THE COSA NOSTRA TODAY

[mayugastank]

I recently read a book on an FBI agent who infiltrate the mob (GAMBINOS) Title : The MAking of Jack Falcone.

It was a sad face to the present day COSA NOSTRA, they actually seemed Pathetic, kinda like the most minor street gangs in LA. Many of the new made members were described as junkies, has beens, and most were said to not have even committed a murder for the LCN. The man the book centered around Greg Depalma, was a 2-bit hoodlum. He dealed in stolen water and pirated DVDS, his income was meager about 2000 bucks a month. This man got out of the Feds and was put in a high position because of the simple lack of personnel the mafia had. THE WESTSIDE * previous estimates on membership put the Gambinos at 200+ men, I just dont understand how so many guys could be MADE* and have such a disgraceful and petty LCN in New York? There were a few instances of were things looked organized (offshore gambling, medicare fraud) but most the stuff the new members were involved in was streetgang like, home invasions of drug connections, selling drugs and doing as much as they sold. The book quotes Greg Depalma and most other old school mafiosi as voicing their loud displeasure at the new membership. Can anyone shed some light on the new members? and is it true that they dress like NYC blacks**quote acting capo ROBERT VACCARO?.........the book mentioned the lack of italian people in NYC in general for teh poor state of the Mafia.

[mayugastank]

I recently read a book on an FBI agent who infiltrate the mob (GAMBINOS) Title : The MAking of Jack Falcone.

It was a sad face to the present day COSA NOSTRA, they actually seemed Pathetic, kinda like the most minor street gangs in LA. Many of the new made members were described as junkies, has beens, and most were said to not have even committed a murder for the LCN. The man the book centered around Greg Depalma, was a 2-bit hoodlum. He dealed in stolen water and pirated DVDS, his income was meager about 2000 bucks a month. This man got out of the Feds and was put in a high position because of the simple lack of personnel the mafia had. THE WESTSIDE * previous estimates on membership put the Gambinos at 200+ men, I just dont understand how so many guys could be MADE* and have such a disgraceful and petty LCN in New York? There were a few instances of were things looked organized (offshore gambling, medicare fraud) but most the stuff the new members were involved in was streetgang like, home invasions of drug connections, selling drugs and doing as much as they sold. The book quotes Greg Depalma and most other old school mafiosi as voicing their loud displeasure at the new membership. Can anyone shed some light on the new members? and is it true that they dress like NYC blacks**quote acting capo ROBERT VACCARO?.........the book mentioned the lack of italian people in NYC in general for teh poor state of the Mafia.

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Italian mobsters in widespread decline
Posted 10/25/2007 5:14 PM | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Save | Print |


Enlarge AP

This undated surveillance file photo, released by the U.S. Attorneys Office in New York, shows mob veteran Vincent Basciano, former head of the Bonanno crime family. Within a year, the ex-beauty shop owner with the hair-trigger temper was behind bars - betrayed by his predecessor. Today, Mafia families in former strongholds like Cleveland, Los Angeles and Tampa are gone. La Cosa Nostra -- our thing, as its initiates called the mob -- is in serious decline everywhere but New York City. (AP Photo/U.S. Attorneys Office, File)




By Larry Mcshane, Associated Press Writer
NEW YORK — In early 2004, mob veteran Vincent Basciano took over as head of the Bonanno crime family. The reign of the preening, pompadoured Mafioso known as Vinny Gorgeous lasted only slightly longer than a coloring dye job from his Bronx hair salon.
Within a year, the ex-beauty shop owner with the hair-trigger temper was behind bars -- betrayed by his predecessor, a stand-up guy now sitting down with the FBI.

It was a huge blow to Basciano and the once-mighty Bonannos, and similar scenarios are playing out from coast to coast. The Mafia, memorably described as "bigger than U.S. Steel" by mob financier Meyer Lansky, is more of an illicit mom-and-pop operation in the new millennium.

The mob's frailties were evident in recent months in Chicago, where three senior-citizen mobsters were locked up for murders committed a generation ago; in Florida, where a 97-year-old Mafioso with a rap sheet dating to the days of Lucky Luciano was imprisoned for racketeering; and in New York, where 80-something boss Matty "The Horse" Ianniello pleaded to charges linked to the garbage industry and union corruption.

Things are so bad that mob scion John A. "Junior" Gotti chose to quit the mob while serving five years in prison rather than return to his spot atop the Gambino family.

At the mob's peak in the late 1950s, more than two dozen families operated nationwide. Disputes were settled by the Commission, a sort of gangland Supreme Court. Corporate change came in a spray of gunfire. This was the mob of "The Godfather" celebrated in pop culture.

Today, Mafia families in former strongholds like Cleveland, Los Angeles and Tampa are gone. La Cosa Nostra -- our thing, as its initiates called the mob -- is in serious decline everywhere but New York City. And even there, things aren't so great: Two of New York's five crime families are run in absentia by bosses behind bars.

Mob executions are also a blast from the past. The last boss whacked was the Gambinos' "Big Paul" Castellano in 1985. New York's last mob shooting war occurred in 1991. And in Chicago, home to the 1929 St. Valentine's Day massacre, the last hit linked to the "Outfit" went down in the mid-1990s.

The Mafia's ruling Commission has not met in years. Membership in key cities is dwindling, while the number of mob turncoats is soaring.

"You arrest 10 people," says one New York FBI agent, "and you have eight of them almost immediately knocking on your door: 'OK, I wanna cut a deal.'"

