Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

[perongregory]

How can you say CHicano art isn't influenced by anything and influences everything else when the pachucos yall tatt wear zoot suits blacks made popular and originally wore? when people like Chaz bojorquez said the idea he got for the bloved Talavera the A's sport was partly from Superfly and all the old black pimp style dress (influenced the fur coat). I hate when mufuckas lie, Mexicans took alot of shit and they still do lookin all hiphop with cholo influence yet you sit here and lie?

[ViciousRidah]

Vicious wrote"

But don't you think that some CHicano art has been influenced by some of the the other urban styles, hip hop, stoner, punk rock, and especially Catholic art.

Mayugastank replies"

NO. Chicano style tattoos influenced hip hop and NOT the other way around. I dont expect you to understand to well being from the midwest were chicano barrios are under 20 years young. But out here much of what is done and tattooed on EVERY race is a knock off of chicano gang styles. Yes religious icons and such hold significance for the cholo -but that style is was phased out about 30 years ago-for instance tattoos that were originally chicano that are now sported by everyone.
Caligraphy-black and grey-ghost fading(smoke incoporated into designs ) many of the scenes -baseball logos-area codes-shout out to your sides-EAST SIDE-WEST SIDE-/tattoos with gang shit on the back of teh hands-neck/head. As an example check out NATE KANE-or EMINEM-or 50 cent and youll see completely what chicano designs are. Its a little bit arrogant of whites to tattoo those designs on every race-without permission. Blacks would be in an uproar if it was done to them. Yet its an easy thing to do because ---people assume (even your posts do ) that chicano art is limited to VIRGEN MARY-DAY OF THE DEAD-AZTEC CALENDARS-.......but their is a whole subset that is entirely different from hiphop/punk /catholic art and aztec designs. Those styles I mention are blasted on CASHIS. The bandana wearing skull/the block writing/the smoke/the guns and bullets. I mean it would be like me ......braiding my hair-sagging my pants-singing rap-while eating a plate of gumbo at a soul food restaurant while at the same time denying that anything of what I am doing isnt entirely black american!!! YET this is so MUCH MORE personal then a fools hairstyle-or his choice in music---those things you either grow out of or change up but how does a guy like CASHIS ....EVER erase a full body tattoo-style completely chicano themed? I mean does he even know were it came from? Does anyone outside the states of CA-AZ-NV-TX-NM? 5 states! shoot even chicanos or mexicans outside these states dont know about the entire art style we created...WHY: because we have been shut out by MIAMI INK-KAT VON D( whose entire tattoo getdown was robbed from EAST LOS) -shows like OC choppers(dude sports a nuestra familia tattoo) TAPOUT-(how many of those nutz have chicano tatts?)--WWE -check out the undertakers tattoos!---and now BET....every rapper has got one tattoo with a throwback to East Los.

I'm from H-Town Texas, I grew up in SOuth Park right off of Crestmont and then moved near King Blvd when I was older, I've taken a lot of vactaions to LA . I damn near lived in Pomona cause I was out there for like a year,had family off of 35th and Cimarron in LA near trinity baptist church, and spent some time in Torrance cause I had chick over. I've seen how the cholos get down in LA ,and seen how they dress whether their out clubbing in Hollywood and Downtown. Their dress is sometimes a mix of stoner stuff as well as the original Chicanos cholo zootsuit style, and some even dress like the new wave Hip hop stuff, for the ones who live in SC. I live in Kansas City and enjoy the heck out of it.

Mister Cartoon a tattoo artist was a former tagger and he has tagged on a lot of hip hop and rock n roll artist. He is a known to have been a street tagger in his youth, you cannot deny he got his style from Hip Hop graffiti.

http://hispanic.cc/mister_cartoon_meets ... stream.htm

Block letter designs can't really have a beginning anywhere, but block letter designs began to really to diversify and expound when hip hop came around,ie are bubble lettering style. Actually that type of style might of have influenced hip hop artist from the old blaxpoittaion sh*t.Then saying tattoo works of pictures,with skulls, guns and bullets, and smoke is unique to Chicano style artistry is misinformation because you can see those depictions in any gangster art or any gangsters tattoos then and now.

Baseball logos! That's not something LA blacks or LA chicanos made fashionable or were the first at doing, sports jerseys or baseball logos was used to represent many neighborhoods all over including chi-town and elsewhere.

I never said Chicano art was limited to Virgin Marys and other Catholic saint depictions, I said a lot of chicano tattoo artist have always put these depictions there because it is something they were tagging on the wall in their barrios and something they learned from mural artist before them. Hell they are more reasons than that.

Why do a lot of people get Chinese symbol designs as tattoos, how much people you know have that, would you say they hold a monopoly on modern day tattoo arts.Do Polynesian style designs people usually get , means that modern tattoo art is mainly influenced by pacific islanders not necessarily.

[perongregory]

Mr. Cartoon was in a black tagging crew. Vicious a lot of stuff you are trying to tell Mayuga we already said thousands of times in this thread but he is hell bent on Chicano work being the most original and influential art work in the world.

[ViciousRidah]

@ perongregory

I hear ya, perongregory , I just didn't get a chance to read everything that was in this thread, so I missed a lot of peoples explanations . But Mr Cartoon along with a lot of other tattoo artist have been greatly influenced by the urban tagging style along previously popular wall mural depictions of the 70s. Its even hard to predetermine when exactly the murals in the hood started to arise whether it be 60s,70s and who did it first mexican or black, but Chicanos and early hip hop taggers were greatly influenced by this. I know in the 70s paintings of Black Panthers and Black Power murals were on the walls throughout the hoods.

[mayugastank]

IF YOU CARE TO DENY that Wiz Khalifa and Cashis entire tattoo portfolio isnt chicano?then thats on you! I give absolutely ZERO credit to anyone other then us when it comes to these patterns because Cashis and Wiz --angel designs-lettering-placemnet-writing-themes in general WERE NOT done by any race anywhere -at anytime -in HISTORY before the chicanos of LOS did it ! any for perongregory to be from Los Angelos and growing up around Los Angelos chicanos/gangsters/taggers and SAY that ANY OF THOSE STYLES those 2 dudes has ----has ANY influence in black culture is straight BS. The fact of the matter is that chicano tattoo art is SO POPULAR that everyone -has begun to label the style STREET STYLE for every race and thats an outright LIE!! Because under 20 years ago those patterns werent ever in dispute has to who would get them and who would do them! but now tattoo shows and magazines and even WWE-MMA have begun confusing teh situation to where everyone is tryoing to claim a hand in the patterns EAST LOS came up with. Its arrogance at its roots and its thieving without a thought otherwise. People -(black/asian/white) especially those who grow up around the Southwest cholo shouldnt even have a room to dispute---because they were their to see us put it on the map --they were their when we begun making it popular for every race to get inked in the first place* I get why guys who get inked in chitown would not aacknowledge the roots of their patterns. Since a chicano is still rare out there. But out here??!! Mang!

[youngspade]

Mr. Cartoon was in a black tagging crew. Vicious a lot of stuff you are trying to tell Mayuga we already said thousands of times in this thread but he is hell bent on Chicano work being the most original and influential art work in the world.

