The New ALBANIAN MAFIA

In this section discuss Albania [Shqipërisë], Bulgaria [България], Croatia, Macedonia [Македонија, Makedonija] and Russia [Федерация, Rossiyskaya] including any other place on the Eastern European continent.

Postby JohnnyRed » March 26th, 2008, 5:06 pm

TeeKay wrote:What are we talking here? people of italian decent?

3.4million albanians in its own country, i dont even think theres close to even 11million worldwide.

Italians are at a rough estimate of 110 million worldwide,those that claim italian or partially italian heritage.

Brazil having the biggest population.



teekay your a fuckin moron, why are you arguing about population figures, the fact is that every top named group that westside mentioned is 10 times larger than the albanians in population except colombians. and yet we still manage to be one of the most powerful and in europe, the MOST powerful, stronger than ndrangheta, or the red mafija or w.e other gay names those clowns made for themselves.
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Postby truestar » March 26th, 2008, 5:49 pm

the population that johny is sayin is rite but that doesnt even really matter lol i dont know whos the strongest i think the nghardta is the strongest and than the albanian mob... but the nghardta and albanian mafia work togetherr because they are nextdooor neighborss.. i read it all the timee.. but the nghardta has been around for veryy longg
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Postby thewestside » March 26th, 2008, 8:48 pm

Johnny Red wrote:why are we even talking about population figures now!?


Because you brought it up, that's why.

my whole point is you yourself wqestside have nemed the most powerful organisations in the world by ethnicity and albanians were one of them and they are a spec compared to other populations.


Yes, I do think the Albanians are a major organized crime entity in Europe. In my opinion, they're probably at #3 there after the Italians and Russians. As has been said, they are not as big a force in the U.S., although they are on the rise.

Once again, you brought up the subject of populations, although I don't really think it has much to do with anything. It certainly in no way proves your contention that the Albanians are the most powerful crime group in Europe.

i was talking to some mafia nut today, he has an entire library about mobsters and he himself (fully #%@&#%@ italian) told me he wouldnt be surprised if the albanian mafia turns out to be the biggest mafia in the world in like 10 years. in fact once i told him im albanian he didnt shut up about our mob, and that was from a bigger mafia freak than you westside this guy had like 300 bios films and books about them... russians italians all of them


So now you are using some "Mafia nut" you know as a source? I didn't think it was possible to find a worse reference than Wikipedia but I think you have managed to do just that.

teekay your a fuckin moron, why are you arguing about population figures, the fact is that every top named group that westside mentioned is 10 times larger than the albanians in population except colombians. and yet we still manage to be one of the most powerful and in europe, the MOST powerful, stronger than ndrangheta, or the red mafija or w.e other gay names those clowns made for themselves.


One of the surest signs that someone's argument is weak is when they resort to personal insults. You've done it a number of times now. All it does is show your immaturity and unwillingness to learn.

And once again, say it as much as you like, but you have offered no convincing proof that the Albanians are "the most powerful" in Europe. The vast majority of evidence shows they are neither "as strong" or "stronger" than the Italians and Russians.

truestar wrote:the population that johny is sayin is rite but that doesnt even really matter lol i dont know whos the strongest i think the nghardta is the strongest and than the albanian mob... but the nghardta and albanian mafia work togetherr because they are nextdooor neighborss.. i read it all the timee.. but the nghardta has been around for veryy longg


Well, like many things he says, Johnny Red has yet to provide proof that there are indeed 15 million Albanians worldwide.

As for you, you should do some more research. The Albanian organizations don't match up to most Russian organizations, nor do they match up to the three larger Italian syndicates - the Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, and Camorra. I would say, however, that they are comparable to the fourth major Italian syndicate, the Sacra Corona Unita, which is who they work the most with.
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Postby TeeKay » March 27th, 2008, 6:18 am

JohnnyRed wrote:
TeeKay wrote:What are we talking here? people of italian decent?

3.4million albanians in its own country, i dont even think theres close to even 11million worldwide.

Italians are at a rough estimate of 110 million worldwide,those that claim italian or partially italian heritage.

Brazil having the biggest population.


3.8 million in albania, 2 million in kosova, 500,000 + in macedonia, 1 million in greece, 100, 000 in montenegro. and dont give me BS websites and stats about that cause i know wtf im tsalking about im albanian i know the populations through out countries. wikiepdia is not reliable idiots... it says there are 30,000 albanians in switzerland when any article will tell you there ae 100,000 just from kosova living there.

albanian population is at 12-13 million


1748000 is the population of albanians in Kosovo not 2million :lol:


1 million in greece


A large number of the predominantly Muslim Cham refugees settled in villages of southern Albania, where today their descendants claim to number about 200,000 [3]. Muslim Chams were mostly nomadic shepherds, who acquired "grazing rights" for their flocks on pastures, both public and private, in exchange for a portion of their product. This verbally-settled grazing rights acquisition was a traditional transaction, dating back to Ottoman times. The National Political Association "Çamëria" (in Albanian: Shoqëria Politike Atdhetare "Çamëria"), a pressure group advocating the return of the Chams to Greece, receipt of compensation and greater freedom for the Orthodox Chams in Greece, was founded 10 January 1991. Greek descendants of Cham atrocities are also claiming compensation from Albania. The CPA claims a number of 2,800 dead and over 35,000 evicted although these figures are not supported by historians, like Victor Roudometof [6] or Mark Mazower [2], who put the number of evictees at 18,000. In 1994 Albania passed a law that declared the 27th of June The Day of Greek Chauvinist Genocide Against the Albanians of Chameria and built a memorial at the village of Konispol. In 1999 the president of the CPA, Hilmi Saqe, stated that:


Yeah you are right JohnnyRed you are albanian but that makes it evident you are BIAS towards pumping the albanians position in OC.
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Postby TeeKay » March 27th, 2008, 6:22 am

and yet we still manage to be one of the most powerful and in europe, the MOST powerful, stronger than ndrangheta, or the red mafija or w.e other gay names those clowns made for themselves.


So one minute back a few pages your saying albanians have a position in europe but dont match up to russians or italians now your saying their more powerful than 'Ndrangheta?

Jesus Johnny theres so many contradictions in your arguements that you MUST be an idiot.
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Postby JohnnyRed » March 27th, 2008, 4:57 pm

TeeKay wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:
TeeKay wrote:What are we talking here? people of italian decent?

3.4million albanians in its own country, i dont even think theres close to even 11million worldwide.

Italians are at a rough estimate of 110 million worldwide,those that claim italian or partially italian heritage.

Brazil having the biggest population.


3.8 million in albania, 2 million in kosova, 500,000 + in macedonia, 1 million in greece, 100, 000 in montenegro. and dont give me BS websites and stats about that cause i know wtf im tsalking about im albanian i know the populations through out countries. wikiepdia is not reliable idiots... it says there are 30,000 albanians in switzerland when any article will tell you there ae 100,000 just from kosova living there.

albanian population is at 12-13 million


1748000 is the population of albanians in Kosovo not 2million :lol:


1 million in greece


A large number of the predominantly Muslim Cham refugees settled in villages of southern Albania, where today their descendants claim to number about 200,000 [3]. Muslim Chams were mostly nomadic shepherds, who acquired "grazing rights" for their flocks on pastures, both public and private, in exchange for a portion of their product. This verbally-settled grazing rights acquisition was a traditional transaction, dating back to Ottoman times. The National Political Association "Çamëria" (in Albanian: Shoqëria Politike Atdhetare "Çamëria"), a pressure group advocating the return of the Chams to Greece, receipt of compensation and greater freedom for the Orthodox Chams in Greece, was founded 10 January 1991. Greek descendants of Cham atrocities are also claiming compensation from Albania. The CPA claims a number of 2,800 dead and over 35,000 evicted although these figures are not supported by historians, like Victor Roudometof [6] or Mark Mazower [2], who put the number of evictees at 18,000. In 1994 Albania passed a law that declared the 27th of June The Day of Greek Chauvinist Genocide Against the Albanians of Chameria and built a memorial at the village of Konispol. In 1999 the president of the CPA, Hilmi Saqe, stated that:


Yeah you are right JohnnyRed you are albanian but that makes it evident you are BIAS towards pumping the albanians position in OC.




omg you see this is why you people will never know first of Albanians, then second the Albanian mafia, because you people do not understand Albanians at all. you dont even know what a Cham is you moron, that a type of Albanian, like a Kosovan, is an Albanian.