The oath of omerta -- silence -- has become a joke. Ditto for the old world "Family" values -- honor, loyalty, integrity -- that served as cornerstones for an organization brought to America by Italian immigrants during the era of Prohibition.

"It's been several generations since they left Sicily," says Dave Shafer, head of the FBI organized crime division in New York. "It's all about money."

Which doesn't mean the Mafia is dead. But organized crime experts say the Italian mob is seriously wounded: shot in the foot by its own loudmouth members, bloodied by scores of convictions, and crippled by a loss of veteran leaders and a dearth of capable replacements.

___

The Bonannos, along with New York's four other borgatas (or families), emerged from a bloody mob war that ended in 1931. The Mafia then became one of the nation's biggest growth industries, extending its reach into legitimate businesses like concrete and garbage carting and illegal pursuits like gambling and loan-sharking. The mob always operated in the black.

Things began to change in the mid-1980s, when the Mafia was caught in a crossfire of RICO, rats and recorded conversations. The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations act handed mob prosecutors an unprecedented tool, making even minor crimes eligible for stiff prison terms.

The 20-year sentences gave authorities new leverage, and mobsters who once served four-year terms without flinching were soon helping prosecutors.

"A good RICO is virtually impossible to defend," insists Notre Dame law professor G. Robert Blakey, who drafted the law while serving as counsel to Sen. John McClellan in 1970. The results proved him right.

The first major RICO indictment came in 1985, with the heads of three New York families and five other top level Mafiosi eventually convicted. It took nearly two decades, but the heads of all five New York families were jailed simultaneously in 2003.

Authorities around the country were soon using Blakey's statute and informants against Italian organized crime in their cities.

_ In Philadelphia, where the mob was so widespread that Bruce Springsteen immortalized the 1981 killing of Philip "Chicken Man" Testa in his song "Atlantic City," one mob expert estimates the Mafia presence is down to about a dozen hardcore "made" men. Their number was once about 80.

_ The New England mob claims barely two dozen remaining made members -- about half the number involved 25 years ago. The Boston underboss awaits trial.

_ In Chicago, home of Al Capone, the head of the local FBI office believes fewer than 30 made men remain. That figure stood at more than 100 in 1990. The city's biggest mob trial in decades ended recently with the convictions of three old-timers for murders from the 1970s and '80s.

_ In Los Angeles, there's still a Mafia problem -- "La Eme," the Mexican Mafia. An aging leadership in the Italian mob, along with successful prosecutions, left most of the local "gangsters" hanging out on movie sets.

_ The Florida family dominated by Santos Trafficante, the powerful boss linked to assassination plots targeting President John F. Kennedy and Cuban leader Fidel Castro, is gone. The beachfront Mafia of the 21st century is mostly transplanted New Yorkers, and money generated by the local rackets isn't kicked up the chain of command as in the past.

"You have guys running around doing their own thing," says Joe Cicini, supervisor of the FBI's South Florida mob investigations. "They don't have the work ethic or the discipline that the older generation had."

The decline of "Family values" is nothing new. Back in January 1990, a government bug caught no less an expert than Gambino boss John Gotti wondering if the next generation of mobsters was equal to their forebears.

"Where are we gonna find them, these kind of guys?" Gotti asked. "I'm not being a pessimist. It's getting tougher, not easier!"

During the same conversation, Gotti questioned the resumes of a half-dozen candidates for made man: "I want guys that done more than killing."

Even harder, it would turn out, was finding guys who could keep their mouths shut.

___

"Mob informant" was once an oxymoron, but today the number of rats is enormous -- and growing with each indictment. And the mob's storied ability to exact retribution on informants is virtually nonexistent.

"There is no more secret society," says Matthew Heron, the FBI's Organized Crime Section Chief in Washington.

"In the past, you'd start out with the lowest level and try to work your way up," Heron continues. Now "it's like playing leapfrog. You go right over everybody else to the promised land."

Basciano, 48, the one-time owner of the "Hello Gorgeous" beauty parlor, faces an upcoming trial for plotting to kill a federal prosecutor. The case was brought after his old boss, "Big Joey" Massino, wore a wire into a jailhouse meeting where the alleged hit was discussed.

By the time Massino went public with his plea deal in June 2005, another 50 Bonanno associates had been convicted in three years. The number of colleagues who testified against them, going right up to Massino, was in double digits. Basciano now faces the rest of his life in prison.

The Bonanno family is now led by the inexperienced "Sal The Ironworker" Montagna, just 35 years old, according to the FBI. Montagna shares one trait with his family's founder: He, too, is a Sicilian immigrant.

The mob of the 21st century still makes money the old-fashioned way: gambling, loan-sharking, shakedowns. Three Genovese family associates were busted this month for extorting or robbing businessmen in New York and New Jersey, making off with $1 million.

There are other, more modern scams: The Gambino family collected $230 million in fraudulent credit card fees linked to pornographic Web sites. Another crooked plan grossed more than $420 million when calls made to "free" phone services triggered unauthorized monthly fees on victims' phone bills.

After getting busted, mobsters are quick to offer advice to the FBI about allocating the agency's investigative resources.

"I can't tell you how many times we've gone to arrest people, and the first thing a wiseguy says is, 'You should be going after the terrorists," said Seamus McElearney, head of the FBI's Colombo crime family squad in New York. "They say it all the time: 'You should be doing that.'

"And leaving them alone."