Im disappointed your still here my nigga,

Shit been MIA, Back In The City, Thats HOw You Know Im On The Streets, You guys havent seen me since I left vegas 2 1/2 months ago!

[mayugastank]

How can you say CHicano art isn't influenced by anything and influences everything else when the pachucos yall tatt wear zoot suits blacks made popular and originally wore? when people like Chaz bojorquez said the idea he got for the bloved Talavera the A's sport was partly from Superfly and all the old black pimp style dress (influenced the fur coat). I hate when mufuckas lie, Mexicans took alot of shit and they still do lookin all hiphop with cholo influence yet you sit here and lie?

Since when do chicanos tattoo ZOOTSUITERS? is that a popular theme? HELL NO! occassionally YES but a theme?get out. What is popular amongst EVERY group to get tatted is very much defined what VATOS do not the other way around!The clowns -the placements-the writing-the style ITS US ALL DAY. No other people besides the Japenese have a complete stilo that way. YET here we got some thieving -jealous-fools trying to lay a claim to FAME. No one influenced chicano writing-we influenced YOU! WE ALL had the means YET only us EVER got tattooed in the fashion that now everyone does! You wanna talk about some tagger style tattooing done on the WEST COAST---were? NO ONE is getting anything related EAST COAST out here. In fact the East doesnt even have a tattoo style really to even match one inch the style of East LOS-GET THIS STRAIGHT.......EAST COAST versus WEST COAST is everything chicanos do out here/the dress-art-life versus everything blacks do coast to coast. Your music is popular but its our art that sets trends for every group -from the whites on tapout to the WWE-to the OC choppers. And even the blacks in Louisian like wayne and others. We hip hop with cholo influence/oh yea teh last few years outta a history of 120+ years /chicano Gz wearing some Jordans....will they be in 5 years? were they 10 years before that? Its a long history to be picking out a shoe that cholos wear now.120 years loco....remeber that/styles change/cholos used to wear ducktails/they wore size 50 inch pants/they wore tight dickies in the 1980s/they wore zootsuits in the 1950s/they wore old farmer clothes when they started/they wore bald heads-long hair-fades-ducktails-ponytails-shags.......what do you expect from some gangs that are in every sense of the word American Histoyr?

[ViciousRidah]

@mayugastank

Without a doubt the Chicano tattoo art style, ''black and grey'' is preferred amongst hip hop artist,actors, and singers in the entertainment world today as many of them have these designs tatted on them as we speak.But you cannot deny that a lot of Chicano artist were not inspired by urban graffiti styles.How do you think mr cartoon and others are making their money there not just tattoo artist they get paid to do body shop designs. A lot of modern day chicano artist started out as taggers, and this around the time graffiti became popular in the modern era.

Here's one I ran across

http://www.lowriderarte.com/featuredart ... index.html


Another tattoo design that is becoming popular among the masses is an art style called, japanimation, which is of course asian .And I 'm not sure what exactly you define as Chicano, because in Chi-Town is plenty of mexicans, and mexicans out there had car clubs from way back to the 1960s. Chi Town has one of the largest population of Mexicans ,and they've been there for a long time, and guess what a lot the mexican gangs out there mimicked the strike ups of many black gangs.So who knows what has been transmuted from the blacks to mexicans out there.

But without a doubt a vast majority of modern day tattoos is from chicano tattoo artist designs but a lot of those chicanos got it from a lot of hip hop graffiti and urban styles.

[mayugastank]

A lot of modern day chicano artist started out as taggers, and this around the time graffiti became popular in the modern era.

BULL. Tattoo artists in teh chicano gang community were around a long time before graffiti was even a word. OGs were tatting youngsters back in the 60s. They been doing many of the same styles for years-and passing down that clown/caligraphy/old e/placement/forms of shading/women and sombreros/and pancho villa/skulls/teardrops....for as long as anyone can delve back into. Tattooing and the chicano gang culture are one in the same and NO OTHER people on this continent ( I said this continent-not asia!) can say or do or contributed shit to it. The italians/pRs/cubas/African Americans/ or any otehr group I left out has a style uniquely theirs or uniquely american! NOT A ONE. We popularized it so much -that people assume that evil clown in the tattoo book or that rose with a banner or that skull with a bandana to be merely a 'pattern with no history". BS-those designs under 20 years ago werent ever done by anyone anywhere on earth outside of the southwest chicano. And Ive seen Texas vatos ink and they have some throwbacks to ELA but even they dont do everything we do.

[mayugastank]

Think of the movement and its beginings-prison cells/bick ink and a battery from a radio---1 year in the hole-for getting inked and it brings it much more into focus ---its an art that had its roots in the oppression of this people. Its at the heart of the chicano movement---so when dudes say hey no big deal TYGA get that cholo pattern or handle that ink CASHIS/ well now ? whats up ! This movement is personal--it was created directly by oppression and under the worst conditions/RUSSIANS THIEVES code from my understanding have a distinct flavor to it also but it hasnt gained the momentum of the chicano art because it is extremely ethnocentric/wereas teh cholo has taken everything in America and made a unique story ---written on bodies from Phohm Pehn-to Manitoba,Canada-to Belfast, Ireland. Their is NO OTHER street style of tattooing that isnt the cholos! It isnt my business to remind everyone the roots of the THUG LIFE tattoo or the THUG ANGEL or the BANDANA WEARING SKULL ---they should know---just like everyone who trys to get into the RAP game knows whom started that* The best artists youll ever meet are on the streets of LA---doing not graffiti inspired artwork but oldschool shots to a 120 year history of being outside the mainstream.Their are many many facets of teh art its constantly changing---if you look back at the DAY OF THE DEAD cholo art it wasnt even around 5 years ago--yet its become a mainpiece of American tattooing---the clowns and chicano street themes are worn by EVERY RACE ---its transpired from a few streets--and we could get into who holds more influence whether the Japenese or us ....but it would definetly be between us 2.

[ViciousRidah]

BULL. Tattoo artists in teh chicano gang community were around a long time before graffiti was even a word.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=graffiti

1851, for ancient wall inscriptions found in the ruins of Pompeii, from It. graffiti, pl. of graffito "a scribbling," a dim. formation from graffio "a scratch or scribble," from graffiare "to scribble." Sense extended 1877 to recently made crude drawings and scribbling.

OGs were tatting youngsters back in the 60s.

Maybe they did but I doubt those chicano tattoo artist kept they same style of tattoing from the 60s up until the present, even the grey and black tatoo style that is popular in the 2000s were not as popular in the 1990s.

They been doing many of the same styles for years-and passing down that clown/caligraphy/old e/placement/forms of shading/women and sombreros/and pancho villa/skulls/teardrops....for as long as anyone can delve back into.

Are you saying that the clown was invented by mexicans ???? ''The Laugh Now Cry Later'' , is an old adage that was known amongst everybody, nothing special to mexicans, black or white would have the same idea to tattoo themselves with it.

