacks started grouping up in the 1940's, along Central Avenue, Dowtown L.A / South Central Areas, thats where Blacks allowed to own houses..

Blacks coming from Chicago, New Orleans, and Harlem New York brought the Jazz Culture with them, the Music, the Clothing, the Dancing, the Be Bopin, the whole 9 yards... (Zoot Suits)..............

--------------

Blacks from New York that migrated to Los Angeles in the Early 1980's brought the Hip Hop Culture with them, Grafitti, Rappin, Breakin, DJ'in, th e whole 9 Yards.....

----------------------------
Blacks created the Jazz Culture, Rock in Roll, and the Hip Hop Culture, no disputing that..

Mexicans created the Barrio Culture.................


Blacks bite off of Mexicans

Mexicans bite off of Blacks

And thats who it is/was..................

[mayugastank]

Heres something I picked up on alski1.......guess what crew he was from ? KOS, knocking out suckers.....a mexican crew !! MEXICAN! The first writers in LA were PRs , and although some go with blacks --their are plenty in NYC who dont speak a lick of english. I had homies who wouldve killed you for calling them black who were PRs.


The first taggers in L.A. weren't PR! You're talking completely out of your ass now. I was there, fool! The first writers in L.A. were black hip hoppers and white alternative culture types. Then local kids starting picking up on it. Then the scene got huge.

If you can't get the history of something that happened 25 years ago right, why should anybody believe what you say about the god damn 1910's or 1940's.

Youdont have a clue -----stick with what your name says ---SILENT, just shut your dumbass up, go to school and learn to type a grammatical sentence. Name one black crew outside KWS that had any clout in LA or the South! YOu fruit cake ---You didnt read the article dumbass, it stated that ALSKI was Puerto Rican --It didnt say PRs started the scene out here, however it did reiterate what I been saying that the very first crews WERE chicano in LA, alski, whom I know personally was from KOS, and KOS was a straight chicano crew one of the biggest outside OFA. To this date I cant think of ANY real black crews out here. Even in citys like Compton , Watts, Inglewood. The hotspots of Black culture in LA , their werent any notable crews. The biggest crews in those citys were in order KCC, WEC, KOS............all were MEXICAN crews!The group SUBLIME one of the biggest most listened to alternative groups in AMERICA, were members of KFS, a mexican crew, iN LB. Just listen to their Lyrics. Besides that you swang on the nuts , you probably just some low budget immigrant with an oversized belt , who bought his first spray can at HOME DEPOT. Aint no chicanos outside of East LA, all the rest of you just mixedin with Salvadoreans and got here yesterday types who cant put an outfit together unless the shit got snakeskin and dingle berrys.

[mayugastank]

im to young,ive been seeing taggers and crews since i was 5,ive seen hundreds and hundreds of taggers and never once a black one

Blacks were doing Hip Hop Grafitti in L.A in the Early to Mid 1980's.

There were Black Crews and Writers all over the Place....

Get that History of Los Angeles Grafitti Book

1980's----------

LTS~ Mid City (Mark 7)
RTA ~ West Adams
DEF ~ Imperial/Western Area (Clever)
KIL ~ Farifax ARea
DCK ~ Fairfax Area
UCA ~ Baldwin Hills Area
SCA ~ Inglewood Area
COA ~ Crenshaw Area
TSK ~ Crenshaw Area
NBT ~ Crenshaw Area
RTD ~ St Bernard High SChool Students

WCA ~ had niggas too

KWS ~ Western & Florence Area
- was started by niggas

NTS ~ South Central/Hunington Park Areas
-was started by Flex a Black dude aka Slowpoke from 5 Tray Avalon Gangsta Crips

--------------------------

In the Early-Mid 1980's, Blacks were into Breaking,Poppin, Rappin, Grafitti...

Niggas in L.A were on the New York tip for a minute, even Crips & Bloods were Breakin & Poppin..

We all know Hip Hop Grafitti came by way of New York to L.A by Blacks, i dont think there were any Mexicans in New York back then, and Puerto Ricans in L.A was slim to none...

Blacks backed away from Grafitti in the Late 1980's / early 1990's

NBT was all the way MEXICAN, NOTHING BUT TROUBLE, they had crews in WATTS that were bigtime fitted in with the GRAPES Varrio ...a click off my crew OFA, KWS we know their story. The rest I cant even tell you about cuz they werent around when I was doing it and aint never even heard of them! Consider CBS, city Bomb Squad , KOs, KCC, OFA, KFS, M2k (mob 2 Kill) these are crews that started in the 80s and got bigger up until about 96' when they put the green light on us.