___

Associated Press writers Curt Anderson in Miami, Denise Lavoie in Boston, Jeremiah Marquez in Los Angeles, Dave Porter in Newark and Maryclaire Dale in Philadelphia contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast

[Faciulina]

New York's last mob shooting war occurred in 1991

loooooool this only phrase shows like full of shit this article is

The Mafia's ruling Commission has not met in years

other BS

In Chicago, home of Al Capone, the head of the local FBI office believes fewer than 30 made men remain

chicago has over 70 made members

you could find this kind of BS even in the 70s, but the reality is that the mafia is still alive and strong

[thewestside]

I recently read a book on an FBI agent who infiltrate the mob (GAMBINOS) Title : The MAking of Jack Falcone.

It was a sad face to the present day COSA NOSTRA, they actually seemed Pathetic, kinda like the most minor street gangs in LA. Many of the new made members were described as junkies, has beens, and most were said to not have even committed a murder for the LCN. The man the book centered around Greg Depalma, was a 2-bit hoodlum. He dealed in stolen water and pirated DVDS, his income was meager about 2000 bucks a month. This man got out of the Feds and was put in a high position because of the simple lack of personnel the mafia had. THE WESTSIDE * previous estimates on membership put the Gambinos at 200+ men, I just dont understand how so many guys could be MADE* and have such a disgraceful and petty LCN in New York? There were a few instances of were things looked organized (offshore gambling, medicare fraud) but most the stuff the new members were involved in was streetgang like, home invasions of drug connections, selling drugs and doing as much as they sold. The book quotes Greg Depalma and most other old school mafiosi as voicing their loud displeasure at the new membership. Can anyone shed some light on the new members? and is it true that they dress like NYC blacks**quote acting capo ROBERT VACCARO?.........the book mentioned the lack of italian people in NYC in general for teh poor state of the Mafia.

Garcia's undercover work was mainly with one crew - DePalma's. DePalma was always known, even within mob circles, as basically an incompetent. But he did reach acting-captain status and he was making more than $2,000 a month by then. But he did have a big mouth and was ultimately responsible for getting both Squitieri and Megale indicted, as well as dozens of other Gambino members and associates.

The mob basically mirrors society in general. On one end you have the rich guys who are millionaires. The higher your rank the more likely you are to be well off but not always. On the other end you have the "brokesters," as they are called. Guys who spend more than they make, are often in debt to the sharks, and just squeek by day to day. Most mob members fall somewhere in the middle and are more or less middle class. Some crews and members still specialize in labor racketeering and have influence in legitimate industries like construction, the waterfront, trucking, etc. And some have taken advantage of new forms of crime, like stock fraud or telecommunications fraud. But most are involved in the standard "bread and butter" rackets of illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, drug trafficking, fencing stolen goods, etc. The more well-to-do mafiosi usually own legitimate businesses as well.

There has been a decline in terms of both quantity and quality as far as mob recruits go for the last few decades now. It's called general attrition. And it has effected some families more than others.

[thewestside]

I should also point out a few things about that article. While there are many more rats than in years past, they are still a relatively small minority in the overall picture. Far more guys, both members and associates, keep their mouths shut and go to prison than turn state's evidence. But it's the rats that get the attention. Even now, with the thousands of mob members over the years, less than 100 have actually flipped.

The article's numbers are also off. The Philadelphia family still has about 50 members or so. It's just that about half of them are either in prison or inactive. The New England family also has about 50 members or so. Same for the Chicago family and the New Jersey family. The Buffalo and Detroit families are smaller but still there. These, along with the five New York families, are the only viable families left.

That said, the mob is still a high investigative priority in New York. And that is because you are dealing with the five largest and most active families in one place as opposed to a single smaller family elsewhere. Elsewhere in the country it's a low priority. But even the five New York families are not the priority they were even 20 years ago. Part of this is due to them being weakened and part of it is due to the government allocating resources to other things like terrorism. The FBI squads that investigate each family are down in numbers. The Genovese and Gambino squads each have 12 agents. The Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno squads each have 10 agents.

[mayugastank]

I should also point out a few things about that article. While there are many more rats than in years past, they are still a relatively small minority in the overall picture. Far more guys, both members and associates, keep their mouths shut and go to prison than turn state's evidence. But it's the rats that get the attention. Even now, with the thousands of mob members over the years, less than 100 have actually flipped.

The article's numbers are also off. The Philadelphia family still has about 50 members or so. It's just that about half of them are either in prison or inactive. The New England family also has about 50 members or so. Same for the Chicago family and the New Jersey family. The Buffalo and Detroit families are smaller but still there. These, along with the five New York families, are the only viable families left.

That said, the mob is still a high investigative priority in New York. And that is because you are dealing with the five largest and most active families in one place as opposed to a single smaller family elsewhere. Elsewhere in the country it's a low priority. But even the five New York families are not the priority they were even 20 years ago. Part of this is due to them being weakened and part of it is due to the government allocating resources to other things like terrorism. The FBI squads that investigate each family are down in numbers. The Genovese and Gambino squads each have 12 agents. The Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno squads each have 10 agents.

