No More Mafia?

[thewestside]

Time and again, they have shown a willingness to kill – to make money, to eliminate rivals, and to silence witnesses." - Eric Holder, U.S. Attorney General

OH YEAH? Like WHO? and like when?

When was the last time the mafia took out an informer? The only person I can think of off top would have to be Frank Hydell. Otherwise their have been dozens of turncoast who openly give interviews and make no beef about where they are at.

The mob doesn't go after rats any more. At least not after the fact. In this day and age, the risks of retaliating against a witness far outweigh the rewards. The damage is already done and it wouldn't really be a deterrent to new rats at this point. There were rats even back when the mob did hunt them down. The danger for informants is if they are discovered before they fully flip.

But that doesn't mean the mob doesn't kill anymore. Here's a partial list of mob killings over the past decade...

2000 - Rochester associate Anthony Vaccaro killed.
2001 - Chicago Outfit lieutenant Anthony "Tony the Hatch" Chiaramonti killed.
2001 - Detroit associate John "John John" Jarjosa Jr. killed.
2001 - Philadelphia associate Adam Finelli killed.
2001 - Bonanno associate Frank Santoro killed.
2002 - Philadelphia soldier Raymond "Long John" Martorano killed.
2003 - Philadelphia associate John "Johnny Gongs" Casasanto killed.
2003 - Genovese captain Adolfo "Big Al" Bruno killed.
2004 - Bonanno associate Rudolph "Rudy Pizzolo" killed.
2004 - Genovese associate Nicholas Cirillo missing (presumed murdered)
2005 - Genovese acting captain Lawrence "Larry" Ricci killed.
2006 - Chicago Outfit lieutenant Anthony "Little Tony" Zizzo disappeared (presumed murdered)
2007 - Genovese soldier Rudolph "Rudy Cueball" Izzi killed.
2007 - Lucchese soldier Frank Lagano killed.
2008 - Genovese associate William Marcucci killed.
2008 - Genovese robbery victim Louis Antonelli killed.
2009 - Bonanno soldier Anthony Seccifico killed.

Another thing-ONCE AGAIN. Just like in the family secrets case Old murders-dating back to when the mob had numbers and organizing are thrown in with new indictments to make everyone including the jury believe that the mob is as dangerous as ever. I am surprised their were enough numbers to get 38 made members arrested. Yes true operation old bridge was a failure and yes most of those charged got out quickly-and yes this case here is also going to turn out the same way except for a "few unfortunate souls who got caught up in their past behaviour-quote" Harry Aleman.

The recent indictments include ongoing criminal activity right up to the present. If it was just murders from years and years ago, they wouldn't have been able to fold all the charges into a RICO case. And typically, charges for murder don't come right after it happens. It often takes years to break a case or get a witness to tell where a body is. But as I demonstrated above, that doesn't mean the mob has stopped killing people. And of course you - as dumb as you are - would be surprised that 38 members (plus dozens more associates) could be in this one bust. You must not be aware there are about 700 members in New York, although I've pointed that fact out to you many times.

The Bonanos and Lucchese are finito. Their lack of charges in this indictment shows and says it loud and clear.

Really, dipshit?

Are you aware of the 2007/May 2010 bust in New Jersey of 28 Lucchese Family members and associates, including acting bosses Joseph “Big Joe” DiNapoli and Matthew Madonna and captains Ralph Perna and Nicodemo "Nicky Jr." Scarfo Jr., on charges of racketeering, running multimillion dollar sports betting operations, loansharking, extortion, money laundering, cocaine and marijuana trafficking, smuggling heroin and cell phones into prison with the Bloods street gang, weapons possession, money laundering, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://www.eog.com/news/full-article.aspx?id=33480

Are you aware of the February 2008 bust in Brooklyn of 8 Lucchese Family members and associates, including captain Domenico “Danny” Cutaia, on charges of racketeering, illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, marijuana trafficking, bank fraud, mail fraud, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://newyork.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pres ... 022808.htm

Are you aware of the August 2008 bust in Brooklyn of 7 Bonanno Family members and associates, including acting captains Gerald “Gerry” Chilli and John “Big John” Contello, on charges of racketeering, running a sports betting operation, loan sharking, trafficking in cocaine, marijuana, and prescription drugs, tax fraud, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://www.justice.gov/usao/nye/pr/2008/2008aug28.html

Are you aware of the May 2009 bust in Florida of 11 Bonanno Family members and associates on charges of racketeering, drug trafficking, interstate transportation of stolen property, money laundering, loansharking, running high-stakes poker games, fraud, forcing businesses to install mob-owned vending machines, murder, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://miami.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressr ... 052109.htm

Are you aware of the September 2009 busts in Manhattan and Brooklyn involving over 40 Lucchese Family members and associates, including acting boss Joseph DiNapoli, Matthew Madonna, and captain Anthony Croce, on charges of running multimillion sports betting operations, high-stakes card games, loansharking, extortion, bribery of New York Dept. of Buildings Inspectors on 19 construction projects, firearms trafficking, drug trafficking, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://manhattanda.org/whatsnew/press/2009-10-1.shtml http://www.ag.ny.gov/media_center/2009/ ... 1b_09.html

Are you aware of the November 2009 bust on Staten Island involving 22 Lucchese (and Gambino) members and associates on charges of running multimillion dollar sports betting operations, loansharking, bid-rigging involving a multimillion dollar contract with the New York City Sanitation Department, etc?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://www.ag.ny.gov/media_center/2009/ ... 8a_09.html