[mayugastank]

OH wow! the first black gangs go back to the 50s in chicago!! oh wow! lets see the NEWEST GANG in ELA is older then the oldest black gang in AMERICA.

The newest major gang in East Los is probably that lame KAMS gang, who started up in the 90's I guess. East LA has many newer and short lived gangs like Stoners 13, Indiana Dukes, Tiny Boys and The Lott. It's not all ancient gang like El Hoyo MV and White Fence over there.

Fool ! You dont know a thing......ROCKWOOD 13, GAHERTY LOMAS, WF, CLOVER, DOGTOWN ,EASTLAKE, AVENUES, EAST LA RIFA, HAZARD, SOTEL, EL SERRENO, EL SEGUNDO--some stretch into NELA, and EAST SIDE but most those clicks started out here in the spot. EL JARDIN, VARRIO NUEVO ESTRADA, CANTA RANA, fuck what your MAP SAYS, East LA runs into WHITTIER and FOUNTAIN VALLEY. We got history - not like you bunk ass got here yesterday crip and blood sets! Even gangs like LOS HARPYS started out here. Consider that most these varrios outside the ELA, had their roots in the towns that make up this wonderful subcity of ELA. Dirty ass dingy south central and WEST LOS , with their NO SPEKE ENGLICH, and combs in the hair. When you take a ride into ELA you just know you entered another world. We got class. Our houses are manicured and are people have money. We got chicanos doing big things out here. I dont even consider the rest of LA , even part of our world. I remeber moving into LOng BEach and thinking what a freaking mess out here. Cambodians wearing skirts and chopping up dogs, Paisas wearing Cowboys boots with slacks, white boys running around with cut off dickies, and blacks wearing pajamas in the middle of the day........LOL. What the hell you people doing?? We showed LA , what gangs were\we showed you guys how to dress--everything LA does comes from ELA. The women out here are gorgeous, hit any city, a little to the left of us and you got bitches wearing potato sacks and corn carts with fruit for sale. We got the most beautiful chicanas anywere. Take a trip out here, PAISA, and get a feel on how to act.

[mayugastank]

Take a look at the ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, pictures. NOW does that look like your average buncha white guys?

Of course they don't! They're a f***en prison gang! How do you expect them to look? Like a bunch of emo kids?
The truth about the AB is that they're really more bikers and rednecks/cowboys than anything. They're not KKK or neo-nazi types for the most part. Nor are they white cholos.

So they arent WHITE CHOLOS??? Nazi LOW RIDERS, hahaha!! that makes sense dont it? a NAZI who drives a LOW RIDER.....what a freaking joke.Outside the AB --they dominated the white population for a while. Now look at the pictures of the AB, tell me that their whole getdown isnt MEXICAN? they way they stand in pictures, dress, crease up and get tatted. Just look at the major figures in the AB, TOMMY SILVERSTEIN, FOUNTAINE, both killed inmates at the behest of the EME. These guys entire swagger came from chicanos, even groups like the Hells Angels get the area codes and dodgers symbols we popularized on them. You seem to talk outta turn alot, and you misinterpret any type of intelligent conversation for whatever your little mind THINKS was said , my suggestion to you is to proofread anything you write. I know you still learning the english language but shouldnt you be practicing at school before you delve into a debate on history and politcal science.? Those conversations are reserved for those of us who are able to comprehend the language and not confuse THEIRS and THERE, you dont seem to have a firm grasp on READING COMPREHENSION, there is a class offered in at some dirty little community college in WEST LA were the rest of you foreigners, (I.E.) Aremenians, Russians, Salvadoreans, CAmbodians, Koreans, Hindus. And all the rest of you who have polluted LA, with your history that you should of left in your country.

[mayugastank]

Take a look at the ARYAN BROTHERHOOD, pictures. NOW does that look like your average buncha white guys?

Of course they don't! They're a f***en prison gang! How do you expect them to look? Like a bunch of emo kids?
The truth about the AB is that they're really more bikers and rednecks/cowboys than anything. They're not KKK or neo-nazi types for the most part. Nor are they white cholos.