Can you say anything about the last iniciation ceremony they had or where they get their members ? whats the average age of these guys and .......what do they do , who are they and were are they from...any and all details that you have

[thewestside]

Can you say anything about the last iniciation ceremony they had or where they get their members ? whats the average age of these guys and .......what do they do , who are they and were are they from...any and all details that you have

We in the public usually don't find out about induction ceremonies until long after the fact. Usually when somebody flips and then given information about it. Or if there is talk overheard on a bug or wiretap. For example, Genovese mobsters were overheard a few years ago talking about how former acting boss Danny Leo had helped officiate at making ceremonies. Over the last decade or so law enforcement has twice confiscated the lists of newly inducted members along with the dead members they replaced. In New York, technically the rule is families are only supposed to make new members to replace ones that have died plus an additional two at Christmas. New members come from the same place they always have. You have to be Italian, though not necessarily full Italian if you are well connected. You have to have proven yourself over time. First and foremost a good earner. The mob doesn't even care if a guy has ever seen a gun nowadays. Being able to make money is the most important. But guys who can do "heavy work" (i.e. kill) are still valued. Some families have tougher screening processes for new members than others. Having looked at the ages of members in the mob on charts, I'd say the average age of mob members is 50's and 60's. But there are younger guys in their 30's and 40's and older guys in their 70's and 80's.

[mayugastank]

I recently read a book on an FBI agent who infiltrate the mob (GAMBINOS) Title : The MAking of Jack Falcone.

It was a sad face to the present day COSA NOSTRA, they actually seemed Pathetic, kinda like the most minor street gangs in LA. Many of the new made members were described as junkies, has beens, and most were said to not have even committed a murder for the LCN. The man the book centered around Greg Depalma, was a 2-bit hoodlum. He dealed in stolen water and pirated DVDS, his income was meager about 2000 bucks a month. This man got out of the Feds and was put in a high position because of the simple lack of personnel the mafia had. THE WESTSIDE * previous estimates on membership put the Gambinos at 200+ men, I just dont understand how so many guys could be MADE* and have such a disgraceful and petty LCN in New York? There were a few instances of were things looked organized (offshore gambling, medicare fraud) but most the stuff the new members were involved in was streetgang like, home invasions of drug connections, selling drugs and doing as much as they sold. The book quotes Greg Depalma and most other old school mafiosi as voicing their loud displeasure at the new membership. Can anyone shed some light on the new members? and is it true that they dress like NYC blacks**quote acting capo ROBERT VACCARO?.........the book mentioned the lack of italian people in NYC in general for teh poor state of the Mafia.

Garcia's undercover work was mainly with one crew - DePalma's. DePalma was always known, even within mob circles, as basically an incompetent. But he did reach acting-captain status and he was making more than $2,000 a month by then. But he did have a big mouth and was ultimately responsible for getting both Squitieri and Megale indicted, as well as dozens of other Gambino members and associates.

The mob basically mirrors society in general. On one end you have the rich guys who are millionaires. The higher your rank the more likely you are to be well off but not always. On the other end you have the "brokesters," as they are called. Guys who spend more than they make, are often in debt to the sharks, and just squeek by day to day. Most mob members fall somewhere in the middle and are more or less middle class. Some crews and members still specialize in labor racketeering and have influence in legitimate industries like construction, the waterfront, trucking, etc. And some have taken advantage of new forms of crime, like stock fraud or telecommunications fraud. But most are involved in the standard "bread and butter" rackets of illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, drug trafficking, fencing stolen goods, etc. The more well-to-do mafiosi usually own legitimate businesses as well.

There has been a decline in terms of both quantity and quality as far as mob recruits go for the last few decades now. It's called general attrition. And it has effected some families more than others.

DEPALMA, was about to be voted acting underboss, till the raid. Another thing whats up with all the recruiting amongst italian immigrants? They cant find US italians with any type of heart, so it comes out the mOBS own mouth.In general what I got from teh book and several articles it that the mafia is weaker then most street gangs in LA,at one time,JOE PINEY ARMONE, was told not ot take a plea bargain admitting the existence of the mafia. He followed orders now its standard for soldiers to take deals were they admitt to the existence of teh COSA NOSTRA. John GOtti JR, in public admitted the existence of the MOB while saying he had given up that life. Their was a show on Aand E showing the MOB in Philidelphia, what a sorry ass bunch of card playing and hip hop clothes wearing mafia members.They had a guy who was supposed to be the leader that was about 27 years old with a do rag on his head sporting a YUKON on 20" +RIMS and a system. I read a story I dont rember where , some italian youngsters were getting GAMBINO tattoed on themselves. If they have 200+ members why are they so sorry? How did they fall so fast .....gimmes some names of new dudes. And break down what the families are up to now. if you can Id appreciate it

[mayugastank]

Can you say anything about the last iniciation ceremony they had or where they get their members ? whats the average age of these guys and .......what do they do , who are they and were are they from...any and all details that you have

We in the public usually don't find out about induction ceremonies until long after the fact. Usually when somebody flips and then given information about it. Or if there is talk overheard on a bug or wiretap. For example, Genovese mobsters were overheard a few years ago talking about how former acting boss Danny Leo had helped officiate at making ceremonies. Over the last decade or so law enforcement has twice confiscated the lists of newly inducted members along with the dead members they replaced. In New York, technically the rule is families are only supposed to make new members to replace ones that have died plus an additional two at Christmas. New members come from the same place they always have. You have to be Italian, though not necessarily full Italian if you are well connected. You have to have proven yourself over time. First and foremost a good earner. The mob doesn't even care if a guy has ever seen a gun nowadays. Being able to make money is the most important. But guys who can do "heavy work" (i.e. kill) are still valued. Some families have tougher screening processes for new members than others. Having looked at the ages of members in the mob on charts, I'd say the average age of mob members is 50's and 60's. But there are younger guys in their 30's and 40's and older guys in their 70's and 80's.