Cham (from Chameria): Is an Albanian with origin from Chameria, which is now todays north west greece. there are 200,000 of them. after 1991, major waves of Albanians moved to Greece. resulting in 1,000,000.


read anyyyyyyyyyyyyyy article there is and it will tell you that there are 2,000,000 albanians in kosova. any article at all. even wikipedia.
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Postby Itallian Stallion » March 28th, 2008, 10:17 am

WHO CARES HOW MUCH THE POPULATION STOP TALKING BOUT THATT . THAT DOESNT MATTER IT TAKES VERY A GROUP OF PEOPLE TO START A MAFIA. ALBANIAN MAFIA ARE VERY STRONG IN EUROPE AS I KNOW SINCE I GO TO EUROPE I THINK THEY ARE THE SECOND STRONGEST AFTER THE ITALIANS AND THAN THE RUSSIANS BUT IN THE US THEY ARE NOT AS STRONG AS THEY ARE IN EUROPE BUT I HAVE HEARD THEY ARE RISINGG..
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Postby JohnnyRed » March 29th, 2008, 5:36 pm

Itallian Stallion wrote:WHO CARES HOW MUCH THE POPULATION STOP TALKING BOUT THATT . THAT DOESNT MATTER IT TAKES VERY A GROUP OF PEOPLE TO START A MAFIA. ALBANIAN MAFIA ARE VERY STRONG IN EUROPE AS I KNOW SINCE I GO TO EUROPE I THINK THEY ARE THE SECOND STRONGEST AFTER THE ITALIANS AND THAN THE RUSSIANS BUT IN THE US THEY ARE NOT AS STRONG AS THEY ARE IN EUROPE BUT I HAVE HEARD THEY ARE RISINGG..



Easy Rock, your gonna crap thunder at that rate. loool. No one said the Albanians are as powerful in America as they are in Europe. In America, the current status is this on the east coast, midwest areas. Italians, Albanians, Russians. In 10 years it will be Albanians, Russians, Italians. The Italians are getting weaker by the day in America, while they keep getting stronger in Europe. Albanians and Russians are rising everywhere they go. I cant say for the entire U.S. who the strongest is because there are certain areas that are controlled by certain groups. Weast coast for example is mainly Mexicans, El Salvadorians, Japs and Chinese crime groups with Russian presence. East Coast is Albanian, Italian, Russians, East Europeans, and Cubans, Colombians. But New York remains the Italians last strong hold and retty soon they wont even have that. In Europe on the other hand, they are very powerful and keep getting stronger. Maybe is Ndrangheta sent members down in the U.S. the Italians would still be in strong presence 15 years down the road from now. But unless something like that happens the Italians are an endangered mob out in New York.
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Postby thewestside » March 29th, 2008, 5:55 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Easy Rock, your gonna crap thunder at that rate. loool. No one said the Albanians are as powerful in America as they are in Europe. In America, the current status is this on the east coast, midwest areas. Italians, Albanians, Russians. In 10 years it will be Albanians, Russians, Italians. The Italians are getting weaker by the day in America, while they keep getting stronger in Europe. Albanians and Russians are rising everywhere they go. I cant say for the entire U.S. who the strongest is because there are certain areas that are controlled by certain groups. Weast coast for example is mainly Mexicans, El Salvadorians, Japs and Chinese crime groups with Russian presence. East Coast is Albanian, Italian, Russians, East Europeans, and Cubans, Colombians. But New York remains the Italians last strong hold and retty soon they wont even have that. In Europe on the other hand, they are very powerful and keep getting stronger. Maybe is Ndrangheta sent members down in the U.S. the Italians would still be in strong presence 15 years down the road from now. But unless something like that happens the Italians are an endangered mob out in New York.


New York is certainly where the LCN is the strongest, having five families. But there are five other areas where there continues to be considerable LCN activity, namely New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Detroit. Those families will be around for a long time to come.

As for the rest, there are remnants of families remaining in Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Northeast Pennsylvania, Tampa, New Orleans, Cleveland, Kansas City, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Nevada, and Los Angeles, but they are generally weak and insignificant, some being basically inactive or almost extinct.

The Italians in Canada, specifically the Sicilian Mafia and Calabrian 'Ndrangheta, have so far chosen not to expand into the U.S. The main reason being U.S. law enforcement and stricter laws.
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Postby flame_guards_member1 » March 30th, 2008, 1:45 pm

Check out this site, it has some nice info on the Albanian Mafia in Kosovo:

http://www.kosovo.net/albterrorism.html

Here's a sneak peak:

First 10 people there:



The list of terrorists and members of the organized crime groups in K&M

(in alphabetical order) which is, like the list of their crimes, incomplete.



1. HAJDIN (Isuf) ABAZI, alias "Lum Haxiu"

Born on April 30th, 1959, in the village of Gadiš, Municipality of Gnjilane. Over the years of his emigration in Switzerland and Sweden, he was one of the most influential KLA members in Western Europe. Together with Elmi Reqica, he was the main link between the said organization in K&M and Albanian emigration and the KLA headquarters abroad. In this capacity, he was in charge of collection of financial resources through "The Homeland Calls" fund intended for KLA. In August 1998, the Swiss Government blocked the account of the above-mentioned fund due to a suspicion of its being used to finance terrorist activities in K&M. Out of the country, he was particularly engaged in the recruitment and illegal transfer of trained terrorist KLA groups via FYROM and Albanian territories to K&M. In 1998, he was directly engaged in the establishment of KLA crisis headquarters in the region of Uroševac. Together with Emrush Xhemajli, he established and commanded KLA forces in the region, as well as the detachments operating in Kačanik, under direct command of Zaim Gabrica and Ismet Sadiku, former Yugoslav National Army (YNA) officers. Together with his family members, he participated in criminal activities in the region of Uroševac. Several Albanians who attempted to resist their banditry, robbery and repression were killed upon his order. Additionally, he was an organizer and participant in a number of political assassinations of Albanians, primarily members of DSK. From the position of the president of the Municipality of Uroševac, he attempted to win over former KLA members for his criminal activities. Due to conflicts with his associates in DPK, in March 2003, he left K&M and is currently living in Sweden, in the city of Malmö.