Fact of the matter is that modern Chicano art from the 80s up until to now is not the same, its obvious chicanos adopted some of the art from blacks.Many chicano tattoo artist in prison started to imply their tagger hip hop style during the 80s period. Just look at the old chicano ghetto murals are you saying they are the same as the gangsta graffiti as the ones of today. And yes I compare the chicano graffiti art with tattoo art because art is art within the same culture.


I remember looking at old school or og mexican bangers , and their tattoos are very different for one their green, and all the depictions were not small and as detailed as the modern ones, and yes they were done in prison. So you can't deny the old school chicano tattoing is the same as the modern tattoo art.


You are going to have to show pictures of 1970s vatos tattoo designs to really prove they were the same then as they were now.


Its obvious that even the gangstas began the to envy all the stuff that came along with the gangbangin lifestyle new hence forth new tattoo designs would be incorporated into it. In other words when New style of cars,new discovered aztec designs(which only began to surface when mexican gangs began to identify with La Raza), the Cannibus (don't tell me Cheech chong made it popular Dr Dre and Cypress Hill did sorry) or even block style letter designs influenced by hip hop would make the chicano tattoo art different from what it was before.

Tattooing and the chicano gang culture are one in the same

So your saying that all chicano art is totally derived from prison art and if it wasn't for chicano gangsters tattoo art there wouldn't be any chicano art?

NO OTHER people on this continent( I said this continent-not asia!) can say or do or contributed shit to it. The italians/pRs/cubas/African Americans/ or any otehr group I left out has a style uniquely theirs or uniquely american!

So your saying that modern chicano tattooing art is totally American but did not absorb any other art styles to be what it is now.Your saying that american culture as diluted,cliche, and impure as it is, has not absorbed any other cultural influence along the way.

We popularized it so much -that people assume that evil clown in the tattoo book or that rose with a banner or that skull with a bandana to be merely a 'pattern with no history".

A tattoo of skull with a bandana is not hard for me picture a hells angel or the 1960 to have or even a russian vore(gangster) to have.

[ViciousRidah]

Think of the movement and its beginings-prison cells/bick ink and a battery from a radio---1 year in the hole-for getting inked and it brings it much more into focus ---its an art that had its roots in the oppression of this people.

Goddamn,inked gets you a whole year in the hole.

This movement is personal--it was created directly by oppression and under the worst conditions/RUSSIANS THIEVES code from my understanding have a distinct flavor to it also but it hasnt gained the momentum of the chicano art because it is extremely ethnocentric/wereas teh cholo has taken everything in America and made a unique story ---written on bodies from Phohm Pehn-to Manitoba,Canada-to Belfast, Ireland.

Bingo the chicano art has taken, we don't even have to get into it being american it was influenced by a lot.

Their is NO OTHER street style of tattooing that isnt the cholos! It isnt my business to remind everyone the roots of the THUG LIFE tattoo or the THUG ANGEL or the BANDANA WEARING SKULL ---they should know---just like everyone who trys to get into the RAP game knows whom started that*

Why does any one who gets into rap need to know who started it???????

The best artists youll ever meet are on the streets of LA---doing not graffiti inspired artwork but oldschool shots to a 120 year history of being outside the mainstream.

Their are many many facets of teh art its constantly changing---if you look back at the DAY OF THE DEAD cholo art it wasnt even around 5 years ago--yet its become a mainpiece of American tattooing

Exactly, it has changed because it was influenced from people outside their race.

[mayugastank]

Which people pray me-have in your estimation influenced chicano tattoo art? Now we are getting all over the place/Tattooing in the USA has improved dramatically -and is a far different experience then it was even 10 years ago-due mainly to the quality of ink-the explosive popularity of the movement( maybe 2000s?) and the ideals made popular by the cholo that ink was fashion* in the 1980s and 90s tattooing was limited to simply pieces and was usually limited to the southwest cholo and white convict who resided in the southwest/Their really isnt another artform outside of sailor jerry and chicano designs that were bourne from this country. If you take a look at the entire portfoloio of the worlds tattooing NO ONE besides the chicano and japenese and vora have a complete portfolio( meaning placement-ink color-designs-symbols) each of the groups have popularized the styles placements and forms. The designs that hiphop brought are what per se? That big ass 50 cent piece ---he has is a writing style cholos have been doing since the 80s. No the cholo didnt invent the clown-but he invented giving him a gat/cigar/a brim/a evil ass look and tattooing it . If you look at the designs of all tattooing in America pre 1980 youll see a crap shoot of mediocre styles and repetive plays on chicano themes for EVERY RACE. The rose the cholos would get -are far ddifferent then the rose people get now in LIVING COLOR. Yes-it has changed and yes usually it was limited in thsi country to convicts and up until recently seeing someone NOT A CRIMINAL get inked was rare. Did blacks have a hand in it? NO in my honest opinion--really the only design I give them credit for is the hand sign tattoo -which crips and bloods would put up on graffiti and the cholo started tattooing; now I remember even 15 years ago -blacks being amazed by the ability of the cholos art skills when it came to ink and many blacks got their first tatts at the hands of a vato ( Monster Kody first tattoo was given to him by a fool from AZUZA) . Picture styles by region/and youll see that in its entirety no region has the influence and styles LA has made popular. Yes your correct that the taggers whom began joining gangs changed alot of the art. What they did was mix new and old. What I am saying is why werent any other groups able to do so? how so did the vato come up with a complete package/

[mayugastank]

Now the differences then and now have to do with quality of ink and the evolution of the top notch tattoo gun-and teh popularity of colored ink/(under 10 years ago) its still a really new mainstream movement guy, so YES of course a people who have developed a whole set of patterns/placements/and writing styles are going to have the biggest influence---and people are putting their spin on it like the day of the dead color work and some new artists are transforming the scene-with use of color but if you take a look at the influence the movement has its transformed clothing/music/fashion and not the other way around-as people who have more means (instead of a cell-and bick pen) begin developing the art in freedom it will continue to change--but the evolution and much of teh heart of it resides amongst my people-from chile to canda and beyond. The japenese have gotten into tattooing mainstream now and they even admit the poularity of the cholo designs.As in an exchange of some of teh best arts we are taking and borrowing from eachother/

[ViciousRidah]

Which people pray me-have in your estimation influenced chicano tattoo art? Now we are getting all over the place/Tattooing in the USA has improved dramatically -and is a far different experience then it was even 10 years ago-due mainly to the quality of ink-the explosive popularity of the movement( maybe 2000s?)

Do you really think the quality of ink is one of the reasons chicano tattoo art has changed and evolved. Do you really think the quality of ink is one the reasons they were drawbacks in the past amd wasn't able to make the same kinds of intricate designs now as they would want to in the past is because of a pen gun.

and the ideals made popular by the cholo that ink was fashion* in the 1980s and 90s tattooing was limited to simply pieces and was usually limited to the southwest cholo and white convict who resided in the southwest/Their really isnt another artform outside of sailor jerry and chicano designs that were bourne from this country.

First of all black ,white, chinese, asian , or japanese customers didn't care what color the tattoo artist was, they just cared if they were good. So if sailor jerry, puppet , or baby black could make it happen then thats what customers dealed with.They could be chicano or not.