Do you have anything on mafia members in american prisons? like who they run with , approximately how many are in their and how do they conduct themselves, I read that Gotti was extorted on the sly by the AB after they had him beat up purposely and then they told him they would kill his attacker which they never really were going to do. Do they run with whites? I also read several MExican Mafia members had struck up really close Friendships with JOE PERSICO and JOHN GOTTI before he died. Its also been said that Italians in teh Joint are routinely taken advantage of do to their low numbers....

[Faciulina]

In general what I got from teh book and several articles it that the mafia is weaker then most street gangs in LA

loooooool the mafia can't even be compared to street gang mambers clowns, the mafia has a complexity longevity and power too huge, it's simply on other level, how much can these gangs last? 2 years? let's say 10 years? the italian mafia arrived in the states in 1880 and it's still alive and the strongest

I read that Gotti was extorted on the sly by the AB after they had him beat up purposely and then they told him they would kill his attacker which they never really were going to do

you read wrong gotti asked the ab to kill johnson in order to revenge him but the police brought him to another prison in order to avoid gotti's revenge

[Elimu]

In general what I got from teh book and several articles it that the mafia is weaker then most street gangs in LA

loooooool the mafia can't even be compared to street gang mambers clowns, the mafia has a complexity longevity and power too huge, it's simply on other level, how much can these gangs last? 2 years? let's say 10 years? the italian mafia arrived in the states in 1880 and it's still alive and the strongest
True La Cosa Nostra have lasted a long time but I thought they came in 1910? and some street gangs have last longer than 10 years like the Vice Lords they been around since 1958.

I read that Gotti was extorted on the sly by the AB after they had him beat up purposely and then they told him they would kill his attacker which they never really were going to do

you read wrong gotti asked the ab to kill johnson in order to revenge him but the police brought him to another prison in order to avoid gotti's revenge

[Faciulina]

True La Cosa Nostra have lasted a long time but I thought they came in 1910? and some street gangs have last longer than 10 years like the Vice Lords they been around since 1958.

the italian mafia arrived in the states in 1880 about in 1890 it killed the police chief of new orleans... naaah there is not any street gang around since 1958, at least there are single members alive but not the gang as a whole

[thewestside]

DEPALMA, was about to be voted acting underboss, till the raid.

No he wasn't. Some claims of Garcia's, including that one, you have to take with a grain of salt. DePalma wasn't even a full fledged captain. He didn't have the clout in the family to be part of the administration. The whole thing about him supposedly getting Garcia made was also nonsense. It was just DePalma feeding him a line.

Another thing whats up with all the recruiting amongst italian immigrants? They cant find US italians with any type of heart, so it comes out the mOBS own mouth.

Actually there isn't a lot of recruiting of guys from Italy. At least not compared to what many have predicted would happen over the years. The Italians in the families are still very much in the minority compared to the Italian-Americans.

In general what I got from teh book and several articles it that the mafia is weaker then most street gangs in LA,at one time,

If you are talking about the Mafia as a whole, that's certainly not true. But if you look at individual families, there are several that are really nothing more than sophisticated steet gangs themselves at this point.

JOE PINEY ARMONE, was told not ot take a plea bargain admitting the existence of the mafia. He followed orders now its standard for soldiers to take deals were they admitt to the existence of teh COSA NOSTRA.

Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing for the mob. You know who uses plea deals more than anyone? The Genovese family. The most disciplined and powerful of all. They are able to greatly cut down on their time served and be back out on the street much faster when they take plea deals. It was stubborn guys like Gotti who wouldn't allow his guys to do it, including Armone. And many of his guys ended up serving a lot more time than they had to. If Gotti's brother Gene had been allowed to take a deal back in the 1980's, he would be on the street right now. Instead he will be in prison for years to come.

John GOtti JR, in public admitted the existence of the MOB while saying he had given up that life. Their was a show on Aand E showing the MOB in Philidelphia, what a sorry ass bunch of card playing and hip hop clothes wearing mafia members.They had a guy who was supposed to be the leader that was about 27 years old with a do rag on his head sporting a YUKON on 20" +RIMS and a system.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information but there aren't any members of the Philadelphia family walking around in hip hop clothes. And they don't have a 27 year old leader with a do rag. The boss is 70 year old Joseph Ligambi. Even the former boss, Joseph Merlino, who was relatively young by mob standards is 47.

[thewestside]

Do you have anything on mafia members in american prisons? like who they run with , approximately how many are in their and how do they conduct themselves, I read that Gotti was extorted on the sly by the AB after they had him beat up purposely and then they told him they would kill his attacker which they never really were going to do. Do they run with whites? I also read several MExican Mafia members had struck up really close Friendships with JOE PERSICO and JOHN GOTTI before he died. Its also been said that Italians in teh Joint are routinely taken advantage of do to their low numbers....

There has been a lot of bull written about Gotti while he was in prison. The incident between him and Walter Johnson was a personal one. Gotti had called Johnson a "nigger" and Johnson attacked him the next day. The Aryan Brotherhood only came into the picture after the fact when Gotti had offered them money to kill Johnson. Long story short, the hit never went down because Johnson was parolled not long afterwards. He later killed a cop. Now think about it. If Gotti had been paying the AB for protection, where was their protection from him being assaulted by Johnson in the first place? Furthermore, if he had been paying all along, the AB would have been duty bound to retaliate without Gotti shelling out more money on top of that. They were never extorting Gotti. And on top of all that, the AB is traditionally against black inmates. In fact, they have a long standing alliance with La Eme against the Black Guerilla Army and Nuestra Familia. Who has ever heard of the AB using a black inmate to assault or kill someone?