Are you aware of the February 2010/May 2010 bust in Brooklyn involving 11 Lucchese and Bonanno Family members and associates, including Lucchese captains Domenico "Danny" Cutaia, Joseph "Big Joe" Lubrano, acting captain Carlo Profeta, and Bonanno captain Anthony "Anthony From Elmont" Mannone, on charges of racketeering, loansharking, running a sports betting operation, extortion, robberies, etc.?
LOOK IT UP!!! -----> http://www.justice.gov/usao/nye/pr/2010/2010feb24.html



START DOING SOME RESEARCH, ASIDE FROM CHERRYPICKING WHATEVER SNIPPET OF AN ARTICLE YOU THINK HELPS YOUR ARGUMENT, OR STAY THE HELL OF THE BOARD

[mayugastank]

Ive done my research dumb fuck-it took a while and Ive reached a conclusion-the mob oustide of a few soldiers whove hung on is done. Chicago Chicago Chicago.....oh yea that family who youve exaggerated by 50%? even though (3) FBI estimates places them at 25-28 members? Oh yes a philly family--------------hum......could it be like Harry Aleman said? that many times the guys in teh mob grown up together and are friends and relatives and well just enjoy eachothers company? hwo about the Locasio fiasco.....Capo in the Gambino family living in Flo-rida. what about Tony Pep Trentacosta....runnig the mob from GEORGIA. Or that wiseguy from the Bonanaos..........residing in San Jose -California. You fucking dimwit.....I cherry pick nothing its you and Eric Holder.....attorney general , who cherry pick information to make things seem overblown and like a 1950s mob movie.get the fuck outta here.

keep listing -those Scarfo juniors and other hangers on as THE MOB. Fool. Lucchese-Bonano-finito.....its obvious by the disbandment of the task force and its obvious that this isnt 1920s Ellis Island with pizza grubbing mafioso hoping off the boat. You want to see Italian Immigration move to canada. You want to overhype a dyfunctional and half assed snitching crime group like the Bos as some sort of comeback kids....their done you halfwit fuck. This raid was a joke....some straight bullshit-made up and trivial. Dudes got charged with having a joker poker machine. Get the phug outta here this isnt the 1920s. Your liable to not find a one italian in all NYC who speaks teh language and doesnt reheat microwave lasagna. The mob was force up until teh 1990s because most those kids were born to first generation italians and they had a good grasp on their history....these white boys? this white trash? MAFIA? bunch of Jersey Shore guidos on roids who changed their names from Kyle Demonte .....Demitre.....or some other Italiano sounding throwback....there aint no stanking Italians left. Your a fucking douche just like Eric Holder who pumped up some half assed indictment like tehy just blew the lid off a big conspiracy. Fucking joke. Mafia my fucking ass.....let them hit some of these snitches and we will see a mafia.........let a thunderboll roll and Ill agree. Let a few bodies get dug up or some throwback to what the mafia used to be---get splashed around......they are charging dudes with beefs from the wars of teh early 1990s..........this is 2010-the last few dudes left from those times are getting pinched for some baloney .

[mrinteresting]

italians are the shit in the mafia world but i have to give it to the chinese triads cuz dey the top dogz

[thewestside]

Ive done my research dumb fu---it took a while and Ive reached a conclusion-the mob oustide of a few soldiers whove hung on is done. Chicago Chicago Chicago.....oh yea that family who youve exaggerated by 50%? even though (3) FBI estimates places them at 25-28 members? Oh yes a philly family--------------hum......could it be like Harry Aleman said? that many times the guys in teh mob grown up together and are friends and relatives and well just enjoy eachothers company? hwo about the Locasio fiasco.....Capo in the Gambino family living in Flo-rida. what about Tony Pep Trentacosta....runnig the mob from GEORGIA. Or that wiseguy from the Bonanaos..........residing in San Jose -California. You #%@&#%@ dimwit.....I cherry pick nothing its you and Eric Holder.....attorney general , who cherry pick information to make things seem overblown and like a 1950s mob movie.get the fu-- outta here.

keep listing -those Scarfo juniors and other hangers on as THE MOB. Fool. Lucchese-Bonano-finito.....its obvious by the disbandment of the task force and its obvious that this isnt 1920s Ellis Island with pizza grubbing mafioso hoping off the boat. You want to see Italian Immigration move to canada. You want to overhype a dyfunctional and half assed snitching crime group like the Bos as some sort of comeback kids....their done you halfwit fu--. This raid was a joke....some straight BS-made up and trivial. Dudes got charged with having a joker poker machine. Get the phug outta here this isnt the 1920s. Your liable to not find a one italian in all NYC who speaks teh language and doesnt reheat microwave lasagna. The mob was force up until teh 1990s because most those kids were born to first generation italians and they had a good grasp on their history....these white boys? this white trash? MAFIA? bunch of Jersey Shore guidos on roids who changed their names from Kyle Demonte .....Demitre.....or some other Italiano sounding throwback....there aint no stanking Italians left. Your a #%@&#%@ douche just like Eric Holder who pumped up some half assed indictment like tehy just blew the lid off a big conspiracy. #%@&#%@ joke. Mafia my #%@&#%@ ass.....let them hit some of these snitches and we will see a mafia.........let a thunderboll roll and Ill agree. Let a few bodies get dug up or some throwback to what the mafia used to be---get splashed around......they are charging dudes with beefs from the wars of teh early 1990s..........this is 2010-the last few dudes left from those times are getting pinched for some baloney .

Um...no...you haven't done your research. You read a few articles here and there, some of which are the ones I give you, and you cherrypick what you want. You don't look at all the evidence, much less all of it objectively. And it's because you want to win an argument more than you want to be factually correct. Plus, you're just lazy. How many times have I shown you to be wrong? Yet you just keep repeating the same tired BS. A perfect example above - the Bonanno taskforce was never disbanded. It was temporarily merged with the Colombos back in the 1990's. And what was the result of that? The Bonannos made a comeback and grew in size and strength. The FBI now admits that was a mistake. Or look how you bring up a joker poker machine, as if there was nothing else in that indictment or any of the others. That's cherrypicking, asshole. The charges in all these cases are long and varied and you just ignore all of them and talk about a video poker machine. Bottom line, it doesn't matter how many cases I show you. It doesn't matter what law enforcement says. You just keep holding onto this bogus claim of yours even though I'm pretty sure you know, yourself, that it isn't true.