So they arent WHITE CHOLOS??? Nazi LOW RIDERS, hahaha!! that makes sense dont it? a NAZI who drives a LOW RIDER.....what a freaking joke.Outside the AB --they dominated the white population for a while. Now look at the pictures of the AB, tell me that their whole getdown isnt MEXICAN? they way they stand in pictures, dress, crease up and get tatted. Just look at the major figures in the AB, TOMMY SILVERSTEIN, FOUNTAINE, both killed inmates at the behest of the EME. These guys entire swagger came from chicanos, even groups like the Hells Angels get the area codes and dodgers symbols we popularized on them. You seem to talk outta turn alot, and you misinterpret any type of intelligent conversation for whatever your little mind THINKS was said , my suggestion to you is to proofread anything you write. I know you still learning the english language but shouldnt you be practicing at school before you delve into a debate on history and politcal science.? Those conversations are reserved for those of us who are able to comprehend the language and not confuse THEIRS and THERE, you dont seem to have a firm grasp on READING COMPREHENSION, there is a class offered in at some dirty little community college in WEST LA were the rest of you foreigners, (I.E.) Aremenians, Russians, Salvadoreans, CAmbodians, Koreans, Hindus. And all the rest of you who have polluted LA, with your history that you should of left in your country.

Oh and by the way -- I LOVE EAST LA. But I was definetly kidding about hating the rest of you ALIENS outside of PARADISE.....muah !

[mayugastank]

This has to be by far one of the dumbest topics ever on this site.

REALLY TY .................Thanks for all your input ---coming by and telling us that this is a dumbtopic at post 450 or so , doesnt convince anyone !! we have put this topic at past 400 posts and that says quite a bit about how dumb people think it is

[Silencioso]

Mayuga,

Sorry you don't like my writing style, homie, but stick to the topic.

Alski wasn't the first tagger in L.A. I vaguely remember that guy , he was a black looking Puerto Rican that acted like a typical Bronx b-boy. There was no pioneering first writer in L.A. like Taki or Cornbread in NY. It didn't happen that way. As I said before, tagging came to L.A. from two sources: hip hop culture and the underground hipster art scene. A lot of people jumped into tagging at around the same time. There were several NY writers in L.A. that helped jump start the scene. I don't recall Alski being that important.
In West Los the first crews were white, Mexican and mixed. The first people to bomb my high school were two white boys - Blitz and Freeze - two guys that looked like new wavers or goths, nothing like the strereotype of a tagger.
You're correct when you say blacks in L.A. were never much into tagging. In NY that wasn't the case, though. There were a lot of important black writers there like Skeme, Case and Blade, not to mention black Puerto Ricans like Dondi. So I don't think it's accurate to say blacks don't have the natural artistic ability to do graffiti art. That's kind of a racist KKK type idea anyway.

You didn't really address the issue of new and short lived gangs in East Los. Everybody knows East LA is home to some of the oldest gangs in the world. But they have plenty of new and historically recent gangs, too. Like everywhere else in L.A. they have their taggers turned cholos like KAMS and there stoners turned cholos like HighTimes MaraVilla.

[xxx]

[quote="mayugastankName one black crew outside KWS that had any clout in LA or the South! YOu fruit cake ---You didnt read the article dumbass, it stated that ALSKI was Puerto Rican --It didnt say PRs started the scene out here, however it did reiterate what I been saying that the very first crews WERE chicano in LA, alski, whom I know personally was from KOS, and KOS was a straight chicano crew one of the biggest outside OFA. To this date I cant think of ANY real black crews out here. Even in citys like Compton , Watts, Inglewood. The hotspots of Black culture in LA , their werent any notable crews. The biggest crews in those citys were in order KCC, WEC, KOS...........

LOL KCC WEC KOS whats that?

You must be young, so thats why your talking out your ass...

My memory is of the 1980's Grafitti scene, anything after that gets blurring to me.....

Alski didnt even idenify himself as a Puerto Rican, he was a Nigga, and after his Grafitti Career, he fell into the Black Gang Scene, not Mexican/Sureno....

.all were MEXICAN crews!The group SUBLIME one of the biggest most listened to alternative groups in AMERICA, were members of KFS, a mexican crew, iN LB. Just listen to their Lyrics.

Your just just on some racial shit, so you aint gonna give up the real, or maybe you just dont know the real, or History,

[xxx]

NBT was all the way MEXICAN, NOTHING BUT TROUBLE, they had crews in WATTS that were bigtime fitted in with the GRAPES Varrio ...a click off my crew OFA, KWS we know their story. The rest I cant even tell you about because they werent around when I was doing it and aint never even heard of them! Consider CBS, city Bomb Squad , KOs, KCC, OFA, KFS, M2k (mob 2 Kill) these are crews that started in the 80s and got bigger up until about 96' when they put the green light on us.

