Blacks vs Brown LA Times Article

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
Post Reply
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 249
Joined: February 14th, 2004, 8:19 am
Country: United States
If in the United States: Texas
What city do you live in now?: Mission TX
Location: Rio Grande Valley - 956

Blacks vs Brown LA Times Article

Unread post by chupon106 » March 2nd, 2007, 4:29 pm

Are Black-vs.-Brown Racial Tensions Driving Homicide in L.A.?

No. A few high-profile cases, including the suspected racially motivated killing of 15-year-old Cheryl Green in LAPD's Harbor Division, have fueled speculation of rising racial conflict in L.A. But among detectives and police officers who deal daily with homicides, the prevailing view is that the race problem--for now, anyway--remains marginal. "I don't think it's there," says Watts homicide Det. Chris Barling. Det. John Radtke, a South-Central homicide investigator, agrees. "We don't see it happening," he says. Statistics back them up.

Take the four most violent Los Angeles police precincts--Newton, 77th Street, Southwest and Southeast.

These racially mixed divisions cover South-Central Los Angeles and surrounding areas and consistently rank highest in homicides among the 19 LAPD precincts. Last year they accounted for nearly half of all the murders in the city.

But out of a total of 236 homicides in these four divisions last year, just 22 involved Latinos killing blacks, or blacks killing Latinos.

The vast majority--nearly 90%--involved suspects and victims of the same race. In a few other cases, the suspects are unknown, and could represent disparate races. But even in those--a mix of stray-bullet, gang- and narcotic-related killings--race is not believed to be a motive.

Detectives puzzled by racial homogeneity

In areas patrolled by the L.A. County Sheriff's Department, too, the pattern of killings on the street is “almost the opposite” of the picture lately highlighted in the media, sheriff's Cmdr. Pete Amico says.

The tilt is so far the other way that some homicide investigators say what actually perplexes them is how little racial crossover there is in killings.

Same-race murder predominates even where blacks and Latinos mix the most. In LAPD’s Southeast Division in Watts, for example, the population is at least 56% Latino and 40% black, according to U.S. Census numbers. But of 70 homicides reported there last year, only one was confirmed as black-on-Latino. No Latino-on-black killings occurred at all.

To be sure, tension between blacks and Latinos does exist in L.A., and a few murders result. For example, a string of racially motivated gang killings in Highland Park in the late 1990s went to trial in federal court last year.

And detectives think the December killing by Latino gang members of Cheryl Green, who was black, was as purely race-driven as a crime can get. (Left, her mother holds her picture; Annie Wells/LAT). The subsequent killing of a witness in that case, and an unrelated racial beating case in Long Beach, has further inflamed public concern about racial violence.

But even in LAPD’s Harbor Division, where Green was killed, racial murder is an aberration.

Of the 20 homicides in the Harbor City-area precinct last year, only one other is confirmed to have involved Latino suspects and a black victim. That case had to do with a drug deal, not race, said Det. Jim Perkins, supervisor of Harbor's homicide squad.

In two other cases the suspects are unknown and may be of different races. But in general, Perkins said, Harbor-area killings involve Latino gangs fighting other Latino gangs over territory.

Where the trend is going is hard to gauge. Law enforcement officials throughout the county describe a fairly stable mix of Latino-vs.-Latino and black-vs.-black homicides over the years, punctuated by a few scattered skirmishes between gangs of different races, especially in border areas.

The sheriff’s Firestone area had one such flare-up two years ago. The dispute, purportedly over a drug deal, became so violent and so racially charged that black gangs began hunting Latinos indiscriminately and vice versa, said Sheriff’s Lt. Joe Hartshorne. At least two noncombatants--an older man and a fruit vendor--were killed simply because of race, he said.

More common, though, are black-vs.-Latino gang wars over traditional gang issues--such as territory or revenge, said Det. Kelle Baitx, of LAPD’s Newton Division. “It’s on gang lines. It’s territory, not a race thing,” he said.

Cross-racial homicide motives

Sometimes, black/Latino gang fights suggest as much about racial integration as they do about hostility.

Perkins, the Harbor detective, recalled two such conflicts in his division in recent years:

In one, a black and Latino gang had long agreed to share their drug territory, but a fight broke out over which gang could sell during the day and which at night. Retaliatory shootings played out for months.

In another, a local Latino gang that had welcomed black members was ordered by Mexican gang higher-ups to kick them out, and two people were killed, Perkins said.

Elsewhere, the smattering of black-vs.-Latino killings usually involve motives identical to those driving same-race killings.