And saying that cholos had an idea in tattoo art designs but were limited to designs, is like me saying telsa could of invented the airplane if the wright brothers gave them enought time. If they didn't make it then it didn't happen and theres no time for speculation or a shoulda woulda, coulda.

If you take a look at the entire portfoloio of the worlds tattooing NO ONE besides the chicano and japenese and vora have a complete portfolio( meaning placement-ink color-designs-symbols) each of the groups have popularized the styles placements and forms.

Well exactly the japanese tattoo artist have designs like fish scales,roses, and dragons that are popular amongst some. I'm no art expert neither I'm not a tattoo expert but I know from all the tattoos I've seen on people and all the ones that are popular have japanese,chicano, polynesian,vore,and of course street art graffitti influence tatted on them.It all depends of what the person likes. So ain't no denying it, people get tattoos of all kinds and tattoo customers in parlors may have a request for a tat that has some japanese or urban qualities, customers for damn sure would like to have it both ways a lot of the times, tattoo artist would have to merge their work from other kinds of designs, come through for the customer if they truly artist.Thats no estimation thats logic.


Plus tattoos now a days is hard to pinpoint what is and isn't chicano.

Many black graffiti artist became tattoo artist as well, im sure you could see these designs that you would mistake for chicano gangster designs that was are the same designs of their counter parts done in hip hop graffiti by black artist.So whether the chicano did it on skin or on a wall the chicano taggers took a lot of art from tagging graffiti and other ethnic styles.

The designs that hiphop brought are what per se? That big ass 50 cent piece ---he has is a writing style cholos have been doing since the 80s. No the cholo didnt invent the clown-but he invented giving him a gat/cigar/a brim/a evil ass look and tattooing it . If you look at the designs of all tattooing in America pre 1980 youll see a crap shoot of mediocre styles and repetive plays on chicano themes for EVERY RACE.

What chicano themes pre 1980?And tattoos of 1980 are generally different from the ones they have now, whether it be chicano gangster art,hells angels, or a punk rocker

The rose the cholos would get -are far ddifferent then the rose people get now in LIVING COLOR. Yes-it has changed and yes usually it was limited in thsi country to convicts and up until recently seeing someone NOT A CRIMINAL get inked was rare.

Agreed to a certain degree , what is recently to you 90s ,2000s, or back in the 80s.

Did blacks have a hand in it? NO in my honest opinion--really the only design I give them credit for is the hand sign tattoo -which crips and bloods would put up on graffiti and the cholo started tattooing;

You can't be serious you would only give them credit for is a hand sign tattoo?? LOL

Yes your correct that the taggers whom began joining gangs changed alot of the art. What they did was mix new and old. What I am saying is why werent any other groups able to do so? how so did the vato come up with a complete package/

Well thats what I'm saying the mixed the old chicano tattoo art, with the new graffiti style they seen on the streets. They mixed and merged the styles to form the new tattoo designs.

[ViciousRidah]

Now the differences then and now have to do with quality of ink and the evolution of the top notch tattoo gun-and teh popularity of colored ink/(under 10 years ago) its still a really new mainstream movement guy, so YES of course a people who have developed a whole set of patterns/placements/and writing styles are going to have the biggest influence---and people are putting their spin on it like the day of the dead color work and some new artists are transforming the scene-with use of color but if you take a look at the influence the movement has its transformed clothing/music/fashion and not the other way around-as people who have more means (instead of a cell-and bick pen) begin developing the art in freedom it will continue to change--but the evolution and much of teh heart of it resides amongst my people-from chile to canda and beyond.

Those tattoo designs you have above chicanos in the 1980s and 1990s don't look the same as the modern ones. They generally have pictures of naked women, have pictures of angels of saints, the virgin mary, and the old english style lettering. You can clearly see that in the 70s and 80s that those chicanos don't have any of the chicano tattoo designs that are done today. So it is obvious that the hip hop and other ethnic groups have influenced that taggers turned tattoo artist of the 1980s, that is why we see their designs in the late 90s and early 2000s.


I don't see the similarity of the chicano blast tattoo designs done in the 80s to the tattoo art designs done by chicanos now.

The japenese have gotten into tattooing mainstream now and they even admit the poularity of the cholo designs.As in an exchange of some of teh best arts we are taking and borrowing from eachother/

Well that was what I was saying, Chicano gangsters usually live in urban area where they are other ethnic groups. Its obvious that art is going to be exchanged or mimicked by one ethnic group to another, because if it is a bangin design its going to be requested for by everybody

But yes japanese would exchange tattoo designs with chicanos because people would first want get bomb designs no matter what ethnicity, people would then want to compete to see which is better then people would want to learn how to do those designs, because it makes money at least in their parlors it does.

[mayugastank]

You mentioned that OG chicano tatts were green not black and grey...well they originally started as black and grey but when you use low quality ink it begins to fad-indigo ink used to practice caligraphy in prison was also used to do tattoos-the ink would fade after a few years giving it a GREEN look. Its like I mentioned-how the art has changed due to the quality of teh guns and ink. I once knew a guy who was so sought after in the tattoo world that -he was pursued by all the shops and saw his artwork a few times in LOWRIDER and TATTOO magazine. Thsi guy would take a woman from playboy-stencil it and slap it on you in under 30 minutes -the end result was something that looked brushed on your skin. That style of simply lines -ghost fading and grey ink was never done by any race and in fact defined the chicano for along time before --LA INK ( fake ass) and others begun getting in the style. If you look at white biker types from the Southwest their patterns are distinctly chicano and are almost identical to the cholos. But outside of the southwest WHITES were not doing those designs till it became mainstream under 10 years ago!! its a really new genre and tattooing as fashion has been part of teh cholos attire for along ass time. I remember seeing cholas/chicanas get the tramp stamp and wrist shots and behind teh ear butterfly WAY before I had ever seen it on ANY white or any race period. Their is no other people in all the Americas that have a total complete style with placement and color. And really no where in the world -but people dont realize that besides us and the japs ---the movement probabbly would be stale and without us ---all minorities and most whites wouldnt have a clue what to even get inked. The art is semi different from what cholos used to get --back times change/would a sailor still get a warship across his chest? or a chicano the BROWN BERET tattooed on him? Its a movement that doesnt allow itself to be stuck and it incorporates everything in its mist. Puerto Ricans/Blacks/Asians and Whites didnt devvelop a full style and the question should really be why>? We have always been a really artistic people and our talent has always been at the forefront of tattooing. Yet for the billions of people and the hundreds of lands ...just how so did only 2 people( japs/chicanos/) emerge with a placement/style and color taht is completely unique. In reality we chicanos in this continent made tattooing the popular thing it is. The designs are all over shirts and all over bodies --teh pciture below may have ideas seen in graff---but the paly is chicano and the graff ideas of the southwest are really unique -and far removed from NYC

[ViciousRidah]

