Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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mayugastank
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 2:39 pm

Never said that -I said NY ricans have some elements to their culture in NYC. They are black dirivitive and have african roots stronger then any mestizo culture they have at all. Africa in their songs-rythm -music--shoot even look!( I knew PR couples who were identical looking to mexicans who had offspring as black as any brother on the streets of LA) The mexicans in NYC are paisas! They have no identity -they are simply a immigrant class who looks to everyone else for a sense of who they are. What do you expect its what blacks do out in Los Angelos isnt it?hahaha. Their are many mexicans now in NYC ---now ----is the keyword! Picture freshly arriving to a new country with no family and no english skills--not even knowing your way around town ---and having a style of dress that represents MExico ---its like every other country in the world COLDBEAR--they rely on what NYC---and LA fashion experts put out and label this years look to wear!! The masses dress the same in Brazil-DR-PR-Mexico-Afghanistan- everywhere!! The style of the youth is the style that Dolce/Versace/Abercrombie ( especially!) /Phat FArm/ROCKAWEAR/ED HARDY ....put out! What I have said previously is that the history of these new fashions are directly connected to the new exploding tattoo culture! The designs seen on the GUIDOS of New Yorks shirts are ALL designs of tattoo patterns....check out any FLASH BOOK ( a book with tattoo patterns) and youll see ED HARDY wear. Now what I am saying is that a vast array of those prints and that style is KNOCK OFFS of chicano Los Angelos --tattoo patterns/ it isnt hard to see !! But who would know? Who would know how much of our art and history has been jacked! Now would you consider WHY these designs are popular? Jack Rudy/Freddy Negrete are both East Los Angelos born and raised they both were big influencers in Ed Hardys -designs and designed much of his patterns---he actually bought the tattoo shop to have developed all these patterns on his prints .....patterns designed by the CHOLO. But who would ever know? Just like the guidos in NYC --you probably believe taht shit their wearing isnt EAST LOS. What they have done is steal --mind me---STEAL the very essence of these streets ---throw a little jap into it and soem color ....and say hey !! new shit! but those patterns and that design were seen on these cholos for along time......
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 2:47 pm

Tattoos have become a worldwide, cultural phenomenon. Practically everyone has them, and they are no longer cultural stigmas. Instead, they are merely artistic expressions of the body. Many might have heard, or even have examples of, fine-line black and grey ink. But what many might no know is that they have tattoo legend Freddy Negrete to thank for that.


As a pioneer in the world of the fine line black and gray tattoo art, Negrete was part of a revolutionary group of tattoo artists with diverse styles, including Mark Mahoney, Bob Roberts and Leo Zuleta. Named tattoo artist of the year in 1980, Negrete has more than 35 years of experience under his belt. But that’s not all. During his busy tattooing career, Negrete found the time to finish college, work on movie sets and become a musician. Read on to find out what makes this tattoo legend tick!

A lot of tattoo artists get into the business because they obviously love tattoos. What’s your story on how you got into the business?

It’s always been my life. I got into as a kid. I was 12 years old and my whole arm was covered with handpicked tattoos, and in the ’70s that was kind of weird. My parents sent me to a psychologist and everything; they thought I was crazy. By the time I was 18 I was covered with them.

While I was in juvenile hall, I met guys with all types of tattoos and this just fascinated me. I got really good at drawing there. In youth authority, there was this lock-up program for the “criminally insane” and the staff there let us tattoo on each other. We had the homemade machines made out of cassette players and stuff. Since they let us do that, I got really good at it right there. Everyday I was tattooing. I was there for about three years, so when I got out I was tattooing at my apartment. Goodtime Charlie and Jack Rudy had opened up Goodtime Charlie’s in East L.A., and so I used to see the work they were doing. It used to be one of those little used-car lots. It had like a little house with an office building in the back with a fountain in the front.

They discovered that the people in East L.A. didn’t want color work and just wanted black, and the reason for that was because everybody wanted it to look like they got it done in prison. They saw tattoos that I did and sent word for me to go over there and eventually they gave me a job there. So, I must have been 17 when I mastered the art of tattooing professionally in 1977.

How would you say you pioneered the black and grey style?

I was already doing the prison-style tattoos in my apartment with homemade machines, but it was at Goodtime Charlie’s where we took the black and grey style and made into a professional tattoo style. Now it’s called fine-line black and grey. Back when I first started tattooing, the prominent style, of course, was the traditional style, which was what all the shops were doing. Those who wanted black and grey, prison-style came to us at Goodtime Charlie’s because no one else was doing it at the time. From then on, it became really popular and that’s really where my popularity lies.

Many consider you to be a legend in the industry? Do you think this of yourself?

I never want to straight say it since I’m humble, but I will accept the fact that I was the first one to introduce the style. If people want to stay legend, so be it.

So how did you end up working with the famed Ed Hardy?

Eventually, what happened was Good Time Charlie quit tattooing and Ed Hardy saw what we were doing and was amazed by that. He was already promoting the Japanese style in America. So when Good Time Charlie quit, he bought the tattoo shop, and named it Good Time Charlie’s Tattoo Land and that’s where we really took off in what we were doing.

Did Ed Hardy’s Japanese style technique rub off on you while working with him?

I was amazed with the Japanese style after that. I would see people covering their whole bodies with this one design and in color, so I started mixing black and grey with color, doing designs like that. I didn’t necessarily do Japanese style, but would take the homie style and would mix it with color and then make it big so that it covered more of the body in a particular area.

After working at various shops, you opened your own in Santa Barbara. How did that go?

Yup, I called it Ratatattoo, but I don’t have it anymore. It was a good tattoo shop. I had it from 1992 to 1998. I wouldn’t want the headaches of owning a shop again.

Where are you out of now?

I’m at Mark Mahoney’s Shamrock Tattoo on Sunset Blvd in Hollywood. I’m there full-time by appointment only. My son Isaiah is there with me. He actually tattoos tons of celebrities.

Speaking of which, what big names have you inked?

I’ve tattooed Brandy, Foxy Brown, Boy George [laughs], Jim Jones and a few others.

There’s a ten-year stint in your career, where you stopped tattooing. This was after you were named artist of the year in 1980. What made you want to stop?

At the time in East L.A. there was this other thing going on with Born Again Christians called Victory Outreach. They started preaching to gang members, and I was like a famous one there that became a professional tattoo artist. I knew all the main gangsters and Victory Outreach started coming around the shop to preach to the homies that would come around. I would actually see a big change in all these guys, and at the time, I started to have personal problems and they convinced me to join up with them. Once I did, they told me I had to stop tattooing since it was a sin, so I didn’t want to do it anymore. Of course I don’t feel that way now.

I remember them telling me that I’d be working for the church and getting paid by them. I was doing artwork for them since I knew how to run a printing press from my prison days, but when it came time to get paid I didn’t. So I got turned off with that.

So what else did you do in that gap?

I decided to go to college and went to Azusa Pacific. I was an Archaeology major, and my emphasis was apocalyptic literature. I got my B.A. and Masters.

When you started tattooing again, you went back to the Tattooland in San Diego, but then got the opportunity to work on movies. Can you tell me a little bit about this time in your career?

I was in San Diego for not quite a year, because after that I got a letter from this film director. He wanted somebody to help him. He was doing a prison movie, and he wanted somebody to help him with the tattoos since he wanted them to be authentic. So I met him, and they hired me, and I was working at my own shop and doing the movie thing for a while. I thought I was just going to be working a few weeks on that show, but so many things happened that he hired me for the rest of the duration. I worked on it for six months, and I became partners with Freddie Blau, the makeup artist. This was from 1990 to 2000. He’s the one that invented Real Creations. So, after that, he was the one who got me on a lot of films, about 30-something features. It was really fun. Some of the movies include Blood In Blood Out, Blade, Batman 2, Conair just to name a few. Together, Blau and I came up with tons of tattoos and different ways of doing it. I’m not doing it anymore because there are so many makeup artists that now do it that I’m not needed anymore. Back when it first took off, Freddy would always get me on the movie since none of the makeup artists could do it, so I would always make it impossible for them copy it so that I’d always get jobs. These makeup artists use Freddy’s tattoo kits and some of the tattoo designs that are included are mine.