2. EKREM (Bajram) AVDIJA, alias "Abus Akej"

Born on July 18th, 1971, in Kosovska Mitrovica After completion of the Madrasa (Moslem religious school) in Priština, Avdija entered the School of Theology in Medina, his scholarship paid by Saudi Arabia. He participated in the armed conflicts in B&H. He completed military training in the "Abu Bekir Sidak" recruitment teaching center of the mujahedins, in Jablanica near Tešanj (B&H), as well as the training in the "Host" campus in Afghanistan where he was learned to handle light infantry arms and the military tactics skills. In the course of his stay in B&H, Ekrem Avdiu was strongly influenced by Abdulah Duhajman, the manager of the "Islamic Balkan Center" in Zenica, and by Adnan Pezo, the president of the organization known as "Active Islamic Youth" (AIY) and, on the basis of the instructions received, he established "Islamic Bureau of Kosovo" in January 1998, with its head office in Kosovska Mitrovica. The above-mentioned Bureau was used as a cover for the transfer of the financial assets intended for ideological education and recruitment of Moslems for the armed forces. Citizens of other Islamic countries, i.e., Mujahedins who gained their war experience in B&H and Afghanistan, were systematically transferred to K&M, mostly through Albania. In May 1998, Avdia established a Mujahedin unit "Abu Bekir Sidik". He appointed Shpendu Kopriva from Kosovska Mitrovica his deputy. He cooperated with KLA leaders, Sami Lushtaku, Sulejman Selimi and Adem Jashari, who supplied the "Abu Bekir Sidik" unit with arms and ammunition and provided instructions for specific terrorist activities. He was arrested together with Nexhmedin Llausha and Shpendu Kopriva in August 1998 by the police officers of the Republic of Serbia, when he attempted to cross illegally to the territory of Albania. A large quantity of weapons, hand grenades, bazookas and other military equipment was found with them, as well as a number of audio and video tapes with propaganda messages, mostly calls to Jihad – the holy war waged against non-Muslim population. Due to their terrorist actions, they were sentenced to long-term imprisonment. However, the whole group was granted amnesty in 2001 under the pressure of international community. After his release from prison, Ekrem Avdija continued to lead the "Islamic Bureau of Kosovo" which, in time, extended the scope of its activities through the establishment of numerous branches in all major towns in Kosovo and Metohija. He reactivated the "Abu Bekir Sidik" unit, with the seat in the southern part of Kosovska Mitrovica, which was joined by Shpendu Kopriva and Nexhmedin Llausha, as well as by Arif Krasniqi, from the village of Sibovce, Municipality of Obilić.



3. ALUSH (Sokol) AGUSHI, alias "Madjup", "Krhac", "Maljo" and "Dugme"

Born on June 20th, 1959, in the village of Drenovac, Municipality of Klina. As a member of the top KLA leadership in the Dukadjin zone of operations, he participated in the forced mobilization of Albanian population, the reception of weapons and the training of diversionary terrorist groups in the region of Klina. He participated in the attacks on the members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs and YA (the Army of Yugoslavia) forces (Jošanica, Biča, Grabac, Kijevo and Drenovac) with the help of a large number of his family members. On August 11th, 1998, Radovan Simović, from the village of Drenovac, was killed in his yard, while Vlado Stašić, from the village of Dugonjiva, was severely injured. In the same year, he organized attacks resulting in the killing of Oliver Zajić from the region of Klina, Grujica Šmigić, from the village of Drsnik, Dragan Stepić and Dragiša Kizić, as well as a number of members of the police force, while Desa Barović was injured in the region of the village of Jošanica. Together with the top members of KLA (Ramush Haradinaj, Lahi Ibrahimi and Idriz Balaj, alias "Toger"), Agushi was one of the key executors of genocide and the terror over Serbs and Albanians imprisoned in the village of Jablanica, Municipality of Klina. There is evidence and witnesses of their direct engagement in the kidnapping, torturing and liquidation of the prisoners kept in the above-mentioned prisons, whose bodies were subsequently dumped in the canal used for the filling of the Radonjić lake, as well as in a deserted well on the road from Jablanica to Žabelj, Municipality of Djakovica. Agushi was a commander of all other prisoner’s camps in the region of Klina. Brothers Radomir and Drago Voštić, from the village of Jelovac, Municipality of Klina, as well as Ivan Bulatović, member of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs, were killed in the village of Likovac, which was also under Agushi’s command. After the mass departure of Serbs from Metohija, Agushi carried out a systematic and organized destruction of their property and led the activities directed toward the expulsion of the remaining Serbian population from the region. At the same time, he organized the destruction of the Orthodox monuments and churches in the region of the Municipality of Klina, in the villages of Dolac, Drsnik, Petrac and Grebenik, as well as the desecration of the graveyards in the villages of Drsnik, Drenovac, Dugonjive, Petrc, Zajmovo, Dolovo, Grebnik, Klina, Vidanje, Jagoda and Dolac. After the retreat of the Serbian forces from K&M, he ordered and executed the kidnapping and murder of Milorad Dobrić, Milić Bogićević, Božana and Vojislav Jovanović, from the village of Drenica, Municipality of Klina. He is one of the leading participants in the criminal activities in the region of Klina. Agushi extorts money from Albanian criminal groups which, one way or other, usually by force, acquire Serbian real estate and property, forcing them to pay him the commission. He also murdered a number of Albanians who refused to give him the money. He was appointed chief inspector in the Kosovo Protective Corps (KPC) and he remained in contact with Sulejman Selimi, aka "Sultan", and the top leaders of KPC (Redxhep Selimi, Jetulah Gecaj, Gani Krasniqi – aka "Lumi" and Fatmir Limaj, indicted by the Hague Tribunal.



4. RASIM (Hamid) AGUSHI

Born on July 17th, 1962, in Drenovac, Municipality of Klina. He was a member of the General staff of Dukadjin operational zone, i.e., the commander of the KLA 3rd operational zone. He operated within the 131st Brigade "Mirta Zineli”. At the moment, he the KPC commander in Peć. As a member of a terrorist group, Agushi is responsible for more than 87 murders, 29 abductions, for the organization of the prisons located in the villages of Glodjani, Belanica, Likovac and Jablanica, in the Municipality of Peć, as well as for the rape and sexual harassment of a number of persons, and for the destruction of property. Additionally, he also participated in approximately 180 terrorist actions, including armed attacks on the villages of Ljodja and Babaloć in the middle of 1998. He actively participated in the forced expulsion of non-Albanian population from the region of Djakovica, Peć and Dečani, and is responsible for setting fire to the church in the village of Gornji Rasic. He was a direct participant in the terrorist action against the village of Drenovac, as well as in the armed attacks on the house of Jagoš Djuričić. Moreover, he was an accomplice in the murder of Dragomir Stepić from Drenovac, and of Milić Bogicević, Milorad Dobrić, Vojislav Jovanović and his wife, and four Roms, committed in the village of Draganovac, Municipality of Klina in 1999. He is accused of participation in the terrorist attacks on the members of Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs in Klina, Municipality of Peć, as well as of the attack on the police station in Klina.



5. NAZMI (Adem) AJETI

Born on April 22nd, 1972, in Podujevo. After the arrest of the members of NPRK in K&M in 1993, Ajeti escaped from the country and fled to Switzerland where he established contacts with NPOK members. In 1994 he was sentenced, in absence, to 7 years of imprisonment. In 1998, after his arrival from Switzerland, he joined KLA forces. He was engaged, by Rustem Mustafa, in illegal supply of weapons and ammunition from Albania, inside the Lab zone of operations. After the removal of the Serbian forces from K&M, he formed a diversionary terrorist group, called "Red Hand", for the purpose of ethnic cleansing of the Serbian and Montenegrin population from the region of Podujevo. Together with his above-mentioned brother, he joined the Liberation Army of Preševo, Medvedja and Bujanovac (LAPMB) and, in March 2001, he participated in the terrorist actions against the members of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and on YA forces. He is a drug addict.