LOL end of conversation, NBTs were Mexicans, i guess Mexicans made up afros and Curls too....

NBT started in 1987 in the Crenshaw District at Adubon Jr High School, they Hung at Leirmert Park on Crenshaw Blvd...it was an all Black Crew with one Mexican namd Rener, who turned BPS Jungles later in the game.....

These dudes was from damn there every Crip and Blood set from the City, and the ones that kept it going, turn 51st Street Trouble Gangsta Crips.........

If all those crew you mentioned started inthe 80's, they werent on the Map, just on a Pen and Pad in someones back pack that didnt see the light of day, minus CBS, those crews have to be 1990's/2000's....

Your Creditbility is shot, your views and oppinions are shape threw racial BS....

For you not to know about Black Grafitti Writers and Crews and you claim to be around the scene in the 1980's, is ridiculous........

[mayugastank]

NBT was all the way MEXICAN, NOTHING BUT TROUBLE, they had crews in WATTS that were bigtime fitted in with the GRAPES Varrio ...a click off my crew OFA, KWS we know their story. The rest I cant even tell you about because they werent around when I was doing it and aint never even heard of them! Consider CBS, city Bomb Squad , KOs, KCC, OFA, KFS, M2k (mob 2 Kill) these are crews that started in the 80s and got bigger up until about 96' when they put the green light on us.

LOL end of conversation, NBTs were Mexicans, i guess Mexicans made up afros and Curls too....

NBT started in 1987 in the Crenshaw District at Adubon Jr High School, they Hung at Leirmert Park on Crenshaw Blvd...it was an all Black Crew with one Mexican namd Rener, who turned BPS Jungles later in the game.....

These dudes was from damn there every Crip and Blood set from the City, and the ones that kept it going, turn 51st Street Trouble Gangsta Crips.........

If all those crew you mentioned started inthe 80's, they werent on the Map, just on a Pen and Pad in someones back pack that didnt see the light of day, minus CBS, those crews have to be 1990's/2000's....

Your Creditbility is shot, your views and oppinions are shape threw racial BS....

For you not to know about Black Grafitti Writers and Crews and you claim to be around the scene in the 1980's, is ridiculous........

rent WATTS sets,WVG and Florencia, also THE RASCALS. ,

Not even I just said NBT as far as I know was mexican , they all got into diffent VARRIOS. I am 27 I grew up in the 90s. The biggest crews in LA were KOS, KCC, D2DisK , OFA, kWS, ATC..........all were almost exclusively made up of chicanos. To say blacks were around past 93' would be a lie. Cuz I rarely saw them and I bounced from one stop to the next. The biggest crews in LA were mainly d2d and OFA. the most notable and they had 1000z of members --what about blacks? NOT EVEN. I dont recall any black crew. At that time philipinos were giving it up in big numbers --SNR was a big ass multi city crew. ALSKI the fool you named was from OFA and one of the founders. So for you to say he was black is BS. Although I did hear he ran with them in the pen ---Blacks didnt have a presence in LAs tagging scene not even in the least bit . Of course crews like KWS was well known. But mainly known cuz they had a 1000 member mexican side to them. If you havent heard of KCC or KOS or KFS , I dont know what to tell you these were massive crews, they were showing up on nightly news programs about tag banging and taggers in general. OFA had I dont know how many fox undrcover reports on them. Dont you remember OILER......? so man dont rewrite history ----for all that is said BLACKS did not follow tagging into the 90s and thats an unbiased fact.

[mayugastank]

Mayuga,

Sorry you don't like my writing style, homie, but stick to the topic.

Alski wasn't the first tagger in L.A. I vaguely remember that guy , he was a black looking Puerto Rican that acted like a typical Bronx b-boy. There was no pioneering first writer in L.A. like Taki or Cornbread in NY. It didn't happen that way. As I said before, tagging came to L.A. from two sources: hip hop culture and the underground hipster art scene. A lot of people jumped into tagging at around the same time. There were several NY writers in L.A. that helped jump start the scene. I don't recall Alski being that important.
In West Los the first crews were white, Mexican and mixed. The first people to bomb my high school were two white boys - Blitz and Freeze - two guys that looked like new wavers or goths, nothing like the strereotype of a tagger.
You're correct when you say blacks in L.A. were never much into tagging. In NY that wasn't the case, though. There were a lot of important black writers there like Skeme, Case and Blade, not to mention black Puerto Ricans like Dondi. So I don't think it's accurate to say blacks don't have the natural artistic ability to do graffiti art. That's kind of a racist KKK type idea anyway.