You mentioned that OG chicano tatts were green not black and grey...well they originally started as black and grey but when you use low quality ink it begins to fad-indigo ink used to practice caligraphy in prison was also used to do tattoos-the ink would fade after a few years giving it a GREEN look. Its like I mentioned-how the art has changed due to the quality of teh guns and ink. I once knew a guy who was so sought after in the tattoo world that -he was pursued by all the shops and saw his artwork a few times in LOWRIDER and TATTOO magazine. Thsi guy would take a woman from playboy-stencil it and slap it on you in under 30 minutes -the end result was something that looked brushed on your skin. That style of simply lines -ghost fading and grey ink was never done by any race and in fact defined the chicano for along time before --LA INK ( fake ass) and others begun getting in the style. If you look at white biker types from the Southwest their patterns are distinctly chicano and are almost identical to the cholos. But outside of the southwest WHITES were not doing those designs till it became mainstream under 10 years ago!! its a really new genre and tattooing as fashion has been part of teh cholos attire for along ass time. I remember seeing cholas/chicanas get the tramp stamp and wrist shots and behind teh ear butterfly WAY before I had ever seen it on ANY white or any race period. Their is no other people in all the Americas that have a total complete style with placement and color. And really no where in the world -but people dont realize that besides us and the japs ---the movement probabbly would be stale and without us ---all minorities and most whites wouldnt have a clue what to even get inked. The art is semi different from what cholos used to get --back times change/would a sailor still get a warship across his chest? or a chicano the BROWN BERET tattooed on him? Its a movement that doesnt allow itself to be stuck and it incorporates everything in its mist. Puerto Ricans/Blacks/Asians and Whites didnt devvelop a full style and the question should really be why>? We have always been a really artistic people and our talent has always been at the forefront of tattooing. Yet for the billions of people and the hundreds of lands ...just how so did only 2 people( japs/chicanos/) emerge with a placement/style and color taht is completely unique. In reality we chicanos in this continent made tattooing the popular thing it is. The designs are all over shirts and all over bodies --teh pciture below may have ideas seen in graff---but the paly is chicano and the graff ideas of the southwest are really unique -and far removed from NYC

Are you sure the black and gray ink tattoos done in prison would turn green, whats the difference between the ink they have in the prisons then in the 80s and the ones they have now. In prison your items are limited , and very few things have changed.I doubt that the black and gray ink tattoos would turn green years down the line,show proof, I've seen chicanos in Texas get their tats black and gray style with intricate designs , they were never fuzzy ,smudged, or seemed to wear off.If they got it green thats how its stayed if they got it black thats how it stayed years down the line. And you didn't give any pictures of the chicano grey and black tattoos of the 1960s and 1970s, or they blast designs done then to now.

[buLLetxx2]

You captioned this picture Chicano placement, writing and style yet I clearly see a Spitfire Wheels logo on dude's arm, Skater culture art...but I'm sure you'll find some way to explain to us how the Aztecs first created skateboards in 214AD and the first X-games was held on the Yucatan Peninsula and officiated by Chief Tony Hawkatawatchee.

[mayugastank]

NO bullettxxx.....that design isnt chicano and I dont ever debate how your insinuating I do! BS! He has a complete chest and arm piece YET YOU focused on the ONE item that wasnt chicano themed. What about the rest of it? That dude above is not chicano number one( his name is john riley and he got done by BOOG a chicano from Tex) and what I was reiterating is how much of the designs done nowadays were first done by chicanos. Even the style of soft smoothe lines and ghost fading with smoke--were only done by us not too long ago.Cambodians and Vietnamese have a style of tattooing that calls for their upper legs and around their back to get inked --do TRGS and ABZ get that>?absoultely not. What they get is what everyone gets -that play on prison chicano tatts. The movement is extremely personal and you guys arent seeing it for what it is.

1) an artform brought about by oppression and racism
2) an artform with secret meaning and symbols
3) an artform limited till recently to chicanos-
4) an artform that had to be practiced in secret
5) an artform that had its roots with simple and meager means--bick pens/radio batteries and indigo ink.

Yet despite this it has acomplished as much fame as anything the japs do. They have an awesome history and I believe it started under very similar circumstances as ours..EVERYONE in the world doesnt get to wear it simply because they can just point and pick.

[mayugastank]

viciousridah"

Are you sure the black and gray ink tattoos done in prison would turn green, whats the difference between the ink they have in the prisons then in the 80s and the ones they have now

Absoluetely sure. Indigo ink had a quality that made it pop when you got it -it looked extremely fresh and bright black. Over time the ink would fade out and turn either greenish or so light that lines would blur out. The ink was used primarily in prison because it was the only ink available.Skin has a way of finding any means necessary to repair itself --ink being a foreign body is pushed out through new layers in the epidermis. 2-3 layers of skin must be punctured in order for a tattoo to not fade out and get good hold on the skin of the tattooed.Youd figure the ampage needed to pierce skin to be at a constant 7.5 volts, its possible to get constant electricity in that range with a professional power supply ,but someone using a batterie from a radio would have problems consistently piercing the 2-3 layers of skin necessary to provide good ink depth.Also professioal tatoo guns have an apparatus that allows depth to be set at exactly 2-3 layers of dermis( 3 mm?) The prison gun is rotary and doesnt deliver anything simalar in power and consistentcy as a pro gun. NO ONE uses a rotary gun in the free world --the revolutions per minute ( RPMS) are way to0 slow even running at 15v( enough to blow out a machine) Tattoo shops in the freeworld would use different commercial inks like KUMO INK. They knew what would happen to a design with the indigo after a few years. But check it out --if you look back at even 20 years ago at a majority of tattoos done youll see that almost all had a large amount of fading and turning of color. The means chicanos had to practive their art was meager and limited and of teh worst quality yet they turned out some of the best pieces ever seen and made the art what it is. Given the explosion of the art in the freeworld in the last 15 years its no wonder taht chicanos themes and patterns dominate--and now the same guys doing work with nothing are afforded all the luxuries and new knowledge the industry has provided. It wasnt long ago that the non rotary machine was even developed---if you take a look at even ancient jap tattooing youll see a very mediocre type of art-and even they had trouble holding ink ( although they did devolop the first formulas for professional ink ) its a new art and its grown and changed--and sophisticated itself. The reason those designs in the past look greenish and plain is because --inmates would have to be quick due to cell inspections and intricaties werent possible in prison-the machines were rotary and the ink crap-the power supply weak --thus a prison tattoo!!

[ViciousRidah]

You still haven't shown us the chicano tattoos of the 70s and 80s. The couple of pics you gave only had depictions of virgin marys, angels, naked women and old english writing . Typical classic chicano tattoos. Can you show us a retro pic that clearly gives the continuum of classic chicano tattoos in the 60s and 70s to the urban tagger influenced tattoos done by chicanos now.

That way we could clearly define what style of art chicanos started.

[mayugastank]

okay time out --we are sidetracked.

Since we disagree on some things lets agree on what we agree on.

1.Los Angelos is the capital of the tattoo world.
2. Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas
3.Tattoos till recently were only worn by criminals or convicts or gangmembers
4. That those criminals-gangmembers were predominately white southwestern staters or chicano bangers.
5. That black and grey is a style-that that style was used predominately by convict cholos.
6.That only the Yukuza have a full body tattoo portfolio-alongside chicanos( meaning that their is a definet way of placing the tattoos).