Besides having worked on movies, you also dabbled in music a bit. Can you talk to me about your music career? Are you still doing it?

When I was doing temporary tattoos, I was doing it for this music video for some girl Raja Nay. I ended up putting them on her for real. When she came to the tattoo shop, she would bring her boyfriend with her, and he was cool. Well, the third time they came up there, I found out he was a producer. So I played the demo for him, and he said we could work something out. His name was Chris Gunn, and, way back then, in 1993, we started recording. Then, all of a sudden, the owner from Thump decided he didn’t want any more gangster rap because Kid Frost hit him, and he just had too many with him. And, at the same time, I was doing punk-style, Mexican rap lyrics, but I wanted to do rock n’ roll like my friend Lynn from Snot. I was all into Snot and rock n’ roll. I didn’t want anything to do with that other thing. My heart was set on keeping that rock ‘n’ roll thing. So, when we got back to Hollywood, this time, we got it going and we signed with Tyson Beckford, the supermodel. He had something going for us in New York, and we joined another group; me and my son since he sings, too, after the label went bankrupt. But that deal fell through.

This was the time when my youngest son passed away in 2004. My life was in shambles, so I ended up back in prison. When I got out, I then got arrested again, but then went into a Jewish rehab (my father is Mexican and my mother is Jewish). That’s where all the changes took place in my life. I got clean, started practicing Judaism and my producer would always call and tell me not to stop making music. Right now, I’m back on the music track and doing it again. We’ll see what happens.

So, having been in the industry so long, what are your thoughts on the progression of the tattoo world from when you first started until now?

I think that it’s legitimately become an art form. Of course there’s going to be people against it, but at least now it doesn’t mean you’re a reject from society, and the opposition because of a personal preference. You’d be considered a gangster before if you were all tatted up. Now you can go anywhere with tattoos. Before, you couldn’t get a job and you’d be judged a lot. I think there’s less judgment about it now. Still have some people who need to hide it because of their profession, like I tattooed this one lady who is a surgeon, but if you take her clothes off you’d see her whole body is covered with tattoos.

What about the new generation of tattoo artists? Do you welcome them?

I’ve always been all for new talent and new artists, which is uncommon for older artists. Most of the established tattoo artists are pretty quiet about the trade and don’t want new people in it because it means new shops and that means slower business for them. But, you have to accommodate the demand. I’m just happy to see all the talent and great tattoos being done now.


So what are your plans for the future? Will you always be tattooing?

I am going to the music thing, and I’m looking forward to that. And, I’ll always tattoo. I’ll keep at it, always doing my best. I’ll try to pickup on what the younger generations come up with and learn from them to become a better tattoo artist. I always want to be better. I’ve got to keep tattooing, or I’ll be in trouble with myself.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 2:53 pm

In summary..................Goodtime Charlies was a tattoo parlor owned and operated in EAST LOS-by and thru the chicano community. It was a rarity to see a tattooed fool who wasnt a vato in those times! Ed Hardy was one of the whiteboyz who was into the fashion---he worked really closely with the chicano community-and with some of the biggest names in the industry Freddy Negrete-Jack Rudy both designed many of the patterns seen on the worlds fashions now. Those prints are tattoo patterns used by the cholo. Ed Hardy realized teh potential of the street designs and bought GOODTIME CHARLIES. Ed Hardy was highly immersed in the tattoo East Los community .....its why all those designs are knockoffs of what we do ! COLDBEAR----art is easy to be stolen--but a little digging shows you were and how those patterns came about. The fashion of the streets -are and have always been connected to NYC and LA .....and mind you CHICANO LOS ANGELOS! So when you see them Paisas sporting HARDY WEAR let them know that WE in ELA give them permission!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 7th, 2010, 3:54 pm

mayugastank wrote:So really people who have investigated gangs -and even the tattoo artwork done now -always come back to El Paso and East Los Angelos -those are the origins of what constitutes modern gangs. The tattoos -dress-graffiti-writing and most of the clothing. Yea sure taggers did alot to change it up -but their were artists out here doing some off the wall shit in the 1980s for sure. I got my first tattoo on the top of a washer/set by an OG from White Fence for $15 bucks when I was 13 years old. Although a little faded its still extremely fresh and still the style of the day. HE whipped it out in 10 minutes flat. Its that skill which made the cholo art what it is. And black flavor didnt really and still not nakedly seen too much in chicano designs. The head tattoo/side of neck tat/stomache ab shot. Really since you and others are living close in proximaty to the cholo -you arent grasping that whole tattooed -for fashion and keeping it clean look --is RARE and its not done anywhere else on earth till the cholo did it. The YUKUZA gets their credit as they were the first to become masters at color -long before anyone. They literally have hundreds of patterns that are seen on every shirt ( HARDY: practiced under Japenese masters and under Chicano gangmembers while owning -the first black and grey style shop called GOODTIME CHARLIES TATTOOLAND pants, skateboard and skin. The cholo art is just as much in demand and just as seen. What isnt realized is that though we live around the style and have seen it metamorphisize ...its a fresh new look to the rest of the world. Even to brothers outside the enviroment of the CHOLO like in NYC and the SOUTH. Its probably why those MTV/BET brothers would so arrogantly appropriate the patterns of the vato from the street. A brother out here wouldnt be so fragrant in doing it because his whole life he has grown up seeing those patterns on the " ESEs".....and well he knows he would look like a bitch biting a vatos stilo. But Los Angelos is the mecca for fashion and art and although it may seem normal to us around here to view the vato and his ink as his signature .....that whole getdown was never done on this hemisphere before-Not NYC and THE DURTY SOUTH and not amongst whites outside of the SOUTHWEST till recently. Yet despite the concept of tattoos for as long as anyone can remeber only the CHOLO and the Japenese criminal have what would be considered a finsihed product. Anything else added or upgraded to both our styles is an accessory and not an outfit because our outfits have been done for long time WITHOUT anyones input.

You got a tat for $15,LOL , if that ain't some ghetto shitI don't know what is. But yea the cholos in los angeles do have some good tattooing styles, Los angeles seems to be the capital to get your body revamped, from highly amped work out gyms, to plastic surgery clinics,and tattoo parlors, there's a whole package to get your body modified for new millenium standards. Its like that in texas somewhat because tattooing is real big in Texas, if you notice Paul Wall ,Slim Thug, and Mike Jones main stream rappers who broke through sported way out tats way before most of these new school rappers and way before lil wayne went into a tattoo craze they had all those black and gray tats, but I think tats are big out in Texas just because people may have a loved one they want to keep in mind, the may be two lovebirds who just want to get each others name tatted on them, hoes like to get tramp stamps, and its somewhat of a sport cause people like to floss with it also. I am contemplating on getting a tat myself, and I'm thinking on going to one of the shops in la around hollywood to get it,because if I'm going to sport something the rest of my life I want to make sure it looks throwed as ever. But I'm very aware of how cholos took pride in their tats,and are responsible for putting it on blast. Modern styles are very tricky to stake claim to, for example dreads, something NYC wants to take credit for at times was started really by jamaicans, but their so much people doing it all through out the south. But fashion centers are really in Paris ,tokyo, Los angeles,Miami and London, many debuts in the fashion world are made there, a lot of things in fashion are made by certain people in certain area but are really made popular by another culture for example, carhatts was made for construction but it was the ish in NYC in the 90s, dickies and cornersacks were made forfactory workers but were made big by LA bangers, and Puma is real popular amongst Uk gangsters but that was probably made for sports work out fitness enthusiast,stacy adams is also popular among British gangsters as well.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 7th, 2010, 4:27 pm