So the only question is, why do you keep posting your BS? Who do you think you're fooling? I doubt there is anyone here or anywhere else that will believe you. Seriously, give it up, dip shit.

[Faciulina]

the bonanno's are full of zips only an idiot can think they are finished

[icegoodbarbPresident]

Westside is right mayugastank is a douche, There is no FBI or any Mob historians that would back up any of your claims. Chicago is classified as the second most powerful crime family in the US by the FBI so obivously they don't have 25 made members and also they aren't running just legitamate businesses and show me an article from a reputable source that says they haven't made anyone since Nick Calabrese in the early 1980s. You act like there is no new blood coming into the mob and they're all these old guys sitting around eating Dominoes. Yeh the mob is a shell of it's former self and is weaker but they still have young guys. And you say that Eric Holder sugarcoated the indictments he's a frickin attorney general well the hell would he want to do that and they're charging people with murders not poker machines. Heres some young guys

Bonanno
Anthony Calabrese-44
Vincent "Vinny T.V." Badalamenti-54
Anthony "Little Anthony" Pipitone-39
Jerome “Jerry” Asaro-54
Anthony "Tony Black" Furino-53
Anthony “Ace/T” Aiello/34
Ronald Giallanzo-37
Vincent Basciano Jr-30
Joseph Cammarano Jr-52

Gambino
Francesco Frank Cali-46
Angelo “Little Ange” Ruggiero Jr-39
Alphonse Truccio-34
Salvatore Loscasio-51
Vincent Corrao-45
Mario "Lanza" Cassarino-45
Louis “Bo” Filipelli-47
Andrew "Andy Campo" Campos-44
Vincenzo Frogiero-43

Genovese
Michael “Mickey” Ragusa-45
Ralph " Undertaker" Balsamo-40
Salvatore “Slick” Geraci-44
Emilio Fusco-43
John "Blue" Defroscia-50
Paul “Pauly Stripes” DiMarco-51

Lucchese
Joseph "Big Joe" Lubrano-40
Eugene Castelle-50
Jody Calabrese-48
Scott Gervasi-47
John Perna-34
Rocco vitulli-47
John Baudanza-40
Joseph "Little Joe" DiBenedetto-42
Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo Jr-46

Colombo
Michael Uvino-44
William “Billy” Russo-49
Daniel “Danny” Persico-49
Theodore “Teddy” Persico Jr-47
Anthony Stropoli-48
Craig Marino-41

[thewestside]

Chicago is classified as the second most powerful crime family in the US by the FBI so obivously they don't have 25 made members and also they aren't running just legitamate businesses and show me an article from a reputable source that says they haven't made anyone since Nick Calabrese in the early 1980s.

The Chicago Outfit being the second most powerful crime family in the U.S., if they ever were at all, is certainly an outdated misconception now. The Genovese are #1. The Gambinos #2. And, at this point, I'd put the other New York families and then the Outfit.

[mrinteresting]

Chicago is classified as the second most powerful crime family in the US by the FBI so obivously they don't have 25 made members and also they aren't running just legitamate businesses and show me an article from a reputable source that says they haven't made anyone since Nick Calabrese in the early 1980s.

The Chicago Outfit being the second most powerful crime family in the U.S., if they ever were at all, is certainly an outdated misconception now. The Genovese are #1. The Gambinos #2. And, at this point, I'd put the other New York families and then the Outfit.

have u herd of the rizzuto crime family in canada??

[icegoodbarbPresident]

The Rizzuto family broke off ties with Bonannos after Joseph Massino flipped and is now independent of the american mob, so most people would't include it when talking about the american mob by far the five families are the most powerful, also with the killings of Nicolo Rizzuto and Vito Rizzuto's son and many other killings of people in the Rizzuto organization it's basically a shell of it's former self and with the war in Montreal continuing its not that powerful anymore

[thewestside]

The Rizzuto family broke off ties with Bonannos after Joseph Massino flipped and is now independent of the american mob, so most people would't include it when talking about the american mob by far the five families are the most powerful, also with the killings of Nicolo Rizzuto and Vito Rizzuto's son and many other killings of people in the Rizzuto organization it's basically a shell of it's former self and with the war in Montreal continuing its not that powerful anymore

About the Rizzutos....

One school of thought was that they were only the Canadian-based faction of the Bonanno crime family. The other school of thought was that they were this self-standing, immensely powerful, international syndicate that was stronger than any American mob family. I always felt the truth landed somewhere in the middle. But I never thought they were the "Sixth Family" as many made them out to be.

[mayugastank]

Westside
Okay now..........first off icegood-misinterpreted what Ive said since you spin so much BS my way. The family secret trial CLEARLY note: CLEARLY stated that Nicky Breeze and his brother were no longer meeting with other members of the mob and or kicking up. It also stated that most members in Nicky Breezes crew were not made members and it also stated that Frank Calabrese son was not a made member ALTHOUGH his father very much wanted him to be, it also stated that he was not a member because they had stopped making members since the late 1980s. Buy the book! It also CLEARLY stated that Nicky Breeze testified he was one of the last members to be made and that he had no knowledge of anyone being made since late 1980s, however I will say that through the grapevine Nicky was told that some real close people had been given the go-ahead but he had never personally met them.........the scenario reads as such (1) Im lying (2) the author is lying (3) Frank Breeze is lying.

I am not lying.