Are we in agreement?

[mayugastank]

Los Angeles Is Becoming the Capital of Artists Whose Canvas Is Human Skin


Photograph by Ann Johansson for The New York Times
From left, Gorge Verduzco, Mr. Maturino and Chuco Caballero show their body art in competition at the expo.


By ANGELA FRUCCI

Published: January 11, 2005



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Photograph by Ann Johansson for The New York Times
Tattoos cover Richard Maturino's head at Body Art Expo 2005 in Pomona, Calif.




OMONA, Calif., Jan. 9 - Inside the crowded convention center here, Chuco Caballero, wearing only blue boxer shorts, stood in the center of an admiring crowd. It was the last day of Body Art Expo 2005, a gathering of tattoo aficionados, and the drone of tattoo machines, like the buzz of a plague of locusts, filled the hall.

Mr. Caballero's 53-year-old body appeared covered in portraits: Susan Hayward, Robert De Niro, the Statue of Liberty under an armpit and some menacing gangster types just above his ankle. Chuco, as he is called, is a walking canvas of what is known as black and gray, a Los Angeles style that emerged from the city's Chicano culture, and is a highly popular one here.

In fact, judging by the crush of practitioners and fans at the Fairplex center, in this city about 30 miles east of Los Angeles, which is emerging as the latest capital of body tattooing. "The new millennium is starting to be L.A.," said Baba, of the Vintage Tattoo Art Parlor in Los Angeles, and one of the sponsors of the three-day convention, which ended on Sunday. The city's turn has come round again: in the 1970's Los Angeles was the place for tattooing, in the 80's New York became the capital and in the 90's San Francisco.

"What's going on in L.A. is juxtaposition; that's the easiest way I can describe it," continued Baba (in the tattoo world one-word names are the norm). "You have Americans doing beautiful Japanese-American stuff; you have people mixing hot rod stuff with Chicano stuff; you have people mixing traditional with new school. I mean, as much as a mixture of people as this town is right now, that is how the tattoo world is right now. You have the masters, the king tattooers of L.A., and they are leading the pack and pushing the envelope."

As he spoke, Baba was performing a cosmetic coverup on the stomach of a young woman named Sabrina. As she lay on a table in front of him, tears rolled from beneath her heavily made-up eyelids. Originally, Sabrina had had a tattoo of a cross with her grandfather's name, but she wanted something new. "Be strong," Baba told her.

The monotone black and gray style, like many of the images decorating Chuco's skin, often reflect cultural, religious and prison themes. The style was popularized by well-known tattoo figures like Jack Rudy, Freddy Negrete and Ed Hardy.

"Jack Rudy was growing up in L.A., when all the black and gray was coming out of the prisons," explained Mr. Lucky, who was tending the booth of Good Time Charlie's Tattooland, of Anaheim. "People wanted it," Mr. Lucky added, as a departure from simpler biker-inspired designs, like skulls.

"I grew up in the 60's," said Chuco, who was standing in front of the booth, "when you could own a tattoo only if you were a gang member, a drug addict, or in prison. Now, celebrities and movie stars have made tattooing mainstream." His black and gray designs, mostly portraits rendered in outline, were filled in with shadowing.

Just a few booths away, stood Bill Salmon of the Diamond Club Tattoo Parlor in San Francisco. His guest tattoo artist was Hori Zakura, who creates traditional Japanese tattoos. Instead of needles, Mr. Zakura shaded in the scales of a carp tattoo by rolling a needled stick back and forth into his client's skin. The process seemed more meditative for tattooer and tattooee alike and less painful than the machine-needle method, which inflames the skin.

The wait for a tattoo from an artist who is in demand can be months to a year. "I've been waiting to get a tattoo from Bugs for a long time," said Kyle Straton about a French-born artist who is, by his own admission, an outsider in the industry. Bugs, who works in a West Los Angeles tattoo parlor, Tabu Tattoo, studied fine arts in France. His style is unusual, leaning heavily toward Cubism. As Mr. Straton sat serenely for two hours while Bugs worked, Jesus in a crown of thorns slowly took form on the back of Mr. Straton's neck. Passers-by stopped, some appearing confused by Bugs's art form.

"It's very simple, needles and skin, pain and a lot of blood," Bugs said, wiping away droplets of blood from his subject's back with an antibacterial soap. "I never use anyone else's design. People give me a subject, and I work it out with my design."

Several steps away, Ron Earhart was putting the finishing touches on a tattoo in his biomechanical style. "I'm in the zone; it doesn't hurt," said his customer, whose green Celtic knot emerged from the ripped flesh of his arm. Mr. Earhart's Newskool Tattoo Studio, in San Jose, specializes in the fusion of flesh and machines: gears, switches and machinery. The style owes much to "Alien," the movie, he said, and the insectlike creature created by HR Giger.

Early Saturday evening, judging had begun for the best "Black and Gray, Large" tattoo of the day. Mando, who weighs about 375 pounds, walked past the row of judges, stopping briefly to let each examine his back. Its great expanse was filled with an enormous skull, rendered in Tiki, or island, style. It had taken 12 sessions - from 1½ to 6 hours each - to complete. Mando, who is Chicano, said he got the tattoo to "show appreciation for their art."

He lost to a large black and gray of Elvis.

[ViciousRidah]

okay time out --we are sidetracked.

Since we disagree on some things lets agree on what we agree on.

1.Los Angelos is the capital of the tattoo world.

Yea you could say that somewhat, since a lot of people travel to get their tattoos done there, just as they might do in Tokyo.


2. Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas.

-I thought according to you the Chicano style tattooing was the most popular style of tattooing in not only in America and the World.


3.Tattoos till recently were only worn by criminals or convicts or gangmembers .-

Plus sailors ,Marines, stoners, and punk rockers.



4. That those criminals-gangmembers were predominately white southwestern staters or chicano bangers.

-Negative, I can't feel you on that, black bangers have always been tatted with their hood across their back or on their chest.Bangers from the Midwest and West Coast have always shown their allegiance to their hood by getting their name tatted on them.

5. That black and grey is a style-that that style was used predominately by convict cholos.

Well this is where the lines are blurred. What exactly defines the ''black and gray style''? I could add the chicano tattoo artist have incorporated many designs into their artform like graffiti and japanamation, like I said earlier, those retro chicano pics you posted were only tatts virgin marys, old english style lettering , naked women. and saints.

On top of that, the Japanese Yakuza seemed to have had those same style of black and gray tattoos, in their

If you can show retro pics of chicano tattoos that look similar to the chicano black gray style done now, then yea may be the chicanos tattoo art not being influenced by urban tagger graffiti and japanese tatts deserves some merit.


6.That only the Yukuza have a full body tattoo portfolio-alongside chicanos( meaning that their is a definet way of placing the tattoos).


The vore have had full body tattoos. Bikers have had their bodies full tattoo canvas.Tattooing was even popular in ancient Egypt, so tattooing has always been around.


Are we in agreement?

[ViciousRidah]

1.Los Angelos is the capital of the tattoo world.