Former Philadelphia boss Joey Merlino had a good relationship with the Mexican gangs while he was in prison in Texas. He was paying them for protection but it was a case of him hiring them, not them shaking him down. When you enter prison, inmates gravitate to their own groups pretty quickly. Italians are considered to be white. And there really isn't any problems overall from one group to another. Mob guys don't run the prisons like they used to back in the day but they aren't taken advantage of either. If so, where are all the examples? Especially with so many mob guys behind bars?

[thewestside]

If they have 200+ members why are they so sorry?

Getting an accuarte picture of the modern day mob is like putting a puzzle together. The more pieces you have in place, the better the idea of what the picture looks like. Garcia's book is only one piece. And judging from some of the other sources you have mentioned, I'd throw those out all together.

How did they fall so fast .....

The Mafia over all has been in a slow decline since the 1970's. So about 40 years now after hitting their peak in the 1950's and 1960's. It has happened much slower than many predicted but it is happening. There have been many factors. First and foremost is general attrition of the families in terms of both quantity and quality. Many have said there were 5,000 Mafia members at it's peak. Looking at the individual family numbers, I'd say it was actually closer to about half that - 2,500. Today there are a little over 1,000 remaining. Families, especially many of the smaller ones, have disappeared because they never had the manpower to replenish their ranks as Italians in the U.S. became more assimiliated in American society. And even for the ones remaining, it has been increasingly difficult to find competent guys who want that life. Then, of course is the factor of law enforcement. The Mafia was able to become as powerful as it did because it had about a half century to become entrenched before law enforcement really started addressing it in the 1980's. Everything from the RICO law to new surveillance technology to the Witness Protection Program have been factors. Another factor has been labor union reform and new industry regulations which have either weakened or removed altogether the mob's power over unions and legitimate industries. Then there has been it's loss of control in some illicit activities, most of all the drug trade, from which it has been marginalized in for the last 25 years now.

[thewestside]

And break down what the families are up to now. if you can Id appreciate it

Illegal Gambling

This continues to be the "bread and butter" of the mob, as it always has been. Bookmaking above all. One area where the mob has remained the dominant OC group is sports betting. They have taken advantage of new technology like the internet. Most of the big time internet gambling busts in recent years have been tied to the mob. For some time now the mob has been utilizing offshore wirerooms in places like Costa Rica, Panama, and the Dominican Republic in order to avoid law enforcement raids. The mob is also still involved in the numbers racket (illegal lottery) but it isn't as big as it once was since the legal lottery came about as well as most of the mob's gambling clientele are white and the numbers has always been more popular in the black and Hispanic areas. The mob is also very involved in video poker machines, which they distribute in bars, clubs, etc. They have traditionally been a big money maker and a single machine can take in hundreds, even thousands, of dollars a week in profit. And they are also involved in running high-stakes card games.

Loansharking

The long time companion racket to gambling. Wherever you will find a mob-run gambling operation, you were also find loansharking. Bets with a mob bookie are done on credit. If a gambler bets over his head and can't pay, a mob loansharking will loan him the money to pay the mob bookie, but then the gambler has a loan on which he owes a very high interest rate. Say he owes $50,000. A standard mob interest rate may be 2%, which is $1,000 a week. And that doesn't come off the principle. That's just for that week. The guy could pay $1,000 a week for the next hundred years and in a hundred years he would still owe the $50,000 loan. The mob also makes it's high interest loans to businessmen who can't get lines of credit from banks and other legitimate financial institutions.

Extortion

The mob has always remained involved in shaking down other businesses. This comes in many ways. It may be in the form of forcing a restaurant to use a the cost-inflated services of a mob-connected food wholesale company or linen service. Or it simply may be so the business doesn't suddenly suffer an unexpected fire. But it's also in the form of shaking down unaffiliated bookies, loansharks, drug dealers, burglary rings, etc. for a "street tax."

Drug Trafficking

The mob no longer has the dominant position in the drug trade it once did but most families remain involved to one degree or another, mostly at the middle to lower levels. The mob has been involved in the trafficking of virtually every known drug - heroin, cocaine, marijuana, meth, MDMA, steroids, prescription, etc.

Stolen Goods

The mob remains involved in activities like high-end burglary rings and fencing stolen goods. A new activity in more recent years have been home invasions. These are not typically committed by mob members themselves but by lower end associates, as well as other groups which are used as "muscle."

Labor Racketeering

Most of the remaining labor racketeering activity by the mob today is in the New York/New Jersey area. This comes in different forms.

1. Bid-Rigging: Only pre-selected companies are allowed to bid. A company is either owned by the mob or must kickback a percentage in order to be chosen for the job. Unapproved companies trying to bid will have problems with the mob-controlled union.

2. Sweetheart Deals: A mob-controlled union allows a company to use non-union labor or union labor for only part of the job. The company saves money and kickbacks some of it to the mob.

3. Extortion: A mob-controlled union extorts payments from a company in turn for labor peace, timely deliveries, no harrasment, etc.

4. No-Show Jobs: In turn for any of the above - being selected for a job, using non-union workers, labor peace, etc. - a company puts mob members on their payroll. The mobsters have a legitimate source of income for doing no work.

5. Embezzling: Mob guys in key union positions are able to divert union funds through ghost payrolls, use it as capital for loans or investments, force workers to kickback part of their pay to keep their jobs, etc.