Another thing my estimates on the numbers of chitown mafioso are from the FBI.Tehy have respectively named 25-28-30 members in their official estimates on teh strength of the chicago outift. Like your Colombo family chart you list guys who are retired-guys who live out of state -guys who are lcoked away for many years. The FBI estimates quotes " active chicago mafioso". I tend to believe this as Nicky Breeze testimony comes very similar and very close to what was said here.

Frank Calabrese was charged with some 13 murders and some of the recordings have him reminscing of what Chicagos outfit used to be like.....USED TO is the key word here.


So what do we know about the Chicago Outfit? Since their has only been 1 made guy -to ever flip -we'd have to go with his estimates of membership/activity and their lack of meeting. If you have a problem with the way Ive stated hearsay evidence Id have to say your evidence would be just as faulty!

[mayugastank]

Good and Westside

SHOW ME SOMETHING SAYING THE OUTFIT HASNT MADE ANY NEW MEMBERS SINCE THE 1980s.............

Crackdown just latest hit on mob
Friends of ours: Anthony Chiaramonti, Al Capone, James Marcello, Joey "The Clown" Lombardo, Frank Calabrese Sr., Nick Calabrese, Michael Spano Sr., Gus Alex, Lenny Patrick, Sam Carlisi, Rocco Infelice, Marco D'Amico, John DiFronzo
Friends of mine: William Hanhardt

Among the 14 alleged mob bosses and associates indicted last week by a federal grand jury were three "made" members who enjoy lofty status in the organized crime underworld.

Prosecutors said the indictments were historic for Chicago because never before had so many high-ranking bosses of La Cosa Nostra been taken down in a single criminal case. The mob, U.S. Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald said, had taken a hit. But the truth is the Outfit has been wounded for some time.

A series of successful federal prosecutions over the years have put many bosses behind bars and have forced mobsters and their associates into much lower profiles. "Over the last 20 years, it's been one blow after another," said Lee Flosi, a former FBI agent who supervised the organized crime task force in the early 1990s.

The mob has downsized from six street crews to four. The number of organized crime associates--individuals the crews need for muscle, loan sharking, debt collecting and sports betting--also has dwindled.

"Made" members, who are typically of Italian descent and have committed one murder on behalf of the mob, have become an endangered species.

The last known induction into the mob took place in 1984 at the Como Inn, an Italian restaurant in Chicago, although there may have been other induction ceremonies since, according to former organized crime investigators.

The FBI estimates that Chicago now only has 25 "made" members and another 75 organized crime associates. Federal authorities said that 15 years ago the mob had 50 "made" members and as many as 400 associates.

Mob violence has dropped off, as well.

The last known successful mob hit occurred in Nov. 20, 2001. That's when Anthony "Tony the Hatch" Chiaramonti, a top figure in the Outfit's South Side rackets, was gunned down in the vestibule of a west suburban chicken restaurant. The 67-year-old Chiaramonti's murder remains unsolved.

The hit, or rub-out, was used to command loyalty, to take out rivals or to silence witnesses. According to the Chicago Crime Commission, 1,111 gangland slayings have been committed since 1919.

The latest arrests of alleged mobsters generated widespread media interest and calls from overseas talk show hosts who recall the St. Valentine's Day massacre of 1929, which led to the end of Prohibition, made Al Capone a household name and solidified Chicago as the gangster capital of the world. But the Chicago Police Department's definition of organized crime has shifted during recent decades from the Outfit to street gangs like the Latin Kings and the Black Gangster Disciples that control drug sales in the city.

"When you look at who's a bigger threat to the public, it's clear," said Cmdr. Steve Caluris, who runs the Deployment Operations Center, which coordinates all of the department's intelligence gathering. "These aren't just punks hanging out on street corners. It's organized crime." Chicago police statistics show that 1,276 murders were tied to street gangs from 2000 through 2004.

The 41-page racketeering indictment provided fresh insights into the mob's enterprise of illegal gambling, loan sharking and murder. Prosecutors charged that La Cosa Nostra bosses and "made" members were responsible for 18 gangland slayings from 1970 through 1986.

While the Outfit is still active in embezzling from union pension and benefit funds, illegal sports bookmaking, video poker machines and occasional violence, its heyday of influence passed long before Monday's indictments of James Marcello, the reputed boss of the mob; fugitive Joseph "the Clown" Lombardo; and 12 others.

Marcello, Frank Calabrese Sr. and Nicholas Calabrese were the three "made" mob members indicted, according to court records.

"Once `made,' the individual was accorded greater status and respect in the enterprise," the indictment said. "An individual who was `made' or who committed a murder on behalf of the Outfit was obligated to the enterprise for life to perform criminal acts on behalf of the enterprise when called upon."

Prosecutors had begun weakening the Chicago Outfit with a series of successes, though few of the convictions have involved mob murders.

Among the more recent major cases have been that of William Hanhardt, a former Chicago police deputy superintendent, for running a mob-connected jewelry theft ring and reputed Cicero mob boss Michael Spano Sr. for looting $12 million from town coffers.

In the 1990s, convictions included mob leaders Gus Alex, chief political fixer for decades; Lenny Patrick, a gangster for 50 years who became the highest-ranking mobster to turn government informant; Sam Carlisi, former head of the mob's day-to-day operations; Ernest "Rocco" Infelice, convicted of murdering a bookmaker who refused demands to pay "street tax"; and Marco D'Amico, a top gambling boss.

With each aging mobster who dies or goes to prison, the Outfit has not been fully successful in recruiting leadership. Still, law enforcement officials and mob watchers caution that Monday's arrests do not mean the Chicago La Cosa Nostra is near death. La Cosa Nostra--"this thing of ours" or "our thing"--is used to refer to the American mafia.