mayugastank wrote:
Vicious you arent getting how rare it really is for a immigrant group of people to have their own style. Blacks and Mexicans and Occassionally Puerto Ricans( though they take most of their sauce from brothers) are essentially the only groups of Hyphentated-Americans to not completely sell out or wash off their home countrys after the second generation of children is born here. And as far as street style ....NO GROUPS besides black and mexicans can say they brought anything to the worlds culture-the street culture of this country or any regional flavor. Its why I single blacks out ---for soem things I believe they appropriated from ESEs. Not because of some jealousy but merely to battle with the only other hyphenated-american culture. I dont pick out Samoans/Armenians/Greeks/Viets/Cambos because they brought ZERO influence and merely appropriated the styles of the brothers and vatos. Just picture every group of immigrant in this country and youll see that they all either hold on to their homelands flavor for first generation and by the second generation tehy either mimick white society /black society or the style of the street vato .........whom white society dislikes evenly. Yet for all their crys on crime and criminals these white fools dont have a problem is jacking a VATOS whole dam demeanor! Because blacks havent nearly taken the flavor of the SOUTHWEST chicano as TAPOUT/WWE/BIKERS/ROCKERS have !
I agree with you on the fact that blacks and cholos don't wash out their culture for nada and keep the culture going strong for years. But if there was another culture that doesn't wash out there culture I would say Jamaicans and West Indians, as a matter of fact, its hard to really come by to make a decision . The thing is that a lot of these immigrant groups you are speaking of are young in american history,then again at the same time african americans are not immigrants cause they have been living there the longest, and some mexicans in the southwest are not immigrants at all like the Tejanos, so their culture is distinct because they have s lot of time here.Second a lot of these immigrant groups do keep their parents native culture and even merge their native heritage to make a new hybrid american sub cult. Like Asians I notice they have their own style that is kind of mix of cholo,black, and rave punkish,with their own native stuff, they are able to keep their own style regardless.Armenians Russians,Asians and other immigrants culture may have not influenced the rest of americans urban scene because they are not really that deep, plus they are not much of those kind of ghettos for fruition of a style.But then again why do asians care about whos biting their style when Japanese have toyota,toshiba nano bots ,japanamation,video games, etc etc they damn sure have an effect on american life. So some get their culture copied but not paid for it not something I'm too proud of.


To be continued......................................

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by 19DAGO04 » October 7th, 2010, 6:32 pm

mayugastank wrote:I give a fux if you believe me but send your email....its from the old school video of JOHNNY CASH -the photos are stills and they list the chicanos as gang members from OTAY. The video is from 1969-so figure that ~cholo. But type it in and youll see the stills for yourself.
Post the address up. Or a link.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 7th, 2010, 8:12 pm

There's a few things in your post I have to address
Cold Bear wrote:
A cholo hat they didn't design but have worn for so many generations without adapting that they believe it's theirs.

This is the same situation I was explaining about Carhartts,Dickies and Pumas in my last post, who started what trend and but who made what design labels. I understand that a certain designer label makes a hat or clothing but they can't make it a ''TREND'', unless a group of people catapult into popularity. Now fedoras and brims is something brothers used to do in the old days but added on their twist with it as brothers owned tailor shops and made custom fitted designs that were oh so tight( this were macks,playas, and gangstas bought from). Mexicans also used to sport fedoras too, so its safe to say Mexicans and blacks had a part in starting the fedora TREND.Chupallas is probably the americanized version for the Mexican fedora hat, it was something the probably adopted when they came here.

But this is no different from what so called hip hoppers in NYC in the 80s did, they sported veloir suits which was clothing produced by upper middle class whites, but it became a hip hop TREND later on.Even the trend of veloir was sported by whites in country clubs and italians greaseballs. Brothers sported veloir in the hood way before hip hop songs or videos, remember the OGs with permed out hair with veloir suits and puma sneakers on,(I've seen family pics of my folks in them threads)I wouldn't even give credit to hip hop for starting the trend of wearing veloir in the hood.As we been through this over and over in this thread black culture has always been biten off by the rest of america , like afros was copied by everybody in America during the 70s,all rap videos did was just televised whats going on in the hood, whether it be Detroit,Chitown, and Houston etc etc, people act like they haven't been biting blacks in america for years.
Cold Bear wrote: Mexicans do the same ass shit they been doing for generations and because they don't add anything to MODERN culture
I would say the same is for the current state of so called hip hop culture, I remember in the early 2000s when brothas in new york were so interested in wearing rags and puttin rhinestones in rags , then getting their shirts air brushed like they did in the 80s(I'll admit airbrushing one of the only things original about hip hop though),wearing dickie suits like LA bangers did in the 80s, and finally doing the rock n roll trend of the 80s, so the NYC HIP HOP have recycled stuff constantly.But the biggest example of how hip hop junkies in NYC recycled stuff in the early 2000s that little rock n roll trend they had(which still exist today) , remember ''The Diplomats'' , how they said their rockstars,wore chains of they belts, with tight jean pants and long john shirts( like rock n rollers), they thought they were original, they rest of NY thought that was so cool too so they bit it also, and henceforth so did the rest of hip hop world rap industry. But thats what hip hop always did ,bite and claim stuff. If hip hop wasn't bitin off a rock n roll they wouldn't be all this Ed Hardy shit and nerd glasses stuff, but thats why I don't think to high of hip hop , its all shit you see on TV its hollywood mane.
Cold Bear wrote: The trappings of their life in the US and living under a White system and the symbols of crime and oppression being the only identity they can hang their cholo hat on.

Thats basically what blacks did too, soul food is a perfect example of taking scraps and turning into something too eat.

Cold Bear wrote: young dudes wear fitteds, Black folks adapt. Mexicans do the same ass shit they been doing for generations and because they don't add anything to MODERN culture they start to lay claim to the old shit.
I don't agree with that totally like I said, you can even see with tattoos certain things evolved, they were certain times mexicans wore suspenders but dropped them.Remember when the cholo wore sneakers, socks and a khaki shorts now they sport denim pants ,steel toes, ed hardy gear,thats what you can catch a cholo sporting now, so they some what change, on top of that custom made lowrider bikes, as well as taco trucks that started food trucks across the nation ( not tryna be funny ) , but naw I give props were props is due.They do bring something to the table


Cold Bear wrote: I was just out in the Mexican neighborhood off Myrtle Wyckoff / Dekalb stops on the L last weekend. Goddamn there are a lot of Mexicans now. They all are adopting the gear and the street style of New Yorkers, man.
They not bringing their own shit except selling aguas frescas out their yard and tacos off the street.