6. HISNI (Izet) AHMETI, alias "His"

Born on July 27th, 1972, in the village of Šupkovac, Municipality of Kosovska Mitrovica. During the war in B&H, he was a member of the Muslim armed forces. He is one of the key persons engaged in the organization of KLA and its branches in the region of Kosovska Mitrovica, i.e., in the establishment of the operational zone Shalja covering the regions of the municipalities of Kosovska Mitrovica, Vučitrn, Obilić, Zubin Potok and Leposavić, with several thousands of well armed terrorists. Early in January 1999, he was appointed commander of the 141st KLA brigade and participated in almost every attack on the members of the Serbian Ministry of the Interior and on YA forces in the region. He was engaged in fundraising, procurement of arms and in the military and diversionary training. On June 24th, 1998, Ahmeti‘s terrorist group carried out an attack on the Serbs in the village of Pantina and kidnapped the married couple Čedomirka and Ratomir Miljković, whose fate is still unknown. On January 22nd, 1999, the same group kidnapped Miša Bigović, from the village of Nevoljane, from his workplace in "Elektrodistribucija” (Power supply company) in Vučitrn, as well as four members of Mialičković family, from Nevoljane, the same Municipality. The kidnapped persons were transported to KLA general staff in the village of Likovac, Municipality of Srbica, to be released after several days after intervention of the OSCE observers. In May 1999, members of the third platoon of the special unit within the operational zone of Shalja, killed 12 members of the Army of Yugoslavia, as well as Miroslav Špiric, from Vučitrn, on the Kosovska Mitrovica–Vučitrn road. The same group kidnapped Ljubomir Knežević, a correspondent of the daily "Politika”, on the bridge over the Sitnica river, and killed him after torturing him for days. In January 1999, together with Rahman Rama, Hisni Ahmeti organized and carried out an attack on YA forces in the region of Shalja, when 8 members of the military police were kidnapped. In the course of negotiations with the OSCE representatives, carried out in the region of Shalja, Rahman Rama refused to set the kidnapped soldiers free. In June of the same year, he took illegally the control over the distribution of oil derivatives in the region of Vučitrn and Kosovska Mitrovica, over the gasoline stations owned by "Beopetrol” and "Jugopetrol”. Since February 2000, these facilities have been under UNMIK control. Following the establishment of the KPC, Rama was appointed commander of the 4th Regional territorial group (RTG), with its seat in Kosovska Mitrovica, with Hisni Ahmeti as his deputy.



7. ABDULAH (Muharem) BABALIJA

Born on May 22nd, 1967, in Djakovica. As a commander of the 137th KLA brigade, Babalija was the organizer of the attacks on the members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Municipalities of Djakovica and Dečani, where several members of the police and military forces were ambushed and killed. Among others, his group was in charge of intimidating, kidnapping and killing the remaining Serbs, as well as in charge of the destruction of their property in this region. Upon his order, a number of Serbs were abducted and taken over into the terrorist base in the village of Glodjani, where they were murdered after extended torture and maltreatment. Five members of the Šutaković family from Djakovica were among them. A group of terrorists led by him carried out a number of attacks in the residential area of Čabrat, in Djakovica, in 1999, when several civilians and three police and YA members were killed, while ten persons were more or less seriously injured. Moreover, he is responsible for the mining and demolition of the Orthodox church in the central part of the town of Djakovica. In order to achieve a total control over the town, he organized "private" traffic police and a guard in Djakovica, as well as bodyguards in public institutions and companies (through the firms "Besa Security" and "K.P.S. Jaguara Security"). Together with some members of the KPC, he was engaged in the smuggling of weapons and in extortion. In 2002, Ramush Haradinaj appointed him commander of the 332nd KPC brigade in Djakovica. Soon after, he was transferred to Peć. There are some indications of his personal conflict with Daut Haradinaj.



8. MASAR (Ferhat) BAKIJA

Born on February 18th, 1953, in Djakovica Joined the illegal paramilitary organization of "National Front" in 1991. As a reserve officer and an employee of the Territorial Defence in Djakovica, he was in charge of the preparation of the plans, drafts, organizational and military establishments, etc. After joining KLA, he soon became high ranking officer in the command hierarchy and thus kept regular contacts with the terrorist group of Hekuran Hoda, which carried out terrorist actions in the region of Djakovica, following his instructions. Moreover, he was the leader of the terrorist group named "Black caps", which operated in the region of Djakovica. After the withdrawal of the Serbian military and police forces and the formation of KPC, he was appointed "chief of operations”, with headquarters in Dečani, with the rank of a major. From the position, he kept under control all KPC bases in the region of Metohija. As a high ranking KPC officer in the region of Djakovica, he established contacts with the representatives of Islamic organizations from Saudi Arabia, as well as with the group composed of about 40 mujahedins who participated in the armed conflicts in K&M against the Serbian security forces.



9. IDRIZ (Halil) BALAJ, alias "Toger"

Born on August 8th, 1952, in the village of Iglarevo, Municipality of Klina. He was a commander of the special KLA unit known as "Black eagles", formed by him upon the order of Ramush Haradinaj and operating within the 131st brigade of the Dukadjin operational zone, and later on as the deputy commander of the guard of the RTG KPC, with the rank of a major. He was arrested by UNMIK police on August 11th, 2002. Together with Ramush Haradinaj, he was involved in the murder of about 40 persons, whose bodies were dumped into the canal of the Bistrica river. Additionally, he is responsible for the crimes committed in the region of the above-mentioned operational zone. Together with Daut and Bujar Hardinai and Arben Ahmetaj, he led a terrorist group which carried out armed attacks on the members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs near the village of Jablanica, Municipality of Djakovica, and on the members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs and the YA forces in the villages of Glodjane and Donji Ratiš, Municipality of Dečani, on October 17th, 1998, and November 16th, 1999, near the village of Došinovica, Municipality of Dečani. In June 1999, he kidnapped Milorad Jovanović, a pensioner, Djordje Kuzmanović, a worker employed at the Public Enterprise PTT of Serbia, and Vladimir Vulević, from Peć, who have been lost ever since. He is the organizer of the forced deportation of the population from the region of Djakovica, Peć and Dečani, and the perpetrator of the burning down of the church in the village of Gornji Ratiš. He was particularly known for his cruelty in torturing and murdering his victims, dismembering them with a tractor. He damped the remains of the corpses in the canal of the Radonjić lake. He was also known among the Albanian population as a perpetrator of the crimes against his fellowmen. In late 1998, he killed Agim Ibrahimi, a taxidriver from Djakovica. He is also responsible for the killings of Cvetko Novović, from the village of Nabrdje, Municipality of Peć, and of his wife, and for the imprisonment of Osman Berisha and Ujkan Avduli, also from Peć, and of Vukašin Šćekić, who were kept imprisoned and physically tortured for an extended period of time. In the late 1999, he kidnapped Vesel Murishi and four other ethnic Albanians. He kept them detained in the "Dukadjin” building in Peć for some time, killed four of them while Murishi managed to escape. A number of the kidnapped persons were tortured and murdered in the village of Ruhot. Their bodies were dumped in the Beli Drim river. Xhafer Gjuka, a political functionary from Peć, was among the victims. Additionally, Balaj was publicly accused of the disappearance and murder of a number of Albanians from the region of Metohija. He is a suspected accomplice in the murder of Ismajl Hajdari, a DSK member on January 17th, 2002, in Peć. Idriz Balaj belongs to the criminal organization known as "Dukadjini", led by Ramush Haradinaj. He is one of the important organizers of the smuggling of arms from Albania to Macedonia and Serbia and Montenegro, along the Peć-Kula-Rožaje route. He did all this in cooperation with Ramush and Daut Haradinaj and Xhavit Haliti. He is close with the Elshani family since he cooperates with its members in illegal oil trade. On January 20th, 2001, unknown persons tried to assassinate Balaj by planting an explosive device at the his house entrance, when Idriz Balaj, his wife Teuta and a son, Sulejman, were seriously injured.