The mob controls most of the illegal sports betting in the Chicago area, remains stubbornly entrenched in the Teamsters Union and remains disturbingly effective at collecting "street taxes" as a cost to operate businesses such as strip clubs.

While federal authorities, took down alleged members and associates from the Grand Avenue, the 26th Street and Melrose Park crews, the Elmwood Park street crew was untouched. That crew, perhaps the most powerful of the four mob crews in the Chicago area, reputedly is led by John "No Nose" DiFronzo. And even though they are imprisoned, mob bosses have remained adept at running their enterprise from their cells. "They still continue illegal activities through conversations with relatives and associates. It's not going to put them out of business," said James Wagner, a 30-year FBI veteran who retired in 2000.

Court records show that Frank Calabrese Sr., a leader with the mob's 26th Street crew, did just that. Two retired Chicago police officers allegedly delivered messages between Calabrese and mobsters on the outside, including messages to determine whether Calabrese's younger brother, Nicholas, had become an mob turncoat and was cooperating with government. Frank Calabrese Sr. was right to worry; his brother had become an informant, federal authorities said.

The indictment provided sketchy data about a sports bookmaking operation that allegedly was run between 1992 and 2001 by Frank Calabrese Sr. and Nicholas Ferriola. The indictments stated that it operated in northern Illinois and involved five or more people.

Thomas Kirkpatrick, president of the Chicago Crime Commission, said illegal gambling is the mother's milk of the mob.

Kirkpatrick said he had seen one estimate from several years ago that about $100 million was bet with the Chicago mob on the NFL's Super Bowl. "That's where the money is for the mob," Kirkpatrick said. "No one else has the ability to move the money, to cover the bets, to keep the records and to collect debts. That takes an organization."

And, the chairman of the Illinois Gaming Board last week raised concerns that the current board's low staffing of investigators could let organized crime sneak into the state's nine operating riverboat casinos. Gaming officials fear that mob figures would work the casinos in search of desperate gamblers and offer them "juice loans," lending money at rates that can reach 520 percent a year.

The Chicago mob allegedly has its tentacles deep into at least six Teamsters Union locals, according to a report prepared last year by the union's anti-corruption investigators. They turned up allegations of mob influence, kickback schemes and the secret shifting of union jobs to low-wage, non-union companies.

A copy of the report had been provided to the Justice Department after the investigators alleged that union leaders acting at the direction of the Chicago mob had blocked their probe into alleged wrongdoing. "The Chicago area, more than anywhere else where Teamster entities are concentrated, continues to furnish the conditions that historically have made the union vulnerable to organized crime infiltration and systemic corruption: an organized crime family that still has considerable strength, a corrupt business and political environment and resistance to anti-racketeering reform efforts by key Teamster leaders," the report said.

In fact, the FBI's organized crime unit already is investigating some of the allegations in the report.

Agents are looking into whether hundreds of thousands of dollars were siphoned from a Teamsters benefit plan that provides dental care to Chicago-area undertakers and valets, according to sources. "The mob is the same as it always has been," said FBI spokesman Ross Rice, "just on a smaller scale."

Thanks to Todd Lighty and Matt O'Connor

http://www.thechicagosyndicate.com/2005 ... n-mob.html

[mayugastank]

From article above.............

The last known induction into the mob took place in 1984 at the Como Inn, an Italian restaurant in Chicago, although there may have been other induction ceremonies since, according to former organized crime investigators.


Franky Breeze described this as well............he also stated that a few guys here and their were made BUT -that the number was LOW and that he did not personally know them. The guys who did get made were extremely close to people/relatives and such.

[thewestside]

Westside
Okay now..........first off icegood-misinterpreted what Ive said since you spin so much BS my way. The family secret trial CLEARLY note: CLEARLY stated that Nicky Breeze and his brother were no longer meeting with other members of the mob and or kicking up. It also stated that most members in Nicky Breezes crew were not made members and it also stated that Frank Calabrese son was not a made member ALTHOUGH his father very much wanted him to be, it also stated that he was not a member because they had stopped making members since the late 1980s. Buy the book! It also CLEARLY stated that Nicky Breeze testified he was one of the last members to be made and that he had no knowledge of anyone being made since late 1980s, however I will say that through the grapevine Nicky was told that some real close people had been given the go-ahead but he had never personally met them.........the scenario reads as such (1) Im lying (2) the author is lying (3) Frank Breeze is lying.

I am not lying.

Another thing my estimates on the numbers of chitown mafioso are from the FBI.Tehy have respectively named 25-28-30 members in their official estimates on teh strength of the chicago outift. Like your Colombo family chart you list guys who are retired-guys who live out of state -guys who are lcoked away for many years. The FBI estimates quotes " active chicago mafioso". I tend to believe this as Nicky Breeze testimony comes very similar and very close to what was said here.

Frank Calabrese was charged with some 13 murders and some of the recordings have him reminscing of what Chicagos outfit used to be like.....USED TO is the key word here.


So what do we know about the Chicago Outfit? Since their has only been 1 made guy -to ever flip -we'd have to go with his estimates of membership/activity and their lack of meeting. If you have a problem with the way Ive stated hearsay evidence Id have to say your evidence would be just as faulty!

I never said you were lying. I said that you're likely mistaken, as you often are, because you cherrypick your evidence. Instead of looking at all the evidence objectively and then coming to a conclusion, you form an opinion and then work backwards, selecting what you will and won't believe based on your foregone conclusion.

This is a perfect example. You hold tight to this one source which claims the Outfit hasn't made any new members since the 1980's. I've read both books on the Family Secrets case and I don't ever recall Nick Calabrese saying they hadn't made any members since then. But as I've pointed out before, notice how you're quick to believe that but you ignore the fact that that same source - Nick Calabrese - reportedly identified 60 Outfit members. With one thing he has credibility with you but the other he doesn't. And it's all based on what you feel helps your argument. Which is why you also selectively pick the lower end FBI estimates while ignoring the higher end ones. All of which you got from me by the way. Furthermore, you dwell on Frank Calabrese's thoughts on the Outfit of years ago but you don't take the ongoing mob cases in Chicago over the past decade into account, which clearly show there is likely more than a couple dozen made guys remaining there.