You didn't really address the issue of new and short lived gangs in East Los. Everybody knows East LA is home to some of the oldest gangs in the world. But they have plenty of new and historically recent gangs, too. Like everywhere else in L.A. they have their taggers turned cholos like KAMS and there stoners turned cholos like HighTimes MaraVilla.

So do MExicans have a natural ability to play basketball? since im being real -and honest and looking at the facts and the numbers of pro basketball players and the number of mexicans in the NBA, would you say I am being racist by claiming mexicans cant dribble??that takes care of that.

Of course their is gonna be gangs like KAMS in our history but really though , who are they cuz I dont ever hear about them anymore. Like gangs disappear in Chitown and NYC , and black gangs come and go ...ELA is differnt we have a tradition. I can go on for as long as I can remeber with lists of gangs that are older then any black gang in America and that are still standing ---today at this moment where they were in the early 1900s.........the list is LONG. Gangs that go past 1940s in ELA even Longer, actually almost all the gangs considered active in ELA are older then the 40s. But here is a list I know.........Clover, AVenues, Dogtown, Eastlake, EL jardin, Canta Ranas, WF, 38th, LOS harpys ELA, Gaherty Lomas, Rockwood, Serreno, MARVILLAS, Marrianas, HOYO. Clantons ES. VArrio Nuevo Estrada, Black Angels(small but still around) Toonerville, Opal st, SOTO st, in other citys....................Hawaiian Gardens, LONGOS, WILMAS, EL MONTE Hicks, FLORES, Puente Dial BLVD, BASSETT 13, LA FLORENCIA, .............just off the top of my head! These gangs are older than any gang active in the ENTIRE USA........not just ELA ,man.....and we arguing about MEXICANS originating gang culture in LA? Besides Italians who have really old mafias their isnt a street culture older then chicanos, in the USA. Possibly the world. What are you saying ? if you look at our history and the rest of the cultures in this country --its actually a testament to what ELA is and how we are. We have multiple generations of family from the same hoods. Although it may seem dysfunctional originally gangs liek the 38st didnt start that way. We brought these gangs into the 21st century and we have a long ass history with these hoods. NO WHERE else is that true.

[xxx]

Thats right, break it down Mancho man Salvage!


I am 27 I grew up in the 90s.

2009
- 27
------
1982

1993
-1982
-------
11yrs old, man stop talking to me...........

That explains everything, you were a snotting nose running around in shitty pampers, what could you possible know about Hip Hop in the 1980's



The biggest crews in LA were KOS, KCC, D2DisK , OFA, kWS, ATC..........all were almost exclusively made up of chicanos.

My knowlegde of Graffitti is strictly back inthe days, when L.A niggas was fasinated by New York Hip Hop, when niggas was Breaking, Poppin, Dj'n, and Writing..

Back then, most of these WLA/ELA Whites & Mexicans where sacred to death to venture South of the Santa Monica Freeway, when South Central L.A was Majority Black, so alot of dudes whos feeding you Racist BS had no Clue About what was going on on the Darkside... No Chaka, no Wisk Throw Ups with numbers, none of that, the closet they got was the Down Town Area....

So all these crews you mentioning i know nothing about, i stop paying attention to the Walls in the Late 1980's, as far as Writing/Tagging goes, got to crowded...

KOS, never heard of it, doubt Alski was involve with some rookie shit from the 2000's, he was out of the Grafitti scence and Gang scence by then.....

KWS were niggas, maybe its Chicano now, but its orgins are niggas.

ATC, was a mixed Black/Chicano Crew, Half turned Harlem Crips 30's, the Mexicans threw the 13 on it, ATC13.




To say blacks were around past 93' would be a lie.

Thats what i told your rookie ass, Blacks stop all that shit in the late 80's...

For anybody to say that Blacks werent there from the Jump, is on some hater shit, when New York Blacks brought that shit here, where do you think they lived, socialized with, etc.....