10. AFRIM (Hamdi) BASHA

Born in 1971 in the village of Vranić, Municipality of Suva Reka. He lived for some time in Switzerland and was one of the participants in the war in Croatia and an instructor in the training of terrorists from K&M organized in the Republic of Albania. As a member of a terrorist group in the village of Vranić, he participated in numerous KLA attacks on the police forces (in Lapušnik – Municipality of Glogovac, in Ovčarevo - Municipality of Srbica, in Crnoljevo – Municipality of Štimlje, in Banja – Municipality of Mališevo and in Ladrovac). For a time, he was the leader of the group in charge of liquidation of the members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs and of ethnic Albanians loyal to the Republic of Serbia from the region of Suva Reka and Prizren. To this end, he was in charge of selecting the targets and made a list of persons for liquidation. Among others, the list included Miško Nišović, a state security member from Prizren, Agim Shahiti, a members of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs from the village of Sopina, Selim Selmani, former police officer, Sahit Zogaj, former security member from Miliševo, Bekim Sahiti, from the village of Trnje, who was brutally murdered by Basha and the members of his group. Early in September 1998, he kidnapped a member of the police forces from Orahovac, transported him to a prisoner’s camp located in the village of Timičina, Municipality of Suva Reka, where he was ruthlessly tortured. A number of Serbs and Albanians from the said region were detained in this camp.
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Postby truestar » March 30th, 2008, 5:01 pm

NO ONE KNOWS WHOS THE STRONGEST BUT I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THE NGHARDTA IS THE STRONGEST CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION RITE NOW IN THE WORLD.. I THINK THE ALBANIAN MAFIA IS SECOND AND THAN THE RUSSIAN MAFIA. BUT WHO KNOWS.. I READ ALOT ABOUT THIS STUFF BUT ONLY THE TOP DOGS WHO CRACK DOWN THESE BADBOYS WOULD KNOW WHOS REALLY THE STRONGEST ORGANIZATION
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Postby thewestside » March 30th, 2008, 6:27 pm

truestar wrote:NO ONE KNOWS WHOS THE STRONGEST BUT I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THE NGHARDTA IS THE STRONGEST CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION RITE NOW IN THE WORLD.. I THINK THE ALBANIAN MAFIA IS SECOND AND THAN THE RUSSIAN MAFIA. BUT WHO KNOWS.. I READ ALOT ABOUT THIS STUFF BUT ONLY THE TOP DOGS WHO CRACK DOWN THESE BADBOYS WOULD KNOW WHOS REALLY THE STRONGEST ORGANIZATION


As a change of pace, rather than presenting a counterargument to some of your comments, I will simply ask you why you think the 'Ndrangheta is #1, the Albanian Mafia #2, and the Russian Mafia #3?
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Postby Richboy17 » March 30th, 2008, 6:36 pm

I think the Rizzuto Family is the strongest organization or family in the world. Those muthafuckas make liek billions a year.
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Postby thewestside » March 30th, 2008, 6:49 pm

Richboy17 wrote:I think the Rizzuto Family is the strongest organization or family in the world. Those muthafuckas make liek billions a year.


The Rizzuto family is but an extension of the Cattolica Eraclea clan, one of 180 or so clans in the Sicilian Mafia.
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Postby flame_guards_member1 » March 31st, 2008, 3:16 pm

The Albanian mafia controls Western Macedonia's underworld, while the Bulgarian mafia controls the east. You can't prove me wrong here because first off, we don't have a mafia. Second, there are no Albanians in Eastern Macedonia and usually ends up as alot of people know in them getting killed because there are 10 times more Macedonians in the east than Albanians and you know the hate.. Third, every single person my dad knew in the 1970s and after in my hometown Stip was connected to the Bulgarian Mafia, they worked for them because we're at the east and thus closer, and besides that the Albanian mafia wasn't as strong or maybe didn't even exist in the 1970s, while the Bulgarian mafia controlled Eastern Macedonia because it was strong and close. My dad's friend Zdravko is one example, may he rest in peace, was a great martial artist and an enforcer for the Bulgarian mafia in Bulgaria. He probably got into some trouble, and during a fight in a bar in Sofia I'm guessing, he got shot in the arm and was beaten badly, so came back. This just goes to show you there will always be someone stronger than you, and Zdravko was probably the strongest person in my town at that time.

The Albanian mafia is always killing eachother and others, selling drugs and all that shit in Western Macedonia, in other words the most active in the cities of Skopje, Tetovo, Gostivar, Kumanovo, Debar, Kicevo and Struga where the Albanian population thrives.

There is the Zemun clan I belive in Macedonia, which means the Serbian mafia is also active in Macedonia, but I'm guessing not as active as the Albanians, nor as strong as them.

As for the Macedonian mafia, there isn't any. If you want, you can call about maybe 30-50 local groups of Macedonian criminals engaged in all types of criminal activity, including organized crime, with maybe a couple hundred people in the whole country at most, maybe even less than that, a mafia. We don't have things like crime families or clans, it's just a bunch of criminal friends like to rob banks and shit. Of course it's useless now to say that since most of these guys in my town for example, such as my dad's friend Slave Ivanov, took advantage of Yugoslavia's breakup and the enterance of Capitalism into Macedonia, where people like him had positions as general managers of companies or CEO's or something similar, and stole alot of money through the company and got rich. Slave Ivanov, or Slave Oazata, owns his own Oaza Resturaunt and the Oaza Hotel, formerly Hotel Astibo, in Stip. He had a fur coat business in which rumor has it traffiked/smuggled cocaine through it.

Russian mafia, it's the Balkans, come on, the most Slavic countries anywhere in the world except close to Russia, and all Slavs think alike, so have the same mentality, so Russians, Macedonians, Serbians, Bulgarians and Ukrainians being Orthodox Slavs, we can reason with eachother since we think alike and have a similar lanuage. As I said, it's the Balkans, so in Macedonia, not that active, but it should have a few or more people here.

Westside, the Russian mafia, how much does it make each year overall, every single group all in total?

The Italians make about 200-225 billion dollars according to your website, which I've seen before, never got the chance to read it, thanks for the link, so how much would the Russians make if they are wealthier than the Italians?

Ok, if they're not wealthier they are more powerful... :lol:

Let me take a wild guess here, 250-350 billion a year? Less? More? Somewhere in between?

Can you give me an estimation? Thanks. :D
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Postby JohnnyRed » March 31st, 2008, 5:36 pm

As a change of pace, rather than presenting a counterargument to some of your comments, I will simply ask you why you think the 'Ndrangheta is #1, the Albanian Mafia #2, and the Russian Mafia #3?[/quote]


I'll tell you westside why I think the Albanian mafia is the strongest force in organised crime, and 50 years down the road will be the strongest criminal force in modern history.

1: A random city in Albania has a criminal population of 12,400 when the total population is 124,000. I'll admit not every city in Albania has that many cimrinals per capita but most are not different than Vlore and many are alot worse.

2: If the Balkan route is worth $400,000,000,000/yearly and the Albanians control 80% of it. Wouldnt that make just the Albanian mafias heroin operations more wealthy than every Italian or Russian organisation put together?

3: To truly understand Albanian organised crime, you have to either be an Albanian yourself or be/live around alot of them.


westside have you ever met an Albanian before? If so, what was he like? Another thing, every time I post an article on here its a fake. But for some reason every time you do its official? Like wtf, this is why I lower myself to insulting you after a while. You have used wikipedia as your source many times. But when I do it, Im an idiot for using wikipedia, but you, the almighty westside uses wikipedia and god himself wrote that article
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Postby JohnnyRed » March 31st, 2008, 5:39 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
1: A random city in Albania has a criminal population of 12,400 when the total population is 124,000. I'll admit not every city in Albania has that many cimrinals per capita but most are not different than Vlore and many are alot worse.