In other words, you have an agenda, which stops you from approaching all this honestly. Or at least objectively. And that's why you have no credibility.

From article above.............

The last known induction into the mob took place in 1984 at the Como Inn, an Italian restaurant in Chicago, although there may have been other induction ceremonies since, according to former organized crime investigators.


Franky Breeze described this as well............he also stated that a few guys here and their were made BUT -that the number was LOW and that he did not personally know them. The guys who did get made were extremely close to people/relatives and such.

Key words there: "The last known mob induction....."

I have no doubt the times the Outfit conducts making ceremonies is rare and they are very selective about who they let in. I've already given you a source where he identified 60 members. And the fact that the average FBI estimate is around 50 members, combined with the ongoing mob activity in Chicago, leads an objective observer to believe it's around that much. Not half of that, which you want to believe. I've already pointed out that what's left of the mob in Detroit has a couple dozen members left and there isn't half the mob activity there as there is in Chicago.

[Faciulina]

chicago has sure more than 60 members, it has about 100 it's bigger than decavalcante's or patriarca family

[mayugastank]

Westside~

I never said you were lying. I said that you're likely mistaken, as you often are, because you cherrypick your evidence. Instead of looking at all the evidence objectively and then coming to a conclusion, you form an opinion and then work backwards, selecting what you will and won't believe based on your foregone conclusion.

Bull. I cherry pick NOTHING-I form an opinion only AFTER having read numerous articles/comments/testimony and books. My opinion is well stated here so no need to go into what I believe. I merely try to show why I believe as such. I have read your links on the chicago underworld and I must say that they are very circumstantial --you make connections to the mob by the flimsiest evidence. Nicky Breeze did so give testimony that he was one of the last few made members of Chitowns Outift. Its been glossed over tremendously-because the papers/press and FBI would like us to believe they are still active. Nicky specifically stated that he was one of teh last members to be made that he knew about. The 60 names who youve mentioned are RETIRED/DEAD/IN PRISON and INACTIVE members....just like your Colombo chart that good~ drew suspiscion on. You listed at least a dozen members in that chart that Good~ listed as inactive/retired/out of the life. Their is a big difference between active and inactive members. Its critical. The FBI estimates CLEARLY list ACTIVE MEMBERS. Period.

[Faciulina]

mayugastank are you saying that the decavalcantes are stronger than chicago outfit? you're a total moron

[thewestside]

chicago has sure more than 60 members, it has about 100 it's bigger than decavalcante's or patriarca family

Not likely. Even back in 1997 the Chicago Crime Commission estimated it had around 70 members. Today the average estimate is around 50 members. I could see a high of 60 but no more. While I do consider it stronger, the modern-day Chicago Outfit is more comparable in size and activity to families in New England, New Jersey, and Philadelphia than many think.

Of the remaining viable families, it basically breaks down like this....

- 2 large families - Genovese, Gambino - each with about 200 members

- 3 medium sized families - Lucchese, Colombo, Bonanno, - each with about 100 members

- 4 small families - Chicago, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia - each with about 50 members

[thewestside]

Bull. I cherry pick NOTHING-I form an opinion only AFTER having read numerous articles/comments/testimony and books. My opinion is well stated here so no need to go into what I believe. I merely try to show why I believe as such. I have read your links on the chicago underworld and I must say that they are very circumstantial --you make connections to the mob by the flimsiest evidence. Nicky Breeze did so give testimony that he was one of the last few made members of Chitowns Outift. Its been glossed over tremendously-because the papers/press and FBI would like us to believe they are still active. Nicky specifically stated that he was one of teh last members to be made that he knew about. The 60 names who youve mentioned are RETIRED/DEAD/IN PRISON and INACTIVE members....just like your Colombo chart that good~ drew suspiscion on. You listed at least a dozen members in that chart that Good~ listed as inactive/retired/out of the life. Their is a big difference between active and inactive members. Its critical. The FBI estimates CLEARLY list ACTIVE MEMBERS. Period.

First, if you did any sort of thorough research, I wouldn't have to correct you so often. But time and time again you have made glaring mistakes and posted things that were just flat out wrong.

Second, as I've said repeatedly, I go by total members - active, inactive, in prison. It does little good to try and go with only active members on the street because that number for a family is constantly in flux. And yes, the 60 figure Calabrese gave was total Outfit membership - active, inactive, in prison. But not dead.

Third, the FBI does the same thing. Generally they will cite total membership. I can give you examples if you like. Sometimes, within certain articles, a more specific estimate as to current active members on the street will be mentioned but that's more rare.

It's obvious you are just trying to focus on active members alone because you feel the smaller figures help your argument. Even though, as I said, those figures are changing constantly.

[Faciulina]

Of the remaining viable families, it basically breaks down like this....

- 2 large families - Genovese, Gambino - each with about 200 members

- 3 medium sized families - Lucchese, Colombo, Bonanno, - each with about 100 members

- 4 small families - Chicago, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia - each with about 50 members

detroit and buffalo have about 40 members, cleveland, rochester, kansas city, tampa, los angeles and milwaukee have 15-30 members

[thewestside]

detroit and buffalo have about 40 members, cleveland, rochester, kansas city, tampa, los angeles and milwaukee have 15-30 members

We've been over this. Regardless of some unsubstantiated charts floating around on the net, 15 years ago the Detroit family had no more than 30 members at most. Considering the ongoing attrition, as well as relative lack of mob activity there, it's most likely less now. Probably around 25 at this point. Same for Buffalo.