Fraud

Many of the mob's "newer" forms of crime revolve have revolved around some type of fraud. Stock fraud, telecommunications fraud, mortgage fraud, etc. The mob has been very involved in the "pump and dump" stock scam for years now. This is where the mob takes control of certain brokerage houses and artificially "pumps" up a stock through cold calling (boiler rooms) and other means. Once the stock value is high enough, they shall their shares for a big profit and the value of the stock tanks, leaving other investors with worthless stock. Telecommunication fraud has involved a few different things. One has been selling pre-paid phone cards at a steep discount but which aren't legit but only work for a little while before they are turned off. Another has been overbilling people's credit cards when they have used them for 900-number calls to things like sex or astrology lines or for adult sites on the internet.

Legitimate Businesses

The mob remains involved in various businesses like bars, restaurants, nightclubs, strip clubs, construction companies, trucking companies, garbage companies, shipping, food wholesaling, vending machines, etc.

[mayugastank]

In general what I got from teh book and several articles it that the mafia is weaker then most street gangs in LA

loooooool the mafia can't even be compared to street gang mambers clowns, the mafia has a complexity longevity and power too huge, it's simply on other level, how much can these gangs last? 2 years? let's say 10 years? the italian mafia arrived in the states in 1880 and it's still alive and the strongest

I read that Gotti was extorted on the sly by the AB after they had him beat up purposely and then they told him they would kill his attacker which they never really were going to do

you read wrong gotti asked the ab to kill johnson in order to revenge him but the police brought him to another prison in order to avoid gotti's revenge

I have fully admiitted they were strong before, outside the US goverment no one was stronger in this country. Street gangs( hispanic ones) in LA are 100 years old in East LA. The white fence gang , 38th street , RED STEPS. Are all gangs that started in the early 1900s They are still big and strong on the same streets they started. The interview I read was done by members of the AB who had flipped, they had been extorting italian inmates in the prisons because they knew them 2 have alot of money

[Faciulina]

I have fully admiitted they were strong before, outside the US goverment no one was stronger in this country. Street gangs( hispanic ones) in LA are 100 years old in East LA. The white fence gang , 38th street , RED STEPS. Are all gangs that started in the early 1900s They are still big and strong on the same streets they started. The interview I read was done by members of the AB who had flipped, they had been extorting italian inmates in the prisons because they knew them 2 have alot of money

there is not any continuity between the gangs of 100 years ago and the today's gangs, no matter there are gangs in the same zones, they are different gangs and composed even by different etnich groups... ab never extorted mob guys it couldn't even in texas and place where the outside power of the mob is low, nobody with a little brain is so stupid to go against he mob, the mobsters simply used them as muscle to kill somebody or they used them as bodyguards in same case

[CheGuevara]

the book mentioned the lack of italian people in NYC in general for teh poor state of the Mafia.

last time i checked italians made up 14.4% of new york city and 6% of the united states i believe. this is a lack of numbers?

[Faciulina]

last time i checked italians made up 14.4% of new york city and 6% of the united states i believe. this is a lack of numbers?

yes in fact it's not a lack of numbers like i believed the book this guy wrote is full of shit... ok let's say you cut italians with north and center italy descent or sardinia and abruzzo descent who can't even be part of the mafia since there is not any mafia there, the southern italians are 12% in new york and 4% in the states, in some new york district like staten island they are 40%

[CheGuevara]

yes in fact it's not a lack of numbers like i believed the book this guy wrote is full of shit... ok let's say you cut italians with north and center italy descent or sardinia and abruzzo descent who can't even be part of the mafia since there is not any mafia there, the southern italians are 12% in new york and 4% in the states, in some new york district like staten island they are 40%

you really need to visit the united states sometimes, italians here are not the same mentally or physchologically as italians in the relatively poor regions of italy. they have adapted heavily for the most part, like all others, to american culture which preachs tolerance and an unclannish society. this is why the italian mafia, which somewhat maintains old world traditions expresses frustration with the new up and comers.

[Faciulina]

you really need to visit the united states sometimes, italians here are not the same mentally or physchologically as italians in the relatively poor regions of italy. they have adapted heavily for the most part, like all others, to american culture which preachs tolerance and an unclannish society. this is why the italian mafia, which somewhat maintains old world traditions expresses frustration with the new up and comers.

who grew up in certain ambients even in the states take a mafia mentality and young italo-americans who grew up around mafiosi or inside a mafia blood family or in a mafia zone they will take a certain mentality and there are whole tri-state areas where the italians are 40% that's because the mafia in the states is still so strong... outside local families according to fbi there are 3.000 italian born mobsters most of them sicilians

[CheGuevara]

yeah, go ahead and believe what you want.

[Faciulina]

yeah, go ahead and believe what you want.

i just believe the truth, i'm not saying southern italians in italy have the same mentality of the italo-americans but it's similar, of course the mafia in south italy is too rooted and powerful to be compared with american mafia... the italo-american cosa nostra is still so strong because it is a tradition not just a criminal gang like jewish, irish, mexicans or other etnich groups present in the past or current states, the mafia started in the 1890s in the states and it's still the strongest, it would be unthinkable for any other groups, even chineses who have strong and very old form of organized group like triads are nobody compared to italians and although there are millions of chineses in the states, today there are millions of chinese born living in the states and only very few italian born but italian mafia is far stronger than triads there

[youngspade]

The LCN is responsible for there own problem, what alot of people dont know that "EVERY" mafia that is presence in the united states HAD to answer to THE LCN....! All Of em, Triads, Yakuza, Russians and EVEN ALBANIANS. They all had to get clearance or DO some type of business with the Italians in-order to gain what they have today! Without the italians working with none of these criminal organizations, they wouldnt be a big as they were.........With, each of them PROVING, there capabilities to there Italian BROTHERS!