And isnt 12,400 bigger than 7000 or how ever many criminals ndrangheta has? jw... I guess if we go by what reports and statistics say on the internet like you than the mafia in Vlore alone is half as big as the entire Italian mafia. loool
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Postby thewestside » March 31st, 2008, 6:22 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:I'll tell you westside why I think the Albanian mafia is the strongest force in organised crime, and 50 years down the road will be the strongest criminal force in modern history.

1: A random city in Albania has a criminal population of 12,400 when the total population is 124,000. I'll admit not every city in Albania has that many cimrinals per capita but most are not different than Vlore and many are alot worse.


I agree that Albania is a violent country with a relatively large criminal subculture. But how does that prove that the Albanian Mafia is the "strongest force in organized crime?" Many nations are violent with large criminal subcultures.

: 2 If the Balkan route is worth $400,000,000,000/yearly and the Albanians control 80% of it. Wouldnt that make just the Albanian mafias heroin operations more wealthy than every Italian or Russian organisation put together?


Maybe you posted this before you saw my response to the above in the "Strongest Criminal Organization in Europe" thread, but in case you haven't see in, I'll cut n' paste my answer below -

First off, thank you for providing a source to support your argument. Normally, I wouldn't be one to quibble with the Deputy Director of the Global Organized Crime Program at the
Center for Strategic & International Studies. However, there is a problem here. Because of it's very nature, statistics related to organized crime vary widely. But none more so than the case of drugs. You have to differentiate between the production level, the wholesale level, and the retail level. Most of the time, government officials, law enforcement agencies, and journalists will quote retail figures because they are the largest and so are the most impressive. But even when a specific level is specified, the estimates still vary a great deal. What one has to do is usually try and find the average estimate, between the highs and the lows.

Now I have done quite a bit of study on the value of drug markets, both globally and in specific regions around the world. And I can say unequivicably and without hesitation that the Balkan heroin route IS NOT worth $400 billion a year. Not even close. In fact, that figure is so far off from all other estimates that I have seen as to be laughable.

Over the past decade, the United Nations has estimated that the global market for all illegal drugs is $400 billion. However, a recent study by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that even this estimate was likely too high, and stated so in the World Drug Report for 2005 -

"The value of the global illicit drug market for the year 2003 was estimated at $13 billion at the production level, at $94 billion at the wholesale level (taking seizures into account), and at $322 billion based on retail prices and taking seizures and other losses into account."

Source: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), World Drug Report 2005 (Vienna, Austria: UNODC, June 2005), p. 127.

3: To truly understand Albanian organised crime, you have to either be an Albanian yourself or be/live around alot of them.


I don't think that's necessarily true at all. Do you think that just because you are Albanian that you would automatically know more about Albanian organized crime than say a non-Albanian FBI agent who investigates the Albanian mob?

westside have you ever met an Albanian before? If so, what was he like?


No, I've never met anyone that I knew to be Albanian. I guess it's possible that I have but I wouldn't know whether they were or not.

Another thing, every time I post an article on here its a fake. But for some reason every time you do its official? Like wtf, this is why I lower myself to insulting you after a while. You have used wikipedia as your source many times. But when I do it, Im an idiot for using wikipedia, but you, the almighty westside uses wikipedia and god himself wrote that article


I have never said your articles are fake. Some of them have been questionable, citing no official sources. The CNN article cited an unknown FBI source. And, while I acknowledged the article you posted recently about the $400 billion Balkan heroin route did cite an official source, it was simply wrong. Not because I say so mind you, but because all of the other available evidence says so. That's why I have kept saying you need to look at all of the evidence together rather than resting your argument on a single article, a single official's statement, or even a single official report alone. When it comes to organized crime, journalists and even government and law enforcement officials get it wrong sometimes and so you have to compare as much information as you can get and see what stands up to scrutiny and what doesn't. By the same token, I don't necessarily expect you to accept just one article (even with official sources), one official's comment, or one official report that I use alone. My arguments are supported by the combined evidence that I present.

For the record, I have never used Wikipeda itself as a source. Ever. The only time I have used Wikipedia, and the only time it's worth anything, is when you can find the original sources cited at the bottom of the Wikipedia article itself. If there are links to official sources or more reputable articles, from which the Wikipedia article was written, I will use those sometimes. But never a Wikipedia article itself. That's just foolish because you have no idea who has written it, and to be honest, much of the information on organized crime on Wikipedia is false.
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Postby thewestside » March 31st, 2008, 6:28 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:

And isnt 12,400 bigger than 7000 or how ever many criminals ndrangheta has? jw... I guess if we go by what reports and statistics say on the internet like you than the mafia in Vlore alone is half as big as the entire Italian mafia. loool


Maybe you didn't see my response to the above in the other thread. So, I'll cut n' paste once again -

Once again, you have just thrown out some numbers without any documentation backing them up. Please provide some proof if you have any.

As far as the Italians are concerned, here is the breakdown, with documentation I might add. The Camorra (Campania) has 150 clans and 7,000 members. The 'Ndrangheta (Calabria) has 160 clans with 6,000 members. The Cosa Nostra (Sicily) has 180 clans with 5,000 members. And the Sacra Corona Unita has 50 clans with 2,000 members. Together, they have a combined 540 clans and at least 20,000 members. Other estimates, included in the links below, range from 21,000 to 25,000 members. Both U.S. and Italian authorities further estimate that there are 10 associates for every made member. So, in addition to 20,000 to 25,000 made members, the four major Italian syndicates have 200,000 to 250,000 associates.

Federal Burea of Investigation (FBI)
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/lcnindex.htm

International Crime Threat Assessment (2000)
http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/NSC/htm ... p3.html#r3
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Postby thewestside » March 31st, 2008, 6:30 pm

flame_guards_member1 wrote:

Westside, the Russian mafia, how much does it make each year overall, every single group all in total?

The Italians make about 200-225 billion dollars according to your website, which I've seen before, never got the chance to read it, thanks for the link, so how much would the Russians make if they are wealthier than the Italians?

Ok, if they're not wealthier they are more powerful... :lol:

Let me take a wild guess here, 250-350 billion a year? Less? More? Somewhere in between?

Can you give me an estimation? Thanks. :D


$200-225 billion? Where did you get that figure? I don't have a website myself. Which one are you talking about?
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Postby JohnnyRed » March 31st, 2008, 7:07 pm

I agree that Albania is a violent country with a relatively large criminal subculture. But how does that prove that the Albanian Mafia is the "strongest force in organized crime?" Many nations are violent with large criminal subcultures.


Actually it is the most violent non war time country to be reported in the world. I do think there are more violent countries but as far as the ones who reported it. Albania is the worse. As far as the cimrinal culture goes, Albania does have a huge one. being as 25% of only Albanian youths in Albania work in the drug trade, most of whom work in it outside the country. westside what are you honestly... just say what nationality you are... btw why is every car in albania a 2005+ mercedes? lol

: 2 If the Balkan route is worth $400,000,000,000/yearly and the Albanians control 80% of it. Wouldnt that make just the Albanian mafias heroin operations more wealthy than every Italian or Russian organisation put together?


Maybe you posted this before you saw my response to the above in the "Strongest Criminal Organization in Europe" thread, but in case you haven't see in, I'll cut n' paste my answer below -

your own article amounted to more than 400 billion dollars westside. 322 billion based on retail price alone and the other two numbers. 100 billion dollars annually is what the american cocaine market is worth... I think the balkan route could amount to 400 billion.