Thats not true, the mexicans in NYC are not cholos but their definitely not into not adopting the street style of New Yorkers. They have been there for years, and they have their own distinct culture ,I forgot whats its called, but they wear hi top boots that kind of look like platforms, wide khaki pants especially at the bottoms ,hoodys,the baseball style hats not fitted hats,chains across the belt, sun glasses, Paco name brands, etc etc but they do not copy off the nyc street culture, they have their own distinct look.Salvadorians and Colombians do this too, and kinda have their own distinct style ,whereas puerto ricans tend to absorb many things from black culture like ( hip hop culture).
Cold Bear wrote: That's not even to start off with Dominicans because they are much newer to the States and retain a lot of their home culture.
At the same time , Dominicans are in vein with the street culture in NY, I don't know what you mean by new, but Washington Heights in the 80s was one of new york citys notorious neighborhoods and it was Dominican central, other places like Bushwick and East Harlem had lots of Dominicans, I would say Dominicans (platanos)at least came in waves to new york since the 1960s (''at least'') and were established there by the 80s. Domincans are not new jacks, they are gangs like DDP and Trintario which are pretty known on those streets, you don't even have Colombian, trindadian,Panamanian, or even jamaican gangs that are on the level as they are.
Cold Bear wrote: The real talk, the real slang, the real local graff cats putting it down (sorry fam "putting it down" is another NYC Hip-Hop based term)
If New Yorkers are saying that term then they are real late in the game, my homies been saying that in Texas since like 98 99, I remember I heard it in Cali years before,as well as the rest of the south, I think your telling me, mayagunstank , and the rest of us something we already heard in the 90s, but I'm sorry,If I remember correctly thats originally Cali slang dawg.

Cold Bear wrote: You see the real history and the real art and streets that made Hip-Hop and that made graffiti worldwide.

May have made it worldwide, but some places in the US like Oakland,Chi-Town,Philly, and LA already had its own kind of graffiti since the 60s.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 8:56 pm

PAUL WALL----art done by Cartoon/Junior Lopez and Abel Rocha.....hence the chicano flavor
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ABEL ROCHA tattooing Paul Wall
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 7th, 2010, 9:10 pm

I dont think --the cholo will ever fade /and yes he does change it up a little bit--not much but just enough to go with the times....coldbear/check out the zootsuiter from the late 1940s....the greaser cholo from the mid 50s....the long hair cholo from the 60s....the bell bottom cholo from the 70s....the tight pant and slick back short haired cholo of the 80s.....the big ass pants/converse and vans of the early 90s...the tighter pants and tattooed upside the head cholo of the later 90s and the the cholo of the early 2000s with pumas/fades/uncreased dickies and the cholo of today with his JORDANS and short socks with oversized dickie shorts.


One thing about EAST LOS is that the gangs out here like White Fence-Basset Grande-Jardin-Maravilla-38th -Dogtown.....have been able to do is withstand it all. All the trends and even the times when cholos arent popular amongst chicanos like now and teh early 1980s --when cholo gangs adopted the stoner style and begun naming themselves ...THE LOTT STONERS...WEST SIDE LONGO STONERS CLICK .....etc......I read that during those times gangs like Maravilla were ontheir last legs after a history of 100 plus years the changing of styles almost finished them off/not their enemies not prison/not cops....but a trend among chicanos to distance themselves from gangs.

You give no credit imagine a gang able to withstand the ragtime fad/the great depression/world war 1 and world war 2 ....the sixties/rap /rock and roll and heavy metal /skate board craze/ ...............YET 38th/White Fence/ Maravilla are still here ....not as big and not as strong but their presence is still felt heavy in East Los.....no where else and no other people besides Italians can say anything about an organization lasting thru every phase and situation.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 7th, 2010, 9:45 pm

No one is stealing your shit, yall people are gettin paid off it dummy. The Chicano wouldn't be who he is if it wasn't for the black fool, and that goes for every minority in America.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 7th, 2010, 9:51 pm

youngspade wrote:
perongregory wrote:Mr. Cartoon was in a black tagging crew. Vicious a lot of stuff you are trying to tell Mayuga we already said thousands of times in this thread but he is hell bent on Chicano work being the most original and influential art work in the world.
Im disappointed your still here my nigga,

Shit been MIA, Back In The City, Thats HOw You Know Im On The Streets, You guys havent seen me since I left vegas 2 1/2 months ago!
I wrote that one shit I'm back east now, shit I gotta pop in and see what mayuga is poppin every now and then.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 8th, 2010, 3:46 pm

COLDBEAR"
To see Chicanos hang on to fonts and tattoos as their identity. LOL



So what else would we hold on to ? I mean not another culture in this world besides us and the japs have a complete form of body art. With thousands and thousands of symbols-lettering--color coordination-placements-figures ...its worldwide...its ED HARDY-and every rocker and black musician LOOK! It is directly responsible for starting the tattoo craze worldwide...yet what is new to you and the rest of the world was done here for generations!...In fact -the history of this FINE LINE BLACK AND GREY is traced to the revolved culture of tattooing worldwide. During the times of Roman Catholic Imperialism the tattoo culture was lost-outlawed and granted even declared a mortal sin! Believe that -not till the 19th century was the art perfected/and we made this shit directly. So its an embarrassment to hang our hats on one the most unique arts worldwide? I broke it down piecemeal earlier their isnt a culture in all the South Americas or Central-Canada and even a form of tattooing in this country besides what the chicano made, cholo. So let me explain it to you--as much as your Jazz-Motwon-RnB -and even the history of Rock and Roll ( dont blacks constantly point out they invented it?) is a form of African American art ....we have our designs -symbols-placements-inks-styles ---and it isnt limited to SKIN---its shot thru the world with a speeding bullet ---the day of the dead artwork mixed with xicano themese,cholo, is on every new outfit and give it a few years and it will be number one --xicanos are responsible for this explosion likewise,cholo, so I dont get you? Would blacks lay down to see xicanos get their patterns tattooed on the world without ever bringing it up ? page after page after page in this thread is filled with black thugs/rappers/artists/musicians/ sporting OUR indetifiers. Youd be a fool to say the worlds trend isnt joined at the hip with tattooing right now---I mean ED HARDY is nothing but tattoo flash( patterns) .....Dolce Gabana--new line is all tattoo patterns. Come on,cholo, we put it on the map we made this whole explosion possible...what you and the world see as FRESH is old news in East Los -cholo.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 8th, 2010, 4:14 pm

In Oklahoma now, Tatts I see a whole bunch of American eagles, flags, barb wire bands, celtic bands, you know white biker shit, one dude did have two tear drops though. No chicano shit except that. East Los aint far east enough ya dig?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 8th, 2010, 4:47 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:
mayugastank wrote:
Vicious you arent getting how rare it really is for a immigrant group of people to have their own style. Blacks and Mexicans and Occassionally Puerto Ricans( though they take most of their sauce from brothers) are essentially the only groups of Hyphentated-Americans to not completely sell out or wash off their home countrys after the second generation of children is born here. And as far as street style ....NO GROUPS besides black and mexicans can say they brought anything to the worlds culture-the street culture of this country or any regional flavor. Its why I single blacks out ---for soem things I believe they appropriated from ESEs. Not because of some jealousy but merely to battle with the only other hyphenated-american culture. I dont pick out Samoans/Armenians/Greeks/Viets/Cambos because they brought ZERO influence and merely appropriated the styles of the brothers and vatos. Just picture every group of immigrant in this country and youll see that they all either hold on to their homelands flavor for first generation and by the second generation tehy either mimick white society /black society or the style of the street vato .........whom white society dislikes evenly. Yet for all their crys on crime and criminals these white fools dont have a problem is jacking a VATOS whole dam demeanor! Because blacks havent nearly taken the flavor of the SOUTHWEST chicano as TAPOUT/WWE/BIKERS/ROCKERS have !
I agree with you on the fact that blacks and cholos don't wash out their culture for nada and keep the culture going strong for years. But if there was another culture that doesn't wash out there culture I would say Jamaicans and West Indians, as a matter of fact, its hard to really come by to make a decision . The thing is that a lot of these immigrant groups you are speaking of are young in american history,then again at the same time african americans are not immigrants cause they have been living there the longest, and some mexicans in the southwest are not immigrants at all like the Tejanos, so their culture is distinct because they have s lot of time here.Second a lot of these immigrant groups do keep their parents native culture and even merge their native heritage to make a new hybrid american sub cult. Like Asians I notice they have their own style that is kind of mix of cholo,black, and rave punkish,with their own native stuff, they are able to keep their own style regardless.Armenians Russians,Asians and other immigrants culture may have not influenced the rest of americans urban scene because they are not really that deep, plus they are not much of those kind of ghettos for fruition of a style.But then again why do asians care about whos biting their style when Japanese have toyota,toshiba nano bots ,japanamation,video games, etc etc they damn sure have an effect on american life. So some get their culture copied but not paid for it not something I'm too proud of.
To be continued......................................