I can still remember Blacks going to Westwood, Hollwood Blvd, and Venice Beach with their Card Board Boxes to Break Dance, homie there was a scene b4 you came around, b4 L.A was flooded by Paisas....When ELA was in the Dark Ages, your Vets were high off H...




the most notable and they had 1000z of members --what about blacks? NOT EVEN. I dont recall any black crew. At that time philipinos were giving it up in big numbers --SNR was a big ass multi city crew. ALSKI the fool you named was from OFA and one of the founders. So for you to say he was black is BS. Although I did hear he ran with them in the pen ---Blacks didnt have a presence in LAs tagging scene not even in the least bit . Of course crews like KWS was well known. But mainly known because they had a 1000 member mexican side to them. If you havent heard of KCC or KOS or KFS , I dont know what to tell you these were massive crews, they were showing up on nightly news programs about tag banging and taggers in general. OFA had I dont know how many fox undrcover reports on them. Dont you remember OILER......? so man dont rewrite history ----for all that is said BLACKS did not follow tagging into the 90s and thats an unbiased fact.

Yeah break it down some more Vato Loco....

First no Blacks, now no Blacks into the 1990's.....

i cant debate with you on nothing in the 1990's with this tagging shit...

i just jumped into this conversation when you started running your mouth like a Loud Mayate about Blakcs not having a hand in the FOUNDATION of L.A Hip Hop Grafitti..

Your too young to even know about the OG Yards that were all over the City in the 1980's

Motor Yard (Palms Area), WC Train Tracks(WLA Pico Area), RTA Yard on Jefferson, Pan Pacicific, Belmont,the Crenshaw Wall and that Big Ass Unicorn some Vato drew on the side of the Freeway in East L.A, off the 60 freeway...

Hip Hop is a Black Culture Period
Breaking, Rappin, Poppin, the Grafitti, the whole enchilada!


Even the Oldies that your Veteranos knod Off too is all Black..

Whats those ELA Crews turned Gang that were into the Black scene, MCF & TMC, name some more for me, thats not my area...

Even the Stoners that dominated the ELA scene for a Decade took that shit from White boy Stoners, Long Hair listen to Heavy Metal..

Now most of these x Stoners are the Heavy Hitters, stomp down Surenos in ELA...


So knock off all your racial Pride BS...

Everybody has took from everybody period...

Especially in L.A, one the melting pot on the West Coast b4 all the BS kick in...

[tysuave]

owned lol

[jdm894g]

this myuga dude is off his rocker....

i went to washington prep from 87-91 and it was a predominately black school(90%) as most schools were during that time in SCLA.

i went to high school with the founders of KWS-TEXTER, REESE, SIN, HYPE, WEB....

NBT..oh my god, are you kidding me...OGs-REAR, PUNISH, RENER, USER, JAPER, REZENT all Black minus RENER. They all were from TAC in 87 when I got in. TAC was half BLACK at that time.

CMA..criminal minded artist...started by CASTRO 86-87...We rocked shit at Bret Harte.

CCA-founded by blacks..LER, KEEN, ZEEN...had the cheech wizard on manchester and vermont back in 87. Much props to CASIO as well.

FS(FUCK SOCIETY)-south bay...started by THEORY ONE(NTSK) in 90....another black crew..and had other races from the south bay.

OLD SCHOOL BLACK CREWS: SCA, Together We Chill, SHOW NO MERCY, NEXT TO SERVE in the early days(FLEX, SPIROE, SENEK, etc)

a crew that never actually stopped piecing from the late 80s was RTN...CRE8. still holding it down to this day.

Dont get it twisted that BLACKS didnt have any thing going.

SHOUT TO MY NIGGA SERCHONE AOB RTDK UTI...the upest dude with slap tags...a black dude.

It may not have been a lot of us in the 90s, but there were enough to hold it down. A lot moved on to other things. moved out of LA or cali, banging, college, etc.

RAZEONE TAC-FSk last nigga in TAC...RIP FLYONE RIP RAREONE GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!!!!!

[mayugastank]

this myuga dude is off his rocker....

i went to washington prep from 87-91 and it was a predominately black school(90%) as most schools were during that time in SCLA.

i went to high school with the founders of KWS-TEXTER, REESE, SIN, HYPE, WEB....

NBT..oh my god, are you kidding me...OGs-REAR, PUNISH, RENER, USER, JAPER, REZENT all Black minus RENER. They all were from TAC in 87 when I got in. TAC was half BLACK at that time.

CMA..criminal minded artist...started by CASTRO 86-87...We rocked shit at Bret Harte.

CCA-founded by blacks..LER, KEEN, ZEEN...had the cheech wizard on manchester and vermont back in 87. Much props to CASIO as well.