3: To truly understand Albanian organised crime, you have to either be an Albanian yourself or be/live around alot of them.


I don't think that's necessarily true at all. Do you think that just because you are Albanian that you would automatically know more about Albanian organized crime than say a non-Albanian FBI agent who investigates the Albanian mob?


Yes I do, you see an FBI agent who investigates on the Albanian mafia would have to have come in contact with one. He would be monitoring Albanians all day if that was his job. He understands.

westside have you ever met an Albanian before? If so, what was he like?


No, I've never met anyone that I knew to be Albanian. I guess it's possible that I have but I wouldn't know whether they were or not.

Another thing, every time I post an article on here its a fake. But for some reason every time you do its official? Like wtf, this is why I lower myself to insulting you after a while. You have used wikipedia as your source many times. But when I do it, Im an idiot for using wikipedia, but you, the almighty westside uses wikipedia and god himself wrote that article


I have never said your articles are fake. Some of them have been questionable, citing no official sources. The CNN article cited an unknown FBI source. And, while I acknowledged the article you posted recently about the $400 billion Balkan heroin route did cite an official source, it was simply wrong. Not because I say so mind you, but because all of the other available evidence says so. That's why I have kept saying you need to look at all of the evidence together rather than resting your argument on a single article, a single official's statement, or even a single official report alone. When it comes to organized crime, journalists and even government and law enforcement officials get it wrong sometimes and so you have to compare as much information as you can get and see what stands up to scrutiny and what doesn't. By the same token, I don't necessarily expect you to accept just one article (even with official sources), one official's comment, or one official report that I use alone. My arguments are supported by the combined evidence that I present.

For the record, I have never used Wikipeda itself as a source. Ever. The only time I have used Wikipedia, and the only time it's worth anything, is when you can find the original sources cited at the bottom of the Wikipedia article itself. If there are links to official sources or more reputable articles, from which the Wikipedia article was written, I will use those sometimes. But never a Wikipedia article itself. That's just foolish because you have no idea who has written it, and to be honest, much of the information on organized crime on Wikipedia is false.[/quote]


for the record you have used wikipedia for the rudaj argument 100 times. because there is a statment on there that says they didnt amount to a sixth family. which is BS because they amounted to the BS family they called the colombos.
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Postby thewestside » March 31st, 2008, 7:39 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:Actually it is the most violent non war time country to be reported in the world. I do think there are more violent countries but as far as the ones who reported it. Albania is the worse. As far as the cimrinal culture goes, Albania does have a huge one. being as 25% of only Albanian youths in Albania work in the drug trade, most of whom work in it outside the country. westside what are you honestly... just say what nationality you are... btw why is every car in albania a 2005+ mercedes? lol


You still have yet to explain how Albania having a violent criminal subculture, even the most violent, makes them the most powerful criminal organization in the world.

For the record, I'm mostly of English descent. Some Danish.

your own article amounted to more than 400 billion dollars westside. 322 billion based on retail price alone and the other two numbers. 100 billion dollars annually is what the american cocaine market is worth... I think the balkan route could amount to 400 billion.


Did you read that carefully? It said the total retail market for narcotics worldwide is $322 billion. The U.S. cocaine market is not worth $100 billion.

Yes I do, you see an FBI agent who investigates on the Albanian mafia would have to have come in contact with one. He would be monitoring Albanians all day if that was his job. He understands.


But his knowledge comes from investigating them. He doesn't have to be an Albanian himself to understand Albanian organized crime, which is what you said. Likewise, I can research Albanian organized crime and learn about it without having to be Albanian myself.

for the record you have used wikipedia for the rudaj argument 100 times. because there is a statment on there that says they didnt amount to a sixth family. which is BS because they amounted to the BS family they called the colombos.


Read this very carefully. I have NEVER used Wikipedia to support an argument. Ever. Just because I said the Rudaj gang didn't amount to a sixth family, and the fact that it may say that on the Wikipedia article, doesn't mean that's where I got my opinion. Just because you use Wikipedia as a source, don't assume that others do.

And what do you mean the Rudaj gang amounted to the "BS family they call the Colombos?"
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Postby TeeKay » April 1st, 2008, 1:55 am

Actually it is the most violent non war time country to be reported in the world.


Wrong, even if columbia's war time days are over it still remains a violent country along with el'salvador,Haiti.
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Postby Unbreakable » April 1st, 2008, 2:04 am

Albania is not as violent as Africa or even South Africa. Infact its porbably not anymore violent than black ghettos in the u.s.
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Postby truestar » April 1st, 2008, 9:33 am

its nottt.. johnyred is a retart lol... dont listen to him he dont know shiet and so dont any of us.. i beeen in albania and its not violent at alllll is used 2 at war time just like any country is... johny i know ur albo and u got pride but your overexaggerating like crazy.. you dont know if albanian mafia is strongest.. its strong but not strongest or maybe it is who knows.. stop talking like your cia and know..
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Postby JohnnyRed » April 1st, 2008, 4:41 pm

Unbreakable wrote:Albania is not as violent as Africa or even South Africa. Infact its porbably not anymore violent than black ghettos in the u.s.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_rate (yes its a wikipedia article, for what its worth, this page IS reliable in my opinion because...When I was in Albania I heard on the news that 3000 people got shot down, now if you do the math that would come out to 83.3 per 100,000 even though i strongly think that the ALbanian government would lie to the US and try to downsize the killings per capita.)

Unbreakable why do you say ignorant things like that?
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Postby JohnnyRed » April 1st, 2008, 4:43 pm

truestar wrote:its nottt.. johnyred is a retart lol... dont listen to him he dont know shiet and so dont any of us.. i beeen in albania and its not violent at alllll is used 2 at war time just like any country is... johny i know ur albo and u got pride but your overexaggerating like crazy.. you dont know if albanian mafia is strongest.. its strong but not strongest or maybe it is who knows.. stop talking like your cia and know..



Not violent at all? what part of fuckin Albania you from? I never came on here saying THE ALBANIAN MAFIA IS THE ABSOLUTE MOST POWERFUL IN THE WORLD. but westside came on here and says all this stuff about the ITalians and on all the Albanian mafia threads he had to come and make Albanians look like ITalians bitches and slave workers... thats when I really got into it.
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Postby JohnnyRed » April 1st, 2008, 4:44 pm

TeeKay wrote:
Actually it is the most violent non war time country to be reported in the world.


Wrong, even if columbia's war time days are over it still remains a violent country along with el'salvador,Haiti.



Colombia is violent, very violent, who said it wasent?
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Postby thewestside » April 1st, 2008, 4:56 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:I never came on here saying THE ALBANIAN MAFIA IS THE ABSOLUTE MOST POWERFUL IN THE WORLD.


You didn't start out by saying that, but you have said it a number of times, although you have yet to prove it.

but westside came on here and says all this stuff about the ITalians and on all the Albanian mafia threads he had to come and make Albanians look like ITalians women and slave workers... thats when I really got into it.


I corrected some misconceptions about the Rudaj gang, many of which came from you. I didn't come here to make Albanians look like "the Italian's women and slave workers." I just tell it like it is.
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Postby JohnnyRed » April 1st, 2008, 4:56 pm

You still have yet to explain how Albania having a violent criminal subculture, even the most violent, makes them the most powerful criminal organization in the world.

For the record, I'm mostly of English descent. Some Danish.