To define what actually is watered down when a minority has spent vast amount of years in a country is cumbersome and intangibile.Oriental Asians are a perfect example Just because Asian culture isn't exactly visible, prominent throughout the known us(to some degrees), influential as blacks or chicanos( again to some degrees), and even subtle to most people, doesn't mean exactly Asians sell out their culture. Asians are a little discreet and would rather open up a Chinese take out restaurant in your neighborhood, they would rather give some Karate training lessons to police academy and special forces drill instructors,supply your bootleg goodies (dvds,tapes,hats,) own a dry cleaning store. Koreans as well owning nail salons or Koreans owning liquor stores, and of course your broods most loved weave shop owned by Asians are just examples of how they keep up traditions.

Even from a street stand point, some Asians start up their own gangs like TRG , and keep to themselves most of their rivalry occurs in their own neighborhood. They are Chinese civil rights groups in this country.The Chinese American has been in the US since the 1880s, the old racist adage saying the ''the Chinaman built the railroad'' signifies how long the Chinese have been here. Chinese have been in the US for years, and guess what they are many Chinatowns around the country. There are quite a few Korean towns around the U.S.as well, the point is ,these ethnic groups are still maturing in the US and still have some time to grow who knows which culture would become more appealing to the American public tomorrow. Hell there is a little Ethiopia in DC and Los Angeles, Ethiopians haven't been in this country that long, but are able to have their own little spot were commuters flock too.


A lot of ethnic groups may have adapted some of the stuff blacks do, that's because they become Americanized, which is the standard for cool nowadays , but some ethnic groups may keep their own homeland culture intact and keep certain personal business to themselves.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 8th, 2010, 4:53 pm

The mind and Imagination of an XICANO~

Dont get mad CHOLO, you can get in on the fun 2......just be respectful and dont be blasting our tatts on your body claiming you started it or you didnt bite it! And to COLDBEAR whom said we dont change? I mean we didnt tattoo like this 10 years ago --did we? our artists getting better by the pund and by the day--fresh new talented vatos join the ranks daily -cholo-and they bring fresh new styles---but why I got to reiterate it? I mean just get on BET and check out every black artist and rapper to see XICANO art ,cholo.
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 8th, 2010, 5:04 pm

I got to disagree most those groups do sell out-asian chicks are in search of the newest white guy to try and pin down. They have zero street culture in this country--TRG did nothing but bite the style of the LONGOs a notorious latino gang in LBc...shoot they even bit the tattooing--they didnt bring anything--they just took! Ethopians are well off and we have yet to see how these groups adopt their new country. From reading on Cubans in Miami -Ive seen they are quickly adopting this countrys attitutdes on race and social class---and a big divide exists between white/black cubans were as no lines were present in CUBA. DRs and Haitians will be absorbed into black America -I mean they are black! Either you adopt black culture and renige on white society--(a choice really only up to those immigrants whom grew here and not flew here) or you sell out completely and change your name from Xiouang Chioux...to Henry Smith ( alot of asians have done this) and send your daughter out to make white friends whom always consider the dorky asian chick ....its why I see such stupidity amongst our peoples ( black/brown) I mean with the gang rivalrys---we are the only unique peoples here able to swim amingst 2 worlds and do it respectfully....yet blacks are solely to blame because instead of welcoming an ally --they viewed it as competition

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 8th, 2010, 5:43 pm

You really think Mexicans see blacks as an ally? Yeah right...Only a minority of both blacks and Mexicans see how benefecial an alliance between the two groups would be, and these are small historically centered, progressive blacs and Chicanos. The average Mexican doesn't even regard blacks or think their nuisances, or are on some racist shit, the avg. Black is ignorant and don't know shit and can't see anything.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 8th, 2010, 8:00 pm

mayugastank wrote:
I got to disagree most those groups do sell out-asian chicks are in search of the newest white guy to try and pin down. They have zero street culture in this country--TRG did nothing but bite the style of the LONGOs a notorious latino gang in LBc...shoot they even bit the tattooing--they didnt bring anything--they just took! Ethopians are well off and we have yet to see how these groups adopt their new country. From reading on Cubans in Miami -Ive seen they are quickly adopting this countrys attitutdes on race and social class---and a big divide exists between white/black cubans were as no lines were present in CUBA. DRs and Haitians will be absorbed into black America -I mean they are black! Either you adopt black culture and renige on white society--(a choice really only up to those immigrants whom grew here and not flew here) or you sell out completely and change your name from Xiouang Chioux...to Henry Smith ( alot of asians have done this) and send your daughter out to make white friends whom always consider the dorky asian chick ....its why I see such stupidity amongst our peoples ( black/brown) I mean with the gang rivalrys---we are the only unique peoples here able to swim amingst 2 worlds and do it respectfully....yet blacks are solely to blame because instead of welcoming an ally --they viewed it as competition


I'm not no fag ass fashion expert or nothin like that but I do notice Asian bangers havin these wild out hair due with that rave wave style kind of clothes thing going on,


mayugastank wrote: Ethopians are well off and we have yet to see how these groups adopt their new country.

Ethiopia is a country that is strcken with poverty, by know means do they come here well off, they come to the U.S. ,work their ass for want they want, and sometimes get it, just like any immigrants who wants to come here to get a better life.
mayugastank wrote: DRs and Haitians will be absorbed into black America -I mean they are black!

Yes and no , Dominicans are cool with blacks and seem to click in well when dealing with us african americans here most times. But some of them still are able to retain their own culture, their some who are americanized cause they grew up in the hood and been through the whole nine yards ,then there's some who stick to their own cause its a sign of die hard dedication and patriotism.But for the most part, dominicans do mesh in well with blacks.

At the same time dominicans have their own culture from the land their from, and if they want to stick to it they can do it.That's their business, no hard feelings, but if some want to unite because were black then that's fine, theres is some remnants of culture similarity within our background believe it or not.If you want to make it a black thing its fine, I have have family from the carribean as well many carribean ex s .But understand most DRs would say their hispanic first, the black second.



As for hatians, in some places like NY they haven't real reached the full acceptance of other african americans as well as other west indians, but some places like miami they are genrally cool and straight with the rest of mofos.
mayugastank wrote: From reading on Cubans in Miami -Ive seen they are quickly adopting this country's attitutdes on race and social class---and a big divide exists between white/black cubans were as no lines were present in CUBA.

Cubans whether being more black or more white are Cuban regardless, I doubt theres that much of rift, but I could be wrong. But yes in Miami some CUbans do hold some bias to blacks , but what the hell, I careless.

I've met some CUbans who weren't to bad.

mayugastank wrote: I mean with the gang rivalrys---we are the only unique peoples here able to swim amingst 2 worlds and do it respectfully....yet blacks are solely to blame because instead of welcoming an ally --they viewed it as competition

Now tell me why would you even say blacks are to blame for black and brown tension. Wouldn't you say its because of some of the media hyping it up, too much websites hype(including this one to keep it real),ignorant fools who want to pump stuff up, people who want to spark somethin but don't know what their gettin into cause they want to see a fight.

Blacks THEMSELVES need to learn how to pull out of their own nonsense, and see whats the problems in their hoods ,lives,situations and political atmosphere . Mexicans need to do so likewise. At the same time I have no problems of black and brown uniting and seeing shit on the same level, hell thats cool to me.

