Thug life in France

[punamusta]

Glasgowis known as Europes streetgang capitol.

Glasgow??

[EuroTrash]

Yeah they have been the murder capital of Europe a couple of times.And the Glasgow underworld scene is like every underworld pretty violent.Did come across a article about streetgangs in Paris which consisted mostly off Sri Lankin youth they chopped somebody's head in half.Its mostly fist/knife/machete/axe fights.but yeah the Scottish are pretty violent,there youth.

[EuroTrash]

And u have to take in account that Paris as a metropool has a population of 11 million people.For example the whole population of Belgium is 12 million.

[punamusta]

Yeah they have been the murder capital of Europe a couple of times.And the Glasgow underworld scene is like every underworld pretty violent.Did come across a article about streetgangs in Paris which consisted mostly off Sri Lankin youth they chopped somebody's head in half.Its mostly fist/knife/machete/axe fights.but yeah the Scottish are pretty violent,there youth.

I think Glasgow has once been a murder capital of Western Europe, not whole Europe. And in capital city category, as even here in Finland we have every year several cities with higher murder rate than Glasgow's (last year there were 5-6 cities with murder rate between 5-7 per 100 000, as Glasgow had 2,74). Those cities just aren't Helsinki, our capital city, as there are many cities with way worse poverty than in Helsinki. Helsinki only has some poor areas, as some cities in Eastern Finland are poor all over. There's even whole provinces with higher murder rate than Glasgow's, even though we do not have real streetgangs here.

And our close neighbours, Tallinn in Estonia and St. Petersburg in Russia, has homicide rates way higher than we have. And both cities are in Europe, Tallinn even being a capital city of Estonia. Also Vilnius, capital city of Lithuania, has way higher murder rates.

I would have thought that cities like Manchester and London have deeper streetgang-scene than Glasgow. Maybe Paris, too.

[Sentenza]

Heres a doc on paris from during the riots




Heres one on glasgow.

I have a real hard time understanding the scottish people from glasgow

[cliffard]

youd be surprised at glasgow...no doubt its calmed down a bit the whole uk has over the last 10 years...we had a lad from glasgow posting on here jinky...in his neighbourhood the average age for men to die at is 52...worse than fuckin iraq...i dunno whether thats still the case but it definitely was not so long ago...

there are more gangs in glasgow per head than london or manny...glaswegians are obsessed with bladed weapons from primary school onwards, i blame braveheart, most gangsters in the rest of the uk will shoot people that piss them off, scottish heads will go out and stab people they dont like...theyre a very 'hands on' culture lol...

i respect it in a way, obviously guns make things easier but youve either got to be enraged or a nutcase to actually go and plunge a blade into flesh, feeling the resistance and the blood coming out and the person squawking and fighting back...pulling a trigger is just operating a machine...

[dinky]

Glasgow has long been the most violent city in the UK with the oldest gang culture possibly in the world. Some gangs originated in the 1800s.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/t ... -1-2906825
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... ays-963854

http://www.smh.com.au/world/fear-and-lo ... 1fwxq.html

[punamusta]

youd be surprised at glasgow...no doubt its calmed down a bit the whole uk has over the last 10 years...we had a lad from glasgow posting on here jinky...in his neighbourhood the average age for men to die at is 52...worse than fuckin iraq...i dunno whether thats still the case but it definitely was not so long ago...

there are more gangs in glasgow per head than london or manny...glaswegians are obsessed with bladed weapons from primary school onwards, i blame braveheart, most gangsters in the rest of the uk will shoot people that piss them off, scottish heads will go out and stab people they dont like...theyre a very 'hands on' culture lol...

i respect it in a way, obviously guns make things easier but youve either got to be enraged or a nutcase to actually go and plunge a blade into flesh, feeling the resistance and the blood coming out and the person squawking and fighting back...pulling a trigger is just operating a machine...

Yea, I believe you. And I agree you about the knife thing. I guess I should see Glasgow by myself to really understand it - I really don't know that much about UK. We also have a strong knife culture over here going back hundreds and hundreds of years, even though our real streetgangs died of in the late 60's and nowadays more and more people are simply gunned down instead of stabbing. One of those articles Dinky posted, says: "On the country's blade obsession, he added: "They think nothing of taking a stab wound or inflicting it and they sew themselves up." Made me smile a bit, as once I was cut with a knife and my friend sewed me up under the oven's light while I was drinking vodka to ease up the pain. Toke a while to figure out how to do it properly, hahah. But yea, that's just a memory that came into my mind while reading that. Lot of times it's easier to do it by yourself than wait hours and hours in first-aid station and then be told that "sorry, we have no time for you." If they even bother to tell you that.

So what are the main gangs in Glasgow? You have your own or imported ones?

[punamusta]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/fear-and-lo ... 1fwxq.html

Damn, couple of very nice photos on that site.

Take care of our Teemu Pukki, who just moved from Schalke to your Celtic - we need him to make goals for us

[Sentenza]

.in his neighbourhood the average age for men to die at is 52...