FS(fu-- SOCIETY)-south bay...started by THEORY ONE(NTSK) in 90....another black crew..and had other races from the south bay.

OLD SCHOOL BLACK CREWS: SCA, Together We Chill, SHOW NO MERCY, NEXT TO SERVE in the early days(FLEX, SPIROE, SENEK, etc)

a crew that never actually stopped piecing from the late 80s was RTN...CRE8. still holding it down to this day.

Dont get it twisted that BLACKS didnt have any thing going.

SHOUT TO MY NIGGA SERCHONE AOB RTDK UTI...the upest dude with slap tags...a black dude.

It may not have been a lot of us in the 90s, but there were enough to hold it down. A lot moved on to other things. moved out of LA or cali, banging, college, etc.

RAZEONE TAC-FSk last nigga in TAC...RIP FLYONE RIP RAREONE GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!!!!!

I am speaking on the 90s , MANG! and to say anything before hand is all hearsay!! OFA my crew did come up in the mid 80s as did KOS a deep ass click. The KWs are some notorious MEXICANS! Now you gonna tell me their is black dudes that were KWS all day ?? cuz I can tell you about KWS I met who had the shit tattoed across the DAM FOREHEAD.....WHISPER, and BUBBLES from CUDAHY, KWS, had it going across their EYES and upside their cheeks. Its always about how blacks start something and we pick it up after the fact...........but that dont seem to be the case when it comes to SURENOS and NORTENOS coming some 40 years before CRips and Bloods, nah MY NINJA!! in that case , the 2 most notorious gangs in the country just happened to pick up the same flags ( ROLLS EYES) and the same dress and same tattoo styling , since we can pinpoint mexicans coming first , now its all got dam debatable!.........but nah when theirs any kind of proof of something being possible started by blacks now everybody copied?! get the phug outta here. Cuz aint a black gang in theie country with as much props as the crips and bloods and as much notoreity, EVEN though blacks number 3+ million in NYC and are 1/3 of the population of states like LOUSIANA and MISSIPPI. But oh what a mystery..........ONLY IN LA does gang life hold so much sway..and now a historic black city like NY, doesnt have a crip or blood copy or something similiar?? the PHONIES gotta copy LOS ANGELOS style and LOS ANGELOS gangs? NYC ---crips and Bloods. And only in LA does our cultures intertwine so much.........why cant yall just admit that you love our style? that when we flip the caps up and get the cursive across the chest and blast our hoods upside our heads or get the spraycans tatted on the stomache, or crease them dickies up or slam those bright white Ts, or get the area codes upside our arms and get the bitches going across the ribcage or keep the style clean and baggy at the same time ( something yall cant do , if your black and you wear big clothes it USUALLY looks sloppy)or smash the impalas or el caminos, and come out with some clean new style artwork ....................you guys JOCK!!..........and sad thing is ESE, that the shit doesnt go in reverse. Aint no one tried to take the jazz ,oldies or hip hop from you**** but you wanna keep taking everything you like from us and then turn around and say you invented it......we got a 100 year history in this bitch.We aint no new booty Cambodian immigrants , who dress mexican ,get tatted mexican , talk black, and claim a blood or crip set.........WE HAVE OUR OWN THING. And for reals when I look back at what we did first and what you guys do afterward its really debatable as to who owns the soul of underground when you guys cant hardly come up with anything on your own. You got YOUNG GOTTI, DON CORLIONI, LIL LUCHESSE, slang words like FUGAZI- and on and on and on.........coming and biting off the italians ---and thing is I wouldnt give 2 PHUGS about it ---cuz IMITATION is teh HIGHEST FORM OF FLATTERY, but now I gotta sit here and get into how the PHUG many years we been doing it BEFORE YOU_..........because all of a sudden I am debating the history of SHIZNIT that I thought we ALL knew.

[perongregory]

Lol mayuga you're a fool man, just keep that black hip hop culture goin, that's all I ask.

[mayugastank]

OH wow! the first black gangs go back to the 50s in chicago!! oh wow! lets see the NEWEST GANG in ELA is older then the oldest black gang in AMERICA.

The newest major gang in East Los is probably that lame KAMS gang, who started up in the 90's I guess. East LA has many newer and short lived gangs like Stoners 13, Indiana Dukes, Tiny Boys and The Lott. It's not all ancient gang like El Hoyo MV and White Fence over there.