There some blacks who just want to stick to whats they know what they have seen and what they have been fed, and thats an ignorant kind of brother . So if I was to bring that type of brother to a brown and black treaty or sumthin, the ignorant brother would spoil things.So my thing is black /brown gettin down on the right precepts.Now let it be known , mexicans got they issues unique to them and we have our own issues unique to us, but we have a lot of the same issues in common , so imagine if we could both click up , and ride on the same nonsense hatin ass government hipocrites try to deal us.That would be something won't it.

At the same time ,if mexicans is doing his thing and is not really interfering with black progression but is really focusing on whats going within their community their issues thats cool too,I ain't got that ''either with me or against me mentality'', people see things black and white not me. But I don't see why it can't go down, many mexican and black gangs have the same history, like watts varrio ,nutthood varrio, and cv70 etc

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » October 9th, 2010, 6:38 am

The TRG point, in this context holds some weight, is moot, you yourself even conceded your point to mine in another discussion on the topic. You can't generalize when there are variables. As Vicious said they're were obviously Asians "doing their own thing", those who brought their 'gang' and our criminal mentality with them from their homeland and simply adapted it to American street life and crime continued to do their own thing before the Youth in their communities began to identify w/ that pop bet/mtv culture. This is no different from Hispanic youth who live a life that has nothing to do with gangs outside of listening to Mr.Caponee or whats is name from Daygo, then out come the Frisco Bens and Locs while dude's little sister plasters her walls with their posters and starts drawing on her eyebrows. I've seen middle class, well to do Hispanics emulate a lifestyle, not their culture simply by ethnicity, just as much as I've seen others of different ethnic backgrounds do the same.
On the flip side of the topic you've got Asians who may have not been criminal minded, personally, when arriving to the USA but were indeed war scarred, mentally, from their country. This said Asians land in another, 'war torn', place in the USA which, undoubtedly, is nothing compared to the strife in their homeland. They then get attacked, repeatedly, by gangs and, fastforward a bit here, they emulate the styles of their attackers and begin to take their retaliations one step further. As if to be perpetuating the war torn state and mentality of those in their homeland.

Just take, for instance, Guerrilla Soldiers in the jungles and mountains of S. America, with the same pecking order, rank and file, dress, weapons as the real military only with opposing actions but no one's calling them out for straight jacking the style of the military, the very people they despise nonetheless. It's because thats what they(the guerrillas)have been conditioned to believe an "imposing, empowered entity" is meant to look like. It's Newton's laws of motion applied socially, 'To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.'

This is why TRG, and so many Asian gangs who grew up in areas populated by other races, Asians who's parents were so disturbed, and so distracted with a lifetime of PTSD that they couldn't weren't able to grasp the nature of their situation, or preserve the passing of the culture in it's entirety to their kids, and they became influenced by their surroundings because, these kids, were all very much American to begin with as a little kid.
When you spent the first year or 2, that you can remember, walking mile after mile all day, everyday, only to wind up in some refugee tent city in another country before finally landing in a house in the USA, well then that sorta makes the USA the only country you're able to recall being your home now, wouldn't it?
And again, on the flipside, you've got Asians like in the OC for instance who, despite being the second least populace minority in the county(second only to blacks) they lived in Asian dominant communities or cities, and carved out their own niche and style of gangbanging, banging in black slacks and strap sandals, rocking shaved heads with bleached bangs. As a matter of fact, back in those days the only Asian gangs who did do the cholo thing were generations deep Pinoy gangs transplanted from LA who'd been doing the Cholo thing with a Pinoy twist for as long as the cholos were doing the cholo thing. And yes those gangs, when in the OC, did indeed contain Asian ethnicities other than Pinoy who dressed the cholo part but that was the exception, not the norm for the majority of their aforementioned ethnicities who gangbanged just a few miles away in places like Westminster or Garden Grove.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 9th, 2010, 4:00 pm

perongregory wrote:

You really think Mexicans see blacks as an ally? Yeah right...Only a minority of both blacks and Mexicans see how benefecial an alliance between the two groups would be, and these are small historically centered, progressive blacs and Chicanos.
They may not see them as allies but they don't necessarily see them as enemies either. Of course theres some of them who are on some racial supriority nigger killer aztlan shit, but there's some who know how brothers get down,and are the homies to some brothers in the hood, since in some areas the neighborhoods are mixed,where brothers and chocanos grew up with each other.






The average Mexican doesn't even regard blacks or think their nuisances, or are on some racist shit, the avg. Black is ignorant and don't know shit and can't see anything.[/quote]

Saying the average mexican considers a black as a nuisance, I don't think that's correct, mexicans and blacks have lived along side each other in many areas of the US including LA, Houston,San Antonio, and Chicago with out any racial hatred most of the times.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 9th, 2010, 5:38 pm

I said the avg Mexican does,kt really regard blacks before I said the others. Yeah Mexicans live with Blacks but they also live with whites, Asians, and their own more than blacks in so cal and LA.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 9th, 2010, 7:08 pm

perongregory wrote:I said the avg Mexican does,kt really regard blacks before I said the others. Yeah Mexicans live with Blacks but they also live with whites, Asians, and their own more than blacks in so cal and LA.
The average mexican is concerned on whats going on with them and their own situations just like anybody else. I don't think they care about white, black,and asians they just care what going on with in their own lives.

They are some mexicans that live along side some whites and alongside asians but this is in well off middle class neighborhoods, and is usually not in low poverty income settings, not in ghettos. Blacks and chicanos have in the past decades lived alongside each others ghetto neighborhoods and were usually not in conflict,espcially if it wasn't gang related. And thats funny because they lived in the same neighborhoods, but it wasn' t the same world, because their lifestyles and ours were different.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 9th, 2010, 7:19 pm

That's what I was saying most Mexicans not thinkin about ally or not, they living. Mexicans have lived, and live with everyone in Cali. In the valley they live with white folks, in East LA they live with other Mexicans, In the South Bay they live with whites, blacks and Asians, in LB they live with whites blacks and Asians, In South LA they live with blacks, In Highland Park they live with Pinoys and. Whites up the street, In Echo park they live with hipster whites,etc. They don't exclusively live with us, really in most black northern cities blacks almost live exclusively amongst themselves.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 9th, 2010, 7:50 pm

perongregory wrote:That's what I was saying most Mexicans not thinkin about ally or not, they living. Mexicans have lived, and live with everyone in Cali. In the valley they live with white folks, in East LA they live with other Mexicans, In the South Bay they live with whites, blacks and Asians, in LB they live with whites blacks and Asians, In South LA they live with blacks, In Highland Park they live with Pinoys and. Whites up the street, In Echo park they live with hipster whites,etc. They don't exclusively live with us, really in most black northern cities blacks almost live exclusively amongst themselves.

Yea but saying that the average mexican thinks of blacks as ignorant and a nuisance wouldn;t be true, it would basically depend on the individual chicano one is talking about. I mentioned mexicans living with blacks in poverty is because usually in those situations conflicts arise, and people bump heads, Back in the 80s blacks and chicanos lived in the same neighborhoods as blacks, but not too much friction occurred for the most part, in fact a lot of times they were allies back then, as you get to the 90s those bonds kind of brooke apart.

In northern cities like in Detroit in Southwest were mexicans and blacks aren't in too much conflict. In Houston it really isn't any brown vs black thing either.You may have mexican and black gangs going at it but not on because its racial. You have have some mexcian crips despite that being a traditional black gang.