Yea you could say that somewhat, since a lot of people travel to get their tattoos done there, just as they might do in Tokyo.


2. Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas.

-I thought according to you the Chicano style tattooing was the most popular style of tattooing in not only in America and the World.


3.Tattoos till recently were only worn by criminals or convicts or gangmembers .-

Plus sailors ,Marines, stoners, and punk rockers.



4. That those criminals-gangmembers were predominately white southwestern staters or chicano bangers.

-Negative, I can't feel you on that, black bangers have always been tatted with their hood across their back or on their chest.Bangers from the Midwest and West Coast have always shown their allegiance to their hood by getting their name tatted on them.

5. That black and grey is a style-that that style was used predominately by convict cholos.

Well this is where the lines are blurred. What exactly defines the ''black and gray style''? I could add the chicano tattoo artist have incorporated many designs into their artform like graffiti and japanamation, like I said earlier, those retro chicano pics you posted were only tatts virgin marys, old english style lettering , naked women. and saints.

On top of that, the Japanese Yakuza seemed to have had those same style of black and gray tattoos, in their

If you can show retro pics of chicano tattoos that look similar to the chicano black gray style done now, then yea may be the chicanos tattoo art not being influenced by urban tagger graffiti and japanese tatts deserves some merit.


6.That only the Yukuza have a full body tattoo portfolio-alongside chicanos( meaning that their is a definet way of placing the tattoos).


The vore have had full body tattoos. Bikers have had their bodies full tattoo canvas.Tattooing was even popular in ancient Egypt, so tattooing has always been around.


Are we in agreement?

[mayugastank]

Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas.

-I thought according to you the Chicano style tattooing was the most popular style of tattooing in not only in America and the World.


REGIONAL as in a regional flavor--like the West coast dickies-pendletons-chucks-white Ts....No other region in the USA has a flavor of art-except NYCs graff scene-largely dominated by Puerto Ricans. I mean we can travel the world guy and and chicano art-jap art-are pretty much the dominant themes. So yes -you cannot open a tattoo magazine book and find ONE page without the two cultures flavor. Chicanos out here developed a style of graff influenced by NYC -but oh so different. The retro religious icons -women-etc...are the look of that day. Would bell bottoms look silly today? Yes till we find a way to modernize it like they did with the look of cholo. The long hair greased look of the 60s was the look sported by every hippy-the bald fade of the 90s likewise. Why wouldnt blacks or any other culture in the USA develop such a profound impact on skin art like the cholo? Yukuza tattoos were primarily done in poor quality much as the chicano tattoo because of a real means of tools--inks---constant electrical current. But the ideas were their and they expanded and adapted with the new themes brought about by japanimation. Yet despite this the figures were originally chinese in origin. Humm.....Here in the US and across the style of inkwork brought about by prisons is what set the tone for all manners of dress and art. I am being honest when I say that blacks never had too much of a hand in tattooing. In fact youd be hard pressed to find a black tattoo artist around here. Its an extremely NEW idea in modern black america-and it would explain why much of the sauce is delievered via chicanos. That supposed graff-look you say influenced the modern styles of tattooing is probably correct as -I remeber the art really being transformed -via new sets like the KWS 18 street click and taggers whom were forced to join gangs-in the 1990s. It was a thought even back then for me as I witnessed a whole new style of cholo graffiti still old school but bombed in a tagger fashion with exclamations and larger to smaller-looks. So yes assuming graffiti influenced cholo art why wouldnt it influence any other people on the land? Blacks -asians--whites? I mean most of what they all get are ideas originated in the head of the southwest chicano. So dont be surprised when a dude liek me says hey guy that fawking star you fools are starting to tattoo was done by nortenos back in the 1980s. Or hey dude those gauged ears were done by themn weirdo ass rocker chicanos-or that fawking caligraphy wasnt done on any race before we made it gangster to get! Of course from my point of view---seeing us do it and tehn seeing others do it years later it would look like some biting ass shit-and soem of teh shit has alot of history with teh cholo like taht caligraphy neck chain and those weird ass clown faces-or teh placements and well seeing many of ideas popping up all over is a little shocking because people arent even privvy to it being ours----unless you grow on these streets. Here we got dudes like ED hardy whom admits his ideas come from gangsters-and he makes millions? or I see teh entire placement style of writing and designs on dudes like bowwow-wayne and tyga---that not a soul on this earth had every fathomed getting inked or doing before? why it gotta be us? I mean seriously?

[mayugastank]

Los Angelos style tattoos are the only regional style of tattooing in the Americas.

-I thought according to you the Chicano style tattooing was the most popular style of tattooing in not only in America and the World.


REGIONAL as in a regional flavor--like the West coast dickies-pendletons-chucks-white Ts....No other region in the USA has a flavor of art-except NYCs graff scene-largely dominated by Puerto Ricans. I mean we can travel the world guy and and chicano art-jap art-are pretty much the dominant themes. So yes -you cannot open a tattoo magazine book and find ONE page without the two cultures flavor. Chicanos out here developed a style of graff influenced by NYC -but oh so different. The retro religious icons -women-etc...are the look of that day. Would bell bottoms look silly today? Yes till we find a way to modernize it like they did with the look of cholo. The long hair greased look of the 60s was the look sported by every hippy-the bald fade of the 90s likewise. Why wouldnt blacks or any other culture in the USA develop such a profound impact on skin art like the cholo? Yukuza tattoos were primarily done in poor quality much as the chicano tattoo because of a real means of tools--inks---constant electrical current. But the ideas were their and they expanded and adapted with the new themes brought about by japanimation. Yet despite this the figures were originally chinese in origin. Humm.....Here in the US and across the style of inkwork brought about by prisons is what set the tone for all manners of dress and art. I am being honest when I say that blacks never had too much of a hand in tattooing. In fact youd be hard pressed to find a black tattoo artist around here. Its an extremely NEW idea in modern black america-and it would explain why much of the sauce is delievered via chicanos. That supposed graff-look you say influenced the modern styles of tattooing is probably correct as -I remeber the art really being transformed -via new sets like the KWS 18 street click and taggers whom were forced to join gangs-in the 1990s. It was a thought even back then for me as I witnessed a whole new style of cholo graffiti still old school but bombed in a tagger fashion with exclamations and larger to smaller-looks. So yes assuming graffiti influenced cholo art why wouldnt it influence any other people on the land? Blacks -asians--whites? I mean most of what they all get are ideas originated in the head of the southwest chicano. So dont be surprised when a dude liek me says hey guy that fawking star you fools are starting to tattoo was done by nortenos back in the 1980s. Or hey dude those gauged ears were done by themn weirdo ass rocker chicanos-or that fawking caligraphy wasnt done on any race before we made it gangster to get! Of course from my point of view---seeing us do it and tehn seeing others do it years later it would look like some biting ass shit-and soem of teh shit has alot of history with teh cholo like taht caligraphy neck chain and those weird ass clown faces-or teh placements and well seeing many of ideas popping up all over is a little shocking because people arent even privvy to it being ours----unless you grow on these streets. Here we got dudes like ED hardy whom admits his ideas come from gangsters-and he makes millions? or I see teh entire placement style of writing and designs on dudes like bowwow-wayne and tyga---that not a soul on this earth had every fathomed getting inked or doing before? why it gotta be us? I mean seriously?