It doesnt really, just acknowledge that Albania has the most mobsters per capita in the world and were good lool. Listen, I agree with you that the Albanian mafia is not the most powerful in the world. I still think if every criminal group take there own country away (ex. Russian OC takes away Russia, Italian OC takes away ITaly.) If we take away each criminal groups own country away then I would have to say that the Albanian mafia is the strongest. Every crime group has the powerhouse in there own country, thats why the Russian OC seem so massive, and Italian OC seems so powerful. Take away China fro mthe Triads and what do you have? Take away Albania (the entire Albania.. Kosova, Malizi, Illirda, Albania proper) and you still have a gigantic force in crime.

your own article amounted to more than 400 billion dollars westside. 322 billion based on retail price alone and the other two numbers. 100 billion dollars annually is what the american cocaine market is worth... I think the balkan route could amount to 400 billion.


Alright Ill just take your word for this matter. Im going on only one report and what the dickhead in scarfaces TV said about cocaine lol when he said "how can you put a dent on a estimated 100 billion dollar a year industry"

for the record you have used wikipedia for the rudaj argument 100 times. because there is a statment on there that says they didnt amount to a sixth family. which is BS because they amounted to the BS family they called the colombos.


Read this very carefully. I have NEVER used Wikipedia to support an argument. Ever. Just because I said the Rudaj gang didn't amount to a sixth family, and the fact that it may say that on the Wikipedia article, doesn't mean that's where I got my opinion. Just because you use Wikipedia as a source, don't assume that others do.

And what do you mean the Rudaj gang amounted to the "BS family they call the Colombos?"[/quote]


I mean the Colombos are morons, disorganised, messy, half of them, or more than half I should say turn into rats when faces with a long sentences. The Rudajs amount to them without problem.

And face it westside if the Rudaj were as low rent as you keep saying, then the Gambino acting boss would not have met with them at all. The gambinos have like 200 members dont they? Why didnt they just put a stop to the Rudajs easily then?
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Postby thewestside » April 1st, 2008, 10:32 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:It doesnt really, just acknowledge that Albania has the most mobsters per capita in the world and were good lool. Listen, I agree with you that the Albanian mafia is not the most powerful in the world. I still think if every criminal group take there own country away (ex. Russian OC takes away Russia, Italian OC takes away ITaly.) If we take away each criminal groups own country away then I would have to say that the Albanian mafia is the strongest. Every crime group has the powerhouse in there own country, thats why the Russian OC seem so massive, and Italian OC seems so powerful. Take away China fro mthe Triads and what do you have? Take away Albania (the entire Albania.. Kosova, Malizi, Illirda, Albania proper) and you still have a gigantic force in crime.


OK, so you acknowledge that the Albanian Mafia is not the most powerful in the world. Now try to stick to that position and don't flip to another position tomorrow or next week.

I really don't understand why you come up with these hypothetical scenarios like taking away each criminal organization's country. It's really pointless. But, in this case, I'll indulge you because your argument actually works against the Albanian mob. The Italians, the Russians, and the Chinese all operate on a global basis. Even if you took away Italy, Russia, and China, you would still have their self-standing operations in other parts of the world. The Albanians do not operate on a global basis. Take away Albania and whatever is left in some other European countries would be relatively limited.

Alright Ill just take your word for this matter. Im going on only one report and what the dickhead in scarfaces TV said about cocaine lol when he said "how can you put a dent on a estimated 100 billion dollar a year industry"


I mean the Colombos are morons, disorganised, messy, half of them, or more than half I should say turn into rats when faces with a long sentences. The Rudajs amount to them without problem.


Wrong again. But, for the sake of argument, let's compare the two.

The Colombo family has existed under one name or another for the better part of a century. While it has always been one of the smaller families in New York, and has had periods of internal strife over the years, it remains a multimillion dollar operation made up of about a dozen crews with around 100 made members and 300-500 associates. It's main base is New York - in which it is active in all five buroughs as well as Long Island - but it also operates in New Jersey, Florida, Nevada, and California. In it's entire history, the Colombo family has had 7 members flip.

As it always has, from the early part of the 20th century to today, the Colombo family controls multimillion gambling, loansharking, extortion, and drug trafficking operations. During Prohibition in the 1920's and early 1930's, the Colombos and the other New York families controlled the lion's share of the bootlegging rackets, muscling out rival Irish and Jewish mobs. Over the decades, the Colombos have made millions from the sex trade - prostitution, pornography distribution, peep shows, massage parlors, etc. From the 1950's to the 1990's, the Colombos and three other New York families controlled the garbage hauling industry in New York City, adding an extra $500 million to the already $1 billion industry. 10-20% of that was kickbacked to the four families, or about $50-100 million a year. Through their control of the the Concrete Workers District Council in the 1970's and 1980's the Colombos were the key family in control of the concrete industry in New York City. They and three other families split a 2% kickback on any construction project where the concrete was worth between $2 million and $15 million dollars. If it was below $2 million, companies had to make a $50,000 payoff to the Colombos to get the contract. From the late 1970's to the early 1990's the Colombos, as well as three other New York families, controlled the windows installation business in New York City, with $142 million in contracts and payoffs being divided up among them. In the 1980's and 1990's the Colombos and three other families were involved in multimillion dollar gas tax scams with Russian and Eastern European gangsters. At it's peak, the Colombo's share of the racket was bringing in at least $15 million a month for the family. In the late 1990's and early 2000's the Colombos were involved in pump and dump stock scams with the other families, just one of which netted the family $20 million. Just this decade the Colombo family has been involved in various multimillion dollar labor racketeering operations among at least a half dozen unions in the construction industry. The family owns bars and restaurants in New York, nightclubs in Florida, brothels in Nevada, and has ties to the entertainment industry in California.

But let me break it down for you even more. Take John Staluppi and John Rosatti, two soldiers in the Colombo family (pictured in a FBI surveillance photo below). Together they own 22 auto dealerships stretching from New York to Florida to Nevada. In 2005 their dealerships had a combined revenue of $1.8 billion. Staluppi also owns a multimillon dollar yacht company called Millenium Yachts that sells megayachts to customers that are especially wealthy (one of their yachts pictured below). Once again, these are just two soldiers in the family.

Image Image

Now take the Rudaj organization. It existed for about a decade, from the mid-1990's to the mid-2000's. At it's peak, the gang had a few dozen members and associates. It operated in parts of the Bronx, Westchester, and Queens. It controlled a few gambling clubs, as well as a network of about 50 video poker machines according to the FBI. It later branched out into loansharking and a few other street-level operations. When the top leaders were indicted and ultimately convicted, the government found that the group had amassed some legitimate property worth about $5 million. Like I've said before, the Rudaj gang was comparable to a single LCN crew.

And face it westside if the Rudaj were as low rent as you keep saying, then the Gambino acting boss would not have met with them at all. The gambinos have like 200 members dont they? Why didnt they just put a stop to the Rudajs easily then?


I believe I have answered this question at least two or three times already, but I'll do so again. The post-Gotti Gambinos were operating in a fractured state during this time. Normally, a boss (or even an acting boss) wouldn't have met with the Rudaj gang on the street. The Lucchese family didn't bother meeting with them. But there are exceptions from time to time, and this was one of them. Another one was when Gambino boss Paul Castellano and Genovese acting boss Frank Tieri met personally with leaders of the Westies gang in the late 1970's.
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Postby thewestside » April 1st, 2008, 10:41 pm

Johnny Red wrote:Alright Ill just take your word for this matter. Im going on only one report and what the dickhead in scarfaces TV said about cocaine lol when he said "how can you put a dent on a estimated 100 billion dollar a year industry"


I forgot to answer this in my above post. According to most estimates, including by the DEA and United Nations, the U.S. cocaine market is worth about $35 billion a year.
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