JUST IMIAGINE THIS LOKO>>>>>outtta everything I am saying I can see why some of it would be misconstrued as racist.......but in the least bit that is NOT the case. I have alot of admiration for what blacks have done in this country and in the simplest of terms they are in many ways the voice of the people, be it ALL people of any race in the USA. The lyrics they have been able to hit NOT a person anywere on the earth doesnt know. I read something that said in order the 3 most famous things on earth were the SUPERMAN SYMBOL , THE MCDONALDS SYMBOL, AND THE NAME MICHAEL JACKSON. Having a member of your race with such popularity that all through out the world he is known is a feat in and of itself. Consider that the mans history was one of ownership being the descendants of slaves. Less then 50 years ago the man couldnt marry --a person of another race. At the time of his birth he was given a role to play for the rest of his life, servant ,cook ,busboy, farmhand, anything but what he turned out to be. That role was reserved for ALL blacks , and as you think of our current president --a long way has been traveled in a realitvely short timespan, blacks have been free for 230+ years and were enslaved for the same amount of time. Bondage a differnt word then slavery ---existed in LAW, up until the last racial leglislation was erased in I believe 1963. Hundreds of people shot, hung and regulated to be born and die in illiteracy and poverty. BUT BESIDES ALL THAT , the discussion is on the origins of street culture and ID say that MOST of what is modern street culture is CHICANO and spefically ELA bred. We are a unique anamoly in the USA. A race stuck in a racial conflict between white/black, we have always been either forced to pick a side or treated as if we werent even here. Consider the confusion amongst Americas other minority groups to name........Phillipinos, Cambodians, Cubans, Africans from Africa, Puerto RIcans, Cambodians, Viets, Arabs. Now the adults of these groups have a good understanding of their historys and cultures, but in almost all cases the children\ of these groups are either trying to fit in with blacks by adopting their style of dress or labeling themselves ASIANBOY CRIPS(lol) or like PHILLIPINOS and ARMENIANS placing a 13 after their names ot get MEXICAN STREET CRED. And like many asians completely abandoning their culture and marrying the most descpicable white men around, hoping that NO ONE will notice how slanted their childrens eyes are. WE CHICANOS dont have these confusions and a specific cultural pride is very evident in the citys of TERRACE -WHITTIER -BELL GARDENS-CUDAHY- MONTE BELLO- and other historic chicano citys. We are ourselves-unique and imitated. People may place their own little cultural spins on what we do --but no matter how hard you toss it --its still so chicano flavored that although the dickies sag or THUG LIFE across the stomache , instead of MI VIDA LOCA, or the roses and butterflies show up in color , the hometown knows that what we do is world wide trend setting and no matter hwo much blacks try to say they invented it they know god dam well they got it from the EAST SIDE.

[MENACE18]

everybody has their own shit,hispanics started from crews and became barrios,blacks had clubs who turned into crews,taggers theyre were probably ppl from different races doin that shit before it became big,black hoods arent as old as hispanic hoods

me i got some issues with blacks but not with all,i got respect for homies from black hoods,from my hood,but some of u black guys be talken bout black hoods from the 30s 40s,theyre not around so theyre not older then the hispanic barrios like white fence,38st,maravillas,clanton 14th,all those hood are still up and active,the hoods u guys are talken bout died out years ago,even if they started before some hispanic hoods that dont make them older unless they still goin,hispanics and blacks got their own shit

[youngspade]

everybody has their own shit,hispanics started from crews and became barrios,blacks had clubs who turned into crews,taggers theyre were probably ppl from different races doin that shit before it became big,black hoods arent as old as hispanic hoods

me i got some issues with blacks but not with all,i got respect for homies from black hoods,from my hood,but some of u black guys be talken bout black hoods from the 30s 40s,theyre not around so theyre not older then the hispanic barrios like white fence,38st,maravillas,clanton 14th,all those hood are still up and active,the hoods u guys are talken bout died out years ago,even if they started before some hispanic hoods that dont make them older unless they still goin,hispanics and blacks got their own shit

Im tired of fucking reading this TOPIC now, THE FUCKING BLACK P. STONES OF CHICAGO ARE STILL AROUND, THEY CREATED THE PEOPLE NATION WHICH HAS MORE GANGS THAN SURENOS in LA up in CHICAGO STFU ALL OF U

[MENACE18]

homie its a LA gnag culture,no chi town,and even if stones are aroud,alot of hispanic varrios are older than them