Cleveland, Rochester, Kansas City, Tampa, and Los Angeles each have about 10 members left. Maybe 12-15 in some cases. But that's it. In Milwaukee there is only a few, if any remaining. You need to quit inflating these numbers.

It seems like I'm either arguing with a guy like mayugastank, who goes to far one way, or you who goes to far the other way.

[Faciulina]

We've been over this. Regardless of some unsubstantiated charts floating around on the net, 15 years ago the Detroit family had no more than 30 members at most. Considering the ongoing attrition, as well as relative lack of mob activity there, it's most likely less now. Probably around 25 at this point. Same for Buffalo.

Cleveland, Rochester, Kansas City, Tampa, and Los Angeles each have about 10 members left. Maybe 12-15 in some cases. But that's it. In Milwaukee there is only a few, if any remaining. You need to quit inflating these numbers.

detroit has 40 member or more, the suburbs are full of italians and they did new members for sure in the latest years, the same buffalo who controls hamilton that is litterally full of italians, there is not any lack in those areas
the others families did sure new members in the years especially cleveland and rochester

[thewestside]

detroit has 40 member or more, the suburbs are full of italians and they did new members for sure in the latest years, the same buffalo who controls hamilton that is litterally full of italians, there is not any lack in those areas
the others families did sure new members in the years especially cleveland and rochester

First, you don't know "for sure" when the last time Detroit made any new guys. And even if they did, one could ask if it was as many as have died over the last 15 years since the family's total membership was put at 30 tops. At most they could remain steady but it's not likely they have actually grown in size since then. In fact, more likely that they've declined more in numbers. Yes, there are still members there and there is still some semblance of an organization I suppose. There is relatively little mob activity there to warrant going with higher estimates. Really only one semi-large gambling bust over the past decade. Even less discernible activity in Buffalo.

BUt I suppose there is nothing I or anyone else can say that's going to convince you Detroit doesn't have 40 members. The bigger the number, the more likely you're to go with it. Just like the smaller the number for Chicago, the more likely mayugastank is going to go with it.

[Pauliewalnuts]

Hey, Westside. You certainly seem to have a lot of info about the mob. I'm new here, and I would appreciate if you take the time to answer some questions for me.

1) Do you know anything about the current status of Aniello Migliore? Does he live in the Bronx, and is that the current location of the administration of the family?

2) There seems to be some very accurate family charts on this forum, but can you supplement with some info about the current approximate number of associates for each family in New York?

3) Despite the claims of wikipedia, do you know if the Van Westerhout Cittadini Molesi Social Club in Brooklyn is a Genovese hangout to this day?


Thank you

[thewestside]

1) Do you know anything about the current status of Aniello Migliore? Does he live in the Bronx, and is that the current location of the administration of the family?

Migliore was on the 3 man ruling panel of the Lucchese family, along with Joseph DiNapoli and Matthew Madonna, before the latter two were arrested in 2007 and indicted last year. Migliore is based in the Bronx. But the family's administration isn't necessarily based in on particular area. Steven Crea, the underboss, is also a Bronx guy. But Joe Caridi, the consigliere, is based in Long Island, I believe.

2) There seems to be some very accurate family charts on this forum, but can you supplement with some info about the current approximate number of associates for each family in New York?

I really don't put a lot of stock in associate estimates. It's not like estimating members, where a guy is either made or he isn't. Definitions of what constitutes an associate can vary widely and so do the estimates. Often times you will see the lazy man's estimate of simply 10 associates for every member. But I've also seen more conservative estimates ranging from 3-5 associates per member.

3) Despite the claims of wikipedia, do you know if the Van Westerhout Cittadini Molesi Social Club in Brooklyn is a Genovese hangout to this day?

I don't know about that club in particular. It's right in that same area of Brooklyn (Carroll Gardens) where the Gallo/Illiano crew of the Genovese family is based.

[Pauliewalnuts]

Thank you for answering. Here are a couple more;)

1) Let's say some street gang with huge numbers decide they wanna take on one of the families, or all. What would prevent them from succeeding? My main point is that it looks like most of the guys on the charts are old. Could they seriously put up a good fight? ( Sorry if this is a common answered question from your side)

2) Do you know the current status of Liborio Bellomo? And is Venero Mangano still underboss of the Genovese, despite his health problems and age?

3) Aniello Migliore seems like a very smart and low key guy. Do you know why he has avoided prosecution and the other members of the ruling panel haven't?

4) Are social clubs still in active use by the mob, or are restaurants and bars more common places to conduct business nowadays?

Thank you very much:)

[mayugastank]

PAULIE"
Let's say some street gang with huge numbers decide they wanna take on one of the families, or all. What would prevent them from succeeding? My main point is that it looks like most of the guys on the charts are old. Could they seriously put up a good fight? ( Sorry if this is a common answered question from your side)



Never happen........their arent even street gangs in New York. Not even close to the level of street gangs in Los Angelos-where whole communitys/blocks/strips and aparment complexes are controlled by them. The 18th street gang owned condominiuns all throughout Hollywood blvd. where they would cook meth/collect taxes from hookers/and run the crack trade. New York has no gangs on that level. New yorks biggest gangs are California imitations! Bloods and Crip wannabees. Now the way gangs do battle in Los Angelos is by riding into a rivals hood looking for someone dressed in gangter fashion which out here consists of short hair/white T shirts/tattoos/chucks-converse, and blowing the guy dressed like this in a known gang hangout away. Italians dont have any neigborhoods they control like this and any gang who even tried whouldnt know where to begin. The mafia doesnt advertise their membership by wearing jackets/gang signs/tattoos and takeovers of neighborhoods.