In 77th Street Division, for example, a traditionally black Crip gang had welcomed a Latino into their midst, said Radtke, the 77th Street detective. The Latino Crip was later killed as the result of in-house gang argument.

In Newton Division, a black man killed a Latino neighbor in a dispute over loud music, and a Latino man killed a black acquaintance who had criticized his parenting style. There also have been recent black/Latino killings arising from narcotics deals, robberies, parties, insults and fights over women--all garden-variety motives common to same-race murders.

The fact that homicide seldom crosses racial lines here is not unique to L.A. Nationally, whites mostly kill whites, blacks mostly kill blacks, etc. It's been that way for a long time, both here and in the rest of the nation. “When you look at the trends, you don’t see tremendous change,” said Marianne Zawitz, statistician with the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Concern is warranted

Still, there’s reason for concern, Radtke says.

Racial strife is rampant in prisons, he says, and drug-market competition between Latino gangs and black gangs could someday come to a head.

Black gangs are shrinking as Latino ones grow, he says, and while a balance of power may be keeping the status quo in place for now, authorities should keep watch. “I’m actually glad there has been such a response to the Harbor case,” Radtke says. Gangs that provoke racial conflict “should have the full force of the government on them.”

But other investigators are frustrated by what they call over-hyped stories of rising violence between races. “Crime here is race on race,” says Barling, the Watts detective. “The politicians always miss it.”

Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 936
Joined: February 2nd, 2004, 7:38 pm

Unread post by George » March 10th, 2007, 11:22 am

I still think that if society is not careful, L.A would eventually have an increase in the Black/Brown war, etc.

If left unchecked, it will be like a mini civil war in the streets of Los Angeles!

User avatar
Posts: 9063
Joined: May 12th, 2003, 7:56 pm
Country: United States
If in the United States: California
What city do you live in now?: Los Angeles
Location: Los Angeles

Are Black vs. Brown race tensions driving homicide?

Unread post by alexalonso » May 27th, 2008, 4:37 pm

I guess many have not read this article by Jill Leovy ... rotes.html

User avatar
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1064
Joined: January 20th, 2004, 1:19 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Windsor Hills section)

Unread post by TheReal » May 28th, 2008, 6:21 am

George wrote:I still think that if society is not careful, L.A would eventually have an increase in the Black/Brown war, etc.

If left unchecked, it will be like a mini civil war in the streets of Los Angeles!
This is what will potentially happen in the future, and the article somewhat implies this. The fact of the matter is, with all of the talk about black folks feeling the pinch from latinos creeping into their "territory", folks must honestly deal with latino racism as well, as it relates to black folks.

Many latinos, especially those of the mestizo variety, feel that black folks don't deserve anything they do have, even if they've earned it with their sweat, blood and tears, and that anything we do receive from this society, based on our severe come from behind sojourn in this country, should've gone to them, first and foremost, because 1) they are closer to white, than black folks, therefore higher on the racial totem pole; 2) black folks are inferior, and that anything black folks, or those folks of african descent, do achieve, is only achieved because of white folks "feeling sorry" for them, or "giving" them something they have not rightfully earned, even if the evidence is extremely to the contrary; and 3) if you're a latino of the mestizo, then the philosophy concerning black folks, is that black folks don't deserve to be in this country, asking for anything, chilling in a park, getting an education, getting media time, or any consideration, or largesse, seeing as how black folks really don't belong on this land, whatsoever, for their african blood disqualifies them.

Truth be told, this is what primarily fuels the rage of latinos of the mestizo variety against black folks. Oh sure, they may say that black folks obnoxious behavior, and trying to be badasses, is what's fueling the resentment mexicans have towards black folks. They may even appeal to this supposed past where black folks committed "pogroms" against the mexican population back in the day, which historical evidence suggests to be patently false. But all of these excuses, which may contain a modicum of truth, is essentially smokescreens to hide the insidious reasons concerning latinos of the mestizo variety's hatred against black folks, which is what I posted in the above.

Again, until those issues are honestly dealt with as well, and not just black folks xenophobia, and bad attitudes, you will have this situation grow exponentially worse.

User avatar
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1384
Joined: June 22nd, 2008, 8:28 pm
What city do you live in now?: Riverside

Re: Blacks vs Brown LA Times Article

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 6th, 2008, 3:46 am

I have a feeling that sooner or later thier is going to be a huge war between Latinos and Blacks and it's going to be chaotic, God forbid it never happens

Post Reply

Return to “Race and Ethnicity, Racial Relations & Racism”