Mexicans have been moving in rapidly into black neighborhoods in northern cites in the past decades but they really go unnoticed to most black folk.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 9th, 2010, 8:33 pm

I'm not saying they all see us as a nuisance or hate us, the point I'm making is most Mexicans are not giving a thought about blacks should be our allies, so Mayuga's accusatory statement about blacks fucking up potential alliances/unity with Mexicans, is BS...Blacks aint messin up anything because both the avg. Black and Mexican aint thinkin about no such thing.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 9th, 2010, 8:48 pm

perongregory wrote:I'm not saying they all see us as a nuisance or hate us, the point I'm making is most Mexicans are not giving a thought about blacks should be our allies, so Mayuga's accusatory statement about blacks #%@&#%@ up potential alliances/unity with Mexicans, is BS...Blacks aint messin up anything because both the avg. Black and Mexican aint thinkin about no such thing.
Exactly, I was trying to explain that to, its a lot of factors that have soured the mexican and black relations, like media and new cooked up rumors being accepted by individuals on both sides. Theres ignorant verbiage brothers speak about mexicans and it is something I can't stand. On that same note there certain non-blacks down talkin down on the black race who chose not to be more socially sensible and be aware of the underlying scheme coming into play.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 9th, 2010, 10:10 pm

perongregory wrote:I'm not saying they all see us as a nuisance or hate us, the point I'm making is most Mexicans are not giving a thought about blacks should be our allies, so Mayuga's accusatory statement about blacks #%@&#%@ up potential alliances/unity with Mexicans, is BS...Blacks aint messin up anything because both the avg. Black and Mexican aint thinkin about no such thing.
How so do mexicans and blacks not see our common problems-I mean really when your concerned about your family and your income and the pebbel in your shoe is a bigger nusiance then the mountain ahead of you then --yea your immediate problems bare alot more weight then 'BLACK PRIDE-BROWN LOVE" it might be true that only the most progressive of our groups are abel to see the sitaution clearly but my personal opinion coming from other chicanos in and around blacks is that blacks are hostile towards them and other latinos-and that along history of that hostile behaviour has led to what is now going on and much of the bad feelings. I tend to give this more weight then mexicans are racist!" The situation in Staten Island and NYC should be clear indicators of black hostility. I mean their are no chicanos their and the gangs teh mexicans do have are young-wannabees who saw a show on gangland about mexicans in LA and think dam -we can do that 2. Most aint never been here. Their is no way that teh vietnamese in Philly brought those beatings on themselves. Blacks tend to alienate themselves and do it through their generally HATER attitude. Jealousy or whatever the hell. Before those mexicans begun getting it in Staten Island , Italian youth were getting it just as bad-gangs of blacks would go out GUIDO bashing and its why the blacks and italians started going at it. People generally tend to mind their own but for some reason blacks have alot of hostility towards immigrant groups. And white youth. I personally have never felt anything but love from black people -but I havent had to ever deal with them 2 much being from East Los. When I have been around them they saludos my way, give me a waz up heads up. Hold the door open -smile. Maybe they see an American --Mexican. And not a Mexican I dont know. But the stories paisas have told me havent been good at all. And these paisas and others ebgin spreading that hate --and well bam "race war" like in Florencia. The story on gangland opened up with dude getting his bike jacked and then blasting black dude......this situation to the 10th power---is why we have this race war. It isnt mexicans its blacks. Sorry to throw the blame one way but its true.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » October 9th, 2010, 10:33 pm

I'm not gonna type out a full response...

BS, The race war would've been poppin if what ur sayin is the truth. Also, it would've popped in thebay as well, Texas, etc. But no. Mexicans aren't racist per se but they have prejudices coming from a country with a racist Spanish system, into a country with a racist Anglo system. People always point at blacks yet ignore their folks BS. Before I get into the hostile LA maxican, I'll talk about these white youth and such.

Do you know Spike Lee, Chris Rock, and others would get the shit beat out of them every day walking through Benson-Hurst and other Italian hoods? Do you know that both the Irish and Italians, and the whites in LA, and all throughout America terrirized blacks as the law, angry mobs, military, etc. For years and we've been here longer then some of these groups? You ever hear about the NY draft Riots where the Irish went through NY killing blacks and even burned a black orphanage to thhe ground screaming burn the nIgger's nest? And we're supposed to kick back? Ignorance breeds ignorance, violence, violence, hatred etc. Bringing me to the innocent Mexicnas.

Mexicans are by no means innocent in this game. You are right Mexicans created TRG etc. They created these Asian gangs by constantly bulllying and picking out Asians for racist actions till the Asians busted back, oh the chinos, till the chinos got it crackin. Same thing with the Salvis, and Armenians. Mexicans have a very xenophobic group within their ranks, almost like brown Nazis.

That's it, I'll address the shit and the ignorant black in depth later.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 10th, 2010, 4:13 am

BULLETTXX,

So in your eyes other groups using the patterns of the chicano is no issue? If the tables were turned would anyone ever act so graciously? has any chicano besides me ever made it a beef? Its now that I am seeing it far and wide and to where many of MY tattoos are showing up everywhere does it begin to bother me--because its an affront to what it all meant! Yet I guess --we or anything we do is for sale now and people like WIZ KHALIFA should be abel to take the arts styles and repackage.
You do know that this art was brought about by shear brutal oppression and those clowns with tears and shit is really represntative of my peoples struggle .....The shit was born in an American GULAG and born out the chicanos struggle against the machine---who chomped up and ate many chicanos whom sported that look. That look was a sure identifier of a chicano who didnt conform up until recently !!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » October 10th, 2010, 6:05 am

mayugastank wrote:BULLETTXX,

So in your eyes other groups using the patterns of the chicano is no issue? If the tables were turned would anyone ever act so graciously? has any chicano besides me ever made it a beef? Its now that I am seeing it far and wide and to where many of MY tattoos are showing up everywhere does it begin to bother me--because its an affront to what it all meant! Yet I guess --we or anything we do is for sale now and people like WIZ KHALIFA should be abel to take the arts styles and repackage.
You do know that this art was brought about by shear brutal oppression and those clowns with tears and shit is really represntative of my peoples struggle .....The shit was born in an American GULAG and born out the chicanos struggle against the machine---who chomped up and ate many chicanos whom sported that look. That look was a sure identifier of a chicano who didnt conform up until recently !!

I see no issue with any race influenced by another unless it's like kids in the burbs(of any race) trying to act like some rapper out the hood they idolize from the TV, and even then it's more of a "dude you live in a nice tract housing community in the burbs...be yourself." than it is "fucking race traitor piece of shit unoriginal wigger"
lol

It's a demographical/geographical thing that is far from ethnospecific, I made my points, it's up to you try and see where I'm coming from without actually being me and where I'm from, I've done my best to explain it to you. You made attempts to generalize Asians and Asian gangsters when it obviously seems quite apparent that the situations you describe are quite exclusive and isolated to certain cities where the Asian populations were "first generation: Asian-Americans from war torn countries whos parents are too wacked out with PTSD to raise their kids the way they would have been back home have their kids overly influenced by their surroundings. Asians gangs in the OC were unlike Asian gangs in LBC, even though they were literally like 4-5 freeway exits away. Then, on the flipside, you've got Philipinos raised in the Rampart district, who's families have been there since the 30's and 40's, who act, dress and even represent Sur to the fullest yet you've got nothing to say on that because, what, they're representing sur so it's cool? Product of your environment, influenced by your surroundings. This is why you also have White-washed kids of ALL ETHNIC BACKGROUNDS, hispanic, asian, black, because they're influenced by their surroundings, raised in upper-middle class settings. Asians from the bay acting straight black, because they were raised around straight blacks, or the blacks in sur gangs who act and talk straight cholo, or the hispanics who rolled crip till Eme shot that shit down, whites in hispanic gangs, raised around hispanics, act hispanic. etc.

Shall we talk about CVs and their obvious influence from the black Compton hoods?