[Faciulina]

Let's say some street gang with huge numbers decide they wanna take on one of the families, or all. What would prevent them from succeeding? My main point is that it looks like most of the guys on the charts are old. Could they seriously put up a good fight? ( Sorry if this is a common answered question from your side)

no street gangs could even think about a similar thing... do you really think a bunch of 15-20 at most 18 years old punk could take one a crime family with let's say 2.000 between members and associates like the gambino's, for example? it's laughable, just laughable
street gangs are located in a few blocks, the mafia family are present all across the 5 districts

[RDRIGN]

Let's say some street gang with huge numbers decide they wanna take on one of the families, or all. What would prevent them from succeeding? My main point is that it looks like most of the guys on the charts are old. Could they seriously put up a good fight? ( Sorry if this is a common answered question from your side)

no street gangs could even think about a similar thing... do you really think a bunch of 15-20 at most 18 years old punk could take one a crime family with let's say 2.000 between members and associates like the gambino's, for example? it's laughable, just laughable
street gangs are located in a few blocks, the mafia family are present all across the 5 districts

You seem to brush street gangs with the same paint, here in the United States we have very violent street gangs compared to Europe's street gangs that aren't on the same level as U.S street gangs. The people running those street gangs aren't 18 year olds but are grown men that use young adults to do the dirty work like the Italian-American mafias. Not all gangs are small some are pretty large like Chicago's GDs for example or MS13. Street gangs kill a lot of people in the U.S every year, compared to Europe where gangs aren't much of an issue like in the United States. I don't think the Mafia wants the heat the street gangs will bring to them if they somehow got in a war and in jail the Mafia has no chance unless they go into protected custody, it's just not worth it. Wasn't there a mini war going between the 67 Crips and the Rizzuto family months ago???

[Faciulina]

You seem to brush street gangs with the same paint, here in the United States we have very violent street gangs compared to Europe's street gangs that aren't on the same level as U.S street gangs. The people running those street gangs aren't 18 year olds but are grown men that use young adults to do the dirty work like the Italian-American mafias. Not all gangs are small some are pretty large like Chicago's GDs for example or MS13. Street gangs kill a lot of people in the U.S every year, compared to Europe where gangs aren't much of an issue like in the United States. I don't think the Mafia wants the heat the street gangs will bring to them if they somehow got in a war and in jail the Mafia has no chance unless they go into protected custody, it's just not worth it. Wasn't there a mini war going between the 67 Crips and the Rizzuto family months ago???

how many members could have a single street gangs? honestly, not more than 20 in my opinion... bloods crips ms-13 or latin kings have small groups in some blocks of a few city but they are not an unique organization they are disorganized and small... in new york and eastern coast there is not any significant street gangs nor in prison nor outside, in europe the street gangs are a total joke
the war in montreal is still a mystery nobody knows exactly what's going on there... it's sure an internal war anyway

[mayugastank]

Mafia =planned assassinations,targeted killings, millions of dollars in income.

streetgangs=young adult teens, doing something thats a fad and leaving it by the time their 25 at most!Outside of Los Angelos their arent very many street gangs at all. Latin Kings are defunct on the East Coast and only exist because the mexicans in Chicago filled their ranks.

The mafia is low in numbers now and hasnt done a targeted killing of an informer in many years. I consider the mafia hopeless. Its just nto in White people of Americas character to be gangsters anymore and the only reason any white gangsters exist is because of the Italians in NYC who have hundreds of years of history. Otherwise gangs in America would belong to Mexican predominanently and blacks.

[thewestside]

1) Let's say some street gang with huge numbers decide they wanna take on one of the families, or all. What would prevent them from succeeding? My main point is that it looks like most of the guys on the charts are old. Could they seriously put up a good fight? ( Sorry if this is a common answered question from your side)

As has been said, there would never be a war between the Mafia and street gangs or with other organized crime groups. That stuff is out of the movies and doesn't reflect real life, even though the press loves to play up potential conflicts when they can. The Mafia often works with other groups for mutual profit. The average age for Mafia members in New York, and basically everywhere else, is mid 60's to mid 70's. There are plenty of younger members, relatively speaking, in their 30's and 40's but one should keep in mind that guys don't get made into the mob until later on anyway. And many would be surprised at how capable a lot of these older guys are at being able to do "work," i.e. carry out hits.

2) Do you know the current status of Liborio Bellomo? And is Venero Mangano still underboss of the Genovese, despite his health problems and age?

Bellomo has been out of prison for a while now. He was one of a few names thrown around as a possible successor to become boss of the family. Most of the interim leaders in recent years have come from his crew. He's likely still at least a captain but appears to be laying low for now. Mangano is still underboss as far as anyone knows, though it may be more in name only at this point. The family is being run by several senior leaders and so it's not really a matter of the traditional administration anymore. In other words, there seems to have been no desire to install a new official boss since Gigante died in 2005. And Mangano remains the underboss and Ida the consigliere (despite being in prison for life) because there is no desire to officially replace them. Hence somebody being named acting boss for a time or several people running things on a panel.

3) Aniello Migliore seems like a very smart and low key guy. Do you know why he has avoided prosecution and the other members of the ruling panel haven't?

Is is certainly low key. And supposedly quite wealthy. I guess the obvious answer to why he wasn't indicted along with DiNapoli and Madonna was there wasn't enough evidence on him specifically. I know there was more direct evidence with the other two regarding the Jersey case, especially DiNapoli. But that doesn't mean Migliore is out of the woods. Once the feds have identified someone as one of the top leaders, they usually remain on the radar.

4) Are social clubs still in active use by the mob, or are restaurants and bars more common places to conduct business nowadays?

Generally speaking, the mob still uses all of them though not quite as openly as they once did. They are more surveillance conscious now but will always be creatures of habit to some extent.