I would bet my ass, that heavy drinking plays a role in this too....?

[dinky]

Glasgow streetgangs have always been local youths, same with organised crime, predmominantly home grown. There are hundreds of articles on Glasgow gangs and violence on the internet dating back decades. One of those i posted is from an Australian newspaper which shows how far the city's reputation has travelled. (Oh and punamusta i'm a Celtic fan and your bhoy Pukki looks a good player so far )

[dinky]

A Canadian news report on Glasgow gangs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK2PryGzW5s

[EuroTrash]

@punamusta
The list u can find on the net and it is from the whole off Europe not just Western Europe.And statistics is another prove to what somebody's says is right.Everybody always wannabe Tupac and thats fine all that thuglife stuff.But back it up then.Statistics,news articles,news clips....

[karim]

I won't lie, and to me Paris (and whole France) has no street gangs... To me it would be more crews or clicks... Maybe some of them look like some gangs, but if so they don't last very long. It's my opinion. I was just pissed off by some american dudes who think they can come down here and just by saying they're from the US people would bow down ! In some projects (citées) they will take your dirty socks, even if it stink ! And to say you're from US in France is the worse thing to do to be honest...
I would prefer to speak of organised crime than real street gangs like I seen in London...
I knew some guy from Deptford (SE8 for those who know London), and they told me that some guys who had came up in the area from Glasgow are not to mess with... I knew for a while that Glasgow is a very dangerous city...
And to add a few, I've never felt no where in France the kind of feeling I felt in Manchester, even in south London... In some part of Manchester you can feel that everything can happen... You all know what it's feel like to be a stranger in the wrong place with everybody around staring at you like "what the fuck are you doing here ? Fuck off !" I've experienced it first hand and I've been in both sides (the stranger and the one who see a stranger in his daily environement).
PS: Excuse my bad English...

[Sentenza]

I dont think that any place in europe has a deep gang culture like the US, except for Glasgow and London. London has had streetgangs 500 years ago. It has deep history in this aspect. It has had gangs when america was just being discovered.
Check out this page, it has a lot of gangs on its list:

http://londonstreetgangs.blogspot.de/p/ ... lists.html

You might have a gang here and there in most big cities in europe, but its not a deeply entrenched culture.
Shit, even my city has had gangs in the past. Heres a short english clip on one of them:



The black guy rapping at 0:35 is in Syria right now fighting in a terrorist group against the syrian government.

Karim is right, its more about organized crime in europe etc.

[punamusta]

@punamusta
The list u can find on the net and it is from the whole off Europe not just Western Europe.And statistics is another prove to what somebody's says is right.Everybody always wannabe Tupac and thats fine all that thuglife stuff.But back it up then.Statistics,news articles,news clips....

I really have hard time to believe that Glasgow, or any Western European capital, would have higher murder rates than for example those Eastern cities that I listed. The highest murder rates for Glasgow, that I could find gave Glasgow a rate of 3-4 murders per 100 000.

Here's some rates for European capital cities:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... ody%20link

And here's some from another "Western" European country (in reality we're not in West, nor in East, we're always in between of those two worlds):
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Homici ... 5233470364

And here's one article in Finnish (use google translator) saying that city of Imatra has an average rate of 5,72 per 100 000 even under a 7 year period. Top years would be even higher than that long time average. Helsinki 2,55. I couldn't find the newest figures from the last year, but I think this is enough to prove my point:
http://www.savonsanomat.fi/uutiset/koti ... ia/1125869

And here's one more in Finnish:
http://www.uusisuomi.fi/kotimaa/81457-t ... e-numero-1

^ That article says that in province of Kainuu (in Eastern Finland) there were 0,082 murders per 1000, which means 8,2 per 100 000.

I hope you didn't use this weird article as your source to claim Glasgow as murder capital of WHOLE Europe:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2012 ... of-europe/


And with all that I'm trying to say only that I doubt Glasgow for being a murder capital of Europe, unless we speak only about Western Europe and only about capital cities. That was my only point from the beginning.

[punamusta]

. (Oh and punamusta i'm a Celtic fan and your bhoy Pukki looks a good player so far )

I hope he will start to make goals again soon. He lives from the goals, and if he doesn't make them, he can suddenly start to look like a terrible player. It's all in his mind, I think. I watched the game against Ajax, and he run well, made some good decisions, but failed to make a goal from his opportunity in the first half. But then again, he's a new guy on your team, and it will take a while to adjust to play in Celtic.

By the way, I really like the Green Brigade and what they are doing! One of the bests in Europe.

[punamusta]

I dont think that any place in europe has a deep gang culture like the US, except for Glasgow and London.
Karim is right, its more about organized crime in europe etc.

I think you're right. During this conversation, I started to think that what European countries even really have streetgangs. It really seems that basically only UK have those. Of course there's some others in some other countries (maybe Netherlands, France, bigger German cities maybe?), too, but seems like only UK has real tradition in streetgangs.

[punamusta]

A Canadian news report on Glasgow gangs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK2PryGzW5s

Interesting. Thanks!