[mayugastank]

This is the finished product I am talking about its been around with the street chicano since before I ever remember. Fonts-caligraphy-throwback to anicent mexico-splashes of Los Angelos-placements-everything its a finsihed product guy. Its deserves its respect-its was their before I ever hit the streets and Ive seen similar patterns amongst my people for grips. Their isnt anyother finished product like that anywhere in the world outside of japan and its why we borrow so much from eachother-back and forth. People of all races are either changing this design up a milllimeter or not changing it up at all to get THEIR look. What I am saying is that it shouldnt be that way as its a real deep history to the shit and fools got killed for it-and died for it. That butterfly on the neck was a good way to differentiate a southern hisapnic gangster and would get his ass stabbed by a northerner-not too long ago this suit was only worn around here. Well I posted some several dozen pics of rappers and such with absouletly ZERO....diviation from this style.

[mayugastank]

A list of notable black rappers/entertainers/musicians/actors whom have the full body cholo look and all its symbols--the chain/teh lettering the placement and color
or incorporated aspects of it --with zero differences

JRSMITH--DENVER NUGGETS
TYRESE
TYGA
CASHIS
WEEZY
Kenyon Martin - BRONCOS
Souljah Boy
WAK
MAINO
BOW WOW

Or else is left???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/thats off top!

[ViciousRidah]

REGIONAL as in a regional flavor--like the West coast dickies-pendletons-chucks-white Ts....No other region in the USA has a flavor of art-except NYCs graff scene-largely dominated by Puerto Ricans. I mean we can travel the world guy and and chicano art-jap art-are pretty much the dominant themes. So yes -you cannot open a tattoo magazine book and find ONE page without the two cultures flavor. Chicanos out here developed a style of graff influenced by NYC -but oh so different. The retro religious icons -women-etc...are the look of that day. Would bell bottoms look silly today? Yes till we find a way to modernize it like they did with the look of cholo. The long hair greased look of the 60s was the look sported by every hippy-the bald fade of the 90s likewise. Why wouldnt blacks or any other culture in the USA develop such a profound impact on skin art like the cholo? Yukuza tattoos were primarily done in poor quality much as the chicano tattoo because of a real means of tools--inks---constant electrical current. But the ideas were their and they expanded and adapted with the new themes brought about by japanimation. Yet despite this the figures were originally chinese in origin. Humm.....Here in the US and across the style of inkwork brought about by prisons is what set the tone for all manners of dress and art. I am being honest when I say that blacks never had too much of a hand in tattooing. In fact youd be hard pressed to find a black tattoo artist around here. Its an extremely NEW idea in modern black america-and it would explain why much of the sauce is delievered via chicanos. That supposed graff-look you say influenced the modern styles of tattooing is probably correct as -I remeber the art really being transformed -via new sets like the KWS 18 street click and taggers whom were forced to join gangs-in the 1990s. It was a thought even back then for me as I witnessed a whole new style of cholo graffiti still old school but bombed in a tagger fashion with exclamations and larger to smaller-looks. So yes assuming graffiti influenced cholo art why wouldnt it influence any other people on the land? Blacks -asians--whites? I mean most of what they all get are ideas originated in the head of the southwest chicano. So dont be surprised when a dude liek me says hey guy that fawking star you fools are starting to tattoo was done by nortenos back in the 1980s. Or hey dude those gauged ears were done by themn weirdo ass rocker chicanos-or that fawking caligraphy wasnt done on any race before we made it gangster to get! Of course from my point of view---seeing us do it and tehn seeing others do it years later it would look like some biting ass shit-and soem of teh shit has alot of history with teh cholo like taht caligraphy neck chain and those weird ass clown faces-or teh placements and well seeing many of ideas popping up all over is a little shocking because people arent even privvy to it being ours----unless you grow on these streets. Here we got dudes like ED hardy whom admits his ideas come from gangsters-and he makes millions? or I see teh entire placement style of writing and designs on dudes like bowwow-wayne and tyga---that not a soul on this earth had every fathomed getting inked or doing before? why it gotta be us? I mean seriously?

But the ideas were their and they expanded and adapted with the new themes brought about by japanimation. Yet despite this the figures were originally chinese in origin.

That supposed graff-look you say influenced the modern styles of tattooing is probably correct as -I remeber the art really being transformed -via new sets like the KWS 18 street click and taggers whom were forced to join gangs-in the 1990s. It was a thought even back then for me as I witnessed a whole new style of cholo graffiti still old school but bombed in a tagger fashion with exclamations and larger to smaller-looks. So yes assuming graffiti influenced cholo art why wouldnt it influence any other people on the land?

Exactly,Chicano tattooing art has always had its own tattoo designs no ''ifs', ''ands'', or ''buts'''about it. But my point is when hip hop graffiti became popular in the chicano varrios via black hoods, a lot of chicanos adopted some of those designs into tattooing.So when tattooing began to get real popular during the 1990s the CHicanos were putting the similar designs, depictions, layouts, and hit ups , that blacks did on their walls in the hood, back on to their own skin,with a chicano twist. And there is no denying that the strike ups and blasts done by chicanos have their own style, but a lot of new ideas came a long in the 1990s. The Cholos have always had full body tats no doubt, but I think there is a little difference between the cholo gangster tats done in the 70s and 80s , to the chicano tats done in the 90s and 2000s.

That example you gave about japanese tattooing designs being Chinese in origin is a perfect analogy to fit modern chicano art becoming as popular as it is today. I said before a lot of the Early Hip Hop graffiti tags , were just a spin off black power and panther murals done in the ghettos during the 70s. A lot of the art could also be attributed to the spaced out blaxipoitation ,funkadelic, Playalistic designs done in the 70s on black muscians album covers, if you checked out the album covers like Funkadelic,Slave and shit, you would see the similarities. So a lot of so called artist just expound on mess that was done before and spin it with their own sauciness to bring about their own brand, that's a good example of how hip hop graffiti started. Chicanos have always been doing murals in the hood since the 70s, I wonder if chicanos were doing them before blacks doing them in the hood cause they were doing some in the 70s as well.

Now I'm not going deny that a lot of designs blacks get are probably because they saw it on the walls of chicano tattoo parlors , that already had them cooked up.

Chicanos out here developed a style of graff influenced by NYC -but oh so different.

Right chicanos developed a style that was influenced by the blacks of LA who got it from the blacks of NYC. But at the same time that early hip hop art was just a rip off of ghetto murals and blaxopotation done in every ghetto nationwide .

[mayugastank]

"I grew up in the 60's," said Chuco, who was standing in front of the booth, "when you could own a tattoo only if you were a gang member, a drug addict, or in prison. Now, celebrities and movie stars have made tattooing mainstream." His black and gray designs, mostly portraits rendered in outline, were filled in with shadowing.



RIP CHUCO CABALLERO. This dude was an American Icon in the tattoo world. You know whom he meant when he said gang member and tattoos. That cholo~*