You seem to deflect valid points that Hispanic(s and their) art as it is in it's current state, tattooing or otherwise, has evolved due to obvious outside influences, which is one of the reasons why you were unable to produce a picture of the art/tattoos in their current state prior to the 90s, because it didn't exist in that state. Which is one of the reasons many of us have tried to say it's an American thing, not Chicano, it's a Cali thing, not Chicano, its an LA thing, not Chicano. But you seem to misconstrue "American" as something separate from Chicano/Hispanics all together, as if Hispanics and Chicano art are some sort of mythical force, exempt from the outside influence and everyday social evolution.

Anyways, as always you have valid points but their drowned out in stereotypical racist tones that I don't care to cater to.

peace

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » October 10th, 2010, 11:08 am

mayugastank wrote:
perongregory wrote:I'm not saying they all see us as a nuisance or hate us, the point I'm making is most Mexicans are not giving a thought about blacks should be our allies, so Mayuga's accusatory statement about blacks #%@&#%@ up potential alliances/unity with Mexicans, is BS...Blacks aint messin up anything because both the avg. Black and Mexican aint thinkin about no such thing.
How so do mexicans and blacks not see our common problems-I mean really when your concerned about your family and your income and the pebbel in your shoe is a bigger nusiance then the mountain ahead of you then --yea your immediate problems bare alot more weight then 'BLACK PRIDE-BROWN LOVE" it might be true that only the most progressive of our groups are abel to see the sitaution clearly but my personal opinion coming from other chicanos in and around blacks is that blacks are hostile towards them and other latinos-and that along history of that hostile behaviour has led to what is now going on and much of the bad feelings. I tend to give this more weight then mexicans are racist!" The situation in Staten Island and NYC should be clear indicators of black hostility. I mean their are no chicanos their and the gangs teh mexicans do have are young-wannabees who saw a show on gangland about mexicans in LA and think dam -we can do that 2. Most aint never been here. Their is no way that teh vietnamese in Philly brought those beatings on themselves. Blacks tend to alienate themselves and do it through their generally HATER attitude. Jealousy or whatever the hell. Before those mexicans begun getting it in Staten Island , Italian youth were getting it just as bad-gangs of blacks would go out GUIDO bashing and its why the blacks and italians started going at it. People generally tend to mind their own but for some reason blacks have alot of hostility towards immigrant groups. And white youth. I personally have never felt anything but love from black people -but I havent had to ever deal with them 2 much being from East Los. When I have been around them they saludos my way, give me a waz up heads up. Hold the door open -smile. Maybe they see an American --Mexican. And not a Mexican I dont know. But the stories paisas have told me havent been good at all. And these paisas and others ebgin spreading that hate --and well bam "race war" like in Florencia. The story on gangland opened up with dude getting his bike jacked and then blasting black dude......this situation to the 10th power---is why we have this race war. It isnt mexicans its blacks. Sorry to throw the blame one way but its true.

Mexicans and blacks obviously do have some of the same problems,but is every individual from the two minorities willing to work together to solve the same problems they both share in common. Their blacks in their own community who don't want to work together to solve the general problems afflicting their neighborhoods like registered sex offenders living next door, food markets violating USDA food regulations,waste mismanagment and police brutality. There only some blacks who have and are beginning to become socially conscious, their beginning to address these issues working in unison with each other. And only those sincere and with the drive in the black community to make changes can make an effect on the community.This can be relative to black and brown working together to solve problems also,ONLY THOSE SINCERE AND WILLING TO TAKE ON FLAWS IN THE SYSTEM would be successful. And you know what this is not just on community protest,boycotts and mini riots. This can be on a street tip with the black and brown gangsters , think how many black and mexican gangs living in the same neighborhood . Why do black and brown both have to fight over the scraps???

Blacks everywhere are not the same. You can't take one incident in one neighborhood or even in one city, then place the blame on all blacks in america. Blacks in different neighborhoods, cities,and regions get down differently no matter what one opinions may be even other blacks.We are not all the same. Of course they are blacks thugs and blacks gangstas in these different cities but they are different. Same instance for mexicans.Just like Tejanos have their gangstas in Texas which are get down different like the Texas Syndicate, Barrio Azteca etc as opposed to the Chicanos in Cali which are the Surs and Nortenos,they 're Different brands of gangsta woth different styles, its the same situation with blacks not every blacks in every city is the same and gets down the same, in some places like NYC and Philly are different from blacks in southern cities like Atlanta,Memphis, and Miami, or in Midwest cities like Detroit St.Louis, and Kansas City that kind of racist stuff has never happened in those region where blacks are preying on mexicans. So I wouldn't blame a mexican from East LA for being on high alert if they walking in cities like NYC for that staten island incident happening or a vietnamese from Long Beach traveling in Philly being on high alert traversing there.This is why I get mad when you got former snitch informants turned community advocates like Al Sharpton brown nosing in racial affairs in LA, people like that don't understand the dynamics of whats going on in the streets in certain cities, and may even add gasoline to the fire.

Mexicans haven't been totally innocent either from racist motivated attacks look at gangs like Hawiian Gardens, Avenues,204 st,Canoga Park ALabama, and Compton Varrios on NK. We could take the example of the Avenues on a gangland episode and conclude every mexican gang is doing those kind of racist acts but that wouldn't be correct.They are some Chicanos who also have mistreated paisas and newly arrived mexican migrants . Some of these ese gangs literally extort small time local mexican businesses,

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » October 10th, 2010, 4:29 pm

You seem to deflect valid points that Hispanic(s and their) art as it is in it's current state, tattooing or otherwise, has evolved due to obvious outside influences......



LIKE? Asian gangs or whites influencing the art? Its an LA thing? But it was practiced by CHICANOS in Texas-Arizona-New Mexico-Nevada-Colorado. Very Similiar in many regards....The bodysuit I posted was designed by a fool from Texas but had been used here since the 70s. Now is their an artform with this popularity outside of the Southwest? Canada maybe/NEW YORK--youd figure/THE SOUTH ...blacks been getting locked up their since the 1700s youd figure if anyone theyd be able to come up with a whole style of tattooing /what about whites? Theres 50 states-thousands of citys-hundreds of millions of them...yet ONLY here do they develop a whole style and patterns---that would be Americana? I mean the other white hub of San Fransisco ( a city that has said to hold alot of sway for tattooing) ideas are simply plays on Ed Hardys throwback to ancient Japenese tattooing--nothing really American UNLESS...you consider the influences he brought after his trips to East LA and his buying an ELA tattoo parlor. Is their another regional form of tattooing? Surely the midwest would have one/or the NorthEastern states with their long mafioso history and history of gangsterism -street gangs dating to the 1800s....Their has got to be a form of tattooing somewhere in South America/Maybe Europe? Arabia? ...hmmm........All these places COPY American styles of tattooing be it the color designs developed by Ed Hardy and Company or the Street designs developed by the Southwest CHICANO. Fact is modern style tattooing was lost after Roman Catholism and Christianity called it a mortal sin. Its not AMERICAN -its an art of oppression --its an art brought by years of incarceration and it was an art limited solely to criminals ( chicano crimnals!) If whites wouldve developed their own patterns it wouldve taken off in New York and The South.....Nah-but it took off here really. And Los Angelos is THE ONLY--region ---where tattoos are distinguishable from anywhere else in the WORLD. It influences the world and only the art of the Japenese criminal is comparable. An art that also started under the exact same conditions---and art that developed a whole style of placements so that it could be hidden from view. We chicanos were bolder and would blast it big and bold and bright right across the stomache and upside the head. I dont see anyones point really ---and to say its "EVERYONES" when my people would get rounded up -harassed-stripped --and locked up for that ink--well now ?

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