[Sentenza]

This is the complete documentary about turkish gangs in germany

[EuroTrash]

Thats a nice doc Sentenza.Yeah think u are right about gangbangin.The whole concept and how it was born just doesn't work in Europe.Thats why i think motorcycle gangs are catching on.Everybody can identify to it.And u can make a carreer of off it.Gangbangin goes only one way and thats total destruction.While motorcycle gangs live as kings.Sentenza u heard about the Hannover chapter what they were doing in Mallorca?Laundering 500 million euro's!!!!Gotentag They capture 300 million euro.Think some people ate pretty pissed off.Lets see how this works out.

[karim]

I would say that It is much more about a feeling than about official crime rates and statistics...
For example, I don't think that any real US gangbanger would really pay attention to a stanger who seems to only mind his own business... I mean that this stranger is not a menace to him... He wont' even see him !
Although being in a Manchester deprived area makes you feel that everything can happen very fast, and just light on a cigarette can lead you to troubles...

PS: I d'on't know if you get me right, if not, let me know...

[punamusta]

I would say that It is much more about a feeling than about official crime rates and statistics...

Indeed. Especially as for example violent crime rate statistics are counted in different way in different countries. In some countries domestic violence is counted in, while in some countries they don't count it. In some countries police make a report on every beating they witness in the streets, while in some countries if the ones that fought do not have any demands, the police will not report anything. One of my points earlier was to underline the fact that statistics are just statistics.

[EuroTrash]

A murder is a murder.Aint no sweeping under the rugg.Fist fights are a tottally different story.

[punamusta]

A murder is a murder.Aint no sweeping under the rugg.Fist fights are a tottally different story.

True. But people commit murders for different reasons. It can be like here where people get drunk and stab to death some of their own friend or "bar friend", because they stole his last sip of vodka. Or like in some other countries, it's streetgang related that usually means that in those countries there are more problems in the streets and the murder victim can easily be outsider, a normal people. And streets feel more dangerous because of that. Here it's rare to get killed in the streets, even though it's really easy to get yourself beaten up in the streets, because people are so drunk and like to fight.

I already showed some statistics about murder rates here in Finland, that are really high compared to any Western European nation. But do people really see Finland as a dangerous place for regular people? I doubt. And that's what I ment with statistics being just statistics. We don't have any streetgangs here and our organized crime groups have been in peace together since the big war at 90's. Only few shootings per year because of organized crime. So there's really different type of murders in different countries.

[EuroTrash]

Ok now how does your story relates to France/Paris?And maybe Finland is that way but Great Britain (Ireland,Scotland,England) and the rest it's straight gangster shitt.Off course u have ur crimes of passion and all the other stuff.The big city's its all about the gun play.And its getting intenser on the European scene.

[punamusta]

Ok now how does your story relates to France/Paris?And maybe Finland is that way but Great Britain (Ireland,Scotland,England) and the rest it's straight gangster shitt.Off course u have ur crimes of passion and all the other stuff.The big city's its all about the gun play.And its getting intenser on the European scene.

You claimed that Glasgow is the murder capital of whole Europe. I disagreed and showed some statistic to back it up. There's many cities in Europe with higher murder rate than Glasgow's. And Glasgow has nothing to do with France either, yet you started to talk about it. Don't know much about England (other that they have a very low murder rate), but I'm pretty sure that in Scotland the violent crime and murders has a lot to do with the alcohol, too. And none of the European nations is "straight gangster shit". It's always other things, too, that get people killed.

But this is getting kinda boring. I don't know you, or what you've ever been up to, if you even have. Maybe for you the statistics are the only way to say something about something.

I also said that I agree with Karim saying that it's more about the feeling in certain places than stricly statistics.

[punamusta]

its getting intenser on the European scene.

With this one I agree with you.

[EuroTrash]

it was not my intenges to offent u or attack u Punamunsta.Second some violent streetgangs have migrated from the Carribean to Europe and setting up shop.Bringing the shoot first talk later mentality to the mainland.

[punamusta]

it was not my intenges to offent u or attack u Punamunsta.

Yes, my bad. I'm sometimes too short-tempered and don't remember that in internet it's really easy to misunderstand what others are trying to say. And especially what I try to say, as I tend to go off-topic so easily and start yapping about nonsense. I should maybe cut down the weed a little to make my points more clear

[Sentenza]

We had this clip already a while ago,but it fits right in here.

93 is a suburb of paris.

[EuroTrash]

it was not my intenges to offent u or attack u Punamunsta.

Yes, my bad. I'm sometimes too short-tempered and don't remember that in internet it's really easy to misunderstand what others are trying to say. And especially what I try to say, as I tend to go off-topic so easily and start yapping about nonsense. I should maybe cut down the weed a little to make my points more clear

Its just internet i don't take it that serieous.Smoke,drink whatever.Its all fun to me.Real life has enough problems.Everybody goes off topic so now and then and so what.Doesn't hurt me or anybody else.Its just a coneversation.