[CheGuevara]

how do you explain a comment like that? the albanians work with practically any group in it's field of operation. it's a relatively new group and of course will pick up on other groups' tactics but to say the albanian criminals owe the italians for their success is a gigantic stretch. i guess the taking over of the balkan route was owed to the italians as well as the takeover of practically every red light district in europe as well. yes, the albanians have worked with italians most because of cultural and historical ties, not to mention geographical ties, but albanians have also worked with chinese and russian criminal groups as well as many, many others.

[youngspade]

how do you explain a comment like that? the albanians work with practically any group in it's field of operation. it's a relatively new group and of course will pick up on other groups' tactics but to say the albanian criminals owe the italians for their success is a gigantic stretch. i guess the taking over of the balkan route was owed to the italians as well as the takeover of practically every red light district in europe as well. yes, the albanians have worked with italians most because of cultural and historical ties, not to mention geographical ties, but albanians have also worked with chinese and russian criminal groups as well as many, many others.

Im talking about the days when The Commission was in full stride and HAD there hands in EVERYTHING, NOBODY would of gotten "IN" the american criminal lifestyles without DOING some work/business with ITALIANS! Without them, NOBODY other than the IRISH organized CRIME. EVeryone else, took a ride on the italians backs and someone here can back me up!

[Elimu]

True La Cosa Nostra have lasted a long time but I thought they came in 1910? and some street gangs have last longer than 10 years like the Vice Lords they been around since 1958.

the italian mafia arrived in the states in 1880 about in 1890 it killed the police chief of new orleans... naaah there is not any street gang around since 1958, at least there are single members alive but not the gang as a whole

It's obvious that you not from the US or never been to Chicago itself. The Vice Lords are still here with an estimated membership of 20,000 and a few groups are involved in white collar crime like mortage fraud.

[Faciulina]

It's obvious that you not from the US or never been to Chicago itself. The Vice Lords are still here with an estimated membership of 20,000 and a few groups are involved in white collar crime like mortage fraud.

no i'm not from the us i'm italian, yes the vice lords were funded in 1958 but the today are just people who claim the same name but there is not any continuity between them the fact somebody claim they have 20.000 members is just laughable since they are not able even to control a few blocks, it's evident they are all separate gangs that often abuse of the original name it is not sure an unique gang

[thewestside]

The LCN is responsible for there own problem, what alot of people dont know that "EVERY" mafia that is presence in the united states HAD to answer to THE LCN....! All Of em, Triads, Yakuza, Russians and EVEN ALBANIANS. They all had to get clearance or DO some type of business with the Italians in-order to gain what they have today! Without the italians working with none of these criminal organizations, they wouldnt be a big as they were.........With, each of them PROVING, there capabilities to there Italian BROTHERS!

At it's peak in the 1950's and 1960's the Mafia was able to control the lion's share of OC activity in those areas of the country where it had a major presence. One reason for this was the fact that during that time there wasn't as much competition. The Irish and Jewish groups had largely become defunct by that point and the Hispanic groups that would come to power through the cocaine and marijuana trade in the 1970's and 1980's weren't around yet; to say nothing of other groups such as Russians and Albanians which came even later. And during that same time the black groups didn't have the numbers, street muscle, or political clout to compete with the Mafia and the Chinese were always content to operate within their own closed communities. This pretty much left the Italians as the sole arbitors of big time organized crime. They benefited from timing as much as anything.

[youngspade]

The LCN is responsible for there own problem, what alot of people dont know that "EVERY" mafia that is presence in the united states HAD to answer to THE LCN....! All Of em, Triads, Yakuza, Russians and EVEN ALBANIANS. They all had to get clearance or DO some type of business with the Italians in-order to gain what they have today! Without the italians working with none of these criminal organizations, they wouldnt be a big as they were.........With, each of them PROVING, there capabilities to there Italian BROTHERS!

At it's peak in the 1950's and 1960's the Mafia was able to control the lion's share of OC activity in those areas of the country where it had a major presence. One reason for this was the fact that during that time there wasn't as much competition. The Irish and Jewish groups had largely become defunct by that point and the Hispanic groups that would come to power through the cocaine and marijuana trade in the 1970's and 1980's weren't around yet; to say nothing of other groups such as Russians and Albanians which came even later. And during that same time the black groups didn't have the numbers, street muscle, or political clout to compete with the Mafia and the Chinese were always content to operate within their own closed communities. This pretty much left the Italians as the sole arbitors of big time organized crime. They benefited from timing as much as anything.

Fact!

[Elimu]

It's obvious that you not from the US or never been to Chicago itself. The Vice Lords are still here with an estimated membership of 20,000 and a few groups are involved in white collar crime like mortage fraud.

no i'm not from the us i'm italian, yes the vice lords were funded in 1958 but the today are just people who claim the same name but there is not any continuity between them the fact somebody claim they have 20.000 members is just laughable since they are not able even to control a few blocks, it's evident they are all separate gangs that often abuse of the original name it is not sure an unique gang

What do you mean not any continuity between them? The National Gang Research Center came up with estimate and they control 102 blocks, that doesn't equal to a few. There's around a dozen branches with independent names but overall their under the umbrella of Vice Lord Nation. They use to be funded by the government and during their peak years they were known as CVL Inc and owned many businesses in the neighborhoods but not anymore unfortunelately. They can be found in 28 other states and also Canada.